Training Injuries: Please Fix it

[phd_angel]

Training injuries is a frustrating -and unrealistic- feature. Every week I get some player getting seriously injured during training (for 3 to 5 months). Yes, I give off days collectively and individually, and the overall workload is already at MEDIUM.

(Some fan site has developed a mod fix for this, so it's not just me...)

Is the FM product team planning to tweak this feature for a more realistic result in any upcoming patch?

Thanks for considering this.

[Nikopol]

People don't want any frustrations in their game and often see realism as hindering fun. I've played this years game with a variety of teams throughout many seasons, and i'm very very happy that finally Si made fitness management something that one has to think about again. They give you all the knowledge you need to manage your squads fitness. Sometimes things look bad, just like in real life, but generally it still feels somewhat generous if you ask me.

[phd_angel]

2 minutes ago, Nikopol said:

People don't want any frustrations in their game and often see realism as hindering fun. I've played this years game with a variety of teams throughout many seasons, and i'm very very happy that finally Si made fitness management something that one has to think about again. They give you all the knowledge you need to manage your squads fitness. Sometimes things look bad, just like in real life, but generally it still feels somewhat generous if you ask me.

Realistic frustration is OK. Unrealistic frustration is not.

 

[HUNT3R]

Tweak it yourself. FM has fewer injuries than IRL and FM18, if you compare days lost due to injury, is lower than FM17 in that regard.

There's a section in the FAQ about injuries that may help. Additionally, visit the Medical Centre for info and advice too.

[phd_angel]

3 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Tweak it yourself. FM has fewer injuries than IRL and FM18, if you compare days lost due to injury, is lower than FM17 in that regard.

There's a section in the FAQ about injuries that may help. Additionally, visit the Medical Centre for info and advice too.

That does not answer my question.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, phd_angel said:

That does not answer my question.

Updates that alter gameplay are finished. So no they won't "fix" anything. There's nothing to fix, also, as I said and I've explained why - which also answers your question.

[herne79]

5 minutes ago, phd_angel said:

That does not answer my question.

 

46 minutes ago, phd_angel said:

Is the FM product team planning to tweak this feature for a more realistic result in any upcoming patch?

 

10 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

FM has fewer injuries than IRL

So you actually want more injuries if you want more realism.

However, different saves and periods of those saves will see different results.  If you are seeing players getting injured for 3-5 months every week (really?) then you're probably in an unlucky period.  But if you believe there is an issue, the best thing you can do is start a new thread in the Bugs Forum and upload your save for SI to take a look at.

[Snorks]

Yeah, don;t see there is anything to 'fix' to be honest. 

Check your training levels, match load and use the medical center to manage your player fitness.

To be more realistic, you will get MORE injuries over the season.

[FrazT]

As others have said, there is nothing to fix with injuries.  They happen, of course, but the amount and frequency are not unrealistic.  Users remember when they have a run of bad injuries, but don't remember when they have a run of few injuries.

[phd_angel]

15 hours ago, FrazT said:

As others have said, there is nothing to fix with injuries.  They happen, of course, but the amount and frequency are not unrealistic.  Users remember when they have a run of bad injuries, but don't remember when they have a run of few injuries.

Just like in the offside case that pestered FM 16-17, (some) moderators keep criticizing players until someone in the Product team decides it's about time to fix the problem. In any case, moderators should be a little bit more open-minded and respectful. Thanks.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, phd_angel said:

Just like in the offside case that pestered FM 16-17, (some) moderators keep criticizing players until someone in the Product team decides it's about time to fix the problem. In any case, moderators should be a little bit more open-minded and respectful. Thanks.

Don't make it about mods. The facts are there. Everyone, including SI, is saying that there aren't issues with injury levels. You've not shown anything or provided any info. And you've been pointed to areas that can help you.

I'm very interested in A) how many you have out injured right now and B) what your Medical Centre is telling you w.r.t. the injury numbers you are experiencing. I'm 22% lower than was expected. Most injured at once, this season, only 7 and the previous season, 8.

[FrazT]

6 hours ago, phd_angel said:

Just like in the offside case that pestered FM 16-17, (some) moderators keep criticizing players until someone in the Product team decides it's about time to fix the problem. In any case, moderators should be a little bit more open-minded and respectful. Thanks.

This has nothing at all to do with being respectful or open minded.  This issue has been raised before, the developers have responded, quoted the real-life statistics and advised how those stats relate to FM, so I am just stating what they have said before,

[Neil Brock]

We've even created an injury based FAQ which covers this and some other hints and tips in more detail here - https://community.sigames.com/faq/football-manager-2018/156_gameplay/injuries/

[Snorks]

It's not that hard to manage to be honest.

At most, of my squad of 24, there are two possibly three players unavailable for selection due to injury. I expect maybe an extra one on average nearing the end of the season.

I have all postilions covered - not always with strong players, but I know  I have a young GK who can step in for 'easier' games to rest my first choice, I know I have an experienced DC who's role is to step in when either of the two first choices are rested, plus a youngster to give game time to. Same across the whole 11 positions. My U2os has a player in every positon that can step up to first team if needed.

Playing League, Cup and European football, so fixture demand is high, but using the medical center and a bit of forethought and planning ahead works. So, we have a Serie B opponent on Weds in the  cup, then Juve on Sunday followed by RB Salzberg  on the Thursady - right, we can rest a coupple of guys on Weds, who has played the most recently? Who is meeting the appearances/squad status ratio? Who are the Medicals worried about? 

Five minutes and my starting 11 for Weds is sorted, a rough idea of my starting 11 for the weeknd and so on.

 

[phd_angel]

9 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

We've even created an injury based FAQ which covers this and some other hints and tips in more detail here - https://community.sigames.com/faq/football-manager-2018/156_gameplay/injuries/

Thanks, Neil. As always, you are the most helpful and respectful moderator in this forum.

[Hovis Dexter]

I think I may have solved my injury problems. Since January, in the team training screen, I've rested the players for one day before a match but not rested them after the match. However, following each match I've sorted everybody by fitness and rested anybody who was showing as "tired" for two days. From the remaining players, I rested anybody with a condition of less than 95% for one day. It's now mid April and the Medical Centre reports that we've seen a 50% decrease in injuries compared with what we would expect on average.

[Svensen]

On 27/06/2018 at 22:20, FrazT said:

This has nothing at all to do with being respectful or open minded.  This issue has been raised before, the developers have responded, quoted the real-life statistics and advised how those stats relate to FM, so I am just stating what they have said before,

We ask for you to be respectful and instead you criticise, please do not say ‘it’s your fault ‘ immediately as we buy this game.

[phd_angel]

54 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

I think I may have solved my injury problems. Since January, in the team training screen, I've rested the players for one day before a match but not rested them after the match. However, following each match I've sorted everybody by fitness and rested anybody who was showing as "tired" for two days. From the remaining players, I rested anybody with a condition of less than 95% for one day. It's now mid April and the Medical Centre reports that we've seen a 50% decrease in injuries compared with what we would expect on average.

I started doing something similar. I give more rest days, particularly to players under "Very High Risk" of injury. I tried to reduce team training load from Heavy to Medium, but team performance declines dramatically, so I don't feel I can change that, do you?   Thanks.

[themadsheep2001]

34 minutes ago, Svensen said:

We ask for you to be respectful and instead you criticise, please do not say ‘it’s your fault ‘ immediately as we buy this game.

He didn't criticise. He stated facts.

[themadsheep2001]

10 minutes ago, phd_angel said:

I started doing something similar. I give more rest days, particularly to players under "Very High Risk" of injury. I tried to reduce team training load from Heavy to Medium, but team performance declines dramatically, so I don't feel I can change that, do you?   Thanks.

When you say team performance, what you do you mean. Because changing from heavy to medium won't suddenly see you losing a load of matches

[Hovis Dexter]

10 minutes ago, phd_angel said:

I started doing something similar. I give more rest days, particularly to players under "Very High Risk" of injury. I tried to reduce team training load from Heavy to Medium, but team performance declines dramatically, so I don't feel I can change that, do you?   Thanks.

i've put team training at medium. My team performance this year is really good - we are Olympique Lyonnais and are twelve points clear of the rest of Ligue 1with four games to play.

[Svensen]

17 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

He didn't criticise. He stated facts.

Look, I only ask to be more polite. If you will not even acknowledge that then considering we purchase the game the treatment that SI gives to their customers is disgraceful, good day.

[themadsheep2001]

12 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

i've put team training at medium. My team performance this year is really good - we are Olympique Lyonnais and are twelve points clear of the rest of Ligue 1with four games to play.

I don't think I ever train at heavy. Individual players might be at heavy if i need to push hard on some individual training, but team training is generally medium, except in pre season where its heavy

[themadsheep2001]

6 minutes ago, Svensen said:

Look, I only ask to be more polite. If you will not even acknowledge that then considering we purchase the game the treatment that SI gives to their customers is disgraceful, good day.

There was nothing impolite in what he said either. Enjoy your day too.

[2feet]

Keep pushing your board to increase the number of physios you have. The more physios you have, the less injuries you get, and the injuries you do get are shorter.

[phd_angel]

3 hours ago, Svensen said:

Look, I only ask to be more polite. If you will not even acknowledge that then considering we purchase the game the treatment that SI gives to their customers is disgraceful, good day.

 

3 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

There was nothing impolite in what he said either. Enjoy your day too.

@Svensenhas a good point, as I have also raised it before.  This defensiveness among some moderators is baffling. I work in marketing, and wonder whether SI ever gives any basic training on customer service... The tone of moderators in this forum often comes across as rude and alienating. Moderators should demonstrate more appreciation for the feedback given by gamers. 

[themadsheep2001]

12 minutes ago, phd_angel said:

 

@Svensenhas a good point, as I have also raised it before.  This defensiveness among some moderators is baffling. I work in marketing, and wonder whether SI ever gives any basic training on customer service... The tone of moderators in this forum often comes across as rude and alienating. Moderators should demonstrate more appreciation for the feedback given by gamers. 

Nothing was rude, everything was factual. If however, you are going to continue attacking moderators, this thread will be closed. It's upto you. Let's keep this on topic, and that goes for everyone

[Hovis Dexter]

Guys  - I know this totally off topic but nevertheless ... I read somebody saying that now we all have computers that are vastly more powerful than those that took the first men to the moon but what do use them for? Looking at pictures of cats and arguing with strangers.

Perhaps we should use this thread to discuss injuries and how to prevent them and nothing else.

[themadsheep2001]

15 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

Guys  - I know this totally off topic but nevertheless ... I read somebody saying that now we all have computers that are vastly more powerful than those that took the first men to the moon but what do use them for? Looking at pictures of cats and arguing with strangers.

Perhaps we should use this thread to discuss injuries and how to prevent them and nothing else.

As I mentioned to PHD, lowering train to medium wont affect performance, so I'm interested to see what he is doing. There's still too much information missing though, would need more detail from his save

[phd_angel]

9 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Nothing was rude, everything was factual. If however, you are going to continue attacking moderators, this thread will be closed. It's upto you. Let's keep this on topic, and that goes for everyone

@themadsheep2001 - Apologies. No attacking to moderators. But I'm sending a note to Miles to see if he can try improve things over here.

[HUNT3R]

1 hour ago, phd_angel said:

@themadsheep2001 - Apologies. No attacking to moderators. But I'm sending a note to Miles to see if he can try improve things over here.

Use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the page.

As for the actual topic, it seems you're seeing fewer injuries now?

[XaW]

I would just like to add for those who don't know. In the preview/teasers SI posted about FM18 before it was released they stated they had revamped the whole injury system to allow to be more realistic. This includes more small niggles and hits where players are out for a few days rather than long injuries.

Another thing that might help out is rotating players during times of lots of games. Few players can play game after game after game without developing wear and tear injuries. Also remember that individual training increases the training load, the same for players learning new positions.

So if you have medium intensity, that don't mean the individual load is medium if you simultaneously have the player in question learn a new position, have individual focus and learning a new PPM.

For what it's worth for those who are experiencing a lot of injuries while following all suggestions, try to see if the player are injury prone. If your team are a team of Harry Kewells then you will have loads of injuries not matter what you do. And if all else fail, you could be unlucky and RNGesus hates you.

[phd_angel]

38 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the page.

As for the actual topic, it seems you're seeing fewer injuries now?

Thanks for the note regarding the Contact Us form.

Correct. I read @Neil Brock stats, and made several tweaks in the training, and injuries decreased.

[HUNT3R]

2 minutes ago, phd_angel said:

Correct. I read @Neil Brock stats, and made several tweaks in the training, and injuries decreased.

Good news. 

[phnompenhandy]

My injuries decreased dramatically when I altered my approach to training.

 

I used to think pre-season you should put everyone on fitness training, high and intensively.  This led to players getting worn out during the season. Now i don't use fitness at all for general training; instead I play more friendlies to get players match fit.

 

During the season I used to use general fitness training too much - now again I never use it and give players rest if they have 2 matches in a week or condition is low.

[Sourav B]

34 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

My injuries decreased dramatically when I altered my approach to training.

 

I used to think pre-season you should put everyone on fitness training, high and intensively.  This led to players getting worn out during the season. Now i don't use fitness at all for general training; instead I play more friendlies to get players match fit.

 

During the season I used to use general fitness training too much - now again I never use it and give players rest if they have 2 matches in a week or condition is low.

well you are again doing wrong, cz fitness training is must until the players are at least over 90% of condition, play only 1 friendly n a week for 2 weeks with very high Fitness with more match training, and as the matchday arrives, just for then put some holidays in the next week (later remove it) and put less match training, until the day finally arrive, put only half the day of match training or none at all then again after the matchday has passes, increase the match training more like before and remove all the holidays next week then again when the matchday arrives follow the same procedure. This worked quiet fine for me for last 30 seasons with minimal amount of injury, ultimately you have to put that workload to 'High', not lower or higher than that, and also dont bother about individual attributes for pre-season just train the position-role you want to play him.

 But one thing to remember is that Fitness training in the pre-season is must up to the above 95% condition of all players, otherwise they will not be ready for the new long season, and will suffer injury along the way, which is even more frustrating.

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, Sourav B said:

well you are again doing wrong, cz fitness training is must until the players are at least over 90% of condition, play only 1 friendly n a week for 2 weeks with very high Fitness with more match training, and as the matchday arrives, just for then put some holidays in the next week (later remove it) and put less match training, until the day finally arrive, put only half the day of match training or none at all then again after the matchday has passes, increase the match training more like before and remove all the holidays next week then again when the matchday arrives follow the same procedure. This worked quiet fine for me for last 30 seasons with minimal amount of injury, ultimately you have to put that workload to 'High', not lower or higher than that, and also dont bother about individual attributes for pre-season just train the position-role you want to play him.

 But one thing to remember is that Fitness training in the pre-season is must up to the above 95% condition of all players, otherwise they will not be ready for the new long season, and will suffer injury along the way, which is even more frustrating.

Fitness training doesn't improve players' Condition or their Match Fitness. It trains Attributes. 

[Sourav B]

I think fitness is used to get the players match fit and put in right condition to play, I use it up to my players get to 95% condition, cz in most cases in the pre-season players' conditions are low, at least I work on this theory which worked pretty well so far..

[Hovis Dexter]

In pre season, I've found that playing two friendlies a week is the way to go. I play with a basic squad of twenty two - two players for each position - rotating them according to individual condition and match sharpness. This way I've found that my squad is fully fit at the start of the season. My general training pre season changes according to circumstance - if I've a few new players I generally go with team cohesion otherwise I go with fitness and normally leave the level as medium. Individuals are nearly all training for a specific role with an additional concentration on one attribute.

[Sourav B]

1 minute ago, Hovis Dexter said:

In pre season, I've found that playing two friendlies a week is the way to go. I play with a basic squad of twenty two - two players for each position - rotating them according to individual condition and match sharpness. This way I've found that my squad is fully fit at the start of the season. My general training pre season changes according to circumstance - if I've a few new players I generally go with team cohesion otherwise I go with fitness and normally leave the level as medium. Individuals are nearly all training for a specific role with an additional concentration on one attribute.

But I think fitness training is must for pre-season at least thats what the clubs do and also the FM managers do, almost all guides on internet points to that fact, that at least 2 weeks of fitness training is must especially when you are competing in multiple competition like CL, cups, league etc..

[Sourav B]

Ultimately its personal choice though

[herne79]

16 minutes ago, Sourav B said:

well you are again doing wrong, cz fitness training is must until the players are at least over 90% of condition, play only 1 friendly n a week for 2 weeks with very high Fitness with more match training, and as the matchday arrives, just for then put some holidays in the next week (later remove it) and put less match training, until the day finally arrive, put only half the day of match training or none at all then again after the matchday has passes, increase the match training more like before and remove all the holidays next week then again when the matchday arrives follow the same procedure. This worked quiet fine for me for last 30 seasons with minimal amount of injury, ultimately you have to put that workload to 'High', not lower or higher than that, and also dont bother about individual attributes for pre-season just train the position-role you want to play him.

 But one thing to remember is that Fitness training in the pre-season is must up to the above 95% condition of all players, otherwise they will not be ready for the new long season, and will suffer injury along the way, which is even more frustrating.

 

1 minute ago, Sourav B said:

I think fitness is used to get the players match fit and put in right condition to play, I use it up to my players get to 95% condition, cz in most cases in the pre-season players' conditions are low, at least I work on this theory which worked pretty well so far..

There's no right or wrong, people just play the game in different ways.

Technically speaking setting General Training to Fitness focusses team training on developing player's Physical attributes and Work Rate.  But of course it's equally correct if you want to role play things a little, such as: "welcome back from holiday lads, we need to head into the gym and get you fit for the season".

All I would advise though is make sure you schedule several friendlies as well as whatever you set up for Training to give your squad as much chance as possible to be properly Match Fit for when competitive matches start.

[Sourav B]

2 minutes ago, herne79 said:

 

There's no right or wrong, people just play the game in different ways.

Technically speaking setting General Training to Fitness focusses team training on developing player's Physical attributes and Work Rate.  But of course it's equally correct if you want to role play things a little, such as: "welcome back from holiday lads, we need to head into the gym and get you fit for the season".

All I would advise though is make sure you schedule several friendlies as well as whatever you set up for Training to give your squad as much chance as possible to be properly Match Fit for when competitive matches start.

thanks for lighting it up, I have posted a question just 10 -15 mins earlier in general discussion about position swapping, can you help me with that? thanks 

[phnompenhandy]

Yes, friendlies is the way to get conditioning and match fitness up to scratch for the start of the season. My point is that General Fitness training can easily result in players getting injured either early in the season of later on when jadedness sets in. Because there can be a delay of months, many FMers don't see the correlation.

[Snorks]

I have pretty much ditched the 'Fitness' in general training now, unless there are specific attributes that need work in the squad.

Once I learned that it does nothing for Match Condition, pre-season is now more tactic familiarity and friendlies for me - the players condition rises quickly anyway, and match condition is gained through playing. 

[herne79]

31 minutes ago, Snorks said:

I have pretty much ditched the 'Fitness' in general training now, unless there are specific attributes that need work in the squad.

Once I learned that it does nothing for Match Condition, pre-season is now more tactic familiarity and friendlies for me - the players condition rises quickly anyway, and match condition is gained through playing. 

Yup.  Team Cohesion can also be useful during pre-season when you've brought in several new players to the first team (either transfers or promoted young players).

[phd_angel]

7 hours ago, herne79 said:

Yup.  Team Cohesion can also be useful during pre-season when you've brought in several new players to the first team (either transfers or promoted young players).

How do I solve the lack of Match Cohesion? (See image of my Dynamics below). I'm 2/3 throughout the season, played a bunch of friendlies during pre-season, and set my group training on  team cohesion pretty often. I'm at a loss here. Any advice is appreciated. 

PS: is match cohesion = team cohesion?

[DementedHammer]

Has anybody tried the files attached to this thread? This sounds like it could be the solution to your problems. 

 

[Neil Brock]

5 hours ago, phd_angel said:

How do I solve the lack of Match Cohesion? (See image of my Dynamics below). I'm 2/3 throughout the season, played a bunch of friendlies during pre-season, and set my group training on  team cohesion pretty often. I'm at a loss here. Any advice is appreciated. 

PS: is match cohesion = team cohesion?

Are you rotating your team or tactic quite often? Cohesion is related to the familiarity of keeping these fairly consistent.  

[Seb Wassell]

5 hours ago, DementedHammer said:

Has anybody tried the files attached to this thread? This sounds like it could be the solution to your problems. 

 

I'm not actually convinced that will work. Occurrence ratio is how often a certain injury might appear as part of the total, but the total is a separate value. Also worth considering that injuries have certain causes, they cannot be achieved outside of these.