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England - The Road to 2012 (now featuring Wayne Rooney) but not his touch

jmr

By jmr,
in Euro 2012 Forum

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jmr

jmr

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If we keep going for Johnny Foreigner then the next level of Big Sam's will never come through or get a chance, no one will ever get a chance.

Capello as England manager isn't going to stop good managers coming through.

Maybe we should just look around for the best English Manager and appoint them, if that is 'arry, Big Sam or bloody Les Reed it doesn't matter but let them come in and fail and then maybe the FA will get the message that something needs to be done about coaching and improving coaches and getting more into the game. We can always brush things under the carpet and there's no problem when we have the best Manager in the world in charge.
If they haven't got the message so far that our coaching is awful then they never will, how many rubbish managers do we throw at the job until we give up?
I think with the Euros after this one it's gonna be impossible to not qualify for the bigger countries so perfect for any old English Manager to qualify us and take us to the tournament, I'll have a go, ffs :D

We're not pulling up daisies atm anyway and I'd expect them qualify, we have a decent set of players

Whilst this is true I'd also like us to win something in my lifetime, just getting to the Euros/WC with an average manager isn't good enough if you get knocked out in the group stages.
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jmr

jmr

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You know my way of thinking do you? Just because Capello is manager, that is not stopping us from developing homegrown talent, is Stuart Pearce not learning anything from Fabio? Do we stop with coaching courses because we have a foreign manager? You make it sound like I don't want homegrown players/managers to come through which is just ****ing stupid and jumping to conclusions, I want them to come through when they are ready, we rushed McClaren into the job and look what happened. If we have no English managers ready for when Capello retires then what's the point in recruiting them "just because"?

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CaptainPlanet

CaptainPlanet

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You know my way of thinking do you? Just because Capello is manager, that is not stopping us from developing homegrown talent, is Stuart Pearce not learning anything from Fabio? Do we stop with coaching courses because we have a foreign manager? You make it sound like I don't want homegrown players/managers to come through which is just ****ing stupid and jumping to conclusions, I want them to come through when they are ready, we rushed McClaren into the job and look what happened. If we have no English managers ready for when Capello retires then what's the point in recruiting them "just because"?

Unecessary rage and swearing isn't really needed when discussing points of view is it?

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josh_b

josh_b

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i think fifa should make it a rule that the manager has to be the same nationality as the team. seems stupid that they don't have to be

Well, that's not possible. If a FA wants a guy in charge, they'll just give him a different named role and let him run the team. Say, Director of Football, and then just have him name one of his underlings as 'manager'

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Candre168

Candre168

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Ideally I'd prefer an English manager. We are a big footballing country we should be able to produce our own quality manager.

But we can't, so what are we going to do? Hire someone inadequate just to make it us feel like he's going to be good enough? If you want the best for the National Team, then we need to get the best manager we can get. Capello is considered one of the best around the world, if HE fails here, what makes you think it's going to be any different with anyone else?

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Razzler

Razzler

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Capello, of course not, he's currently in the job until the Euros. I am saying the next Capello and the next one and the next one ... we went totally against the grain that time to appoint an overseas Manager as a 'major' footballing nation, not sure we should do this for the rest of eternity, at some point we should appoint the best English Manager we have and then deal with the fall out from there

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Razzler

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How do you know we can't produce a quality English Manager? There's plenty of good Managers but the problem is they will never get to Manage at the very top of the league. There's so much at stake that any big side loses a Manager they go immediately to another Manager with Champions League experience. It's almost impossible for Allardyce, Steve Bruce or someone like Gary Johnson to get a chance Managing a top side. Could do very well indeed. We're stuck with launching the English Managers we have into international football.

It's not like overseas Managers have really transformed our performances either, I'd love to win something but we haven't and we actually had a good squad under Sven, what's Sven up to now, not much. Is he really much better than 'arry or Hodgson?

I can see how they want to get back to an English Manager instead of throwing money at a selection of the best Managers but they shouldn't have come out and said it during Capello's tenure as if Capello did wonders at the Euros I'd be happy to keep him on.

At some point just think we need to change this, can't bring in Mourinho and then del Bosque and so on and so on for the next 20 years. It's not rocket science, Ron Greenwood did it, ffs! :p

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skybluedave

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But we can't, so what are we going to do? Hire someone inadequate just to make it us feel like he's going to be good enough? If you want the best for the National Team, then we need to get the best manager we can get. Capello is considered one of the best around the world, if HE fails here, what makes you think it's going to be any different with anyone else?

Never said we should have an English manager. Just that a country like ours, big on football (motherland and all) with buckets of cash floating around our game, we should be producing decent managers like Italy and Germany do.

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Razzler

Razzler

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Carrick isn't even playing for United at the moment, coming back from injury? + the small matter of him rarely being impressive. I don't have a problem with Bent, why not, good club player, not got too many look ins, I think our game is midweek after others in our group have played weekend so Capello should have a bit of time with the squad. No problem with Crouch either, not rocket science, they both know how to play.

I doubt Walcott will be back? Johnson right and an out of form Aaron Lennon on the left? I think we all know what will happen but we don't want to admit it to ourselves ... it's SWP time, baby!!!!!

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skybluedave

skybluedave

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Carrick might play tonight. Tough selection for Capello really. Our strikers are pretty average bar Rooney, so playing 2 when one isn't Rooney doesn't inspire. So you'd think 4231 would be the idea as we played it well against Hungary. But then who do you play alongside Barry if Gerrard moves forward. Maybe Wilshere will get a start.

Forgot about SWP. Maybe Ashley Young over SWP, heck Downing over SWP please.

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Razzler

Razzler

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Ah, yes, forgot Ashley Young although he's been playing a bit further forward for Villa rather than on the left although he can go there. I can't stand Downing, I think it'll be same central midfield pairing, too weak if it's Barry/Carrick, leave that as it is cause it worked well and it's 2 strikers, we're not playing Spain, Montenegro are a good side but Bent has scored a lot of goals in the Premier League and Crouch isn't bad and always a danger, wouldn't be the end of the world if they started for us, I am not a massive Defoe fan and no one would mind Crouch/Defoe starting, Bent's about the same-ish for me

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skybluedave

skybluedave

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I still love international football. Had a little lull after the WC. But am up for it all again. England games are most of the games I look forward to the most.

International football is more pure, not driven as much by money and success cannot be bought. Why I enjoy it more, even though the standard isn't as high.

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Razzler

Razzler

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Not this week, It's 2 weeks from yesterday.

What's this, international football ... well, when did this international football start, I am not happy about this! International football exists it isn't going anywhere and everyone is doing it, that thing we all get excited about every 2 years, Euros and World Cups, well this is kind of needed for that. No idea why people act all surprised when there's international football as if it's something that started quite recently

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Razzler

Razzler

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I still love international football. Had a little lull after the WC. But am up for it all again. England games are most of the games I look forward to the most.

International football is more pure, not driven as much by money and success cannot be bought. Why I enjoy it more, even though the standard isn't as high.

The thing is, people go on about qualifiying as if it's dull. With us being so poor in the World Cup the latest line seems to be 'qualifying is easy but tournaments are hard' so therefore we can't read too much into qualifying, i.e. anything good but certainly bad stuff.

Tournament football is unique, time away, preparation, it's totally different to the rest of the international management experience imo.

Also, since when is the group stages of the Champions League particularly exciting either? Nothing particularly exciting happens until the latter stages there as well

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skybluedave

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That's a great shout tbh. Completly forgot Owen. Owen has featured quite a bit recently for United. Scored a couple of goals recently. I wouldn't mind calling him up. I kinda argreed with dropping him when Capello first took over, injuries, lack of form etc. But with the injuries and lack of options up front, why not.

Not quite sure what Capello's problem with him is. I know he called him up at first. He was on the bench for Capello's first game. I know a lot of times Capello has been justified in not calling him up, as he always seems to break down again after recovering some fitness. But there were times like the home qualifier against Ukraine (I think) when we start just Crouch, were missing quite a few strikers. Then it kinda struck it might be personal.

Can't believe he was only 22 and 24 at WC02 and Euro04. He was awesome then. One of the best strikers in the tournements. At his peak. Seemed unimaginable at the time his career would nosedive like it did really.

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josh_b

josh_b

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Both Wilshere and Gibbs are in the U21s according to some arsenal fansites on twitter. Bit baffling really, Wilshere has been in superb form the last few games and now would be a pretty good time to give him a go with Lampard out. Gibbs was also ok against Partizan (despite the tired tackle towards the end that gave away a penalty) so not sure why he's been dropped.

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Icelander83

Icelander83

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The U21s have playoff games coming up, right? Understandable that they would get a chance to get the team into the finals, really. Not really a big loss to the main team if everything goes to plan (that said, no idea who you are facing).

At least Capello doesn't have the same situation as our national coach, the FA gave the U21s coach first pick for his squad (play off games against Scotland, first major tournament finals at stake) and he's picked 7 from the last full international squad :D Of course, the A squad is only playing the shower of ***** that is Portugal so... :D

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Mr Adam

Mr Adam

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tbh Rob's a Newcastle fan so isn't going to necessarily be in favour of Bent. He's the only person who seems dead set against it.

The rest are saying Bent will "make do" which, despite being a Sunderland fan, is a statement I agree with. He's not the class of an international side who want to do well in tournaments but probably is good enough if he gets 90 mins against smaller teams.

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Rob1981

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tbh Rob's a Newcastle fan so isn't going to necessarily be in favour of Bent. He's the only person who seems dead set against it.

Who, me? I'm not a Newcastle fan :D

No problem with Bent starting at all, not his biggest fan but with Rooney and Defoe out and Heskey retired we're not exactly blessed with options. And can't argue with his scoring record. As you say, I would be nervous about going into a tournament with him in the starting XI, but he should certainly be able to do a job in a home game against Montenegro.

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