The Official England World Cup Thread

[CaptainPlanet]

When people talk about being glad players have retired, are retiring, have been dropped, should be dropped in favour of youth. Players like Cole, Terry, Johnson, Gerrard, Rooney...

We don't have any players who are currently up to that standard apart from possibly Sturridge based on form.

Drop Gerrard and Johnson and what, be even worse for the next year hoping that one of the young replacements can suddenly develop enough to fill their shoes?

As well as not having the experience in the squad for these new young players to learn from?

Dafties.

[jmr]

Young players such as Milner, Lallana or Gerrard?

[skybluedave]

What is the point of starting Lampard?

Last game innit. Fairwell send off etc

[darren1983]

See no issue with giving Lampard a game, been a great servant to the team, and if he's going to retire after the world cup why not give him a send off in a game that means the square root of **** all?

[milnerpoint]

I think it was too late to replace Ox anyway, wasnt it?

What im struggling to understand, if this was the development world cup, and this was just Englands chance to blood younger players for future tournaments, then why have they not played more?

Shaw hasnt played one minute yet.

Jones/Smalling, no minutes

Lallana, fleeting appreances from the bench.

Barkley, see above

I just dont see any real effort to build for the future. Instead Hodgson has stuck with an awful full back pairing of Baines and Johnson who are just not good enough defensively. Cahil and Jags are clearly not good enough together and a front 4 that was never going to succeed due to a complete lack of creativity. Lallana we're told is brilliant, but clearly not good enough to displace a never in form this season Welbeck or the undroppable Rooney. Barkley has at least offered something going forward, when he gets the last 10 minutes and i dont think Sturridge has done anything, except that goal against Italy, which he could hardly miss.

[CaptainPlanet]

i dont think Sturridge has done anything, except that goal against Italy, which he could hardly miss.

Out of our two goals he's scored one, and played a big part in setting up the other. Didn't have many other chances due to aforementioned lack of creativity in midfield. Out of all of the England players he's probably one of only 2 or 3 who can come out with their head held high.

[darren1983]

I think it was too late to replace Ox anyway, wasnt it?

What im struggling to understand, if this was the development world cup, and this was just Englands chance to blood younger players for future tournaments, then why have they not played more?

Shaw hasnt played one minute yet.

Jones/Smalling, no minutes

Lallana, fleeting appreances from the bench.

Barkley, see above

I just dont see any real effort to build for the future. Instead Hodgson has stuck with an awful full back pairing of Baines and Johnson who are just not good enough defensively. Cahil and Jags are clearly not good enough together and a front 4 that was never going to succeed due to a complete lack of creativity. Lallana we're told is brilliant, but clearly not good enough to displace a never in form this season Welbeck or the undroppable Rooney. Barkley has at least offered something going forward, when he gets the last 10 minutes and i dont think Sturridge has done anything, except that goal against Italy, which he could hardly miss.

Because the development is more then just minutes on the pitch, the likes of Jones, Shaw, Barkley, Sterling and to a lesser extent Ox now have real tournament experience (something we always say our young players lack because we don't take youth comps seriously) they all now understand what the pressure is like to be part of a England squad at a tournament, they will have learnt how to spend their down time between games (a key factor in stopping players becoming bored) it's far too early to judge weather this is the right way to do it or not.

[skybluedave]

yeah, Sturridge has done ok at this World Cup

[ringwoodrob]

I think it was too late to replace Ox anyway, wasnt it?

What im struggling to understand, if this was the development world cup, and this was just Englands chance to blood younger players for future tournaments, then why have they not played more?

Shaw hasnt played one minute yet.

Jones/Smalling, no minutes

Lallana, fleeting appreances from the bench.

Barkley, see above

I just dont see any real effort to build for the future. Instead Hodgson has stuck with an awful full back pairing of Baines and Johnson who are just not good enough defensively. Cahil and Jags are clearly not good enough together and a front 4 that was never going to succeed due to a complete lack of creativity. Lallana we're told is brilliant, but clearly not good enough to displace a never in form this season Welbeck or the undroppable Rooney. Barkley has at least offered something going forward, when he gets the last 10 minutes and i dont think Sturridge has done anything, except that goal against Italy, which he could hardly miss.

Yes,only Stirling so far,i feel they wont get full tournament ex until they get a start and see how they handle the pressure,now the only way that will happen is sticking all of them in,in the last game without a couple of ex heads around!

Someone was saying on Sky the other day England missed a chance last year when some of the younger ones in this squad didn't play in an u21 tournament,its this tournament ex they need!

One of my "things" is the England manager should take charge of these u21 tourno's as well,but that another matter:D

[Coulthard's Jaw]

Tournament experience is probably overrated, far more important that over the next 4 years this core of young players we have gets regular top level experience in the PL and CL.

[Bliss Seeker]

See no issue with giving Lampard a game, been a great servant to the team, and if he's going to retire after the world cup why not give him a send off in a game that means the square root of **** all?

Exactly.

Darren, mate, we seem to agree on everything. This is strange.

[milnerpoint]

Out of our two goals he's scored one, and played a big part in setting up the other. Didn't have many other chances due to aforementioned lack of creativity in midfield. Out of all of the England players he's probably one of only 2 or 3 who can come out with their head held high.

Can any of them really come back with their head held high? You lost to a not so brilliant Italy with a 35 year old yet again running the show, and to a less than great Uruguay team who relied on a half fit player to win them the game. I really dont think anyone in the squad can come home with their head held high.

[darren1983]

Exactly.

Darren, mate, we seem to agree on everything. This is strange.

Starting to worry me mate

[milnerpoint]

Because the development is more then just minutes on the pitch, the likes of Jones, Shaw, Barkley, Sterling and to a lesser extent Ox now have real tournament experience (something we always say our young players lack because we don't take youth comps seriously) they all now understand what the pressure is like to be part of a England squad at a tournament, they will have learnt how to spend their down time between games (a key factor in stopping players becoming bored) it's far too early to judge weather this is the right way to do it or not.

They lack playing time in tournaments, not just the being there part. I dont see a lot that any of these players can take away from Brazil except for a few training sessions. They lack experience playing in games that are different to the English domestic season, or the champions league, again i dont see how they have really benefited that much from this World Cup.

[themadsheep2001]

Can any of them really come back with their head held high? You lost to a not so brilliant Italy with a 35 year old yet again running the show, and to a less than great Uruguay team who relied on a half fit player to win them the game. I really dont think anyone in the squad can come home with their head held high.

Not sure if this post is serious. He might be 35, but Pirlo is still one of the best players on the planet. He doesn't suddenly become rubbish because he's 35 Suarez might be half fit, but he is one of the best strikers on the planet, and the kind of striker that only needs a moment to hurt you, and we gave him two.

[jmr]

Not a single player comes back with their "head held high". Some have been less worse than the others, that's about as good as it gets.

[milnerpoint]

Not sure if this post is serious. He might be 35, but Pirlo is still one of the best players on the planet. He doesn't suddenly become rubbish because he's 35 Suarez might be half fit, but he is one of the best strikers on the planet, and the kind of striker that only needs a moment to hurt you, and we gave him two.

And yet Costa Rica had the perfect plan to deal with him, and pulled it off fantastically. Pirlo is absolutely brilliant, but he is not a player you cannot plan against. At 35 he isnt as mobile as he once was and if your smart enough, you can stop him from pulling the strings. My point was a half fit Suarez changed the game, because of two very poor defensive moments, but at the same time, you didnt do enough in either game to win, so again id ask, should any England player really come home with his head held high?

[darren1983]

They lack playing time in tournaments, not just the being there part. I dont see a lot that any of these players can take away from Brazil except for a few training sessions. They lack experience playing in games that are different to the English domestic season, or the champions league, again i dont see how they have really benefited that much from this World Cup.

Because you're looking at it as a black and white issue - minutes played. While minutes played is very important it's not the sole reason for development. Of the 5 players you listed, Shaw, Jones and Smalling haven't played, Shaw will likely play tomorrow, and maybe even Jones will so then it's only Smalling and frankly it's no great loss.

[ringwoodrob]

I think Stirling v Italy did very well,we do have one game to go!

[themadsheep2001]

And yet Costa Rica had the perfect plan to deal with him, and pulled it off fantastically. Pirlo is absolutely brilliant, but he is not a player you cannot plan against. At 35 he isnt as mobile as he once was and if your smart enough, you can stop him from pulling the strings. My point was a half fit Suarez changed the game, because of two very poor defensive moments, but at the same time, you didnt do enough in either game to win, so again id ask, should any England player really come home with his head held high?

I never said they should come back heads held up high, I was talking about the way you seems to dismiss their abilities. You talk about the players, but actually mention costa Rica had a plan. You're actually missing the crucial issue here: game plan and game management.

[Confused Clarity]

Redknapp is now refusing to name names "because it wouldn't be fair on the players". Yeah. Nobody saw that coming!

[themadsheep2001]

Redknapp is now refusing to name names "because it wouldn't be fair on the players". Yeah. Nobody saw that coming!

Haha, predictable

[Astafjevs]

Do you really think it doesn't happen, though? I look at the number of pull-outs in those England squads, and then the miraculous recoveries they make from these injuries a few days later, and do wonder.

I'm not a Harry Redknapp fan, but I think this is being dismissed purely because of who it is.

[themadsheep2001]

Do you really think it doesn't happen, though? I look at the number of pull-outs in those England squads, and then the miraculous recoveries they make from these injuries a few days later, and do wonder.

I'm not a Harry Redknapp fan, but I think this is being dismissed purely because of who it is.

To be fair, he does have a history of talking cobblers, and popping up to grab the headlines. If its true, why not name the players. If he thought it was unfair on the so called spurs players in question, he wouldn't have brought it up publicly in the first place.

[OWLSFAN]

Redknapp in bellend shocker.

No issue with playing Lampard, just because I can't see who the hell the 'young player' is that's missing out by him playing. Other positions sure, but I'm pretty sure we know what James Milner (if he doesn't also play anyway) is by now.

[milnerpoint]

Because naming them would do no one any good, its in the past, whats the point in running a story on players who didnt want to go and play for England in the past?

Redknapp's point was that Englands problems are nothing new, players have not been fully committed to the national side for a while, he just offered an anecdotal story to back his point, the actual players in question are irrelevant, its the fact they didnt want to go thats the issue.

What possible good would come from naming each player one by one other than to deflect the focus from this disaster of a world cup?

[jmr]

I think people want him to name the players because we know he talks complete and utter bollocks and it's more than likely this is another case.

[Lucas]

We then don't pick them? The players will get extra monies from playing for England in quite a few ways and it will hurt their profiles as sportsmen and role models.

Edit = but wouldn't be surprised if it's a non-story.

[OWLSFAN]

How do you know it's in the past? If they're in contention for the current squad, the actual players in question are very relevant.

[milnerpoint]

I think people want him to name the players because we know he talks complete and utter bollocks and it's more than likely this is another case.

Its hardly an unlikely scenario tho. I'm sure it probably did and still does happen with national teams, not just England.

[themadsheep2001]

Because naming them would do no one any good, its in the past, whats the point in running a story on players who didnt want to go and play for England in the past?

Redknapp's point was that Englands problems are nothing new, players have not been fully committed to the national side for a while, he just offered an anecdotal story to back his point, the actual players in question are irrelevant, its the fact they didnt want to go thats the issue.

What possible good would come from naming each player one by one other than to deflect the focus from this disaster of a world cup?

but he didn't back his point in the slightest did he? in fact there isn't anything to this to show its nothing more than Harry talking nonsense yet again, hence name the players. If you say naming then would do no good, then why publicly make the point? How do we know they didn't want to go? Because he said so?

[milnerpoint]

but he didn't back his point in the slightest did he? in fact there isn't anything to this to show its nothing more than Harry talking nonsense yet again, hence name the players. If you say naming then would do no good, then why publicly make the point?

Does he need too? Would England be the only country in the world where players dont pull out of International games with injury, only to be miraculously recovered for their club game the following week? It happens to all nations. I personally think his point was until players take the national team as serious as their club teams, then England have no real chance at these tournaments, his little story was just to back his point of what he has seen, again, the actual players in question dont really matter, i dont think there are any Spurs players outwith Walker even in the reckoning for England right now, are there? Defoe or Dawson would be the only ones i could think of. Redknapp was also asked about the England team, which is where this has come from, he didnt just organise a press conference to tell an anecdotal story.

He could have been talking about Bentley, what good would it do to the world to find out he didnt want to play for England?

[soma]

I read an interview with Stuart Pearce and I think he makes a great point. The article is here for those who haven't seen it:http://talksport.com/football/other-countries-must-look-england-and-laugh-stuart-pearces-damning-verdict-after-uruguay

Obviously this isn't the answer to all of England's problems, there are MANY MANY other issues that have lead us here (standards of youth development, number of foreign players etc) but surely it must be something that can help the players deal with these tournament situations?

[themadsheep2001]

Does he need too? Would England be the only country in the world where players dont pull out of International games with injury, only to be miraculously recovered for their club game the following week? It happens to all nations. I personally think his point was until players take the national team as serious as their club teams, then England have no real chance at these tournaments, his little story was just to back his point of what he has seen, again, the actual players in question dont really matter, i dont think there are any Spurs players outwith Walker even in the reckoning for England right now, are there? Defoe or Dawson would be the only ones i could think of.

He could have been talking about Bentley, what good would it do to the world to find out he didnt want to play for England?

Consdering Harry Redknapp is known for being economical with the truth, yes he does need to name them. But again you are taking his point as gospel, when it isn't even known if its true. so how can you make the point about England players needing to taking it as seriously as club football. who says they don't already? When did this become fact? where is the evidence? Because losing doesn't count as evidence. His little story doesn't back anything, because he didn't actually give it up with any substantsial piece of evidence. The actual players do matter, because we don't even know what he is saying is true. It could be true, but its not known for certain, and the source is known for talking rubbish.

[milnerpoint]

Why would knowing the players help you understand if it was the truth? Do you know each of them well enough personally to be able to tell if he is telling the truth about them?

Again, this would not be unique to England, players pull out of their national sides all the time, surely you guys are aware of that? Is it just because its Redknapp that has made the claim that makes you disbelieve it? What if SAF came out and said a few players in his time didnt want to go away with England, but he refused to name them, would you call ******** on that as well?

[jmr]

I'm sure there are players that didn't want to play for England, I just think it's good to call out Redknapp whenever possible because he talks so much ****.

[milnerpoint]

I'm sure there are players that didn't want to play for England, I just think it's good to call out Redknapp whenever possible because he talks so much ****.

Aye so it is a case of just calling out Redknapp, which is fine because he is a fanny, but i still dont think he has to come out and publicly humiliate any player personally, just because England have had another bad world cup. Your talking about him destroying the career, or at least publicly harming the career of a player, just to fill a few pages in news papers.

Its also more than likely that if he were to name them personally he could find himself in a legal battle, as he could not prove it either way and if he harmed the earning rights of a player it could come back to haunt him, truth of not.

[themadsheep2001]

Why would knowing the players help you understand if it was the truth? Do you know each of them well enough personally to be able to tell if he is telling the truth about them?

Again, this would not be unique to England, players pull out of their national sides all the time, surely you guys are aware of that? Is it just because its Redknapp that has made the claim that makes you disbelieve it? What if SAF came out and said a few players in his time didnt want to go away with England, but he refused to name them, would you call ******** on that as well?

Because then the players themselves would be forced to confront the story. Anyone can chuck out a random story. you don't need to know them personally to know that, what a thoroughly stupid point to make, as we don't know any player or coach personally (yet here you are happy to take his word). Well yes, because he has a habit of making stuff up (such as saying he text Gerrard good luck). when someone routinely makes stuff up, you tend to be sceptical of what they say unless they can back it up, that's kind of the point. No one has said it cant be true, but when someone repeatedly talks nonsense, they have to offer more than another story surely.

[themadsheep2001]

Aye so it is a case of just calling out Redknapp, which is fine because he is a fanny, but i still dont think he has to come out and publicly humiliate any player personally, just because England have had another bad world cup. Your talking about him destroying the career, or at least publicly harming the career of a player, just to fill a few pages in news papers.

Its also more than likely that if he were to name them personally he could find himself in a legal battle, as he could not prove it either way and if he harmed the earning rights of a player it could come back to haunt him, truth of not.

Then he's a fool to make the story public, but that's nothing new. as for harming a career, he's already put virtually every spurs player who had been selected under suspiscion (with the exeception of Defoe as RH interjected and said it couldn't be him as he was devastated) so that ship has sailed

[milnerpoint]

What good would it do if the players had to come out and confront the story? What would the English public gain? Your just looking for someone to flog in public. Hounding guys who were not happy in the past is no way to sort the future of the English national team. Its just scapegoating.

[OWLSFAN]

Think there's been enough that Arry's said before his book, in it, and since, that anything he says needs to be backed up in some way

If Fergie did it? Wouldn't care unless they were current players. People pulling out of their national teams all the time doesn't mean you should ignore what it says about what the mentality of those players would be like when they are playing. As an aside, I'd suspect club managers exaggerating injuries to be a hell of a lot more common than players requesting to be pulled out.

[milnerpoint]

Then he's a fool to make the story public, but that's nothing new.

Of course its nothing new, but again, is he the only guy to ever say that England players were not keen on going away to play for England? I've read that from more managers than just Redknapp, why is there not a clamor for all of them to reveal names?

[themadsheep2001]

What good would it do if the players had to come out and confront the story? What would the English public gain? Your just looking for someone to flog in public. Hounding guys who were not happy in the past is no way to sort the future of the English national team. Its just scapegoating.

Don't talk crap, I'm not looking for anyone to hound. I'm looking see if we can verify one of HR's many tall tales for once.

[milnerpoint]

Well here's another saying it, should we now hound Graham Taylor to name each one?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27975727

[themadsheep2001]

Think there's been enough that Arry's said before his book, in it, and since, that anything he says needs to be backed up in some way

If Fergie did it? Wouldn't care unless they were current players. People pulling out of their national teams all the time doesn't mean you should ignore what it says about what the mentality of those players would be like when they are playing. As an aside, I'd suspect club managers exaggerating injuries to be a hell of a lot more common than players requesting to be pulled out.

That's my point.

Pulling out of a friendly certainly doesn't mean they don't care in an international qualifier/ tournament. As if it was that simple to solve Englands problems

[milnerpoint]

I read an interview with Stuart Pearce and I think he makes a great point. The article is here for those who haven't seen it:http://talksport.com/football/other-countries-must-look-england-and-laugh-stuart-pearces-damning-verdict-after-uruguay

Obviously this isn't the answer to all of England's problems, there are MANY MANY other issues that have lead us here (standards of youth development, number of foreign players etc) but surely it must be something that can help the players deal with these tournament situations?

Pearce makes a great point. Young players need to PLAY tournaments, not just go along for the ride. Young guys for England are not being allowed to go away with the younger teams and are not getting any real experience of dealing with playing at a tournament.

[jmr]

Well here's another saying it, should we now hound Graham Taylor to name each one?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27975727

Nope because Taylor doesn't have a reputation of being a serial bullshitter and any sensible person would know this goes on all the time. I don't think anyone expects Redknapp to name the players, it's more of a "we know what you are, now **** off" type reaction from Steve Gerrard.

[themadsheep2001]

Nope because Taylor doesn't have a reputation of being a serial bullshitter and any sensible person would know this goes on all the time. I don't think anyone expects Redknapp to name the players, it's more of a "we know what you are, now **** off" type reaction from Steve Gerrard.

Can't believe I'm agreeing with you on something. I feel dirty.

[milnerpoint]

Pearce makes a great point. Young players need to PLAY tournaments, not just go along for the ride. Young guys for England are not being allowed to go away with the younger teams and are not getting any real experience of dealing with playing at a tournament.

46 players pulled out of the England squad for the under 20's world cup in Columbia in 2011, that is a big reason why your failing so badly.

[Lucas]

In the end, it's such a ridiculous story being peddled so there's something about England for the pundits to bleat on about anyway when they should be talking about the matches actually taking place at this tournament.

Really not surprising either way, whether Redknapp is talking rubbish or even if it's true. Players should be named if it's true, though it probably doesn't matter as besides not picking them there isn't much that can be done.