Twittergate (aka FM2010 work in progress screenshot)

[Retro]

Oh I see. I'm sorry: I thought this was a forum for discussion. He's made some controversial points and people are criticising that point of view - which is the whole point of a forum.

If I make a point I expect people to raise any issues they have with it and be critical if need be. I also expect some people to use humour and put in some banter too. It's all part of the discussion.

If we're all going to be so precious that we can't handle a bit of criticism, counter-argument or banter then this forum really is dead.

[andre_costa]

People are criticizing and name calling SFraser, not his points of view. There's a tiny little big difference there.

I don't know what kind of discussion you think we'll get from that. Same thing happens to ... let's see, wwwfan whenever he tries to engage in any kind of meaningful discussion about the Match Engine.

But then again, i am most likely in the wrong here since i rarely post here and i guess i'll keep it that way.

[Retro]

No you need to go back and re-read the responses because on the whole (a couple of flippant comments aside) they have all been a reaction to what he said. Due to his nature, SFraser is bound to attract the odd negative comment about his character and behaviour.

I'll agree that occasionally, some users (like msteuk and Big Geordie) will get negative comments made almost every time they post and I don't like to see that really. A post should be taken on it's own merits.

If SFraser makes a point in the future that's good or at least raises a decent issue, he won't get any grief from me. I don't hold vendettas and I don't bear grudges - I don't care who the poster is if the comment is relevant. But what has escaped his notice is that most of OTF is like that. If everyone bore a grudge against me every time we had a disagreement I'd have no-one left to discuss anything with.

[rougess]

Retro's summing this up quite nicely, I feel the same way

[Neil Brock]

Please keep this relatively on-topic guys. If you want to discuss the forums in general I would suggest doing so in OTF - this thread is more for the new UI and pointing a finger at Miles and going 'Hah-hah' Nelson style for leaking it

[Elrithral]

Where'd my post go?

[vaderspurs]

I really like the skin-looks clean, accesible-pretty great really.

I know I won't get an answer (but thought I'd try anyway), will FM come out at the more traditional time this year (Oct) or will it likely be November again?

[arsenal_2111]

I really like the skin-looks clean, accesible-pretty great really.

I know I won't get an answer (but thought I'd try anyway), will FM come out at the more traditional time this year (Oct) or will it likely be November again?

You won't get an answer from anyone til release date is officially announced.

[damienroden]

What mixer were you using? I like cranberry.

[TomDixon77]

What mixer were you using? I like cranberry.

Mixers are for girls.

On topic, it looks like a bunch of new stuff for skinners to work out \o/

[arsenal_2111]

On topic, it looks like a bunch of new stuff for skinners to work out \o/

And I was only just getting to grips with the current stuff

[Doog]

Anyway, that's it for now. I'm going to go back into hiding, waiting for Sonic the Hedgehog to come and tell me off for the screenshot getting out there, and I'll be back mid next month with details of our next games.

would sega actually be upset about the screenshot being put on the web like this? it strikes me as a really good idea to reveal work-in-progress stuff like this because you can get all the feedback from the community and if someone spots some glaring flaw with it then it can be fixed before any of the features are finalised

[Stevicus]

Sorry to take this off topic, but anyone who does not like the forums because they don't like people arguing or critisizing their views, should stop moaning. If you really do get hurt and upset if someone slates you, there is no point in complaining unless you come up with a decent counter argument, no need to get upset and moany if someone you don't know and will probably never meet doesn't agree with your posts.

On topic- I think this "event" is good for SI and Sega, this way they can recieve some feedback about the UI and can make necessary changes should it turn out to recieve negative feedback.

Sometimes leaks can work to their advantage.

[Hamselv]

this thread is more for the new UI and pointing a finger at Miles and going 'Hah-hah' Nelson style for leaking it

Well the skin is simply too white. I very much prefer the old FM07 one, and no matter how many improvements you might feel you are making, it doesn't matter if it's too bright to look at for extended periods of time, which I'm sure most FM gamers often do. If you keep it like this then at least bundle the game with a pair of sunglasses.

Oh and Miles, I've felt like doing this ever since the DRM in FM09 turned out to cause just as many problems as I predicted. So now that it's actually one of the objects of this thread, then this one is for you

[rougess]

On topic- I think this "event" is good for SI and Sega, this way they can recieve some feedback about the UI and can make necessary changes should it turn out to recieve negative feedback.

Sometimes leaks can work to their advantage.

I agree, and luckily Miles said he's been pleased with the reaction so hopefully this could be the start of a mid-July screenshot every year

[Sean Paul]

Please make a dark skin version. I could bear the show stopping bugs, tiresome additions that add nothing to the game and more to the chores, if i could only look at the screen and see what the feck is going on.

[brindlefly]

It is not that bright. I had reservations about it, but looking at the pic further, it really is not bad. You will get used to it within a few minutes I reckon

[Dreaded Walrus]

Some people prefer darker screens for energy reasons, too. See, for example, Blackle[/u] (with their about page giving reasons why you might want a black Google).

I'm actually fine with it, although it is probably a bit too bright for my liking (I liked the FM09 skin when first unveiled, however)

[Ov Collyer]

The "it's too white" argument is interesting - if you browse to your favourite web sites or open up your favourite applications, how many have a pale background and how many have a dark background?

[Liniert]

where is this image i cant find it

[Dreaded Walrus]

where is this image i cant find it

http://twitpic.com/a9jzt/full

[Selleckta]

I particularly like the light colour scheme, what seems to be a well-structured tabbing approach, and the calendar strip accross the top of page.

[Bigwig]

The "it's too white" argument is interesting - if you browse to your favourite web sites or open up your favourite applications, how many have a pale background and how many have a dark background?

Maybe people don't want their game to feel like a website.

[crouchaldinho]

The "it's too white" argument is interesting - if you browse to your favourite web sites or open up your favourite applications, how many have a pale background and how many have a dark background?

It should be noted that the two most popular 'unofficial' skins for FM09, Steklo and Klasa, have dark backgrounds.

I'm not even particularly big on 'skinning' but I know about these two skins and much prefer them to staring at a bright background. Much easier on the eyes.

C.

[Ando THFC]

The "it's too white" argument is interesting - if you browse to your favourite web sites or open up your favourite applications, how many have a pale background and how many have a dark background?

I don't think it's the white background so much (for me at least) but rather the lack of contrast. So you end up with shades of grey on a white background.

Basically, there's just too much grey.

[Boycey]

The "it's too white" argument is interesting - if you browse to your favourite web sites or open up your favourite applications, how many have a pale background and how many have a dark background?

it appears some like the white, some want dark, wouldnt it just be best to include 2 or 3 skins, so a light one like so, a dark version and maybe the fm09 skin or a alternative?

[Ter]

It's quite easy to say it's too white or bright when looking at a screenshot but when playing the game you don't really notice it. Some of you naysayers may be pleasantly surprised when you get the chance to use it.

[brindlefly]

Indeed. I will learn Not to criticize things before using it at some point in the future

[tbradsha]

I'm sure there is some glaringly obvious reason why not, but why can't we just pick our own colour scheme from the options? Is it entirely necessary to keep hard coding things like colour or font size(within parameters, obviously)? Every year I get the game and end up playing about trying to make the text larger because I'm a geek whose eyes are screwed after 25 years staring at screens... when I code apps for work it is a (legal?) requirement to adjust things like font size for visually impaired users.

On topic though, that skin does look good.

[swisso]

I wonder if thats a full-screen shot? I would miss the tree-menu on the left side

[arsenal_2111]

It should be noted that the two most popular 'unofficial' skins for FM09, Steklo and Klasa, have dark backgrounds.

I'm not even particularly big on 'skinning' but I know about these two skins and much prefer them to staring at a bright background. Much easier on the eyes.

C.

Flex is also reasonably dark, and the official skin that is based on is the last one I remember that was popular with most people.

[Hamselv]

The "it's too white" argument is interesting - if you browse to your favourite web sites or open up your favourite applications, how many have a pale background and how many have a dark background?

There is a difference between browsing web sites and playing games. When you are playing a game, you end up looking at the same GUI for a long time, and then a dark background is more relaxing for the eyes. When visiting web sites it's usually somewhat more briefly and different web sites will also offer variations so you are not looking at the same things all the time. That's one of the main differences.

Personally I spend a lot of time programming, and I usually customize my IDEs to run with a dark background, simply because it is a lot better when you have to look at it for a long time.

In various office applications I am looking at white backgrounds, but then again that's mostly related to work and, unlike when I'm playing a game, the object is not necessarily to relax.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I have heard people commenting on my FM with something like this: "A game? It looks like an Excel sheet!"

With the recent skins it's getting a lot more difficult to win that argument...

Flex is also reasonably dark, and the official skin that is based on is the last one I remember that was popular with most people.

That's the skin I'm using on FM08. Fairly basic layout, but it uses the color scheme from FM07, which makes it a lot more pleasant to look at.

[SAFC1]

I dont really see why this issue has caused a massive split. Personally i like it, however even if i happened not to like it ... I would use my common sense that someone will release a skin when the game comes out ... so 9/10 times, people will get what they want

[SFraser]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I have heard people commenting on my FM with something like this: "A game? It looks like an Excel sheet!"

With the recent skins it's getting a lot more difficult to win that argument...

Personally I don't think there is much of an arguement to win. Without statistics and numerical data in depth FM would be rather hard to play.

The arguement regarding brilliant white background and dark backgrounds is one I can understand and agree with, but having said that websites with dark backgrounds are for me extremely unenjoyable to visit. While I personally play with a dark background skin in FM09 I find that dark background websites are an immense eyesore. I have no idea why this is so, but while I enjoy my dark background FM I do not enjoy visiting dark background websites.

Either way the point is moot in my opinion, because no matter what SI produce GUI wise it will inevitably be surpassed from someone elses opinion by the talented and devoted FM skinners. Where backgrounds are concerned this game enables users to change and adapt and even produce their own if they have the skill. I do not expect to spend my time staring at the precise features of that screenshot when I play FM10 but I do expect to spend time looking for a more appealing skin that retains the same or similar functionality.

The apparent functionality is a big step ahead of FM09 from what little has been shown.

[SCIAG]

It's quite easy to say it's too white or bright when looking at a screenshot but when playing the game you don't really notice it. Some of you naysayers may be pleasantly surprised when you get the chance to use it.

It is less noticeable, but you do notice it IMO. I mean, look at that poll I did- the darker 07 skin won hands down against the lighter recent skins.

The "it's too white" argument is interesting - if you browse to your favourite web sites or open up your favourite applications, how many have a pale background and how many have a dark background?

Of the six websites I use regularly, two have dark backgrounds, one is light blue, one is mostly white, one is white but with loads of text and pictures (Facebook), and then there's here- light, but with tints and a dark colour scheme besides. I prefer the darker ones TBH.

[Sean Paul]

A choice of 5 different colours schemes for the default skin couldn't be too hard to implement?

[Statistical Approach]

A choice of 5 different colours schemes for the default skin couldn't be too hard to implement?

I've never played FM handheld but I know a recent version had the choice of a black or white skin. Doing that for the full game would stop people moaning.

For the record I much prefer white to the extent I can't use the default vista theme due to the horrible black glossy effect. I realise more people prefer it that way though.

[Guest roberto922]

Am I one of the few people that really doesn't care as long as I can see what I'm doing? Sure I have preferences but I'm not gonna go on about it.

[andre_costa]

It's the same for me, Roberto. As long the interface is easy to use, i couldn't care less if it's white, black, gray or whatever color.

I have no problems with dark skins/webpages but i can't for the life of me understand why people think Klasa is such a great skin. Stylish? sure. Good? meh...

And that skins poll thread mentioned some posts up has people saying that the itunes-like skin is good. Dear god, make them stop.

[hamilton162]

Looks like a good skin, thanks for that Ter Looking forward to using the new UI, but i'm disappointed that the shortcut buttons appear to have been removed I use them quite a bit.

[SCIAG]

I don't "really" care, but I'd like to not be blinded

I'm not sure how practical it would be, but what about being able to choose your colour scheme from a range of, say, twenty? I'm thinking in the way you change text colour in word processors. Now that would add to the game massively.

[peter-evo]

Looks like a good skin, thanks for that Ter Looking forward to using the new UI, but i'm disappointed that the shortcut buttons appear to have been removed I use them quite a bit.

Hey, this is far from the final skin. There will be changes in the future.

[hamilton162]

Fair enough Peter. If they make the final version, which i hope they do, then i'll be happy

[playmaker]

I don't "really" care, but I'd like to not be blinded

I'm not sure how practical it would be, but what about being able to choose your colour scheme from a range of, say, twenty? I'm thinking in the way you change text colour in word processors. Now that would add to the game massively.

Unfortunately it is not practical. There are dozens of frames, boxes, toolbars, icons on screen, some of which are made up of nine parts (top left, middle left, bottom left, etc.) so that they can be stretched to the resolution or window size and some, like icons and buttons that have several states (normal, clicked, disabled and so on). To recolour the skin once requires changes to hundreds of items, let alone doing twenty variations.

Even then, simply recolouring a white skin to black won't work as you are going from shadows to highlights. It's a lot of work to redesign.

[arsenal_2111]

Fair enough Peter. If they make the final version, which i hope they do, then i'll be happy

Radestock may make the sidebar for FM10, which is very useful as it makes all quicklinks accessible.

[SCIAG]

Unfortunately it is not practical. There are dozens of frames, boxes, toolbars, icons on screen, some of which are made up of nine parts (top left, middle left, bottom left, etc.) so that they can be stretched to the resolution or window size and some, like icons and buttons that have several states (normal, clicked, disabled and so on). To recolour the skin once requires changes to hundreds of items, let alone doing twenty variations.

Even then, simply recolouring a white skin to black won't work as you are going from shadows to highlights. It's a lot of work to redesign.

Ah well. Thanks for explaining that

I suppose thinking of it being done "auto-magically" was a bit naive.

[Lii]

I just wondering if the little triangle on each tab linked to a pull down menu? If not, I think those triangles are not necessary.

[Dreaded Walrus]

I just wondering if the little triangle on each tab linked to a pull down menu? If not, I think those triangles are not necessary.

I reckon that the icon represents which buttons display drop-down menus rather than just taking you to a new screen immediately.

[dragce]

love the new skin

[AJ1]

I really hate the regular FM2007 skin and I really think i'll dislike the one shown in the prototype just as much. Flex is an outstanding skin for FM09 the dark colours and gradients make it much easier to stay looking at for longer periods of time.

It could be that SI wish to leave it up to the community to create skins that they would like rather than them moving resources away from the development side of the game, I can understand that, but it would be nice to see SI have a "light" and "dark" skin just to cater for all tastes.

Secondly, Why mid-august? Fifa 10 have started discussing features now? - I know that FM2010 isn't feature complete, but why not tell us what your thinking of putting into the game, and let us shape it a little bit.

We dont really get asked what we think of features, they are just in and out.

Transparent Widgets was removed and the majority of people wanted it put back in after a patch.

Requesting Fixture Rearrangements from your local FA was removes - why i have no idea its a perfectly realistic feature.

Work Permits - These are ridiculous Manchester City sign every foreign player in my game, and when i try they get work permits rejected.

A Trophy Cabinet - Come on SI give us trophies!

Manager Earnings - Allow us to buy shares in football clubs, either our own, or buy a non league team or something, I've got £15m of earnings sitting in my FM bank account, I would love to be the chairman of a Non-League club and pump finances in, expand stadium etc.