Joshyboy1984 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I think it's close and going forward Henderson gets the nod for me and I'd be happy with a Gerrard/Lucas/Henderson being our first choice midfield next season. But for tomorrow night, Adam gets the nod because of the way he's performed in the games against the top clubs. His best games have come against United and Chelsea. A pattern which emerged last season as well - his best games for Blackpool were against the top sides (both United games, both games against us, Chelsea and City at home as well fwir). His value goes up the more you have to revert hitting better sides on the break. Plus, he's just more likely to create something from nothing at the mo ala the cross for Carroll at Wolves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I think it's close and going forward Henderson gets the nod for me and I'd be happy with a Gerrard/Lucas/Henderson being our first choice midfield next season. But for tomorrow night, Adam gets the nod because of the way he's performed in the games against the top clubs. His best games have come against United and Chelsea. A pattern which emerged last season as well - his best games for Blackpool were against the top sides (both United games, both games against us, Chelsea and City at home as well fwir). His value goes up the more you have to revert hitting better sides on the break. Plus, he's just more likely to create something from nothing at the mo ala the cross for Carroll at Wolves. Can't tackle for **** and gets outdone when coming up against tactically gifted players. Hence his red card at Spurs earlier in the season. Would prefer spearing and Gerrard anyday Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If Carroll gets dropped after his last two games it'd be a travesty. Give the man some confidence with a decent run, play Suarez off him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Will knock him confidence wise if he does get dropped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorg Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 A great stat ahead of the game tomorrow: Jamie Carragher has scored as many Premier League goals for Tottenham as he has for Liverpool in his career. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 How many goals? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudester Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Which is why he stays firmly on the bench. Doesn't Dirk have a habit for goals against spurs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorg Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 On wikipedia it says he has scored 5 goals for Liverpool. He can't have scored that many own goals against Spurs?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Bloody hell, he's lethal - wouldn't even risk him on the bench Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorg Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Actually, that might not be Premier League goals so it could be something like 2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 i think Spurs are just too good for Carroll to be much of a threat, I'd happily see him start on the bench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Can't agree with that. Spurs not as good as United and he wasn't poor there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 he was hardly spectacular either. think Carroll is getting way too much credit for putting in okay performances after so many poor ones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Yea, not like he setup the winning goal or anything. Can't expect that from a striker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Haven't even been okay performances, he's still been utterly dire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Yea, not like he setup the winning goal or anything. Can't expect that from a striker. Yeah, I was gonna judge him over 90mins rather than 1 play. A striker is always gonna end up producing something eventually, that doesn't make them worth playing over someone else. I mean Carroll only flicked on the ball, kuyt scored, so hey, let's play him instead right? in the same way that Adam was pretty rubbish against Wolves despite getting two assists. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'll settle for 90 minutes of shitness if he produces a winning goal every match, thanks. Laughable how anyone can suggest he's been dire over the last two matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 right, but if someone only produces one moment in a game, what's the chance he's gonna produce one in the next one? Carroll is far from guaranteed to do anything useful in the next game, just because he did one thing in another one. e Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'll settle for 90 minutes of shitness if he produces a winning goal every match So if he's bad for 90 minutes, that doesn't mean he's dire? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 So if he's bad for 90 minutes, that doesn't mean he's dire? How has he been dire? He has led the line very well recently. Great finish against Wolves, caused the Mancs all sorts of problems! I'd deffo start him tomorrow, he deserves it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 he was hardly spectacular either. think Carroll is getting way too much credit for putting in okay performances after so many poor ones If Carroll plays like he has the last two games for the rest of the season, Id be extremely happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshyboy1984 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'd be baffled if he was dropped. Even if you thought his last two games were just "okay" (and I thought he was better than that against Wolves) surely you want to see that improvement continue to "good"? Reckon it'd be crushing for him if you benched him now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I wouldn't. I won't be hating on him quite as much as I do atm, but I'd hardly be happy with him. Would probably still want him out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshyboy1984 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Are you talking about Carroll or Adam there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 You could use it for both I don't think its an outrageous claim to say neither are good enough to be here. At least Carroll has shown a few signs of improvement lately, but he's still a long way short of what we require. Having said that there would be a risk that we set him back if he didn't start tomorrow. I think he will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'd be baffled if he was dropped. Even if you thought his last two games were just "okay" (and I thought he was better than that against Wolves) surely you want to see that improvement continue to "good"? Reckon it'd be crushing for him if you benched him now. Because getting something from the next two games is more important, I don't think him being dropped for spurs would be a major crush to him. I'm sure he's aware his standards haven't been great and that the result is the most important thing right now. and if we are talking about confidence, then I'd say Downing starting is quite important for him. Want to play Bellamy and Suarez, and then it makes sense to play Spearing, Gerrard and Adam or Henderson in midfield. I don't see why that's a slap down for Carroll. He needs to be patient. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshyboy1984 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Can't agree with that really. I think he'll think after scoring against Wolves and putting in a decent performance his place should be safe. Even if it is ideal that players put the team first as all footballers say - they want to play every game. They are self centred. Also, I just don't prefer any of Kuyt, Maxi or Downing to him in current form. King has owned Suarez both times they've met. I kind of want Suarez right, Bellamy left, Carroll up top. But I don't think playing Suarez wide is going to be very popular with anyone. I'd hope it'd pin back Walker and BAE a bit. Louis Saha could make his Tottenham Hotspur debut as Jermain Defoe, Emmanuel Adebayor and Rafael van der Vaart are all injury doubts.Aaron Lennon is struggling with a hamstring problem, while William Gallas and Tom Huddlestone are both out. God, I hope those doubtfuls are out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 nobody's place should be 'safe'. We should be playing a 5 man midfield really I'd say, and if you are only going with 1 up top i'd rather have Suarez Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Pretty amazing really considering people were bitching about performances non stop from that 5-man midfield when Suarez was playing up top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 pretty amazing you can't understand the difference between using such a system and failing miserably against bottom-half teams, when we had neither Gerrard or an on-fire Bellamy in it, and using it against one of the best attacking sides in the league with, i would assume, both those players present. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Guess we both have very different views on what "best attacking sides" are. But you're dreaming if you think suddenly they're going to come to life against better sides, particularly one we lost 4-0 against. You need to stop thinking of instant gratification and start thinking of developing younger players, even if it doesn't bring short-term results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 1) i'm not expecting us to get two players sent off again. generally we do better against top sides, think everyone is aware of that, and as i mentioned, having gerrard and super-bellamy in there will make a difference, hopefully enough. 2) giving carroll a start is not in anyway more important than putting out the best team. i'm hoping henderson starts, and would love to see Shelvey at some point, I am all about developing kids. But if you think giving Carroll a start in one game is more important than going all out for 4th you are crazy. going for 4th this season is absolutely the most important on-the-pitch thing in terms of the long-term success of the club. it is not short-termism. we need to get back in to the CL for the finacial gains and to put us back on at least par with chelsea/arsenal/spurs. I also don't get this idea that if Carroll doesn't get a start tonight he's somehow gonna go back to being awful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 4th this season means bugger all. Really, it does. It doesn't massively suddenly make the team better than if they finished 5th. But ****ing with a young player's confidence by dropping them after they're been playing well when given an opportunity shows you don't have confidence in them, and the end result of that is that it will only perpetuate the "35M flop" myth. Put into perspective, this is no new phenomena - that young players take time to adapt. But the fact remains that for every Steven Gerrard, there's a Mark Kennedy. The result can often be persevering with a player and playing them to build their confidence to allow them to develop into a very good player. Gerrard was talented, but in his first 18 months was fairly horrid (which I believe was down to him being chronically nervous?). But he was kept in the side because of his potential, even at a period when we weren't in the Champions League. Kennedy arrived as the most expensive teenager in football. And was given next to no playing time at all, loaned out and eventually made himself a championship level player. But he definitely had the talent when he was younger, he just didn't get the football he needed. TLDR: Players given football when young can turn into far more valuable assets for the club over a far longer period than a season in the Champions League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboydonegood Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I would like to see Carroll start with Suarez and Bellamy playing off him, with Gerrard, Spearing and Henderson in a midfield 3. Back four picks itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 4th means bugger all? oh my. and yeah, of course the options here are play Carroll or turn him in to the next Kennedy. Nice false dichotomy you've got there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 A few million in the bank, that's it. You're kidding yourself if players are suddenly deciding they'd come or not based on one season of that. I realise your mind is made up on Carroll, so this is a pointless argument unless he turns into Messi - you pretty much said as much when you summed up his last two matches as "okay". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 my mind is made up in that i don't think he's done enough in the last two matches to automatically warrant a start, that doesn't mean i don't think he can't be good for us in the long term, i just think that the notion that dropping him for one game will destroy him is absolutely ridiculous also, a few million? are you serious? how much exactly do you think the CL is worth? (hint: it's more than the real value of andy carroll) and yes, players will be more attracted to the club if we are in the CL. does that apply to every player? no. does it mean it's going to be the swing vote for every player where it does matter? no. does it help? yes, certainly, if only that it shows the club is moving forwards. (p.s. your arguments would hold more weight if you didn't use crazy logical fallacies and make silly baseless assumptions about what others think) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 The group stage revenue for the Champions League this season is: Each of the 32 clubs involved in the group stage will receive a participation bonus of €3.9m. In addition, they will be entitled to a match bonus of €550,000 per match played in the group stage. Performance bonuses will also see €800,000 paid for every win and €400,000 for every draw in the group stage. Other amounts aren't fixed and change based on UEFA revenue and viewing figures/progress in the competition - worth mentioning that progressing out of the group stage itself would be a massive feat for any Dalglish-managed side. So basically, yes, a few million. e: and it's not a baseless assumption - your disdain for Carroll is well documented by yourself in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Plus tv money = at least £20m for group stage and I see no reason we couldn't get out if it My disdain for Carrolls performances so far does not mean I dont think there is a better player in there somewhere. I feel Henderson's haven't been much better but am very excited about his future I should say of Suarez plays on the right and Carroll up front I'd be okay with that, I just can't see it happening, and would much prefer Suarez and three central mids over Carroll, Suarez and just two Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bell Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 You earn a minimum of around £30m for the CL, regardless of progressing to the knockouts or not, thanks to TV money. It's handed out on a country basis too, so you can dive out early on and still get loads of cash because 3 of the last 4 clubs happen to be English so they get the lion share of TV revenue to split 4 ways. We made less reaching the UEFA Cup semis a few years back, then would have just playing the CL group stages. It would represent a minimum 10% increase in revenue for us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 TV revenue is actually split based on viewing figures, not coefficients, so having other clubs from your country do well means jack outside of the four spots, and any extra viewing figures - which I imagine would be negligible compared to normal later rounds. http://www.uefa.com/uefa/management/finance/news/newsid=1676422.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 4th this season means bugger all? Oh dear. Its everything for me this season. Will make everything we're trying to achieve happen in about half the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Select_screen_name: Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Champions league is everything, to be honest. I get what Divinity is saying, but the ability to attract better players would probably mean they'll be looking for Champions league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 This is anfield have tweeted Enrique looks set to miss today's game with hamstring. Adebayour, Defoe, VDV, Lennon, Gallas are big doubts for spurs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Aurelio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Aurelio Against Lennon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Lennon's injured don't worry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudester Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Be Johnson and kelly rb am sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRJ Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Robinson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjaminpeter Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Tbh I'll be chuffed if Kelly's at RB, he'll do a better job against Bale than Johnson would have, imo. Too excited to make any sense today, so all i'm gonna say is COME ON YOU REDS! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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