Potential Ability Capped

[iAlwaysWin]

Never really had an issue with fixed potential ability untill now. You see am managing Blackburn Rovers at the moment and have a 18 year old wide player by the name of Tyrhys Dolan, now Dolan has all the raw abilities to become a top Premier League player, at only age 18 you would think with proper training and game time there's no reason why he can't have a great future at the club. But there's one thing that's stopping this, his capped potential ability, who decided in the real world that Tyrhys Dolan will never become a top premier league player? who has this crystal ball to set such limitations on a player? its impossible to tell at this stage in real life how good Tyrhys Dolan will become, but in football manager his future has already been foreseen with this so called fixed potential ability.

Edited January 18, 2021 by iAlwaysWin

[Daveincid]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb iAlwaysWin:

Never really had an issue with fixed potential ability untill now. You see am managing Blackburn Rovers at the moment and have a 18 year old wide player by the name of Tyrhys Dolan, now Dolan has all the raw abilities to become a top Premier League player, at only age 18 you would think with proper training and game time there's no reason why he can't have a great future at the club. But there's one thing that's stopping this, his capped potential ability, who decided in the real world that Tyrhys Dolan will never become a top premier league player? who has this crystal ball to set such limitations on a player? its impossible to tell at this stage in real life how good Tyrhys Dolan will become, but in football manager his future has already been foreseen with this so called fixed potential ability.

I understand what you mean, but is it really that unlikely? I mean there are thousands of young players who make their debut and you just think: "wow, he will be worldclass someday!". I just thought about Federico Macheda at ManU. For me it's not always the case that a player don't fullfill his PA over the whole career, the "lost wonderkids". Sometimes they just perform well because of a high CA, good hidden attributes and some luck. I mean if every youngster who just performs well over a season would became a top-player, we would have 10k PA190-players in this game. 

For swiss side Basel: Why did Xhaka, Shaqiri and Rakitic made such good careers but Samuel Inkoom just plays nowhere today? 

Cheers

Daveincid

[enigmatic]

Two clubs have already released Dolan in his short career, which they wouldn't have done if they felt they felt he had the raw ability to become a top Premier League player.

Sure, occasionally they're wrong, but what's a lot more wrong is assuming every player has the same ability to improve.

[iAlwaysWin]

16 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Two clubs have already released Dolan in his short career, which they wouldn't have done if they felt they felt he had the raw ability to become a top Premier League player.

Sure, occasionally they're wrong, but what's a lot more wrong is assuming every player has the same ability to improve.

No what's more wrong is thinking a researcher from Si has already foreseen Dolan's future down to a mere fixed number. Dolan may or may not become anything special in real life, but what is for sure in real life his limitations are not set by a mere individual's say so.

Remember all these so called wonderkids that didn't reach there potential once upon a time had a really high fixed potential in football manager, but then become nothing and have these numbers changed, why? because researcher's got it wrong predicting a player would become something special just like they can get it wrong setting limitations on players who do become something special, it works both ways you know, the system is only in place because there's nothing suitable to replace it.

Edited January 18, 2021 by iAlwaysWin

[herne79]

4 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

No what's more wrong is thinking a researcher from Si has already foreseen Dolan's future down to a mere fixed number

Have you checked the pre-game editor?  Does he really have a fixed number or is it a negative number such as -7, -8 or whatever?  If it's that, that means each game save you start Dolan will have a different potential between a certain range.  In your save you may have just "rolled low".

If not and it actually is a fixed number, and you believe Dolan has more potential than defined, you need to raise it in the researcher's forum and give your reasoning why the researcher has it wrong.  (That reasoning needs to be more than just "he's young therefore must have bags of potential").  Do you watch Dolan in real life train and play week in week out to be able to properly assess that?

[enigmatic]

35 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

No what's more wrong is thinking a researcher from Si has already foreseen Dolan's future down to a mere fixed number. Dolan may or may not become anything special in real life, but what is for sure in real life his limitations are not set by a mere individual's say so.

Its a game. A game literally based around the idea that all the ideas and skills and physique and ambitions and experience of a footballer can be reduced to a set of numbers set by a 'mere individual'. If you're objecting to the idea of researchers and numbers, FM is not the game for you

If every 19 year old who is good enough to come off the bench in the Championship could be expected to be playing at the top end of the Premier League if given enough time and there was literally no point in scouting for and paying for rare talents, it'd be much dumber and easier game. And it would also be making predictions about footballers futures, just ones which were on average much less accurate.

Man Utd spent over 30 million plus add ons on a couple of foreign 18 year olds when they could have had the 18 year old Lancashire lad released by Preston for free. Are you honestly trying to tell me the football world views them as having the same potential?

Edited January 18, 2021 by enigmatic

[rp1966]

3 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

No what's more wrong is thinking a researcher from Si has already foreseen Dolan's future down to a mere fixed number. Dolan may or may not become anything special in real life, but what is for sure in real life his limitations are not set by a mere individual's say so.

The way FM works players must have a PA set. In the real world people do not have infinite capacity for improvement - that is what PA represents - given the best  training in the world, the player can get this good and no more. That is realistic.

You need to distinguish between Dolan IRL and Dolan in game. Next year he might, IRL, show reason to have his PA increased in game, but for now in the game he's the player the researcher has assessed him as being. 

PA may be just an educated guess, but there is no good way to avoid PA limits and still get a good spread of player abilities.

Maybe you should play with fake names so you don't carry opinions of real players into the game.

 

[forameuss]

44 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Two clubs have already released Dolan in his short career, which they wouldn't have done if they felt they felt he had the raw ability to become a top Premier League player.

Sure, occasionally they're wrong, but what's a lot more wrong is assuming every player has the same ability to improve.

Almost like they're putting some arbitrary ceiling or value on where they believe the player will develop to and making a judgement based on that.

Seems like a good idea, someone should try taht.

[iAlwaysWin]

31 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Its a game. A game literally based around the idea that all the ideas and skills and physique and ambitions and experienceof a footballer can be reduced to a set of numbers set by a 'mere individual'. If you're objecting to the idea of researchers and numbers, FM is not the game for you

If every 19 year old who is good enough to come off the bench in the Championship could be expected to be playing at the top end of the Premier League if given enough time and there was literally no point in scouting for and paying for rare talents, it'd be much dumber and easier game. And it would also be making predictions about footballers futures, just one which were on average much less accurate.

Man Utd spent over 30 million plus add ons on a couple of foreign 18 year olds when they could have had the 18 year old Lancashire lad released by Preston for free. Are you honestly trying to tell me the football world views them as having the same potential?

I never said that every young individual should have unlimited potential and every young player can become something great, i have played football manager for a very long time and understand fully why CA and PA system exists. Am talking about my specific young winger in game who is only 18 and has some good base stats in key areas for his position to suggest that in game he could become a very good player, i don't think this about every young player i see, quite the opposite actually. But his ability to become something good has been set at a low level by a single individual. when in real life at this stage we have no concrete evidence to what my 18 year old wingers limitations are.

The system is in place for a reason, and i fully respect your opinion that not all young players make it, it's just a bit disappointing that i have a young player who i see could become something good for the club, but am pretty much wasting my time on him since his limitations have already been set by the game that is all.

[Sharkn20]

Yeah every single Baby in the world has the potential to be a top Premier League player one day, we should all have a capped potential of 200.

[trevjim]

Dynamic PA. There have been multiple threads on this, and has been debated heavily, with valid points from both sides. I favour dynamic PA and feel it is needed, as do others, but there are many that oppose it. Ultimately its SI decision. It is something that's been brought up for years now by multiple people so there is something to it.

[forameuss]

11 minutes ago, trevjim said:

It is something that's been brought up for years now by multiple people so there is something to it.

Multiple people have brought up scripting being a thing.  That's not really a reliable metric.  

[trevjim]

1 minute ago, forameuss said:

Multiple people have brought up scripting being a thing.  That's not really a reliable metric.  

Scripting is being asked if it exists in the game. Dynamic PA is discussing if how PA is interpreted in the game. Not really the same

[Mr U Rosler]

Lots of examples of players who look like great prospects when young but never push on. 

Robinho was labelled the next Pele, David Bentley, Phil Jones even Grant Hanley to name a few off the top of my head. 

In FM terms, these would be players who were fully formed by 18 years old, hitting their PA cap early with people understandably thinking if they are that good at that young age they will be great by there mid twenties. 

The exception being Robinho, who in FM terms would have a high PA, but a low ambition stat meaning he would be unlikely to get there. 

Static PA makes sense to me. 

[enigmatic]

2 hours ago, iAlwaysWin said:

I never said that every young individual should have unlimited potential and every young player can become something great, i have played football manager for a very long time and understand fully why CA and PA system exists. Am talking about my specific young winger in game who is only 18 and has some good base stats in key areas for his position to suggest that in game he could become a very good player, i don't think this about every young player i see, quite the opposite actually. But his ability to become something good has been set at a low level by a single individual. when in real life at this stage we have no concrete evidence to what my 18 year old wingers limitations are.

The system is in place for a reason, and i fully respect your opinion that not all young players make it, it's just a bit disappointing that i have a young player who i see could become something good for the club, but am pretty much wasting my time on him since his limitations have already been set by the game that is all.

But clubs waste their time developing players that turn into nothing despite having good starting points all the time: it's an important part of football that any attempt at simulation should represent.

Annoying if it's a player you like, but you are also a single individual and unlike the PA range set by the FM researcher, your opinion that Dolan has "all the raw abilities to become a top Premier League player" conflicts with the opinion of the Preston and Man CIty professionals paid to develop youth players who weren't sufficiently convinced of this after watching him on a daily basis to spend a comparatively tiny sum of money on contract renewal. 

Of course if the kind of performances he puts in for Blackburn this season ultimately change people's minds he can be improved for the next version without the need for throwing out PA as a concept or assuming FM researchers and professional coaches alike are clueless about football.

[iAlwaysWin]

48 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Of course if the kind of performances he puts in for Blackburn this season ultimately change people's minds he can be improved for the next version without the need for throwing out PA as a concept or assuming FM researchers and professional coaches alike are clueless about football.

What if he sets the world alight for me in the game, a promising youngster that i have had faith in, shouldn't such things be dynamic in game just like real life, like you just said. There's already dynamics within the game for other aspects. Football Manager isn't always restricted to the confines of reality, as the creators said themselves, once the game world starts everything can change compared to reality.

[Sharkn20]

1 hour ago, Mr U Rosler said:

Lots of examples of players who look like great prospects when young but never push on. 

Robinho was labelled the next Pele, David Bentley, Phil Jones even Grant Hanley to name a few off the top of my head. 

In FM terms, these would be players who were fully formed by 18 years old, hitting their PA cap early with people understandably thinking if they are that good at that young age they will be great by there mid twenties. 

The exception being Robinho, who in FM terms would have a high PA, but a low ambition stat meaning he would be unlikely to get there. 

Static PA makes sense to me. 

Fully agree with this.

[Sharkn20]

35 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

What if he sets the world alight for me in the game, a promising youngster that i have had faith in, shouldn't such things be dynamic in game just like real life, like you just said. There's already dynamics within the game for other aspects. Football Manager isn't always restricted to the confines of reality, as the creators said themselves, once the game world starts everything can change compared to reality.

One game doesn't make a star.

[forameuss]

People don't seem to get that there is massive potential within the current structure for PA for any kind of eventuality.  The problem is likely that these don't happen, or at least aren't as obvious when they do.  Just because there's one fixed ceiling for potential ability (which there should be, and has to be) doesn't mean there aren't a million journeys towards that point.

2 hours ago, trevjim said:

Scripting is being asked if it exists in the game. Dynamic PA is discussing if how PA is interpreted in the game. Not really the same

It is if you're boiling it down to "lots of people talk about it, must be something in it".  People like marmite, Justin Bieber and going out dressed as anthropomorphic animals.  People can't be trusted.

 

[Tyburn]

If I was to know a players actual PA (I don’t, I only go off staff reports) and it was fairly low, I would still play the lad IF he was performing in my set up and progressing well.

I mean how many times have we all had players, that on paper didn’t look all that, that performed to a great standard? Every save I seem to be surprised by at least someone. PA can be a very overrated metric. So much so that to add to realism I’m now starting to think about a save where I blank out every star in the game completely, via modding and skinning, along of course, with numerical attributes blanked out.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Tyburn

[iAlwaysWin]

18 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

One game doesn't make a star.

Not one game... 14 starts - 12 goals - 4 Assists Because like i said i have faith in his attributes and ability, just a little disappointed faith and my judging of a players talent only goes so far since his full potential has already been foreseen by some random researcher that works for Sports Interactive.

[Tyburn]

1 minute ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Not one game... 14 starts - 12 goals - 4 Assists Because like i said i have faith in his attributes and ability, just a little disappointed faith and my judging of a players talent only goes so far since his full potential has already been foreseen by some random researcher that works for Sports Interactive.

You’re better off not knowing. Just enjoy him for what he’s giving you in the moment.

[Sharkn20]

4 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Not one game... 14 starts - 12 goals - 4 Assists Because like i said i have faith in his attributes and ability, just a little disappointed faith and my judging of a players talent only goes so far since his full potential has already been foreseen by some random researcher that works for Sports Interactive.

14 starts doesn't make a Star either. Plenty examples on real life of youngsters that seems that they are gonna eat the world, and they were just early reach of their PA or too lazy to realise it.

I feel the game is great how it is, should be very few Messi's or Ronaldo's popping up every 5 or 10 years, instead of everyone being able to pop to 200 PA at any point because they have 1 good season.

Statistics, if something pop, will come down eventually. Easy, just don't cheat by looking at PA. There are plenty players to go after with higher potential that will quickly make you forget about others.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Sharkn20

[iAlwaysWin]

Just now, Tyburn said:

You’re better off not knowing. Just enjoy him for what he’s giving you in the moment.

Yeah your right, he's doing good and his stats are improving to a good level for the championship, just don't think he will cut it in the premiership, but you never know as you said some players play well beyond there level.

[enigmatic]

9 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Not one game... 14 starts - 12 goals - 4 Assists Because like i said i have faith in his attributes and ability, just a little disappointed faith and my judging of a players talent only goes so far since his full potential has already been foreseen by some random researcher that works for Sports Interactive.

If he's scoring for you, why do you even care?

The list of players who scored freely in a team that plays to their strengths in the Championship but never had what it took to become top Premier League players is long.

[kalokalitokalo]

To me, the best way to sort this kind of things would be to link CA with player reputation (maybe it would be needed an overhaul of rep system). This way you get rid of capped PA and you could have  also late explosions a la Vardy, etc.

 

Or following the previous example you can have Robinho's or Bojan's that in the early stages they look great and then when going to a bigger club they stagnate.

 

Just an idea.

[HUNT3R]

12 minutes ago, kalokalitokalo said:

To me, the best way to sort this kind of things would be to link CA with player reputation (maybe it would be needed an overhaul of rep system). This way you get rid of capped PA and you could have  also late explosions a la Vardy, etc.

If you don't look at the actual number under the hood, you can already have this, imo.

12 minutes ago, kalokalitokalo said:

Or following the previous example you can have Robinho's or Bojan's that in the early stages they look great and then when going to a bigger club they stagnate.

This is in the game, in some form at least. Signing a big contract early on can have the consequence that a player thinks 'I've made it' and he becomes a bit complacent or he's not AS dedicated/professional as he used to be. With a poorer personality, players could develop slower and maybe not reach the heights they were supposed to.

Or, again on the theme of not looking at the actual number, you (and your coaches) THINK you have the next big thing and then they never have the potential to push onto the next level.

[santy001]

3 hours ago, iAlwaysWin said:

What if he sets the world alight for me in the game,

Then he already has the attributes needed to perform at that level, so why would they necessarily need to be higher? 

It is very likely that at 18 he would be on a -X PA and so there will be a band within which it falls when the game starts up. It's not very often researchers will assign a fixed PA to an 18 year old so you might have just had the player fall on the lower end of the spectrum in your save. 

- - - - -

Any kind of dynamic system, in which in game performance or criteria would not work because the human player would almost always be able to game the system and overwhelm it. 

[Marko1989]

Fixed PA has just one good thing - it does not let players to develop infinitely. 

And it is very limited, after a couple of saves you can learn which players will develop good.

And, your player Dolan could win 3 ballon d ors in a row and not improve at all because of the fixed PA. That is how limited the current system is.

Dynamic potential would have more benefits. It would also prevent players from developing infinitely, but it would also make every save game more different, each save you would see some new good player, dynamic PA would produce late-bloomers and such. 

But, sadly, FM veterans very rarely accept changes even if that would be improvement, so I don't see any time soon anything better than fixed PA

[turnip]

You can have each save be different - holiday for a few seasons with 'Fake Players' checked.

Now you have no idea who any of the players are and it's like you've got your beloved imaginary Dynamic PA system without SI even having to do anything!

 

(Also, lol at the "old FM players ruining it for everyone because they won't accept change". I've been playing since CM2 - this game has changed plenty and it's almost all been for the better)

Edited January 18, 2021 by turnip

[enigmatic]

5 minutes ago, Marko1989 said:

And, your player Dolan could win 3 ballon d ors in a row and not improve at all because of the fixed PA. That is how limited the current system is.

If he'd actually won 3 Ballon d'Ors he'd hardly need to improve....

 

But no, the actual point of the system is to stop random average youngsters improving so much they win the Ballon d'Or

[kalokalitokalo]

2 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

If you don't look at the actual number under the hood, you can already have this, imo.

This is in the game, in some form at least. Signing a big contract early on can have the consequence that a player thinks 'I've made it' and he becomes a bit complacent or he's not AS dedicated/professional as he used to be. With a poorer personality, players could develop slower and maybe not reach the heights they were supposed to.

Or, again on the theme of not looking at the actual number, you (and your coaches) THINK you have the next big thing and then they never have the potential to push onto the next level.

I think you got me wrong.

 

I'm not saying that high CA makes the player to have high rep. I'm saying that CA development should be determined by player rep and that we discard the PA. This is what we got from game to game. In a FM version a not known young player is a **** and then in the following year the player is a wonderkid because he has got known.

 

No ceiling, every save different depending in how reputation goes. That's why I said maybe a reputation overhaul would be needed for this idea.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, kalokalitokalo said:

I'm saying that CA development should be determined by player rep and that we discard the PA.

That's a horrible solution. Reputation doesn't make a player good or not, now or in the future. Plenty of 'wonderkids' over the years had the hype/rep and went nowhere.

[Marko1989]

9 minutes ago, turnip said:

You can have each save be different - holiday for a few seasons with 'Fake Players' checked.

Now you have no idea who any of the players are and it's like you've got your beloved imaginary Dynamic PA system without SI even having to do anything!

 

(Also, lol at the "old FM players ruining it for everyone because they won't accept change". I've been playing since CM2 - this game has changed plenty and it's almost all been for the better)

Holiday for a few seasons and fake players? Thanks, so much better than real players and dynamic potential

[Daveincid]

This discussion just shows me again that SI just does it right, they leave it as it is

[kalokalitokalo]

5 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

That's a horrible solution. Reputation doesn't make a player good or not, now or in the future. Plenty of 'wonderkids' over the years had the hype/rep and went nowhere.

Much better than having all the players stagnated at 23 years old IMO.

That's the way researchers work from FM version to other:

Bojan in FM 08:

Just because he was famous.

 

I'm saying that the game should work in the same way as SI researchers do.

 

Another example is Alphonso Davies.

 

2 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

This discussion just shows me again that SI just does it right, they leave it as it is

Yeah. I was just throwing an idea of a much more realistic way for players development than the current one. Anyway nevermind.

[Marko1989]

12 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

If he'd actually won 3 Ballon d'Ors he'd hardly need to improve....

 

But no, the actual point of the system is to stop random average youngsters improving so much they win the Ballon d'Or

Well, that is exactly what is the problem with current system.

I have saved this screenshot from FM 2015. I have started the save game with Pordenone, I think Serie C in Italy.

For a 16 year old, with 12 passing, 13 technique, 13 acceleration, 13 decisions he was by far the best midfielder in my team. Yes, he has 6 determination. But he is just 16y old. What if he change his look on life, on football, ok he maybe has Balotelli personality but what if he changes suddenly and became more motivated and such. That is where dynamic potential/personality would be good.

So, I have this player and as I've said, he is my best midfielder. You could say, great, I will try to build my team around him, maybe he became very good midfielder. But current system does not even let you even try that. 

I already know that he will not develop much, because I already know that Pordenone has no any wonderkids, and, I already know that there is no any point of keeping him or giving him playing time since he will not develop. At 16y of age in FM you can guess players whole career.

There is nothing that can convince me that this system is not limited and that it can't be improved with something else.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, kalokalitokalo said:

That's the way researchers work from FM version to other:

Bojan in FM 08:

Just because he was famous.

 

I'm saying that the game should work in the same way as SI researchers do.

Bojan was actually fantastic, if you remember. You can blame researchers all you want, but the entire world drooled over this kid. Me included. It was his attitude that let him down IRL, IIRC, not the fact that he didn't have potential.

[kalokalitokalo]

I'm not blaming anyone.  I just said how researchers work.

 

If a player become famous, he gets a boost. When he loses reputation, attributes drop. Just apply that to player development ingame.

Look Alphonso Davies in FM20 and now in FM21. Just 6 months from march update to game release. What is the difference? Yeah, his real world reputation.

 

4 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

It was his attitude that let him down IRL, IIRC, not the fact that he didn't have potential.

No, It was his ability what let him down.

Bojan's attitude has been always good. He never got critics from that. And yeah, I'm Spanish, I know and remember him very well.

[Tyburn]

9 minutes ago, Marko1989 said:

Well, that is exactly what is the problem with current system.

I have saved this screenshot from FM 2015. I have started the save game with Pordenone, I think Serie C in Italy.

For a 16 year old, with 12 passing, 13 technique, 13 acceleration, 13 decisions he was by far the best midfielder in my team. Yes, he has 6 determination. But he is just 16y old. What if he change his look on life, on football, ok he maybe has Balotelli personality but what if he changes suddenly and became more motivated and such. That is where dynamic potential/personality would be good.

So, I have this player and as I've said, he is my best midfielder. You could say, great, I will try to build my team around him, maybe he became very good midfielder. But current system does not even let you even try that. 

I already know that he will not develop much, because I already know that Pordenone has no any wonderkids, and, I already know that there is no any point of keeping him or giving him playing time since he will not develop. At 16y of age in FM you can guess players whole career.

There is nothing that can convince me that this system is not limited and that it can't be improved with something else.

Why do you know they don’t have any wonderkids? Because you checked. Stop looking and enjoy each player for what he is in the moment and what he brings to your team, in the moment.

Knowing everyone’s PA just takes the fun out of it imo.

[iAlwaysWin]

10 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Bojan was actually fantastic, if you remember. You can blame researchers all you want, but the entire world drooled over this kid. Me included. It was his attitude that let him down IRL, IIRC, not the fact that he didn't have potential.

But yet in FM21 he has a potential ability of 146, quite low for someone that once upon a time was touted as being one of the best strikers in the game, yet Balotelli still has a potential ability of 180 in FM21 , which suggests to me that he never really made it to his full potential, either way the system does not work from a realism point of view, it works in keeping structure within the game that is all.

[HUNT3R]

4 minutes ago, kalokalitokalo said:

Bojan's attitude has been always good. He never got critics from that. And yeah, I'm Spanish, I know and remember him very well.

You should read a few more articles about him. Pressure was one issue and a major one according to a few.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, iAlwaysWin said:

But yet in FM21 he has a potential ability of 146, quite low for someone that once upon a time was touted as being one of the best strikers in the game, yet Balotelli still has a potential ability of 180 in FM21 , which suggests to me that he never really made it to his full potential, either way the system does not work from a realism point of view, it works in keeping structure within the game that is all.

Researchers aren't perfect. They, as well as coaches/scouts IRL and coaches/scouts in game change opinions about players.

 

[iAlwaysWin]

Just now, HUNT3R said:

Researchers aren't perfect. They, as well as coaches/scouts IRL and coaches/scouts in game change opinions about players.

 

True nobody is perfect, not even the best scouts in the world always get it right, but i assure you in FM when Bojan was considered one of the best wonderkids, his PA ability was alot higher than 146, so researchers get it wrong both ways, but the current system is set in stone how good a young player can and cannot become, the system is very one sided.

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, iAlwaysWin said:

True nobody is perfect, not even the best scouts in the world always get it right, but i assure you in FM when Bojan was considered one of the best wonderkids, his PA ability was alot higher than 146, so researchers get it wrong both ways, but the current system is set in stone how good a young player can and cannot become, the system is very one sided.

Don't look at the numbers under the hood. That's the best advice I can give.

Also, it's not a good idea to post actual PA numbers without spoilers.

[iAlwaysWin]

Just now, HUNT3R said:

Don't look at the numbers under the hood. That's the best advice I can give.

Understand my friend, cause like others have said players can play well beyond there attributes, i have seen it so many times a player with low ability playing well beyond there limitations, and i will continue to have faith in players that aren't exactly fancied by the game in terms of numbers, its just frustrating that my faith and eye for a good player can never be fully rewarded by the game.

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Minute schrieb iAlwaysWin:

but the current system is set in stone how good a young player can and cannot become, the system is very one sided.

This is actually not 100% correct. Even if you have a newgen with PA 200, if his hidden attributes are so bad, he won't reach it, not even close. And if you wouldn't check his PA with a tool you wouldn't even know that he was this talented. So it's just a value to hold the balance in the gameworld. My only argument to solve this topic years for years again is that SI denies us the access to this value^^  

[kalokalitokalo]

6 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

You should read a few more articles about him. Pressure was one issue and a major one according to a few.

This is off topic now and I will let it here after this post, but pressure handling and lack of/bad attitude are two completely different things.

 

Bojan problems were that he had no ability to be a world class  and he was constantly put in Barcelona starting eleven so they could say they had an starting XI with 100% of players from "La Masía" (remember he was playing instead of Zlatan).

Then Villa comes and Messi moves to F9. End of the overrated Bojan. Nothing to do with his attitude.

 

Bad attitude whas what Deulofeu had.

[iAlwaysWin]

3 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

This is actually not 100% correct. Even if you have a newgen with PA 200, if his hidden attributes are so bad, he won't reach it, not even close. And if you wouldn't check his PA with a tool you wouldn't even know that he was this talented. So it's just a value to hold the balance in the gameworld. My only argument to solve this topic years for years again is that SI denies us the access to this value^^  

Which is why i said can and cannot become, a wonderkid with 200 PA still has the opportunity to become world class, my player for example who has a PA of 128 will never become world class, no matter how good he performs for me because the game is restricted to fixed numbers.

Edited January 18, 2021 by iAlwaysWin

[Tyburn]

2 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Which is why i said can and cannot become, a wonderkid with 200 PA still has the opportunity to become world class, my player for example who has a PA of 128 will never become world class, no matter how good he performs for me because the game is restricted to fixed numbers.

If he performs well, who cares?