Coulthard's Jaw Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Shaking up the front 4 worked for two and a half games then. Not sure what else Wenger can try. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted April 17, 2016 Author Share Posted April 17, 2016 He can try not playing two holding midfielders at home to Palace? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 I just had that feeling today, after about 10 minutes that it was a game we weren't going to win. It was just that oh-so-familiar pattern of pass, pass, pass, moving the ball back deep and inside, recycling it again - and just not enough pace. We don't take people on enough, we don't force gaps, we don't move the ball quickly enough, we don't shut down the danger quickly enough. Pressing is haphazard and inconsistent - try looking at Atletico for how to defend. I admire their combative and abrasive style - they defend with such organisation and commitment. It's their organisation which is the most outstanding. It doesn't matter who is in goal, who plays in defence - they are unbelievable week in week out. We play the ball with so little pace, it leaves an aerial threat like Giroud with no real crosses to attack, and when he does, they are hung up too much and easy pickings for any organised keeper and centre backs. Look at Carroll last week - he peeled off and isolated a full back, because West Ham had men over to occupy the defenders. The crosses were quick enough and he got plenty of job. Welbeck works hard, adds good balance but has to improve his finishing - having said that, if we gave him chances to put away he might just do that. I have nothing to blame Cech for today - he was a touch slow to react, but not much he could do with a shot that good. He's saved us more than enough points this season already. I was annoyed at the subs today - Giroud for Welbeck just slowed the game up. All of a sudden Giroud doesn't fit us much anymore, and I think it's time to consider him at best a squad option now. He's served us well for a few years now, but it's time to move us along. Ramsey is good when he keeps it simply, he could learn from Elneny in that regard actually, but while he never hides when the going gets tough, he just wasn't the right player at that point in the game. We already had the right pair on in central midfield. Walcott's Arsenal career is over, and I am absolutely certain he gets sold in the summer, because he won't displace any of our right midfielders or strikers in the pecking order. Think it's harsh on Campbell, a player who is clearly not world class, but has been a hard worker, and made a difference this season when we've been really short of options, to sit on the bench and not get a chance because Walcott is here. I'm just really really angry tonight. It's just the same defensive deficiences - whoever he plays or buys. It's the same ineffective attacking style of slow possession that has been there for years. It's the same errors from a manager who I had idolized for years, but now just resembles a stubborn man - the very epitome of Einstein's definition of insanity "repeating the same thing expecting different results". I am angry the board have just let this malaise fester in the club, as well as the fact the football soul of our club is gone from the club - Wenger is the last we have left. We have lost Dein, Fiszman, Hill-Wood, Carr, Bracewell-Smith and the others that just oozed the spirit and class of our club. Angry that the fans are split into "pro" and "anti" Wenger and not simply all Arsenal supporters. I am angry that we have no excuse for not spending money on players that can improve us, despite sitting on exorbitant amounts of money - not billionaire money, but everyday people like us for whom a season ticket, or matchday tickets and travel are actually really expensive. I'm angry that we are 7 points worse off than this time last year - a year when everyone has been dropping points for fun and a title was a realistic ambition. I'm angry that I stay up for late kick offs here and watch us at stupid times, and then get up for work knackered the next morning because I don't want to miss the games still - and it is only just dawning on me that frankly the club really don't deserve the following it gets right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHartman71 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Apparently we've won just 3 of our last 12 games in all competitions. Shocking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Apparently we've won just 3 of our last 12 games in all competitions. Shocking. This resembles the 10-11 season run-in. We had 2 wins then, against Blackpool away and Man utd at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Don't fancy our chances of getting 4th as things stand. Luckily West Ham have fallen away, but ManUtd are only 4 behind, Liverpool a bit further back but they have a **** easy run in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayub95 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 The only bottle this team has is for a 4th place scrap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Who does Walcott go to though if he leaves? I don't see who is going to pay big money for him unless it is from China. Maybe West Ham... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamPook Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Ermmm, we are far too inconsistent and will be rotating the kids judging by today's lineup Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.O.V.I Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 the football we've played this season is the worst I have ever seen under Arsene Wenger. Not quite 2006/2007 levels but it's not far off for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I agree blud. Innit fam. you know dat blud. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamPook Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I'm assuming it means bro or something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Not familiar terminology on the mean streets of Singapore, Vam? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I not seen much of Walcott but when you beat Leicester at the power stadium Walcott was going through some form took his goals well and people saying him and Sanchez were playing well together. I know you been knocked out last 16 in champions league but you have played the best team in competition past few years, I know sometimes you should have done better overall but I don't think Wenger deserves abuse like the guy in the video is giving him. Top 4, won a trophy past 2 seasons and have some of the best players in Europe so are people complaining because you don't spend big and only signed 1 outfield player, ticket prices and team has weak mentality or are there other reasons Wenger gets abuse? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 People are complaining because we haven't progressed, we play some of the worst football in the Premier League and the team show the same failings and it's all down to the manager. Why do you think this team has a so-called 'weak mentality'? The club charges sky high prices for tickets and yet have no ambition to actually succeed. We exist solely to finish in the top four and make money for Kroenke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 The reason Arsenal have been knocked out by in the KO round of the Champions League is despite always being seeded in Pot 1 (this year excluded) they keep finishing 2nd which is the fault of Wenger as he it happens too often to be a coincidence & must point to him being lacking in tactics or his ability to prepare his players. The bloke has been living off the back of past success for far too long, whatever happened to only being as good as your last game or even your last season? 2010-2016 Wenger is considered as good as 2000-2006 Wenger by too many people. Edit: Had to check the facts, including the 2007/08 seasons Arsenal have only won their group once & that group included European powerhouses of Olympiacos, Standard Liege & AZ Alkmaar. They're flat track bullies who are unable to hack it at the top table & no, I do not consider the FA Cup to be a major trophy, it's merely historical important & well marketed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Is a bit poor you have not told the group more often. I agree you have under achieved and still don't know why you never sign a dominant centre back and a hard ball winning midfielder. I just feel sorry for Wenger getting abuse like the video above after all he has achieved. Arsenal are level on points with city after the amount of money. Careful what you wish for, look at United and Liverpool I know it's frustrating especially when you pay so much money for a ticket and club doesn't invest in players as much as other rivals but remember where you was before Wenger took over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 Is a bit poor you have not told the group more often. I agree you have under achieved and still don't know why you never sign a dominant centre back and a hard ball winning midfielder. I just feel sorry for Wenger getting abuse like the video above after all he has achieved.Arsenal are level on points with city after the amount of money. Careful what you wish for, look at United and Liverpool I know it's frustrating especially when you pay so much money for a ticket and club doesn't invest in players as much as other rivals but remember where you was before Wenger took over. hahahaha ok Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 They were pretty much where they are now, maybe actually better. Before the Premier League era they had recently won a couple of titles & aside from a couple of mid-table finishes they were always in the leading group. Not sure where the myth that Arsenal were crap before Wenger has come from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 We weren't some Championship club before Wenger came along ffs We won a lot more trophies in the 10 years before Wenger came along than we have in the last 10 years. Don't feel sorry for him, one of the best paid managers in world football but also with the safest job in world football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I'm not saying wenger should stay or go just think he deserves more respect for what he has done for around 20 years and doesn't deserve nasty comments like guy in the video. I agree he comes across stubborn, more he hears he is wrong more he will go against it to try prove he is right but he did get you to the only champions league final in your history and unbeaten through a season and won your first double. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Before 1990 achieving a double was something to be very proud of as it was difficult, Arsenal's last double was in 2001/02 & the other was in double easy street of the 90s There was another manager who stuck around far longer than he should have on the basis that he was once very successful & he even managed to win a pair of European Cups, I do not see Arsenal ever being at risk of a sad relegation like Forest but the similarities are startling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 We weren't some Championship club before Wenger came along ffs We won a lot more trophies in the 10 years before Wenger came along than we have in the last 10 years.Don't feel sorry for him' date=' one of the best paid managers in world football but also with the safest job in world football.[/quote'] Haha I understand he is one of the best paid managers, doesn't spend money, play great football against the games your expected to win but roll over in big games. I think you finished around 9th when he took over from Bruce Rioch and when George graham left I don't recall you winning trophies. Every season I say same thing dominant centre back, hard ball winning midfielder and a striker who can score every other game but you buy players you don't need and that performance at Old Trafford was shocking. I'm just saying he has done a lot and when he does leave I hope he gets good reception rather than cheers of about time you stubborn old man that's most polite way I can put it on here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 WE DON'T NEED A BALL WINNING MIDFIELDER TONY. WE HAVE ONE AND HE'S ****. We finished 5th in the season before Arsene took over btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 That'll be the same George Graham who won 2 league titles (Wenger has 3) & has a very similar 10 year record to Wenger. Edit: Wenger deserves credit for what he's done but in an era where money counts more that it ever had before his record does not trump Graham's, at best he is his equal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 Oh come on. Arsene Wenger has been a much better manager for Arsenal than George Graham. He's failed massively over the past 2 years or so, but everything before that was either good or great from Wenger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 If I were an Arsenal fan it would be the complete lack of ambition coming from the club that would get me more than anything. Chelsea are coming off a poor season and you can guarantee there will be no "we need to get back into the Champions League next season", it'll be "what do we need to do to be challenging for the title again?". Whereas Arsenal and their manager still see 4th place as a successful season. I mean Wenger saying the club is moving in the right direction is just ridiculous, Arsenal haven't 'moved' anywhere for years. They keep repeating the same old failings and mistakes over and over. Spurs and Leicester have overtaken/caught up with them this year, what happens when Man Utd, Chelsea and maybe even Liverpool get their acts together? Without changes Arsenal can kiss goodbye to being a fixture in the top 4. Ha, it feels weird ranting about a club that isn't your own! They're just so damn frustrating though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Wenger has been a much better manager for Arsenal than Graham. You'd have to be obtuse to only measure success in trophies and on the pitch success. It should be clear to everyone that he has transformed the club from a big name which has been quite successful into one of the elite clubs in this country and Europe (ish). Only two clubs have managed that without billionaire owners- Man U and us. It is revisionism of the extreme to not see that Wenger has been an incredible manager for this club even if at times his on the pitch successes have either been over stated or not immediately apparent to the eye. Not sure how it can be the case that Arsenal as a club will be happy with this season. I mean if even the most ardent pro-Wenger people are annoyed by it then it is a big leap to suggest the club is so myopic it won't also be very disappointed with this season whether we finish second, fourth or fifth. Arsenal's problems are pretty clear cut really. We are a bad team. We have a very good squad one of the best in the league if not the best. Wenger however isn't putting them into a position to succeed. Whether it be from the inexplicable approach to building play (Coquelin and Gabriel, really?), to missing our most obvious need (DM??), to not building a squad from which he can pick teams which can function together within his style of play, it is a real mess. There have always been flaws with Wenger's style of management much like there is with nearly every manager however now his judgement calls tend to be wrong in a quite obvious fashion. He will in all likelihood still be manager next season as the club aren't going to push him though they perhaps should. There aren't any obvious candidates available any more and unless this season really falls apart he won't resign. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky9334 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Those contract extension talks with Sanchez and Ozil could be interesting if we don't make top 4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 You're right to say it is wrong to consider onfield success and trophies the only measure of success, but you've gone too far the other way. Bit silly to call us an elite club. We're a big club, but until we start winning the league again we're a big club in the same way Liverpool are a big club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.O.V.I Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Those contract extension talks with Sanchez and Ozil could be interesting if we don't make top 4. Don't think it will be interesting, i think they would both want out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 You're right to say it is wrong to consider onfield success and trophies the only measure of success' date=' but you've gone too far the other way. Bit silly to call us an elite club. We're a big club, but until we start winning the league again we're a big club in the same way Liverpool are a big club.[/quote']We are bigger than Liverpool. Signing Ozil and Alexis showed that. That we were able to sign players of that calibre and reputation separates us from teams like Liverpool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Oh come on. Arsene Wenger has been a much better manager for Arsenal than George Graham.He's failed massively over the past 2 years or so, but everything before that was either good or great from Wenger. Wenger has been a much better manager for Arsenal than Graham. You'd have to be obtuse to only measure success in trophies and on the pitch success. It should be clear to everyone that he has transformed the club from a big name which has been quite successful into one of the elite clubs in this country and Europe (ish). Only two clubs have managed that without billionaire owners- Man U and us. It is revisionism of the extreme to not see that Wenger has been an incredible manager for this club even if at times his on the pitch successes have either been over stated or not immediately apparent to the eye. Not sure how it can be the case that Arsenal as a club will be happy with this season. I mean if even the most ardent pro-Wenger people are annoyed by it then it is a big leap to suggest the club is so myopic it won't also be very disappointed with this season whether we finish second, fourth or fifth. Arsenal's problems are pretty clear cut really. We are a bad team. We have a very good squad one of the best in the league if not the best. Wenger however isn't putting them into a position to succeed. Whether it be from the inexplicable approach to building play (Coquelin and Gabriel, really?), to missing our most obvious need (DM??), to not building a squad from which he can pick teams which can function together within his style of play, it is a real mess. There have always been flaws with Wenger's style of management much like there is with nearly every manager however now his judgement calls tend to be wrong in a quite obvious fashion. He will in all likelihood still be manager next season as the club aren't going to push him though they perhaps should. There aren't any obvious candidates available any more and unless this season really falls apart he won't resign. The last two seasons have been no better or worse than the preceding 8 seasons, flirting with title runs but ultimately found wanting in the league & as a rule also found wanting in Europe? Unfortunately we're unable to compare European records because it was too different & there is of course the English club ban to consider. Edit: Arsene has done great thinks for the club but to say the modernisation is all his doing is probably being a bit unfair on David Dein, could be a coincidence that ceased being consistently serious challengers for major honours after he stepped down from his active involvement. We are bigger than Liverpool. Signing Ozil and Alexis showed that. That we were able to sign players of that calibre and reputation separates us from teams like Liverpool.I think that dynamic might change next season, players like winning managers & Klopp probably has a higher standing in the game than Wenger, players will also talk to other players, would be interesting to know what Sanchez & Özil really say about Arsenal & Wenger to their friends in football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 The last two seasons have been no better or worse than the preceding 8 seasons, flirting with title runs but ultimately found wanting in the league & as a rule also found wanting in Europe?Unfortunately we're unable to compare European records because it was too different & there is of course the English club ban to consider. Edit: Arsene has done great thinks for the club but to say the modernisation is all his doing is probably being a bit unfair on David Dein, could be a coincidence that ceased being consistently serious challengers for major honours after he stepped down from his active involvement. The last two seasons have been worse because quite simply we have had a lot more money to spend. Dein left during 06/07 which was a truly dreadful season. We hit a decline due to a lack of funds rather than due to Dein leaving. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I thought he left the season after the last title, that'll teach me for not going to wiki first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Dein himself credits Wenger extensively with the modernisation. Our decline coincided with having to pay for the stadium with low value sponsorship deals. Graham never had to deal with those sort of financial restrictions. We weren't just deciding not to spend £30million each summer and be happy with 4th. There were serious financial restrictions, it is hardly a surprise that we received new sponsorship deals, or were close to them, and we spent big. Some of Wenger's best work came with that Fabregas team. On Liverpool/Arsenal thing I am not overly convinced if Klopp will make that much difference as ultimately players will move for money and location as well. If they believe Arsenal will decline and fall off the cliff and Liverpool will rise to the top then that changes but not sure many players will be particularly confident in saying that, yet. By all accounts Ozil and Alexis are very happy, in particular the former. May change if we fall outside of the top 4 but the rumours suggest contract negotiations with Ozil are fine. They are just rumours though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 George Graham created his own financial restrictions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Well yeah Also made his squad substantially worse through ineptitude Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Also made his squad substantially worse through ineptitude Sounds familiar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 I don't think our squad is getting worse, which makes our failures all the more frustrating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Our squad has improved a lot over the last 4 seasons. Big part of the anger currently Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHartman71 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Yeah the big issue is that we have the players, the money, the resources that we never had during the poverty years - yet this season we've bottled the title which a poverty club are going to win Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Not sure we have even bottled it. We just weren't good enough despite having superior players and resources than the teams above us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHartman71 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 We were top of the league on New Year's. I'd say we've massively bottled it since then to allow Leicester to gain the amount of points they have on us, despite gaining 3 points by beating them ourselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Not sure we have even bottled it. We just weren't good enough despite having superior players and resources than the teams above us. With Chelsea, Man City & Man Utd all having issues the title was there for the taking, in fact there was a guard of honour waiting to help you see out the second half of the season. Even by your usual standards the choke this season has been impressive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I think the flaws of the team (lack of viable CM pairings and lack of balance in the three behind the striker) have come together to hurt us. We entered the season with one line up which worked, those players became injured and funnily enough it all fell apart. That is not being good enough. This wasn't a mental weakness really, just us being a poor team. It may look like a choke but it isn't. We weren't a good team which were then scared of getting across the line or performing. There hasn't been a mental collapse. We have just fallen to the level we are at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 hmm i'm not so sure, everyone seemed far more confident on the ball during the first half of the season from the game i saw. it's a pity Arsene hasn't got one last Prem title, Leicester heroics aside, it would have been nice to see also 2.05 pts per game in the first 19 down to 1.50 since is massive, regardless of how many injuries you have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I've not read the last page in length but any idea that George Graham matched Arsene Wenger is completely preposterous. My concern is that Wenger is going to hang on too long and potentially reduce his status as a legendary figure of the club's history. I've said it many times already this season - we need a change even if it means a few years of relative struggle. The Invincibles were a group of self-motivators but this lot aren't and Wenger doesn't seem to be able to motivate them to achieve what they should be capable of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I don't think you can say Wenger has been improving the squad AND say that it wasn't a choke this season. The two are mutually exclusive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I've not read the last page in length but any idea that George Graham matched Arsene Wenger is completely preposterous. My concern is that Wenger is going to hang on too long and potentially reduce his status as a legendary figure of the club's history.I've said it many times already this season - we need a change even if it means a few years of relative struggle. The Invincibles were a group of self-motivators but this lot aren't and Wenger doesn't seem to be able to motivate them to achieve what they should be capable of. I was being liberal with that one but Wenger gets too much of a free pass for what is perceived as a great managerial career when in all honesty it very much front loaded when there was only one other show in town (Man Utd) & the last decade has been par, okay, adequate or any other middle of the road adjective & then his direct trophy comparison isn't much better & in 30 years the record books will only show the trophies because nobody will care that he kept finishing 3rd of 4th while nurturing talent that by & large went on to win nothing, in fact his ability to develop young players is starting to become a bit of a myth too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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