The 2012-2013 Manchester United Thread: Thank you, Sir Alex

[Gizzy]

Just seen this elsewhere:

Just announced on the Dutch Radio that UTD and AJAX will exchange youth players next year for both to get experience.

Interesting???

[Ricky Button]

reckon that could be part of a possible deal to sign Eriksen?

[JJ72]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/8681456/Sir-Alex-Ferguson-says-Manchester-United-will-be-competitive-in-transfer-window

SAF on spending plans for the Summer - no mention of Nani or Ando but Rooney is 'at his peak' - god help us if this is the best he gets!

[hursty2]

Yeah don't think Rooney going is the right thing to do, he's very versatile along the front line and has just had an average season performance wise but has still contributed in almost 30 goals this season.

Plus, my dog's name is Rooney.

[Icelander83]

If we are going to sell Rooney, this is most definitely the time to do so. I wouldn't worry for a second if I got the news that we sold him tbf

[Razzler]

Excellent for your younger players to play in Holland but would any of theirs actually play first team football for you? Do you still have that link up with Antwerp?

[Pangaea]

Wouldn't worry for a second? What do we do if RVP gets a long-term injury? Yes, we have Chicha and Welbeck, but neither is nearly as good leading the line as RVP and Rooney. Both are very good strikers obviously, but I'd worry a great deal if Rooney was sold and RVP was out injured for 3 months.

However, if we are to sell him, now is probably the time. Since it looks like Nani (to my sadness) and possibly Ando are goners, we need to buy at least a midfielder and a new winger if these 3 leave. I'd prefer to have Rooney, but I also have to admit he hasn't been as good this season as we know he can be. That is frustrating when we know he earns a sick amount of money.

[Coldberg]

We wouldn't worry because if Rooney goes we would obviously sign a replacement.

I couldn't care if he stays or goes. Should've sold him when he decided he was better than the club rather than bowing to his demands.

[scott MUFC]

whats this rumour popping up about a rediculous offer we are making for Bale?

£55m + either Nani Anderson or Young

[Gizzy]

whats this rumour popping up about a rediculous offer we are making for Bale?

£55m + either Nani Anderson or Young

Give them Nani, Anderson and Young.

[tomtuck01]

Posted this in the match thread, will post it here too:

Rooney really annoyed me today. Did such a completely petulant thing at one point that showed him up as a completely petulant child.

Not only did he have a complete strop over RvP not threading a ball to him when he busted a gut to make a break, throwing his hands about everywhere & just giving up, but when he actually next got the ball, he looked up, saw RvP in a perfect position for a lofted pass & instead turned around & passed backwards.

It was the most blatant sign of "i'm not passing to you" I've ever seen at the highest level of the game. Such a small time, pub game type of move.

Just read this. Thought it aswell at the time, and after seeing it on't tele when I got back I thought so even more.

Really annoying that he doesn't seem to be coping with being second fiddle like he did when Ronaldo was at the club. Almost looks like he isn't happy having to give way to van Persie now that he has had a few years as the main man of the side.

[JJ72]

whats this rumour popping up about a rediculous offer we are making for Bale?

£55m + either Nani Anderson or Young

Yeah absolutely ridiculous - no way Bale's that cheap...Surely we've got to pay someone to take Young off our hands?

[Deltaroad]

Nani would be a monster for any other club besides United. So much potential I that I can see him being a world class winger/forward elsewhere.

[Pangaea]

That's the frustrating part Our style doesn't help him tho. Put him in a team with a more typical 4-2-3-1 so he can mainly focus on offense, and I think he would shine just about anywhere. Would fit well in Real Madrid for example. Would be strange to see Ronaldo and Nani re-united there.

[aderow]

That's the frustrating part Our style doesn't help him tho. Put him in a team with a more typical 4-2-3-1 so he can mainly focus on offense, and I think he would shine just about anywhere. Would fit well in Real Madrid for example. Would be strange to see Ronaldo and Nani re-united there.

I'd much rather see Ronaldo heading the other way

[milnerpoint]

I think its def time for Rooney to move on, he crossed Fergie a few years ago, and there has never been a player to come out on top of a fall out with Fergie. He moaned United were not going after the top talents, they have done, and its bumped him down the list, as he doesnt come under that bracket for me. He is not as good a striker as RVP and not as good a support man as Kagawa. He is a very good squad player for United, but he is no longer a top dog, and its all his own doing.

[Coldberg]

Got my season ticket renewal pack today. This bit of the letter was a particular highlight.

As a result of discussions with the Fans' Forum, new Season Ticket holders will not be eligible to apply for away games until they reach Silver level, however, existing Season Ticket holders will still be able to apply.

So in short anyone who has a ST already can apply for away games. Anyone buying one for next season (and any beyond) has to wait until their 4th season (Silver level starts at 4 years) before being able to apply for away games. So the start of the 2016/17 season Benefits to owning a ST are virtually non-existent now.

[roseboy64]

I think its def time for Rooney to move on, he crossed Fergie a few years ago, and there has never been a player to come out on top of a fall out with Fergie. He moaned United were not going after the top talents, they have done, and its bumped him down the list, as he doesnt come under that bracket for me. He is not as good a striker as RVP and not as good a support man as Kagawa. He is a very good squad player for United, but he is no longer a top dog, and its all his own doing.

Rooney's no longer a top talent? He's only behind RVP and Bale in terms of winning points for us this season. Some people. He's not been at his best and still has made a telling contribution to the season.

[x42bn6]

Rooney's no longer a top talent? He's only behind RVP and Bale in terms of winning points for us this season. Some people. He's not been at his best and still has made a telling contribution to the season.

Bale has joined us?

Rooney has also only played 22 league games this season - 31 for the season, and 16 goals, which is not a bad return by any means. Disappointing yes, by Rooney's standards, but then again, 1 in 2 closely-matches Hernández.

Neither Rooney nor Sir Alex are fishing for a move. We'd need to replace Rooney with a top-class striker anyway if he left. I think we'd consider a stupid bid from PSG, of course, and I'm half-expecting one to arrive this summer, but I don't think it will be silly enough to tempt United.

If we'd stop O'Shea-ing Rooney all over the pitch, we'd see Rooney in better form. I'm not sure it will improve much any time soon, though, especially if Nani leaves, because I have a nagging suspicion that we won't replace him beyond Zaha - which means more Rooney/Kagawa on the wing.

[Bagpuss]

Got my season ticket renewal pack today. This bit of the letter was a particular highlight.

So in short anyone who has a ST already can apply for away games. Anyone buying one for next season (and any beyond) has to wait until their 4th season (Silver level starts at 4 years) before being able to apply for away games. So the start of the 2016/17 season Benefits to owning a ST are virtually non-existent now.

Presumably would still be a large number fighting over minimal aways then or is there a high ST turnover these days.

Oh to be able to afford to get it back....

[RSB]

Rooney's no longer a top talent? He's only behind RVP and Bale in terms of winning points for us this season. Some people. He's not been at his best and still has made a telling contribution to the season.

Didn't score a hattrick against Norwich or skin Winston Reid though did he? Far too inconsistent like that.

[aderow]

Bale has joined us?

Rooney has also only played 22 league games this season - 31 for the season, and 16 goals, which is not a bad return by any means. Disappointing yes, by Rooney's standards, but then again, 1 in 2 closely-matches Hernández.

Neither Rooney nor Sir Alex are fishing for a move. We'd need to replace Rooney with a top-class striker anyway if he left. I think we'd consider a stupid bid from PSG, of course, and I'm half-expecting one to arrive this summer, but I don't think it will be silly enough to tempt United.

If we'd stop O'Shea-ing Rooney all over the pitch, we'd see Rooney in better form. I'm not sure it will improve much any time soon, though, especially if Nani leaves, because I have a nagging suspicion that we won't replace him beyond Zaha - which means more Rooney/Kagawa on the wing.

That's the thing I've been thinking quite a bit about lately and I agree with it. At this point I wouldn't mind seeing Kagawa play on the left if it meant Rooney could regain some consistency playing behind RVP. Or maybe it just came down to the fact that since they didn't get to play together as much as Sir Alex would've liked, he was able to completely figure out how to get them both on the pitch at the same time and get them playing at peak form.

[Icelander83]

YES, YES!!! Let's neuter Kagawa completely to suit Rooney!

[Andrew_]

But the opposite is fine?

[Icelander83]

The opposite has won us the league at a canter so yeah, it's fine.

[Icelander83]

I'm with brez, why complicate things when there's no need to?

[Andrew_]

The opposite has won us the league at a canter so yeah, it's fine.

What won us the league was favouring RVP over Rooney... not Kagawa..

But yeah, I'd rather play Kagawa in his position next season.

[ddidiodion]

The opposite has won us the league at a canter so yeah, it's fine.

Thought we were playing better when Kagawa was on the left and Rooney in his best position at the tip of the diamond tbh.

Not bothered where Rooney/Kagawa line up tbh, if you have a decent winger playing on the opposite side it will work, if you don't you have no width and you play like ****. Whoever is out wide between Kagawa and Rooney doesn't make all that much difference, the team barely plays any differently.

[Pangaea]

SAF wants to invest this summer. Glazer's ghost doesn't. Great

[Gooders86]

eh ?

[Gooders86]

ahhhh right i see. cant imagine scholes was on massive wages this season anyway?

[RSB]

The opposite has won us the league at a canter so yeah, it's fine.

What? In what way have we been 'neutering' Rooney in favour of Kagawa this season? And how has that been the decisive factor in us winning the league?

Kagawa's done the square root of nought to suggest that he can consistently deliver off the front man in the immediate future. He's still developing and should be allowed to do at his own pace. They've played 60 games between them so far this season (Kagawa 24 and Rooney 36), both playing in various roles and both missing time with injury. And like Dion says, some of Kagawa's best work has been from the left (and some of his worst off the front).

Rooney's had an(other) up and down season but is still coming off at around a goal every other game even when he's been played all over the place and had injuries at crucial times. Some of the overreaction in here has been ridiculous - fair enough if you don't like the guy for his personal life or the transfer request or whatever, but to question his ability is ludicrous. This is someone who's scored 100 goals in 168 games over the last four seasons despite the issues he's had this season and the horrible patch in 10/11. He's a great, versatile talent who, as Fergie quite rightly says, is approaching what would typically be considered the peak years of his career.

We should only be looking to sell him to fund a bid for a genuine world class centre mid, but I don't know whether the type of player we need would be available.

[aderow]

YES, YES!!! Let's neuter Kagawa completely to suit Rooney!

Because Kagawa is completely lost when played out on the left. What the hell have the Japanese been thinking having him out there all these year. Zaccheroni the fool.

Poor Kagawa. I feel for the guy I really do.

Neutering Kagawa completely? Not even close. It's not like I'm suggesting he play LB

Rooney likes to roam. Kagawa likes to roam. RVP likes to roam. If they play together long enough, they'll learn each others tendencies and they'll be fine. That's what I believe.

Not saying I wouldn't rather have Kagawa in the middle. But if Rooney is here, I'd rather have Kagawa out wide than Rooney.

[x42bn6]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/portrait-Manchester-United-Finance-Director/dp/B002113DSW

Do want

[Razzler]

Kagawa's had a couple of good games against middling teams .. sell Rooney now, he's rubbish!

[Razzler]

Not a million miles away. Wouldn't mind if you sold Rooney, neutering Kagawa. What rubbish

[Icelander83]

The beautiful irony of being lectured by you on what's rubbish

[Razzler]

Yeah, good one

Rumour Rooney may be sold so automatic preparation for 'Rooney is no good anyway' just in case the same as when anyone leaves

The idea that Rooney in the team is somehow 'neutering' Kagawa is great. If you honestly think that Rooney leaving and Kagawa taking on his kind of role is gonna make you stronger then great

[Icelander83]

Nobody said Rooney in the team neuters Kagawa

[Coldberg]

I personally think Rooney is either at or past his peak. He won't be getting any better but he is getting fatter and slower. He's always looking to pass the ball when he gets it now ratherthan burst forward with it.

The question is whether that's Rooney fitting the circumstances or Rooneys circumstances affecting his role. I think it's more the latter than the former.

I'm not saying he's rubbish but he seems to be having fewer and fewer games where he's brilliant.

[x42bn6]

I personally think Rooney is either at or past his peak. He won't be getting any better but he is getting fatter and slower. He's always looking to pass the ball when he gets it now ratherthan burst forward with it.

The question is whether that's Rooney fitting the circumstances or Rooneys circumstances affecting his role. I think it's more the latter than the former.

I'm not saying he's rubbish but he seems to be having fewer and fewer games where he's brilliant.

I think it's been a notable trend over the years. Rooney's goal against Newcastle many years ago, for example - you'd never see that any more. I suspect it's been a conscious decision by Sir Alex to channel the rampaging runs, powerful shots and angry, dogged defending in favour of a more controlled, consistent approach.

I think it will help Rooney last longer in football, though, which is perhaps what Sir Alex had in mind.

[Pangaea]

We will obviously be weaker if Rooney leaves, but we shouldn't forget how good Kagawa is either. He tore up Bundesliga last season and was voted the league's best player (so I've heard anyway). We've seen glimpses of what he can do, and I hope he does that more often next season. Pretty sure the idea was to play him off Rooney -- but then we got the chance to sign RVP. Clearly we couldn't that chance let slip, but it meant we ended up with Rooney and Kagawa vying for the same spot, and often Kagawa has found himself out on the left instead, where he isn't as effective most of the time.

Had a hard laugh today when I read Bale is already ready for United, and Giggs will retire this summer so Bale will take his shirt number. Are they having an internal contest about how ludicrous "rumours" they can come up with?

[JJ72]

We will obviously be weaker if Rooney leaves, but we shouldn't forget how good Kagawa is either. He tore up Bundesliga last season and was voted the league's best player (so I've heard anyway). We've seen glimpses of what he can do, and I hope he does that more often next season. Pretty sure the idea was to play him off Rooney -- but then we got the chance to sign RVP. Clearly we couldn't that chance let slip, but it meant we ended up with Rooney and Kagawa vying for the same spot, and often Kagawa has found himself out on the left instead, where he isn't as effective most of the time.

Had a hard laugh today when I read Bale is already ready for United, and Giggs will retire this summer so Bale will take his shirt number. Are they having an internal contest about how ludicrous "rumours" they can come up with?[/QUOTE]

Sure I heard that we offered Nani + 65Mill for Ronaldo but they wanted Chicharito instead...poor Nani!

[Coldberg]

There's a snippet in the Daily Mirror today about us being interested in some English lad at Atletico Madrid named Elliot Kebbie. Says a deal could be done with Chicarito going the other way.

[Icondacarver]

I personally think Rooney is either at or past his peak. He won't be getting any better but he is getting fatter and slower. He's always looking to pass the ball when he gets it now ratherthan burst forward with it.

The question is whether that's Rooney fitting the circumstances or Rooneys circumstances affecting his role. I think it's more the latter than the former.

I'm not saying he's rubbish but he seems to be having fewer and fewer games where he's brilliant.

This is the one for me, I feel Rooney will be lucky to perform at the top beyond 29/30. He looks so out of shape and not in a "cute, one too many burgers puppy fat Anderson" kind of way but the "Beer gut underlying obesity" kind of way

I think we should accept a mega offer but I highly doubt one will come so he stays.

[RSB]

He's always looking to pass the ball when he gets it now ratherthan burst forward with it.

The question is whether that's Rooney fitting the circumstances or Rooneys circumstances affecting his role. I think it's more the latter than the former.

I'm not saying he's rubbish but he seems to be having fewer and fewer games where he's brilliant.

Can't argue with any of that but I'm not so sure that modifying his game in this way won't necessarily improve him as a player. He's obviously got a brilliant footballing brain and having more of the park in front of him if he's to drop deeper could help him exploit that. And...

I think it's been a notable trend over the years. Rooney's goal against Newcastle many years ago, for example - you'd never see that any more. I suspect it's been a conscious decision by Sir Alex to channel the rampaging runs, powerful shots and angry, dogged defending in favour of a more controlled, consistent approach.

I think it will help Rooney last longer in football, though, which is perhaps what Sir Alex had in mind.

... this. Already by changing his game to focus more on his positioning and movement off the ball rather than with it we've seen the two 30+ goal seasons. By adapting his game to fit his fitness (issues) he may improve by focusing his influence rather than trying to be everything to everyone, and could last longer for us to boot.

It should also be considered that the nostalgic Euro 2004 Rooney never turned out every week; he was always inconsistent to a degree and always suffered with injuries. Bar the horrific spell around the transfer request the only time he was significantly better than he has been over the past few years was around 07/08, where he had a less expressive role and the talents of Ronaldo to attract opposition attention. I think some of the issue is that he was in a poorer team from 04-07 and people expect him to be around the same level in comparison to (much of) the rest of the team as he was then, where in reality the team/squad has improved at a greater rate than he has personally.

[ddidiodion]

Rooney's performances from 2007-2009 time were on average some of his worst for me, got away with missing a lot of chances and poor all round play because of his work rate and how well Ronaldo was doing.

[RSB]

See this is what I mean - personally I thought that those years were some of his best work in terms of his flexibility and his workrate, but he still wasn't the man next to Ronaldo. 2005-06 was a lot of experimentation out wide (from the depths of Benfica away to the highs of the Cardiff robbery); 09/10 saw loads of goals at the detriment to his allround game, 10/11 is a write off and then you have last season (which some people were still on the fence about). So what peak is he supposed to have slumped from? Is the suggestion that he's never been good enough? Or do people just think that he has underachieved due to a combination of early development and unrealistic expectations based on Euro 04 and a hattrick against Fener (if we take the argument that he's plateauing at the ripe old age of 27)?

[ddidiodion]

I still think up until the injury vs Bayern 09/10 was his best, he was pretty much neck and neck on goals at that point with Messi (although he would never have caught him as Messi went into mental form not long after). Last season he was great but it gets overlooked because of how we lost the title. RvP has been no better than Rooney was that 09/10 season (and take out injuries Rooney would have had the far better season), especially in terms of his all round game.

I agree in general though, Rooney has been consistently excellent for a long time now, people are just spoilt when it comes to him and still hold lots of bad blood. He'll sign a long contract and by the time it comes up for renewal next everyone will have gotten over it, just like Rio.

[Bren24]

Simply put, let's at least recoup what we paid for him, get rid of his horrendous wages, bring in a couple of players whilst also providing Hernandez & Welbeck with some more game time next season.