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Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)


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52 minutes ago, bielsadidnothingwrong said:

Does it make sense to play a pacy, quick winger as a wide target forward, particularly when facing a slower wingback? 

In theory, no

Basically because the idea the ball supply goes to his feet or head rather than in space for him to run onto

But, could be something fun to try out 

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10 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Hi. A DLF(a) drops a bit deeper than CF(a), right? 

CF(a) will roam, a DLF(a) will drop deep and look to set up others and score for himself. 

Edited by Cloud9
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Training & development question: my hottest prospects are playing with my B team but training with the first team unit, are their any particular pit falls of doing this or big blunder that I’m making, as it seems the youngsters training and playing with the U19 squad are development better.

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8 minutes ago, kerrdavidson95 said:

Training & development question: my hottest prospects are playing with my B team but training with the first team unit, are their any particular pit falls of doing this or big blunder that I’m making, as it seems the youngsters training and playing with the U19 squad are development better.

If you check the bottom of this thread, there is a detailed answer for you :)

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 17/04/2023 at 18:44, Drikcey75 said:

hello! part of my youth team complain that "they are unhappy with their training units not getting enough attention"

i checked coach assignments, schedule, etc, everything seems to be ok, should i delegate to ass man? LUL

 

No, players will almost always complain about training, because they dont know whats good for them. As long as their training ratings are good, and their happines in other areas (playing time, contract, club, etc...) is ok, ignore it

 

 

My tactic question. I use a simple 433 control possession. I took a look at the stats comparison and noticed my team are the best in both decisions and vision. Should i go more expressive?

 

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5 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

 

No, players will almost always complain about training, because they dont know whats good for them. As long as their training ratings are good, and their happines in other areas (playing time, contract, club, etc...) is ok, ignore it

 

 

My tactic question. I use a simple 433 control possession. I took a look at the stats comparison and noticed my team are the best in both decisions and vision. Should i go more expressive?

 

Ask the players who have great decisions/passing/visions to pass it more direct in the PIs. More expressive will tell your whole team to roam a bit and to try these passes (which could lead to your players with no technical ability turning over possession).

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Somehow I find it difficult (mentally) to play with other formations than AI managers can, so... I really like the 4-2-2-2 (narrow), want to play high press with a high defensive line, but on every mentality, there's a huge gap in defence between the DM's and the AM's, even when I play them all on support duty. Any advice to how to get them closer together? (Without moving them to the CM strata, as the AI can't do that either?) I've also toyed with 'get further forward' PI on both DM's, but it doesn't help.

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1 hour ago, Ghost77 said:

Should I judge my tactic with good familiarity but a poor team cohesion? Will there be a large difference when my team gels better?

Players moral, team cohesion, and manager support will all be more influential than the tactic itself. There will be a huge difference. 

I would look at what the tactic is supposed to achieve and what the players in your squad are capable of doing. You should be able to still see if the numbers are correct despite the final result. Chances created, progressive chances, where you're conceding chances from etc. 

Edited by Cloud9
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1 hour ago, Cloud9 said:

Players moral, team cohesion, and manager support will all be more influential than the tactic itself. There will be a huge difference. 

I would look at what the tactic is supposed to achieve and what the players in your squad are capable of doing. You should be able to still see if the numbers are correct despite the final result. Chances created, progressive chances, where you're conceding chances from etc. 

Thanks. There are moments of brilliance, but also terrible mistakes and easy passes missed during the matches. It looks like the tactic would work with everything else (cohesion, morale etc.) maxed out. But results are very inconsistent and board is already on verge of giving me ultimatum 🥴

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28 minutes ago, Ghost77 said:

Thanks. There are moments of brilliance, but also terrible mistakes and easy passes missed during the matches. It looks like the tactic would work with everything else (cohesion, morale etc.) maxed out. But results are very inconsistent and board is already on verge of giving me ultimatum 🥴

Hm so to give a reference point:

My Sheffield Wednesday save this year I started with no badges which meant I had terrible managerial support and the clubs poor situation meant we began w/terrible dynamics despite being one of the best teams in League One. I was given a points ultimatum to save my job mideason by the board. In the end we went up through the playoffs, but it was a real dog fight and the board was still upset. First year in the championship, all the players were now on side (green bars in the three dynamics ratings) and breezed into automatic promotion despite being predicted to go down. Just to give a little perspective on how much of an impact poor dynamics can have on your squads performance. 

  • Usually individual mistakes aren't tactical but check the player who makes them. Poor mentals mean he's going to make mistakes, in which case you might want to move him on. If he's getting overly isolated/caught out due to your tactic, it might not be his fault.
  • I'd recommend giving players individual passing instructions if you see them giving away the ball cheaply. Go into the PIs and tell your less talented players to pass it short and a couple of the talented boys to pass more direct. 
  • If you've got space in the schedule arrange a couple of friendlies against terrible opposition. Bashing a small team 10-0 gets those dynamics bars up pretty quick. Just don't exhaust the players too much.
  • Talk to the players as much as possible to up those bars. 
  • Team meetings every few weeks can be the silver bullet to fix your morale. 
  • Check where you're conceding and scoring from on the pitch and try to make little adjustments like that. 

To save your job, I'd keep things simple. Avoid over tinkering, but hopefully you can start to isolate the real problems in the tactic like this :) Make sure you're going into matches with as good moral as possible and just take it one match at a time. 

Edited by Cloud9
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12 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Hm so to give a reference point:

My Sheffield Wednesday save this year I started with no badges which meant I had terrible managerial support and the clubs poor situation meant we began w/terrible dynamics despite being one of the best teams in League One. I was given a points ultimatum to save my job mideason by the board. In the end we went up through the playoffs, but it was a real dog fight and the board was still upset. First year in the championship, all the players were now on side (green bars in the three dynamics ratings) and breezed into automatic promotion despite being predicted to go down. Just to give a little perspective on how much of an impact poor dynamics can have on your squads performance. 

  • Usually individual mistakes aren't tactical but check the player who makes them. Poor mentals mean he's going to make mistakes, in which case you might want to move him on. If he's getting overly isolated/caught out due to your tactic, it might not be his fault.
  • I'd recommend giving players individual passing instructions if you see them giving away the ball cheaply. Go into the PIs and tell your less talented players to pass it short and a couple of the talented boys to pass more direct. 
  • If you've got space in the schedule arrange a couple of friendlies against terrible opposition. Bashing a small team 10-0 gets those dynamics bars up pretty quick. Just don't exhaust the players too much.
  • Talk to the players as much as possible to up those bars. 
  • Team meetings every few weeks can be the silver bullet to fix your morale. 
  • Check where you're conceding and scoring from on the pitch and try to make little adjustments like that. 

To save your job, I'd keep things simple. Avoid over tinkering, but hopefully you can start to isolate the real problems in the tactic like this :) Make sure you're going into matches with as good moral as possible and just take it one match at a time. 

Thanks for your rich answer, @Cloud9 :) Although I am quite seasoned player myself I always welcome tips and personal views from amazingly educated players like you. I realized one of my problems in this save could be the fact I managing Hearts in Scotland. They are in 3rd qualifying round of EL, eventually going to ECL, so the group stage is a certainty. The club has in fact no transfer/wage budget to spend, so I had to sell some weaker players to bring in some free transfers and best of the cheaper players to make some depth. But still, when playing UEFA games on Thursday and Premiership on Sundays (cups inbetween) I have to put on heavily rotated squads and my backup team just isn't strong enough to have consistent results. In my case these are usually the league matches, which end in boring draws or 1:2 losses with Motherwells and Livingstons (with missed penalties and three post hits on my side). Got also 4-6 injured players for a few weeks, although I would say my fitness management is half-decent.

If you would be interested I can show you my team and tactics in a separate thread as I don't want to spam too much here.

(And sorry for my English, I know it's quite confusing sometimes :idiot:)

Edited by Ghost77
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4 minutes ago, Ghost77 said:

If you would be interested I can show you my team and tactics in a separate thread as I don't want to spam too much here.

Feel free to do so :thup:

This thread is for quick questions and answers so try and keep it snappy :)

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9 hours ago, Ghost77 said:

Thanks for your rich answer, @Cloud9 :) Although I am quite seasoned player myself I always welcome tips and personal views from amazingly educated players like you. I realized one of my problems in this save could be the fact I managing Hearts in Scotland. They are in 3rd qualifying round of EL, eventually going to ECL, so the group stage is a certainty. The club has in fact no transfer/wage budget to spend, so I had to sell some weaker players to bring in some free transfers and best of the cheaper players to make some depth. But still, when playing UEFA games on Thursday and Premiership on Sundays (cups inbetween) I have to put on heavily rotated squads and my backup team just isn't strong enough to have consistent results. In my case these are usually the league matches, which end in boring draws or 1:2 losses with Motherwells and Livingstons (with missed penalties and three post hits on my side). Got also 4-6 injured players for a few weeks, although I would say my fitness management is half-decent.

If you would be interested I can show you my team and tactics in a separate thread as I don't want to spam too much here.

(And sorry for my English, I know it's quite confusing sometimes :idiot:)

Sure! Go for it :thup: 

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  • 2 weeks later...
2 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

does run at defence have any effect on wingers who are already really dribbly boys? 

No. Players asked to "dribble more" can't dribble more than that.

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3 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

Difference between winger on attack and wide midfielder on attack with the same instructions?

Not a lot I wouldn't imagine, I don't think there's anything "under the hood" with either role. I'm not in game to be able to check the mentality so as long as they line up, I don't think there's much difference, open to being corrected though   

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What is the most effective way to stop conceding goals from long balls? I'm currently playing mid block and a lower line of defense so unsure why long balls seems to be that effective against me. Using a mix of 433 and 4231 depending on opponent.

 

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3 minutes ago, samboro said:

What is the most effective way to stop conceding goals from long balls? I'm currently playing mid block and a lower line of defense so unsure why long balls seems to be that effective against me. Using a mix of 433 and 4231 depending on opponent.

 

Might be worth posting a thread with a screenshot and details of your tactic @samboro:thup:

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1 hour ago, fraudiola said:

mentality is the same but WM just seems to get in the box more and indeed scores more according to the stats for the same player. 

I do wonder why you asked when you already knew :D

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38 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

im not sure entirely if its true or just confirmation bias. maybe someone with actual knowledge on the difference could chime in 

Yeah, I don't think goals and assists will tell you anything, just watch their behaviour on and off the ball and that will tell you more 

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Has anyone else had a real issue facing a 5212 tactic?

It seems to be a go to tactic for the AI when I'm in good form and it seems to always stop me in my tracks. I've done 3 main saves this year (Birmingham in Championship, PSV in Netherlands and Bilbao in Spain) and the same thing seems to happen every time.

1. Go on a good run (usually unbeaten for 6-10 games)
2. AI switch to 5212 and put me back in my place for a couple of games
3. After being put in my place, the AI switch back to whatever they usually play and we start winning again

I played different tactics with all 3 teams (Birmingham 433, PSV 4231, Bilbao 5212) but the same thing happens every time.

I realise there isn't really a proper question there. My question is does anyone else have a similar problem playing against the 5212 tactic and have any advice on how to counter it?

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On 06/05/2023 at 07:58, GonzaloFlores said:

Has anyone else had a real issue facing a 5212 tactic?

It seems to be a go to tactic for the AI when I'm in good form and it seems to always stop me in my tracks. I've done 3 main saves this year (Birmingham in Championship, PSV in Netherlands and Bilbao in Spain) and the same thing seems to happen every time.

1. Go on a good run (usually unbeaten for 6-10 games)
2. AI switch to 5212 and put me back in my place for a couple of games
3. After being put in my place, the AI switch back to whatever they usually play and we start winning again

I played different tactics with all 3 teams (Birmingham 433, PSV 4231, Bilbao 5212) but the same thing happens every time.

I realise there isn't really a proper question there. My question is does anyone else have a similar problem playing against the 5212 tactic and have any advice on how to counter it?

5 at the back systems + a double pivot like this are defensively resolute, at a price.

3 CBs concede control in the middle of the pitch and this specific version places a huge attacking burden on the wingbacks. If you can shut the WBs down they will struggle to transition. You are also free to deploy a box midfield against it, out numbering them in mid field 4 vs 3 and further isolating the striker pairing.

Usually people struggle against 5 at the back systems when they go super high tempo. Drop the tempo, control the match and break them down.

 

Whenever you're struggling against a specific formation: just watch the spaces their players aren't in during the match and exploit that. 

Edited by Cloud9
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il y a 19 minutes, fraudiola a dit :

how high work rate and aggression do you aim for in your players in a gegenpress or high press setup?

It depends on your league. 
let’s say you’re in the Premier League, I would toss every player who’s bellow 13 (that’s my rule of thumb). I can adapt (I.e. I can be ok with a 12 for my striker if he has incredible stats).

For a gegenpress or a high press setup, i would also check concentration, teamwork, stamina and tackling. Some may argue strength too.

 

Just remember : it can be better to have a well-rounded player without incredible stats rather than an excellent striker that can’t press at all.

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I’m probably overthinking this… if I want to train a trait to encourage cross field passes from one wing to another do I go with 

 

‘Likes to switch the ball to wide areas’

Or 

‘Tries long range passes.’

 

If the player with the ball is already on one wing does the 1st trait necessarily mean he will ping it to the opposite wing..?

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il y a 31 minutes, Lambielsa a dit :

I’m probably overthinking this… if I want to train a trait to encourage cross field passes from one wing to another do I go with 

 

‘Likes to switch the ball to wide areas’

Or 

‘Tries long range passes.’

 

If the player with the ball is already on one wing does the 1st trait necessarily mean he will ping it to the opposite wing..?

You should aim for « like to switch » rather than the long ball.

The first one will do exactly what you want to do, not the 2nd.

 

and yes, it means he will aim for the other wing.

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Il y a 2 heures, mikcheck a dit :

Hi. Do you find marking essential for a defender? Does marking comes into play only when you instruct your player to mark a specific player?

Yes. It applies to all defensive players tbh

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3 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Hi. Do you find marking essential for a defender? Does marking comes into play only when you instruct your player to mark a specific player?

Yeah, it's essential as @CKBrahMa points out, if a defender's not man marking, he'll be zonal marking so it's a key attribute for defenders regardless 

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1 hora atrás, Johnny Ace disse:

Yeah, it's essential as @CKBrahMa points out, if a defender's not man marking, he'll be zonal marking so it's a key attribute for defenders regardless 

Would you consider one of the key attributes for a defender or you'd put other attributes like positioning and concentration above?

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18 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

Would you consider one of the key attributes for a defender or you'd put other attributes like positioning and concentration above?

All equally important for me 

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il y a 47 minutes, mikcheck a dit :

Would you consider one of the key attributes for a defender or you'd put other attributes like positioning and concentration above?

In theory, yes all equal.

However, your style of play will also have to be taken into account.

For instance, if you’re playing a possession-based football, it can be better to have a defender with less good defensive attribute but that can actually pass the ball rather than a rock solid defender that will oof the ball everytime

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43 minutos atrás, CKBrahMa disse:

In theory, yes all equal.

However, your style of play will also have to be taken into account.

For instance, if you’re playing a possession-based football, it can be better to have a defender with less good defensive attribute but that can actually pass the ball rather than a rock solid defender that will oof the ball everytime

And for example for a low/mid block maybe better positioning and concentration for example?

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3 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Would you consider one of the key attributes for a defender or you'd put other attributes like positioning and concentration above?

From the Mentals I think Anticipation is quite nice on a defender.

Unlike w/ attacking players who can superb in one thing, you should prioritize defenders who are more well rounded. At a premier league level, below 12 is a concern.

Edited by Cloud9
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Il y a 13 heures, mikcheck a dit :

And for example for a low/mid block maybe better positioning and concentration for example?

As I said, they’re key attributes : the higher the better.

However, if you play with a low block, jumping reach and heading should also be taking into account whereas pace and acceleration should be quite high for a high line.

Il y a 11 heures, Cloud9 a dit :

From the Mentals I think Anticipation is quite nice on a defender.

Unlike w/ attacking players who can superb in one thing, you should prioritize defenders who are more well rounded. At a premier league level, below 12 is a concern.

Anticipation is great, especially for defender which cover duty.

A great hint is the attributes highlighted when picking a role. It gives you a great indication of what is important, what is good. It doesn’t mean that what is not highlighted is not important, but they’re not considered as a key attribute.

What I do to scout the right players for my tactic (I.e. for a possession tactic, a minimum of 12/13 in passing, first touch, technique, anticipation, off the ball, workrate, decision, vision, balance, agility). For defenders on a high line of defense, I add pace and acceleration of at least 14, if not 15.
Then, with the players meeting this requirement, I look at the highlighted attributes for the role and go look for the best ones.

In that way I know that I have the best one for my tactic & style of play for a choosing role.

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Will an FB-S with PI to Sit Narrow function positionally the same way as an IWB? The IWB role has a few default PIs that I don't want (cross less often, cut inside with ball), so I'm curious if the FB-S with PI will do what I want without the other PIs. Also curious how important the roam from position PI is, which is defaulted for the IWB. I don't necessarily want that, but I'm not sure if it's needed to give the fullback more positional freedom when coming inside. 

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1 hour ago, Benjamin M said:

Will an FB-S with PI to Sit Narrow function positionally the same way as an IWB? The IWB role has a few default PIs that I don't want (cross less often, cut inside with ball), so I'm curious if the FB-S with PI will do what I want without the other PIs. Also curious how important the roam from position PI is, which is defaulted for the IWB. I don't necessarily want that, but I'm not sure if it's needed to give the fullback more positional freedom when coming inside. 

They're different. A FB(s) sitting narrow is very defensive, a IWB is a more possession based role depending on the duty given.

Usually they're coming in front of the central defenders when they tuck inside if there's space or making an underlapping run forward. If you don't want the IWB to abandon its defensive duties, avoid the duties with roam attached.

Either way whenever I see an opposition setting up with an IWB I'm 100% targeting that side to attack.

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What is the concrete difference between an Attacking Midfielder on Attack vs Support? In my current tactic, I have a 3-2-5 in possession with a single false nine and two attacking midfielders on attack, with two complete wing backs on attack too. Would it be possible to drop on attacking midfielder on support duty to offer a bit more possession in the middle of the park without sacrificing any penetration in the tactic? I'd ideally like to give them a lot more individual instructions, such as Roam from Position and Get Further Forward, but I'm not sure if this would really be wise. If anyone wants, I'd like a second set of opinions and ideas on this tactic, really. Maybe going Positive mentality, lowering the tactic width a little bit and then putting the AMs on Support duty with a bunch of individual instructions? I really just want this team to play a 3-2-5 in possession in a total football sort of style, and right now I'm in the second season so I'm still refining the tactic to find the best version of it.

For reference, here's the tactic. 

image.thumb.png.9f5951f1df9904d5f033dd6ff4636feb.png

Edited by Adonalsium
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On 09/05/2023 at 03:14, Cloud9 said:

5 at the back systems + a double pivot like this are defensively resolute, at a price.

3 CBs concede control in the middle of the pitch and this specific version places a huge attacking burden on the wingbacks. If you can shut the WBs down they will struggle to transition. You are also free to deploy a box midfield against it, out numbering them in mid field 4 vs 3 and further isolating the striker pairing.

Usually people struggle against 5 at the back systems when they go super high tempo. Drop the tempo, control the match and break them down.

 

Whenever you're struggling against a specific formation: just watch the spaces their players aren't in during the match and exploit that. 

Thanks for the advice.

I had it happen again so I dropped my tempo back to normal and told players to regroup rather than press as they are likely to just hit it long anyway.

The game ended 1-1 but we definitely had more control than we usually do against a 5212. Need to tinker with a few other things to make it work better but it is definitely a start.

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I've had quite a lot of joy out of pairing a MEZ + a Winger due to how they interact going up the pitch together. 

Has anyone found a similar interaction with the more defensive Carrilero (paired with a Winger)?

Edited by Cloud9
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3 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

I've had quite a lot of joy out of pairing a MEZ + a Winger due to how they interact going up the pitch together. 

Has anyone found a similar interaction with the more defensive Carrilero (paired with a Winger)?

Yeah, it's a good combo to help with the wide areas, obviously not as dynamic as the MEZ/ Winger combo. I prefer using them in a flat 3 midfield, like a 4-1-3-2, so it's not a role I use much to be honest 

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Something I never really understood is how certain attributes take effect if the roles don't require it. Like I want to play a trequartista and my options are a player with 10 work rate and a player with 18 work rate, lets say everything else is identical. Treq is a role famous for not tracking back and doing defensive work so does that 18 work rate just goes to waste ? If I play the 10 work rate guy as a SS and the 18 one as a Treq will the SS still press more ?

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23 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Yeah, it's a good combo to help with the wide areas, obviously not as dynamic as the MEZ/ Winger combo. I prefer using them in a flat 3 midfield, like a 4-1-3-2, so it's not a role I use much to be honest 

Gotcha, did a bit of additional tinkering with one paired with a W(s) on the same side but felt a bit underwhelmed. Think I'll stick to the trusty CM(s).

17 hours ago, Fëanáro Míriel said:

Something I never really understood is how certain attributes take effect if the roles don't require it. Like I want to play a trequartista and my options are a player with 10 work rate and a player with 18 work rate, lets say everything else is identical. Treq is a role famous for not tracking back and doing defensive work so does that 18 work rate just goes to waste ? If I play the 10 work rate guy as a SS and the 18 one as a Treq will the SS still press more ?

The roles highlight which attributes the game believes are most important for the role to function, but playing a role w/ different attributes will change how the player plays it. I would think of it as a starting guide, but your tactic is a better guide for what attributes you'll need.

The SS role asks the player to do more out of possession, but if the player himself isn't a hard worker he'll do it either poorly/ or rarely. Treq has hard coded ease of tackles and probably a bit more you can't see, but if the player is industrious they will still work hard in the role. Roles have additional instructions going on under the hood which also influence what the player is likely to do. 

You can also stick traits on a player to impact how he plays a role. For example if you get "trys killers balls" on a traditionally hard working player, they will have a tendency to attempt to make plays regardless.

If you want to more control over how your playmaker plays, you can go for a AMC/AP(s) and stick roam, pass more direct + trigger press more often in the PIs for a hard working Treq like role. 

Edited by Cloud9
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49 minutes ago, CKBrahMa said:

Not a question about tactic but :

where do we take in charge the scheduling of friendlies ? It is always my assistant manager that does it and it screw up my pre-season training

Staff responsibilities:

 

 

Spoiler

Screenshot_20230522-113916_Chrome.jpg

 

Edited by Chiravilla
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image.png.7f4db1416e38853294251f252babf83b.png

How much importance should I give the extra attributes for a sweeper keeper (i.e first touch, acceleration, rushing out)? 

Above is a screenshot of my new keeper who the game suggests could play sweeper keeper support. However with 6 first touch and middling rushing out and acceleration values I don't think its a good idea.

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