dcarter36 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Share Posted February 6, 2008 I know that this has been discussed before, but I believe this next patch for FM 2008 should have difficulty levels. A lot of people like myself are frustrated how hard it is to win consistently on the game. What do you guys think about this idea? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcarter36 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I know that this has been discussed before, but I believe this next patch for FM 2008 should have difficulty levels. A lot of people like myself are frustrated how hard it is to win consistently on the game. What do you guys think about this idea? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furney89 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 never will happen, not in a retail version nor in a patch personally dont think it should happen anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norville Rodgers Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 There's already difficulty levels. It's easier to win trophies, and build a successful club, with some teams than others. As for preordained difficulty levels, SI have stated ad infinitum (and indeed ad nauseum) that, just like irl, this won't be added to the game anytime soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Even if they were to add difficulty levels (which they almost certainly won't) it wouldn't be in a patch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFC Lloydy Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Why do people seem to have the idea that SI always add new features in patches? I can't remember the last time SI did this (if they ever did). It just isn't sensible to make major changes, especially ones as significant as this suggestion, in a patch. Anyway, won't happen in a patch, won't happen in a new release. Doesn't belong in a game like FM IMO. Although there are ways that alternatives to difficulty levels could be added to the game (some already exist) and they have been discussed before. Suddenly got a feeling of deja vu..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xx2olegendxx Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dcarter36: I know that this has been discussed before, but I believe this next patch for FM 2008 should have difficulty levels. A lot of people like myself are frustrated how hard it is to win consistently on the game. What do you guys think about this idea? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Think they have more than enough to be including in the way of fixes without looking at adding new features. You really cant win either way people cry out about making the game more realistic then complain it's too hard. If being a football manager was so easy we wouldn't all be sat here playing it on a computer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 thnx.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyinuk Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 no Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunga99 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 No thanks, FM should never have difficulty levels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rb Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Difficulty levels is just a silly idea. If you want it easy you go for a bigger club. If you want it harder you down the divisions... Simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Easy Level : Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd Med Level : Southampton, Sheff Utd, Notts Forest Hard : Aldershot, Crawley, Bognor Regis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie MUFC Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skintsaint: Easy Level : Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd Med Level : Southampton, Sheff Utd, Notts Forest Hard : Aldershot, Crawley, Bognor Regis </div></BLOCKQUOTE> WHS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaroq Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Posted 06 February 2008 I know that this has been discussed before, but I believe this next patch for FM 2008 should have difficulty levels. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Its wayyyy too late for that suggestion. In all likelihood, they had a feature-freeze before Christmas, and a code-freeze sometime in January - assuming they're making a patch to reflect the January transfer window. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LFC Lloydy: Why do people seem to have the idea that SI always add new features in patches? I can't remember the last time SI did this (if they ever did). It just isn't sensible to make major changes, especially ones as significant as this suggestion, in a patch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Weren't interfering chairmen first introduced as part of a patch? I remember a lot of people complaining about that... That said, I think the OP can take some heart - SI have typically tweaked and tuned the difficulty from patch to patch. If the consensus were that 8.0.1 is too hard, it would be likely that 8.0.2 would be a little easier .. and vice versa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunk Beware Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Never ever should FM have difficulty levels, leave that for the not so realistic management games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I'm not really bothered about having difficulty levels as I would need to choose hard then (otherwise I'd feel like I was cheating). I would like a choice of 'no sacking' which a lot of people don't like. When I play I always play as the same team. If I get sacked I restart. It would be nice just to carry on although i rarely get sacked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Can someone explain why it is such a bad idea to have difficulty levels? I am sure most people on here, including me, would go on the hardest one but I dont see why we cant have easier levels for other people. It would mean less people coming on here and complaining about AI cheating and things like that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Too much work for too little reward, especially when there are far better ways of helping out users who are struggling with the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff7197 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I don't think the game is too hard. I'm currently playing a cavalier 2-3-5 formation (Back to the olden days!) and I've just won the league with Newcastle. OK, I'm in 2011, but still. My problem has never been the difficulty level, it's the lack of feedback. I hate playing "slider roulette" and trying to find the optimum balance of seemingly random sliders to get your team to play coherently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff7197 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DS: Can someone explain why it is such a bad idea to have difficulty levels? I am sure most people on here, including me, would go on the hardest one but I dont see why we cant have easier levels for other people. It would mean less people coming on here and complaining about AI cheating and things like that </div></BLOCKQUOTE> There ARE difficulty levels. Choosing your level of experience at the start of the game, eg Pro, Semi Pro, International etc is just that. Choose "International" and you get way more time from the board and can attract better players. Choose "Sunday League" and you're really swimming against the tide if you've chosen a big club. However I'm dead against anything where you can choose "Easy" from a dropdown box to make it easier to actually win matches. That's just all wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djht Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skintsaint: Easy Level : Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd Med Level : Southampton, Sheff Utd, Notts Forest Hard : Aldershot, Crawley, Bognor Regis </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Wrong. Lower league opponents are weaker and board expectations are more relaxed. After half a season with Arsenal, Chelsea or Man Utd half of your opponents will start with maximum time wasting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranson52 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Suzie MUFC: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skintsaint: Easy Level : Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd Med Level : Southampton, Sheff Utd, Notts Forest Hard : Aldershot, Crawley, Bognor Regis </div></BLOCKQUOTE> WHS </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Agreed......except in the Hard level, should have Tottenham.....well IRL anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnerfan Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 No. Just like all the other times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffovski Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 No. The game should be made more entertaining and bug-free with every version, that is all. FM 2008 is not that hard. The other side of the coin is people who would like it to be harder because they've already figured out how to enjoy success too quickly. I think SI have the balance just right (easier than a real life manager would have it, but just hard enough for it to be a challenge). And by choosing which team you manage, you can make it easier or harder for yourself, as has been pointed out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper99 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Difficulty levels are one of my absolute least favourite ideas. As it is you can make the game pretty much as easy or as difficult as you want. If you want the game to be really hard you play by strict LLM rules. ON the other side of the coint there are many ways to make the game easier. Your starting reputation has already been mentioned, this makes a big difference. There's also attribute masking, turn this off if you want an easier game. And then there's the editor that comes with the game. Use this to make the players better in the team you plan to control, give that team more money etc. On top of that 3rd party programs such as MiniScout and FMM that can be used at any time to make the game easier. The player can use any combination of the above to lower the difficulty level to what they want, and thats without the option of downloading other peoples tactics and training. It will be a very sad and disappointing day if SI ever do decide to go down the road of difficulty levels, although I'm confident they wont. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djht Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 "Difficulty levels" basically refers to the introduction of different level AI. That's what it means in any other strategy, sports or simulation game. It's not equivalent to anything that already exists in the game. LLM rules are analogous to self-imposed restrictions on allowed strategies. Attribute masking is like the "fog of war" in RTS games. MiniScout and FMM are equivalent to the use of "cheats" in RPGs that give your character extra money or better stats. Basically "difficulty levels" is a feature that exists in virtually every other computer game but does not exist in FM. I don't see how it will be "very sad and disappointing" if SI introduced it other than the fact that it may make FM less unique in that particular respect. It doesn't take away from a gamer's enjoyment of FM. You can still choose the current settings. The only difference is those who find the current game too hard or too easy will be able to have more fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper99 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 You've already pointed out one of my main concerns as to why difficulty levels would be a bad idea: '"Difficulty levels" basically refers to the introduction of different level AI.' So that means that for every difficulty level you would need different AI. That might be easy to do in a linear game but with this type of game it would be very difficult and could lead to many more issues than what are caused by a few people finding the game too hard. On top of that we have to come back to this term 'simulation'. Unlike your average RPG or FPS this game is meant to be as close a simulation of real life as possible. In real life there are no difficulty levels. Of course in real life I wouldn't be manger of Gateshead but you need to draw the line somewhere. My other favourite simulation is the Gran Turismo series. Again no difficulty levels, you either get better at the game when you hit a hard bit, or you don't and you do something else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djht Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99: You've already pointed out one of my main concerns as to why difficulty levels would be a bad idea: '"Difficulty levels" basically refers to the introduction of different level AI.' So that means that for every difficulty level you would need different AI. That might be easy to do in a linear game but with this type of game it would be very difficult and could lead to many more issues than what are caused by a few people finding the game too hard. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> It might be difficult but why not let SI rule it out on that basis rather than speculate on what they can and can't do? <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">On top of that we have to come back to this term 'simulation'. Unlike your average RPG or FPS this game is meant to be as close a simulation of real life as possible. In real life there are no difficulty levels. Of course in real life I wouldn't be manger of Gateshead but you need to draw the line somewhere. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> But difficulty is something that cannot actually be simulated. Only the match engine can be simulated. By that I mean an ai manager will never be as good as a real life manager, and neither can a gamer be as good as professional football manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper99 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by djht: It might be difficult but why not let SI rule it out on that basis rather than speculate on what they can and can't do? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> SI have if I remember correctly already said they have no plans to include difficulty levels. And I'm pretty sure that this is one of the reasons they included for why they wouldn't include them. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But difficulty is something that cannot actually be simulated. Only the match engine can be simulated. By that I mean an ai manager will never be as good as a real life manager, and neither can a gamer be as good as professional football manager. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't quite know where you're going with this. Difficulty can be simulated to a certain extent by making the AI mangers as realistic as possible. If you introduce difficulty levels that basically dumb down the AI managers which difficutly level do you use if you want a 'realistic game'? Is medium the difficulty that's aiming to represent real life managers, or is it the hard difficulty, or the very hard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
homerjnick Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dcarter36: I know that this has been discussed before, but I believe this next patch for FM 2008 should have difficulty levels. A lot of people like myself are frustrated how hard it is to win consistently on the game. What do you guys think about this idea? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Go play CM01-02. Pick a tactic and win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
totti_is_god Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by djht: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skintsaint: Easy Level : Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd Med Level : Southampton, Sheff Utd, Notts Forest Hard : Aldershot, Crawley, Bognor Regis </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Wrong. Lower league opponents are weaker and board expectations are more relaxed. After half a season with Arsenal, Chelsea or Man Utd half of your opponents will start with maximum time wasting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Absolutely right - I'm not in favour of difficulty levels, but the notion that the game simply becomes easier with better teams entirely fails to take expectations into account. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny!! Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Okay. So I also find this gave very hard to grasp. As I haven't played the series long at all. But if we had a "difficulty" system. What would the point of all the success stories be if some people had it on easy, and some people on hard. It would wreak LLM and wreck all the stories that have came out of small teams etc. Even though I struggle that's due to not enough experience. Keep FM the same for Everyone! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 As loads of people have said, there are already implicit difficulty levels. The only problem is if the match engine is so buggy that you have to resort to finding tactics to "beat the match engine" rather than tactics based on actual football, but that is just bug fixing - if the match engine and tactics are football-intuitive rather than based on exploiting bugs then there is no need for difficulty levels. The idea that starting with Chelsea, Manure or Arsenal is easy whereas starting with some lowly club is difficult is way off the mark though. There are clubs at each level that are easier or more difficult, but no sensible comparison between starting in a top division or a low division. Aldershot are top of the Blue Square Prem in real life so if their squad reflects that in FM they aren't going to be all that difficult, relatively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuSS Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 player reputation IS a difficulty system! it affects the jobs you can get, it affects your transfer budget and wage budget, it affects player moral and what they think of you, how hard the team will play for you and how much support the fans will give you. The entire first season can be completely different with the same team depending what reputation you pick! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo-Bongo Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 FM is a game that markets itself on being the most realistic football management simulation available. The second difficulty levels are added, the second the ability to market the game as realistic is lost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex-sKIp_E Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LFC Lloydy: Why do people seem to have the idea that SI always add new features in patches? I can't remember the last time SI did this (if they ever did). It just isn't sensible to make major changes, especially ones as significant as this suggestion, in a patch. Anyway, won't happen in a patch, won't happen in a new release. Doesn't belong in a game like FM IMO. Although there are ways that alternatives to difficulty levels could be added to the game (some already exist) and they have been discussed before. Suddenly got a feeling of deja vu..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE> The Korean League was made playable via a patch But I agree, that this shouldn't be added in a patch..and in fact shouldn't be added at all.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyinuk Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DS: Can someone explain why it is such a bad idea to have difficulty levels? I am sure most people on here, including me, would go on the hardest one but I dont see why we cant have easier levels for other people. It would mean less people coming on here and complaining about AI cheating and things like that </div></BLOCKQUOTE> because the team will have to develop three seperate AI (assuming it's gonna be three levels). and then you will still get requests for adding more level because they find it too easy on medium but too hard on "hard". it's difficult enough to get the AI working propertly with on level already Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yalcin Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 simple: one version that 'evens out' results (realism!) and one version that doesn't Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmenaar Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 What's the fun of winning every game? I don't think someone would play a 20+ season save when he (or she) is winning every game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnerfan Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DS: Can someone explain why it is such a bad idea to have difficulty levels? I am sure most people on here, including me, would go on the hardest one but I dont see why we cant have easier levels for other people. It would mean less people coming on here and complaining about AI cheating and things like that </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Okay, one more time. 1. Different people find different parts of the game "difficult". For many, it's the tactical interface. For some, it's the financial aspect. For others, it's scouting and player acquisition. Yet others struggle with the various forms of interaction (players, media and other managers) and player management. So, which aspect of the game do you want to allow to make "easier"? IIRC, USM had difficulty levels - reflected in the amount of cash you had to work with. But CM/FM has always been more realistic in ascribing varying (and more accurate and realistic) values to each club. 2. Assuming it's the tactical interface, how, exactly would you make it easier? One-size-fits-all tactics? An AI manager programmed to make more mistakes? Opposing players who are less effective than the sum total of their attributes? If tactics are the issue, wouldn't you prefer to have an in-depth tactical guide that explains how specific player attributes translate to performance on the pitch, and how particular tactical approaches fare against other particular tactical approaches? Wouldn't that make you better at the game, and at the same time enhance your enjoyment? 3. Regardless of the aspect of the game you make "easier", it will involve, in essence, as many different game programs as there are levels of difficulty. That has to be both time-consuming and expensive to produce, which translates to higher prices for the game, more chances for bugs to develop, and, most egregious IMHO, time diverted from more worthwhile developments in the game. As has been pointed out elsewhere, there are other ways to make the game "easier". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgantjg Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I have played the game for years and years and I can honestly say that FM08 is too much. I can play it to a reasonable level of success and have won the odd trophy, but winning the league as my favourite team (Everton) without cheating is beyond me. The closest I've come is second, but still miles behind the champions. FM08 sees the top team reach 90+ points every season. My best is 82. I stand by my asertion that almost all people who play the game cheat. ALL of the people like Cleon and the like who post in the tactics threads cheat. If you check their season threads they make random changes pre game that have no reason or consistency, then surprise surprise Sheffield United or Watford are top of the Premier League. How many restarts does that take? Over a hundred? Two hundred? Five hundred? Difficulty levels are not hard to do. All they would have to do is warp the human players team stats so they are better than they are in reality. So a team with ability levels of 100 would be bumped up to 140 and so on. Obviously it would take a bit of testing to get it right, but it wouldn't be difficult at all. It certainly wouldn't require a new AI engine, merely adjustments to the level of various inputs. But as someone pointed out in the thread I started about this subject, we could circumnavigate this entire rock by having a proper ass man. If your ass man came to and whispered in your ear "Dude, the defensive line is deep, drawing them onto us, move the defensive line right up as their strikers are really slow" or "Whoa man, their strikers have pace of 19, your centre back is 43, move to a deep defensive line and zonal marking" it would help those drowning in the sea of sliders. It shouldn't go as far as playing the game for you, but it should show you where you currently losing out most, making you learn how the game works. The current 2d blob-athon shows you nothing but circles having seisures. They could even extend this and have a "Video review session" where the ass man talked you through the previous game and showed you where you went wrong and how you could have made things better. This happens in real life so I can't see why visual features like this are not present. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilliconcarnie Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 The game has built in difficulty. Any introduction of setting a difficulty level on tyhe AI or whatever will actually kill the game. IRL teams have been trying to break into the EPL top four for donkeys but failing to do so. With the exception of chelski and the one-off Everton few seasons back. What we want a game that is as close to RL as possible, as how many of us want to become a premiership manager? And how many will? Difficulty Levels IMHO are a big eff-off NO YOu Want it easy, you play as a top-four team with loads of dosh. Want it hard, play as a team only just promoted to the Blue Square North/South. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnerfan Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I can play it to a reasonable level of success and have won the odd trophy, but winning the league as my favourite team (Everton) without cheating is beyond me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Sounds disgustingly authentic to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnerfan Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by morgantjg: I stand by my asertion that almost all people who play the game cheat. ALL of the people like Cleon and the like who post in the tactics threads cheat. If you check their season threads they make random changes pre game that have no reason or consistency, then surprise surprise Sheffield United or Watford are top of the Premier League. How many restarts does that take? Over a hundred? Two hundred? Five hundred? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> First of all, I don't care if anyone "cheats". You pay your money, it's your game. Enjoy. Second of all, even if you accept that restarting to change a result is "cheating", restarting to study tactical reactions certainly is not. I find it amusing that someone moans about the lack of ability to understand the tactical interface, then turns around and criticizes the methods of the people who do the work necessary to explain it to him. Thirdly, it doesn't take nearly that many restarts. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Difficulty levels are not hard to do. All they would have to do is warp the human players team stats so they are better than they are in reality. So a team with ability levels of 100 would be bumped up to 140 and so on. Obviously it would take a bit of testing to get it right, but it wouldn't be difficult at all. It certainly wouldn't require a new AI engine, merely adjustments to the level of various inputs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Still wouldn't offset incongruent tactical choices. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> But as someone pointed out in the thread I started about this subject, we could circumnavigate this entire rock by having a proper ass man. If your ass man came to and whispered in your ear "Dude, the defensive line is deep, drawing them onto us, move the defensive line right up as their strikers are really slow" or "Whoa man, their strikers have pace of 19, your centre back is 43, move to a deep defensive line and zonal marking" it would help those drowning in the sea of sliders. It shouldn't go as far as playing the game for you, but it should show you where you currently losing out most, making you learn how the game works. The current 2d blob-athon shows you nothing but circles having seisures. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, if you watch the 2-D on extended or full match, you can see an awful lot of what you should be looking for - especially when and how defensive players are being pulled out of position, the main cause of the most infuriating goals against. However, on this point, I agree with you. The way to improve the game experience for the newcomer is not to cheapen the game, but accelerate the learning curve. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> They could even extend this and have a "Video review session" where the ass man talked you through the previous game and showed you where you went wrong and how you could have made things better. This happens in real life so I can't see why visual features like this are not present. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Excellent idea! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norville Rodgers Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote: They could even extend this and have a "Video review session" where the ass man talked you through the previous game and showed you where you went wrong and how you could have made things better. This happens in real life so I can't see why visual features like this are not present. Excellent idea! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Whether people would use it all the time is another matter, and those who didn't would then moan about such a feature, asking if they could turn it off. We've seen this with the team-talks (amazes me how people can't be bothered to do it), but it would be somewhat harder to assign the assistant the task of..... listening to what the assistant has to say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftback in the changing room Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dcarter36: I know that this has been discussed before, but I believe this next patch for FM 2008 should have difficulty levels. A lot of people like myself are frustrated how hard it is to win consistently on the game. What do you guys think about this idea? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> For a start, as has been said before, difficulty levels are a massive undertaking that wouldn't be introduced in a patch. And it's very unlikely that they'll be introduced at all (Scroll down to PaulC's comments) Good grief. I wrote all that over two years ago. Must have been a really boring Christmas! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnerfan Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Norville Rodgers: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote: They could even extend this and have a "Video review session" where the ass man talked you through the previous game and showed you where you went wrong and how you could have made things better. This happens in real life so I can't see why visual features like this are not present. Excellent idea! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Whether people would use it all the time is another matter, and those who didn't would then moan about such a feature, asking if they could turn it off. We've seen this with the team-talks (amazes me how people can't be bothered to do it), but it would be somewhat harder to assign the assistant the task of..... listening to what the assistant has to say. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> It could be another option on the Assistant Manager menu (right under Team Report and above Team Talk feedback). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgantjg Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chilliconcarnie: What we want a game that is as close to RL as possible </div></BLOCKQUOTE> That assumption isn't correct. I respect that Everton not being able to win the league is realistic, but that is not what I want. I want to be able to turn Everton into something more than they are in real life, that is surely the point of the game, the provision of a platform to act out our footballing fantasies? If FM turns into a game where you have to manage Man U, Arsenal or Chelsea to avoid being sacked every other season it will become an utterly depressing game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbaz Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Im very much in the keep it realistic camp . Dont enjoy wininng the league with dross teams like spurs who, lets face it havent won the league for nearly 50 years. I would find it rewarding, to say get then in champions league or win ueffa cup. I think a system such as easier signings and ability to sell players for decent fee might help the fantasy merchants. otherwise maybe go back to subbuteo or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_delf Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 just wondering when this patch/update is ready to download sorry only just joined Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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