A Twelve Step Guide towards Playing FM13 & Understanding the ME

[AytchMan]

As a long-time CM/FM veteran, I'd like to thank wwfan for his efforts to educate the masses here in this thread. Tactical moron that I am, I've found this thread to be among the most valuable ever posted on this forum. Although noted elsewhere, it's only here that the importance of linking up the various lines for ball control has finally penetrated. As well as the admonition to not tweak just to tweak but rather for a specific purpose. And I haven't even begun to absorb the many other lessons in the twelve steps. Thanks, bud.

[wwfan]

As a long-time CM/FM veteran, I'd like to thank wwfan for his efforts to educate the masses here in this thread. Tactical moron that I am, I've found this thread to be among the most valuable ever posted on this forum. Although noted elsewhere, it's only here that the importance of linking up the various lines for ball control has finally penetrated. As well as the admonition to not tweak just to tweak but rather for a specific purpose. And I haven't even begun to absorb the many other lessons in the twelve steps. Thanks, bud.

Thank you, kind sir.

[drhay53]

Wwfan, I appreciate your in depth posts of the analysis of the two games, but they actually have only made me more frustrated. How do you get the asymmetric passing style, through roles and duties?

I fully admit that I don't know what I'm doing very well, and frankly I'm just not interested in that aspect of the game. I like the depth of the game in squad management and development, and don't want to be overly frustrated by tactics. As it is right now, I'm playing the game way more than usual and it's for the wrong reasons; I'm reading and being demolished by tactical tinkering and what I'd really like is an assistant in the game who actually gives in depth help. I worry that people like me, who are serious players but who are not good tactical players, will soon be passed by.

[paok_revolution]

I hope this week gonna be out the new update of ME

[wwfan]

Wwfan, I appreciate your in depth posts of the analysis of the two games, but they actually have only made me more frustrated. How do you get the asymmetric passing style, through roles and duties?

Yup. On the left side my FB/S sits deep while my ML/A pushes high, wheres on the right they are closer together with more overlaps (WB/A, WM/S).

I fully admit that I don't know what I'm doing very well, and frankly I'm just not interested in that aspect of the game. I like the depth of the game in squad management and development, and don't want to be overly frustrated by tactics. As it is right now, I'm playing the game way more than usual and it's for the wrong reasons; I'm reading and being demolished by tactical tinkering and what I'd really like is an assistant in the game who actually gives in depth help. I worry that people like me, who are serious players but who are not good tactical players, will soon be passed by.

My advice is, as always, stop tinkering and determine a coherent system based on the quality of your players and your own footballing philosophy. The quality of your players is determined by the squad analysis screen. Use that to have a basic understanding of what your squad is and isn't capable of doing, and develop a tactic (team settings) and a starting shout strategy (if you have extreme advantages / disadvantages). Use the roles and duties to best fit the players you have, but ensure the duty logic gets players moving between the lines (i.e. do not trust the assistant on duties as they need to be logical to the tactical structure, but do on roles). That's 90% of what you need to do. It might not win you the title every year, but it will keep you in contention.

The next stage is working out when to change things around. That can involve, at the most basic level, shifting between strategies to, at the most complex, having different shout strategies to cope with all conditions, opponent strengths and formation shapes. To start with, just look to shift strategies up and down to preserve a lead or chase for a goal. Once you become more comfortable, think about which shouts can help in what conditions and play around with them. Don't expect too much too soon, but do try to stick with your philosophy even if it doesn't bring immediate results.

[drhay53]

Part of my problem is that I'm not very knowledgable about tactics in real life. The team that made me love the game is Barca, so that's the only tactic I truly know much about. And it's just not possible to get it to play the way I want in-game.

So if I wanted to set up a counter tactic for away and a control tactic for home, I wouldn't really know how to create a consistent team wide tactical philosophy. What usually happens is I sit down for several hours, try to make it coherent, lose a bunch of games 1-0, and get fired.

I think that by nature I'm a conservative tactician. I'm not adventurous and my biggest problem is always attack. I can setup a good defense but then I can't score. And by trying to figure out how to score, I usually concede. I think that generally implies that I should be a counter attacking tactician, but I can never quite get it to work. And especially if I'm at a big club, I'm horrible at setting up my own tactics.

[wwfan]

Try this: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/275877-The-Barcelona-Style-My-Interpretation

[ak71]

Try this: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/275877-The-Barcelona-Style-My-Interpretation

Hi wwfan,

I am also a fan of barca. I've been following your thread stated above and try to replicate the tactic. However, it seems that i can't obtain total possession; ie 65% and above, of the matches my team played on FM13. I've got no problem with the tactic when i play FM12. Most of the time, my team will obtain 65% and above.

Is this due to the match engine in FM13 or that it's due to my tactics. For your info, i've been tweaking around my tactics by following your guideline, Cleon's and Rashidi's guideline but to know avail.

Thank you.

[drhay53]

Try this: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/275877-The-Barcelona-Style-My-Interpretation

That's about how I usually set it up, but looking at what I have now, I've tweaked away from it a bit.

I'm at Inter in my save, picked 3rd in the league. I will give it a better chance and try to work on reading the match in order to see what shouts and modifications to do each match.

Thanks, I missed that thread.

[BiggusD]

Part of my problem is that I'm not very knowledgable about tactics in real life. The team that made me love the game is Barca, so that's the only tactic I truly know much about. And it's just not possible to get it to play the way I want in-game.

So if I wanted to set up a counter tactic for away and a control tactic for home, I wouldn't really know how to create a consistent team wide tactical philosophy. What usually happens is I sit down for several hours, try to make it coherent, lose a bunch of games 1-0, and get fired.

I think that by nature I'm a conservative tactician. I'm not adventurous and my biggest problem is always attack. I can setup a good defense but then I can't score. And by trying to figure out how to score, I usually concede. I think that generally implies that I should be a counter attacking tactician, but I can never quite get it to work. And especially if I'm at a big club, I'm horrible at setting up my own tactics.

As the below link to another WWfan thread shows, he believes that Attack as a strategy is direct, wide and quick. The Counter-attack strategy is a high-possession, slow and narrow style. Thus, if you want to actually counter-attack you will need to choose the Attack strategy and apply drop deeper, play narrower, stand off shouts (or something like that). I think many people are confused by the fact that there are many different interpretations of football and tactical theories, and that SI has chosen one of them.

[AytchMan]

One of the things that has always amazed me over the years is how a seemingly trivial change in a tactic can make a huge difference in both the flow of the match and the result. Moving the D line one notch forward or back, changing the width slightly or shifting a full back from automatic to attack can completely change everything about a match and a season. Many times I've made a single, small change and watched my team either flourish or march resolutely into the dumper for six consecutive losses. While sometimes I'm sure it's just random dumb luck, most of the time I believe it's not. I can see now how such small changes can either disrupt the link-ups required for an attack or, conversely, click them into place. It's one of the most fascinating/frustrating aspects of FM.

[paok_revolution]

When it's gonna be out the new update of ME.We are waiting for so long

[johnhughthom]

When it's gonna be out the new update of ME.We are waiting for so long

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/344847-The-current-status-of-the-next-Update

[shirajzl]

As the below link to another WWfan thread shows, he believes that Attack as a strategy is direct, wide and quick. The Counter-attack strategy is a high-possession, slow and narrow style. Thus, if you want to actually counter-attack you will need to choose the Attack strategy and apply drop deeper, play narrower, stand off shouts (or something like that). I think many people are confused by the fact that there are many different interpretations of football and tactical theories, and that SI has chosen one of them.

The quote above is very important and should be the first thing to tell those who come here confused with tactical aspect of the game, especially those who think they know a great deal about real life football tactics. FM interpretations are usually just on of a few explanations of the very same football term.

The example above is the most prominent at the moment; a lot of people don't have the same understanding of the term "counter strategy" as the game has.

[mortiscausa]

Yeap so true...I was amazed when I switched to attack strategy and I saw that I'm actually playing counter attack now...it's way too confusing.

[wwfan]

The problem is threefold.

1: There is a counter-attack checkbox which is ticked in the Counter and Defensive strategies. That is actually Counter Attack.

2: The Counter and Defensive strategies relate to the degree to which you sit back versus get forward. Counter is obviously more aggressive than Defensive, but both get forward on the Counter Attack

3: The team settings and shouts determine how you play. If you wish to turn the Counter strategy into one which counters regularly, you would increase tempo and passing length via the team adjustments and the shouts. If you wish to turn it into a strategy that sits back and soaks up pressure, before countering at pace to exploit the draw out opposition, you would slow things down and reduce passing length. The former would be a British interpretation, suited for colder, wetter conditions and less technically accomplished players, the latter more of a European interpretation, suited for warmer, drier conditions and more technically accomplished players, of a counter attacking system. You can similarly adjust the more aggressive strategies.

I appreciate that this is not that clear, but that is a documentation issue. It is, however, wrong to state that there are preferred, rigid interpretations in the TC. It is possible to develop very different counter attacking systems if you employ all the tools available.

[THOG]

It is, however, wrong to state that there are preferred, rigid interpretations in the TC. It is possible to develop very different counter attacking systems if you employ all the tools available.

This isn't quite true. The TC descriptions definitely suggest that each strategy has, at least, a "primary" way of using it and, IMO, implicitly discourages the use of less aggressive strategies against equal or smaller opposition, at least for the newcomer. In other words, the TC descriptions do imply that Counter naturally corresponds to playing stronger opposition when you are expecting to "lose the battle for possession", Control to playing weaker opposition that you can comfortable dominate, etc.... but experienced FM players know that each strategy is far more flexible. You're right that it doesn't specifically discourage experimentation, but it does push the newcomer into specific boxes as to what constitutes a "good" application of various strategies in terms of passing style, what kind of opponent to use it against, etc.

I've been working on a long post detailing my issues with TC terminology as a player who came into the game via the TC, abandoned it, read TT&F and returned to the TC. I'll hopefully have it finished up tomorrow, but the basic gist is that a lot of TC terms and descriptions, unintentionally, overlook colloquial semantic "baggage" and directly leads to a lot of the frustration and misinterpretation that your OP attempts to resolve. Put simply, the TC is brilliant for people who have read Inverting the Pyramid and are thinking about tactics at a very abstract, theoretical level... but that's not most of the FM audience; it should be more like tactical Legos, building blocks accessible even to the most casual football fan. As such, I think the solution is not so much explanatory posts on General Discussion (as terrific as this thread is) but simply switching to terminology that focuses more on one/two-word names for options that focus on actual function as well as less prescriptive explanations of what each option does.

[FMenthusiast]

Really good thread this hope the wwfan is still responding as i really could do with some advice:

Im finding FM13 much harder than any previous Fm and ive been playing these games for over 10 years, its the first time ive bought the game and literally stopped playing it within days as i couldnt seem to get any joy, im finding it really difficult almost impossible to get my teams to play good football, i usually start with lesser sides for the challeneg but that quickly went out of the window this year! but even with the very elite teams and players im struggling, the quality of football is horrendous, im one who always likes to watch the full match as i dont feel you can properly assess how a match is going simply by reading the commentary although bizarrely it seems to become a different game entirely when you dont watch the game loads more seems to happen but thats another thing im more asking for help in how to get my team creating chances.

Basically im playing as game as Man City manager, my setup is the following:

Hart

Zabaleta - Kompany - Lescott - Clichy

Toure - De Rossi

Moura Silva Bale

Aguero

Hart is on basic GK instructions

after reading this thread i put Clichy on WB/A role/duty Zabaleta on WB/S Kompany DC/Cover and Lescott DC/Stopper

De Rossi is on ball winning midfielder defend role duty, Yaya Toure Box to Box support

Moura winger attack, Silva AP attack Bale winger attack

Aguero DLF/S he was originally on poacher attack but never seemed to get a sniff, funnily enough he dosnt even on DLF support not sure why?

That set up seems to be in line with what you reccomended as a decent lay out in terms of roles and dutys, 1 attack in defence 1 defence in midfield 1 forward thinking player in midfield and 1 support player in attack.

So why is it my team struggle so badly to create any sort of chances to score? and i mean literally ZERO ccc! nearly every single match is a replica of the other, ill have around 60% of the ball maybe 50 away from home, ill have around 20 shots a game, mostly from distance, my team wont create 1 single clear cut chance and will often lose 1-0 to a scrappy corner or something after statistically dominating the game to a side who manage about 3 shots a game? what am i doing wrong here?? my team settings are set up as follows:

Balanced philosophy (something you also suggest) control strategy, passing set to shorter, closing down press more, high defensive line all seems logical yes? (if not please specify where)

Im really at a loss as to what im doing wrong here, all the players are in their natural positions, all in roles suited to them, all on duties suggested yet i watch the game and the football is horrible, players with 16-20 passing stats incapable of passing the ball 5 yards to a teammate, wingers dribbling the ball out of play (surely ME bugs??), my striker dosnt see a whiff of a chance whether i put him on poacher attack or DLF support, its just all really depressing and led to be totally ignoring the game for months, i started playing again about a week agao thinking maybe it would have been patched and the main problem was bugs, but nothings changed? what am i doing wrong? im perfectly happy to admit ive got a problem hence my posting here, i really do need help because obviously something in my above tactics is fundamentally very wrong, it must be given ive supposedly got world class players especially in the attacking areas of the pitch yet every match i cant make any clear chances and my main source of goals either come from one of my wingers dribbling past 7 men and scoring a belter or a corner, getting any sort of passing moves and creating through ball opportunitys is impossible, since i brought the game i haven't scored 1 single goal from a player playing a ball through to my striker, not 1, regardless of who i play as, i could have messi and it makes no difference.

My question is what am i doing wrong, im at the stage of accepting its me and not the ME's fault, so what? ive posted my tactics above, the roles and dutys i give my players what is it im doing wrong? any response with ideas would be greatly appreciated (as i speak just played away to porto in the CL, 23 shots to their 2 but didnt create anything clear cut, 13 long shots lost 1-0 id be more happy if my striker just had a stinker and missed 3 or 4 one on ones but my team dont create any chances, this is my main frustration, how do i get my team to create clear cut goalscoring chances? ive read that FM13 has introduced this collision thing whereby a simple lone forward cant just run onto a through ball and score, ok fine, but for me atleast it seems to have gone too far that way and now you cant ever pass through a defence.

[wwfan]

Don't have the time to go into detail at the moment, but at first glance it looks like the following is the main problem.

Your AM strata has three players pushing high (all attack duties). That will result in them getting in the way of the FC and reducing their own space in the final third. There will also be a disconnect with the deeper midfield who will be forced to play difficult passes to create chances, as nobody is dropping deeper to pick up the ball. This will be made worse by the short passing settings. Because of that, I suspect most of your chances will be cameo moves, in that a front four player will have to do something special to create a chance, rather than having it laid on a plate for him.

I'd look at playing Aguero as a CF/A, then have two of the AM strata players on support duty. Given you will then have three specialists, maybe a drop to rigid will also be worth considering.

[FMenthusiast]

Don't have the time to go into detail at the moment, but at first glance it looks like the following is the main problem.

Your AM strata has three players pushing high (all attack duties). That will result in them getting in the way of the FC and reducing their own space in the final third. There will also be a disconnect with the deeper midfield who will be forced to play difficult passes to create chances, as nobody is dropping deeper to pick up the ball. This will be made worse by the short passing settings. Because of that, I suspect most of your chances will be cameo moves, in that a front four player will have to do something special to create a chance, rather than having it laid on a plate for him.

I'd look at playing Aguero as a CF/A, then have two of the AM strata players on support duty. Given you will then have three specialists, maybe a drop to rigid will also be worth considering.

Thanks for the reply, i didnt originally have my AMC (Silva) on an attack duty, he was AP/Support and Aguero was DLF/attack, i switched because Aguero was just getting no chances nor was silva getting into any goalscoring positions and i thought having them this way round would result in them linking better as theyd be closer together on the pitch and my AMC making runs past my striker, plus im sure i read somehwere (may not have been this thread) that you have suggested that playing a lone striker in DLF support role works very well? maybe i got that wrong.

As for my wingers, i will try what you suggest but both Moura and Bale are all about speed and dribbling, neither are great passes/creators statistically, surely if i put one of them on a support duty itll stop them doing what they're best at ie running at full backs? Toure often gets very high as the box to box instructions on a control team mentality seem to put both his mentality and especially his creative freedom very high so its not really a case of my forwards being to far away from my central midfield, its just very much a case of no interplay and very poor passing, the number of times they simply play a woeful short pass that gets intercepted or even just hoof it out of play is staggering, i play a very high line sometimes max high with high pressing so a lot of the time my entire 11 is in the oppositions half so my team isnt split into defenders and attackers and huge gaps inbetween generally i have players between the lines at all times, its what they're doing with the ball thats the problem, or not doing as the case is.

As for Aguero, by CF im assuming you mean complete forward? does he have the stats to play that role i mean in the description of the complete forward aguero would seem to lack the strenth and physical attributes to play that role? ill give it a try though.

Its got to the point where id genuinly rather lose a match 3-0 and have multiple clear goal scoring chances and just blown them than have what i currently have, tedious games where basically nothing happens whatsoever until the inevitable AI goal.

Again thank you for your response i look forward to your suggestions when you have more time.

[FMenthusiast]

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Thats what im now currently using, changed the philosophy to rigid as suggested and set the roles as advised the only individual player sliders ive changed are their long shooting from often to rarely, not many players in my team have very good long shot stats so thought it made sense not to allow toure and co with a long shot stat of 10 trying his luck from 30 yards all the time.

Other than that all the player instruction sliders are left to what the TC thinks they should be.

[THOG]

I think wwfan's comment about going rigid had more to do with your use of a lot of specialist roles (which are intended to be used when you have a very specific idea of how you want that player to play... implying that you want to use a more disciplined, rigid approach), but with this particular set-up, I think it would actually make things worse as it will only widen the gulf between your very aggressive forward line and relatively conservative midfield. In general, you should think about what you really want to be emphasizing with a tactic and determine if you're supplying all the elements necessary to make it work.

In this case, based on your comments, I'm assuming you want the tactic to be based around Bale and Moura's pace and wingplay, but I think your strategy and role assignment is really inhibiting that. For one, you're pressing very high up with an aggressive strategy that uses very-advanced wingers; this means that Bale and Moura aren't going to have a lot of space to run into and they'll be tightly marked for most of the match, requiring them to perform some brilliant dribbling to even think of creating a chance. In that case, IMO, all that ability going into acceleration and pace is, for the most part, wasted. Additionally, on an attack duty, they'll be situated relatively far out on the flanks with the intention of looking for a cross... but their only real target is a small, 1.72m striker and, in some cases, an even smaller playmaker. Centrebacks are going to have no problem completely shutting them down given the kind of chances that this will create. On top of that, your two CMs have very limited passing settings... meaning that creativity from the middle is going to be coming from Silva who (as playmaker) will be the preferred passing target for Toure and De Rossi... but again, with Silva pushed so high up, he's going to have little room to work with and, if he gets man-marked by an opposing DM, your entire supply line to your forward line will be shut down. As for long shots, the way the game's decision-making works means that the frequency of desperate long shots are actually a fairly useful metric for the effectiveness of your tactic in a given match. Essentially, if you have several world class, high-decisions midfielders consistently attempting to score from distance, they're telling you that, in fact, that is the best option available and you need to tweak something else to get them to stop. Finally, De Rossi's talents are being totally wasted in such a limited role; you're also wasting one of the best attacking fullbacks in the world (Zabaleta) as part of an overly defensive back four.

So, basically, to get the best out of these players, you want to:

(a) Create room for Bale and Moura to use their acceleration and pace

(b) Offer a stronger, more combative attacking option to get at the end of their crosses

© Free up Silva so he can move around more easily and has time to pick out better passes

(d) Not waste Zabaleta in a role better suited for Micah Richards

Now, there's obviously many ways to do that, but I'll provide one example below:

In regards to (a), I would go for a strategy change. Counter would work well as it will make your side look to attack at pace, but if that breaks down, they will be much more methodical and work the ball into the box with your dribblers. With (b), you will want to get a powerful player into the box, but rather than switching Aguero for Dzeko, you can simply put Toure into an attacking role, especially since he has the stamina to double as both a constant attacking threat and a consistent contributor in defence. This will give Bale/Moura another option from out wide while also opening up space for Aguero. For ©, I'd drop Silva back to CM and set him as a box-to-box midfielder. This will make him a free-roaming shuttler who can draw out and then bypass defenders, and since he's not much of a threat in front of goal, you're not really losing anything by having him drop deeper and providing the link between de Rossi and the attacking midfielders. I would also put Moura on support duty since he's a good passer and not-so-good crosser; this will make the most of his creative ability and mean you're less likely to find all your passing options cut off if an attack breaks down... but as an AMR, he'll still get forward like you want on the break. For (d), I would drop Rossi into the DM position and make him the playmaker as a DLP (D). De Rossi has the ability to operate as both you're main midfield defender and first creative outlet, so this will make full use of his full range of abilities. I would make Zabaleta an attacking fullback, so he'll overlap Moura and provide an extra man going forward. Finally, set tackling back to default (no need to risk knocks and one-on-ones), deactivate the target man setting and turn long shots back to their default settings.

So in summary:

Rigid/Counter

Passing - Shorter

Pressing - More

GK (Goalkeeper - Defend)

DL (Fullback - Support)

CB (Central Defender - Defend)

CB (Central Defender - Defend)

DR (Fullback - Attack)

DMC (Deep Playmaker - Defend)

CML (Box-to-Box - Support)

CMR (Central Midfielder - Attack)

AML (Winger - Attack)

AMR (Winger - Support)

ST (Complete Forward - Attack)

Against smaller sides, I would combine this with the Push Higher Up, Play Wider and Play Out of Defence shouts (though if you use the latter, you'll need to manually set de Rossi's passing back to Mixed so he doesn't just become a glorified anchor man).

This isn't the way I'd play City, but that's more of an issue of personal preference. Anyway, I think something like this would play more like I think you want your side to play.

[FMenthusiast]

I think wwfan's comment about going rigid had more to do with your use of a lot of specialist roles (which are intended to be used when you have a very specific idea of how you want that player to play... implying that you want to use a more disciplined, rigid approach), but with this particular set-up, I think it would actually make things worse as it will only widen the gulf between your very aggressive forward line and relatively conservative midfield. In general, you should think about what you really want to be emphasizing with a tactic and determine if you're supplying all the elements necessary to make it work.

In this case, based on your comments, I'm assuming you want the tactic to be based around Bale and Moura's pace and wingplay, but I think your strategy and role assignment is really inhibiting that. For one, you're pressing very high up with an aggressive strategy that uses very-advanced wingers; this means that Bale and Moura aren't going to have a lot of space to run into and they'll be tightly marked for most of the match, requiring them to perform some brilliant dribbling to even think of creating a chance. In that case, IMO, all that ability going into acceleration and pace is, for the most part, wasted. Additionally, on an attack duty, they'll be situated relatively far out on the flanks with the intention of looking for a cross... but their only real target is a small, 1.72m striker and, in some cases, an even smaller playmaker. Centrebacks are going to have no problem completely shutting them down given the kind of chances that this will create. On top of that, your two CMs have very limited passing settings... meaning that creativity from the middle is going to be coming from Silva who (as playmaker) will be the preferred passing target for Toure and De Rossi... but again, with Silva pushed so high up, he's going to have little room to work with and, if he gets man-marked by an opposing DM, your entire supply line to your forward line will be shut down. As for long shots, the way the game's decision-making works means that the frequency of desperate long shots are actually a fairly useful metric for the effectiveness of your tactic in a given match. Essentially, if you have several world class, high-decisions midfielders consistently attempting to score from distance, they're telling you that, in fact, that is the best option available and you need to tweak something else to get them to stop. Finally, De Rossi's talents are being totally wasted in such a limited role; you're also wasting one of the best attacking fullbacks in the world (Zabaleta) as part of an overly defensive back four.

So, basically, to get the best out of these players, you want to:

(a) Create room for Bale and Moura to use their acceleration and pace

(b) Offer a stronger, more combative attacking option to get at the end of their crosses

© Free up Silva so he can move around more easily and has time to pick out better passes

(d) Not waste Zabaleta in a role better suited for Micah Richards

Now, there's obviously many ways to do that, but I'll provide one example below:

In regards to (a), I would go for a strategy change. Counter would work well as it will make your side look to attack at pace, but if that breaks down, they will be much more methodical and work the ball into the box with your dribblers. With (b), you will want to get a powerful player into the box, but rather than switching Aguero for Dzeko, you can simply put Toure into an attacking role, especially since he has the stamina to double as both a constant attacking threat and a consistent contributor in defence. This will give Bale/Moura another option from out wide while also opening up space for Aguero. For ©, I'd drop Silva back to CM and set him as a box-to-box midfielder. This will make him a free-roaming shuttler who can draw out and then bypass defenders, and since he's not much of a threat in front of goal, you're not really losing anything by having him drop deeper and providing the link between de Rossi and the attacking midfielders. I would also put Moura on support duty since he's a good passer and not-so-good crosser; this will make the most of his creative ability and mean you're less likely to find all your passing options cut off if an attack breaks down... but as an AMR, he'll still get forward like you want on the break. For (d), I would drop Rossi into the DM position and make him the playmaker as a DLP (D). De Rossi has the ability to operate as both you're main midfield defender and first creative outlet, so this will make full use of his full range of abilities. I would make Zabaleta an attacking fullback, so he'll overlap Moura and provide an extra man going forward. Finally, set tackling back to default (no need to risk knocks and one-on-ones), deactivate the target man setting and turn long shots back to their default settings.

So in summary:

Rigid/Counter

Passing - Shorter

Pressing - More

GK (Goalkeeper - Defend)

DL (Fullback - Support)

CB (Central Defender - Defend)

CB (Central Defender - Defend)

DR (Fullback - Attack)

DMC (Deep Playmaker - Defend)

CML (Box-to-Box - Support)

CMR (Central Midfielder - Attack)

AML (Winger - Attack)

AMR (Winger - Support)

ST (Complete Forward - Attack)

Against smaller sides, I would combine this with the Push Higher Up, Play Wider and Play Out of Defence shouts (though if you use the latter, you'll need to manually set de Rossi's passing back to Mixed so he doesn't just become a glorified anchor man).

This isn't the way I'd play City, but that's more of an issue of personal preference. Anyway, I think something like this would play more like I think you want your side to play.

Thank you for your post, i think from both reading that and spending many hours reading about the tactics this year all those previous fm games i was so comfortable on wasnt because i had a scooby about tactics and more i got lucky with a combination of a flawed ME and great players! depressing really but onto your post:

I see what your saying and when its put like that i can see many reasons why my tactic was failing, a few things though, you say Silva is to high up to receive the ball and create chances etc, but isnt that the whole point of having a support duty in that role so he ISNT to far forward and does drop back to pick up the ball? i wanted him to be picking up the ball in areas where he could hurt the opposition through his brilliant passing and creativity, i thought that role combined with supporting duty would allow that. Also you say to deactivate the target man specifier in the team instructions tab, can i ask (as i have no idea) what changes this makes? tbh ive always just selected them by default in every game ie my best striker whos either short and technical id pass to feet, if hes quick id set to run onto ball and if hes a dzeko esk lump id set to pass to head etc, it just seemed the logical way to go? what difference is there if i remove the TM setting? does it mean my attack dosnt always look to him as the first point of a forward pass? id really be interested in the difference between having a TM specified and not.

I will use a lot of what youve said in that post and will hopefully get better results, you seem to have a very good understanding of the TC and the tactics in general (much more than i do anyway) so i have 1 or 2 more questions (sorry!) i started up a new save a couple of days ago basically the polar opposite of the one i was struggling with above, took some ideas from another forum on a 3-5-2 system, NEVER played that way in any FM but seeing as nothing else worked i gave it a go, its been going pretty well although still very early days, the footballs better and im creating CCC through passing moves rather than individual magic or set plays, but i have 1 major flaw im struggling to fathom (yes only 1 i hear you say!?)

This is the tactic:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1565/manchestercitytacticsov.png

Having trouble linking that hope you can see it ok?

Basically when in possession my 3 centre backs have no passing options, what happens is my GK will roll the ball out to one of them (as instructed i like to play out from the back) and at the precise moment one of my defenders receives the ball both my Wing backs (set on support dutys as you can hopefully see) bomb forward down each flank, my Mcd which happens to be Toure in this instance dosnt drop and show for the ball although this is maybe largely to do with his preferred moves stipulating hes a very forward thinking player and not really suited to the role at all, but still if i tell a player to do something i would expect him to do it, although i have dropped toure for a more defensive minded midfield player and the problem persists not because he dosnt drop but because of the number of opposition attackers crowding him out, this is graphically the best way to show you what the problem is:

-----------------------------GK

-----------------------DC- DC- DC

--------------- P/A-----------P/A---------P/A

-----WB----------------------MC/d-------------------WB

P/A is the pressing opposition attack players, ive used 3 as an example but it can and often is 4 or 5 at times, as you can see the opposition pressing results in the passing option out to the wing backs becoming blocked off because they run to far forward the moment my DC receives the ball, now unless i put both wing backs on a defend duty (hardly ideal as then in this system id have zero width in an attacking sense) i dont see a solution to this problem? my most defensive central midfield also becomes an unplayable pass because even when he does drop deep because of the 3 or 4 pressing opposition front players my centre backs deem him a pass not on, to risky because hes being marked or whatever and so cant use him, basically this results in my 3 dcs taking it in random turns to slowly jog with the ball out to the touchline before hoofing it up field, out of play completely or losing the ball because they have no passing options and get caught on it, i dont know how to find a way of passing the ball out of defence without either changing the system or going route 1 from the keeper, im almost accepting im probably going to have to get my keeper to play it long which im loathed to do but see little choice, is there something i can do to remedy this? do you or does anyone have any ideas?

Its incredibly frustrating because on the rare occasion i do get the ball into midfield my team play some really good stuff, ive scored some very nice interplay goals and for the first time ever on this years version creating clear cut chances through good team passing play hence why i really wish i could sort out the problem at the back.

Would making one of my defence a ball playing defender help? maybe give him greater passing range (they're all by default on either short or low mixed) maybe too short with no passing options is the problem, but then if i give them more passing freedom when none of them have particularly good passing stats will that just result in furthering the problem with more punting up the pitch?, at the moment my 3 centre backs turn over possession far to often and i really dont know what to do about it.

[FMenthusiast]

Thank you for your post, i think from both reading that and spending many hours reading about the tactics this year all those previous fm games i was so comfortable on wasnt because i had a scooby about tactics and more i got lucky with a combination of a flawed ME and great players! depressing really but onto your post:

I see what your saying and when its put like that i can see many reasons why my tactic was failing, a few things though, you say Silva is to high up to receive the ball and create chances etc, but isnt that the whole point of having a support duty in that role so he ISNT to far forward and does drop back to pick up the ball? i wanted him to be picking up the ball in areas where he could hurt the opposition through his brilliant passing and creativity, i thought that role combined with supporting duty would allow that. Also you say to deactivate the target man specifier in the team instructions tab, can i ask (as i have no idea) what changes this makes? tbh ive always just selected them by default in every game ie my best striker whos either short and technical id pass to feet, if hes quick id set to run onto ball and if hes a dzeko esk lump id set to pass to head etc, it just seemed the logical way to go? what difference is there if i remove the TM setting? does it mean my attack dosnt always look to him as the first point of a forward pass? id really be interested in the difference between having a TM specified and not.

Out of great interest how would you line up and play if you were manager at City?

I will use a lot of what youve said in that post and will hopefully get better results, you seem to have a very good understanding of the TC and the tactics in general (much more than i do anyway) so i have 1 or 2 more questions (sorry!) i started up a new save a couple of days ago basically the polar opposite of the one i was struggling with above, took some ideas from another forum on a 3-5-2 system, NEVER played that way in any FM but seeing as nothing else worked i gave it a go, its been going pretty well although still very early days, the footballs better and im creating CCC through passing moves rather than individual magic or set plays, but i have 1 major flaw im struggling to fathom (yes only 1 i hear you say!?)

This is the tactic:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1565/manchestercitytacticsov.png

Having trouble linking that hope you can see it ok?

Basically when in possession my 3 centre backs have no passing options, what happens is my GK will roll the ball out to one of them (as instructed i like to play out from the back) and at the precise moment one of my defenders receives the ball both my Wing backs (set on support dutys as you can hopefully see) bomb forward down each flank, my Mcd which happens to be Toure in this instance dosnt drop and show for the ball although this is maybe largely to do with his preferred moves stipulating hes a very forward thinking player and not really suited to the role at all, but still if i tell a player to do something i would expect him to do it, although i have dropped toure for a more defensive minded midfield player and the problem persists not because he dosnt drop but because of the number of opposition attackers crowding him out, this is graphically the best way to show you what the problem is:

----------------------------GK

---------------------DC----DC---DC

---------------P/A---------P/A---------P/A

----WB-----------------MC/d-------------------WB

P/A is the pressing opposition attack players, ive used 3 as an example but it can and often is 4 or 5 at times, as you can see the opposition pressing results in the passing option out to the wing backs becoming blocked off because they run to far forward the moment my DC receives the ball, now unless i put both wing backs on a defend duty (hardly ideal as then in this system id have zero width in an attacking sense) i dont see a solution to this problem? my most defensive central midfield also becomes an unplayable pass because even when he does drop deep because of the 3 or 4 pressing opposition front players my centre backs deem him a pass not on, to risky because hes being marked or whatever and so cant use him, basically this results in my 3 dcs taking it in random turns to slowly jog with the ball out to the touchline before hoofing it up field, out of play completely or losing the ball because they have no passing options and get caught on it, i dont know how to find a way of passing the ball out of defence without either changing the system or going route 1 from the keeper, im almost accepting im probably going to have to get my keeper to play it long which im loathed to do but see little choice, is there something i can do to remedy this? do you or does anyone have any ideas?

Its incredibly frustrating because on the rare occasion i do get the ball into midfield my team play some really good stuff, ive scored some very nice interplay goals and for the first time ever on this years version creating clear cut chances through good team passing play hence why i really wish i could sort out the problem at the back.

Would making one of my defence a ball playing defender help? maybe give him greater passing range (they're all by default on either short or low mixed) maybe too short with no passing options is the problem, but then if i give them more passing freedom when none of them have particularly good passing stats will that just result in furthering the problem with more punting up the pitch?, at the moment my 3 centre backs turn over possession far to often and i really dont know what to do about it.

[THOG]

I see what your saying and when its put like that i can see many reasons why my tactic was failing, a few things though, you say Silva is to high up to receive the ball and create chances etc, but isnt that the whole point of having a support duty in that role so he ISNT to far forward and does drop back to pick up the ball? i wanted him to be picking up the ball in areas where he could hurt the opposition through his brilliant passing and creativity, i thought that role combined with supporting duty would allow that.

Well, you can do that, but I wouldn't specify him as a playmaker. Mainly, any ACM in a high-pressing system is probably going to be contending with at least one holding midfielder at all times with little space to work in, even if they are dropping in the hole, and in that case, they're not consistently going to be in a good position to receive a pass; so, if you set them as playmaker, you're instructing the rest of your team to constantly funnel the ball through a player that is going to be struggling to find any space whatsoever. So if your ACM is just having a bad day or is being marked by a holding player simply having a competent day, your main supply line to your forward line is going to be shut down for much of the match. As wwfan noted earlier in this thread:

Likewise, as point eleven suggests, an AP in an Attacking strategy is a waste of time, as he gets too far ahead of play to pull any strings. If you want a playmaker, employ a DLP, as he'll tend to sit a little deeper and dictate the game. If your FBs are on Support duties, he'll interact with them behind the five players looking for space in and around the box, whereas if they are on Attack duties, they'll often be too far forward for him to use and he'll be isolated.

As for target men, IMO, their main function is to deal with limitations among your attacking players or to counter a specific aspect of your opponents' tactics. For example, the classic target man is the big guy who receives and holds up long passes to play onto a more limited, smaller poacher-type striker that you don't want attempting aerial challenges. Alternately, if you're playing against an aggressive side with a high line and you have a very pacy striker, you might specify him as target man with "runs onto ball" to consistently exploit your opponent's obvious tactical weakness. But in general, activating the target man setting means that everyone will be looking to constantly involve that player in the attack and, in this case, that could cause three problems:

(1) Since clubs will usually play defensively against City, most of your players are going to be struggling to find space. Accordingly, you want to diversify your attacking play as much as possible which, as a super club, is a luxury you can afford since virtually everyone in your midfield is a significant goal threat. It's basically the same issue that you had with the advanced playmaker. You're setting your side to focus the ball through one player, artificially limiting the options available and making it easier for the opposition to shut down your attacks.

(2) By specifying a specific supply method, you're again artificially limiting the chances created, even if those aren't the best chances. While it may be the case that it's usually best to play the ball to Aguero's feet, it may not always be the case, and you don't want your players playing to his feet when, for example, a through ball might be a better option. This is particularly the case if, as is the case with City, you have highly intelligent midfielders who can be trusted to pick out the best option. IMO, the supply method option is mainly there to ensure that less capable of midfielders don't pick poor options too often.

(3) Since you're playing one striker alongside two wingers who are placed out fairly wide, this option may actually cause Aguero to receive the ball too early (as is the case with a traditional hold-up target man who is intended to play the ball forward for wingers and a poacher)... in which case, Aguero will find himself on the ball with two players out wide and no one ahead of him in the box.

But again, generally, I would avoid using the target man option unless your tactics mean you have a good reason to funnel the ball through a particular forward or your opponent has an obvious weakness that you want to target.

Out of great interest how would you line up and play if you were manager at City?

It would take a while for me to figure out, but I would almost certainly use inverted wingers with Zabaleta and Kolorav as attacking wingbacks in a 4-2-3-1. But again, that's more of an aesthetic thing since I just don't really like traditional wingers.

I will use a lot of what youve said in that post and will hopefully get better results, you seem to have a very good understanding of the TC and the tactics in general (much more than i do anyway) so i have 1 or 2 more questions (sorry!) i started up a new save a couple of days ago basically the polar opposite of the one i was struggling with above, took some ideas from another forum on a 3-5-2 system, NEVER played that way in any FM but seeing as nothing else worked i gave it a go, its been going pretty well although still very early days, the footballs better and im creating CCC through passing moves rather than individual magic or set plays, but i have 1 major flaw im struggling to fathom (yes only 1 i hear you say!?)

The main problem is that FM isn't set up to model 3-man defences yet. The CBs stay bunched up together when the wide two should be splitting and positioning themselves closer to the flanks, dragging the opposition attackers wide (or stranding them in the middle) and passing up the flanks to the wingbacks. In fact, they should be doing this in every tactic with aggressive full/wingbacks with defend-duty DMs dropping deeper in a Busquets role, but the ME just isn't programmed to handle it.

But as a short-term fix, I would set one of your strikers to support duty so he hangs back and your midfielders aren't encouraged to run into the huge area of space that your forward-running strikers are going to be leaving behind. I also wouldn't hesitate to drop both your CMs into the DM position. Without CMs ahead of them, DMs will operate like the sort of deeper, slightly more cautious CMs you want. Of course, this means you'll want your ACM on an attack-duty since DMs don't have attack-duty roles. You might also try setting your two wide CBs to a stopper-duty so they're more willing to attempt riskier passes.

[FMenthusiast]

Well, you can do that, but I wouldn't specify him as a playmaker. Mainly, any ACM in a high-pressing system is probably going to be contending with at least one holding midfielder at all times with little space to work in, even if they are dropping in the hole, and in that case, they're not consistently going to be in a good position to receive a pass; so, if you set them as playmaker, you're instructing the rest of your team to constantly funnel the ball through a player that is going to be struggling to find any space whatsoever. So if your ACM is just having a bad day or is being marked by a holding player simply having a competent day, your main supply line to your forward line is going to be shut down for much of the match. As wwfan noted earlier in this thread:

Ok that makes sense, i think it once again comes back to me simply thinking that using him as a playmaker with his skill set it seemd a logical move to assign him as such, not really taking into consideration the style of football id be attempting to play, his position on the field and how theopposition would counter it, i also see how having a DLP is often a better way to go as he will get the extra time and space the AMC wont, it makes me wonder how all these basic flaws worked fine in previous versions and how big a jump FM13 is from every previous version ive played.

As for target men, IMO, their main function is to deal with limitations among your attacking players or to counter a specific aspect of your opponents' tactics. For example, the classic target man is the big guy who receives and holds up long passes to play onto a more limited, smaller poacher-type striker that you don't want attempting aerial challenges. Alternately, if you're playing against an aggressive side with a high line and you have a very pacy striker, you might specify him as target man with "runs onto ball" to consistently exploit your opponent's obvious tactical weakness. But in general, activating the target man setting means that everyone will be looking to constantly involve that player in the attack and, in this case, that could cause three problems:

(1) Since clubs will usually play defensively against City, most of your players are going to be struggling to find space. Accordingly, you want to diversify your attacking play as much as possible which, as a super club, is a luxury you can afford since virtually everyone in your midfield is a significant goal threat. It's basically the same issue that you had with the advanced playmaker. You're setting your side to focus the ball through one player, artificially limiting the options available and making it easier for the opposition to shut down your attacks.

(2) By specifying a specific supply method, you're again artificially limiting the chances created, even if those aren't the best chances. While it may be the case that it's usually best to play the ball to Aguero's feet, it may not always be the case, and you don't want your players playing to his feet when, for example, a through ball might be a better option. This is particularly the case if, as is the case with City, you have highly intelligent midfielders who can be trusted to pick out the best option. IMO, the supply method option is mainly there to ensure that less capable of midfielders don't pick poor options too often.

(3) Since you're playing one striker alongside two wingers who are placed out fairly wide, this option may actually cause Aguero to receive the ball too early (as is the case with a traditional hold-up target man who is intended to play the ball forward for wingers and a poacher)... in which case, Aguero will find himself on the ball with two players out wide and no one ahead of him in the box.

But again, generally, I would avoid using the target man option unless your tactics mean you have a good reason to funnel the ball through a particular forward or your opponent has an obvious weakness that you want to target.

So basically especially when playing with a strong team its best to avoid ticking the target man checkboxes as it limits my team doing what they fully capable of? for instance as of now on my new save ive set Yaya Toure playing in central midfield as a DLP as my playmaker, that would be a far better way to go?

The main problem is that FM isn't set up to model 3-man defences yet. The CBs stay bunched up together when the wide two should be splitting and positioning themselves closer to the flanks, dragging the opposition attackers wide (or stranding them in the middle) and passing up the flanks to the wingbacks. In fact, they should be doing this in every tactic with aggressive full/wingbacks with defend-duty DMs dropping deeper in a Busquets role, but the ME just isn't programmed to handle it.

But as a short-term fix, I would set one of your strikers to support duty so he hangs back and your midfielders aren't encouraged to run into the huge area of space that your forward-running strikers are going to be leaving behind. I also wouldn't hesitate to drop both your CMs into the DM position. Without CMs ahead of them, DMs will operate like the sort of deeper, slightly more cautious CMs you want. Of course, this means you'll want your ACM on an attack-duty since DMs don't have attack-duty roles. You might also try setting your two wide CBs to a stopper-duty so they're more willing to attempt riskier passes.

Ahh i wasnt aware of that, i did wonder why my back 3 seemed glued together, ive kind of solved the issue to a degree by moving my wingbacks up to wide midfielders, again on support duty but they're far less attacking and instead of their trigger movement being a forward run from deep they look to come back from higher up which gives my defence atleast a better chance of finding them and not hoofing it upfield, i think the main problem i have is my midfield is unbalanced in the sense that they're all primarily forward thinking players, not one of them has a ''come deep to get ball PPM, in hindsight i shouldnt have signed wilshere but more a defensive deep creative player in the Alonso mould and allowed Toure his freedom to go forward, but im stuck with it now so just have to make the best of it.

The way im playing now is as 'basic' as ive ever played any FM, i used to spend hours on tactics and sliders and whatnot but now ive literally left mostly everything to default except the philosophy which ive set to rigid, then when im in game i change the strategy depending on who im playing and whats going on, it seems a much better way to go although a lot of the shouts i dont understand, by that i mean i get what 'pass into space means' or should i say i get what it means to me but what i dont know is what instructions that implements on my players, the one thing ive learned is my interpretation of football lingo differs greatly to the TC, i had a moment in my last game where my DMC DLP somehow ended up with a higher attacking mentality than my centre forwards! yet all id done was use 2 or 3 shouts which i thought worked best on the counter attack strategy! thats another thing im going to have to read up on and try and get a better understanding of, what the shouts make my players do, itreally isnt just a case of telling them to pass into space and seeing them play balls in behind and ahead of front players all the time etc it seems to greatly affect so many things, another thing is i guess im unsure on the whole when and what shouts to use in most situations, for example if im away to a strong side id typically play on the counter attack id probably use shouts such as pass into space maybe drop deeper to encourage the opposition forward and create larger gaps? but i wouldnt be sure if that was right, nor would i be sure what to do if i was taking a hammering territorial wise, i mean do you drop off, do you hassle, do you fight fire with fire and attack, and if so what shouts do you use what do they then change etc, things i thought i new i dont because the interpretation is so different, from reading this thread alone what i personally took for a counter attacking strategy is totally different to what the game thinks a counter strategy is.

Another thing that i find very confusing is the opposition instructions, not for what they themselves do but how they affect your team style, for instance if i shout to my team to stand off opponents or stay on feet because im giving away too many fouls and getting skinned by quick skilled players that dosnt make any difference if in the OI's ive told my team to aggressively tackle player x y and z, if im telling my team to always close down the oppositions winger yet ive shouted to stand off what takes priority? surely that just leads to mixed messages and a totally disjointed team open to a mauling?

Sorry for bolding my comments by the way im not sure how to individually quote the stuff i want to reply to.

[Blancos]

A Little Context

The result was designing a tighter mentality system, which has worked ever since. From that point on, I've never had to change my underlying logic (coherent mentality system + forward runs/run from deep pattern = solid tactical structure). From FM07 - FM13, this has run true. Since FM10 and the introduction of the TC, the AI teams have also used the same logic (albeit without the creative alternatives a user manager can try out).

I know I've read those words before (maybe at the time of TT&F greatness), but now that I need it for building my concept of attacking depth/attacking in layers, I lost it .

I still remember points about grouping mentality slider (so the formation will be more coherent), and I already use the knowledge in my tactic. But I forgot about how the FWR/RFD and RWB connecting to this "solid tactic". Can someone help me with this structured FWR/RFD and RWB guide?

And from the TT&F times, I also remember about slider contradiction, i.e "Often RFD" will logically contradicted with "Often RWB", so the player will decided for himself whether he will dribbling the ball when we saw that it's better for him to just running for space, because we gave him the same 50% chance to do those instruction. The same example (as I remember) is "Often TTB" will logically contradicted with "Often Longshot", so there are many times when we feel "Ooww, come on, dude... Pass it, don't blast it out".

Does the concept still actual for FM 2013?

[wwfan]

I wouldn't worry about slider contradiction.

FWR basically relates to getting the duty combinations working. As long as they are balanced, you'll be fine.

[Wizard boy]

Im looking for a guide that tells you what stats you need for player positions? im sure there must be one that someone has done.

[Crispypaul]

Im looking for a guide that tells you what stats you need for player positions? im sure there must be one that someone has done.

I think you can do this in game now, though? As whichever role you choose for a player should also highlight the relevant attributes needed.

[Blancos]

I wouldn't worry about slider contradiction.

FWR basically relates to getting the duty combinations working. As long as they are balanced, you'll be fine.

Ok, then how can you have depth in your attacking structure? I balanced my tactic enough, so the supporting roles are more than the attacking roles, but it seemed like my players going "gung-ho", swarming the frontline in useless, ineffective single line (my strategy is Control, already). How can I make two or three layers/waves of attack?

[Guest]

Control is quite an attacking mentality, try standard to see how that works & maybe even reduce the run from deep instruction for your central midfield players (this includes any AMC's), they'll still get forward to join attacks but will not run ahead of the ball as often which is generally the problem most people have..

[Blancos]

Control is quite an attacking mentality, try standard to see how that works & maybe even reduce the run from deep instruction for your central midfield players (this includes any AMC's), they'll still get forward to join attacks but will not run ahead of the ball as often which is generally the problem most people have..

Aaaahhh I see... Thanks for reminding me, that Control isn't a independent strategy, but a form of an attacking one. The name "Control" is easy to be misinterpreted to Standard. I'll try your suggestion right away.

About the player instructions, I generally defined them in two general instructions: Off the ball (like RFD, Marking, etc), and with the ball (TTB, Longshot, RWB, etc). Nowadays, I try to implement a simple logic that when a player have the ball, he can do ONE THING ONLY in one time: Dribbling, or passing (crossing), or shooting. Which one the player will do, he must DECIDE (it's Decision, then), since he can't choose more than one. But, does FM simply put that responsibility to the player's decision attribute alone? Or does FM gives us the manager a chance to affected/influenced that player's decision making?

My simple logic thinks that since FM gives us many sliders in player instruction, maybe FM DOES GIVE us that chance (maybe). It means we can affected/influenced our players to emphasize one thing above other things, i.e "to pass more than to shoot", or "to dribble more than to pass", etc. My question is: DOES FM 13 ME really give us that influence power?

[BiggusD]

Aaaahhh I see... Thanks for reminding me, that Control isn't a independent strategy, but a form of an attacking one. The name "Control" is easy to be misinterpreted to Standard. I'll try your suggestion right away.

About the player instructions, I generally defined them in two general instructions: Off the ball (like RFD, Marking, etc), and with the ball (TTB, Longshot, RWB, etc). Nowadays, I try to implement a simple logic that when a player have the ball, he can do ONE THING ONLY in one time: Dribbling, or passing (crossing), or shooting. Which one the player will do, he must DECIDE (it's Decision, then), since he can't choose more than one. But, does FM simply put that responsibility to the player's decision attribute alone? Or does FM gives us the manager a chance to affected/influenced that player's decision making?

My simple logic thinks that since FM gives us many sliders in player instruction, maybe FM DOES GIVE us that chance (maybe). It means we can affected/influenced our players to emphasize one thing above other things, i.e "to pass more than to shoot", or "to dribble more than to pass", etc. My question is: DOES FM 13 ME really give us that influence power?

Yes. Overly so.

A player who is told to Cross Often will do so even though it is not a good idea. The same with all the other sliders. This is especially important to get right with the Run from Deep slider because it is mis-named. It should be called Run Timing in my opinion. At Rarely, the player will wait a very long time before running forward. At Sometimes he will wait a little, and at Often he won't wait at all. This seems completely irrespective of whether it is a good idea or not as far as I can tell. You would believe that Sometimes means that the player will decide for himself when he should run forward or stay back, but he doesn't.

This means that a RfD Often player will bolt forward as soon as you get the ball and bounce into the offside line/closest defender until the first few phases of the attack is over. Good players might then try to drop deep again to make themselves available, but I think this happens rather rarely. Naturally, this is not a good idea if you play slow possession football. This makes me wonder what all this advice about one player on A, one on S and one on D in one tier is all about because if your WR is set to Attack and your WL is set to Support, your right side would have to play direct, quick football and the left side short, slow football if there should be any use for that RfD Often setting. To me that is just silly.

If you want your quick right winger to challenge on his side often in order to cross into the box, while your more creative left winger is more of a playmaker type, then you must make sure that he has more than one or two comrades to cross to by the time he reaches the byline. Your support left winger will then arrive too late, and if you have set one of your central midfielders to Attack duty he might get there in time, but that sounds like a dodgy midfield to me - with only one player holding back the full backs (assuming a 442 here) would have to join the midfield early to help that defensive midfielder out. So this is a very attacking tactic yes. There might still be only two or three players in the box when he crosses so the risk of a quick breakaway is high. In any case, if the opposition was just on your half this is more than fine - your attacking right winger has two-three players to cross to and they are moving and the opposition midfield might not have managed to turn back. This is dangerous stuff. On the other hand, if they were staying back, being in-formation and all, your right winger is marked out of the game unless his comrade boots the ball to him immidiately.

In my opinion, if you have a strong side which is often the favourite, having midfielders set to Attack duty is unlikely to be the best way of creating chances, at least if you use a flat 442 formation. I have seen often enough that a winger on support duty is more available for a pass than a winger on attack duty - and by doing so he will have created space for himself (and his teammates up front) allowing him to challenge the full back more often if he has the skills and the PPMs.

If you want to dominate in a game, you need to make sure that as many players as possible make themselves available for a pass at any given time. You do that by playing on Standard or Counter mentality with few players set to Attack duty. And yes, FM13 is that robotic. In its defense it has to be if people are to feel they actually influence the way their team is playing football.

To me that is an insignificant concern. If I could I would have set all my players to do what they feel is best in any given situation, according to their skillset and that of their teammates.

Makes me wonder why SI has done all this work to limit the efficiency of "one-trick pony" tactics from the past. If it is generally accepted that a striker partnership should have one player lurk on the offside line as a poacher and the other look to drop deep and hold up the ball; that one winger should look to bypass his full back to cross and the other help out the midfield and enter the box late; that one central midfielder should remain in the back and win challenges while the other runs forward to help the strikers; that one full back should go for an overlap while the other helps out the central defenders; and that those central defenders should split into one guy being responsible to charge his man while the other drops off for safety - then that is really just a bunch of "one-trick ponies" bundled together. Not exactly Total Football no.

[wwfan]

I don't agree with that. That is only a basic way to play. It's perfectly possible to put together a far more complex pattern of duties and roles and still do extremely well.

What the FM13 engine does is punish bad (illogical or one-dimensional) tactics more than any engine preceding it. That does not conflate to it only rewarding one type of good tactic. As long as there is some logical thought in how a tactic attacks multi-dimesnionally and defends as a unit, then it will do well. You don't even need multi-dimensional attacking at the lower levels.

[Blancos]

If you want to dominate in a game, you need to make sure that as many players as possible make themselves available for a pass at any given time. You do that by playing on Standard or Counter mentality with few players set to Attack duty. And yes, FM13 is that robotic. In its defense it has to be if people are to feel they actually influence the way their team is playing football.

To me that is an insignificant concern. If I could I would have set all my players to do what they feel is best in any given situation, according to their skillset and that of their teammates.

Well... To me, it's very significant concern. Because in the reality, players is like an eleven machine parts, that a manager should arrange in the best configuration he can. The player can play better football on himself than his manager, but only the manager who can play eleven different capabilities as one solid force. It's our job, it's our responsibility (in the game). And that's why I need to understand how to tell the players everything I feel they need to perform as a complete, unified team.

What the FM13 engine does is punish bad (illogical or one-dimensional) tactics more than any engine preceding it. That does not conflate to it only rewarding one type of good tactic. As long as there is some logical thought in how a tactic attacks multi-dimesnionally and defends as a unit, then it will do well. You don't even need multi-dimensional attacking at the lower levels.

I thought I read these words a lot. I hope you don't mind to explain to me about what this "one-dimension tactics" means

[wwfan]

I thought I read these words a lot. I hope you don't mind to explain to me about what this "one-dimension tactics" means

Basically a tactic that's almost 100% reliant on one player scoring hatfuls of goals, with nobody else contributing very much.

[BiggusD]

Well... To me, it's very significant concern. Because in the reality, players is like an eleven machine parts, that a manager should arrange in the best configuration he can. The player can play better football on himself than his manager, but only the manager who can play eleven different capabilities as one solid force. It's our job, it's our responsibility (in the game). And that's why I need to understand how to tell the players everything I feel they need to perform as a complete, unified team.

I thought I read these words a lot. I hope you don't mind to explain to me about what this "one-dimension tactics" means

Yeah, that is what I am talking about - as opposed to relying on your AP for all through-balls/key passes, your right winger for all crosses, your target man for link-ups to the midfield and your stopper to win challenges while the cover defender sweeps up the rest. That's not a unified team; that's a bunch of individual specialists each responsible for a small part of the whole. If you then close down the AP, have a stronger defender than the TM and a quicker FB than the W-A all avenues are secured and locked down. If, however, all four guys up front are responsible for both chance creation and finishing them, you will be much harder to stop. In my opinion, this shouldn't be done just by buying players who can do that, but by enabling them to do so through instructions that leave the decision of cross/run/pass/shoot up to them as much as posible.

I think the nature of the rarely/sometimes/often sliders prevent this from happening because they don't do what they say on the tin directly. They should have nothing to do with run timing, but rather the decision to run in the first place.

[Blancos]

Basically a tactic that's almost 100% reliant on one player scoring hatfuls of goals, with nobody else contributing very much.

Yeah, that is what I am talking about - as opposed to relying on your AP for all through-balls/key passes, your right winger for all crosses, your target man for link-ups to the midfield and your stopper to win challenges while the cover defender sweeps up the rest. That's not a unified team; that's a bunch of individual specialists each responsible for a small part of the whole. If you then close down the AP, have a stronger defender than the TM and a quicker FB than the W-A all avenues are secured and locked down. If, however, all four guys up front are responsible for both chance creation and finishing them, you will be much harder to stop. In my opinion, this shouldn't be done just by buying players who can do that, but by enabling them to do so through instructions that leave the decision of cross/run/pass/shoot up to them as much as posible.

I think the nature of the rarely/sometimes/often sliders prevent this from happening because they don't do what they say on the tin directly. They should have nothing to do with run timing, but rather the decision to run in the first place.

I get it. One dimension happens when most of the assists come from the support players, and most of the goals come from the attackers. Well, I don't know what happened with others' tactic, but in FM13 my tactic restricted me of having it happened. I can't rely on one/two goalscorers, since most of my goals came from Varane (from corner situation), Ronaldo, even Ozil, and not came from Higuain himself. Obviously it happened not because I set them to be, because I didn't know about "one dimension tactic" until now (even sometimes I was being naive, and cursing Higuain for getting not enough goals). But now I get it, thanks to you all, that with lone striker system such as I have, it's quite impossible to expect my striker to bag most goals for my team.

Anyway, can someone point me direction to a thread that discuss anything related to this "one dimensional tactic" (preferably FM 13)? I think, to understand what makes a tactic works, I have to learn about what makes a tactic doesn't work first.

[BiggusD]

I get it. One dimension happens when most of the assists come from the support players, and most of the goals come from the attackers. Well, I don't know what happened with others' tactic, but in FM13 my tactic restricted me of having it happened. I can't rely on one/two goalscorers, since most of my goals came from Varane (from corner situation), Ronaldo, even Ozil, and not came from Higuain himself. Obviously it happened not because I set them to be, because I didn't know about "one dimension tactic" until now (even sometimes I was being naive, and cursing Higuain for getting not enough goals). But now I get it, thanks to you all, that with lone striker system such as I have, it's quite impossible to expect my striker to bag most goals for my team.

Anyway, can someone point me direction to a thread that discuss anything related to this "one dimensional tactic" (preferably FM 13)? I think, to understand what makes a tactic works, I have to learn about what makes a tactic doesn't work first.

Well, interconnecting threads with each other is probably frowned upon in message boards, but I do it anyway. Here's a thread I posted advice in, including a very basic tactic that works well for me (#9). http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/356001-One-too-many-I-am-afraid...

What PPMs do Higuain have and what is is Strength attribute?

[KevMaaan]

I get it. One dimension happens when most of the assists come from the support players, and most of the goals come from the attackers. Well, I don't know what happened with others' tactic, but in FM13 my tactic restricted me of having it happened. I can't rely on one/two goalscorers, since most of my goals came from Varane (from corner situation), Ronaldo, even Ozil, and not came from Higuain himself. Obviously it happened not because I set them to be, because I didn't know about "one dimension tactic" until now (even sometimes I was being naive, and cursing Higuain for getting not enough goals). But now I get it, thanks to you all, that with lone striker system such as I have, it's quite impossible to expect my striker to bag most goals for my team.

Anyway, can someone point me direction to a thread that discuss anything related to this "one dimensional tactic" (preferably FM 13)? I think, to understand what makes a tactic works, I have to learn about what makes a tactic doesn't work first.

I tend not to worry about a lone striker having a lack of goals, as more often than not he is absolutely key in creating space for your wide men to get into the box. I had falcao on his own for spurs and the amount of assists he got was unreal.

[Blancos]

Well, interconnecting threads with each other is probably frowned upon in message boards, but I do it anyway. Here's a thread I posted advice in, including a very basic tactic that works well for me (#9). http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/356001-One-too-many-I-am-afraid...

What PPMs do Higuain have and what is is Strength attribute?

In April 2014 my Higuain's PPM are:

His attribute:

His Stats:

I tend not to worry about a lone striker having a lack of goals, as more often than not he is absolutely key in creating space for your wide men to get into the box. I had falcao on his own for spurs and the amount of assists he got was unreal.

Now I'm not worry anymore, since I understand that I asked him a lot already (being lone striker in the box with 3 or 4 defensive oppositions). As long as my team gets goals, it doesn't matter who the scorer is .

[Wizard boy]

How important are opposition instructions before the game? do let your ass man take care of it, leave it clear or do it yourself?

[Blancos]

How important are opposition instructions before the game? do let your ass man take care of it, leave it clear or do it yourself?

At the first few games, I leave it to my Assistant Manager. But I realize, that it will overide and break my style of play. I.e: my Real Madrid is lack of tackler so I set their tackling at Normal, and AMC+AMR/L+Striker at easy... But my assistant tell them to tackling hard, and yellow/red card is becoming something common in my early games.

Now, lesson's learned. I leave the OI at blank, and rely more on my tactical system and sometimes shoutouts.

[Wizard boy]

At the first few games, I leave it to my Assistant Manager. But I realize, that it will overide and break my style of play. I.e: my Real Madrid is lack of tackler so I set their tackling at Normal, and AMC+AMR/L+Striker at easy... But my assistant tell them to tackling hard, and yellow/red card is becoming something common in my early games.

Now, lesson's learned. I leave the OI at blank, and rely more on my tactical system and sometimes shoutouts.

So if you put zonal marking in the team instructions does that override opposition ones? i use to leave it to ass man but started to leave it blank and on zonal in team instructions.

[Blancos]

So if you put zonal marking in the team instructions does that override opposition ones? i use to leave it to ass man but started to leave it blank and on zonal in team instructions.

Afaik, it's not the team instructions that overrides the OI. The OI is the one that overrides the team instructions.

[Wizard boy]

Afaik, it's not the team instructions that overrides the OI. The OI is the one that overrides the team instructions.

Oh right good to know. thanks..

[James9]

Basically a tactic that's almost 100% reliant on one player scoring hatfuls of goals, with nobody else contributing very much.

Sorry to jump in but can can anyone give me some advice on where I am going wrong with my Arsenal side. My current set up is as follows.

Balance

Control

Passing - Shorter

Closing Down - Press More

Tackling Default

Creative Freedom - More Expressive

Roaming - Default

Crossing - Default

My player roles are as follows

GK - Defend

Central Defender - Defend

Central Defender- Defend

Defender Right - Support

Defender Left - Attack

Deep Lying Playmaker Defend - Arteta

Advance Playmaker - Attack - Cazorla

Box to Box Midfielder - Diaby/Wilshere/Ramsey. I was thinking of getting either Fellani or Lars Bender for this role

AMR - Winger Support Walcott

AML - Winger Attack - Poldolski

Deep Lying Forward Support - Giroud

The problem I am having is that I cannot get the front three to function properly. When Giroud comes deep know we struggle to get men in the box. I have tried both the AMR and AML as inside forwards but they still do not get in the box. I have tried changing the box to box midfielder to central midfielder attack and does not help.

I am trying to get the triangle passing in midfield but it seems that they are not connecting well with each other.

My defenders do not play as a unit and sometimes they are getting pulled out of position by the other teams.

The only player settings i have changed is to put long shots on rarely. I have also unticked the playmaker setting on team instructions.

My tactic is fluid. I have followed Cleons pre season training advice. I played 11 friendly games during pre season to getting the tactic fluid levels up. My players are all match fit.

I just cannot seem to understand the ME. The only shouts i use are work ball into box, pass into space and run at defence. I have read most of the blogs and I still cannot understand the ME.

Please can any of you guys have a look at my team set up and tactic and help me.

[Bromley Raven]

James9, I'm no tactics expert, but in my opinion there are the following issues.

The midfield lacks a tackler. I wouldn't have two playmakers in there. Maybe a ball winning midfielder, or a central midfielder (D) in place of the advanced playmaker.

I haven't had much success with two wingers. I'd suggest having one or both as inside forward (preferably with the opposite foot. Right footers on the left, and left footers on the right). If you do have two wingers you'll want a target man style forward. As it is I can't see where the goals are supposed to come from.

The left side of the team is very attacking. The full back will get forwards and the winger won't be tracking back to cover. You could easily get hit on the break.

[James9]

James9, I'm no tactics expert, but in my opinion there are the following issues.

The midfield lacks a tackler. I wouldn't have two playmakers in there. Maybe a ball winning midfielder, or a central midfielder (D) in place of the advanced playmaker.

I haven't had much success with two wingers. I'd suggest having one or both as inside forward (preferably with the opposite foot. Right footers on the left, and left footers on the right). If you do have two wingers you'll want a target man style forward. As it is I can't see where the goals are supposed to come from.

The left side of the team is very attacking. The full back will get forwards and the winger won't be tracking back to cover. You could easily get hit on the break.

Thanks. How would you rcommend sorting out my left side. I want the full back to get forward to move between the lines. How would you suggest i set up the wingef