Anyone else worried about the future of the game?

[PAFC_Dugout]

Anyone else worried about the future of FM in terms of how much it will cost us as players in the future? With the news about Unity charging developers per install and the latest apple arcade and Netflix subscriptions, I really do worry that from FM25 onwards it will become an expensive subscription service.
 

I know gaming is changing, inflation etc but 2 years ago you could buy FM for roughly £35, touch mode on IOS for £20, and mobile for £7. 2/3 years later and its now £40 for the base game, a £60 yearly subscription to play touch mode on Apple Arcade, and now a £60 Netflix subscription to play Football Manager mobile. 
 

for those of us who don’t have the time to play the Full FM experience (family/job etc) I feel we really have been punished. With the withdrawal of Touch Mode on PC 2 years ago, to now having 2 subscriptions for Touxh mode and Mobile that is now almost twice as expensive as the cost of the base game. I really do worry about the cost of FM going forward. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by PAFC_Dugout

[alian62]

Im worried that this game , Just like many others , will become a infomation gathering exercise . Wont be able to play unless we are online is a real worry for me . I feel if this is the path they are choosing then FM24 will be my last unfortunetly.

[rusty217]

Nope. I've skipped versions of FM before and I have no issues doing so again if they try some subscription junk. If I'm still playing FM24 in 2045, I'm ok with that (not as if the graphics would've improved much over that time anyway ).

Plus I don't really see SI doing something like that. The game seems a pretty easy money maker. I imagine it only happened to FM Mobile due to lack of popularity, certainly can't see that happening to the proper PC version.

[phnompenhandy]

Maybe, maybe not, but I do think PAFC is painting a viable scenario. It's not too fanciful to wonder if this is part of a larger picture - of football itself chasing greater corporate profits at the expense of "heritage fans".  I think part of the popularity of football computer games is as compensation for lovers of football who have long been priced out of ticket prices and TV subscriptions. It's a real shame the game world chooses to follow the same path. If there's a bright side, it's that FM23 is good enough to be enjoyed for years. I can see myself ceasing to update after FM24 or FM25 if they go down the cynical subscription and/or payable add-ons route, or block free fan-created mods.

[kevhamster]

5 hours ago, PAFC_Dugout said:

Anyone else worried about the future of FM in terms of how much it will cost us as players in the future? With the news about Unity charging developers per install and the latest apple arcade and Netflix subscriptions, I really do worry that from FM25 onwards it will become an expensive subscription service.
 

I know gaming is changing, inflation etc but 2 years ago you could buy FM for roughly £35, touch mode on IOS for £20, and mobile for £7. 2/3 years later and its now £40 for the base game, a £60 yearly subscription to play touch mode on Apple Arcade, and now a £60 Netflix subscription to play Football Manager mobile. 
 

for those of us who don’t have the time to play the Full FM experience (family/job etc) I feel we really have been punished. With the withdrawal of Touch Mode on PC 2 years ago, to now having 2 subscriptions for Touxh mode and Mobile that is now almost twice as expensive as the cost of the base game. I really do worry about the cost of FM going forward. 

I'd be very surprised if SI went down the subscription route for the full game.

With regards to the Touch mode this year and FMM24, firstly the £60 per year subscription for Apple Arcade is for the service as a whole, not just FM so to call this a £60 subscription just for that is quite misleading.  And they have said FMM24 will be available on Google Play and the App Store to download, just you'll need a Netflix login to actually play - I don't think this means you actually need an active subscription although I have asked for this to be clarified.  Whilst I personally think it's nonsense needing a  Netflix login to play the game, that's another issue.

FM makes a huge amount of money each year.  I don't think it would be in SI's interests to mess with their cash cow as a subscription service would not go down well.

And finally, the Unity charging per install, as far as I can see, only applies to developers using Unity's free development tier.  It's fairly safe to assume SI aren't using the free tier.

[Tony Wright 747]

I hope you are right, after waiting years for the improvements that FM25 promises, if they go down the suscription route or you have to be online to play, then I won't be interested

[Sned]

I think the cost of everything these days is a topic we should be concerned about tbf!

I've always felt that with the amount of hours I've put into the game each year, it's provided real value for money for me. I really hope that doesn't change.

I only ever play the base game, so can't comment on the others, but I want those users to feel the same value for money I do, both this year and beyond.

 

[wazzaflow10]

5 hours ago, kevhamster said:

I'd be very surprised if SI went down the subscription route for the full game.

I would as well. I think the subscription models was in reference to availability stadia (RIP) or now gamepass and apple arcade etc. The license agreements would make it very, very tricky to do a subscription model. Having to migrate people to the new version would be a big risk as I'd think the game would have to be labelled FM 24 or FM 25 rather than something generic that can be upgraded. Besides, the subscription model puts you at risk of someone only playing for a month and paying 1/12 of the cost of the full game and then never play again for 11 months. Better to buy the game get the full price up front and not worry if someone is still paying for the game 6 months after release. 

[FourFiveOne]

Personally i dont like assumptions, and i feel like SI is going down that route now. They seem to assume that everyone or almost everyone has Netflix. I never had Netflix and i never will, because its not my cup of tea and i dont need it. Another possible assumption by SI is that everyone has fiber or wifi at home, but thats far from true. The only internet i have at home is mobile data, from my monthly prepaid phone card subscription that gives me 170GB a month. If Unity Engine will force FM players to be online at all time, and the game cant be played offline, i will not be satisfied to say the least. Sure, i could always use my phone as a mobile hotspot, but thats not the way things should be; being limited. Instead of freedom, choice and options, we seem to get less of that in the future. The same with non-PC versions of FM. I see many players and potential players asking for the console and touch versions to be less streamlined and to be more similar to PC FM, in the end why cant SI provide DIFFERENT SET UPS/versions to non-PC FM players? Why limit those versions to only loading 5 playable countries, etc.? Surely devices like consoles and tablets can handle more than 5 playable countries..  Heck, im sure even the latest phone chips like SD 8 Gen 2 can handle PC FM decent enough. So yes, i am worried about the future of FM as we seem to be very limited by device and not getting many options. The only way to play the full fat FM is still only possible on PC and PC handhelds, both costing 800€ and more for something relatively durable that will work for some years. Its a shame that the PC FM version is not accessible for everyone.

[grade]

This for me good and bad. I currently have netflix, as it is now, at no extra cost, it is a sort of freebie for me. it won't be if eventually i decide to cancel it.

But I do see for example be something exclusive instead of Netflix, being exclusive to sky showtime or britbox (I don't have sky showtime or britbox) for example, that is expensive way to play a game, when the previous versions would cost me €9,99 one time payment. I for one would go pick an older version as fast as i can (if not already have) then shell out another subscription fee just to play a game. Not sure if I agree with this.

What I wonder, if SI goes this route for FM, being exclusive for Windows or whatever platform they choose or having FM25 as subscription base. I'm 99% sure they won't do that, but the thing is there is that nagging 1% always looming in my head, because if they did in past for FM Touch (app store) and now Mobile as exclusive to FM Mobile... that doesn't say they won't do it again.

I do understand that SI is a business in the end, and can make sense for them. But if windows showed a multibillion dollar/euro deal or Microsoft becomes their overlords (the way things are heading), no question SI will go that route if it is financially viable for them, regardless of Mac users feelings and outrage. They will abandon them as snap of the fingers, without second thought.

[danielgear]

14 hours ago, FourFiveOne said:

They seem to assume that everyone or almost everyone has Netflix. I never had Netflix and i never will, because its not my cup of tea and i dont need it. Another possible assumption by SI is that everyone has fiber or wifi at home, but thats far from true. The only internet i have at home is mobile data, from my monthly prepaid phone card subscription that gives me 170GB a month. If Unity Engine will force FM players to be online at all time, and the game cant be played offline, i will not be satisfied to say the least

You said you don’t like assumptions then made three assumptions yourself. 

[Fire_03]

Am 13.9.2023 um 04:30 schrieb PAFC_Dugout:

Anyone else worried about the future of FM in terms of how much it will cost us as players in the future? With the news about Unity charging developers per install and the latest apple arcade and Netflix subscriptions, I really do worry that from FM25 onwards it will become an expensive subscription service.
 

I know gaming is changing, inflation etc but 2 years ago you could buy FM for roughly £35, touch mode on IOS for £20, and mobile for £7. 2/3 years later and its now £40 for the base game, a £60 yearly subscription to play touch mode on Apple Arcade, and now a £60 Netflix subscription to play Football Manager mobile. 
 

for those of us who don’t have the time to play the Full FM experience (family/job etc) I feel we really have been punished. With the withdrawal of Touch Mode on PC 2 years ago, to now having 2 subscriptions for Touxh mode and Mobile that is now almost twice as expensive as the cost of the base game. I really do worry about the cost of FM going forward. 

Become a part of the Research Team, do a great job, and finally you will have your free copy.

[rusty217]

3 hours ago, Fire_03 said:

Become a part of the Research Team, do a great job, and finally you will have your free copy.

Really? How much work is it? And does it come with any benefits, like free match tickets?

[Scotty Walds]

Just now, rusty217 said:

Really? How much work is it? And does it come with any benefits, like free match tickets?

Depends on the team you research for, and it's fluid throughout the season making transfer/contract/attribute updates.

No other benefits other than a yearly free copy...

[rusty217]

1 minute ago, Scotty Walds said:

Depends on the team you research for, and it's fluid throughout the season making transfer/contract/attribute updates.

No other benefits other than a yearly free copy...

Aww, too bad. Would've loved free footy matches

That said, unless they're adding the J League there isn't much chance of me being able to research much.

[Scotty Walds]

Just now, rusty217 said:

Aww, too bad. Would've loved free footy matches

That said, unless they're adding the J League there isn't much chance of me being able to research much.

I don't think SI's budget would stretch to all 1500+ researchers getting freebies every week 🤪

[Carambau]

No. I´m not worried. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Carambau

[SergeiG]

Hold on...We will need Netflix for the next version of the game? I guess FM2023 is my last version

[Carambau]

17 minutes ago, SergeiG said:

Hold on...We will need Netflix for the next version of the game? I guess FM2023 is my last version

for FM Mobile

[Iggy Hassan]

20 hours ago, FourFiveOne said:

Personally i dont like assumptions, and i feel like SI is going down that route now. They seem to assume that everyone or almost everyone has Netflix. I never had Netflix and i never will, because its not my cup of tea and i dont need it. Another possible assumption by SI is that everyone has fiber or wifi at home, but thats far from true. The only internet i have at home is mobile data, from my monthly prepaid phone card subscription that gives me 170GB a month. If Unity Engine will force FM players to be online at all time, and the game cant be played offline, i will not be satisfied to say the least. Sure, i could always use my phone as a mobile hotspot, but thats not the way things should be; being limited. Instead of freedom, choice and options, we seem to get less of that in the future. The same with non-PC versions of FM. I see many players and potential players asking for the console and touch versions to be less streamlined and to be more similar to PC FM, in the end why cant SI provide DIFFERENT SET UPS/versions to non-PC FM players? Why limit those versions to only loading 5 playable countries, etc.? Surely devices like consoles and tablets can handle more than 5 playable countries..  Heck, im sure even the latest phone chips like SD 8 Gen 2 can handle PC FM decent enough. So yes, i am worried about the future of FM as we seem to be very limited by device and not getting many options. The only way to play the full fat FM is still only possible on PC and PC handhelds, both costing 800€ and more for something relatively durable that will work for some years. Its a shame that the PC FM version is not accessible for everyone.

Couldn't agree more. Another thing that SI assume is that we all have twitter, Instagram and Facebook accounts which I personally don't due to the fact I'm 50yrs old and have no interest in it. And from what I can see from these forums, there are a lot of older players out there who only buy the base game as a one off payment on one device to enjoy in their free time. Complicating it would certainly be off putting for a lot of older players.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

FM will survive because they brought back the Squad Depth page after my complaints last season.

If it goes again in FM24 then all hope is lost.

[PAFC_Dugout]

13 hours ago, Fire_03 said:

Become a part of the Research Team, do a great job, and finally you will have your free copy.

I’m not asking for a free copy. I’ve purchased every FM since 2008, FM mobile since 2014 and an Apple Arcade subscription for the past year for FMT23 on my iPad. I have no issue paying £40 for the game. My issue is the recent trend of expensive subscriptions to play the “lighter” versions of the game

 

[themadsheep2001]

On 13/09/2023 at 09:18, kevhamster said:

I'd be very surprised if SI went down the subscription route for the full game.

With regards to the Touch mode this year and FMM24, firstly the £60 per year subscription for Apple Arcade is for the service as a whole, not just FM so to call this a £60 subscription just for that is quite misleading.  And they have said FMM24 will be available on Google Play and the App Store to download, just you'll need a Netflix login to actually play - I don't think this means you actually need an active subscription although I have asked for this to be clarified.  Whilst I personally think it's nonsense needing a  Netflix login to play the game, that's another issue.

FM makes a huge amount of money each year.  I don't think it would be in SI's interests to mess with their cash cow as a subscription service would not go down well.

And finally, the Unity charging per install, as far as I can see, only applies to developers using Unity's free development tier.  It's fairly safe to assume SI aren't using the free tier.

SI have actually said, they looked at a subscription model among other things and that it isnt in their plans. 

[RinusFM]

If SI games manages to extend the 1 year save-thingy to 2 or 3 years then I think they have a valuable new income thingy for long term managers. 1 year is fine, but 2 or 3 will make the long term managers coming back each time. Instead of 4 or 6 years in between. I think the future for FM looks great. Specially they told us they want to improve the game from FM25 and onward. It's a good step in the right direction. The game has been stale for so long. Ofcourse feature-wise they will reach a threshold. You can't keep adding and adding and adding. I think chatgtp-like conversations will be great too for the game. It has to make gameplay better, not more boring, tho. Endless talking will stagnate the progress from month to month, season to season too much. We're living such times of technology there's plenty of opportunity's and path to take for FM. If Miles and SI Games want FM to stay relevant FM25 and the future is the way to go.

[phd_angel]

Who knows?...  SI is probably thinking additional ways to monetize. They are probably carrying out price elasticity studies to try to maximize total revenue.

If we mix gaming with streaming, SI may decide to charge a subscription format, or keep the current one-time ownership license, or a mix of both (installation fee plus cheap monthly fees).

Or, if they have technology to go a more immersive route, they may give us an option: a freemium with advert videos and banners, or charge us a monthly fee for an ads-free experience.  

Edited September 28, 2023 by phd_angel

[themadsheep2001]

SI have already said they have no plans for a subscription. 

[Kickballz]

They were having the same argument 14 years ago about subscriptions. It was dismissed back then as well.

Considering SI have no competition, they have no reason not to continue as they are. I don't know the finances - are they still owned by SEGA? I'm guessing it is still a very profitable franchise.