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Do you want the full release to be harder than the beta?


Do you want the full release to be harder than the beta?   

510 members have voted

  1. 1. This is a genuine question, as from reading the forum this year, it seems that FM21 is even easier than previous versions, and they were already very easy to either win the league every single season with a half-decent team or get six promotions in eight seasons with any lower-league team, both of which are unrealistic.

    • Yes, the game is too easy for me, with any team, and would be more fun for the full release to be harder and offer a challenge
      309
    • No, the game is too easy, but I'm happy to overachieve as it's just a game
      32
    • No, the game isn't too easy and I can't win the league every single season with a half-decent team or get six promotions in eight seasons with any lower-league team
      169


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57 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

 

I very much doubt the number of folk playing FM who never ever have the Steam connected to the internet is even worth mentioning, however, even if it is, if you have even a passing understanding of statistics and the sample sizes needed for accurate extrapolation, then you'll know the figures would largely stay the same.

 

Now granted those figures are for FM20, but we get the same arguments every year. Generally I expect the arguments come from folks mostly setting their rep high, using good teams with downloaded tactics and signing the FOTM players and wonder kids.

Bad player calls good players cheats alert!

 

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1 hour ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

 

I very much doubt the number of folk playing FM who never ever have the Steam connected to the internet is even worth mentioning, however, even if it is, if you have even a passing understanding of statistics and the sample sizes needed for accurate extrapolation, then you'll know the figures would largely stay the same.

Fair.

1 hour ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

Generally I expect the arguments come from folks mostly setting their rep high, using good teams with downloaded tactics and signing the FOTM players and wonder kids.

Also fair.

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1 hour ago, Haribo1681 said:

I'm a bit concerned by what I see from YouTubers who don't seem to do a great deal but smash in a load of goals.

Some also sign tonnes of players in the first transfer window and fill their squad with loans that would never happen in real life.

Not all, but some. 

Then we have that disconnect again.

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Currently managing Watford and in my second season, after 11 games I'm sitting in the second place just 3 points behind Liverpool. Got promoted with over 100 points. Using the tactic that I've used since FM 19 and can't say I have changed much. Don't really think it is because I've got to manage to assemble a squad full of wonderkids without looking at some ready lists or something or I've become a perfect manager. If this is the case for many people then I'd say yes, the game is easier compared to FM 20. But if you ask me whether I want it to be changed, I'd say absolutely no, if the game is going to make us feel like something is scripted and ME doing all the ridiculous stuff to make us lose or draw against strong opponents no matter how good we play and how perfect our tactic is. When playing FM 20, you could see and feel when watching highlights that you were not going to win no matter what you do, which made me stop playing after getting annoyed from unreasonable corner kick and free kick goals and players conceding funny penalties at the end of the game. So, if developers think about making game a bit difficult as FM 20 way for official release, all good aspects of this perfect ME will have to be dumped because, I believe, it's too difficult to find a balance between good ME and 'difficult game'.

Edited by CM
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Just now, Junkhead said:

Some also sign tonnes of players in the first transfer window and fill their squad with loans that would never happen in real life.

Not all, but some. 

Then we have that disconnect again.

Fair play. The one I’ve been following mostly is Work the Space, which would suggest that (spoiler alert) Man Utd are one Jadon Sancho away from being a side capable of winning all trophies and being 14 points clear with 7 games to go.

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22 minutes ago, SmurfDude said:

There's a guy on Twitch right now about to sign Neymar for Newcastle, after winning the league in the second season, without any cheats/exploits. Is FM21 beta too easy? Yeah, I'd say so

The one who plays with 4-2-4 formation where he uses two complete wingbacks and two box to box midfielders? 

I actually like his streams and he is a super nice bloke (greetings KegMan). But this is also quite good example about the things that really need attention from the developers. 

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23 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Some also sign tonnes of players in the first transfer window and fill their squad with loans that would never happen in real life.

Not all, but some. 

Then we have that disconnect again.

Yeah no offense to those guys but i stopped watching people stream FM last year. Everyone plays the same and everyone was winning because FM20 was easy as well especially if you were playing a high intensity tactic like majority of them did. I guess it's great for content. 

 

But being able to pretty much gut a team without any backlash from board, players and fans while also being able to do so easily is a part of the difficulty problem IMO.

 

Not to mention the lack of team cohesion not being a big of a deal.

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56 minutes ago, Haribo1681 said:

Fair play. The one I’ve been following mostly is Work the Space, which would suggest that (spoiler alert) Man Utd are one Jadon Sancho away from being a side capable of winning all trophies and being 14 points clear with 7 games to go.

Man Utd seem to be OP in all screenshots I’ve seen so far, even the AI

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20 hours ago, harrycarrie said:

We have.

Are you the one that plays 3 forwards?  A known exploit for years?  Ok, don't play 3 forwards and then see how things go for you.  

In all seriousness if you're going to play that tactic you might as well edit all your players to be all 20's while you're at it.

Edited by jase19
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1 minute ago, jase19 said:

Are you the one that plays 3 forwards?  A known exploit for years?  Ok, don't play 3 forwards and then see how things go for you.

I did and won the CL first season. Is the next step of advice to take Altrincham to CL glory in 5 years?

 

How low down the tiers do we go before people are happy that in general its a pretty easy ME?

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Just now, harrycarrie said:

I did and won the CL first season. Is the next step of advice to take Altrincham to CL glory in 5 years?

 

How low down the tiers do we go before people are happy that in general its a pretty easy ME?

Like I said, start over not using a 3 forward formation.  It's a known -exploit- for years.  If you are proud of exploiting the game and complain about it, knowing before you start, then I don't know what to tell you.  

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5 minutes ago, jase19 said:

Like I said, start over not using a 3 forward formation.  It's a known -exploit- for years.  If you are proud of exploiting the game and complain about it, knowing before you start, then I don't know what to tell you.  

If you want to look at exploit tactics, the lat time 3 striker was a 'known exploit' was FM18 - last year it was primarily 1 striker with 2 AMCs, the year before it was 442 :D

 

Nobody is gloating, merely pointing out its pretty broken, There's people out there having strikers score 60-80 goals a season playing them as a loan striker. I've done a couple of seasons with a generic 4123/4231 and battered teams.

 

There's nothing wrong with pointing out its an easy ME in this Beta, relax lad. If you want I'll go play 460 with Chester or something to prove whatever point this is.

 

I do find the whole argument of "well if its too easy go and play the game you bought, but not in the way you want to play it" quite hilarious, when the majority are just saying that its a bit easy at the moment and trying to find ways SI could improve it somewhat. Defence needs improving, attack is fine.

Edited by harrycarrie
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1 minute ago, harrycarrie said:

If you want to look at exploit tactics, the lat time 3 striker was a 'known exploit' was FM18 - last year it was primarily 1 striker with 2 AMCs, the year before it was 442 :D

 

Nobody is gloating, merely pointing out its pretty broken, There's people out there having strikers score 60-80 goals a season playing them as a loan striker. I've done a couple of seasons with a generic 4123/4231 and battered teams.

 

There's nothing wrong with pointing out its an easy ME in this Beta, relax lad. If you want I'll go play 460 with Chester or something to prove whatever point this is.

If it's not an exploit then by all means play an entire season without 3 forwards and let us all know how you do.  

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Just now, jase19 said:

If it's not an exploit then by all means play an entire season without 3 forwards and let us all know how you do.  

Okay, is there a particular team you want me to pick? As I don't want to come back with results only to be told they're too OP or something.

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1 minute ago, harrycarrie said:

Okay, is there a particular team you want me to pick? As I don't want to come back with results only to be told they're too OP or something.

You pick a club in reference to the difficulty you desire.

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1 hour ago, SmurfDude said:

There's a guy on Twitch right now about to sign Neymar for Newcastle, after winning the league in the second season, without any cheats/exploits. Is FM21 beta too easy? Yeah, I'd say so

Leicester City won the PL in 2 years after promoting into the PL, so it could be realistic wouldnt it? And about Neymar thats unrealistic, no way to happen in real life. They have the money, espec. if they would be took over by a sheikh. But SI could make those kind of players not willing to go to those clubs in the beginning when they dont have a big status in the football world. But after a few years they might. Like what happened with Man City, they had the money and started to buy a lot, after a few years and making name for themselfs great players started to join the club much easier. 

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Of course, the AI should be more clinical when you use a 4-3-3 ( 3 ST formation ) or 4-2-4 ( 2 ST 2 AMR/L ) formations. It's too defensive right now.

I am thinking of Aston Villa - Liverpool 7-2 level of thrashing when you use those formations that should really leave your team extremely exposed to counters ( IF the AI were more willing to counter that is )

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Nobody is complaining that it's possible to have great success in the game. I mean in the end that's probably what most people want anyway.

The problem is that you don't need to put any effort into tactic building or scouting or training. You can probably play with the laziest and most unfit players out of position with horribly imbalanced tactic but as long as you have a high risk mentality and a lot of pressing you will overachieve.

Edited by swippy
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11 minutes ago, f.zaarour said:

Leicester City won the PL in 2 years after promoting into the PL, so it could be realistic wouldnt it? And about Neymar thats unrealistic, no way to happen in real life. They have the money, espec. if they would be took over by a sheikh. But SI could make those kind of players not willing to go to those clubs in the beginning when they dont have a big status in the football world. But after a few years they might. Like what happened with Man City, they had the money and started to buy a lot, after a few years and making name for themselfs great players started to join the club much easier. 

Difference is, it's a story because it's special.

In Fm it's common place, which also removes the enjoyment of the game. Finished 3rd with Brighton, won the cup in the first season. Won prem and cl season after. No it's not as enjoyable as before when it was harder

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1 hour ago, Broken_Record said:

The one who plays with 4-2-4 formation where he uses two complete wingbacks and two box to box midfielders? 

I actually like his streams and he is a super nice bloke (greetings KegMan). But this is also quite good example about the things that really need attention from the developers. 

That be me ;-)

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13 minutes ago, andu1 said:

Of course, the AI should be more clinical when you use a 4-3-3 ( 3 ST formation ) or 4-2-4 ( 2 ST 2 AMR/L ) formations. It's too defensive right now.

I am thinking of Aston Villa - Liverpool 7-2 level of thrashing when you use those formations that should really leave your team extremely exposed to counters ( IF the AI were more willing to counter that is )

It's ridiculous that a respond during a beta is to just ignore it and not use it.

 

No wonder it's been an exploit for year's smh.

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Quickly created Newcastle 442 fully holidayed season. I didn't touch transfers nor any staff brought in, but assistant bought Buendia in Jan after a consortium took over. Only Wilson and Almiron were kept in as 'use current team selection when possible' as Carroll/Joelinton are gash. We scored 128 in the league, conceded 66.

 

Terrible start as the team got used to it. Had a good run of form, then started dropping points away towards the end. Happy to show match stats and formation of any match, every single one was 442. League prediction was 17th.

 

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Edited by harrycarrie
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Now I'm gonna go back to my regular save, sorry for any posts in here that came across as bragging earlier, if they did. Was merely pointing out that the defensive side of the engine currently is weak against pace and overloads.

Edited by harrycarrie
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I think it is too simplistic to say whether you want the game harder or easy. 

I think the key is that the AI needs improving. There are significant faults in it, which I am sure SI are trying to correct. The biggest one I come across is that they are awful at squad building, start off as a Championship/L1 and with moderate ability and squad building ability you will always end up domanting England after 10 years. Due to the AI's ability to be unable to build a squad they then never challenge you. In the past 2/3 years of FM once I have reached the top I have never been knocked off my perch. I am a bang average Football Manager player, always have been and always will be. 

The other area I have found the AI to be inept is in countering your tactics. You watch any top level game in detail and you will see the top sides changing system, altering instructions throughout to counter each other, but the AI never seems to do that. I can't remember the last time I had to try and counter something the AI changed mid game. 

Games like this are always going to be hard to fail in, because you have time to understand the mechanics of the game so you are unlikely to fail, but it needs to have some consequences if you do. 

I have had years off forums, and I didn't even know there where tactics that could break the system anymore, it seems a fundamental flaw that seems to exist still in this day and age. 

I do provide myself with challenges within the game automatically, i.e no preset tactics, can't sign players you know are great from previous saves etc.. We are always going to have to do that though as in real life you can't go back to the beginning when you want a fresh challenge knowing that Rayan Cherki 9/10 becomes a wonderkid.

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Gerade eben schrieb harrycarrie:

Yes. As much as I'd love to spend 15 hours doing a full save myself as Newcastle boss to appease a random on the forum, it wasn't in my plans to do so :D

you could add yourself as manager to newcastle and then go on holiday for a year. If you still overperform compared to the AI vs AI-save then it's worth upload both save to the bug-forum

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Care to share the statistics from both wins over man city? And the 4-2 over Chelsea?   Let me know if you ever play the bottom of the league club in Spain.  

I'm in my 3rd year of my game and Newcastle have finished 8, 5, currently 4th.  Not saying, just saying.

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1 minute ago, Daveincid said:

you could add yourself as manager to newcastle and then go on holiday for a year. If you still overperform compared to the AI vs AI-save then it's worth upload both save to the bug-forum

That's what I did, with the tactic above. Just line up choice bar the strikers, training, press conferences etc was all down to my assistant.

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1 minute ago, jase19 said:

Care to share the statistics from both wins over man city? And the 4-2 over Chelsea?   Let me know if you ever play the bottom of the league club in Spain.  

I'm in my 3rd year of my game and Newcastle have finished 8, 5, currently 4th.  Not saying, just saying.

Only one win over City, three losses, two of them heavy. Chelsea game it doesnt have the match stats for, City win:

 

a604c52243af50b8e1b8870ddd54f3cf.png

 

5-1 v United, and 5-4 loss to City for some reason here ya go. I'll do Huesca now, I'm not really getting what your issue is but fair enough. I'll use the same formation.

 

726a132b8a36086769dbfff9fc83210f.png

 

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