Going against the Grain, a journey from rage quit to complete satisfaction

Around three weeks ago I posted in one the main feedback threads about my disgust to the new FM13, like a lot of others I was suffering from a symptom I like to call FM Rage Quit. The effects of FMRQ are such - Log in to FM, try to build a team, download or try to make a tactic, play a few games, see nothing work, stress out, smash your laptop around the room, log out of FM and finally post your disgust on the FM forums... rinse repeat etc (you get the picture)

After my 14th FMRQ Id decided i needed to take a new approach to FM, I could not simply download another persons tactic and just plug some players in to have success. In FM12 i managed to take Plymouth to the quad in 6 seasons thanks to Mr Houghs 433 ME buster. No, now was the time to hit FM from every conceivable angle possible to me, all the weapons are at my disposal, lets start to use them and make FM fun again!

So where did my journey to complete satisfaction begin? Well let me give you a quick rundown of my Dag & Red career save

Season 1 - Download a 532 tactic that seems to be working for people. Finish 2nd in League 2, promotion.

Season 2 - Download a new 532, win league, promotion.

(at no point am i fully in love with new FM, im just going through the motions flying through games and no real enjoyment, even though im winning, after all ive done this kind of thing in every version from cm1)

Season 3 - Stay with same tactic, promotion to Premiership via play offs)

Season 4 - Latest patch kicks in, absolutely nothing works, all downloadable tactics are horrible for my team). Finish last in Prem with a mighty 12 points FMRQ starting to kick in

2/3 into Season 5 - No tactics working, im in the relegation zone with a load of promising youths who great frankly think im the worst manager to grace this earth. FMRQ in full effect!

At this point im ready to jack it all in and move back to FM12 where i can win games (albeit with the aid of the latest ME buster per se). I need to do something drastic, something that ive never been able to do in FM, I MUST create my own tactic, I MUST work out how to play this game, I MUST start to figure out what the hell im doing and how to do it!

I then spent the next couple of days going through hundreds of threads and posts in the tactic forum so I could get an idea of how this actual version of FM plays. It turns out pretty much the same as most FM's though for someone who always downloads tactics i wouldnt know . So what did i do next, well it was fairly simple to start off with, I unpicked my entire team and spent a good couple of hours looking at my squad and deciding where my actual strengths were and a tactic/shape that would fit them. After looking at atts, comparisons I decided i was a team full of midfield talent, decent strikers but absolutely nought width (mainly wingers). At the time i was scouting in Brazil and found a decent couple of youths who fitted nicely into my first team, thats where the inspiration of a BOX 4222 kicked in. I was going to be the Brazilian team of the English football league! Nothing like doing things easy!

Here we go i thought, now the hard work begins, all players deselected, clean slate as they say so first thing to do is select the tactic, the tactic and role is the current state of play after a few days of evolving and working out whats best for my team:

Formation:

Results before new approach:

As you will see this was dire hence the new approach. Before I go any further big respect to Cleon for being an absolute gent and posting me in all the right directions, I drew huge inspiration from the 12 point guide - here if you havent read it as yet:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/332585-How-to-Play-FM13-A-Twelve-Step-Guide

So the formation now been set (easy part) i needed to decide how my team would play. In all of this ive always used the best tactic to my players available now ive settled and fallen in love with the BOX i will be sticking to it and trying to get the best players for it and not make a new tactic to work for my players (get players for the tactic after youve settled on something you want to work with is my personal point of view).

Originally I wanted to keep ball, I didnt want my team make stupid mistakes and gifting goals so i was of mind if the OPP dont have the ball they cant do anything with it. Which led me to creating my passing analysis thread to learn how to analyse the passing stats:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/332520-Passing-Analysis-Guidance?p=8342842#post8342842

The more and more the thread went on i gained an idea of how I should play my tactic so what started out as a simple question turned into a mini help centre for my new tactic and what i was trying to create. Things all of a sudden began to become clearer, this games actually a lot more undertandable than people think, its really a case of round holes and round pegs, common sense makes up 50% of it! This was the basis of my player roles, why try and make them do something they cant do and just make it simple. So with that in mind i simply gave the players roles they were suited to, yes that simple! (see formation pick for current roles).

Onto the team instructions and what i personally think is the most important factor in getting the tactics bang on. As i explained i wanted to make my team a possession based team but after looking at comparision page of where my team stood in the league I though I needed to take advantage of this:

Def:

Mid:

Att:

Pretty clear to see from first glance that i had a great midfield , lots of pace and energy but very much lacking in the technical creativity side of things. As i thought possession play would have worked i suddenly thought i didnt have the team to create anything, i would just be passing in circles or giving the ball away.

So i went the complete opposite, I needed to hassle high up the park to take advantage of the energy and tackling my team had. I needed to win ball and and release the forwards with the great passing, speed and finishing I possessed in the team. So after plugging these factors in I came up with the following team instructions:

I played with this system for the remainder of the season and had nice little run to make me mid table and easily avoid the drop. Granted not great but a darn site better than before, plus i was playing some nice stuff and kids were coming through, the signs of a good team were starting to show:

So into pre-season, im reading more about the game and taking more stuff in. Im actually starting to feel like a real football manager, starting to do things that make sense and to see them come off. Im loving the thrill of the ride, every tweak thoughtfully thought out before implementation.

I bring in a couple of older players to help my kids (the players can be seen in my passing analysis thread) so the team is really taking shape for my onslaught into new season. I tweak a couple of buts here and there, nothing fancy but some role changes to suit the new, better players.

I start to grasp what the OI's do and how to combat the OPP, im constantly evolving my thinking and my knowdlge is getting better:

End of season six, made the play offs but missed out on promotion in the semis. I dont think my team is good enough for prem as yet so not a bed wetter:

It was great to see im having huge success in front of goal but im not so good at the back. This then becomes my new mission going into season 7.

I then decide to strip back ALL my team settings, ive now got a good knowledge of shouts based on the guide from Cleon so lets use them and keep the setting clean so i can make changes on the fly.

I dont bring many more first teamers in pre season as the kids are starting to come on nice. I was getting hurt by through balls and flanks so dropped my team ment to control and used a balance approach to make sure my team keeps the shape I was trying to establish. Ive not got a full armoury of created shouts as my disposal but I generally start off with the following:

Working well most of the time and the change from attach to control seems to have sured my backline up even though im possibly scoring less, though the wins are coming thick and fast now...

Results for the start of season 7 (top of Championship):

A few blips here and there but im massively encouraged as to there my team is going. The avg age of my team is 21 so there is so much more to come...

Are just two of the many BRA talents i have coming though the ranks.

So in a nutshell thats basically it, my journey from almost quitting to getting complete satisfaction from FM! Im currently loving the game more than I ever, I cant recommend going enough going this route, i will never play FM like i use to, this was is a million times more satisfying.

My tips would be:

* Dont EVER give in! There is always light at the end of the FM tunnel

* Read as much as you can in the tactic section

* Analyse EVERYTHING. Spend a good few minutes after every game seeing where things went wrong or what was working for you.

* Dont be afraid to ask or create a new thread, there are so many helpful knowledgeable people on this forum willing offer great advice.

My knowledge of how FM ME works now is 20x better than when i started this journey. I now have the skills to see whats going on on the pich and how to take approriate actions.

Now if i only stop the addiction.........

Post's like this make all the abuse and stick us mods get all worth while knowing just 1 person took the advice he was given and tried to change his own thinking about how played the game and is open to trying something new.

You deserve loads of credit for sticking to the new approach even when things were going wrong and giving it time to all filter through. I'm really delighted you feel you have a better grasp for the game. I really hope more people read this thread and are inspired by you. They should be

It's amazing what a bit of reading can do isn't it?

Thanks Cleon. Without the help from you guys I would have binned this game two weeks ago.

The pay off for patience is fantastic. I cant say this enough but its - READ, ANALYSE, IMPLEMENT, READ, IMPLEMENT, ANALYSE, READ all the way

Still so much to learn but for everything new I do makes the game that bit more enjoyable.

learn your roles

All I have to say is WOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I went through a similar process, although mine was always trying to create my own tactic. I'm still tinkering with tactics in my saves at the moment, but I'm starting to grasp exactly what you see in your team, using the team report screens, analyzing opposition, and being patient. Seeing what works. Using logic and challenging yourself to solve the puzzle that is FM 13.

Also, I loved the box in FM 12. Got me promoted from the championship as well when I was playing as Halifax. I'm going to have to try it out again now that you have had success with it

Top post, well done.

Not a chance that anybody in "the thread that shall not be named" will hear any of this, they have their fingers in the ears shouting FM SUCKS,FM SUCKS

This thread is a breath of fresh air.

Well done to you wez007 for dedicating yourself to turning your fortunes around

Great post. I have experienced the same as you. Did actually do well, but didn't have a clue of what I was doing. Started a new save as Bayern as I wanted to learn how to understand the ME and work with the tactics knowing that my players were good enough,but it was up to me how to play them. Really enjoying it, learning from mistakes and just now I beat Dortmund 1-0 away, limited them to a few chances, controlling the game, and made them take off Goetze in frustration. It is things like this that makes you love this game.KUTGW, I will follow your post and progress. Lot to learn there.

Top post! I admire your patience and it was a great read. Although, as I've said before, I think most people who are upset with the game don't have the patience to play this way and I am still thinking SI has either:

A: Made the game too complicated and time demanding and/or

B: They are poor at explaining in game how things work.

I think if some work could be done explaining in game how things work then both mods and SI would get less abuse and you wouldn't have been even close to rage quit in the first place. Myself, I'm beginning the same journey you are on, even after reading all advice on here I have a hard time getting a tactic to work.

Good post but you must have some sort of divine patience to persevere!

Well not really, as you will see it all started to click into place within a few games. Its actually getting the understanding thats the patience bit. Learn it once and thorough and you are sure footed for the rest of your FM career

This is a great thread, and highlights the fact that more of us are trying to understand the game now, almost certainly as a consequence of the new ME.

The fact that plug and play downloadable tactics are less successful is a step in the right direction and means that the general knowledge of the user base has to increase in order to adapt.

Great thread and congrats on the success. I'm very early in the learning process you described, though at this point I have no idea if I will ever get to the point you are now. I'm not going to give up yet though, I enjoy the game overall too much.

Post's like this make all the abuse and stick us mods get all worth while knowing just 1 person took the advice he was given and tried to change his own thinking about how played the game and is open to trying something new.

You deserve loads of credit for sticking to the new approach even when things were going wrong and giving it time to all filter through. I'm really delighted you feel you have a better grasp for the game. I really hope more people read this thread and are inspired by you. They should be

It's amazing what a bit of reading can do isn't it?

Couldn't have said it better myself. Congratulations, wez007.

Balance the team then tweak.......

If you don't mind a question, why is your BPD behind your DLP? Wouldn't he be better served in the CDR position?

Also.... in the spirit of 'always improving', have you thought about moving your MCL (AP) to the MCR position? The right side of your midfield column is generally more advanced than the left and by having the AP(A) on the left he is likely to be moving into the same space as the TM who is dropping deep, neither of those roles have roaming so they could be trying to play in the same space.... unless of course, your plan is for your AP(A) to move into the TM's position, though if that is the case, then you might be better served with an CM(A).

A Similar argument could be said for your DMR(S) moving into space already occupied. Again if you were to swap the AP over then he would be moving forwards and leaving a gap for the DMR to move into. I think you could create some nice passing triangles this way.

All that said, I am not familiar with this tactic, so if it's working.... then stick with it.... more food for thought than anything else.

Regards

LAM

Congratulations on your success. I love seeing people improve and importantly enjoy the game, as they improve. While there are the Cleon & Wwfan's that are superb help, I love helping with what I do know and can for people. I think what you have done Wez - is excellent. I furthermore would like to point out how excellent it is that you have written about how you have gone about it, and related it to everyone who has ever struggled. Top post mate.

Good post like these force me to back to basics.

Top post, well done.

Not a chance that anybody in "the thread that shall not be named" will hear any of this, they have their fingers in the ears shouting FM SUCKS,FM SUCKS

I was reading that very thread whilst struggling massively in my game when I read a couple of wwfans posts and it was like a light being switched on in my brain, I went from feeling as if I couldn't buy a win to 7 league titles in a row and a CL semi-final.

Whilst it's true a few closed minded individuals might never except the fact that 'plug and play' tactics are exactly the kind of thing SI are trying to distance themselves from and decide FM being less easy = FM being bad, the more threads like this one around the place and the more people daring to post 'against the grain' and able to take the flak you'll inevitably get for daring to suggest 'it's your tactics' the better imo.

I was reading that very thread whilst struggling massively in my game when I read a couple of wwfans posts and it was like a light being switched on in my brain, I went from feeling as if I couldn't buy a win to 7 league titles in a row and a CL semi-final.

Whilst it's true a few closed minded individuals might never except the fact that 'plug and play' tactics are exactly the kind of thing SI are trying to distance themselves from and decide FM being less easy = FM being bad, the more threads like this one around the place and the more people daring to post 'against the grain' and able to take the flak you'll inevitably get for daring to suggest 'it's your tactics' the better imo.

It's not a case of SI distancing themselves from them, its more a case of plug and play tactics take advantage of ME flaws and bugs. What we are seeing is a lot of these bugs are been fixed now which is why we are seeing a lot of disgruntled people. They've relied on this flaws for that long they don't know any other way.

It's kinda ironic really because if you know the TC well enough and the shouts you hardly ever have to make any changes, you can just swap shouts in or out and you get the desired results. I guess in my current save I change things 25% of the time. The other 75% is spent sailing through games.

Balance the team then tweak.......

If you don't mind a question, why is your BPD behind your DLP? Wouldn't he be better served in the CDR position?

Also.... in the spirit of 'always improving', have you thought about moving your MCL (AP) to the MCR position? The right side of your midfield column is generally more advanced than the left and by having the AP(A) on the left he is likely to be moving into the same space as the TM who is dropping deep, neither of those roles have roaming so they could be trying to play in the same space.... unless of course, your plan is for your AP(A) to move into the TM's position, though if that is the case, then you might be better served with an CM(A).

A Similar argument could be said for your DMR(S) moving into space already occupied. Again if you were to swap the AP over then he would be moving forwards and leaving a gap for the DMR to move into. I think you could create some nice passing triangles this way.

All that said, I am not familiar with this tactic, so if it's working.... then stick with it.... more food for thought than anything else.

Regards

LAM

Lam,

It was more of a cosmetic thing, I have a amrc in the MCR position and as he has roam i thought it would be more natural to have him drift over to his natural side. Once I read what you said about the left side ive actually noticed the DM getting in the MCLs way and the same with the MCL and TM. So had a tinker and went to...

And the result:

Check out the 3rd goal triangle play, its gorgeous one touch football

[video=youtube;MIjlOmF4JsU]

Nice one!

That's a great goal.

ohhh..... that was nice !!!

Was that after changing the roles around?

Either way, gotta love the use of playing between the lines....... very nice indeed

indeed it was

[video=youtube;OqZVRoIoMfQ]

When you get into the premiership, be sure to name something after me...... a burger stand or something will do;)

Nice one!

That is a truly lovely goal.

Shame he didn't do it justice by uploading it in more than 320!

Fantastic goal

Shame he didn't do it justice by uploading it in more than 320!

[video=youtube;MIjlOmF4JsU]

For you

Even nicer goal now

Think I will post in here because other sections are quite scary atm!

Think I agree with all of this. Was having no success then read WWfans little guide. Started again after numerous saves and just kept it Very Simple.

An attacking 442 and a more defensive 4132. Just a couple of tweaks to passing and marking in the TC and a few shouts pre match depending on opposition.

Presto! Getting results and seeing much much less bugs/stupid play. Still lose a few but hey.

Best thing is, when I make shouts during a match it really does "feel" or seem like I'm having an influence.

Makes me wonder then, that by trying to beat the M.E (or however its phrased),you are actually "breaking" it so causing the "stupid" players?

I wouldn't say that messing with sliders is breaking the ME. I mess with them all the time, but it's because I am normaly removing an instruction that my player is not capable of. Occassionaly I'll add something too. BUT, at the heart of it, my entire tactic starts out as the TC settings

It is perfectly feasable to do very well just using the TC and without tweaking anything. However A) People dont want to use the TC and B) when they do they set up the wrong roles and normally they are to attacking.

Only ever used TC before 13, but I did used to mess with pre set

Roles a fair bit. Now I suppose it's more realistic and your not

Asking players to do what they shouldn't be able to. So yes, agreed.

Put me in the camp that previously had dismissed the Tactic Creator has some kind of basic default system. In FM12 I knew my tactical knowledge was very limited and I relied on tactics made by others. I was having a lot of trouble in FM13 but amazingly informative posts by wwfan and many others here have really changed my views on the game and put me on a better path (hopefully).

I still cant make a decent tactic. I think this version may be slightly beyond me.

That's a brilliant goal Wez

This thread should be put in general discussion as well.

Great stuff.

IMan

Keep trying. I just picked a couple of basic tactics for

Attack and control from what's on offer. Changed passing

to direct on one and zone marking. A couple of pre match

shouts, then use shouts in the match. My reading of it is

that cos your starting in a very basic plan, match shouts

have the desired effect.

I made a similar transition when the tactics creator was introduced a few years ago, makes the game 10x better.

If you're not constantly thinking while playing FM, you're not playing you're just clicking buttons.

Ok so here is a prime example of taking things in, reviewing and implementing....

I managed to sneak into the League Cup Semi finals, awaiting me the current Premiership champions - Man City

Game time came, Id never played Citeh before and I wasnt entirely sure how to play thier 4231 narrow, first time i came up against it. So i didnt actually set any OI, i thought id just play them as my normal set up.

Kick off came... 2nd min Costa burst down the left, into Fellani... 1-0. 15th min and im two down, Fellani plays a one two with Augero and its 2-0 and my staring down the barrel and not even 1/10 of the way through the tie. Before I can sure up its 3-0, costa cuts in from left and drills and unstoppable piledriver into the top corner. Im getting absolutely mullered here!

I get into half time and players look like suicidal, how am i going to pick this lot up and try and keep the score to a reasonable, non embrassing level?! So i tell them to keep thier heads up and just go out and relax, youve done great to get where we are. I decide ive had enough of fellani so im going to try and put him in row z.

So I man mark both the AMLC and AMRC (costa and fellani) with my robust DM's. I set one of my DC's to keep an eye on the AMC while the other DC sits. As they are really pushing thier front 6 forward I decided to hit the ball direct into my ADV pm who might (more hope than anything) get into the hole and create some damage. My fullbacks now also have a bit less pressure as the DM;s are coming into help them.

So i kick off the 2nd half and within 15 seconds its 4! Dont you just love making changes and they score straight away

Ok, another onslaught i think.. the game goes on and its suddenly not all one way traffic, Ive either nulified thier attacks or they have taken thier foot off the pedal as 4 up. I play some decent stuff in the final 15 and put them on the back foot, managing to score with 10 mins left. I then have a one on one to make it 4-2 but my ST put it onto the bar. Final whistle.

So onto the 2nd leg, no expecations at im 4-1 down to the best team in the game. What i have learnt is that i CAN get to this team, i can hurt them in certain places and ive shown i can stop the onslaught. So I make the changes as mentioned in above and kick off...

From the start im onto them, hassling, winning ball over the park. Costa and Fellani are suddenly knowwhere to be seen and my MC's have loads of room to do thier stuff! After 7 mins im 1 up, 19 minutes im 2 up!! Can a boy dream.. can i do the impossible?! Have City come here thinking this will be a walkover. I notice thier morale is shot to bits and i target the players who seem to be nervous as little kittens, I smash them up in other words with some seriously hard tackling and super glue hassling.

Half time and Citeh are against the ropes, i dont need to make any changes as why do i need to!? I praise the lads and tell them for one last push, we can do this! 47th min and disaster strikes, it seems Mancini has given the hairdyer treatment and Citeh look a much better team after the break. BUT im still not out of this, I continue to target the nervous and week players and Boom, a great move sees the score go to 3-1, just one more to get to ET!! I batter them the last ten, hitting the bar twice but they manage to hold on. What a game, im gutted i lost they were there for the taking but proud of how my lads played and happy with myself for spotting what was going wrong, how to fix it and also target the opp. Citeh know they have been in a battle here!

Off to Stamford Bridge for a FA Cup 3rd round replay.... i need a lay down

Ok so here is a prime example of taking things in, reviewing and implementing....

I managed to sneak into the League Cup Semi finals, awaiting me the current Premiership champions - Man City

Game time came, Id never played Citeh before and I wasnt entirely sure how to play thier 4231 narrow, first time i came up against it. So i didnt actually set any OI, i thought id just play them as my normal set up.

Kick off came... 2nd min Costa burst down the left, into Fellani... 1-0. 15th min and im two down, Fellani plays a one two with Augero and its 2-0 and my staring down the barrel and not even 1/10 of the way through the tie. Before I can sure up its 3-0, costa cuts in from left and drills and unstoppable piledriver into the top corner. Im getting absolutely mullered here!

I get into half time and players look like suicidal, how am i going to pick this lot up and try and keep the score to a reasonable, non embrassing level?! So i tell them to keep thier heads up and just go out and relax, youve done great to get where we are. I decide ive had enough of fellani so im going to try and put him in row z.

So I man mark both the AMLC and AMRC (costa and fellani) with my robust DM's. I set one of my DC's to keep an eye on the AMC while the other DC sits. As they are really pushing thier front 6 forward I decided to hit the ball direct into my ADV pm who might (more hope than anything) get into the hole and create some damage. My fullbacks now also have a bit less pressure as the DM;s are coming into help them.

So i kick off the 2nd half and within 15 seconds its 4! Dont you just love making changes and they score straight away

Ok, another onslaught i think.. the game goes on and its suddenly not all one way traffic, Ive either nulified thier attacks or they have taken thier foot off the pedal as 4 up. I play some decent stuff in the final 15 and put them on the back foot, managing to score with 10 mins left. I then have a one on one to make it 4-2 but my ST put it onto the bar. Final whistle.

So onto the 2nd leg, no expecations at im 4-1 down to the best team in the game. What i have learnt is that i CAN get to this team, i can hurt them in certain places and ive shown i can stop the onslaught. So I make the changes as mentioned in above and kick off...

From the start im onto them, hassling, winning ball over the park. Costa and Fellani are suddenly knowwhere to be seen and my MC's have loads of room to do thier stuff! After 7 mins im 1 up, 19 minutes im 2 up!! Can a boy dream.. can i do the impossible?! Have City come here thinking this will be a walkover. I notice thier morale is shot to bits and i target the players who seem to be nervous as little kittens, I smash them up in other words with some seriously hard tackling and super glue hassling.

Half time and Citeh are against the ropes, i dont need to make any changes as why do i need to!? I praise the lads and tell them for one last push, we can do this! 47th min and disaster strikes, it seems Mancini has given the hairdyer treatment and Citeh look a much better team after the break. BUT im still not out of this, I continue to target the nervous and week players and Boom, a great move sees the score go to 3-1, just one more to get to ET!! I batter them the last ten, hitting the bar twice but they manage to hold on. What a game, im gutted i lost they were there for the taking but proud of how my lads played and happy with myself for spotting what was going wrong, how to fix it and also target the opp. Citeh know they have been in a battle here!

Off to Stamford Bridge for a FA Cup 3rd round replay.... i need a lay down

That's the fault when you don't know how someone plays, do you change it and do OI's in the hope it works? Or do you stay neutral like you did and change things based on what you see happening. It is a learning curve but by spending a few minutes doing what you did, you now understand City and their formation a lot better as you proved in the 2nd leg. On another day they might not have scored as early as they did in the first leg and you'd have won the game.

The fact that you feel gutted about the result because you think you should have won speaks volumes about what you learnt in the first leg. You may have lost the game but you seemed to learn a lot during it. No doubt about it, the next time you face them you'll be able to prepare for them a lot better and a lot earlier

Yeah one thing i've come to realise is that there used to be a time in FM when all i'd do with my game was...look for the odd player not playing up to par and sub him. The only tweak I'd do is dlines.

This time around with the new engine I am actually engaged. You got to think in cognitive terms, spatial exploits and weaknesses. Thats what i do each time I head to the pitch, from the moment the formation is up, I have a plan and then I target OI players that need to be handled. I've even moved players around the pitch and swapped their positions cos I want that red card to be handed out.

Yeah you're on the way there..dont give in but use every defeat to get better before you know it you've reached journey's end and the gratification is fantastic.

I am happy for you, friend of 4222 box

That's the fault when you don't know how someone plays, do you change it and do OI's in the hope it works? Or do you stay neutral like you did and change things based on what you see happening. It is a learning curve but by spending a few minutes doing what you did, you now understand City and their formation a lot better as you proved in the 2nd leg. On another day they might not have scored as early as they did in the first leg and you'd have won the game.

The fact that you feel gutted about the result because you think you should have won speaks volumes about what you learnt in the first leg. You may have lost the game but you seemed to learn a lot during it. No doubt about it, the next time you face them you'll be able to prepare for them a lot better and a lot earlier

I will be honest, i didnt really know what to do against their 3 amc approach so i kind of left it and hoped for the best

Wasnt until I saw thier movement (ie Costa was moving out to left and cutting in did i recitify it for example)

Great post Wes always knew you used downloaded tactics in FML

I will be honest, i didnt really know what to do against their 3 amc approach so i kind of left it and hoped for the best

Wasnt until I saw thier movement (ie Costa was moving out to left and cutting in did i recitify it for example)

That's the approach I would have took though. You can't plan for something if you don't know how it'll play out. That's why I watch the first 15 minutes of games and try and set up in that short space of time. I'm sure I linked you the thread didn't I?

Great post Wes always knew you used downloaded tactics in FML

LMAO, only from the links you stickied to org/mod room

That's the approach I would have took though. You can't plan for something if you don't know how it'll play out. That's why I watch the first 15 minutes of games and try and set up in that short space of time. I'm sure I linked you the thread didn't I?

Yes you did... and yes i did read them... and yes i forgot about them

Ive made a depository of all stuff FM now so all in one convenient place come match day

Im having same problems at the moment in FM13 as you had Wes unsurprisingly and started a few days ago doing what you did via the 12 step guide and it starting to help still long way to go though

I've spent the best part of 4 hours this morning trying to sort out my entire setup, moving from 1 man up front in front of what can almost be described as a 4-1-3-1-1, to a 4-4-2 diamond. I'm now creating a hell of a lot more chances, and although I seem to have more pressure from the opposition, I've gone a bit Kevin Keegan until I can get the back 4 set up as I want it to look like (getting a BPD in is a priority);.

442 Dmd Narrow Rob? Or with 2 wide men?