Corner cheat doesnt make ANY difference!

[bigdunk]

Look, the only thing you really need to know, is that the match is determined properly and fairly. There's no fiddling or fixing or cheating. Your players, playing your tactics are played off against the other teams players and tactics and which ever comes out on top, wins the match (obviously with an element of luck etc). The point at which this calculation is actually done is completely irrelevant as far as you are concerned.

[ricob]

i don't know anything about how the match engine is written, and i don't know anything about this "corner cheat" all i can say is this: in my first season c.samba (cb) scored 18 goals from a corner.. in the second season the corner instructions didn't change but my strikers are scoring a lot more goals.. result: samba has only scored 3 corners so far

[YesYesOhYay]

The game works out the result of the match before it even starts, say 2-1.

this is ture cos me and my mate went on holiday it said that portsmouth struggled to beat villa 2 vs 1 and then when we continued we ended up having to play Villa, and guess what the score was!:

2 vs 1!

[Aldokemp(H)]

Originally posted by B. Stinson:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kevinM182:

The ""corner bug"" isn't cheating

Surly playing football manager is all about clever managment and bringing success to your players and team

Well if you know of a way ofscoring more goals for your team, then doing the corner thing is clever to do.

Being clever doesn't mean it's not a cheat.

One of many definitions of "cheat" is "to violate rules or regulations". And since this game is built to be a simulation, it's rules and regulations are, first and foremost, realistic play. The "corner bug" is a success-bringing exploit, not existent in real life, which means using it is violating the rules of realism(and the game's intended purpose)... therefore, it's a cheat.

Whether it's clever, or should or should not be used is a different story... and is entirely up to each individual. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IF I WAS TO USE A CHEAT I WOULD WANT IT TO WORK WITH ANY TEAM AND AS THIS " CHEAT " OR SMART TACTIC DOESN'T WORK WITH HULL FC I CANT SEE IT CHEATING.

[Hazzydeepy]

Originally posted by razzor363:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> No, that's absolute crap

lol! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL as well! And i mean literally!

[chopper99]

Firstly, the corner exploit is cheating because when set up correctly it exploits the AI's inability to correctly defend certain types of corners. In the first and only season I used this 'exploit' my centre back scored nearly 40 goals in all competitions. So it is cheating but whether a person wants to use it or not is up to them.

The OP is however completely wrong. Although the match is in some ways pre-determined (i.e the calculations for the first part of the match are carried out when you submit your team and tactics) the actual calculations are done in full and everything you've done, including setting up a certain corner routine, is used in those calculations.

However, although I understand how the matches are calculated, there is one thing that puzzles me. We know that when you, the user, makes a change either during the game or at half time the match is re-calculated during the 'Processing' bit and all the changes made are used to re-calculate the rest of the match. But what happens when the AI manager makes a mid game change? There is no 'Processing' action so when are the new calculations done that take into account AI changes?

[bigdunk]

The AI subs and tactical changes are done as part of the original calculation, so there's no need for any recalculation. If you then make tactical changes yourself, the AI manager will respond to your changes during the recalculation after your changes.

[chopper99]

Originally posted by bigdunk:

The AI subs and tactical changes are done as part of the original calculation, so there's no need for any recalculation. If you then make tactical changes yourself, the AI manager will respond to your changes during the recalculation after your changes.

So will this include injuries? Will injuries to AI players be pre-determined in the original calculations and will the change the AI manager makes in regards to this injury also be pre-calculated?

Just for the record I think the way the matches are currently calculated is excellent.

[phnompenhandy]

Originally posted by chopper99:

So will this include injuries? Will injuries to AI players be pre-determined in the original calculations and will the change the AI manager makes in regards to this injury also be pre-calculated?

Yes, all events are pre-calculated until you make a change, then all events are re-calculated.

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

I have noticed that using this corner routines means my strikers score a lot less.

[Wayne\'o]

With out the huge goals scored from corners id be well down the league. my Cb has scored 10 in 17 and a hatrick in 1 game. with out these goals i would of lost or draw 50% of my games

[stevio11]

I think it all depends on the player,I had chris samba score loads for me from corners because I put him on the keeper but when I sold him ,his replacement Tamas only scored half the number and his stats are better than samba's

[Sampa]

In the 10th minute, why dont you switch to a 0-0-10 formation, and watch what happens.

Yes, obviously, then as soon as you hit confirm the game re-calculates the end result and the way the goals go in are pretty random.

I think some people think (would like to believe) this game is more in-depth than it is. IMO of course

And you have just made your own view invalid and contradicted yourself.

If scores are pre-determined before the match, then it wouldn't be "re-calculated" at all during the match.

[Wayne\'o]

i think this game is a bit of a laughing stock to be fair..

am top of league but my strikers score like 1 in 5. my top scorer is a cb 19 goals in 24 games. hes scored a hatrick and 4 goals in 1 game all from corners yet my strikers cant hardly get a shot on target. Im having like 60% of possesion with hardly no key highlights. only way i get highlights is if i use extended then all i see is needless passing that ends up in a corner or a defl;ected shot. It's like a record stuck on replay..

i mean i can beat bolton away from home who qualified for champions league and out play Arsenal at home but lose on penalties but still cant get a striker to score..

Somthing isnt right with the match engine. im top of the league and complaining

[Geordie.Jez]

The game generates depending on your tactics and how and when you change them.

The game does not have a pre-match set scoreline.

[Midge]

Don't cheat - its wrong.

Don't do drugs either - they're bad. Mmkay?

Depends if the drug is beneficial to health though

[Team Franchise 2008]

The corner 'cheat' is in fact not a cheat. There's a reason centrebacks go up for corners, they're usually big strong lads who can head the ball well.

If in real life you had a great corner taker (Beckham) and he's able to put a perfect cross in to a big centre back (Terry) then he is going to score quite a few goals. I have no doubt in my mind that if Beckham had gone to Chelsea instead of Real Madrid (and no, I know he wouldn't and didn't even think about it) that today, John Terry would have scored an absolute bucket load of headers.

Hell, he's scored 16 goals for Chelsea in his career so far as it is.

And he's a centre back.

Who wants to bet the majority of those were headers?

Simply and unlinding point in this argument is, the 'cheat' is putting a great cross into the six yard box and having your best header of the ball challenge the goalkeeper.

That's not cheating.

It's just common sense.

[Wayne\'o]

i think 19 goals in 24 games and 2 hatricks is a little bit over the top to be fair.. i think its odd that the al dont use the same method for corners and score a hatfull. id say it was a flaw in the match engine. its called exsploiting a weakness perhapps.

im not half way threw the season yet. if he plays in 48 games its possible he would score 38 goals from headed corners. not even all the centre backs in the league put together would have that many id guess..

right or wrong it seems a tad odd to me

[Geordie.Jez]

Corner cheat doesn't exist

[angryfmer]

i can only hope to god that this man only plays football manager and doesnt have coaching badges.

Could you imagine the post match team talk?

"its ok boys its already been decided we are going to win 2-1 both goals will come from corners"

erm im not sticking up for anybody

but the original poster said this because this is a game

he obviously knows its not like that in real life

[angryfmer]

Hold on i just realised something...

i knew that the games were calculated before you press play and ...blah blah blah

that explains alot about the match engine when you think about it

when you need a last minute goal

and your players start doing stupid stuff like just booting the ball towards the corner flag even though you do short passing

or how you could get 3 1 v 1s in the last minutes but not score a single one even though your striker has good finishing

maybe its because the game has already calculated from your last sub that there will be no more goals

or maybe im wrong ...

[fettot]

when uscore from corners your attackers seldom score to much couse match engine have a maximum number of goals hardcoded in it

to have a centre defender with jumping 20 scoring 40 means your attackers will score 40 less that seson and one of them will get a pile of assists wich lay the corner. my record is 63 assists in a seson while next best had 7....

[stevio11]

when uscore from corners your attackers seldom score to much couse match engine have a maximum number of goals hardcoded in it

to have a centre defender with jumping 20 scoring 40 means your attackers will score 40 less that seson and one of them will get a pile of assists wich lay the corner. my record is 63 assists in a seson while next best had 7....

Sorry,can't agree with that,Samba scored 15 goals for me but diego and Podolski scored 35 and 23 goals each whwn I was with Bayern Munich.

[warrior11345]

i tried using same tactic same team talk and everything else. i won my first ry 3-1, second try 1-0 and third try 2-1. the game isnt set. it is how u use ur tactics and how u plan ur team talk. thats y it is called football manager. u manage a club and not get controlled by the club.

[radicell]

Can someone link me to the Corner Cheat topic again? The forums were remade and the old links don't work.

[outlaw640]

ITT trolling

[wonderblue]

You're right that the game is calculated before the Kick Off ... BUT as you make changes to tactics and players, it's recalculated.

If you apply the corner "cheat" before the game or during the game, it will still take an affect.

[uusinjsh]

yes, the substitutions and changes make difference

[radicell]

What is the corner cheat?!

[Hazzydeepy]

I believe, radicell that the corner cheat is where you assign a player (or more) in the player instructions to 'challenge keeper'. This will give you an unusual amount of goals and is a known bug (even after 8.0.2. i believe) in FM 08.

[SCIAG]

Corner cheat:

Best header--> Challenge Keeper

Second best-->Near Post Flick on

Third best-->Stand on Far Post

Fourth best--> Attack Ball from Deep

Best corner taker taking inswinging corners, aimed at near post.

All other players--> Stay back

Player on Challenge Keeper can get 40 goals, player on Flick On can get 20, other 2 can get 10.

To the person that claimed there was a goal limit: How come you can score upwards of 40 goals in a match then?

[chopper99]

when uscore from corners your attackers seldom score to much couse match engine have a maximum number of goals hardcoded in it

to have a centre defender with jumping 20 scoring 40 means your attackers will score 40 less that seson and one of them will get a pile of assists wich lay the corner. my record is 63 assists in a seson while next best had 7....

I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish. I've used the corner exploit in the past and had a defender score 30+ goals that season. In the same season my lone striker scored 51 goals and in total my whole team scored a massive amount of goals.

So to say that the games coded so that a team can only score a certain number of goals is ridiculous. If you don't believe me take over the management of your opponents and stick everyone on their team up front with an outfield player in goal and see how many goals you get.

[Drunk Beware]

I think the way the match engine works is fine. Think of this way if your opponent is all over you as would be in real life you need to make changes so that you create more chances. As you don't know what the score is going to be i don't see the problem.

Jeez next someone will want a program to view what the score is before they make any changes.

Oh and the corner cheat works fine i used for around 10 games i think and scored about 13 goals from corners, i hastily changed that.

[llama3]

In the 10th minute, why dont you switch to a 0-0-10 formation, and watch what happens.

Yes, obviously, then as soon as you hit confirm the game re-calculates the end result and the way the goals go in are pretty random.

I think some people think (would like to believe) this game is more in-depth than it is. IMO of course

well if you say its recalculated it cant possibly be just the same end result anyway, utter bull, course it isnt, thats why subs score goals, formation changes work, its football manager not football lottery

[rougess]

if in fact the score is recalculated every time that the user or AI makes a change, and an infinite number of changes can be made, then there is no way that the score can be predetermined, or fixed at any point in the match, because an infinte number of recalculations lead to an infinite amount of different scorelines.

therefore, a game can't be fixed because future events could happen that change the outcome. if a game is truly fixed, then it would not be possible to change the outcome, and if the potential scoreline can always be recalculated / changed, then the game was never "fixed", as there is always room for a different random result. QED

[chopper99]

I think some people are slightly confused about what happens so I'll try and explain it. When you set your tactics, team talks, opposition instructions and then press continue the game calculates what will happen in that match based on everything that you've just done, the players attributes, the tactics, the moral, some luck and everything else that goes into it. At this point it also calculates exactly what the AI is going to do and it will incorperate the fact that you've set players at these positons for corners and the goals you score from these corners will have been calculated before you see them happen. The AI changing tactics after they go a goal down will already have been calculated because you scoring that goal will already have been calculated, you're just seeing the visual representation of calculations that have already been made.

Now, when you make any kind of tactical change these calculations occur all over again. So if you make no changes in the first half everything you see happening will be the representation of what was calculated the minute you pressed continue at the start of the match. If you do make a change the rest of the half will be recalculated at that point and the result of these calculations played out for you. So then at half time you have to do something, even if that something is saying nothing in the team talk, so again the whole second half is calculated taking into account your team talk as well as the opponents. So again, if you make no changes in the second half everything you see in the 2D is what was already calculated at the start of the second half.

This is by no means the same as the game being pre-determined, far from it in fact. When the game does make these calculations it does them for every second of the match and for every second of the match it looks at countless things, including player attributes, and uses these to calculate what will happen during the game. It then does this again every time a change is made. It's no different to it doing it on the fly, i.e for every second of the actual match you're watching the game makes millions of calculations at that moment to determine what will happen in real time. It's just a hell of a lot more efficient and makes a lot more sense for all these calculations to be done a couple of times during a match, ie every time a change is made.

[son_of_sosidge]

Ok, just a quick one really.

The game works out the result of the match before it even starts, say 2-1.

So, what im saying is your team is going to score 2 goals in that particular match no matter if you use the corner cheat or not.

If you are, there is a chance one (or two) of your goals will come from corners, if your not using the cheat, the 2 goals will just come another way.

Agree?

I don't think it is quite this simple. I do believe that there is an element of truth to the game pre-calculating the match result, this is reflected in the pre-match odds. However the calculation is not as strict as "2-1", rather it is home/away win.

Your team selection and tactics must then be made to maximise the opportunity for getting the pre-determined result (or minimise the oppositions chance of getting it), and the corner exploit is one way of doing this. It maximises goal scoring opportunities from corners, and is maybe too effective to be seen as a fair and realistic way to play, certainly the statistics some people claim (30 goals from corners) is beyond what I am comfortable with.

[llama3]

its a ludicrous an idea as that every premier league game in real life is pre-determined by God, in that case, why the hell do we actually give a damn about it? Its not pre-determined, this is why good managers can do amazing things, and those that arent so good and dont like it decide to moan rather than improve

[goldman]

maybe maybe not only the developers know about this

[earmack]

The game is calculated before kick off as far as I know (based on morale, player attributes, team talk press comments etc.etc..), if this is a big deal to you go to tactics (when the game has just started) and add a new free kick taker or something, the game will recalculate.

I've just realised that in my current game the A.I scores OVER HALF its goals from corners (against me), I do believe its actually using the exploit against me which makes me feel stupid for never using it myself ( I'm not really sure what the exploit is so maybe my defence sucks at corners or EVERY team in the league practices corners more than anything else ).

[rakhabbit]

I dont agree that the game is decided before you play. Ive saved a game before and won, the computer then crashed, I reloaded it and lost...

there are a lot of things that influence the result of a match

pre-match media

morale

teamtalks

tactics

the players

the opposition

the weather

LUCK

there will always be an element of randomness, hence you CAN accasionally beat Man-U with Accrington Stanley, but it's not going to happen very often

when you click continue and see the 'calculating' the game is checking through the above and determining the 'most likely' result ... how else do highlights know to appear for an important attacking run that result in a goal/near miss

[NepentheZ]

The matches are calculated up to half time. it can only be calculated to this because changes have to be made and therefore it is recalculated to full-time. only way this changes is if you make changes during the game.

thefore the whole match has been calculated.. SI have confirmed this too.

I would like you to show me exactly where they have confirmed this?

I can 100000000000000000000000000000000% Guarantee that the matches are not calculated at pre defined times.

[jod123]

Ok, just a quick one really.

The game works out the result of the match before it even starts, say 2-1.

So, what im saying is your team is going to score 2 goals in that particular match no matter if you use the corner cheat or not.

If you are, there is a chance one (or two) of your goals will come from corners, if your not using the cheat, the 2 goals will just come another way.

Agree?

I don't know if SI said that matches are predetermined but if they are this still does not make sense as when you change your tactics then the match is going to be recalculated. Tactics is one of the things that it would take into consideration when making the calculations. Isn't it?

NepentheZ - That is one pretty big percentage.

[Althaz]

It's well known and has been confirmed what multiple posters have already stated: When you click "Play" the first time the game runs through a simulation up until half-time. It caluclates every pass, finish, tackle, run, cross, header, refereeing decision and AI tactical adjustment. Player attributes, team talks, form, morale, etc and yes, luck is all taken into account and I would presume that a projected score is decided upon (although seeing as there aren't any 3rd party tools out there that let you know the projected score, this information may not actually be stored but rather calculated as you watch the match, but the difference is naught for the purposes of this discussion). If at any time you adjust your tactics, be that a sub or adjusting the creative freedom of a player up one notch the match is then recalulated to the next break, including everything that was taken into account before and your new tactics. At half time it effectively starts again with the second half calculated just as the first was to give us the final result.

Perhaps at the opening of the match the match you make the wrong team talk and the math says you'll concede a goal from a free kick after a reckless tackle from your defender then concede another as one of your full-backs can't be bothered tracking back allowing the winger to cut inside and shoot under relatively little pressure. However after seeing that your full-back is playing poorly in the opening ten minutes you opt to either sub him off or tell him to play more defensively. Perhaps now he intercepts the player taken down near the area in the previous simulation and dispossesses him, leading to some good build up play and a goal for your team. Morale lifts and the team plays better, eventually scoring again before half-time.

At half-time you make the correct team-talk but opt to play to aggressively whilst the AI decides just to sit back and attempt to hit you on the counter. The match engine calculates that the AI side will furstrate your attackers for space and break away to confront and beat your now threadbare defence and will score two goals, taking the score to 2-2. However after the first goal is scored, you adopt a more patient approach, holding onto the ball, which frustrates the opposition and allows you an opportunity which is then taken, the game finishes uneventfully with the score at 3-1.

This can actually happen and frequently does. If you make the right decision a match which at the start of each half saw the opposition scoring twice and conceding none can be turned into a relatively comfortable victory. That's what this game is all about folks, making the right decisions.

[chopper99]

I would like you to show me exactly where they have confirmed this?

I can 100000000000000000000000000000000% Guarantee that the matches are not calculated at pre defined times.

I think you'll find they are. Every time you see 'Setting up Match' or 'Making Tactical Changes' on the screen then the game is calculating the rest of the match (or the rest of the match up to half time if you're at the start of the game or in the first half).

The only pre-defined times that this happens are at kick off at the start of either half, any other calculations happen when you make a change. I'm 99% certain that this is how this happens but would like to see evidence to the contrary if you can provide it (that's not me being an arse, I'm genuinely interested).

[Nomis07]

I think you'll find they are. Every time you see 'Setting up Match' or 'Making Tactical Changes' on the screen then the game is calculating the rest of the match (or the rest of the match up to half time if you're at the start of the game or in the first half).

The only pre-defined times that this happens are at kick off at the start of either half, any other calculations happen when you make a change. I'm 99% certain that this is how this happens but would like to see evidence to the contrary if you can provide it (that's not me being an arse, I'm genuinely interested).

I always thought the same as Nep, but I have noticed a lot of people saying that it is predetermined recently. Have to say, i'm a bit disappointed by that, but I suppose it's understandable.

[chopper99]

I always thought the same as Nep, but I have noticed a lot of people saying that it is predetermined recently. Have to say, i'm a bit disappointed by that, but I suppose it's understandable.

It's not pre-determined in the way people seem to think. As I said earlier, when it does the calculations it does them in exactly the same way as it would if doing them on the fly. For every second of the match it makes millions of calculations and when it's done this for every second of the half it shows the results of that to you in the form of the match. It would be no different if it was done on the fly, I imagine it's just a lot easier and more processor friendly for it to do all the calculations at the start rather than continuously doing them every second.

[sleepwalkingpolarbear]

People forget the AI can change tactics too, depending on what you do.

[robmontie1965]

What is this corner cheat?

I agree E Ward has scored 23 goals for me with Coventry City in the championship, so it depends on waht players you set where.

[LawsonBRam]

I think it just balances out the fact that it's near impossible to defend set-pieces.