Patch 10.3 - Official feedback thread - Keep it here please

[Vic Taylor]

ME being a fail (heart of the game) and countless bugs don't count? I'm frustrated because I love playing FM and it disappoints me every year. The game is a moneymaker of huge proportions now (how many can release the same game year after year and take full price for it?)... I think the developers should work on a release that actually works out of the box and stop pushing "new" games every year that are not ready.

So all the new features we get every year were actually in the previous years' games?

Wow, how did I miss them?!

[darrylv2]

on this patch all of my players always get injured for ages.. once my 30man man city team had 14 players injurred.

[amit_leipold]

ME being a fail (heart of the game) and countless bugs don't count? I'm frustrated because I love playing FM and it disappoints me every year. The game is a moneymaker of huge proportions now (how many can release the same game year after year and take full price for it?)... I think the developers should work on a release that actually works out of the box and stop pushing "new" games every year that are not ready.

i must say that i was negative about this patch as well when i first try it, and i can fairly say that i was worng.

i use tuch line more and use differnt training system from the 10.2 and finally i see the idia beind it, 2 days ago i did not score one goal even with chelsea and now i control the game and score much more.

i recommend to keep try and do tests, leave the old tactics that you use and make new one, in the end you will see its works you enjoy the game same way as you did and even more, tuch line realy works cool and make alot of differnt in the game, and the moment you understand how to deal with it you enjoy alot more then a static tactic.

yes its a bit more hard to win then 10.2, at list on the start, but i can also see that for exmple MU and Arsenal lose way more and this is simple great!

young players develop much nicer and media can make you win hard games if you use it right.

so again my only tip is keep try and you found you have a gem in your hand and you will pray SI will keep it this way

[MeesterCat]

ME being a fail (heart of the game) and countless bugs don't count? I'm frustrated because I love playing FM and it disappoints me every year. The game is a moneymaker of huge proportions now (how many can release the same game year after year and take full price for it?)... I think the developers should work on a release that actually works out of the box and stop pushing "new" games every year that are not ready.

You're still not actually giving any examples, just vague 'bugs' and 'fail ME' grumbles.

I'd not played FM for several versions, and have returned to the game in this version. I've played version 10.1, 10.2 and 10.3 and I really, really fail to see where these complaints come from. Yes there have been things that have needed tweaking, but at no point has the ME or game been unplayable, you just need to be willing to adjust your tactics, be flexible in your approach to matches and not expect to have an uber tactic that will defeat the game 100% of the time.

[Chochip]

I'll give you one.

The defenders don't understand the concept of 'tight marking'. And so many cheap goals result from those silly mistakes.

In 10.3 it seems like a lot of the goals come from silly situations, and it really makes it harder for me to actually believe it as a representation of reality.

[redmark]

A few things I have noticed and they are all bad in 10.3:

Pressing Continue - it takes about 4 or 5 seconds to react

When playing games, my player ratings are awfull. I have kept same tactics etc and my player ratings are crap

When playing games, my players fitness decreases far too quickly - again same tactics before 10.3 with no issues

My forwards have suddenly turned crap and do not score a quarter of the goals previously. Torres has scored once in about 8 games.

I have Torres with 15 goals in 12 games. It's not the patch.

[redmark]

on this patch all of my players always get injured for ages.. once my 30man man city team had 14 players injurred.

My 23-man Liverpool squad, after the return of Agger and Aquilani, for a couple of weeks had no injuries at all. Then I picked up a couple of knocks (plus a leg break in the U-18s), and Aquilani got injured playing for Italy before even a single game for Liverpool. Sounds pretty realistic to me...

[dunstablesucks]

Some matches I get exactly the same graphics bug as Ustari up the page. Some matches it's fine, some matches the crowd and everything else vanishes.

[saigon]

Most of the things included in that patch are OK, but the injuries are terrible... Every game I have a player or two injured, which I didn't have with 10.2.

[WGC]

i have downloaded update in Steam but it won't come up in my editor....help please!

[paganizer]

You're still not actually giving any examples, just vague 'bugs' and 'fail ME' grumbles.

I'd not played FM for several versions, and have returned to the game in this version. I've played version 10.1, 10.2 and 10.3 and I really, really fail to see where these complaints come from. Yes there have been things that have needed tweaking, but at no point has the ME or game been unplayable, you just need to be willing to adjust your tactics, be flexible in your approach to matches and not expect to have an uber tactic that will defeat the game 100% of the time.

As you said.. you haven't played FM for several versions. I have played most versions. Generally it has been the same experience. The game comes out and the ME is in ruins, because they made some changes to the game and added some new stuff (for some reason that throws takes the ME back to scratch eliminating an otherwise great engine from the last year of patches)

So they start sending out patches to fix the ME and it takes 2-3 patches over several months to make the game playable (realistic - yes that's important to me). It gets old. Guess what happens next time? The ME in the 2011 edition will be back to basics once again and it will be 4-6 months of patching before you can enjoy watching the games.

That is what frustrates me the most. And i'm just saying enough is enough. No more buying until the product is in a stable state with a good ME (the 2010 crashed repeatedly for me)

[MeesterCat]

As you said.. you haven't played FM for several versions. I have played most versions. Generally it has been the same experience. The game comes out and the ME is in ruins, because they made some changes to the game and added some new stuff (for some reason that throws takes the ME back to scratch eliminating an otherwise great engine from the last year of patches)

So they start sending out patches to fix the ME and it takes 2-3 patches over several months to make the game playable (realistic - yes that's important to me). It gets old. Guess what happens next time? The ME in the 2011 edition will be back to basics once again and it will be 4-6 months of patching before you can enjoy watching the games.

That is what frustrates me the most. And i'm just saying enough is enough. No more buying until the product is in a stable state with a good ME (the 2010 crashed repeatedly for me)

Perhaps you should just play 9.3 then and tweak the editor to reflect transfer changes? I know I did that with FM2006 for a couple of years.

[Ustari]

Do you have show stadium on?

I checked the preferences of my game & I have all the graphics turned on. This also happened on my Spurs game with some stadiums.

[Besiktas_Turkey]

injuries incredibly much.

[tibasta]

for me 4-4-2 rock!

i use the same tactics of 10.1. i made a little change.

too many corner for me but 10.3 is a good work. for me 10.2 is the worst patch ever (at same 9.2 and last years..)

I agree with Amit leipold. 442 can no longer be used. And I, too, am forced to skip playing until a new patch or 2011 comes out. I have to say that I really enjoyed the game until 10.3 and am glad I bought the game. But 10.3 killed it for me. It feels like my game got a nasty virus. And because I bought the game through Steam I can't reload the game and play using 10.2. I'm forced to play 10.3. It's like bringing your car in for a tune up and they blow up the engine. It's like bringing your dog in for a check up and they put it to sleep. It's like....oh, you get the picture.

[tibasta]

too for me, Sounds pretty realistic

My 23-man Liverpool squad, after the return of Agger and Aquilani, for a couple of weeks had no injuries at all. Then I picked up a couple of knocks (plus a leg break in the U-18s), and Aquilani got injured playing for Italy before even a single game for Liverpool. Sounds pretty realistic to me...

[tibasta]

It's not the patch for me, trezeguet (starting a new game) have 10 gol in 14 match... amauri (play in same position of trezeguet for me) 3 in 3...

i think u have a tactics problem....

I have Torres with 15 goals in 12 games. It's not the patch.

[JiggyDempsey]

My 20 y/o DC won young player of the season but didnt make the Team of the Year, I find that a little strange

[JCarroll]

Has there been any official word from SI on the injury issue? I have a first team squad of around 23 and now 10 are out injured and 6 for more than 4 weeks?

It seems like a problem for most? It would be nice to get some official word on it?

Jon

[Vermundr]

I lose my erection while playing 10.3 :S

[froog]

is it just me or is there an insane amount of long shots in this game? i cant find any threads on the matter but i have set my player instructions to shoot from distance rarely to every plyer, but still im having 10+ long shots a game. if SI cant get this game right by the 3rd patch then whats the point in any patches?

[henrycs2004]

Has there been any official word from SI on the injury issue? I have a first team squad of around 23 and now 10 are out injured and 6 for more than 4 weeks?

It seems like a problem for most? It would be nice to get some official word on it?

Jon

If many of the injuries are a result from the training, maybe try adjusting the training intensity a little. i may be wrong...but a too high intensity training does not necessary means a good or effective training...similarly, a lower intensity training does not necessary means an ineffective training...

[henrycs2004]

My 20 y/o DC won young player of the season but didnt make the Team of the Year, I find that a little strange

why would this be strange...a young player winning the young player of the season award only means he is the best performing and most potential youth in the league...he might be a contender for the team of the year but that does not necessary means he is up in the league of the best performers of the league.

[JR866Gunner]

The flaming lag when you press continue is driving me mad, I have to sit there not knowing whether it will move on or not and it is seriously irritating.

Ive noticed this! Thought it was just me, also in match too? Every so often it thinks about it then suddenly moves!

[Barkermush]

I've had a couple of crash dumps on 10.3, both were on the match screen at the start of the second half. (both times it happened, were around the 50th-58th minute of the match)

The screen freezes and the sound just goes off and i can't click anything, then after a minute or so it comes up with a crash dump error.

I noticed that both times it crashed, i had the 'use skin cache' unticked and 'always reload skin on confirm' ticked.

Don't know if that's the reason, but both times it crashed that was my set up in prefrences.

When FM freezed my computer went really slow and i noticed in the task manager, the FM process was unbelievably high.

Never had a crash dump on 10.2, hopefully i won't get anymore on 10.3.

Touch wood ...

[henrycs2004]

I encounter few times when the match would freeze suddenly at 3d view (sound still on), and i have to use ctrl+alt+delete to bring up the task manager and restart my laptop...this had happened to 10.2 patch too...can SI help me on this? Thanks...

[muncherdave]

We've had a few crash dumps in the OTF FMO. We've had to resort to saving every single day during the transfer windows as well as before and after every match

We also had to bin our first save which was 3 seasons in, which we'd also started during patch 10.1 to present, because the game just kept crashing when we all tried to join. We tried everything to try to find a way round it, holidaying, joining one at a time, but unfortunately to no avail.

[MCL8]

The shortened goal flash is really disappointing, I fail to understand why on earth SI decided to tweak it, one the game's most famous trademarks if not the top one. If it ain't broken - don't fix it.

[ac13]

I've had a couple of crash dumps on 10.3, both were on the match screen at the start of the second half. (both times it happened, were around the 50th-58th minute of the match)

The screen freezes and the sound just goes off and i can't click anything, then after a minute or so it comes up with a crash dump error.

I noticed that both times it crashed, i had the 'use skin cache' unticked and 'always reload skin on confirm' ticked.

Don't know if that's the reason, but both times it crashed that was my set up in prefrences.

When FM freezed my computer went really slow and i noticed in the task manager, the FM process was unbelievably high.

Never had a crash dump on 10.2, hopefully i won't get anymore on 10.3.

Touch wood ...

I've had 5 in 2 seasons. Very annoying when you a goal up away. easy enough to replicate the result but if a key rival was losing at that point and wins the replayed game it sucks.

[ac13]

I'll give you one.

The defenders don't understand the concept of 'tight marking'. And so many cheap goals result from those silly mistakes.

In 10.3 it seems like a lot of the goals come from silly situations, and it really makes it harder for me to actually believe it as a representation of reality.

agree with you here. I had a long rant about how many goals were scored from through balls and how few were scored in the way they are in real life (crosses, shots from edge of area where attacker found some space but there are defenders goal side). Pace for strikers is far too important in comparison to finishing/composure. Pace is far too important for defenders in comparison to jumping/marking. I gave Chelsea's top 5 defenders jumping 0f 5 and 5 attackers finishing and composure of 5 and they were still CL contenders and conceeded only 10 goals in 20 league games.

I don't recall previous (final patch) versions of FM forcing you to play one style (through the middle, short passing, many through balls).

Has anyone had any success playing a long ball or direct style?

One good thing about the ME is the midfield battle. Seems like having a ball winner has become vital. Having someone who can win a lot of headers in midfield seems to help too.

[Masterstroke]

What have they done to the match confidence?

Every match i lose no matter how big the team the fans will be dissapointed, and mon how other sub-par players should have started instead

every match i win the fans will be pleased with no comment

once again new feature fail

[Konfuchie]

I've had a couple of crash dumps on 10.3, both were on the match screen at the start of the second half. (both times it happened, were around the 50th-58th minute of the match)

The screen freezes and the sound just goes off and i can't click anything, then after a minute or so it comes up with a crash dump error.

I noticed that both times it crashed, i had the 'use skin cache' unticked and 'always reload skin on confirm' ticked.

Don't know if that's the reason, but both times it crashed that was my set up in prefrences.

When FM freezed my computer went really slow and i noticed in the task manager, the FM process was unbelievably high.

Never had a crash dump on 10.2, hopefully i won't get anymore on 10.3.

Touch wood ...

Having same problem with even more often crashes. Any of the moderators that could respond with competence?

[manchester]

ever since i have installed this patch my sound does not work correctly either using steam on using disk

[Konfuchie]

Motivation and performance of the player is affected by the fact that there is much/enough/no competition for the position in team. But it seems that it is totally unaffected by players that can also play in the position even tho other position is their natural. This should be made right.

For example I have slightly under-par left full-back but he had excellent ratings last season. But this season my best right back is equally adapt to play on the left. And I have 2 other fairly food right backs. Even so the under pair left back is underachieving and does not feel the competition for first team position...

[dovEs]

how do I actually make the patch work? I've downloaded it and its sitting on my desktop in some kind of malleble, useless form. what do I do now to make it work?

Cheers

[Vic Taylor]

how do I actually make the patch work? I've downloaded it and its sitting on my desktop in some kind of malleble, useless form. what do I do now to make it work?

Cheers

You need to do this, mate.

1. Right click on it, and click 'Properties'.

2. Change the end of the file name to ".exe" (without the quotes).

3. Double click on the patch icon (which should have changed when you changed the file name) and it should install.

[grade]

Double click on the file and it will appear a window on you screen. Then press start and that should do it.

[Vic Taylor]

Double click on the file and it will appear a window on you screen. Then press start and that should do it.

He'll have to change the file name first.

[dovEs]

That's worked =) Thanks guys. damn my computer illiteracy haha

[golfpunk]

I'm having no success whatsoever with this new patch. It's either injuries, crash dumps or my team not scoring in 5 successive games. Really not a happy bunny with this patch.

I've never had any problems with any of the previous patches on previous versions of the game but this patch really isn't working for me.

[JiggyDempsey]

why would this be strange...a young player winning the young player of the season award only means he is the best performing and most potential youth in the league...he might be a contender for the team of the year but that does not necessary means he is up in the league of the best performers of the league.

It felt strange I suppose because I felt he was one of the best in the league regardless and one of his teammates was selected and I dont think he was worse than those selected.

I understand your thinking and i do agree but i was disappointed in this case i suppose, i just felt he deserved it since he won me so many trophies!

[Raware]

I'll throw my two cents in here about the new patch...don't want to feel left out! .

For me, i've noticed an improvement with some things in the new patch but the one major flaw I have found is with injuries. There are just too many! Of course i'm not saying that you should never have any injuries, that would be stupid, but 10.2 seemed to have the right balance. With 10.3, my squad of 24 saw 16 players out injured at one time...16! . On average I've had 12 players out at the same time in the past 2 years. For me this is totally unplayable and after the rubbish that was 9.3 (which had similar injury problems and forced me to go back to FM08) i'm disappointed to see the same mistakes again with FM10. Unfortunately this has signalled the end of the road with FM for me and after 17-18 years of it, it's a sad day. However, i'll once again be going back to FM08 which for me gave me the most satisfaction and fun (after all, that's what I want out of a game)...I just won't be buying any more releases.

I'm glad some of you can continue...but for me, it's a game breaker.

[Jonno Wilson]

WHY WHY WHY Increase the injuries?!?!?!?!!?!?!

It happened last year, and it has happened this year, the patch looks good, match engine has improved.......... but for the simple reason that I get at least 1 injury or knock per game, sometimes 3 injuries per game and I am left with a demolished squad, I cannot play FM with this version.

It is unplayable with injuries like this - why change it?

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Based upon my own personal straw poll of this feedback combined with my dissatisfaction of FM10.2, am now playing CM0102 and loving it. To be fair when FM10 goes good its probably the best CM/FM ever but have had to many crashes, too many "unrealistic" occurences (some repeated!, so dont tell me "strange things happen in football sometimes" - that is just an excuse), a 3d engine that doesnt work properly and still tactical tweaking is a little too complex & time consuming (though hats off to the Shouts & wizard, they have helped a great deal).

I just feel the whole approach to how we (the players) want to play the game, should be readressed for FM11. There should be a "light" option, maybe more ass man help. At present he tells you lots of stuff about how your team is doing in-match (eg "player x getting skinned") but to interpret this means trawling this site, and the answers to the question are often contradictory and just opinions from players with actual game knowledge ranging from "inexperienced" upwards - so unreliable!).

Maybe there should be a secondary ass man option, with this selected / his role employed, the "in match / prematch" assistance shown will be a useful translation so "keeps getting skinned" would read "needs to get tighter/drop off" (or whatever the answer to that particular conundrum actually is!). Im not asking for a "win game button" but should like to be reasonably successful without a hurculean effort.

NB. I term "success" here as "being able to turn a match around" not "winning everything in sight" - as even with my rather moderate FM10 ability I can easily overachieve across a season - the problem I have is turning a round a poor performance or one of those annoying 3-4 game blips in form

To sum up cm0102 is known as the "pick a super tactic & buy the cheat players" game (though I never found it THAT easy!).

FM10 seems to be a "develop the players you have / the next crop of regens into a team of Pele's, meanwhile make your inherited donkeys unbeatable by micro-tactic managing"

I have to say the 10.3 feedback generally does not encourage playing of FM10 - and whilst I applaud SI for allowing honest feedback, it leads to questions like "has FM lost its way a bit"

[Konfuchie]

FM10 seems to be a "develop the players you have / the next crop of regens into a team of Pele's, meanwhile make your inherited donkeys unbeatable by micro-tactic managing"

This is a good summary but in fact I like that kind of game.

I had the most spell of success in fm2008 where I just had to buy decent players and coaches; play 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 narrow with NO PLAYER INSTRUCTIONS and all sliders at middle.

After 2-4 seasons you will win ALL with Aston Villa, Fiorentina, Villarreal or similar teams.

On the other hand FM2010 is a bit too complicated.

Player instructions need to deffer even when you just substitute in min 75. They need to get the best out of your player, make him work for the team, fit your tactics, gel...

Effects of team gelling, foreign language, different football style, complacency, personality are overrated and exaggerated. In real life we know from papers that it affects big clubs, and that they are blamed for underachieving but this does not mean you need to be psychologist to manage a football club, and that a player 2 or more years already in the club disrupts the dressing room atmosphere just to harm his manager personally. I mean people payed over 1.5 mil a year must be more professional than that in real life.

Some things are missing - like better board interaction. Benitez must be able to say come one I just need 65 grand to cover sign on feel for this exciting prospect. He will serve you well even when I'm gone.

Effects of training are unclear, as are the effects of tutoring, loaning and so on...

There is just not enough guidance and tips in game, you need forums to learn to play it...

Press interaction is a big nonsense. It is important in real life but its effects on players and handling it is just poorly simulated in FM2010.

Player interaction is poor and totally scarce. It is lacking choices. All you can do is fine, promote, give new contract, give a press release and recommend preferred move/signing. COME ON - managers in real football spend over 4 hours 6 days a week 11 month a year with their players. They talk, they fight, they lough, the hug and they swear at each other...

As far as 1.3 goes it is an improvement and manager 2010 was not a finished game without it. One shameful exception is the corner flaw. But 1.3 is worth trying for any disillusioned players.

In future it would be nice to see FM grow into easier to learn game, that has tendency to simulate reality. It becoming an arcade game would be a disaster.

[jlawlor91]

Too many injuries by far.

[Manor123]

Having a problem downloading new patch as it is saving as a torrent file how do i change this?

[aditya]

Having a problem downloading new patch as it is saving as a torrent file how do i change this?

just download bit torrent, install then click the torrent file. is good for future use

[Jono]

Hmmm 50 odd goals from corners, play it to a lurking player then he shoots, bug methinks.

[Goose54]

It took me a few days to decide on updating to patch 10.3, because I was happy with 10.1 (with the exception of some annoying issues in the tackling department); so I was reluctant to change, unless for a much improved package. Having seen a lot of posts around the forum reporting issues and more bugs, I was apprehensive about patching.

Anyway, I decided to give it a try, and having played ten games now on the new patch, I wanted to offer some feedback.

This patch is utterly atrocious. So unbelievably poor, I cannot even begin to comprehend it.

No, not really.

I just didn't want to feel left out.

Actually, 10.3 is a very good patch.

Some general observations on my experiences:

- Defending/Tackling:

A huge improvement. How joyous to see in my first game, my centre back credited with 5 important tackles. All round, I find the defensive positioning much better, and the way my defenders now actually read the game, borders upon reality.

My Ball Winning Defensive Midfielder's performances on the new patch have also greatly improved.

Very pleased indeed with the improvements made on defending/tackling. The key area for me in whether I'd stick with 10.1 or not.

- Wingers/wide play/crossing:

A crucial area for me, as quality wing play is essential to my game. I'd read a few accounts around the forum of some issues in this area, so I was concerned that would affect my game. I did find initially that the reports of wingers only crossing to the other winger and bypassing the forwards are accurate, and that was not good.

But I read of a workaround (sorry that I don't have time to find the link, but credit to the poster who discovered it), and I am very happy to confirm that the work around works. The issue is with the "Winger" role. Simply change the role of your winger to "Wide Midfielder". You can still change his actual settings back to "hug line", "run with ball often" etc, and other winger related functions, you just need him to be under the "Wide Midfielder" role instead of "Winger", and crossing works perfectly well, and follows your crossing instructions as normal.

- Strikers/Forwards:

In short, my forward play on 10.3 is the most fluent and realistic it has been for a long time. Real quality movement and reading of the game, some great partnerships and understandings developing between my players, and the finishing is excellent.

- Passing:

Vast improvements in the realism, not only of the passing itself, but also the movement and positioning necessary to put together spells of quality possession. The range of passing, and some of the through balls are superb.

- "Super Keepers": (from 10.2)

I'm pleased to find that they've ditched their magic flying capes, in favour of the regulation issue Goalkeepers gloves.

They're realistic now, better than on 10.1, but not "super human".

- "Corner Bug":

In my very first game, it was the first goal I scored. Not set up to intentionally exploit it, as I always have a player attacking both posts at corners, but I was pleased to find that in ten games, it's only happened twice, despite my having a player in a position that could take advantage; and one of those times, the shot was cleared off the line. So, in other words, it's pretty much like the normal chances of scoring from a corner to the near post.

- Flashing Goal box (commentary):

I've seen some people unfortunately finding that it is not working properly for them, but I'm pleased to note that this has not once been an issue for me, so it can't be a universal problem.

- Future Transfers and Transfer History cancelled?

I was worried about this, having read that it's affected a lot of people, but I'm relieved to report that this issue has not been the case in my experience. History is all intact, and my future transfer is still there, all set up and ready to arrive in the January window.

- Injuries:

My first game saw us collect two minor knocks, and then for the next three games, at least one player per game was picking up a knock. Just as I was beginning to think it may be programmed that way, things began to calm down. Three games in a row without knock or injury followed, so that was good enough to allay my concerns.

Over the course of my first ten games, I've had six knocks in matches, one resulting in minor injury (out for a week); plus a concussion and one strain in training. The longest injury was two weeks. So I'd have to say I've experienced nothing out of the ordinary.

One thing I seem to be finding though, is that it is much more unlikely for a player carrying a knock to return to a good condition during the match, than it was on 10.1. Hopefully I've just been unfortunate in that regard so far.

- Ratings:

A most welcome improvement.

On the surface it may seem like a small thing, but it really does make a big difference to my enjoyment of the game. No longer is it necessary for a player to score or assist, in order to receive a good rating. He now only has to play his own role to the best of his ability, in order to be rated highly for his contribution to the team. It is great to see my Defensive Midfielder getting an 8.5 just for doing what he does best, and likewise for my Defenders. So much more realistic!

Very impressed.

- General:

The Match Engine on the whole, feels much slicker and smoother, with noticeably less lag on my trusty old single core machine; and also seems to produce a much more flowing and realistic brand of football, which is a very good thing when you watch all your games in Full Match mode.

The game in general is running much better, faster, and with much more responsiveness; using noticeably less system resources. There is a drastic reduction in memory usage.

All in all, whilst I have encountered a few random minor glitches (mostly when switching between TV View and Tactics with the game paused); I have to say that patch 10.3 is the most enjoyable version I've played in a long time.

For the first time since FM2007, Football Manager has that coveted "Immersion Factor" back for me.

Credit where it's due, well done SI; and thanks for a very enjoyable game.

I hope that this solution with wingers will work, as its ruins the game for me, every cross is headed above goal and wide tactics and wingers are as useless as 10.2

will try it right away, thanks for sharing