Do you want the full release to be harder than the beta?

[harrycarrie]

Just now, Daveincid said:

I mean the league table, you said you holidayed a whole season

Its in my post mate, 4th but predicted 17th. This is a wrong test though or something.

[Nahuelzn]

Check the AI Bug forum, there are like three or four threads just in the first page with unrealistic results.

Check twitch, twitter, youtube or reddit. Everyone is getting big results. No matter the league, no matter the team. In fact, those who are underperforming are the exception, not the rule!

This isn't an issue with FM as a game and the perceived level of difficulty. This isn't people bragging. FM21, in the beta at least, it's clearly having some kind of issue somewhere (may be the ME, may be the AI, I don't know) that makes that humans overperform by a mile in this version compared to FM20.

It's not a feature... It's a bug!

[KloppRodgersHodgson]

5 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

and what's the result of it?

Almiron and Wilson got 80 league goals between them. Shocking.

[IrrelevantLion]

Wow give people a chance to brag - pages and pages of it! 

[harrycarrie]

Huesca time, set my manager badges to whatever was recommended (Continental licence, Pro Footballer). Rep is 1 and a half star, same formation. Full holiday, no changes to training, staff, all up to the assistant. Will I have to edit a non-league side into the prem after this?

 

Season preview:

 

[harrycarrie]

3 minutes ago, IrrelevantLion said:

Wow give people a chance to brag - pages and pages of it! 

I've been asked to do this. Would happily be doing my Betis save right now and not be on here. A test is a test though

Edited November 18, 2020 by harrycarrie

[Daveincid]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb harrycarrie:

Its in my post mate, 4th but predicted 17th. This is a wrong test though or something.

sorry I haven't seen it. League Position is not that strange IMO. But the goals scored really seems too high. If you would smash the league with ease, then I would understand some comments in here much better.

[KloppRodgersHodgson]

1 minute ago, IrrelevantLion said:

Wow give people a chance to brag - pages and pages of it! 

How is it bragging saying that he didn't do anything himself to earn it, other than throw in a quick tactic and then go on holiday for the season?

Are you not all there or something? He is not bragging. He is not saying he's done something amazing to break the game by being good. He, along with a lot of others, are saying them game is way too easy this year. A lot of us are saying the game has been way too easy for a number of years now.

"But, but, but, don't play as a decent team" --> it's too easy at every level!

If you don't find the game easy, get over the fact that a lot of us are finding it easy. Go to another forum to compare some of your sackings.

[harrycarrie]

First game of the season as an idea, holidaying now, be back in about half hour lads!

 

[CM]

Currently top of the league with Watford in my first season in PL lol. If developers are going to fix this, hope the game does not become kind of scripted like FM 20. Do not want to play free kick and corner kick contest again.

Edited November 18, 2020 by CM

[KloppRodgersHodgson]

3 minutes ago, harrycarrie said:

Huesca time, set my manager badges to whatever was recommended (Continental licence, Pro Footballer). Rep is 1 and a half star, same formation. Full holiday, no changes to training, staff, all up to the assistant. Will I have to edit a non-league side into the prem after this?

 

Season preview:

 

It wouldn't matter to the knuckleheads whatever you did

 

[harrycarrie]

Just now, KloppRodgersHodgson said:

It wouldn't matter to the knuckleheads whatever you did

 

I'm just playing it wrong mate!

[SazoJohnno]

Be nice lads and cut down the name calling. 

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Minute schrieb harrycarrie:

First game of the season as an idea, holidaying now, be back in about half hour lads!

 

Can you change your tactic to something else than Gegenpress and run the test?

[harrycarrie]

1 minute ago, Daveincid said:

Can you change your tactic to something else than Gegenpress and run the test?

Mate I'm sorry but I'm not spending my entire evening running tests left right and centre. I'm 2 months into this one almost already

[Daveincid]

Gerade eben schrieb harrycarrie:

Mate I'm sorry but I'm not spending my entire evening running tests left right and centre. I'm 2 months into this one almost already

Will do one on my own. Also with Huesca

[harrycarrie]

So far

 

 

Sandro has 7 in 5.

[Pattric_b]

1 hour ago, harrycarrie said:

Quickly created Newcastle 442 fully holidayed season. I didn't touch transfers nor any staff brought in, but assistant bought Buendia in Jan after a consortium took over. Only Wilson and Almiron were kept in as 'use current team selection when possible' as Carroll/Joelinton are gash. We scored 128 in the league, conceded 66.

 

Terrible start as the team got used to it. Had a good run of form, then started dropping points away towards the end. Happy to show match stats and formation of any match, every single one was 442. League prediction was 17th.

 

 

The results are impressive, but honestly all this proves to me is that you know how to exploit the match engine. The 442 tactic resembles one I've seen knap make in the past and this isn't exactly my idea of what a well-balanced tactic looks like. I have no problem if you want to make tactics like this and play the game how you want, but don't come onto the forums and say the game is too easy because you figured out a way to exploit the match engine.  I don't understand what point you're trying to make. 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Pattric_b

[harrycarrie]

Its literally two attacking wingers, a defence and support mid, two strikers and a regular defence. There's nothing insane in the instructions. Maybe 'Force opposition outside'?  What else am I supposed to do? Run a completely blank 442 with nothing on it, which literally anyone can do?

Edited November 18, 2020 by harrycarrie

[KloppRodgersHodgson]

10 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

Can you change your tactic to something else than Gegenpress and run the test?

High pressing is a perfectly valid tactic that most elite teams use now.

Is he allowed to use a keeper?

[jase19]

I should also say, that for whatever reason, and I've never been able to figure this out... when I do not manage the club for friendlies, we win 5-0, 7-1, 4-0, etc...

Then when I take over... 1-1, 1-2, 2-1, 1-3, 3-2

So yeah... Basically what I'm saying is I thought this whole thing was about YOU actually PLAYING the game without using 3 forwards... 

 

There are more loopholes in this than politics.  I'll be moving on.

Edited November 18, 2020 by jase19

[Broken_Record]

17 minutes ago, harrycarrie said:

First game of the season as an idea, holidaying now, be back in about half hour lads!

 

This could be a save game that you could actually upload to the bugs forum. This of course, if the results continue like this. 

I would be happy to test and provide a save game but sadly so stuck with work during the week that don't have time to play the game. 

But anyway: providing save games could be important as it allows SI to investigate and also probably see what many of us are talking about. 

[SazoJohnno]

Just now, jase19 said:

I should also say, that for whatever reason, and I've never been able to figure this out... when I do not manage the club for friendlies, we win 5-0, 7-1, 4-0, etc...

Then when I take over... 1-1, 1-2, 2-1, 1-3, 3-2

So yeah... Basically what I'm saying is I thought this whole thing was about YOU actually PLAYING the game without using 3 forwards... 

 

There are more loopholes in this than politics.

Is that you Moyes?

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Minute schrieb KloppRodgersHodgson:

High pressing is a perfectly valid tactic that most elite teams use now.

Is he allowed to use a keeper?

And thats exactly the missleading point. Is huesca a elite team? would a bottom team in laliga in reality use a high offensive pressing tactic vs elite teams? Nope, they would play more defensive counter football or even cattenacio. Leicester suprized everybody with that IRL too. A human manager can ignore this. I am currently running the test with huesca with the system they have used most this season.  The AI don't expect from huesca to play with a tactic for elite teams, so that's why human managers can be better vs these teams. These are my 2 cents so far

[Dagenham_Dave]

@harrycarrie, why are you posting this here, and not in the bugs forum, with actual uploaded files for the devs to look into? 

 

[Pattric_b]

8 minutes ago, harrycarrie said:

Its literally two attacking wingers, a defence and support mid, two strikers and a regular defence. There's nothing insane in the instructions. Maybe 'Force opposition outside'?  What else am I supposed to do? Run a completely blank 442 with nothing on it, which literally anyone can do?

Yes I can see what positions you used, thanks. It’s a tactic I’d expect to find on the tactic sharing forum which I can already see you spend some time on. But again I don’t care how people play the game and what tactics they use just don’t use a clear exploit tactic and then say the game is easy...

[harrycarrie]

Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

@harrycarrie, why are you posting this here, and not in the bugs forum, with actual uploaded files for the devs to look into? 

 

Because a ser went off and told me to pick a team, I did and it wasn't the right team, then told me to do Huesca, which I am. Going forward I'll be happy to provide files, I just want this test done with so I can crack on with my evening mate

[Defensive]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb harrycarrie:

Its literally two attacking wingers, a defence and support mid, two strikers and a regular defence. There's nothing insane in the instructions. Maybe 'Force opposition outside'?  What else am I supposed to do? Run a completely blank 442 with nothing on it, which literally anyone can do?

Are you serious. You play Gegenpress, Attacking, Pass into Space, Run at Defence, Overlap Left, Overlap Right, Higher defensive line, Extremely Urgent, Offside Trap...i could go on.

 

You use an exploit which means nothing for anyone else because no one would play like that.

[harrycarrie]

Just now, Pattric_b said:

Yes I can see what positions you used, thanks. It’s a tactic I’d expect to find on the tactic sharing forum which I can already see you spend some time on. But again I don’t care how people play the game and what tactics they use just don’t use a clear exploit tactic and then say the game is easy...

Its not a Knap tactic mate! And yes I posted on FMBase, FMScout's Discord and plenty of other FM sites, I've been playing since CM01/02. Its a long held passion, was on TheDugout when it opened etc.

[IrrelevantLion]

22 minutes ago, KloppRodgersHodgson said:

It wouldn't matter to the knuckleheads whatever you did

 

I most definitely think this is mostly bragging now because of this comment  

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, Defensive said:

Are you serious. You play Gegenpress, Attacking, Pass into Space, Run at Defence, Overlap Left, Overlap Right, Higher defensive line, Extremely Urgent, Offside Trap...i could go on.

 

You use an exploit which means nothing for anyone else because no one would play like that.

This is why it's better in the bugs forum. That big an exploit needs to be patched, ideally before release. 

[harrycarrie]

Alright then lads point taken, the game is near perfect, sorry about all this. Here's Huesca on the 3rd of Jan. I'll leave yas all to it.

 

And here's Sandro playing as an AF on attack, nothing fancy or exploiting. A 442!

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by harrycarrie

[SazoJohnno]

Okay, this is going to get ugly. 

Post in the bug section of this forum if you genuinely think FM is somewhat easy or some kind of tactic is an exploit. There's absolutely no need for the sarcasm, name calling or the passive aggressive comments here at all whatsoever. We all play Football Manager, the very same game that brought us here, to develop the lovely community. Be nice. 

[Daveincid]

I used the tactics which they use IRL most this season. With the recommendation of the staff.

 

Progress so far

[iownyou]

1 hour ago, harrycarrie said:

Quickly created Newcastle 442 fully holidayed season. I didn't touch transfers nor any staff brought in, but assistant bought Buendia in Jan after a consortium took over. Only Wilson and Almiron were kept in as 'use current team selection when possible' as Carroll/Joelinton are gash. We scored 128 in the league, conceded 66.

 

Terrible start as the team got used to it. Had a good run of form, then started dropping points away towards the end. Happy to show match stats and formation of any match, every single one was 442. League prediction was 17th.

 

 

All the proof I need.

More people need to post like this. 

I mean that’s just stupid, Freaking Almiron scoring 40+ goals. That is about all the proof you need that the game might be broken. 
 

Even, even,  if it’s an exploit tactic (which I don’t think it is, ive seen way more stupid nonsensical tactics bring success) 
Almiron should not be scoring 40 goals. The games gone.. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

21 minutes ago, KloppRodgersHodgson said:

High pressing is a perfectly valid tactic that most elite teams use now.

Is he allowed to use a keeper?

You have to use a center back as a keeper otherwise you are exploiting the game!

[Daveincid]

Well....

[RioImmagina]

13 minuti fa, Daveincid ha scritto:

And thats exactly the missleading point. Is huesca a elite team? would a bottom team in laliga in reality use a high offensive pressing tactic vs elite teams? Nope, they would play more defensive counter football or even cattenacio. Leicester suprized everybody with that IRL too. A human manager can ignore this. I am currently running the test with huesca with the system they have used most this season.  The AI don't expect from huesca to play with a tactic for elite teams, so that's why human managers can be better vs these teams. These are my 2 cents so far

No, i'm Sorry but you are wrong. We're not talking about a strange set up (like, idk, 5 defenders and 5 strikers). We are talking about 442, a standard tactic. This Is clearly a bug, It,'s impossible that ai can't understand a 442

[RioImmagina]

32 minuti fa, harrycarrie ha scritto:

So far

 

 

Sandro has 7 in 5.

Please, post It in bug forum

[dannysheard]

3 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

You have to use a center back as a keeper otherwise you are exploiting the game!

You use centre backs?!?!

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Minute schrieb RioImmagina:

No, i'm Sorry but you are wrong. We're not talking about a strange set up (like, idk, 5 defenders and 5 strikers). We are talking about 442, a standard tactic. This Is clearly a bug, It,'s impossible that ai can't understand a 442

normal tactic? newcastle with 4 players on attacking duty with a offensive mentality? vs all the top teams? Everybody has its opinions.

[harrycarrie]

2 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

normal tactic? newcastle with 4 players on attacking duty with a offensive mentality? vs all the top teams? Everybody has its opinions.

I was holidaying the save. I cannot switch up between games as I've already given 3 hours of my evening to this utter nonsense to begin with.

 

Please be welcome to any or all opinions, its a game at the end of the day. Just a quite easy game for anyone who is even slightly adept at it.

 

I was asked for myself to see how I did with a team. I did with Newcastle, this wasn't good enough. Then I was told to with Huesca. Again, this wasn't good enough.

 

There was no stipulation about researching the team to see what formations they play in what matches. I was told I was essentially cheating by using three strikers, and if I didn't do that I'd be found out or something. I played an attacking 442 and Almiron got 40+ fecking goals. Sandro got 22(!) in 16.

 

Again this is my fault apparently. I have no idea what the past 3 hours has been about, but its been emotional gents.

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by harrycarrie

[RioImmagina]

4 minuti fa, Daveincid ha scritto:

Well....

This Is absurd! Teams are locked to have a good or bad tactic in order to achive good or bad results?

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Minute schrieb harrycarrie:

I was holidaying the save. I cannot switch up between games as I've already given 3 hours of my evening to this utter nonsense to begin with.

 

Please be welcome to any or all opinions, its a game at the end of the day. Just a quite easy game for anyone who is even slightly adept at it.

True story. I just don't share the majority in this thread, but that's legit

[dominoes012]

13 minutes ago, Defensive said:

Are you serious. You play Gegenpress, Attacking, Pass into Space, Run at Defence, Overlap Left, Overlap Right, Higher defensive line, Extremely Urgent, Offside Trap...i could go on.

 

You use an exploit which means nothing for anyone else because no one would play like that.

No one plays like this in real life as a lower tier team because to play like this you need world class players with great technicals. If you see Newcastle playing against Man City like this in real life they would get run over because Man city simply has superior players with better ability. This should be the case in Football manager since it is trying to simulate a real football game. Due to the lack of defense or overpowered offense that is currently in the match engine you can play these tactics with any team and succeed which is the entire point of this game being overtuned and "easy". People seem to misunderstand what an exploit is as evidenced by the comment above. An exploit would be if my strikers were teleporting around during the match or if the opponents could not tackle my players. He is simply using very basic tactics that have shown to work which are in the game and can be used as such. The fact that they perform well in comparison to other instructions or tactics does not mean it's an exploit rather that it is simply overtuned/strong whatever other adjective you want to use. 

[TheVerySpecialOne]

24 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

And thats exactly the missleading point. Is huesca a elite team? would a bottom team in laliga in reality use a high offensive pressing tactic vs elite teams? Nope, they would play more defensive counter football or even cattenacio. Leicester suprized everybody with that IRL too. A human manager can ignore this. I am currently running the test with huesca with the system they have used most this season.  The AI don't expect from huesca to play with a tactic for elite teams, so that's why human managers can be better vs these teams. These are my 2 cents so far

They wouldn't use it because they'd have less chance getting the result and strong sides would take advantage of that. You have Leeds on the other side, team that plays high press offensive style even against bigger teams. This should be fixed, we should have the freedom to use the tactic that we want, not thinking which one doesn't exploit the system.

[Mars_Blackmon]

25 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

And thats exactly the missleading point. Is huesca a elite team? would a bottom team in laliga in reality use a high offensive pressing tactic vs elite teams? Nope, they would play more defensive counter football or even cattenacio. Leicester suprized everybody with that IRL too. A human manager can ignore this. I am currently running the test with huesca with the system they have used most this season.  The AI don't expect from huesca to play with a tactic for elite teams, so that's why human managers can be better vs these teams. These are my 2 cents so far

The condition drain on high intensity tactics using less than quality players should take care of this on it's own though. There have been reports that it's not the case. This should be looked at.

[RioImmagina]

4 minuti fa, Daveincid ha scritto:

normal tactic? newcastle with 4 players on attacking duty with a offensive mentality? vs all the top teams? Everybody has its opinions.

So if Newcastle chairman will get an offensive manager (klopp, favre) they could go in CL? 

[Daveincid]

Gerade eben schrieb RioImmagina:

This Is absurd! Teams are locked to have a good or bad tactic in order to achive good or bad results?

It is kinda absurd, bercause it's a simulation and not real life. The game is programmed to be as realistic as possible, so my guess is, that the developer analyzed the behavior of weaker teams IRL and tried to copy that in FM. 

[dominoes012]

5 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

normal tactic? newcastle with 4 players on attacking duty with a offensive mentality? vs all the top teams? Everybody has its opinions.

Is your idea of playing football manager just to have every single team play the exact same tactics they do in real life. The reason why Marcelo Bielsa is hailed as a genius or extremely smart in tactics and football in general is because he takes the players he has applies his philosophy and plays his style of football. Football manager is there because it allows you to play whatever brand of football you want. However the problem is the match engine currently does not punish you for playing extremely offensive even with lower tier players. That is the problem as it is too "easy" to play so are we misunderstanding each other or?