*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread

[paracoolo]

On 05/04/2023 at 13:04, iAlwaysWin said:

I appreciate people need to feed there familes and afford there expensive things, but if you look at the last 4 or even 5 editions of FM, its pretty much been copy and paste with a few added features, doesnt scream huge amount of time, investment and resources to me. Maybe its not time and money thats the problem, but ideas to actually make this game feel fresh and new.

That is false. I played fm22 and i didnt want to try fm23 but I now have fm23 and to say theres not huge differences is a lie. The Data Hub is way better than last years, ai managers are more smart , sometimes they can change tactics and everything, and the ME is better than in fm22, its more realistic, there's more variables. People that think that fm23 is a copy paste fm22 need to play fm22 again. 

[paracoolo]

5 hours ago, LeoFM said:

 

Things like this is what makes the FM23 match engine the worst one I can ever recall. 

Go play fm 22 , you'll come back happy. I played fm22 and thought that fm23 wasnt an upgrade. I'll never play fm22 again. You can still complain about little things but it's way better than fm22, its an upgrade. If you are unhappy about it just go and play Fifa instead of always complaining. Sure theres some things that would be great to have but FM23 is better than FM22 and not a copy paste like many of you say.

[paracoolo]

12 hours ago, BenArsenal said:

Exactly. In fact it feels like international football has regressed in FM23 compared with older FMs. We used to be able to talk to players about lack of playing time and advise them accordingly if they want a call up. That appears to have been gone.

International football is probably the only thing fm23 lacks in but other than that, FM23 is better than fm22

[Sunstrikuuu]

On 04/04/2023 at 06:56, Neil Brock said:

We have a limited number of resources available to us, but where possible we try to read and reply to every single issue raised within the Bug Tracker. 

Nobody blames players for 'not raising bugs' - but what it can do is be extremely helpful to allow us to quickly investigate an issue, giving us more chance of being able to provide a fix on it. In a number of cases if an issue is raised, it's already known internally already, but of course if there are say millions of people playing the game, they're likely to see and encounter more than an internal test team of say 20 or 30 people. Sometimes situations arise in very specific circumstances and it would require a test team to perhaps take hours or even days to reproduce, when an uploaded save can get us to that point almost immediately. 

Thank you for responding, Neil.  I don't want to be toxic towards you or the other devs.  There are some really fantastic people working on the game and I know you guys do your best.  Yearly-release sports titles are a no-win proposition.  Every yearly-release game I know of has some degree of community/player unrest; it's simply the nature of the beast.

That said, in this thread I submitted a bug about playing time expectations, which has had issues for a few versions now, including a save and instructions for reproduction.  @Weston and @Lioncasa followed up with screenshots, issue descriptions and reproducible saves with instructions of their own.  That report wasn't acknowledged for three weeks.  This one, about players remaining on month-to-month contracts for years, sat for nine days, though I really appreciate Kyle's response and timely followup to my additional information.  This post, about wage cap versus maximum allowable wage, sat for twelve days, and though it was acknowledged, I think it's an issue that needs more clarification than simply 'we'll have a look', because it's been in the game for a very long time and is clearly a design feature. 

This report about defender movement includes a description with a timestamp and a PKM; it's never been acknowledged.  Neither has this post about the tactics screen, or this one about marking.  This thread was from beta with a last dev comment asking for more information on February 7; multiple people responded, most recently on March 12. 

This thread I think shows some of the frustrations people are having; certainly that I was.  @Weston submits an issue with a save, multiple screenshots and steps he's taken with the IGE to test what's causing the problem and possible workarounds.  I (in a moment of frustration, I admit) found documentation on the forums that the issue has gone back to at least 2014 and potentially 2009.  Kyle Brown (this is not a shot at Kyle!) responds a month later with developer followup.  On one hand, I really love when SI staff respond to these threads explaining what's going on and why we're seeing what we're seeing.  It's the exception rather than the rule, but it does feel helpful, and it's much better than 'thanks, we will take a look' with nothing else.  But on the other hand, it's a very unsatisfying response: one piece of the report is too inconvenient to investigate, two of the players who are being "poached" do not have contracts, and the feedback given to the user in-game clearly and obviously does not match what Kyle is telling Weston and I.  Kyle, speaking for the devs, says it's a reputation problem; the game's feedback says it's financial.  Both of us responded saying similar things, and didn't hear back.

I don't think the problem with any of these is lack of documentation.  I try to provide time-stamped PKMs, detailed descriptions, saves with instructions for reproduction and when possible screenshots for everything I post in the bug tracker.  But that's kind of a lot of work, and it's very demoralizing to take fifteen or twenty minutes putting together a report of errors in one single match with appropriate screenshots and timestamps, then send it off and have no idea whether it will be acted upon. 

[danej]

Minor bug still in the game, the U18 leagues are switched, north teams play in southern league etc. See screenshot. Is like that every season except for season 1 in my experience.

[anagain]

My mistake. I had a nasty clash of kits but it turns out it was a specific kit pack I added for the Hungarian top flight that did more than the kit packs I usually add to the game, that are just images for the profile pages.

The problem kit pack added remaps for the kits of some clubs.

Edited April 8, 2023 by anagain

[XaW]

18 minutes ago, anagain said:

I think FM needs a way to enable us managers to force change a kit during a match.

Do you use any custom kits? I did an experienced this quite often, but it turns out the custom kits did not match the colours set in the game... So removing the custom kits fixed it for me.

[xenomorphing]

On 05/04/2023 at 14:52, themadsheep2001 said:

Also just on the data update and releasing a full release every 2 years instead. This comes up every year, despite SI previously repeatedly pointing out its a non-starter. 

Halving a companies revenue means half the pot from which funding can be allocated to recourses. You don't need to work at SI to see how that's going to impact making a bigger and better release. 

I don't think funding is an issue considering a **** ton of funding is given to create an entire women football database from scratch which quite frankly 90% of your playerbase will never touch.

[anagain]

32 minutes ago, XaW said:

Do you use any custom kits? I did an experienced this quite often, but it turns out the custom kits did not match the colours set in the game... So removing the custom kits fixed it for me.

I just have a kit images add on. Pretty sure it doesn't change any in game colours.

I could be wrong.

They just add these pics, don't they?

Edited April 8, 2023 by anagain

[XaW]

10 minutes ago, anagain said:

I just have a kit images add on. Pretty sure it doesn't change any in game colours.

I could be wrong.

They just add these pics, don't they?

No, they also change the kits in the match engine, and can sometimes cause clashing kits there. Try to remove them, reload the skin and watch the highlight to see if it's still a clash.

[anagain]

13 minutes ago, XaW said:

No, they also change the kits in the match engine, and can sometimes cause clashing kits there. Try to remove them, reload the skin and watch the highlight to see if it's still a clash.

Found the problem add on. The pack i added for the Hungarian top flight added remapping for colours.

Standard kit packs are just images, like player faces or badges.

I removed the top flight pack and it fixed the clash in the last game. ZTE were playing in blue.

I will edit my post because it's not fair for me to grumble when it was indeeed my fault. 

[dunk105]

Well this is new, although 3 seasons into starting to replace the current Spurs squad with a home-grown rebuild and this pops up- £861m and to not spoil my game its a case of resisting not using it:

 

[MBarbaric]

8 ore fa, dunk105 ha scritto:

Well this is new, although 3 seasons into starting to replace the current Spurs squad with a home-grown rebuild and this pops up- £861m and to not spoil my game its a case of resisting not using it:

 

mr. Agnelli is obviously washing some dirty money and you'll get sacked if they don't get spent.

[Aoyao]

what about this.

[xenomorphing]

It's insane how this game still has no concept of a "last man" foul. Should always be a red. I've yet to see this happen ever.

Same for penalties. I've never seen someone get a second yellow for causing a penalty. Why??

Edited April 10, 2023 by xenomorphing

[waldywaldy]

Cup final moved because of a 5th round FA cup tie?

[XaW]

5 hours ago, xenomorphing said:

It's insane how this game still has no concept of a "last man" foul. Should always be a red. I've yet to see this happen ever.

Probably because that rule is no longer in effect in football.

It has changed to DOGSO. (https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct#:~:text=DOGSO)

Here is an article from 2016 explaining the change: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36047575

Quote

Players committing accidental fouls that deny a goalscoring chance will now be cautioned instead.

But deliberate fouls will still incur a red card.

That said, if you have examples of that rule not coming into effect, posting the example in the bug tracker is the right way of getting it improved.

[xenomorphing]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

Probably because that rule is no longer in effect in football.

??? That's flat out wrong. Last man foul is pretty much always red. It happened so many times this season across multiple leagues, just like how it always has. I watch 5+ games a weekend and not once have I seen someone make a last man foul without getting red, or extreme controversy as to why he didn't get a red. "Accidental last man fouls" pretty much never happen, and if they do, it's most of the time still met with red.

And I have 3000 hours over the last 3 FM's. I've not once, seen a player get a red for a last man foul. It likely doesn't even exist in the game.

Edited April 10, 2023 by xenomorphing

[warlock]

24 minutes ago, xenomorphing said:

It simply doesn't exist in the game

 

[xenomorphing]

1 minute ago, warlock said:

 

 

Did he get a red specifically because it was a last man foul? Or just a dirty foul?

Edited April 10, 2023 by xenomorphing

[warlock]

And then the red card:

Just because you don't remember seeing a thing, it doesn't mean it never happens.

[warlock]

1 minute ago, xenomorphing said:

Or just a dirty foul?

Nah, Evans simply tripped him. As last man, he was dismissed. Commentary also explicitly calls it a professional foul.

[xenomorphing]

16 minutes ago, warlock said:

Nah, Evans simply tripped him. As last man, he was dismissed. Commentary also explicitly calls it a professional foul.

Interesting, so it is in the game, yet it is rarely given. Thats still a big issue. My point still stands.

Edited April 10, 2023 by xenomorphing

[Johnny Ace]

6 hours ago, xenomorphing said:

It's insane how this game still has no concept of a "last man" foul. Should always be a red. I've yet to see this happen ever.

Same for penalties. I've never seen someone get a second yellow for causing a penalty. Why??

This guy got sent off. Last man and second yellow  

[xenomorphing]

21 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

This guy got sent off. Last man and second yellow  

In reality, that's a straight red, not a second yellow. The game probably just noted that as a foul, instead of last man.

Edited April 10, 2023 by xenomorphing

[Johnny Ace]

2 minutes ago, xenomorphing said:

Also, in reality, that's a straight red, not a second yellow. The game probably just noted that as a foul, instead of last man.

Could be seen as the other defender's covering, either way, second yellow for a penno so it's there 

[xenomorphing]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Could be seen as the other defender's covering, either way, second yellow for a penno so it's there

Once again, the game could've seen it as a foul on its own, apart from it being a penalty or not. And it's still wrong, considering this is a straight red.

1 hour ago, xenomorphing said:

Interesting, so it is in the game, yet it is rarely given. Thats still a big issue. My point still stands.

I'll repeat this point for this scenario aswell. I'm far from the only one who has noticed both issues. Posting examples of this is not gonna change the experience alot of people have.

Edited April 10, 2023 by xenomorphing

[Johnny Ace]

I've shown an example of what you said wasn't in the game?

Second yellow for a penalty, right there 

[xenomorphing]

18 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I've shown an example of what you said wasn't in the game?

Second yellow for a penalty, right there 

Lmao. Did you even read what i said? Twice? It's like you didn't read a single word.

Edited April 10, 2023 by xenomorphing

[Johnny Ace]

6 minutes ago, xenomorphing said:

Lmao. Did you even read what i said? Twice? It's like you didn't read a single word.

You said:

7 minutes ago, xenomorphing said:

Same for penalties. I've never seen someone get a second yellow for causing a penalty. Why??

I showed a GIF of exactly that. Foul, in, out the box, it was penalty for a second yellow card with a dubious call on wether the second defender was covering, it was a second yellow for a penalty, simple 

The double jeopardy rule will cover your other point 

 

[xenomorphing]

 

12 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

You said:

I showed a GIF of exactly that. Foul, in, out the box, it was penalty for a second yellow card with a dubious call on wether the second defender was covering, it was a second yellow for a penalty, simple 

The double jeopardy rule will cover your other point 

 

So you did in fact not read what I said. Thank you for confirming.

right before you even said anything:

2 hours ago, xenomorphing said:

Interesting, so it is in the game, yet it is rarely given. Thats still a big issue. My point still stands.

literally replied this to your earlier comment:

1 hour ago, xenomorphing said:

Once again, the game could've seen it as a foul on its own, apart from it being a penalty or not. And it's still wrong, considering this is a straight red.

I'll repeat this point for this scenario aswell. I'm far from the only one who has noticed both issues. Posting examples of this is not gonna change the experience alot of people have.

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by xenomorphing

[Johnny Ace]

Just now, xenomorphing said:

 right before you even said anything:

It's pretty rare in football really, it's not something you see every week. It's exists within the game though so it's not impossible 

If you think there's a issue, report it 

[xenomorphing]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

It's pretty rare in football really, it's not something you see every week. It's exists within the game though so it's not impossible 

If you think there's a issue, report it 

Is this how you treat all people who gave valid criticism? You keep finding ways of going around the reported issue. It's a feedback thread. I gave the feedback that something in reality, is not accurately represented in this game. You think I'd make this critisicm if I wasn't sure and the only one noticing it? Would expect less ignorance from a moderator.

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by xenomorphing

[Johnny Ace]

Just now, xenomorphing said:

Is this how you treat all people who gave valid criticism? It's a feedback thread. Not sure why it exists, if you're going to be in denial about the issue.

What issue? You say it's a big issue but it's the game, I didn't have to dig around to find that example, it was right there 

This is the feedback thread, for feedback, if you think something's buggy or needs to be in the game there's other areas of the forum to post in

[xenomorphing]

Just now, Johnny Ace said:

What issue? You say it's a big issue but it's the game, I didn't have to dig around to find that example, it was right there 

This is the feedback thread, for feedback, if you think something's buggy or needs to be in the game there's other areas of the forum to post in

Lol. Not sure why I'm bothering at this point. Ur stil not grasping what I said, and that's clearly because you don't want to. Gonna leave it at that.

[Johnny Ace]

Just now, xenomorphing said:

Lol. Not sure why I'm bothering at this point. Ur stil not grasping what I said, and that's clearly because you don't want to. Gonna leave it at that.

Yeah, I can't be bothered either

Leave it at that 

[Etebaer]

So , i had a match on a snowy green and on my 4k Screen that flickered ike crazy in the past so bad you had to look away this time it was a soft snow and smooth as silk to watch.

dont know if it is a driver update or a game update but whoever has done the work on it has my earnest thanks!

 

PS: Atm i score more goals also strong players seem to make even more a difference.

[XaW]

11 hours ago, xenomorphing said:

??? That's flat out wrong. Last man foul is pretty much always red. It happened so many times this season across multiple leagues, just like how it always has. I watch 5+ games a weekend and not once have I seen someone make a last man foul without getting red, or extreme controversy as to why he didn't get a red. "Accidental last man fouls" pretty much never happen, and if they do, it's most of the time still met with red.

And I have 3000 hours over the last 3 FM's. I've not once, seen a player get a red for a last man foul. It likely doesn't even exist in the game.

As I showed you in the links (one of them to the FA's official documents for what reasons there are for getting a red card), the concept of "last man" is not in the rules anymore. Of course, hacking down someone in on goal is a red card, but inside the box there is now also the factor of whether or not it was a genuine attempt to play the ball, and if so only a yellow is the right choice.

So no, it's not flat out wrong, I even showed you the rule for it. In most cases the old rule and the new rule will lead to the same outcome, but not always.

[xenomorphing]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

As I showed you in the links (one of them to the FA's official documents for what reasons there are for getting a red card), the concept of "last man" is not in the rules anymore. Of course, hacking down someone in on goal is a red card, but inside the box there is now also the factor of whether or not it was a genuine attempt to play the ball, and if so only a yellow is the right choice.

So no, it's not flat out wrong, I even showed you the rule for it. In most cases the old rule and the new rule will lead to the same outcome, but not always.

The concept of a last man foul absolutely does still exist... My point from the start has been that denying a clear goal scoring opportunity is pretty much always red, and that reds are often given aswell for penalties, or second yellows. Both these facts are not accurately represented in this game. Below a couple from memory from the last few months:

Spoiler

Upecamo straight red in  9' for a last man foul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV3DitROFm4&t=12s

Adli straight red in 80' + penalty for a last man foul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj_VnP_Re_o&t=40s

2 days ago Lejeune got a straight red for a last man foul after a VAR intervention in 59'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnR4C65wpFo&t=97s

Rincon straight red in 38'  for a last man foul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR1s3OrCHP8&t=102s

Opare straight red in 10' for a last man foul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sBfvbuM3Pw&t=60s

Tanghe straight red card in 39' for a last man foul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIHlmWlkwmY&t=60s

Koita gets a straight red in 39' + penalty after a last man foul and VAR intervention

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahiJ9py3J8g&t=125s

Tomori gets a straight red  in 17' + penalty for last man foul in the champions league during Milan-Chelsea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrfjU0gMliw

 

All examples from multiple top European leagues mostly in 2023 alone. Should I keep going?

Edited April 11, 2023 by xenomorphing

[XaW]

6 minutes ago, xenomorphing said:

The concept of a last man foul absolutely does still exist... My point from the start has been that denying a clear goal scoring opportunity is pretty much always red, and that reds are often given aswell for penalties, or second yellows. Both these facts are not accurately represented in this game. Below a couple from memory from the last few months:

  Reveal hidden contents

Upecamo straight red in  9' for a last man foul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV3DitROFm4&t=12s

Adli straight red in 80' + penalty for a last man foul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj_VnP_Re_o&t=40s

2 days ago Lejeune got a straight red for a last man foul after a VAR intervention in 59'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnR4C65wpFo&t=97s

Rincon straight red in 38'  for a last man foul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR1s3OrCHP8&t=102s

Opare straight red in 10' for a last man foul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sBfvbuM3Pw&t=60s

Tanghe straight red card in 39' for a last man foul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIHlmWlkwmY&t=60s

Koita gets a straight red in 39' + penalty after a last man foul and VAR intervention

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahiJ9py3J8g&t=125s

Tomori gets a straight red  in 17' + penalty for last man foul in the champions league during Milan-Chelsea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrfjU0gMliw

 

All examples from multiple top European leagues mostly in 2023 alone. Should I keep going?

As I said, the "last man" impact of the rule is gone, but most cases the result are the same with the DOGSO rule. I'm not saying you are wrong in terms of what the game does or not, mind. I'm simply pointing out that using the term "last man" is outdated, and being the last man does not impact anything unless it's denying a goalscoring opportunity or being a non-genuine attempt at the ball. 

You have gotten a few example of others who seems to have seen it fine in FM, that said, if you have examples of it not being done, please report it in the bug tracker. There might be instances where the game does not interpret it correctly, so reporting it is the best cause of action to get it improved.

While this is indeed the feedback thread, this place is not for outright errors. Those go into the bug tracker. This thread is more for the overall impression and general feel of the game.

[xenomorphing]

33 minutes ago, XaW said:

being the last man does not impact anything unless it's denying a goalscoring opportunity or being a non-genuine attempt at the ball.

You just described the definition of a last man foul... This term is always used by commentators aswell, and referee/var explanations.

Yes, I saw 2 examples, yet I think the multiple people I asked, the hours I have in the last editions, and the 4 people that upvoted the comment, are a better sample size to show that it's an issue. But fine, I'll report it there once i encounter it again.

Edited April 11, 2023 by xenomorphing

[Johnny Ace]

If no one logs it, it won't be looked into @xenomorphing, doesn't matter how many people agree or disagree

I think the GIF I posted was seen as a genuine attempt to win the ball so was a second yellow, so by the rule that's correct

I saw a couple of the examples you posted and none of them were genuine attempts to play the ball, I'd probably take those and post them in the Feature Requests and ask for them to be included in the ME    

[westy8chimp]

FM23 is the first CM/FM I haven't bought. Played the demo, seemed even worse than most new releases. 

Now we are in April i guess all the patches for this version are now done. 

So at this stage - is it worth buying FM23? All i really care about is the ME and any game breaking bugs. Cheers 

 

[ajw10]

3 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

If no one logs it, it won't be looked into @xenomorphing, doesn't matter how many people agree or disagree

I think the GIF I posted was seen as a genuine attempt to win the ball so was a second yellow, so by the rule that's correct

I saw a couple of the examples you posted and none of them were genuine attempts to play the ball, I'd probably take those and post them in the Feature Requests and ask for them to be included in the ME    

SI aren't accepting new ME bugs btw

[Johnny Ace]

4 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

SI aren't accepting new ME bugs btw

Ah, okay 

[Harrymcintyre]

19 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

FM23 is the first CM/FM I haven't bought. Played the demo, seemed even worse than most new releases. 

Now we are in April i guess all the patches for this version are now done. 

So at this stage - is it worth buying FM23? All i really care about is the ME and any game breaking bugs. Cheers 

 

Nah not really worth buying at all. Maybe in a sale, if you haven’t tried fm 20, 21, 22. The game is the biggest waste of money I’ve spent, personally. 

[andu1]

FM really needs a much more capable AI both in match tactics and squad development. It's 2023 so it's not an excuse anymore to keep the minimum sys req at 2013 level.

I am not going to buy the series anymore if they don't a much needed generational leap. It's time

[bahmet]

If I use the level of detail of the championships "All official matches", then the players in these championships develop better?

[Robioto]

-

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Robioto
deleted

[Firehouse]

I'm sure I've read that the bug regarding the youth recruitment has been fixed. The bug where you couldn't ask the board to max it out. But now I don't seem to be able to max out youth facilities. I've maxed out training facilities, I have like 50m euros in the bank, but haven't been able to ask for it for few years. I have only good youth facilities. Has this been a known problem now or am I missing something?