Still too easy?

[GreenTriangle]

The game already has countless tools that allow both the configuration of a reasonably easy career but also the configuration of an extremely difficult career. I always prefer the possibility of using these tools than the mandatory establishment of artificial difficulty levels. However, even on the "extremely difficult" level, there will be enough people to claim they have won the Champions League 99 times in a row. Because they can. After all, who can check what are they doing ? 

[Brother Ben]

14 hours ago, Viking said:

Interesting questions. First one: I would probably buy it even if it gets even harder. I have bought it for 25 odd years and it has been too hard for me the last five-six-ten years anyways. I mostly do it to support SI after all the fun I've had with the game over the years. Well, that and a naive hope that I one day will understand this sorcery you people call "tactics".

Second question: Hard to answer, really. That depends what the modes represent to me. I mean, this game is apparently very easy right now, and still it's football management on nightmare mode for me. I am usually one under par with the board expectations, so to speak, when I play a "successful" save, IE, If the board expect me to finish in the top, I end up in the (lower) middle of the table. If the board expect a mid table finish, I am at the very bottom when the curtain falls. If there was a mode that made it possible for me to stay on par, I'd pick it.

I also understand that I am not the mainstream player (I think); I want the game to be relaxing and causal, but I don't want the watered down experience. I want the stats, the interactions, the editor. I'm just not smart or interested enough to want to spend valuable time on learning tactics. I think a "Director of football" mode would be perfect for me. I hire the manager and buy the players, then the manager can sort things out on the pitch while I eat tacos and watch YouTube.

Funnily enough I'm the same, I buy it every year without fail, they would have to really do something horrible to the game at this point to lose my custom.

You are not the only one who finds this game hard, far from it.  This thread does not represent everyone that buys the game.  I myself am terrible at the game.  Awful in fact.  I'm yet to win a league or get a promotion in FM21, I mostly scrape around trying to avoid relegation (which can be rewarding to be fair).  I don't read tactics forums or anything like that though, I prefer to work things out for myself.  I figure when (if) I get some success it will be super sweet as I will feel like I will have earned it and worked it out for myself.  This is not typical though and I would imagine most people in my position would either quit or head to the internet for help. 

My theory is that a lot of players, through watching youtube of FM, blogs, forums and the millions of various FM content out there, have just absorbed so much info on FM that it will be an awful lot easier for them to be successful whether they are downloading tactics or just inadvertently absorbing information online and these things cannot be unseen.

In terms of your playstyle would it not be worth your while to get an instant result skin or just holiday through match days maybe?  This may create what you are looking for

[GreenTriangle]

They can create their own extremely difficult saves just by using or not using certain options. All available materials are far from covering absolutely all possible combinations of options. For some approaches there are simply almost no written or video infos. I don't think that a player so experienced that he can be qualified as an "expert" is unable to set up an extremely difficult save on his own.  FM is highly configurable. It's one of the most configurable games.

[Ripamon]

On 30/03/2021 at 02:00, busngabb said:

Looking at my current squad on FM and I'm now thinking the biggest issue with the game is the finanances and squad building. In the game it's just far too easy to build a super squad. You can sign 7 or 8 players that improve your side per season, even with a relatively modest transfer budget, just by abusing future fees and sell on clauses. Sure at some clubs that will have consequences, but at a lot of the bigger teams that people will use and those who grow and get taken over, the owner will just throw money in to cover it.

In my current save I'm only a few seasons in but I've only got about three players who were there when I joined. That kind of turnover can happen, but it's rare and it's very unlikely to be successful.

Having so much freedom as the manager with transfers is probably incredibly unrealistic. In real life Carlo Ancelotti isn't going to be ringing Delia and offering her £5m up front, £40m over the next 3 years and a 40% sell on clause for Max Aarons randomly one day. He'd have chats with Brands building up to the transfer window to identify the targets he feels the club needs, Brands would likely push back on those and there would be compromises. After establishing the budget and the areas needed, they'd then have meetings to identify the targets and prioritise them. Brands would then negotiate with Delia and Max Aarons would be signed a day before the window ends . He also wouldn't be able to say 'we need a right back and a world class centre-back' and then throw a £20m package in installments out for a South American wonderkid striker who hasn't been scouted and isn't known to the club.

As with my ealier post I'm not suggesting SI make it so hard to buy players that you sit tearing your hair out and throwing darts at pictures of your chairman. But just signing five wonderkids on big deals on installments with no scouting at all probably shouldn't be allowed. You should be given the budget, be able to ask for more etc. Then you should have to select what you need in the window and prioritise the targets and draw up a shortlist. E.g we need a left winger and a striker, 75% of the budget on the striker for the first team, 25% on the winger as backup. You choose the players you want, if you choose players who haven't been suggested by the scouts you should have to scout him first, even if it means waiting a window. The club then does the negotiations realistically. If you then spot that Lewandowski has been transfer listed or you want another player you should have to approach the board for that and the success would be based on your reputation, the finances and the need for the signing. It makes it more difficult, it would make youth development more valuable and it would add a challenge to the game. It would also open up media stories about the board backing the manager and allow ex-players to come out and say the club needs to spend and ex-managers to say they'd have won the league with that level of spending etc. It would also open up the kind of long-term stories you get with clubs trying to get a certain player over multiple windows.

Sounds like a right chore tbh 

[Platinum]

On 26/04/2021 at 13:18, GreenTriangle said:

There ARE a lot of "difficulty modes" already. But a lot of people use to play on easy mode and they wonders why it's so easy.

What difficulty modes are you talking about?

[GreenTriangle]

Are you an expert and do not know how the difficulty can be changed? And if you're not an expert, why do you find the game so "easy"? Are you sure you are playing FM?

[Icy]

hace 9 horas, GreenTriangle dijo:

Are you an expert and do not know how the difficulty can be changed? And if you're not an expert, why do you find the game so "easy"? Are you sure you are playing FM?

To avoid confusion here, the difficulty can be only changed using house rules like playing only youth teams, or delegating tasks to your staff so they are like the AI ones, not in game features except starting with the lowest reputation, that makes the game more difficult initially but that is solved before midseason just giving the right team talks, press releases and praising your players training and performances and of course winning games. 

Of course you can play a save where you only sign and use goalkeepers for every position, or play the game with your screen turned off or with handcuffs in your hands, and I bet it's very difficult to succeed but... I don't think it's the type of challenge we are discussing here.

And to be clear, I'm against difficulty levels as I don't know how they could be implemented (I'd hate boosting other teams attributes or stuff like that), what we need is better AI specially in long term teams building and management and smarter players and press interactions.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Icy

[Brother Ben]

2 hours ago, Icy said:

To avoid confusion here, the difficulty can be only changed using house rules like playing only youth teams, or delegating tasks to your staff so they are like the AI ones, not in game features except starting with the lowest reputation, that makes the game more difficult initially but that is solved before midseason just giving the right team talks, press releases and praising your players training and performances and of course winning games. 

Of course you can play a save where you only sign and use goalkeepers for every position, or play the game with your screen turned off or with handcuffs in your hands, and I bet it's very difficult to succeed but... I don't think it's the type of challenge we are discussing here.

And to be clear, I'm against difficulty levels as I don't know how they could be implemented (I'd hate boosting other teams attributes or stuff like that), what we need is better AI specially in long term teams building and management and smarter players and press interactions.

I just think self inflicted rules are the only way.  I have plenty of friends that play FM and they just want to blast through the game, win the champs league with their favourite side and that's it. 

I had a conversation with them about the difficulty etc and they simply said they wouldn't buy it if it were too hard/realistic

I wonder how many would be happy with a career like Sam Allardyce for instance?  A highly thought of manager but he has only ever won a couple of play off finals and a fourth tier title in 30 seasons.  Who would be happy with that?  And lets face it he's a bad example because he's a household name.

I say all this as a person who is a glutton for punishment and it took me 10 seasons to get out of Vanarama North in FM20, and by get out I mean I was sacked, but how many other players would be happy to have careers like that?  My guess is I'm in the minority.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Brother Ben

[Mars_Blackmon]

4 hours ago, Icy said:

To avoid confusion here, the difficulty can be only changed using house rules like playing only youth teams, or delegating tasks to your staff so they are like the AI ones, not in game features except starting with the lowest reputation, that makes the game more difficult initially but that is solved before midseason just giving the right team talks, press releases and praising your players training and performances and of course winning games. 

Of course you can play a save where you only sign and use goalkeepers for every position, or play the game with your screen turned off or with handcuffs in your hands, and I bet it's very difficult to succeed but... I don't think it's the type of challenge we are discussing here.

And to be clear, I'm against difficulty levels as I don't know how they could be implemented (I'd hate boosting other teams attributes or stuff like that), what we need is better AI specially in long term teams building and management and smarter players and press interactions.

Yea we got passed that conversation and talking point, it’s time for real solutions now…

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, Brother Ben said:

I just think self inflicted rules are the only way.  I have plenty of friends that play FM and they just want to blast through the game, win the champs league with their favourite side and that's it. 

I had a conversation with them about the difficulty etc and they simply said they wouldn't buy it if it were too hard/realistic

I wonder how many would be happy with a career like Sam Allardyce for instance?  A highly thought of manager but he has only ever won a couple of play off finals and a fourth tier title in 30 seasons.  Who would be happy with that?  And lets face it he's a bad example because he's a household name.

I say all this as a person who is a glutton for punishment and it took me 10 seasons to get out of Vanarama North in FM20, and by get out I mean I was sacked, but how many other players would be happy to have careers like that?  My guess is I'm in the minority.

Idk but I’ll tell you what, the leaderboard would matter more than it does now if everyone wasn’t having success with little effort.

[Brother Ben]

I wonder what the answer is to all of this then?  

I guess the overall takeaway is how do you make a successful management game harder/more realistic without alienating a huge chunk of your player base, who would immediately accuse the game of being rigged (and possibly not buy future versions) if they were starved of instant success?

I for one do not have an answer to it but thankfully for me I'm bad enough at the game and when you couple that with the LLM guidelines I follow then the game is a big challenge for me, but I do empathise with the guys in this thread who find the game too easy and thus unrewarding, that must be infinitely frustrating.

[GreenTriangle]

4 hours ago, Icy said:

 the difficulty can be only changed using house rules like playing only youth teams, or delegating tasks to your staff so they are like the AI ones, not in game features except starting with the lowest reputation, that makes the game more difficult initially but that is solved before midseason just giving the right team talks, press releases and praising your players training and performances and of course winning games.

OK

1. What do you think about in-game editors or scouting tools ?

2. What do you think about so called "wonder tactics" available for download ?

3. What do you think about team and player morale ? There are 17 ways you can affect them but the game offers certain tools to help the player manage countless interactions. Why would a truly "expert" player use those tools ?

4. What do you think about tactical configurations ? The game can generate over 3,000 different tactical approaches ... but the large majority of tactical configurations presented as "winning tactics" are based strictly on a set of 6 obsessively used instructions. Can't "experts" find another way to succeed?

5. What do you think about those extremely powerful tools offered by FM, tools that allow a relatively mediocre club to build (in just a few years !) more developed and more productive football academies than the one owned by Ajax Amsterdam IRL? Should an expert use these tools ? 

6. ...

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, Brother Ben said:

I wonder what the answer is to all of this then?  

I guess the overall takeaway is how do you make a successful management game harder/more realistic without alienating a huge chunk of your player base, who would immediately accuse the game of being rigged (and possibly not buy future versions) if they were starved of instant success?

I for one do not have an answer to it but thankfully for me I'm bad enough at the game and when you couple that with the LLM guidelines I follow then the game is a big challenge for me, but I do empathise with the guys in this thread who find the game too easy and thus unrewarding, that must be infinitely frustrating.

I’d start with fixing some of the loopholes and exploits. That includes having the ability to play a high intensity tactic for 90 minutes all season with players that aren’t equip to do so, without a worry of injuries. Sure you’ll get some jaded players but that wouldn’t matter if you have depth which is also pretty easy to achieve.

[GreenTriangle]

And who forces an expert player to use exactly those tactical configurations based on an excessively high intensity? It's strictly his choice : "you know, I chose this easy way myself. Why is so easy ?"

Edited April 28, 2021 by GreenTriangle

[Brother Ben]

6 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

I’d start with fixing some of the loopholes and exploits. That includes having the ability to play a high intensity tactic for 90 minutes all season with players that aren’t equip to do so, without a worry of injuries. Sure you’ll get some jaded players but that wouldn’t matter if you have depth which is also pretty easy to achieve.

I'd say that was fair and clearly achievable. 

It's a good thing to push SI to change and it would definitely make things more realistic

[Mars_Blackmon]

2 minutes ago, GreenTriangle said:

And who forces an expert player to use exactly those tactical configurations based on an excessively high intensity? It's strictly his choice : "you know, I chose this easy way myself. Why is so easy ?"

That’s really a near sighted argument. You’re not looking at the bigger picture which is attribute effectiveness.

[Brother Ben]

2 minutes ago, GreenTriangle said:

And who forces an expert player to use exactly those tactical configurations based on an excessively high intensity? It's strictly his choice : "you know, I chose this easy way myself. Why is so easy ?"

You make a good point but as others have said in this thread they don't want to have to limit themselves in order to make the game realistic which I can kind of agree with.

I will say though that I do limit myself a lot by not using player search and using a 1 hour signing rule for Amateur and Semi Pro teams etc but what I've come to realise is that we should all strive to get the most realistic experience "out of the box" as we can, until then i'll follow LLM guidelines to give myself a challenge but i'll always support those who push for a more realistic experience 

[GreenTriangle]

The most realistic approach: do not use all tools provided by the game. IRL a manager has much less freedom. He depends much more (than on FM) on his board and club directors. He does not always find quality backroom staff, and, moreover, he does not find any quality staff to accept low salaries at a club with a low reputation. He doesn't find too many quality free players either.

Edited April 28, 2021 by GreenTriangle

[GreenTriangle]

24 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

That’s really a near sighted argument. You’re not looking at the bigger picture which is attribute effectiveness.

There are a lot of tools intended to be used by less experienced players and "casual" players. It is assumed that more experienced players have enough knowledge to play without those tools. And many of them really have. But some are bothered by the fact they have to choose whether or not to use those tools. Why ? Is this choice ... too difficult ?

[Footix]

FM15 was alright. I had fun with that one, winning games and promotions, really enjoying the game. Sadly, I've bought FM every year since but now I can't get anything to work. At all. I win a few games and think I'm finally on to something, only to get thrashed by relegation fodder in the next game. The tactics just don't make any sense to me, with all the roles and instructions in so many layers. When it all goes wrong, is it because... 

My formation is bad? 

My team instructions are bad? 

My formation is good but is weakened by a certain team instruction? 

My formation is good but I picked the wrong role and / or duty? 

The setup is OK but the player filling the role is not up to the task? 

Everything is fine but the player had an off day / is out of form? 

 

It's just too much. I have no idea what to look for and how to pinpoint any issues. By now I just press play and pray for the best. 

And the worst part is I am still going to buy FM22, because I love FM! I want to succeed! 😂

[zindrinho]

On 28/04/2021 at 14:25, Mars_Blackmon said:

Yea we got passed that conversation and talking point, it’s time for real solutions now…

Have a much more reactionary AI, have them change up things at least 3-4 times each game, and more noteworthy changes like directness and closing down.

If you have to figure out how to stop the AI almost constantly and not just once its also much more realistic. It could also help the in-game Mourinho if he could react to what we do, not just sit back and hope for the best, he "always" gets fired now halfway into first season.

[GreenTriangle]

So, you have the magical key for penetrating very compact defenses? And that key works regardless of the individual characteristics of the players? In other words, no matter player attributes (yours and opponent players), no matter the tactical configuration used by AI, you will always be able to score as many goals as you want ? I would really like to see this wonder key.

[CARRERA]

Well, difficulty is always relative especially in single player games, as there is no Human counterpart neither a ladder.

so realistically the only way is to limit yourself or to „boost the AI“ with better stats and other benefits. 

waiting until AI is brought to a Human level might take still some years ;-)

and honestly playing for a certain Szenario and immerse yourself into the world and struggles of lower leagues or to a mid tier side can be quite fun. Though I can understand anyone who is not willing to limit theirself. Therefore a boosted AI as in many other games might be the solution. 

[Tyburn]

Try and play network games. Easier said than done for some I am sure, but the challenge other humans give is great.

Haven’t played single player in over 5 years now. 

[Outrospective]

My first season with Shakhtar on that old journeyman which started with Wealdstone and continued on to Torquay and Torpedo Moscow.

I honestly don't know how the thing on the screenshot is possible without AI boosting one specific team and designing it as a competitive rival for the player to keep him engaged. Especially given the fact that Vorskla was ESPECIALLY average the next season, losing only one mid-season loan player of the title-winning squad. Probably has something to do with the champion manager leaving to Feyenoord, but still.

As for the second season, I had to pull 28 wins with two draws against Dynamo Kyiv to win that league with 4 points gap. You do realize that it means 86 points for me and 82 for Dynamo? At this point I don't even care if somebody accuse me of savescumming, I just know that it's my legit biggest achievement in all the FM series since 2010 when I had unbeaten seasons with Leverkusen in 15 season save.

I see countless posts with people botching the title on the final day and losing it with like 1 point gap to some team which is ridiculously OP in comparison to the whole league. I understand that UPL is a bad example as Shakhtar and DK are really the only two teams with an idea of playing football there, but I've seen EPL posts, Championship posts and even Vanarama posts with the same scenario. There ALWAYS is a team which is designed to win and you can compete only if you ridiculously overpower yourself. Ended the previous season with Shakhtar with 35 mln debt because of the transfers to help me win the title, btw.

That game has a lot of drama purely for added value. Just like the programmed referee mistakes.

Wonder what will the third season with Shakhtar bring. Dynamo started with two draws and all of a sudden I couldn't break the 13th place Desna literally standing with eleven men in the box and clearing the ball. Just after I've beaten Vorskla doing the same while losing during the match. If it's not catching up for the rival to prevent player from going too strong and losing interest, I don't know what it is.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Outrospective

[glengarry224]

You can certainly handicap yourself.  I use the in-game editor to jack up the other teams in my league:  mostly increase the attributes of my rival managers (sometimes other staff), give teams more money and improve my rival's facilities.  Often, I'll do that to the league above me to prepare for my promotion.  But it's time consuming and boring to do.

I still enjoy the game but would appreciate a simple difficulty option.  We can choose other setup options, why not that?

[hefewe1zen]

I have read some discussions whether FM was easy or not.

Then I looked at Steam achievements and I don't understand why its's even a discussion anymore.

The base is 84% of total players (players with at least 1 win). Achievement stats of this base (FM2019):

Unbeaten for 10: 85%,
10 wins in row, Manager of the Year, Most goals scored, Least conceded: around 64%
Promotion 36%
Unbeaten league season 29%

So depending on how many players exactly start with ManCity etc., this is a super easy arcade-ish game for the majority of players. The Minecraft of sports simulation games.

I personally agree that a realistic game would be far less popular... on the other hand, I'm only in my 3rd season, currently leading League One by 10 points after being promoted from L2 but seeing that this is effectively Fifa on easy mode, I don't really feel the motivation to continue.
 

 

 

[Travis Bickle]

I'd appreciate some input.

I quit FM last year, I just bought FM21 to give it another go. I've been playing since FM 2005 so I'm a pretty experienced player.

Started off with a perfect pre-season including a 6-0 over Juventus as Marseille. Afterwards, I beat Monaco and Lille in my opening games very easily. Then, I lose 1-0 to Lorient. I was instantly reminded why I grew just plain exhausted of this game. I had more shots, more shots on target, much higher xG, more possession, and yet somehow I lost. I get it, these games happen in football, and I don't expect to win every game, but in my absence of FM, I played a lot of strategy games. In strategy games it's just never the case a good strategy random fails. I could always pin-point why exactly I failed playing other games and clearly mark how I improved over time. For the love of all that's holy, I cannot figure out why I lost 1-0 to Lorient in FM21 other than the game going "lol screw you". I watched the whole game as I always do when starting out btw.

What's the point of spending hours crafting a perfect coaching team, recruiting the best players I could for each position to suit a particular play-style, and meticulously going over my tactics watching every minute of every pre-season match for the game to pull something like that? In other games, every single time I lost or made a mistake, I had to take it on the chin and learn from what I did wrong. In 16 years playing FM I can still not figure out why stuff like the Lorient loss happens other than the fact my strikers refused to hit the target, my wingers refused to square it for an easy tap-in, and my defenders decided to stand-still whilst the oppositions below average forward outpaces them all and slides it past my keeper.

If I could refund I would.

I can't be bothered anymore. Maybe it's not the games fault. Maybe it's all my fault and those 16 years of playing FM were wasted but I still don't understand why stuff like this happens and I'm already too fatigued with the game to try and figure out why again.

I guess this game just isn't for me anymore. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Travis Bickle

[Platinum]

2 hours ago, hefewe1zen said:

I have read some discussions whether FM was easy or not.

Then I looked at Steam achievements and I don't understand why its's even a discussion anymore.

The base is 84% of total players (players with at least 1 win). Achievement stats of this base (FM2019):

Unbeaten for 10: 85%,
10 wins in row, Manager of the Year, Most goals scored, Least conceded: around 64%
Promotion 36%
Unbeaten league season 29%

So depending on how many players exactly start with ManCity etc., this is a super easy arcade-ish game for the majority of players. The Minecraft of sports simulation games.

I personally agree that a realistic game would be far less popular... on the other hand, I'm only in my 3rd season, currently leading League One by 10 points after being promoted from L2 but seeing that this is effectively Fifa on easy mode, I don't really feel the motivation to continue.
 

 

 

I don't think this is a good way of judging if the game is easy. l would bet that a large number of players restart the game if they lose a match they think they should have won/got an injury to a key player/failed contract negotiations with a player (most people I know in real life that play the game do this). However as we have no idea how many players did this tis best to just ignore the achievements.

[Platinum]

48 minutes ago, Travis Bickle said:

I'd appreciate some input.

I quit FM last year, I just bought FM21 to give it another go. I've been playing since FM 2005 so I'm a pretty experienced player.

Started off with a perfect pre-season including a 6-0 over Juventus as Marseille. Afterwards, I beat Monaco and Lille in my opening games very easily. Then, I lose 1-0 to Lorient. I was instantly reminded why I grew just plain exhausted of this game. I had more shots, more shots on target, much higher xG, more possession, and yet somehow I lost. I get it, these games happen in football, and I don't expect to win every game, but in my absence of FM, I played a lot of strategy games. In strategy games it's just never the case a good strategy random fails. I could always pin-point why exactly I failed playing other games and clearly mark how I improved over time. For the love of all that's holy, I cannot figure out why I lost 1-0 to Lorient in FM21 other than the game going "lol screw you". I watched the whole game as I always do when starting out btw.

What's the point of spending hours crafting a perfect coaching team, recruiting the best players I could for each position to suit a particular play-style, and meticulously going over my tactics watching every minute of every pre-season match for the game to pull something like that? In other games, every single time I lost or made a mistake, I had to take it on the chin and learn from what I did wrong. In 16 years playing FM I can still not figure out why stuff like the Lorient loss happens other than the fact my strikers refused to hit the target, my wingers refused to square it for an easy tap-in, and my defenders decided to stand-still whilst the oppositions below average forward outpaces them all and slides it past my keeper.

If I could refund I would.

I can't be bothered anymore. Maybe it's not the games fault. Maybe it's all my fault and those 16 years of playing FM were wasted but I still don't understand why stuff like this happens and I'm already too fatigued with the game to try and figure out why again.

I guess this game just isn't for me anymore. 

Man City could have won the league today but Aguero did a really rubbish paneka for a penalty and Chelsea lost. Sometimes a player is having a bad day and doesn't play well. Real people are implementing your tactics and real people are not 100% reliable.

If you are looking for a strategy that doesn't have human error (in this case football player error) as part of the game then sports games aren't going to work.

Edited May 8, 2021 by francis#17

[GreenTriangle]

3 hours ago, hefewe1zen said:

on the other hand, I'm only in my 3rd season, currently leading League One by 10 points after being promoted from L2 but seeing that this is effectively Fifa on easy mode, I don't really feel the motivation to continue.

You can't get such results if you don't use some tools to reduce the game difficulty. In other words, you play on easy mode. Don't tell me about tactics. Ordinary tactical configurations (those not based on exploits) do not allow such unrealistic performances. As for the comparison with that game ... sorry, but that game needs levels of difficulty because it's much less complex than FM. And less realistic, to be honest.

[hefewe1zen]

34 minutes ago, GreenTriangle said:

You can't get such results if you don't use some tools to reduce the game difficulty. In other words, you play on easy mode. Don't tell me about tactics. Ordinary tactical configurations (those not based on exploits) do not allow such unrealistic performances. As for the comparison with that game ... sorry, but that game needs levels of difficulty because it's much less complex than FM. And less realistic, to be honest.

I don't use any tools, neither any downloaded tactics. I haven't reloaded a single time this season. It's not that overpowering, 4th and 4th in my first two seasons, promoted via playoffs but League One is much easier for some reason.

I also played almost a season in Bundesliga 3 before my hard drive crashed... led the league. Recently started a FM20 game in Serie C, only 11 games into the season but I'm leading there too. It feels that once morale is high, it's way too easy.

Just look at achievements, I'm in the bottom third of FM players, others dominate more than that.

[Travis Bickle]

1 hour ago, francis#17 said:

Man City could have won the league today but Aguero did a really rubbish paneka for a penalty and Chelsea lost. Sometimes a player is having a bad day and doesn't play well. Real people are implementing your tactics and real people are not 100% reliable.

If you are looking for a strategy that doesn't have human error (in this case football player error) as part of the game then sports games aren't going to work.

I get it, but these games happen too often in FM for the game to be fun for me.

I've not felt like the AI ever outsmarted me (which would be fun, I'd be fine with the AI one upping my tactics), they just get very lucky because my players seemingly can't bury the plethora of 1on1s they get whereas their 11 finishing/10 composure striker buries the first chance he gets.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Travis Bickle

[ksk3591]

too too easy

[GreenTriangle]

45 minutes ago, hefewe1zen said:

I don't use any tools, neither any downloaded tactics. I haven't reloaded a single time this season. It's not that overpowering, 4th and 4th in my first two seasons, promoted via playoffs but League One is much easier for some reason.

I also played almost a season in Bundesliga 3 before my hard drive crashed... led the league. Recently started a FM20 game in Serie C, only 11 games into the season but I'm leading there too. It feels that once morale is high, it's way too easy.

Just look at achievements, I'm in the bottom third of FM players, others dominate more than that.

1. League One is much easier ? Really ? Did you really play FM ? Let me ask you something: why are so many players obsessed with PA, CA and player development as long as they could play with any kind of players ?

2. Once morale is high. But what do you do if it's not high? Do all the players in your game have personalities that allow you to raise their morale anyway and whenever you want? But what about complacency? Exist something like this ? Or in your game all the players from the lower leagues will continue to play exceptionally indefinitely? But what about Ai's tendency to play more and more defensively as you get better results? Did you find that miracle key with which you can penetrate any defense, no matter how compact, even if it is composed of much better players than yours ?

Absolutely everything you said suggests one thing : either you haven't played this game ... or you play it on an extremely low difficulty.

[hefewe1zen]

1 hour ago, GreenTriangle said:

1. League One is much easier ? Really ? Did you really play FM ? Let me ask you something: why are so many players obsessed with PA, CA and player development as long as they could play with any kind of players ?

2. Once morale is high. But what do you do if it's not high? Do all the players in your game have personalities that allow you to raise their morale anyway and whenever you want? But what about complacency? Exist something like this ? Or in your game all the players from the lower leagues will continue to play exceptionally indefinitely? But what about Ai's tendency to play more and more defensively as you get better results? Did you find that miracle key with which you can penetrate any defense, no matter how compact, even if it is composed of much better players than yours ?

Absolutely everything you said suggests one thing : either you haven't played this game ... or you play it on an extremely low difficulty.

Are you aware that there is no difficulty settings or just trolling?

[GreenTriangle]

It's clear. You haven't played this game. If you had played you would have found out that there are countless tools that can make this game relatively easy ... or extremely difficult. So, I ask you ... have you heard of complacency? About player personality? About the impact of consistency on players' abilities ? And maybe you'll explain detailed how you can win countless games when the AI plays extremely defensive and you do not have hiqh quality players. We are talking strictly about the game, not about your opinion about a certain person.

Edited May 9, 2021 by GreenTriangle

[hefewe1zen]

10 hours ago, GreenTriangle said:

It's clear. You haven't played this game. If you had played you would have found out that there are countless tools that can make this game relatively easy ... or extremely difficult. So, I ask you ... have you heard of complacency? About player personality? About the impact of consistency on players' abilities ? And maybe you'll explain detailed how you can win countless games when the AI plays extremely defensive and you do not have hiqh quality players. We are talking strictly about the game, not about your opinion about a certain person.

I haven't found any such tools within the game (other than in-game editor which I have only used once to bring back a player who I unintentionally lost).

I'm curious whether the complacency and other issues will kick in, it's 30 league games into the season and morale has been sky high. The only time when some players were complacent was 3-0 up in easy games. My tactic is cautious/standard so the AI is probably not playing extreme defensively.

I think people have talked about the various things which make the game easy but since you're asking:

- humans are much better at squad building my, players are probably of good quality (predicted finish 13th, payroll also middle of the pack) - AI is probably evaluating players on star ratings only
- squad has much more depth (meaning fresh players all the time)

- humans can better react tactically

- tactics 451, wing backs, 2 midfielders going forward a lot behind a deep lying forward - they are my primary scoring threats this season, lot of goals from 20 yards, wing backs are also way too OP I think (always free to receive the ball, constant 7.1 average ratings)

- playing out of defense is key, in League Two my passing % was far ahead of anyone, I always make sure my defense passing % remains high each game (playing from the back sometimes needs some tweaking, for example if opponents are pushing high)

- I always make sure I have aerial advantage

But overall, I think the way my midfielders score a lot from outside the box is an indication that the match engine is scripted to let me win.

Edited May 9, 2021 by hefewe1zen

[Mars_Blackmon]

2 hours ago, hefewe1zen said:

I haven't found any such tools within the game (other than in-game editor which I have only used once to bring back a player who I unintentionally lost).

I'm curious whether the complacency and other issues will kick in, it's 30 league games into the season and morale has been sky high. The only time when some players were complacent was 3-0 up in easy games. My tactic is cautious/standard so the AI is probably not playing extreme defensively.

I think people have talked about the various things which make the game easy but since you're asking:

- humans are much better at squad building my, players are probably of good quality (predicted finish 13th, payroll also middle of the pack) - AI is probably evaluating players on star ratings only
- squad has much more depth (meaning fresh players all the time)

- humans can better react tactically

- tactics 451, wing backs, 2 midfielders going forward a lot behind a deep lying forward - they are my primary scoring threats this season, lot of goals from 20 yards, wing backs are also way too OP I think (always free to receive the ball, constant 7.1 average ratings)

- playing out of defense is key, in League Two my passing % was far ahead of anyone, I always make sure my defense passing % remains high each game (playing from the back sometimes needs some tweaking, for example if opponents are pushing high)

- I always make sure I have aerial advantage

But overall, I think the way my midfielders score a lot from outside the box is an indication that the match engine is scripted to let me win.

That’s easy mode. Use “Work ball inside box” so your mid fielders don’t shoot from outside…

 

lmao.

[laurentius82]

There is a solution to the game being too easy. It's called The Many Steves Challenge:

Enjoying my save a lot, it's actually a challenge to get promoted from the Vanarama North when you're only allowed to have people called Steve at your club.  Still we are overperforming though and looks like we'll finally be able to get promoted in the 3rd season.

[GreenTriangle]

12 hours ago, hefewe1zen said:

I'm curious whether the complacency and other issues will kick in, it's 30 league games into the season and morale has been sky high. The only time when some players were complacent was 3-0 up in easy games. My tactic is cautious/standard so the AI is probably not playing extreme defensively.

I'm curious too. You know, there are certain players characteristics. Professionalism, pressure, temperament, even consistency. Which cannot be improved just by the mere existence of a high morale. They themselves influence that morale (directly or indirectly) and also influence a player's behavior, including during the game. So, I can assume you created (in the 3rd league !) a squad characterized by an unusually high level of professionalism and loyalty, a squad that is not very ambitious (if they were very ambitious you would have enough unhappy players) but which has a positive temperament and at least an average consistency. Are you saying that by selecting such players you did not choose an easy way to achieve performances ?

 

12 hours ago, hefewe1zen said:

- humans are much better at squad building my, players are probably of good quality (predicted finish 13th, payroll also middle of the pack) - AI is probably evaluating players on star ratings only

So, a newly promoted team is listed as the 13th and has enough money (good for you !). What exactly does media prediction depend on ? Two aspects : club reputation ... and an evaluation of the quality of the players from the senior team. Since your club cannot have such a great reputation, it turns out that you have transferred many very good players. Did someone force you? Did you get a message "if you don't transfer good players you will be forbidden to play FM"? No, you have consciously chosen an easier path.

Seriously, how to "evaluate players on stars rating only"?!? Where do those stars come from ? They represent an interpretation of the game related to the various combinations of attributes, but are weighted with skills of these people who present this interpretation to you (assistant, coach, HOYD, etc.). Why would the game need those stars when it has at hand the whole set of attributes that characterize a player ?

12 hours ago, hefewe1zen said:

- squad has much more depth (meaning fresh players all the time)

Of course, especially when you have a very busy schedule. How do you solve this problem ? Do you have a lot of players in your squad? So, what do you do with their "playing time"? Are your players professional, loyal and not very ambitious? Such players are very difficult to find, even in the 3rd English league. And you say you didn't use any scouting tools?

12 hours ago, hefewe1zen said:

- humans can better react tactically

Of course, but it would be a problem : in my game the AI is not able to "read my tactic" ... but it is very able to read a league table or media prediction. So, AI "knows" that my team is playing better than expected ... and, as a consequence, choose to play more defensively. In your game it seems that AI is not able of such a thing. Out of curiosity, what game do you play ?

12 hours ago, hefewe1zen said:

- tactics 451, wing backs, 2 midfielders going forward a lot behind a deep lying forward - they are my primary scoring threats this season, lot of goals from 20 yards, wing backs are also way too OP I think (always free to receive the ball, constant 7.1 average ratings)

Everything you said can be interpreted to be similar as statement : "you know, my car is exceptional because it have four wheels". What combination of team instructions, roles and duties do you use and in what situation ?

12 hours ago, hefewe1zen said:

- playing out of defense is key, in League Two my passing % was far ahead of anyone, I always make sure my defense passing % remains high each game (playing from the back sometimes needs some tweaking, for example if opponents are pushing high)

The question is ... AI, even being "not as smart" as it is, didn't "think" at all to neutralize your DLP using aggressive pressing? In my game it would have done it a long time ago.
(By the way, the "play out of defense" instruction is a tool designed to ease your efforts. It can be partially recreated using a true combination of roles and player instructions)

12 hours ago, hefewe1zen said:

- I always make sure I have aerial advantage

So, your players are distinguished not only by professionalism, loyalty, positive temperament, consistency ... but also by outstanding aerial skills. Are you sure you didn't transfer half of the EPL to your team ?

12 hours ago, hefewe1zen said:

But overall, I think the way my midfielders score a lot from outside the box is an indication that the match engine is scripted to let me win.

Maybe, who knows, especially considering that the game helped you to build a team way better than the usual level of a 3rd league team.

[Tyburn]

I’ve got a suggestion. Been thinking about this a bit lately and I think I’m going to try and give it a go next save... although I play network games only and it might be hard to convince everyone ...

I only speak English, to my shame, but I love to manage abroad. Been thinking that when I get a job, in say, Italy, I force myself to change the game’s language to Italian. So literally everything will be Italian. Or French, or Russian, or Turkish.

I can’t think of much more that would make the game seriously more challenging than genuinely not knowing what anything is!!

Thankfully I pretty much know what’s written everywhere, mostly, but not enough for it not to catch me out. Certain press conferences would be hilarious!

I’m being serious btw.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Tyburn

[Travis Bickle]

To be honest, for anyone who finds the game easy, I recommend starting unemployed.

I think it's the only 'realistic' way to start the game. You can pick your own coaching badges/reputation depending on what kind of team you want to start with, but it forces you out of your comfort zone, often into leagues and clubs you are unfamiliar with. 

Starting say Semi-Pro with a UEFA A Licence (the minimum you need to manage lower leagues iirc) forces you into jobs you won't get everything your way, and will really have to micromanage morale also trusting your scouts/DoF for signings. 

Worth considering imo. 

 

[Brother Ben]

2 hours ago, Tyburn said:

I’ve got a suggestion. Been thinking about this a bit lately and I think I’m going to try and give it a go next save... although I play network games only and it might be hard to convince everyone ...

I only speak English, to my shame, but I love to manage abroad. Been thinking that when I get a job, in say, Italy, I force myself to change the game’s language to Italian. So literally everything will be Italian. Or French, or Russian, or Turkish.

I can’t think of much more that would make the game seriously more challenging than genuinely not knowing what anything is!!

Thankfully I pretty much know what’s written everywhere, mostly, but not enough for it not to catch me out. Certain press conferences would be hilarious!

I’m being serious btw.

Doing this in conjunction with your no star & attribute skin would be crazy!

I can see you suggesting playing blindfolded next  

I wonder what the press conferences will be like.  Will they ask you in another language if you think not knowing that language will be a problem 

[GreenTriangle]

Two suggestions: no reload and no downloaded "exploit" tactics. The game is smart enough to get anyone in trouble.

[Brother Ben]

2 hours ago, GreenTriangle said:

Two suggestions: no reload and no downloaded "exploit" tactics. The game is smart enough to get anyone in trouble.

Both of these things are "cheating" in the context of this thread so you'd hope that would go without saying

[GreenTriangle]

 Both are cheating" in the context of any thread and any game. However, some people may forget this because human memory may have some gaps, so it is necessary to remember this aspect from time to time.

[CARRERA]

Why don't you just leave anyone to play their game as they want? It's very narrow minded to ask other people to stop using almost every game mechanic available (and call it cheating), to make the game more difficult. 

We don't even know yet wether SI claims FM to be realistic or not. Being a Simulation =/= a realistic game. It just tells you, that there is a simulation of certain things behind the scenes and not just throwing a dice. Maybe the primary goal of SI is to create a game that is interesting for a very broad audience, which (who guessed it) is most likely interested in playing a video game rather than simulating real football. I mean, SI decided to release FM for consoles and mobiles. What do you expect?

[Tyburn]

2 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

Why don't you just leave anyone to play their game as they want? It's very narrow minded to ask other people to stop using almost every game mechanic available (and call it cheating), to make the game more difficult. 

We don't even know yet wether SI claims FM to be realistic or not. Being a Simulation =/= a realistic game. It just tells you, that there is a simulation of certain things behind the scenes and not just throwing a dice. Maybe the primary goal of SI is to create a game that is interesting for a very broad audience, which (who guessed it) is most likely interested in playing a video game rather than simulating real football. I mean, SI decided to release FM for consoles and mobiles. What do you expect?

The point is that the game IS too easy for some of us, and the thread is merely a suggestion of what can be done to make it less so. If you enjoy downloading tactics off the net, reloading games, using and abusing the search functions, collecting 5 star potential wonderkids etc etc, that’s totally cool.

But if you do these things and THEN say the game is too easy ... it will be rightly pointed out that these are the reasons.

[CARRERA]

1 minute ago, Tyburn said:

If you enjoy downloading tactics off the net, reloading games, using and abusing the search functions, collecting 5 star potential wonderkids etc etc, that’s totally cool.

But if you do these things and THEN say the game is too easy ... it will be rightly pointed out that these are the reasons.

Well, I properbly would agree on downloading exploit tactics and reloading (which is obviously a fraud to yourself). But buying 5 star potentials or using any other ingame feature should be totally fine and should not denie one from claiming the game to be too easy.

Why are there so many Wonderkids? Why is there no mechanic to stop them to move to a low potential club? Why is there a scouting database, including all players? Why can you even see their attributes when scouted, shouldnt they always be hidden like "hidden attributes"? - Because SI wants the game to be (easy) that way. 

But I'm completely with you, that there should be more options available to restrict certain game mechanics, like the attributes thing. And yes i know, there are skins out there, but it should be included to the game and not by the community.