Moonshine Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 But I've just seen my first red card for deliberate handball... Is it just me, or is this something that needs improving? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurakUeda Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Nope! It's not just you. There are no outraged players. Like losing it and punch someone in the face, swearing to the referee etc. It is rare IRL, but happens. It is non-existent in FM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis007 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 There are no outraged players. Like losing it and punch someone in the face, swearing to the referee etc.It is rare IRL, but happens. It is non-existent in FM. Isn't that because SI want to "only focus on the positive aspects of modern day football"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Unrealistic . FM is realism - deliberate handball, dissent, fights and the like are realism, and need reintroducing, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
telV7 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I am pretty sure that the OP's point is, that one red card for a deliberate handball over the course of 12 years is unusual, i.e you would expect a few more than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikker Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I've seen a lot of red cards to players smashing their elbows in opponents head. Then there are also the two footed tackle and the professional foul. But they are not that violent off course. Edit: To OP - I don't think I've seen a red card for deliberate handball at all in FM11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Tel - that is my point, but couple with the lack of goalkeeper red cards/injuries (none in 12 years) and the same with fights (none in 12 years) and dissent (one second yellow in 12 years) it needs looking at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DivineOne Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Nope!It's not just you. There are no outraged players. Like losing it and punch someone in the face, swearing to the referee etc. It is rare IRL, but happens. It is non-existent in FM. I believe they got rid of that to avoid getting sued. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkas Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Why again? Sports interactive is against this stuff they want introduce them into a game... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duccio Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I'd certainly welcome the "arse command" back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DivineOne Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Why again? Sports interactive is against this stuff they want introduce them into a game... I don't understand what you're saying. I'd certainly welcome the "arse command" back. Absolutely, even if it works with regens only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faure Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I remember fm99 (or maybe 00) where i just had signed Edgar Davids for ManU. His first match he spit on the ref and was banned for i think 6 months . (i'm not kidding, the commentator-thingy actually said "Davids spits on the referee!" "Davids has been sent off!" Never saw that ever happen again, or something like that . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurakUeda Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Also, I think it was FM09, my keeper made mistakes few times. Handballed a back pass from my defender and handballed outside of the penalty area. Never happened in 2010 and 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noikeee Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I can understand violence not happening in-game due to SI wanting to protect their legal arse, but handballs? There definitely is far too few deliberate handballs in the match engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tissier's Nose Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I've not seen a handball in 14 years of playing - sent off or otherwise.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tissier's Nose Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 If we complain about this though - the first bug on FM12 will be "Too many players getting sent off for deliberate handball, it's SOO unrealistic!" Unless for once they find the right balance BEFORE release.... :-s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperlz Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Ive only seen 1 penalty in 4 seasons given for handball. I'm more concerned that i've only scored 1 goals from a direct freekick in 3 seasons. I have good fk takers too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfacemonkeyman Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Ive only seen 1 penalty in 4 seasons given for handball. I'm more concerned that i've only scored 1 goals from a direct freekick in 3 seasons. I have good fk takers too! Maybe next time you have a free kick you should pick up the ball and throw into the net. The ref might not notice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
442 is dead Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I'd certainly welcome the "arse command" back. The arse command? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzing_hornet Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Maybe next time you have a free kick you should pick up the ball and throw into the net. The ref might not notice. Naaa he'd get sent off for deliberate handball Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLmichiej Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Isn't that because SI want to "only focus on the positive aspects of modern day football"? Afaik SI want this game to be turned into a simulation. This stuff happens, so they should simulate it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcidBurn Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 How unrealistic is it though? I cannot remember many Sunderland players being sent off for deliberate handball in the past 10 or so seasons. Any stats on how many times someone was sent off for this last season in the EPL? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfacemonkeyman Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Afaik SI want this game to be turned into a simulation. This stuff happens, so they should simulate it. A fake SI??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLmichiej Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 @ AcidBurn: we all remember Luis Suarez though, do we? Quarter Final World Cup Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcidBurn Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 @ AcidBurn: we all remember Luis Suarez though, do we? Quarter Final World Cup lol, I can only really remember Suarez and didn't SCholes do it against Zenit in the Euro Super Cup a couple of years a go? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzing_hornet Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 A fake SI??? "afaik" stands for as far as I know. Lol etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Shanahan Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Isn't that because SI want to "only focus on the positive aspects of modern day football"? Legal issues. Allowing the representation of real life people to take part in nasty deeds would be an action potentially suable under defamation laws in the UK. It does leave them open to potential big money losses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocuous Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I remember back in the day when you'd see players sent off for violent conduct. It always seemed to happen during throw-ins that a player would just randomly kick-out at another player and get sent off. In fact I remember I once subbed a player on and the first thing he did was kick an opponent and get sent off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew! Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I had an opposition player get sent off for deliberate handball 2 days ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenco Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I had one 'keeper sent off for handball outside the area in FM10, after playing about 40 seasons. Never seen it in FM, or in fact 'keepers being sent off at all. They never even concede penalties, which is pretty ridiculous. But at least it means I can always pick 7 outfield players for my bench, safe in the knowledge that a sub GK is worthless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfacemonkeyman Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 But at least it means I can always pick 7 outfield players for my bench, safe in the knowledge that a sub GK is worthless. Cue one injured goalie next match:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadbloke Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 right. I'm alt-tabbed out of a match (we're 3-1 up, and there's only 15 minutes left) and reading this thread, thinking about how I've never seen some one sent off for handball. I go back to the game to find that Andy Carroll has been sent off for punching the ball into the back of the net from a corner. I'm blaming you lot... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfacemonkeyman Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 right. I'm alt-tabbed out of a match (we're 3-1 up, and there's only 15 minutes left) and reading this thread, thinking about how I've never seen some one sent off for handball. I go back to the game to find that Andy Carroll has been sent off for punching the ball into the back of the net from a corner. I'm blaming you lot... Fine him 2 weeks hay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenco Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Cue one injured goalie next match:D I hope not, it's the ECC Final! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLatics Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 If we complain about this though - the first bug on FM12 will be "Too many players getting sent off for deliberate handball, it's SOO unrealistic!"Unless for once they find the right balance BEFORE release.... :-s Actually, any player being sent off for Deliberate Handball is unrealistic: "A player, substitute or substituted player is dismissed from the field of play and shown the red card if he/she commits any of the following offences: Serious foul play Violent conduct Use of abusive language and/or gestures Spitting at an opponent or any other person Denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper inside his/her own penalty area) Denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick Receiving a second caution (yellow card) in the same match" Unless OP meant DOGSO with hand? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DivineOne Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Unless OP meant DOGSO with hand? That's just nagging. Like there was someone who didn't know what he was talking about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLatics Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 That's just nagging. Like there was someone who didn't know what he was talking about. Sorry - Deliberate Handball means something completely different! Too much time in refereeing circles, I reckon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBKalle Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 If newgens can be "Unsporting" and "Temperamental" why can't they get red cards for diving, elbowing/kicking/punching an opponent, arguing with the ref etc etc? I still maintain SI's fear of lawsuits sounds a bit silly (then why aren't they afraid of players suing as well over some traits/attributes they don't like... or over them getting low CA or Reputation, or over a couple of missed shots/passes/tackles/saves...) but if that's the way they want it, at least give us realism once the oh-so-precious real life players are retired... Seriously, if Balotelli isn't suing SI over his in-game low professionalism/workrate etc (which are accounts of his REAL persona), why should he sue over fictional events in a simulated game? Back OT... the lack of red card for handballs is a non-issue if compared to the lack of red cards to keepers for professional foul/striker dive... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfacemonkeyman Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I hope not, it's the ECC Final! Good luck. Maybe you should put one on the bench for this, just to be safe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC_Jordi Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 How unrealistic is it though?I cannot remember many Sunderland players being sent off for deliberate handball in the past 10 or so seasons. Any stats on how many times someone was sent off for this last season in the EPL? Muzzy Izzet did it for Leicester in 03/04 against Brum I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperlz Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Muzzy Izzet did it for Leicester in 03/04 against Brum I think. i remember izzet doing it for brum against everton in 04/05 at st andrews. I also remember phil neville doing it against lucas in 06/07 i think in the merseyside derby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duccio Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 The arse command? Many game versions ago one could open a certain file in notepad, type in "ARSE" and save the file. Then players within the game would occasionally make obscene gestures to crowd or headbutt other players. Would be quite awesome to see something along those lines happen in 3d view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 The only 'big' handball on the line I've seen in the last two years were Lee Cattermole (not being sent off...) and Luis Suarez. But, I'm refreshed that this topic has picked up on the bigger issues of Goalkeeper red cards/injuries and player violence. Last season, only Jussi Jaskelainen got sent off in the EPL. The season before, Petr Cech and one other. So 1-2 per season is sensible, which gives about a 1 in 8 chance of it happening in a match concerning you. But the amount of people who have seen it is not many at all. GK injuries certainly happen more often... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfacemonkeyman Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 So 1-2 per season is sensible, which gives about a 1 in 8 chance of it happening in a match concerning you. Are sure that's right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Yup. Going off 5 EPL seasons, I think (unless I've missed someone), there have been 7 GK Red cards. Which is 1.4 per season. 20 teams in the league, 1.4 red cards, you have a 1.4/20 chance of it being you. However, you then have to factor in the chance of it happening to an opponent, in the same match, which is the same chance (you play 38 matches, and have a 1.4/20 chance, therefore the addition of the probabilities of it occuring to your opponents during a match with you is 1.4/20), which is equivalent to 2.8/20 chance per season of a GK red card in a match involving you. Call that 3/20, which is 0.15 1/8 is 0.125, so approximately equal. So every 7.5-8 seasons or so, you should, by statistics, see a GK red card in a match you are involved in. Another thing that bugs me is advantages - I often see adavantages forgone in FM, or at least, if advantage is played, no mention of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcidBurn Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I don't think you are working it out right. If a GK has been sent off in one to two matches a season then you have to work out how many matches are played in total by all teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCIAG Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 1/10 chance if you use the figure of 1 a season. More than that gets complicated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Using my figures, I reckon 1/8 GK red card in a match concerning you per season. Even if its 1/10, surely more people should being seing it??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfacemonkeyman Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Isn't it a 1/Very Large Number chance? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
santy001 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 If newgens can be "Unsporting" and "Temperamental" why can't they get red cards for diving, elbowing/kicking/punching an opponent, arguing with the ref etc etc?I still maintain SI's fear of lawsuits sounds a bit silly (then why aren't they afraid of players suing as well over some traits/attributes they don't like... or over them getting low CA or Reputation, or over a couple of missed shots/passes/tackles/saves...) but if that's the way they want it, at least give us realism once the oh-so-precious real life players are retired... Seriously, if Balotelli isn't suing SI over his in-game low professionalism/workrate etc (which are accounts of his REAL persona), why should he sue over fictional events in a simulated game? Back OT... the lack of red card for handballs is a non-issue if compared to the lack of red cards to keepers for professional foul/striker dive... I imagine the researchers are liable for player ratings. Providing accountability that doesn't lie with them ultimately, much like EA use a third party for their stats provided in FIFA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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