Fantastic game, but agreed, looking too easy

[Govnar1]

1. tactics have too much of influence on team performance imo. I'm not sure if real managres have that much of control on some tactical aspects like in FM (for example players shooting instruction from rarely to often.).

2. tatcical system is too complicated for AI right now. any experienced human player has lots of advantage in this department.

NO! (read post #148)

[SeanNUFC]

I did this on my Barnet save - I set match prep to Average & on Defensive Positioning. After 18 games I had the best defence in the league (only 12 conceeded), even though we were one of the worst teams (media prediction 24th). This and morale you reckon?

Quite possibly. Its worth testing.

[eric1000]

In game all parameters (and their values) are known, as opposed to reality, where it is impossible to even define all parameters that affect outcome, let alone acquire correct values. So theoretically, in game, it should be possible to literally "calculate" victory. In my opinion, in closed systems with all known parameters, it's not that hard to create invincible AI, it's hard to make it feel human.

The result is already calculated by the game before you even start the match. If you make any changes during the match then the game recalculates the outcome. All the 2D or 3D match engine does is generate situations that lead to the score it has already calculated; the clever bit is doing it so that it looks spontanious and unscripted.

[khriztian]

Damn, I'm struggling with Sheff Utd on my save.

[Lahulu]

I too am struggling a lot. I am playing as Hamburg and I got sacked at the end of the first season and lost the first five games of my second try. I tried different tactics, didn't do many transfers and the morale is perfect, yet I can't seem to catch a break. In both seasons i had multiple longterm injuries (5-8 months) and one of my CDs was my topscorer because it seems that every second corner results in a goal this year (for as well as against me). I am really thinking about returning the game this year and now I see the consensus seems to be it's too easy? Damn, I must suck...

[Govnar1]

The result is already calculated by the game before you even start the match. If you make any changes during the match then the game recalculates the outcome. All the 2D or 3D match engine does is generate situations that lead to the score it has already calculated; the clever bit is doing it so that it looks spontanious and unscripted.

You need to reread my post, I do not refer to this specific game. I am merely trying to point out that in any closed system, where all parameters that can affect the outcome are known values and where number of possible actions available to both sides is finite, AI with decent coding and given enough processing time can not lose! Hence I consider comments a la "Tactical system is too complicated for AI right now. Any experienced human player has lots of advantage in this department" counterproductive. What ever we do tactically AI should theoretically be able to counter and, all other factors being equal, draw or win (off course certain randomization (uncertainty) that is for sure element of any good real life simulation is not taken in account here, as it affects both sides equally (human and AI) and none should be able to influence it). However making AI resemble human behavior (intuitive judgment), as opposed to previously described Borg like behavior (step by step deduction) or making AI deal with open systems is very, very hard.

disclaimer: All written above is strictly in my unqualified opinion and possibly extremely naive (I am not a programmer or any kind of expert on AI) so if there is anyone with better understanding of AI programing (and theory) I would like to hear (read) more on this topic.

[AjaxNo1]

Im using the same tactics I destroyed the Dutch league with Ajax with Dusseldorf and Im really struggling, I think its partly down to the coaching staff, at Ajax I had 4 stars across the board its mostly 3 at Dusseldorf

[Mitja]

You need to reread my post, I do not refer to this specific game. I am merely trying to point out that in any closed system, where all parameters that can affect the outcome are known values and where number of possible actions available to both sides is finite, AI with decent coding and given enough processing time can not lose! Hence I consider comments a la "Tactical system is too complicated for AI right now. Any experienced human player has lots of advantage in this department" counterproductive. What ever we do tactically AI should theoretically be able to counter and, all other factors being equal, draw or win (off course certain randomization (uncertainty) that is for sure element of any good real life simulation is not taken in account here, as it affects both sides equally (human and AI) and none should be able to influence it). However making AI resemble human behavior (intuitive judgment), as opposed to previously described Borg like behavior (step by step deduction) or making AI deal with open systems is very, very hard.

disclaimer: All written above is strictly in my unqualified opinion and possibly extremely naive (I am not a programmer or any kind of expert on AI) so if there is anyone with better understanding of AI programing (and theory) I would like to hear (read) more on this topic.

AI will switch between different stategies, use a few shouts and some basic opp instructions. that's about it what it does tactically. it doesn't suit tactics or change formations to meet players strenghts. it won't choose best roles for players, it can't change team and player instruction to meet their attributes, it doesn't exploit ME weaknesses or creates super tacics etc etc. humans have huge advantage and it's a personal choice wheather you want to be on same playgroud as AI.

[eric1000]

You need to reread my post, I do not refer to this specific game. I am merely trying to point out that in any closed system, where all parameters that can affect the outcome are known values and where number of possible actions available to both sides is finite, AI with decent coding and given enough processing time can not lose! Hence I consider comments a la "Tactical system is too complicated for AI right now. Any experienced human player has lots of advantage in this department" counterproductive. What ever we do tactically AI should theoretically be able to counter and, all other factors being equal, draw or win (off course certain randomization (uncertainty) that is for sure element of any good real life simulation is not taken in account here, as it affects both sides equally (human and AI) and none should be able to influence it). However making AI resemble human behavior (intuitive judgment), as opposed to previously described Borg like behavior (step by step deduction) or making AI deal with open systems is very, very hard.

disclaimer: All written above is strictly in my unqualified opinion and possibly extremely naive (I am not a programmer or any kind of expert on AI) so if there is anyone with better understanding of AI programing (and theory) I would like to hear (read) more on this topic.

I agree with you. The AI for FM however isn't anywhere near that sophisticated and as I pointed out in an earlier post it would cost SI / Sega a great deal of money to hire someone capable of creating an AI sophisticated enough to really challenge the player; it can be done though certainly. Nevermind, 20 years from now or so we should be in the realms of quantum computing and all of us will end up bottom of the league

[Govnar1]

AI will switch between different stategies, use a few shouts and some basic opp instructions. that's about it what it does tactically. it doesn't suit tactics to players strenghts, it won't choose best roles for players, it can't change team and player instruction to meet their attributes, it doesn't exploit ME weaknesses or creates super tacics etc etc. humans have huge advantage and it's a personal choice wheather you want to be on same playgroud as AI.

I absolutely agree with above and have already complained about AI (and AI squad building in particular) here. In my previous post I have tried to indicate that this is not consequence of AI's inability to match humans in closed systems but rather of programers choice to make it like that.

[Govnar1]

I agree with you. The AI for FM however isn't anywhere near that sophisticated and as I pointed out in an earlier post it would cost SI / Sega a great deal of money to hire someone capable of creating an AI sophisticated enough to really challenge the player; it can be done though certainly. Nevermind, 20 years from now or so we should be in the realms of quantum computing and all of us will end up bottom of the league

In real and virtual life, if I may add.

[shoome]

I've been a constant critic of the increasingly-baffling micro-management required to produce an effective tactical system in CM/FM over the years. I didn't buy FM11 as a result (the first year I'd missed for many) having become bored of resorting to using tactics created by others in order to deliver reasonable success but felt compelled to add my thoughts to this thread, given the criticism aimed at the latest release.

With FM12, for the first time in years I've found I'm able to set up a system using the tactics creator that plays like real football - and gets results. An example being a standard 4-4-2 tweaked to my particular requirements yet something that resembles 'real football', with the added bonus of shouts/instructions that result in exactly what you ask for.

I like to think I know a little bit about football (don't we all) having played it for 30+ years and having chosen a career that grants me the opportunity to write about it in order to pay the rent. Not to mention my glorious spell as manager of the local under nines back in the early 1990s ... heady days indeed (we avoided relegation, at least).

But I digress... from my perspective, this latest release is the most realistic I've played in terms of adapting 'real life' footballing philosophies to a PC. Which is how it should be; success shouldn't be the domain of only those who can afford hour upon hour in which to constantly tweak sliders that have little-to-no bearing whatsoever on 'real' football.

Before I go I should point out that I was twice informed early on in my current game that I was 'one game away from the sack' ... the difference being that I could see where I was going wrong and that the changes I implemented worked as one would expect them to (resulting in a six match unbeaten run IIRC). So for that at least, kudos to the boys and girls at SI from this old skool Football Manager.

Speaking of which, I understand that January 2012 marks the 30th anniversary of the original FM hitting the shelves.

I'd hate to think how many hours I've spent on games like this since; I reckon I might be wasting a few more now...

[SeanNUFC]

Just started a new game with Dortmund and wow, using classic tactics for some reason has given it a more realistic feel for me. I'm very intrigued by this game now. Doesn't feel like i'm ever gonna thrash anyone atm and i've lost a game to. Classic tactics possibly the way to go.(just hope it continues like this)

[Cannibal]

Played 2 seasons so far with Sporting. First year did the domestic treble, second year won the league and the Champion's league beating Man City in the final 3-1. During these two seasons I have spent a grand total of 3.5 million, 2.1 of which was on one player. My biggest signing of the second season was 36 year old Clarence Seedorf on a free because the board gave me no money to spend. I changed up the back four a bit with promising youngsters but aside from that it is pretty much the same group of players I started with. I guess that signing Seedorf is pretty much a guarantee that you'll win the champion's league anyway

[SeanNUFC]

Ok so i've figured for me personally using the opposition instructions has too big an impact, the games are far more interesting when i don't bother with them. Don't think i'll use them anymore!

[Lankylars]

Especially as the match engine hasn't really changed this year. People are playing with hundreds of hours of experience and discounting the advantage this gives.

Very valid point. What other game can many of us say we have year and years and hundreds of hours of experience playing? Naturally over time FM becomes easier for us, just as any other task or hobby does with repetition and practice. That's life.

Furthermore, I disagree with those who think that every team should be a significant challenge. If you play with Man United or Man City, for example, it shouldn't be hard to win the league and to do well in the cups. Look at Man City in the tables now. The beauty of FM is that it tries to replicate real life. If you want a challenge, play with a team that is predicted to struggle in their division, plain and simple.

[hursty2]

AI teams need to be very hard to beat away from home and challenge you and most often beat you to that amazing wonderkid...that you just so happened to know about and nobody else did. AI teams should go to bidding wars with you, as ATM there seems to be little competition within the transfer market. Also, in the second season average teams seem to always get a massive transfer budget, like getting 21M with Stoke every season.

[mvp]

Very valid point. What other game can many of us say we have year and years and hundreds of hours of experience playing? Naturally over time FM becomes easier for us, just as any other task or hobby does with repetition and practice. That's life.

Furthermore, I disagree with those who think that every team should be a significant challenge. If you play with Man United or Man City, for example, it shouldn't be hard to win the league and to do well in the cups. Look at Man City in the tables now. The beauty of FM is that it tries to replicate real life. If you want a challenge, play with a team that is predicted to struggle in their division, plain and simple.

Have you read any of the previous posts in any "fm12 is easy" post? your point has been dismissed about 100 times.

[thegr8anand]

It IS easier this year. They made it easier so that we don't frustrate over the fm11 match engine ;-)

First season I am chelsea and beat barca at their home 4-0 with MY OWN tactics even though in 2nd leg at my ground it was 1-1.

[stf1979]

I give up until they fix the game... I'm with Nott Forest with normal 442 tactic and I get always wins like 4-0, 5-2, 6-0 ( too many goals!)

[Firehammer]

I would like to buy the game but this "game is too easy" is worrying me about the purchase. I like the competition in the games!

Are there future patches planned to improve this?

[f1dave]

No, because apparently there isn't a problem...

[NEO-BAHAMUT-]

Im sick of these "the game is too easy threads"... The game is as easy or as difficult as you want to make it. If you are finding it easy go to a lower league side who don't give you the funds to do transfers or any wage budget. On my save im Kidderminster and i've got a 9k wage budget. No money at all and having to work with what i've got.

We should start to delete these threads.

[thegr8anand]

I would like to buy the game but this "game is too easy" is worrying me about the purchase. I like the competition in the games!

Are there future patches planned to improve this?

No its not as easy as just click and win. Its just more fun now

[stf1979]

Im sick of these "the game is too easy threads"... The game is as easy or as difficult as you want to make it. If you are finding it easy go to a lower league side who don't give you the funds to do transfers or any wage budget. On my save im Kidderminster and i've got a 9k wage budget. No money at all and having to work with what i've got.

We should start to delete these threads.

Try to read the older posts and few examples... No matter the team you choose.. No matter the players you bought or the budget you have , the game still easy at all you don't need special tactic, only a normal one and keep it on continue button. It's simple.

[Graham206]

So stop hitting continue over and over. It's an exploit. If you could win a different type of game, say an rpg, by pressing F1 a thousand times and then getting a screen saying "You've won!" would you do that and criticise the game, or say "that's boring, I'll play it properly?

[Äktsjon Männ]

So stop hitting continue over and over. It's an exploit. If you could win a different type of game, say an rpg, by pressing F1 a thousand times and then getting a screen saying "You've won!" would you do that and criticise the game, or say "that's boring, I'll play it properly?

Eh? How else do you progress in the game then, if using the continue button is an exploit now?

[stf1979]

So stop hitting continue over and over. It's an exploit. If you could win a different type of game, say an rpg, by pressing F1 a thousand times and then getting a screen saying "You've won!" would you do that and criticise the game, or say "that's boring, I'll play it properly?

ahahah funny

[f1dave]

So stop hitting continue over and over. It's an exploit. If you could win a different type of game, say an rpg, by pressing F1 a thousand times and then getting a screen saying "You've won!" would you do that and criticise the game, or say "that's boring, I'll play it properly?

No, I wouldn't say that, I'd say "****, that's a pretty crap game".

Do you think you could win Super Mario Bros. by just walking from left to right and never hitting jump?

[Erimus1876]

If you're finding it too easy try the following...

• Use the default tactics - don't even tweak them!
  
• Set match preperation to None and No Focus for your entire season and pre-season.
  
• Let your assistant do media and pre-match team talks.
  
• Optional - Don't use the pay in installments option to buy players you can't really afford.
  
• Optional - Use LLM rules whether you're a lower league team or not.
  Optional (for your sanity if nothing else) Stop listening to those who say being a crap team = a challenge.
  

And for the millionth time, it doesn't matter if you're a good team or a poor team, the challenge should be there for either. For those thinking being a poor team automatically equals a challenge please read post #80, or other peoples experiences in the numerous other "its too easy" posts.

I'm glad some people are finding it challenging, it gives me hope the game isn't drastically flawed and it may be just a one off where people breeze through a season with very poor teams, hopefully PaulC will continue looking into it and come up with a solution or put this argument to bed once and for all if SI find nothing wrong, or if there's nothing they can do about it in this years game.

[nik33]

One thing I had thought of is making positive team talk responses a lot harder to get if the manager's reputation is far below that of the player. This obviously would have more effects on people managing top teams than in lower leagues. Maybe some tweak that can be made for an update for this game, we will see.

This would be nice.

If you're finding it too easy try the following...

[1]Use the default tactics - don't even tweak them!

[2]Set match preperation to None and No Focus for your entire season and pre-season.

[3]Let your assistant do media and pre-match team talks.

[4]Optional - Don't use the pay in installments option to buy players you can't really afford.

[5]Optional - Use LLM rules whether you're a lower league team or not.

Optional (for your sanity if nothing else) Stop listening to those who say being a crap team = a challenge.

1,2,3 This is what a manager does irl, why play FM then?

4. Players should use the installments to a max of 12 or 24, not repay the other team in 3 years, there are very few cases irl of that.

[Pete S]

This is a really hard balance for SI to get right, to be honest. Personally, I think this is the easiest version to play out of the box since CM02 but I have found the game generally very easy since FM10. Indeed, since then, I only ever get a poor result if one of my players is "nervous" during the game , at which point my whole team continues to play brilliantly but is not allowed to score on most occasions - not very realistic IMO.

What makes FM12 ever easier for me is the increased control over player motivation and control, which others have also commented on in this thread. However, I do think that the increased control in itself is more realistic - I just don't think the affect on results is realistic. What I would like to see in future versions or patches are the following changes:

- all player interaction having less effect on player motivation and match performance/results, as I still think the balance is wrong and unrealistic at the moment.

- the effect of player motivation more clearly and directly affecting individual performance, rather than team performance. As I stated earlier, I find that one nervous defender affects my srikers ability to score CCCs, which doesn't seem right. What should happen is that the individual should make more mistakes in this situation and his nerves should only affect other team member performance if the nervous player is highly influential to the team or the other players have low mental stats. This is not the case at the moment.

- More consistency and linkage between player personality and motivation. At the moment, I find it baffling that highly professional players with great all round mental stats (checked with FMRTE) are just as likely to get nervous as players with poor mental stats in situations where this is very unlikely to happen e.g. run of the mill games with little at stake (complacent maybe but not nervous surely?) Through experimentation and restarting of games, I have even found that putting a different substitute on the bench can affect individual player motivation during matches, even when using the same tactics and team talks in the same match against the same opposition e.g. player x with be "motivated" if substitute y is on the bench but may start a match nervous if substitute z is on the bench. In the former scenario, I will have a poor result and in the latter a good one. I don't know if other people have experienced this but it doesn't seem right to me. I also appreciate that some have theorised that player nervousness is down to tactical issues but my own experience would suggest that this is not the whole picture.

Overall, though, I think FM12 is the best game out of the box that I can remember from SI, so I think they deserve a great deal of credit for that and I am really enjoying it. The only frustrating issue I have at the moment is that the game is running a little slowly on my (relatively new and high spec) PC and I am not using that many leagues or players. Maybe I am just too hard to please!

[Pete S]

This is a really hard balance for SI to get right, to be honest. Personally, I think this is the easiest version to play out of the box since CM02 but I have found the game generally very easy since FM10. Indeed, since then, I only ever get a poor result if one of my players is "nervous" during the game , at which point my whole team continues to play brilliantly but is not allowed to score on most occasions - not very realistic IMO.

What makes FM12 ever easier for me is the increased control over player motivation and control, which others have also commented on in this thread. However, I do think that the increased control in itself is more realistic - I just don't think the affect on results is realistic. What I would like to see in future versions or patches are the following changes:

- all player interaction having less effect on player motivation and match performance/results, as I still think the balance is wrong and unrealistic at the moment.

- the effect of player motivation more clearly and directly affecting individual performance, rather than team performance. As I stated earlier, I find that one nervous defender affects my srikers ability to score CCCs, which doesn't seem right. What should happen is that the individual should make more mistakes in this situation and his nerves should only affect other team member performance if the nervous player is highly influential to the team or the other players have low mental stats. This is not the case at the moment.

- More consistency and linkage between player personality and motivation. At the moment, I find it baffling that highly professional players with great all round mental stats (checked with FMRTE) are just as likely to get nervous as players with poor mental stats in situations where this is very unlikely to happen e.g. run of the mill games with little at stake (complacent maybe but not nervous surely?) Through experimentation and restarting of games, I have even found that putting a different substitute on the bench can affect individual player motivation during matches, even when using the same tactics and team talks in the same match against the same opposition e.g. player x with be "motivated" if substitute y is on the bench but may start a match nervous if substitute z is on the bench. In the former scenario, I will have a poor result and in the latter a good one. I don't know if other people have experienced this but it doesn't seem right to me. I also appreciate that some have theorised that player nervousness is down to tactical issues but my own experience would suggest that this is not the whole picture.

Overall, though, I think FM12 is the best game out of the box that I can remember from SI, so I think they deserve a great deal of credit for that and I am really enjoying it. The only frustrating issue I have at the moment is that the game is running a little slowly on my (relatively new and high spec) PC and I am not using that many leagues or players. Maybe I am just too hard to please!

"player x with be "motivated" if substitute y is on the bench but may start a match nervous if substitute z is on the bench. In the former scenario, I will have a poor result and in the latter a good one". Sorry, Meant to say good result in former and poor result in latter, of course.

[grep]

The increased easiness of the game is due to smart phones and console boys getting more and more.

PC guys loved the efforts while playing and successes were more enjoyed . Console guys prefer arcade inclined games, they do not bother with mind approach and they prefer a nice explosion to an old style thinking.

I am still convinced that few nice missiles to equip players or few flash backs bonus will be into FM13.

[Erimus1876]

This would be nice.

1,2,3 This is what a manager does irl, why play FM then?

4. Players should use the installments to a max of 12 or 24, not repay the other team in 3 years, there are very few cases irl of that.

Its a game, not real life. Games should be fun AND challenging imho. The fact that FM isn't challenging to some players this year is the problem, hence the reason some of us are testing different ways to try and it make it a bit more challenging by adopting a few personal rules and avoiding suspect features that may be unbalanced. Until SI sort it out, or say there's nothing wrong or can be done, try these, because simply being a poor team is not always the answer - as has been pointed out so many times its not even funny anymore.

[NUFCAlex]

Warning: The game will be slow taking anything from 20 minutes to over an hour to process the weekend results so have a good book handy.

you will find that the game difficulty will more reflect real life, especially in the continental competitions; no more winning the champions league every year

Thats because you will never get through a full season at that rate!

[SazoJohnno]

Liverpool being a underdog? Never! I am 2nd with Liverpool 30 games in. The table look how it could look in end of the season. Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal.

[speedas]

I'm looking into the examples that have been sent to me, but there are a lot of people very happy with the difficulty level so for us to make changes to morale/team talks/etc is a dangerous game. Besides, I havent found anything remotely resembling a smoking gun. I think some of you are just pretty good at the game

One thing I had thought of is making positive team talk responses a lot harder to get if the manager's reputation is far below that of the player. This obviously would have more effects on people managing top teams than in lower leagues. Maybe some tweak that can be made for an update for this game, we will see.

Long term I want to improve AI manager team and tactics selection somewhat. But that's an ever ongoing process really!

Good idea even if i thought it's already in FM, strange.

But keep the fact that the problem is real, FM difficulty is too unbalanced for too people.

Waiting a true evolution of AI, why don't create a simple option improving the average ratings of AI coachs (real and future regens) ?

[NUFCAlex]

So far I am finding it fairly easy i developed a 4-4-2 tactic with advanced wingers and havnt really touched it since the start of the season. I am sitting top of the blue square north 13 points clear of halifax or whoever is second (i'm not even paying attention because i'm fairly sure i wont be caught) i have 2 games in hand due to sucess in FA trophy and postponed games and still a massive 13 points clear! The best (or worst) part is i'm not even half way through the season and i'm getting the feeling i have already won the league.

My team is Eastwood Town and the expected finish is mid table somewhere only signed a few good frees that were recommended by scouts, who have crap scouting ability by the way. My two strikers are scoring for fun and i get at least 2 goals per game with my biggest win being 7-1 but have had more than a few 4-0's and 5-0's. Also as many people have previously said, I am not by any means an FM master, usually enjoying mild successes in previous versions but never ripping through the leagues or winning back to back titles or anything near it.

Definately seems easier to me anyway.

[mvp]

If you're finding it too easy try the following...

• Use the default tactics - don't even tweak them!
  
• Set match preperation to None and No Focus for your entire season and pre-season.
  
• Let your assistant do media and pre-match team talks.
  
• Optional - Don't use the pay in installments option to buy players you can't really afford.
  
• Optional - Use LLM rules whether you're a lower league team or not.
  Optional (for your sanity if nothing else) Stop listening to those who say being a crap team = a challenge.
  

And for the millionth time, it doesn't matter if you're a good team or a poor team, the challenge should be there for either. For those thinking being a poor team automatically equals a challenge please read post #80, or other peoples experiences in the numerous other "its too easy" posts.

I'm glad some people are finding it challenging, it gives me hope the game isn't drastically flawed and it may be just a one off where people breeze through a season with very poor teams, hopefully PaulC will continue looking into it and come up with a solution or put this argument to bed once and for all if SI find nothing wrong, or if there's nothing they can do about it in this years game.

I play FM11 instead. Much easier than dropping game features. I will just skip FM12 this year, or get it once it has been patched. If that happens, which according to PaulC dosent seem likely, as apparently many people find this challenging. I fail to understand how this can be challenging though. My views are of course entierly based on the demo.

Regarding your last suggestion, I fear that may be too late, between grep trolling and those people posting, i am slowly going insane.

[PaulC]

I think if there is to be a change to the "difficulty" for a steam update - it would have to be in terms of player morale and motivation when managed by someone with a significantly lower reputation than themselves. So those wanting a harder game would start with a lower reputation eg "Sunday League". This shouldn't result in any real change for managers who are managing teams of a similar reputation to their own or for managers in charge at lower levels.

[SeanNUFC]

I think if there is to be a change to the "difficulty" for a steam update - it would have to be in terms of player morale and motivation when managed by someone with a significantly lower reputation than themselves. So those wanting a harder game would start with a lower reputation eg "Sunday League". This shouldn't result in any real change for managers who are managing teams of a similar reputation to their own or for managers in charge at lower levels.

Sounds like a good idea if i understand you correctly.

[Romanista.]

I think if there is to be a change to the "difficulty" for a steam update - it would have to be in terms of player morale and motivation when managed by someone with a significantly lower reputation than themselves. So those wanting a harder game would start with a lower reputation eg "Sunday League". This shouldn't result in any real change for managers who are managing teams of a similar reputation to their own or for managers in charge at lower levels.

so what in 2 years when your rep improves? if SI are going to fix something, at least fix it right. they have been doing this for years. this laziness and band-aid fixing will not work for many more years.

[Erimus1876]

so what in 2 years when your rep improves? if SI are going to fix something, at least fix it right. they have been doing this for years. this laziness and band-aid fixing will not work for many more years.

I agree. Allow us an option to fix our rep at Sunday League, no matter what we achieve in game. No point in setting rep to Sunday League if it raises to a point where we're back at square one

[Erimus1876]

just an addition to making things more difficult.

This has already been suggested and i was using it in last FM, works fine with me.

As i understand the biggest issue is that we, human players. are able to search and find almost perfect player for any position/role due to exact attributes we get from player info screen.

Now, imagine if atributes were not so exact but blurred. For example if you dont see the number for each category but just the coloured bar.

Red for attributes 17-20

Green 13-16

orange 9-12

yellow 1-8

someone made the skin with this last year and for me it made the game much better.

This was mentioned on here last year. Another good idea imho. Although it seems SI has at least given us the option to hide attributes on most panels in FM12 so those of us who like playing blind to attributes don't have to edit skins this year

[Äktsjon Männ]

I agree. Allow us an option to fix our rep at Sunday League, no matter what we achieve in game. No point in setting rep to Sunday League if it raises to a point where we're back at square one

That's not what I'd call 'fixing it right'. Since it's only making the game ignore your input instead of making the AI more challenging which is what should be happening.

[upthetoon]

I think the problem is, SI has developed a very sophisticated game with plenty of tactical tweaks. All these stuff we as humans are superior in understanding and adapting to changes.

But over the years as SI develops the game, i think SI has largely forgotten developing the AI. So the AI can't catch up with the advancement of our game.

[Erimus1876]

That's not what I'd call 'fixing it right'. Since it's only making the game ignore your input instead of making the AI more challenging which is what should be happening.

I agree, but fixing it right may be too big a task for this years game. Maybe its too late, I don't know? A steam hot-fix patch doing what PaulC mentioned would be a short term fix. Hopefully a more challenging AI will be something to look forward to for FM13.

[Goose54]

I think if there is to be a change to the "difficulty" for a steam update - it would have to be in terms of player morale and motivation when managed by someone with a significantly lower reputation than themselves. So those wanting a harder game would start with a lower reputation eg "Sunday League". This shouldn't result in any real change for managers who are managing teams of a similar reputation to their own or for managers in charge at lower levels.

I've started all my games as sunday league rep and its still way to easy, i only avoid gettting job offers from top teams, so that would be a welcome change to make it harder.

[upthetoon]

Someone mentioned in another thread and i find it quite true.

I think the peak enjoyment of FM is in the first 10 years in the game. Beyond that when all the regens come into play, FM becomes too unrealistic as human managers will be far superior. So start as Sunday League footballer for a challenge, play 10 years and start a new game again.