Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[Cloud9]

11 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

"Cleon" is the standard answer. He has these 2 posts in this very forum:

https://www.viewfromthetouchline.com/2022/12/31/fm23-data-and-analysis-to-enhance-team-tactics-and-formations/

https://www.viewfromthetouchline.com/2023/01/10/fm23-match-analysis/

Much appreciated, top man.

[allyc31]

How do seemingly conflicting team instructions such as Drop off, lower press trigger and prevent playing out from the back? 

[CARRERA]

17 minutes ago, allyc31 said:

How do seemingly conflicting team instructions such as Drop off, lower press trigger and prevent playing out from the back? 

Why would you want to do that if I may ask?

Drop off should have no effect, as its a situational instruction, which does only affect the behaviour of your defenisve line under certain circumstances. Lower pressing triggers shouldn't be too bad either. What would really disturb your shape is playing with a low definsive line while marking out defenders with your strikers to prevent short GK distribution. Your team will most likely have to give up their defensive stance or allow space between your attackers and defenders.

Edited February 13, 2023 by CARRERA

[allyc31]

No interest in doing it exactly, was just using it as an extreme example of seemingly conflicting team instructions and how they impact the performance

A less extreme version might be

1. playing on caution

2. no changes to defensive line or trigger press

3. But preventing play out from back

presumably that would be the same, big(ish) gap between centre forwards and midfield?

[CARRERA]

16 minutes ago, allyc31 said:

No interest in doing it exactly, was just using it as an extreme example of seemingly conflicting team instructions and how they impact the performance

A less extreme version might be

1. playing on caution

2. no changes to defensive line or trigger press

3. But preventing play out from back

presumably that would be the same, big(ish) gap between centre forwards and midfield?

You have to check that ingame actually. But what might be a negative side effect, is your players tireing out more quickly, as they mark the defenders high up the pitch to then sprint back into the relative conservative defensive shape (which comes with cautious mentality). Thats why prevent short GK distribution is particular good in a high block. Your team has to cover shorter distances. Its easier and more efficiently to execute.

Edited February 13, 2023 by CARRERA

[Cloud9]

9 hours ago, allyc31 said:

No interest in doing it exactly, was just using it as an extreme example of seemingly conflicting team instructions and how they impact the performance

A less extreme version might be

1. playing on caution

2. no changes to defensive line or trigger press

3. But preventing play out from back

presumably that would be the same, big(ish) gap between centre forwards and midfield?

I imagine it would lead to your striker getting pulled out of position occasionally, but I haven't tested it in the ME either. 

[mikcheck]

How do you guys feel about playing 2 strikers with attack duty in a flat 442? Is it something you'd use?

I'm trying that with a CF(a) and PF(a), but the trick here is that the CF has the trait to come deep, so I think it can work. I want him with an attack duty, because I want him to take more risks and be more aggressive with the ball because he is really good in all areas. I also use a balanced mentality, so having him with a support duty might be a bit cautious.

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by mikcheck

[Cloud9]

10 hours ago, mikcheck said:

How do you guys feel about playing 2 strikers with attack duty in a flat 442? Is it something you'd use?

I'm trying that with a CF(a) and PF(a), but the trick here is that the CF has the trait to come deep, so I think it can work. I want him with an attack duty, because I want him to take more risks and be more aggressive with the ball because he is really good in all areas. I also use a balanced mentality, so having him with a support duty might be a bit cautious.

 

As a general rule of thumb you want two main goal threats in your tactic so it shouldn't be a problem.

• As long as the PF(a) has pace and the CF(a) has height it'll work with your sitting deep/crossing/direct approach.
• I'd be more concerned about the structure of the midfield. You've opted for a no-nonsense back 4, with that you'll find more success with a DLP(s) in one of the two midfield roles. He'll offer you a holding role, someone you can distribute the ball to, and unlock a range of passing from your third of the pitch. I'd suggest your current setup could leave the team struggling in transitions of play.
• Another potential problem is no one providing width on the left, while you have two roamers in the middle of the park.

It's difficult to give advice on "roaming/complete." They're allowed free rein to ignore your tactic and go wherever they want at the expense of those around them. Unless they are truly super stars (decisions, passing, end product, physical profile) your tactic itself is better with a more defined role.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Cloud9

[allyc31]

In terms of individual training, am i i safe to leave the players on the Playing Position instruction or is it always better to give them a specific role to train, presumably the role they're going to be playing?

[Cloud9]

On 17/02/2023 at 02:41, allyc31 said:

In terms of individual training, am i i safe to leave the players on the Playing Position instruction or is it always better to give them a specific role to train, presumably the role they're going to be playing?

Specific role is really important in my experience. It doesn't even have to be the role you intend to play them in. 

Choose whatever role highlights the attributes you're after developing on the player. Some attributes, aggression/tackling don't have individualized training options, but you can target them directly by sticking a player on a BWM role training.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Cloud9

[mikcheck]

I have a player who plays as a WM, he is kind of a playmaker without being one (he also has traits of a playmaker). I have him to sit narrower, play more direct and risky passes. Now he learned (out of nowhere) to move into channels. 

Do you think it can negatively impact his performances?

Thanks

[phnompenhandy]

On 17/02/2023 at 17:41, allyc31 said:

In terms of individual training, am i i safe to leave the players on the Playing Position instruction or is it always better to give them a specific role to train, presumably the role they're going to be playing?

It comes down to whether you want a rounded player or a specialist player. That in turn depends on whether you vary your formation and tactics or stick rigidly to one formation/roles/duties.

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, mikcheck said:

I have a player who plays as a WM, he is kind of a playmaker without being one (he also has traits of a playmaker). I have him to sit narrower, play more direct and risky passes. Now he learned (out of nowhere) to move into channels. 

Do you think it can negatively impact his performances?

Thanks

If you have too many other players moving into the channels it can be a real problem. In general I think playmakers aren't the best pick for move into channels, I'd rather have the playmaker picking out the run than making it himself. Those runs tend to benefit from pace, off the ball, and end product which I don't prioritize on my playmakers.

If he's capable of scoring goals, mobile, and you have other players creating chances it could be okay (utilizing two playmakers or perhaps a particularly talented BPD for example).

That being said, If it was me I'd work to remove it from him (I prefer a more structured tactical approach where I want each player to do something specific). 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Cloud9

[Verby]

Can anyone give me some quick-fire criticism/opinions on this tactic? Currently in VNL as Hemel Hempstead and predicted for Playoffs. My idea is to get Nikitin on the ball as much as possible as he's my best player. I know people say not to play BBMs in the lower leagues but I have no idea what to play them as. I have both BBMs as Get Forward to attempt to overload the final third. I could drop one CM back to CDM? 

[Cloud9]

3 minutes ago, Verby said:

Can anyone give me some quick-fire criticism/opinions on this tactic? Currently in VNL as Hemel Hempstead and predicted for Playoffs. My idea is to get Nikitin on the ball as much as possible as he's my best player. I know people say not to play BBMs in the lower leagues but I have no idea what to play them as. I have both BBMs as Get Forward to attempt to overload the final third. I could drop one CM back to CDM? 

Sure, try swapping the right BBM to Mezzala (a). If he's attacking the space on the right offered by your asymmetrical tactic he'll get great ratings. For the BBM on the left, try out a CM(s) role. 

If you want to keep "play out from the back on," try dropping the DLP into the DM position. He can offer an outlet to the two more traditional centrbacks.

For the strike partnership, I'd prefer to have to the goalscorer on the outside, and the DLF central.  

 

[eXistenZ]

What could be the reason your goalkeeper ignores the specific instruction to kick it to striker A (who is 192cm and has jumping reach 19), but rather kicks it to his striker colleague who is about 3 heads shorter, loses the ball which leads to a goal against....

[herne79]

47 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

What could be the reason your goalkeeper ignores the specific instruction to kick it to striker A (who is 192cm and has jumping reach 19), but rather kicks it to his striker colleague who is about 3 heads shorter, loses the ball which leads to a goal against....

The reason could be you.  You are asking your keeper to do something which is not only notoriously inaccurate both irl and in game, but also something which is easily defended against resulting in giving the ball away regularly.  Goalkeepers can be one of the biggest possession killers.

Anyway, that's a very specific example you quote which sounds like it's a bit of a one off.  If it is, let it slide - **** happens.  If it's a regular occurrence, see above.

[Verby]

16 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Sure, try swapping the right BBM to Mezzala (a). If he's attacking the space on the right offered by your asymmetrical tactic he'll get great ratings. For the BBM on the left, try out a CM(s) role. 

If you want to keep "play out from the back on," try dropping the DLP into the DM position. He can offer an outlet to the two more traditional centrbacks.

For the strike partnership, I'd prefer to have to the goalscorer on the outside, and the DLF central.  

 

Thank you I have gone with the Midfield suggestions and managed to beat League Favourites 3-2. Can I ask why you prefer the strike partnership to be the way you said, naturally in my head I thought the Poacher would want to be more central to the goal

Cheers

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, Verby said:

Thank you I have gone with the Midfield suggestions and managed to beat League Favourites 3-2. Can I ask why you prefer the strike partnership to be the way you said, naturally in my head I thought the Poacher would want to be more central to the goal

Cheers

That's great, on the DLF his movement is going to be back towards your own goal. Playing him centrally lets him drop into a space where he can link up play with all of your attack/midfield, not just on the right hand side. He'll serve as the pivot point of your front three, using his strength to hold up the ball while the IW(a) and poacher attack on both sides. 

The poacher shouldn't find himself too far from goal on the right, and will benefit from being positioned in between the CB/FB making him a little tougher to track for the opposition.  

[Domoboy23]

Does ''Trap Inside'' make my back line play wider or narrower? I have a mental block everytime I think about this

[eXistenZ]

4 hours ago, herne79 said:

The reason could be you.  You are asking your keeper to do something which is not only notoriously inaccurate both irl and in game, but also something which is easily defended against resulting in giving the ball away regularly.  Goalkeepers can be one of the biggest possession killers.

Anyway, that's a very specific example you quote which sounds like it's a bit of a one off.  If it is, let it slide - **** happens.  If it's a regular occurrence, see above.

Another one of those "if your players arent Man City quality, dont use this instruction"?

 

Im not a professional footballer, but when i kick a ball, at least i can go make it go roughly to the right or left when i want to.

[Cloud9]

5 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

What could be the reason your goalkeeper ignores the specific instruction to kick it to striker A (who is 192cm and has jumping reach 19), but rather kicks it to his striker colleague who is about 3 heads shorter, loses the ball which leads to a goal against....

The Teamwork attribute impacts how often players follow what you're telling them to do I think.

But like other people say, distributing all the way up the field will lose you a lot of possession. If you've got a target man and you're playing against a much superior team, or a high press, it can be a great tactic. Otherwise an outfield player likely has better distribution than the GK. I'd only use it when you need to.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Cloud9

[CARRERA]

31 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:

Does ''Trap Inside'' make my back line play wider or narrower? I have a mental block everytime I think about this

Trap Inside will force play into central areas to create high quality chances on the break. It primarily does affect the positioning of your team in higher areas of the pitch. If you want your defense to be wide or narrow after defensive transition, you need to adopt the cross engagement settings.

[herne79]

1 hour ago, eXistenZ said:

Another one of those "if your players arent Man City quality, dont use this instruction"?

Not at all and a complete myth.  You can play any style at any level of the game in FM.

1 hour ago, eXistenZ said:

Im not a professional footballer, but when i kick a ball, at least i can go make it go roughly to the right or left when i want to.

Watch any match of professional football and see how many long kicks from keepers either go astray, get intercepted or won by the opposition defence instead of their striker.  It’s not about going left or right, it’s about high risk long kicks which favour the opposition 👍.

[Cloud9]

How far into the red does a player having a good game need to be before he gets subbed off?

In other words, how much does a players performance deteriorate as he gets more tired. Are you better subbing off under performing players w/more stamina left in that match?

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Cloud9

[DarJ]

8 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

How far into the red does a player having a good game need to be before he gets subbed off?

In other words, how much does a players performance deteriorate as he gets more tired. Are you better subbing off under performing players w/more stamina left in that match?

 

for me it depends if I'm winning or not. I've I'm winning by 2 or more goals then I will take off the tired players especially when they start giving away freekicks, If I'm losing then I'll take out underperforming players 

[mikcheck]

Are you guys reluctant in using a BWM in a 2 man midfield? 

[phnompenhandy]

1 minute ago, mikcheck said:

Are you guys reluctant in using a BWM in a 2 man midfield? 

Depends on the level for me. As a lower-league manager when I use players with poor attributes as a BWM they're guaranteed to get a yellow and frequently a red card.

[Cloud9]

8 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Are you guys reluctant in using a BWM in a 2 man midfield? 

I am a big fan of using one with w/a DLP role in the double pivot (DLP(s) BWM(d),

It gives the roles very distinct duties. One for holding and recycling/progressing possession and the other for running around, winning the ball back and disrupting opposition players. 

@phnompenhandy totally agree on the cards danger, it's a position where I highly value the players personality (which okay I always do, but especially here).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Cloud9

[mikcheck]

8 horas atrás, phnompenhandy disse:

Depends on the level for me. As a lower-league manager when I use players with poor attributes as a BWM they're guaranteed to get a yellow and frequently a red card.

 

52 minutos atrás, Cloud9 disse:

I am a big fan of using one with w/a DLP role in the double pivot (DLP(s) BWM(d),

It gives the roles very distinct duties. One for holding and recycling/progressing possession and the other for running around, winning the ball back and disrupting opposition players. 

@phnompenhandy totally agree on the cards danger, it's a position where I highly value the players personality (which okay I always do, but especially here).

 

Thank you.

I'm asking because I think lots of people is a bit skeptical about using a BWM when you only have 2 man in the middle. I've always read that it's not a very good option, as the player can leave too much space behind and disrupt your defensive shape. But I also think that it can work, as long as you have the right player, of course. The better the player there, the better will the role be played

Edited February 22, 2023 by mikcheck

[CARRERA]

1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

I'm asking because I think lots of people is a bit skeptical about using a BWM when you only have 2 man in the middle. I've always read that it's not a very good option, as the player can leave too much space behind and disrupt your defensive shape.

I'd say it heavily depends on how you envision your team to defend against the ball. If you are looking to provide constant pressure aggressively, the BWM is your man, even in a two man midfield. However, if you are primarily looking for someone to protect space, that specific role might not be your first choice, no matter of how many players are in your midfield.

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, mikcheck said:

 

Thank you.

I'm asking because I think lots of people is a bit skeptical about using a BWM when you only have 2 man in the middle. I've always read that it's not a very good option, as the player can leave too much space behind and disrupt your defensive shape. But I also think that it can work, as long as you have the right player, of course. The better the player there, the better will the role be played

To that point, I wouldn't put a BWM in the DM of a 4-3-3 because he'll get pulled out of position. Fortunately with a double pivot, you've got two DMs so you can have the other one hold.

Also take in consideration that your double pivot will play differently based on the players attributes you put in there, not just the roles. It can be helpful (for me anyways) of thinking of the double pivot as creating a "complete" player, like you would in a striker partnership (making sure there's a combination of height, pace, and end product). That being said I'd prioritize the BWM being a great athlete to use his physicality to impact opposition and eat up space in front of your backline. 

It's not a "bad role" but a facilitating one, allowing other players to shine. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Cloud9

[mikcheck]

3 horas atrás, CARRERA disse:

I'd say it heavily depends on how you envision your team to defend against the ball. If you are looking to provide constant pressure aggressively, the BWM is your man, even in a two man midfield. However, if you are primarily looking for someone to protect space, that specific role might not be your first choice, no matter of how many players are in your midfield.

A role you wouldn't use in a medium/low block? Even if it's kind of aggressive block? 

[CARRERA]

19 hours ago, mikcheck said:

A role you wouldn't use in a medium/low block? Even if it's kind of aggressive block? 

Well, its a player that perfectly fits an aggressive defensive style. Whether defending aggressively is a good choice in a low block or not is a different question. 

[mikcheck]

1 hora atrás, CARRERA disse:

Well, its a player that perfectly fits an aggressive defensive style. Whether defending aggressively is a good choice in a low block or not is a different question. 

But isn't a viable option? Some people use a low or medium block with more urgent pressing 

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, mikcheck said:

But isn't a viable option? Some people use a low or medium block with more urgent pressing 

I believe what they're saying is that if you're parking the bus, a BWM probably isn't your go to since you're prioritizing shape and don't want to concede fouls in dangerous situations. 

If you're on a low/med block and set up to counter attack, it's a great fit. The BWM will do what your tactic is waiting for, win the ball back. 

I'd say a low block BWM tactic would require 1. a higher quality BWM to not give away free kicks close to goal/penalties(if he's higher up the pitch there is less risk) 2. Really quick attackers.

If in doubt, I'd recommend a mid block  and changing from there if it feels necessary.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Cloud9

[CARRERA]

2 hours ago, mikcheck said:

But isn't a viable option? Some people use a low or medium block with more urgent pressing 

Well, everything is an option as long as it works. I personally don’t like triggering the press aggressively in a low block because I think it’s less effective and more dangerous then in the opposition half. I think it’s more effective to maintain a solid shape and cut off passing lanes. You can look to get stuck in if you want to be more aggressive. It won’t disturb your shape as much as pressing does.

A mid block is more flexible in its defensive approach as your team starts to provide pressure around the midline. 

[Domoboy23]

Hoping this might count as ''tactical''

Is it possible to assign a scout or build knowledge (without having to use a recruitment focus) for teams in my league? I'd expect from being a side that's been in the same top flight tier for 7 seasons to have a pretty good knowledge of each teams players, bar maybe youth prospects or new signings. However, most players look thoroughly unscouted and just a broad range of attributes and some not there at all.

It makes it really difficult to prepare for the next match as I'd imagine 30 games into a season I should be able to click on the opposition striker and see pretty much 100% of his attributes! 

[Johnny Ace]

On 23/02/2023 at 00:26, mikcheck said:

A role you wouldn't use in a medium/low block? Even if it's kind of aggressive block? 

You could say Kante in the title winning Leicester 4-4-2 was a BWM, he was the one that constantly hounded opposition players and covered every blade of grass. Exceptional player (at the time ) with him and Okazaki doing the bulk of the team's pressing  

[Cloud9]

On 27/02/2023 at 03:52, Domoboy23 said:

Hoping this might count as ''tactical''

Is it possible to assign a scout or build knowledge (without having to use a recruitment focus) for teams in my league? I'd expect from being a side that's been in the same top flight tier for 7 seasons to have a pretty good knowledge of each teams players, bar maybe youth prospects or new signings. However, most players look thoroughly unscouted and just a broad range of attributes and some not there at all.

It makes it really difficult to prepare for the next match as I'd imagine 30 games into a season I should be able to click on the opposition striker and see pretty much 100% of his attributes! 

You can assign a scout to your next opposition throughout the season, is that what you're looking for?

[eXistenZ]

just checking if im the only one who find this weird. I asked a few coaches to learn some player "plays killer balls". And their comment goes "thats a good idea, he has the athletic prowess to pull it off"

 

Surely it should be more about technique and vision? is this just coach AI going derp?

[Cloud9]

9 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

just checking if im the only one who find this weird. I asked a few coaches to learn some player "plays killer balls". And their comment goes "thats a good idea, he has the athletic prowess to pull it off"

 

Surely it should be more about technique and vision? is this just coach AI going derp?

Coaches are dumb. 

Look for a player with: Anticipation, Decisions, Flair, Teamwork, Vision, Passing & Technique for "Plays Killer Balls."

[OJ403]

Not sure if this is the right place, or if this is a stupid question. I'm in season 5 of a save and have recently took over Newcastle half a season ago. We finished 9th in the Premier League, but won the Champions League so qualified for the coming season that way. I want to sign Moukoko, who has an £80 million release clause to clubs in the Champions League. However, I can't activate this. Is this because they are in the Champions League? Or perhaps because this seasons hasn't officially started (as in last season's, which we won, is still shown in the competition page)?

[Cloud9]

7 minutes ago, OJ403 said:

Not sure if this is the right place, or if this is a stupid question. I'm in season 5 of a save and have recently took over Newcastle half a season ago. We finished 9th in the Premier League, but won the Champions League so qualified for the coming season that way. I want to sign Moukoko, who has an £80 million release clause to clubs in the Champions League. However, I can't activate this. Is this because they are in the Champions League? Or perhaps because this seasons hasn't officially started (as in last season's, which we won, is still shown in the competition page)?

Here you go. Short answer is that you can't trigger it because he has Champions League Football already.

[OJ403]

27 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

Here you go. Short answer is that you can't trigger it because he has Champions League Football already.

Yep, suspected that would be the case! Hopefully Dortmund don't last long then...

[cuski]

Hi!

I understand that tempo is what a player spend with the ball before making a decisión but...

Does tempo affects the direction of the passes? That is, a high tempo could produce more direct or long passes even if your directness pass instructions is pass short?

 PD: Excuse me, my english is not that good.

[CARRERA]

13 hours ago, cuski said:

Hi!

I understand that tempo is what a player spend with the ball before making a decisión but...

Does tempo affects the direction of the passes? That is, a high tempo could produce more direct or long passes even if your directness pass instructions is pass short?

 PD: Excuse me, my english is not that good.

No, tempo has no effect on passing directness.

Remember tho, that all instructions are more of a tendency, so even with shorter passing your players will occasionally play more vertically if the opportunity is there. 

[cuski]

hace 8 horas, CARRERA dijo:

No, tempo has no effect on passing directness.

Remember tho, that all instructions are more of a tendency, so even with shorter passing your players will occasionally play more vertically if the opportunity is there. 

Thanks!! Your answers have always helped me a lot.

I had the feeling that when the tempo increased the passes were more Direct even from my own half. I used cautious mentality and maybe my tactic lacks passing options together with low risk mentality ...

I've been playing FM for more than 10 years and I still don't understand very well how mentality, tempo and pass directness are connected

Thanks again, regards!

[Mik_Fe]

Hi guys!

Little question, when i've back 3, central defender with a cover duty, when i make to hold position and why? change his movement? make diagonal defensive?

[CARRERA]

9 hours ago, cuski said:

I had the feeling that when the tempo increased the passes were more Direct even from my own half. I used cautious mentality and maybe my tactic lacks passing options together with low risk mentality ...

For me that sounds more like your players are clearing the ball instead of playing direct. With a low mentality players usually tend to clear the ball more often anyway, as its the safest way to avoid the pressure, especially on a highter tempo where their decision making is limited in time. However, one effect of a higher tempo is players taking more (and riskier) opportunities to progress the ball due to their faster decision making. And as certain instructions are more of a tendency, your players might be taking more opportunites to play that direct ball.

9 hours ago, cuski said:

I've been playing FM for more than 10 years and I still don't understand very well how mentality, tempo and pass directness are connected

What me once helped, was to understand, that team mentality basicly is the first and most important layer of your tactical instructions that has the biggest effect on how your team plays as it does affect all phases of play. So after figuring out the basic idea of how i want my team to play, i pick the mentality that is the closest to what im looking for.
To keep it simple lets wiggle it down to that: The higher the team mentality, the more progressive your team will play, the more aggressive it will defend and the more they are willing to get involved into attacking play. And the lower the team mentality is, the more safely they will play, the more cautiously your team will defend and the less they are willing to get involved into attacking play. It might be oversmiplified but i think its a good starting point for someone who doesnt really know how to use mentality.

What you can now do with team instructions is to refine your style of play. e.g. I want my to team to defend higher up the pitch -> add a high block and higher defensive line. Thats why many people dont have to add many team instructions, because they already set up the correct team mentality for what they want to see on the pitch.
Of course the formation, roles and duties do also play a big part in a tactical construct. But thats a different story