A Twelve Step Guide towards Playing FM13 & Understanding the ME

[daylight]

Okay humble pie eating time.

Before I go on how my season went I will say (just because I am stubborn *******) I have no idea how the season would have went if I continued to use the sliders,I did bring in some really nice players,including a striker that has scored 38 goals in 40 games!

Having said that I doubt very much my team would have won the league in their first go in the second division,we did have back to back promotions from the BSS but the second division is a different thing all together,I was going to be chuffed with mid table.

As you will see from the screenshots there is noway I would have been in the position I am without the TC.

I may be a stubborn ******* but I am also man enough to admit my mistakes,wwfan I applaud you!

I tried the TC and I have to say not only is it easier but I honestly have my team playing the way I want them to,I did keep my fullbacks to automatic though

They actually have done brilliant,just what I was hoping they would do,I took your advice and stood off more and well here are the screenshots of how it has went coming to the end of the season.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I will say the best thing is how my team actually work as a unit,it really is great to watch.

It is not all perfect though,there are still moments I am watching maybe 3 of my players and I can only imagine they are lobotomising each other as the ball just stands there waiting for the opposing player to pick it up

Though I have to admit the football is a lot more pleasing on the eye.

I do want to say sorry for you giving you such a hard time in the beginning,It still would have been nice to have all the TC and sliders are useless things out sooner but that is not on your doorstep.

I guess it is the same as when they first removed the arrows we had for tactics,it just takes time for us older players to embrace it and move on with the times

[wwfan]

Good post, just one question though: your point 6. I never used shouts on my tactics (and on previous FM versions). Do I really need to use them to be successfull? Thanks in advance!

Not necessarily to be successful. But I do think they make for a richer experience.

[RTHerringbone]

This thread, in this forum, plus feedback from daylight and others above are the kind of things that can begin to change the somewhat misguided notion pervading General Discussion regarding the ME being broken.

[wwfan]

Okay humble pie eating time.

Before I go on how my season went I will say (just because I am stubborn *******) I have no idea how the season would have went if I continued to use the sliders,I did bring in some really nice players,including a striker that has scored 38 goals in 40 games!

Having said that I doubt very much my team would have won the league in their first go in the second division,we did have back to back promotions from the BSS but the second division is a different thing all together,I was going to be chuffed with mid table.

As you will see from the screenshots there is noway I would have been in the position I am without the TC.

I may be a stubborn ******* but I am also man enough to admit my mistakes,wwfan I applaud you!

I tried the TC and I have to say not only is it easier but I honestly have my team playing the way I want them to,I did keep my fullbacks to automatic though

They actually have done brilliant,just what I was hoping they would do,I took your advice and stood off more and well here are the screenshots of how it has went coming to the end of the season.

Congratulations. No need to eat humble pie. I was standing in your shoes once. We all were.

I will say the best thing is how my team actually work as a unit,it really is great to watch.

Isn't it though.

It is not all perfect though,there are still moments I am watching maybe 3 of my players and I can only imagine they are lobotomising each other as the ball just stands there waiting for the opposing player to pick it up

Though I have to admit the football is a lot more pleasing on the eye.

This is always been my key point. There are ME bugs (as indicated here) and expected bad play through an illogical tactical setup. Distinguishing between the two is vital.

I do want to say sorry for you giving you such a hard time in the beginning,It still would have been nice to have all the TC and sliders are useless things out sooner but that is not on your doorstep.

I guess it is the same as when they first removed the arrows we had for tactics,it just takes time for us older players to embrace it and move on with the times

No worries. The key question, and I don't expect an answer until you are far more experienced in playing around with the TC, is whether you find it more enjoyable thinking about FM tactics in its rather than slider terminology. That was always the long-term goal.

[daylight]

No worries. The key question, and I don't expect an answer until you are far more experienced in playing around with the TC, is whether you find it more enjoyable thinking about FM tactics in its rather than slider terminology. That was always the long-term goal.

Actually I can give you a bit of an answer on that.

I still have 10 games to go but I am already thinking about tinkering with the tactics and setting them up as new,In the past I very rarely set up different tactics.

Years ago I would use my arrows pretty much the same every year.

With the sliders I would set up maybe 2 tactics and adjust the sliders a little for defence and attack.

There seems to be alot more control using the TC,as you said I will learn more as I get more experienced with it,the fact though that I am already thinking what my team could do better in and knowing that I could do it with the TC has me pretty excited

*disclaimer*

You do know that if my last 10 games go to crap and I miss out on promotion I am coming after you,right?

[wwfan]

It would take a massive blow up to lose that league. Possible with a green squad though. If everyone is young, I'd advise keeping the pressure off. If not, then you should be fine.

[daylight]

Possible with a green squad though.

Lol

I have 1 player aged 25 and 1 aged 27,the rest are all 22 and under,I always build my squads like that from lower league and try to bring as many with me through promotions.

Well off to finish the league and hopefully keep hold of my golden striker

[wwfan]

Lol

I have 1 player aged 25 and 1 aged 27,the rest are all 22 and under,I always build my squads like that from lower league and try to bring as many with me through promotions.

Well off to finish the league and hopefully keep hold of my golden striker

What you will find is that, after embracing the TC, other elements of the game will become richer. Knowing you have to win a match within the confines of a fair game world means that keeping your players that bit calmer/more motivated than your title rival through teamtalk and media strategies can be the vital difference. You have three nervous players and snatch a 1-0 win. He has five and draws because one of them made a mistake.

None of this stuff mattered if you exploited an ME hole, as you'd score anyway.

[Spart]

Okay humble pie eating time.

Before I go on how my season went I will say (just because I am stubborn *******) I have no idea how the season would have went if I continued to use the sliders,I did bring in some really nice players,including a striker that has scored 38 goals in 40 games!

Having said that I doubt very much my team would have won the league in their first go in the second division,we did have back to back promotions from the BSS but the second division is a different thing all together,I was going to be chuffed with mid table.

As you will see from the screenshots there is noway I would have been in the position I am without the TC.

I may be a stubborn ******* but I am also man enough to admit my mistakes,wwfan I applaud you!

I tried the TC and I have to say not only is it easier but I honestly have my team playing the way I want them to,I did keep my fullbacks to automatic though

They actually have done brilliant,just what I was hoping they would do,I took your advice and stood off more and well here are the screenshots of how it has went coming to the end of the season.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I will say the best thing is how my team actually work as a unit,it really is great to watch.

It is not all perfect though,there are still moments I am watching maybe 3 of my players and I can only imagine they are lobotomising each other as the ball just stands there waiting for the opposing player to pick it up

Though I have to admit the football is a lot more pleasing on the eye.

I do want to say sorry for you giving you such a hard time in the beginning,It still would have been nice to have all the TC and sliders are useless things out sooner but that is not on your doorstep.

I guess it is the same as when they first removed the arrows we had for tactics,it just takes time for us older players to embrace it and move on with the times

Awesome post and congratulations daylight!

Respect for giving the Tactics Creator a go with an open mind too.

[daylight]

I am just wondering how I show a you tube video here,I have the link and though it was but I am not sure if that is right?

[daylight]

Mah wont matter anyway,

Here is a video of a goal I scored in the very next match after I made my post about the TC.

It is not that special a goal just something I see quite a bit now,the build up play of my team and the hold up play from my CF and then how he gets himself into position for the goal,It is great to be able to see these types of goals on a regular basis instead of mistakes or a 1 pass into the striker sort of thing.

Anyway here is the link.

[RTHerringbone]

It is quite nice though! Is Smith a DLF with Support Duty? Damned effective in 1 striker formations.

[Spart]

Really nice sense of purpose and intent to the play.

[daylight]

Smith is an attacking midfielder on IF duty,I play 2 strikers,1 a poacher and 1 a complete forward along with Smith in the attacking midfield,the complete forward is Dia,you can see him pick it up just after the half way line,he holds it up for a bit and then his movement is great as he gets into the box to score the goal.

I see a lot of these movement type goals,I do play an attacking formation with a 4-3-1-2,since I started to use the TC I see so much more fluid attacking and it is great to see my CF actually drop deeper than the midfield guys to pick the ball up and then move again into space.

[RTHerringbone]

The movement from Dia is great. He jockeys for position along the line and then anticipates a through ball and nips ahead of the marker to score. Really good example of the ME at its best, and a credit to your setup, well done.

[themadsheep2001]

Really well worked goal mate, nice.

[HUNT3R]

That's a brilliantly worked goal. Well done.

[skintsaint]

After getting sacked 6 games in a row on FM13 I have decided to follow this guide down to a tee, because I was having loads of shots to their 1 or 2. And they were scoring while I wasn't. I was also getting loads of own goals against me and injuries

In my first competitive game with Rangers, I have the following stats:

I lost the game 1-0

I had 2 bad injuries

It was an own goal

There is no answer to this, I dominate my games both possesion and CCCs/shots and lose most of the time.

No one has a clue why.

[sealblast]

Does anyone know how to make player play one touch football and not dribble often? currently playing barcelona but most of the players hold the ball even though none are set to do so. sometimes they stop and circle/shield the ball, which either leads to a free kick or lost possession. other times, they will dribble towards the wing/ corner and try to cross in which is not good because everyone in barcelona is short and bad at heading. even messi who is set as deeplying forward as striker does this.

also, how do you prevent players from crossing, be it from the sides or from deep.

my players also do not support each other meaning passes get cut off(midfield has creative freedom and roaming)

[Sgt Kelly]

Mah wont matter anyway,

Here is a video of a goal I scored in the very next match after I made my post about the TC.

It is not that special a goal just something I see quite a bit now,the build up play of my team and the hold up play from my CF and then how he gets himself into position for the goal,It is great to be able to see these types of goals on a regular basis instead of mistakes or a 1 pass into the striker sort of thing.

Anyway here is the link.

When I try to imagine how this goal would be scored in reality I see the goalkeeper diving into feet. Every time.

I guess this is what a lot of people have trouble with. The engine does a great job of showing your team surging forward in numbers and the other team backpedalling and never really getting the situation under control. But then the immersion is broken by the totally unrealistic behaviour of the keeper. It doesn't invalidate the goal as the striker would have a good chance of evading the challenge and putting the ball into the net. However what we see is a player walking the ball into the net past a goalkeeper who appears to be stuck upright and on rails.

This will presumably get better as more animations get added in.

[SPDtrip]

Does anyone know how to make player play one touch football and not dribble often? currently playing barcelona but most of the players hold the ball even though none are set to do so. sometimes they stop and circle/shield the ball, which either leads to a free kick or lost possession. other times, they will dribble towards the wing/ corner and try to cross in which is not good because everyone in barcelona is short and bad at heading. even messi who is set as deeplying forward as striker does this.

also, how do you prevent players from crossing, be it from the sides or from deep.

my players also do not support each other meaning passes get cut off(midfield has creative freedom and roaming)

Off the top of my head I think there's four things you can try to reduce the dribbling. Add one at a time and see if that's enough. You want to balance it out so that it doesn't create other problems.

1 reduce RWB slider for players in question

2 If that isn't enough try reducing creative freedom to force player(s) to follow your instructions.

3 You may want to add to the Tempo slider (try a bit and add as necessary) to get your team to play a bit quicker. It should lead to quicker "snappier" passes. With Barcelona your players should have the technical ability to deal with this tempo adjustment.

4 You could also add the Pass through defense shout as well

Keep in mind that with FM13 currently passing is a bit less accurate than it was in FM12 and by accelerating tempo you might be adding a higher degree of sloppiness to your game. Again, add slowly, test and see what works best. As with all previous games its best to play games in full in order to judge best what you find works and what doesn't.

For the crossing, adjust (reduce) the crossing slider to the players in question.

Hope this helps.

PS: There's a Barcelona thread in the tactics sub forum you may want to check out. It was written for FM12 but much should still apply for FM13.

[daylight]

When I try to imagine how this goal would be scored in reality I see the goalkeeper diving into feet. Every time.

Actually if you watch the clip closely you will see Dia do a little jink just in front of the keeper which leaves the keeper wrong footed,it is something you can see almost every week in football.

I have cleaned up the video a bit so you should be able to see it better.

[CityAndColour]

Movement is quite fascinating at times on this version.

I've got a central midfield three set up, behind an AML/R and a lone striker. My central three, from left to right, are a CM on automatic, an AP on support and a CM on defend. Funnily enough it's the defensive-minded one who has five goals in ten games, four of them from a late run into the box which takes him one on one with the keeper. At first I thought it was odd that it was always the defensive member of the trio that was making these runs, but I watched his goals again and realised it is simply because he is taking advantage of space at his own accord.

My lone striker often pulls wide (he is an advanced forward), which means the opposition's midfield usually concentrates on the play-maker and the more attacking CM. This often leaves a simple run from deep for him into the box, and a pass from a winger or the AP to take advantage of this.

[spiralsecurities]

The off-ball movement and team worked goals are far more prevalent and great to watch in this version of FM. This match engine is great, even with the bugs. There were things I tried to do in previous FMs that simply never worked that work perfect when I do simple things like: make my DM(s) instead of DM(d) so he makes runs, my wingback may dribble inside into space created by a winger and make a pass to cap a score. These things happened with little regularity in the past.

I find that it makes people think far more long term and strategic than in years past. You no longer need 'amazing tactics'; you need smart planning, good man management, understanding of how to make and exploit space, understanding of how to attack an opponent's weaknesses, rotate a squad, train / buy players that fit into your scheme best rather than simply buying 5 star players, etc.

This version of FM more than any other rewards and punishes your decisions on multiple levels rather than making one variable far more important than others. For example, having two strong DLPs with a fast striker and a sound defensive formation and you could afford to screw up your team talks and still win, you could avoid needing multiple angles of attack to break down different teams/defenses, injuries to your non key players could be withstood.

If you are in an away game in terrible weather at Stoke late in the season you have to worry about the pressure on your squad, their confidence, who plays better in the poor weather conditions, how are you going to attack the formation they have, which of their fullbacks and centerbacks are quickest, and on and on. Those things all matter and if you take them into account you will give yourself a far bigger chance to win. You can also have more effect on other teams with mind games, either hurting Stoke or whomever you are battling in the standings.

The distribution of effects of your choices makes it possible to develop a winning management style that you truly depend on, rather than your style just being a flavor. If you focus on work rate, acceleration, anticipation and teamwork I found that a team could press magnificently. Place the same tactic with good players who do not share these attributes and it would flounder. Thats what amazes and makes me happy about this ME.

90's Ferguson - Building through youth, Man Management, Pioneered squad rotation

Mourinho - Tactics, Training methods, Man Management

Bielsa - Different tactical style, emphasizing work rate, stamina, first touch

Guardiola - Tactical style based on first touch, acceleration and intelligence that hid weaknesses through team discipline, building those things through Youth

Those are just examples of how each of these coaches have won. Now it is possible for us to develop our own styles and win, without having to copy another, and most importantly - without needing to rely on a few factors for actual success.

[wwfan]

This thread is why we put our time into writing guides and advice in the tactics forum.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/334313-Going-against-the-Grain-a-journey-from-rage-quit-to-complete-satisfaction

Please read if you are struggling to come to grips with FM. It can happen for each and every one of you.

[siambluebird]

Great thread. Enjoyable read. As one poster pointed out before, sometimes frustration may be born from the graphical representation of the ME rather than the ME itself. I find I feel far more satisfied using 2D classic at the end of a game. I feel I get a better view of my tactics and I do not see some of the animations that create some wariness about the ME.

[wwfan]

Great thread. Enjoyable read. As one poster pointed out before, sometimes frustration may be born from the graphical representation of the ME rather than the ME itself. I find I feel far more satisfied using 2D classic at the end of a game. I feel I get a better view of my tactics and I do not see some of the animations that create some wariness about the ME.

I certainly think we are short of some animations in which a defender tries to block a shot. They are far too static in their movements as a player is about to shoot.

[Dawsey]

Great little thread this.

I really have gone back to basics recently & found I am enjoying the game again.

Got myself a basic 4-4-2 with all settings at default with balanced & standard.

I really am taking on board the KISS principles & have removed playmakers & target men etc.

Also great to have support & attacking roles that complement each other.

The team play how I want them to now which is nice on the eye!

[robterrace]

This thread is why we put our time into writing guides and advice in the tactics forum.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/334313-Going-against-the-Grain-a-journey-from-rage-quit-to-complete-satisfaction

Please read if you are struggling to come to grips with FM. It can happen for each and every one of you.

Indeed so, I've popped up a few times in there, and this video - [video=youtube;MoHRFwTKNH0]

shows what can be achieved by getting your team setup correctly and using a shout to get other things right.

[rahnkanu]

Just wanted to chime in and say THANK YOU to the OP.

On my second season with swansea, started using a TC tactic, opponent instructions, shouts, etc..

Got to the champion's league final! and more importantly i'm having a lot of fun again with the game again, whereas before i was always frustrating myself trying to find the perfect tactic, messing with the sliders for hours and hours!

Cheers!

[wwfan]

Just wanted to chime in and say THANK YOU to the OP.

On my second season with swansea, started using a TC tactic, opponent instructions, shouts, etc..

Got to the champion's league final! and more importantly i'm having a lot of fun again with the game again, whereas before i was always frustrating myself trying to find the perfect tactic, messing with the sliders for hours and hours!

Cheers!

No worries. Glad you are having fun.

[wwfan]

Ok, Im the one who first said that if you play as Arsenal and chose a default formation you should beat Bradford at home 9 times out of ten. Maybe my point was taken to literal. What I mean is, the quality of my players as Arsenal should mean more than my tactic on average. I believe a team like Arsenal, Manu, Chelsea playing a average formation should beat a team like Bradford more often that not IN FOOTBALL MANAGER. In real life, there are many more things a manager can do to insure victory than we can in the game. That is why I feel the default formations and tactics should be enough to pick up and play against weak teams and beat them consistently. Currently, even beating a lower Premier League team is very hard.

Really enjoying that you chose Bradford. Really, really enjoying that you chose Bradford

[jimbobBRFC]

Been months since I last came onto the forums, first post on my return is this beauty. Top quality WWFAM, only briefly skimmed through it but am going to have a proper read tonight.

[wwfan]

Been months since I last came onto the forums, first post on my return is this beauty. Top quality WWFAM, only briefly skimmed through it but am going to have a proper read tonight.

Hopefully you don't need to do much more than skim through it. I was trying to avoid the complexity of my previous guides.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

WWfan, i recently made the following post in another thread:

"Another post that does little to advise how to beat the parked bus. By the way, I do know about the "Control" and "look for the overlap" options but in my experience for about 3 years now getting a positive result is easier against favourites than it is against underdogs. Maybe I and the many others that have experienced this luckily made tactics that overperform against the the former but do not have a clue how to make a tactic that even performs to expectation against the latter, but that is an unlikely scenario. If that is so then it suggests that the tactical advice in the forums (and I do include the T&TF) is somewhat lacking in clarity regarding achieving these odds on results."

Can you please point me in the direction of a reliable thread that can help me please - it is my major non-ME related problem with the game.

Thanks

[BiggusD]

WWfan, i recently made the following post in another thread:

"Another post that does little to advise how to beat the parked bus. By the way, I do know about the "Control" and "look for the overlap" options but in my experience for about 3 years now getting a positive result is easier against favourites than it is against underdogs. Maybe I and the many others that have experienced this luckily made tactics that overperform against the the former but do not have a clue how to make a tactic that even performs to expectation against the latter, but that is an unlikely scenario. If that is so then it suggests that the tactical advice in the forums (and I do include the T&TF) is somewhat lacking in clarity regarding achieving these odds on results."

Can you please point me in the direction of a reliable thread that can help me please - it is my major non-ME related problem with the game.

Thanks

I don't think there is an FM13 guide on how to break down a parked bus. The basic advice would be to make sure there is movement when you go forward, and this is why Overload does not always work. It tells most players to run from deep often and give them attacking mentalities; both settings that make players run at full trot forwards immediately after you gain possession of the ball. Overload also maximizes width, and this could help creating space but at the same time the defensive structure may suffer, causing you to lose control of the match. This goes against the wisdom that you need to be patient against a parked bus. I'd say that if Overload doesn't do anything visible for you, rather the opposite, then it is madness continuing to use it in the hope that it will help you create more chances.

I think the Play Wider shout should be enough added width, and if you for instance play a flat 442, moving the two wide midfielders up to winger positions and increasing the aggressiveness (i.e from FBS to WBA) of your full backs should be enough if you are already using either the Control or Attack style. If you use Standard or Counter and still dominate matches, and going to Control or Attack does not in your experience do much, the Push Up and Hassle Opponents (iirc increase Closing Down) shouts should do the same trick without any knock-ons. What I am saying here is that if you feel that you have created a balanced, good tactic that allows you to be the best team in most matches, then changing the way you play entirely won't necessarily be good for you. You want more of the same, not something else entirely! So create space for yourself - play wider, push higher up, press more, use wingers instead of wide midfielders, add a striker if you have only one, but don't mess with passing, mentalities and forward runs.

The latter there is exceptionally important because I have found that players with RfD set to Often start their runs so early that they remove themselves as passing options unless they get the ball a second or two after you have regained possession of the ball and in the current ME that means they will stay marked out of play until you lose the ball. No wonder Overload doesn't work for everyone!

WWfan should delete this if he disagrees completely or add his own, more TC-oriented comment since I use Classic and am not that overly familiar with TC+shouts.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

I don't think there is an FM13 guide on how to break down a parked bus. The basic advice would be to make sure there is movement when you go forward, and this is why Overload does not always work. It tells most players to run from deep often and give them attacking mentalities; both settings that make players run at full trot forwards immediately after you gain possession of the ball. Overload also maximizes width, and this could help creating space but at the same time the defensive structure may suffer, causing you to lose control of the match. This goes against the wisdom that you need to be patient against a parked bus. I'd say that if Overload doesn't do anything visible for you, rather the opposite, then it is madness continuing to use it in the hope that it will help you create more chances.

I think the Play Wider shout should be enough added width, and if you for instance play a flat 442, moving the two wide midfielders up to winger positions and increasing the aggressiveness (i.e from FBS to WBA) of your full backs should be enough if you are already using either the Control or Attack style. If you use Standard or Counter and still dominate matches, and going to Control or Attack does not in your experience do much, the Push Up and Hassle Opponents (iirc increase Closing Down) shouts should do the same trick without any knock-ons. What I am saying here is that if you feel that you have created a balanced, good tactic that allows you to be the best team in most matches, then changing the way you play entirely won't necessarily be good for you. You want more of the same, not something else entirely! So create space for yourself - play wider, push higher up, press more, use wingers instead of wide midfielders, add a striker if you have only one, but don't mess with passing, mentalities and forward runs.

The latter there is exceptionally important because I have found that players with RfD set to Often start their runs so early that they remove themselves as passing options unless they get the ball a second or two after you have regained possession of the ball and in the current ME that means they will stay marked out of play until you lose the ball. No wonder Overload doesn't work for everyone!

WWfan should delete this if he disagrees completely or add his own, more TC-oriented comment since I use Classic and am not that overly familiar with TC+shouts.

Excellent post, Biggus, a lot of food for thought. I eagerly await wwfans reply. I find it hard to believe that there is no other advice on this as concise and useful as your post elsewhere but I hadnt found any hence my original post. I still feel this is a game "issue" but if I can work around it ("beat" it if you like) then that will be job done. I actually find overload and moreso Control to be pretty useless especially in this scenario but that could be due to other shouts not used or elements of my *tactics (*see foot note) that work against those mentalities. I have to say though that my basic tactics are mostly default for everything and Standard mentality, so that should not be so. I understand that slider tweaking blunts menatlities laid over a tactic.

(*see above) I say "tactics", plural, as all tactics I create suffer the same effect, though to be fair the tactics I have used over 3 years have been very samey.

[THOG]

Excellent post, Biggus, a lot of food for thought. I eagerly await wwfans reply. I find it hard to believe that there is no other advice on this as concise and useful as your post elsewhere but I hadnt found any hence my original post. I still feel this is a game "issue" but if I can work around it ("beat" it if you like) then that will be job done. I actually find overload and moreso Control to be pretty useless especially in this scenario but that could be due to other shouts not used or elements of my *tactics (*see foot note) that work against those mentalities. I have to say though that my basic tactics are mostly default for everything and Standard mentality, so that should not be so. I understand that slider tweaking blunts menatlities laid over a tactic.

(*see above) I say "tactics", plural, as all tactics I create suffer the same effect, though to be fair the tactics I have used over 3 years have been very samey.

Expanding on Biggus's post a bit... if you watch a Barca match against a very defensive opponent, you will notice that they don't just "park" their own attacking players in the penalty area. This is, effectively, what forward runs often does. Instead, their players are constantly dropping back and darting back into the penalty area. Keep in mind, effective attacks need momentum and you won't get that by just popping in crosses to stationary attackers.

For an example of the latter, watch Liverpool matches from the 2011/12 season. While they've vastly improved against smaller sides this season, last season, they were a perfect example of the sort of tactics that frustrate FM players against very defensive AI. Essentially, they would park Suarez and Carroll in the box while Johnson/Downing/Henderson made crosses to the double/triple-marked attackers. But if you think about it, that's just like taking an endless series of free kicks without sending your centrebacks forward... of course, that's not going to work.

So against very defensive opponents, consider using a less aggressive strategy to ensure your players patiently look for space and aren't just constantly taking pot shots from outside the area... then drop more attacking players into a support duty while pushing more defensive players into a support duty as well. This ensures no one is just going to be camping out in the box. Instead, you should have a large number of players dropping in and out of the box, forcing the opposition defenders to move, make quick decisions about who to mark and, hopefully, leave space for others.

Do not worry if going to a more conservative strategy reduces closing down and your defensive line. If your opponent is parking the bus, they are voluntarily compressing themselves into their own third, and what you really want is to lure them out further into midfield as this will open up some space.

[Butters76]

Point 4 in OP: and one Support in attack (especially if you have a lone FC).

I have to disagree on this one, esp if you have a AMC. I find I get mostly longshots when he's on support since the striker is often too far back on the pitch. Set him to attack and the midfielders have someone to pass to further up the pitch and they don't end up shooting from 25 yards as much.

But then again, I guess it depends on the rest of your tactic.

[greekgeorge]

Great thread. Wwfan thanks for saving my managerial career!

I was having trouble during my first season with Luton, really close to getting fired, but it never occurred to me that simply switching between 4-4-2, 4-4-1-1 and 4-5-1 would not be enough to start winning games. After reading some of wwfan's advice to someone else, I stuck with my 4-4-2 formation, with one DLP, one BMW and two WM (one attack, one support). I kept my target man (attack) and changed the second striker to DLF (support). I also started paying more attention to the opposition, trying to mark their best players out of the game, when possible. Since my players were too good for Blue Square, I used Control for most of the games, with plenty of through balls. I had immediate results and managed to get promoted.

My second season was even better. I signed some players who fit my style of play, used Control for home games and Counter for away, so i got promoted a second time.

I'm in my third season now (League 1). Decided to start playing Counter home and away. My defence is fantastic (second best), my team has the most draws in the league, I don't score as easily as before but it makes sense since half my players are the same who got promoted from Blue Square. Managed to get into the play offs, so with a bit of luck I might make it to the final and try for a third promotion in 3 years.

Since my team does not score as much as before, I have noticed that my strikers and midfielders seem to get frustrated sometimes and start shoot from distance even if my instructions are not to. Even if sometimes it gets annoying, it makes complete sense.

[Welshace]

Point 4 in OP: and one Support in attack (especially if you have a lone FC).

I have to disagree on this one, esp if you have a AMC. I find I get mostly longshots when he's on support since the striker is often too far back on the pitch. Set him to attack and the midfielders have someone to pass to further up the pitch and they don't end up shooting from 25 yards as much.

But then again, I guess it depends on the rest of your tactic.

He clearly means having someone support the attack.. to cover the area in between the striker/strikers and the midfielders... your AMC covers this.

It's all about having players playing between the lines and covering all area's.

[milnerpoint]

Really enjoying that you chose Bradford. Really, really enjoying that you chose Bradford

Even more so now

[Butters76]

He clearly means having someone support the attack.. to cover the area in between the striker/strikers and the midfielders... your AMC covers this.

It's all about having players playing between the lines and covering all area's.

Yeah I guess. I didn't read it quite like that since he said. Have atleast one defender with attack. one midfielder with defend and one with attack. and then said and one support in attack.

My bad.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Regarding having "a defender with Att mentality", I am still sceptical about this now having tried it, even more so as I cannot recall a single tactic stated by players that does this (true I have not looked at every post detailing every tactic - but have looked at a great many). If by "att", "auto" was implied then fine but that was not my understanding

[wwfan]

I'd agree with BiggusD's and The Hand of God's posts about how you might break down the parked bus defence. However, a more aggressive strategy might work if you have the type of players to make it work. For example, if you have mountainous forwards and fantastic crossers, then pumping the ball in from wide positions on a regular basis should make something happen. Overload with a shout combo encouraging this should work reasonably well, although of course, there are no guarantees. If you do not have this combination of player types, then playing more patiently and pulling the opposition out of shape is a great option. Opening space (wide/deeper) generally helps as well.

Regarding having "a defender with Att mentality", I am still sceptical about this now having tried it, even more so as I cannot recall a single tactic stated by players that does this (true I have not looked at every post detailing every tactic - but have looked at a great many). If by "att", "auto" was implied then fine but that was not my understanding

The player is given an attacking 'duty' not an attacking 'mentality'. Big difference. It's basically just forward runs, which encourages the player to get forward into attacking positions. His mentality is set by philosophy and strategy, which determine how quickly his duty kicks in. The main reason for the advice is to prevent predictability and offer different threats for the AI to deal with on each flank. You could play more symmetrically as long as the player quality you have is best supported that way. As you are giving up some unpredictability, you'd need to be sure that the symmetrical way is the best way.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

I'd agree with BiggusD's and The Hand of God's posts about how you might break down the parked bus defence. However, a more aggressive strategy might work if you have the type of players to make it work. For example, if you have mountainous forwards and fantastic crossers, then pumping the ball in from wide positions on a regular basis should make something happen. Overload with a shout combo encouraging this should work reasonably well, although of course, there are no guarantees. If you do not have this combination of player types, then playing more patiently and pulling the opposition out of shape is a great option. Opening space (wide/deeper) generally helps as well.

The player is given an attacking 'duty' not an attacking 'mentality'. Big difference. It's basically just forward runs, which encourages the player to get forward into attacking positions. His mentality is set by philosophy and strategy, which determine how quickly his duty kicks in. The main reason for the advice is to prevent predictability and offer different threats for the AI to deal with on each flank. You could play more symmetrically as long as the player quality you have is best supported that way. As you are giving up some unpredictability, you'd need to be sure that the symmetrical way is the best way.

Thanks wwfan, I am starting to understand. So a DL set as WB role would count presumably. What abour 2 x DC's, one set as stopper - as a stopper "steps up" in theory, would that count?

[wwfan]

Thanks wwfan, I am starting to understand. So a DL set as WB role would count presumably. What abour 2 x DC's, one set as stopper - as a stopper "steps up" in theory, would that count?

Stopper is determined by mentality and closing down settings that encourage the player to step out of the line and deal with the threat early, rather than holding back and sweeping it up. It is not an attack duty.

A DL as WB/Support does set FWRs to Often, which is the equivalent of an FB/Attack role/duty. Other settings encourage him to take slightly more risks in a WB/Attack role/duty.

[Beardeye]

WWfan, i recently made the following post in another thread:

"Another post that does little to advise how to beat the parked bus. By the way, I do know about the "Control" and "look for the overlap" options but in my experience for about 3 years now getting a positive result is easier against favourites than it is against underdogs. Maybe I and the many others that have experienced this luckily made tactics that overperform against the the former but do not have a clue how to make a tactic that even performs to expectation against the latter, but that is an unlikely scenario. If that is so then it suggests that the tactical advice in the forums (and I do include the T&TF) is somewhat lacking in clarity regarding achieving these odds on resultThanks

I have come across this exact issue recently as well. I am playing in league 1 with shrewsbury side (4th season) which is decent in quality (but not top 5) and expected to make the playoffs. As it is league 1 with not great pitches I was playing the following:

GK

FBs (auto)

CDs(D)

Anchor (D)

BWM (S)

BWM(S)

Wingers (S)

DLF (A)

Away from home as underdog rigid, direct passing with everything else on default. If the AI got too much time on the ball (usually look at possession stats) I would press more, hassle, push up, pass into space. This got me a on a great run and i shot up to top of the table.

I then started becoming favourite at home and was successful playing control (shout play wider and pass into space) initially. Then i became strong favourites at home against mid-table/ relegation battlers and everything fell apart.

As the lower teams played a low tempo possession game i played control (or attacking) but pushed up, pressed more, got stuck in. This led to a horrible run where i got hit on the counter or conceded from set pieces and led to me stop playing the game through frustration. I wouldn’t say that these teams were ‘parking the bus’- as that to me is timewasting (visible through commentary when goal kicks/ throw ins happen), very deep, strikers dropping back into midfield etc- these teams were just playing slower and more cautiously.

Looking at Biggus/ Hand of God/ wwfan posts above it would seem that i had a successful counter attacking/ direct passing lower league tactic. Rather than pushing up and pressing more with control/ attack strategies i should have kept playing counter but pressed more, played wider, moved FB’s to WB’s and wingers to attack, with DLF on support. Or am i mistaken?

[Beardeye]

Looking at Biggus/ Hand of God/ wwfan posts above it would seem that i had a successful counter attacking/ direct passing lower league tactic. Rather than pushing up and pressing more with control/ attack strategies i should have kept playing counter but pressed more, played wider, moved FB’s to WB’s and wingers to attack, with DLF on support. Or am i mistaken?

Any thoughts on the above post (extract quoted) and the merit of still playing counter at home with more attacking roles?

[wwfan]

Any thoughts on the above post (extract quoted) and the merit of still playing counter at home with more attacking roles?

I played counter almost exclusively with Arsenal in FM11 and then again with Barcelona in FM12. To break down stubborn defensives I'd do what Barca were criticised for not ever doing, which was spreading the play wider and playing more directly. Nearly always worked.

Changing roles would also be an option, as would be dropping deeper to draw them out.