I loaned Ademilson to the Championship for 3 years and he's gone from 5 stars to 2

[diggler75]

He scored 50 goals in three years at Derby and Middlesbrough in the Championship but he's 22 now and his stats are quite good not great. Any idea why he might have failed to develop into a top class striker?

[Tyler42]

Thats about as good as a striker would get at a Championship level...

[Nottingham Forest]

Probably because he's been playing in a lower league with lesser training facilities. Stars are based on what players yoy have in your squad. So if you have 3 really quality strikers then he won't be rated as good as them. Still play him and see what he can do. It's possible that after a few months they could improve.

[jujigatame]

I have the same problem. Loaned out players never seem to improve. My theory is that the training they get is absolute garbage and negates the positive effects of getting first team action.

[SRL88]

If your squad has improved as well over the years then he is being compared against others players.

[Johnyfooty]

Probably because he's been playing in a lower league with lesser training facilities. Stars are based on what players yoy have in your squad. So if you have 3 really quality strikers then he won't be rated as good as them. Still play him and see what he can do. It's possible that after a few months they could improve.

To be honest, more than half of the championship teams have top facilities and the league is high enough to reach full potential easily.

Most likely reason is what SRL88 said. The OP's squad most likely improved a lot in those 3 years.

[Nottingham Forest]

I also said that as well.

Edit: Without getting into a debate. You'll find alot of Championship clubs don't have top facilities.

[joseph777]

I´ve also just signed Ademilson for my Chelsea team in 2014. I´m hoping he will come to become the kind of supersub I need, but still remains to be seen if he will ever grow into that world class striker I am hoping for. At this moment, he looks really promising but I have yet to start the season. Some players that have huge potential just dont become that great in the game. Aldo looking at his stats for your team, he looks like a supersub. Anyhow, I´d just wait til he becomes 24 years old to see if he can fulfill his potential, after that I dont think his stats will grow that much.

[hehehemann]

There is a really good thread in the tactics and training forum by Cleon regarding youth prospects and getting the most from them.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/343043-Ajax-Youth-Development-–-When-The-Real-World-Meets-Football-Manager

[scott MUFC]

AI dont develop players, I don't loan them out when they reach 18 or 19.

[Neil Brock]

AI dont develop players, I don't loan them out when they reach 18 or 19.

First team football and a club with half decent training facilities will most definitely improve a player, even if he's at an AI club. Remember when a player is younger his PPA is much likely to be less accurate than his actual PA - as he ages generally it'll begin to match up, showing his true CA/PA.

[PaulHartman71]

It's your tactics

[BiggusD]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

He can become a lot better than that. I don't even think he maxed out in my save even though he certainly became better than in your save. Doesn't look like he has developed at all down there. It is probably not a high enough level for him and/or he wasn't used right.

[mixmkz]

He is overrated, from all the pictures I've seen, and from my experience of having him on my Arsenal team until 25, he turns out to be similar for everyone.... above average.

Now in 2021 season I see many real players who are in their 28 - 29 who are much better, and the scout didn't bother to tell me about them when they were young talents at their respective clubs.

[Bradley21]

Loaning players out is almost utterly pointless, sure you can improve them but even chucking a 17 year old into a winning team for a few senior games a season will improve them more than loaning them to a good lower league team for a full season.

FM has never managed to capture the importance of playing time on a players development. In real life so many players go away on loan at a lower league club and just through playing first team football and training with a first team they come back much better players than before they left. But in FM the player needs to have played consistently well, the loaning club must have good facilities and the league must be of a good standard. This totally misses the mark with what loan moves can actually do for a player in the real world.

So while it's based purely on training facilities, league rep and average rating it just isn't worth loaning players out.

[Vector]

Did you change the Assman during his time out?

[BiggusD]

Loaning players out is almost utterly pointless, sure you can improve them but even chucking a 17 year old into a winning team for a few senior games a season will improve them more than loaning them to a good lower league team for a full season.

FM has never managed to capture the importance of playing time on a players development. In real life so many players go away on loan at a lower league club and just through playing first team football and training with a first team they come back much better players than before they left. But in FM the player needs to have played consistently well, the loaning club must have good facilities and the league must be of a good standard. This totally misses the mark with what loan moves can actually do for a player in the real world.

So while it's based purely on training facilities, league rep and average rating it just isn't worth loaning players out.

This is not always true. I have had players come on leaps and bounds and actually surprise me to the point of "who's this guy?" the first of July. But yes I have also on many occasions been disappointed, and I know there's a high risk of the loan spell being a waste of time. This is why I only send out on loan those who come in behind the designated youth 11 in my first team and whose personality and Determination is ready for competitive football outside the safe and cozy conditions at my club. I also pay close attention to their CA; I don't loan out a "good player for most Championship clubs" to a Premier League club, for instance. He won't be good enough there. The same the other way around; I don't loan out "a good player for most PL clubs" to a Championship club, which is what it appears the OP did. He won't develop there. The problem comes when a player is "a decent player for most PL clubs". Then he is unlikely to play well (and much) for a PL club and he is also unlikely to impress even if he did play a lot there. He will likely play well in the Championship, but that is beneath his level and he will not get much CA out of each match down there. It might be best to find another nation for him to play in, but if not possible, if his personality is good enough he might improve enough to impress in the PL after a while.

As far as Ademilson goes, he is not a world-class talent. He is a good poacher. Unless you can get him early enough to tutor him, he won't have what it takes to become much better than the above version. Obviously, in 2020 there are 7 batches of regens in the game and in each one there are several strikers with much higher potential than him (statistically). I think him being a star striker in the Russian league and having a dozen or so International apperances for Brazil is as far as he will go most of the time.

[Babak G]

So stars are only relative to your own players? So if I have a 2 star striker compared to a 5 star striker, does that not mean that the 2 star player is average but that compared to the other striker he is? So if he goes to another team with lesser strikers he may jump to 4-5 stars himself? Where do you draw the line?

[AjaxNo1]

Id say any player loaned out for 3 years will get slightly worse its to long or you should of loaned him into the prem so he can play at a higher level

[Babak G]

I don't get your point at all, the logic makes perfect sense. I don't see a need to draw the line anywhere.

Think of jordan rhodes while playing in League 1 (first example I could think of). If you ask League 1 scouts to rate him they would say he was brilliant, the best, 5 star. If you ask Barca scouts what they think of him they wouldn't be very interested, they would say he would never be good enough due to how good their players are, 1.5 star. This is exactly how it happens in game. So what is your problem?

Read the words under the stars, they are more constant. If you are the best team in the league you can have a 3 star player who is a "leading <league name> player" without being that great at your team.

Take the players that sit on Chelsea's bench each week. At Chelsea they aren't necessarily that great. But they are still "leading premiership players"

I don't know why I've gone to such lengths to explain this, its so bleeding obvious. Where do I draw the line?

I dont think you understood what I meant. It was purely a question to confirm whether stars are relevant purely to your team or not. It was not a criticism or a praise. It was a neutral question. But thanks for the feedback.

[Herbert Fandel]

I dont think you understood what I meant. It was purely a question to confirm whether stars are relevant purely to your team or not. It was not a criticism or a praise. It was a neutral question. But thanks for the feedback.

sorry for getting unnecessarily wound up. The reading the description instead of looking at the stars bit was vali as advice though.

[Freakiie]

What people seem to be forgetting is that Ademilson has a negative PA. It could very well be the OP got him with the lowest possible PA at which point he won't be much better than that and he simply can't develop further because he hit his PA.

[Herbert Fandel]

What people seem to be forgetting is that Ademilson has a negative PA. It could very well be the OP got him with the lowest possible PA at which point he won't be much better than that and he simply can't develop further because he hit his PA.

Then he would never have shown up as 5 star? As I understand it negative PA is only for before the game starts. Once the game starts it changes to a real PA within the range covered by the negative number, no?

I think it will be a combination of mostly the OP's team getting better, and possibly Ademilson missing out on some development during his formative years, if the clubs he was at didn't have good training facilities or coaches. He could also have been injured during those years

[Babak G]

sorry for getting unnecessarily wound up. The reading the description instead of looking at the stars bit was vali as advice though.

Yep I took that away from your post! Thanks

[ri916]

He looks awful in your game. You're much better off keeping him at your team and playing him as regularly as possible, it's not like he starts out as a bad EPL player anyway.

[Siven]

You wasted his potential by loaning him out for 3 years to lesser clubs.

His stats dont seem to have improved from the tart of the game. I find it best to keep youth at my club training heavy and playing youth/reserve games with a few first team appearances in cup games etc. At around 20/21 i may loan them for 6 months (unless they have broken into the first team as a regular) if they have improved well and i dont see myself playing them enough, at least that way i still have them for 6 months to train heavy etc.

Loaning them out for 3 years is just wasted training and potential as they rarely improve through training and game time outside of your own club it seems.

[gogogo golem]

To me it looks like he hasn't been developed properly since he doesn't look much better if at all than when he starts the game. He scored a lot for me in the prem from the start so you wasted him.