Matches getting ridiculous and unbearable

[blejdek]

This is getting ridiculous and this is not like 1 match in 10, 20, 30, this is like every 1,5 match, i love the game, but hundreds of matches where this happens is really making me hard to open the game last few weeks...

[HUNT3R]

12 minutes ago, blejdek said:

this is like every 1,5 match

Then you can do something about it that can move you forward to getting out of this. Ranting on a forum may let off some steam, but every 1.5th match later, you'll be back to being frustrated. Either analyse your matches or add more to the thread you have in the tactics forum... or ideally both.

[blejdek]

9 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Then you can do something about it that can move you forward to getting out of this. Ranting on a forum may let off some steam, but every 1.5th match later, you'll be back to being frustrated. Either analyse your matches or add more to the thread you have in the tactics forum... or ideally both.

I dont f think there could be something rly wrong with the tactic, when you have 20 shots on target and the opponents goalkeeper is like ****ing best goalkeeper of the universe and then they even give the most stupid goal, like I had no defenders or they were just god damn dummies, ofcourse i'm ranting, because occasions like this are happening an unreal number of times

[HUNT3R]

24 minutes ago, blejdek said:

I dont f think there could be something rly wrong with the tactic, when you have 20 shots on target and the opponents goalkeeper is like ****ing best goalkeeper of the universe and then they even give the most stupid goal, like I had no defenders or they were just god damn dummies, ofcourse i'm ranting, because occasions like this are happening an unreal number of times

No one said it WAS the tactic, but it may well be. It could be the players selected. It could be both. If it's happening THAT often, there's something that can be fixed. In the match you posted, you took the lead. What did you do to protect it? Because they would have changed tactic completely, losing that late in the game. You had a chance to win it! In match decisions can play a big part. I've had a couple of matches where we came back to win after being a goal down. I've also had the odd match where we lost or drew level with a late equaliser. But, you learn from it and hopefully it doesn't happen again.

 

In my last two matches against defensive opposition, the stats looked like this:

They lined up in a defensive 4231.

They lined up in a defensive 442.

 

Both dominant. Both smashed. I'm not trying to gloat - just to show it's possible to beat these teams. I didn't have them in my first season, but now (in my second) I am getting them here and there. I know my tactic and players a lot better though and it's taken more than a few tweaks to set it up in a way that I'm happy with. I know what to do against teams better than me and I know what to do against teams worse than me. I know which players can be relied on to keep their cool in these.

Maybe try do the same? I often, even against these teams, look at the likely line-up and who is going to match up with who. I compare my AML vs their DR. My AMR vs their DL. My ST vs their defence. Try to see if there's a weakness where you have a strength.

Maybe their fullback has poor tackling and you have someone very good at dribbling. Once he gets past the fullback, that draws a DC or someone to pull away to your player - that opens up a but of a gap for a striker or someone. Just an example.

In one match, I noticed their D-line is extremely deep when one of my players is in a crossing position. I subbed my 'normal' CM/A with someone who had good Heading ability. With the CM/A joining the attacking players a little later, he found some space on the penalty spot, unmarked in front of the D-line and scored the winning goal.

Little things like that can win you matches - it's not just "it's your tactics" or even your starting tactic. Sometimes little adjustments can help, whether it's a change to the tactic or to personnel.

[Svenc]

Bets on 

- total set piece festivals of Matches with limited shots from open play
- knap/totalfootballfan kind of tactics (yo buddies everybody move fwd 24/7)
- "this" not happening actually every 1.5th match

 

Or all the three of them. Anyone accepted?  

Edited July 17, 2020 by Svenc

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Bets on 

- total set piece festivals of Matches with limited shots from open play
- knap/totalfootballfan kind of tactics (yo buddies everybody move fwd 24/7)
- "this" not happening actually every 1.5th match

 

Or all the three of them. Anyone accepted?  

Can you post your tactic? 

[blejdek]

Another one, when I was really better, watched the match on comprehensive time and won just 1-0. Here I will add my tactic, which worked more than fine, but goalkeeper of watford was again ****ing divine, which is just a joke, like every match.

[Spanner]

33 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Bets on 

- total set piece festivals of Matches with limited shots from open play
- knap/totalfootballfan kind of tactics (yo buddies everybody move fwd 24/7)
- "this" not happening actually every 1.5th match

 

Or all the three of them. Anyone accepted?  

i know your full-back because he played in my Holland team....i gave him his 1st cap.

If he is your best player then you have to ask yourself...what went wrong!?

If this is a long term problem or regular problem then its you, your tactics or team selection.

i really hope you fix it.......As i have previously said, in-game tactical decisions can make a big affect on the result. You had the lead, can you tell us what happened next? and what did you give as TIs ?

[Travis Bickle]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

Then you can do something about it that can move you forward to getting out of this. Ranting on a forum may let off some steam, but every 1.5th match later, you'll be back to being frustrated. Either analyse your matches or add more to the thread you have in the tactics forum... or ideally both.

What happens when you only lose games because of set pieces? 

[Dagenham_Dave]

35 minutes ago, blejdek said:

Another one, when I was really better, watched the match on comprehensive time and won just 1-0. Here I will add my tactic, which worked more than fine, but goalkeeper of watford was again ****ing divine, which is just a joke, like every match.

Quality, not quantity is the balance you're looking for.  Use the analysis tools, read the opposition scout reports before a game, etc. If you're a top side playing against a team who will play defensively, you need to work out how to create better chances, not just peppering the goal with long shots and the odd half chance. It's a stellar team you've assembled there, with a bit of thought (and maybe asking in the tactics forum), you'll work it out. 

[Svenc]

2 hours ago, Cadoni said:

Can you post your tactic? 

I don't do a super/"tactic". If I posted one you wouldn't be satisfied with its overall results. The "everybody go forward" remark is about that sometimes, despite generally great results, you put garbage into the game, and it spits garbage out. 

This one doesn't look that bad. However, the 4-2-3-1 is top heavy. The four most advanced Players advance deep into enemy territory by default. Ideally both of the central guys will act as pivots staying deeperish. That will also stretch the opposition in Terms of Depth and force them to engage/push up again when the ball moves to these guys.

What also Needs watching is if you're playing with two inside Forward type of Players, they may cut into the same space as the AMC, even advanced playmaker. The smaller that space the opposition has to cover is, the easier it is to defend the move. All of this combined makes it easier for a Team sitting narrow and Deep to get a foot into the move, voila, a set piece Festival goes off. I agree though that it's too easy to get shots on target (has been for some while) that aren'T converted that oftenly into goals -- in particular from that set piece imo. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Svenc

[blejdek]

12 hours ago, Svenc said:

I don't do a super/"tactic". If I posted one you wouldn't be satisfied with its overall results. The "everybody go forward" remark is about that sometimes, despite generally great results, you put garbage into the game, and it spits garbage out. 

This one doesn't look that bad. However, the 4-2-3-1 is top heavy. The four most advanced Players advance deep into enemy territory by default. Ideally both of the central guys will act as pivots staying deeperish. That will also stretch the opposition in Terms of Depth and force them to engage/push up again when the ball moves to these guys.

What also Needs watching is if you're playing with two inside Forward type of Players, they may cut into the same space as the AMC, even advanced playmaker. The smaller that space the opposition has to cover is, the easier it is to defend the move. All of this combined makes it easier for a Team sitting narrow and Deep to get a foot into the move, voila, a set piece Festival goes off. I agree though that it's too easy to get shots on target (has been for some while) that aren'T converted that oftenly into goals -- in particular from that set piece imo. 

I was very careful when i make the tactic. All 8 preseason matches i watched in full, so i was sure the players dont engage the same space on the playground. Everyone knew what his positiong and job is and that is reason why am i so frustrated, 2 matches in row now, against spurs and watford almost same picture. A lot of good shots (on target) and a really good play from my players but the opponents gk+basically every player just goes like he is the best in his position in like universe, i even tried some minor changes (dont want to drastically changing in matches + the players played really really good as mentioned before) with 0 to none effect. 

[yolixeya]

18 minutes ago, blejdek said:

I was very careful when i make the tactic. All 8 preseason matches i watched in full, so i was sure the players dont engage the same space on the playground. Everyone knew what his positiong and job is and that is reason why am i so frustrated, 2 matches in row now, against spurs and watford almost same picture. A lot of good shots (on target) and a really good play from my players but the opponents gk+basically every player just goes like he is the best in his position in like universe, i even tried some minor changes (dont want to drastically changing in matches + the players played really really good as mentioned before) with 0 to none effect. 

I would not play 2 playmakers so close to each other but nevertheless at least I would have them to switch places because your left side is compromised defenively because you have WB(a) on that side so it makes more sense to have DLP(d) on that side. I would also remove pass into space especially when you play these sides that defend deep. That is one of the reasons you have trouble breaking them. You tell them to pass into space and opposition defends deep and denies you that space.Your players can only pass into space in your own half and in middle third and you will not benefit much from it.

[Svenc]

25 minutes ago, blejdek said:

 A lot of good shots (on target) and a really good play from my Players 

Can you upload that match from the first post?

[blejdek]

2 hours ago, Svenc said:

Can you upload that match from the first post?

Whole match upload? Is it possible to do somehow ?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, blejdek said:

Whole match upload? Is it possible to do somehow ?

Yes.

- Schedule
- Click on match

- Click "View Match"

- Save Match (see below)

Then go to:

Documents > Sports Interactive > Football Manager 2020 > matches

- Upload it here via:

I am not sure why you are gonna upload a PKM file for a guy - to see what? Nevermind.

[Svenc]

1 hour ago, Cadoni said:

 

I am not sure why you are gonna upload a PKM file for a guy - to see what? Nevermind.

Good write-up, thanks. To see the shot analysis, naturally and whether my theory (a huge amount of set piece shots, pressured headers etc.) holds true. This takes a lot of time, more than it should. But if I'm correct, he can still at least do something about it, probably. 

Alternatively, he could check this for himself, naturally.

In HUNT3ER's first match, despite taking over 30 shots, his Team had no more than 6 Corners. That's a fantastic number, and not seldom a sign that his Team actually created space -- from Play rather than runningn into a set piece over and over and over.

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by Svenc

[blejdek]

26 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Good write-up, thanks. To see the shot analysis, naturally and whether my theory (a huge amount of set piece shots, pressured headers etc.) holds true. This takes a lot of time, more than it should. But if I'm correct, he can still at least do something about it, probably. 

Alternatively, he could check this for himself, naturally.

In HUNT3ER's first match, despite taking over 30 shots, his Team had no more than 6 Corners. That's a fantastic number, and not seldom a sign that his Team actually created space -- from Play rather than runningn into a set piece over and over and over.

 

Here it is, first match that you want to see. 

Leeds v Tottenham.pkm

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Good write-up, thanks. To see the shot analysis, naturally and whether my theory (a huge amount of set piece shots, pressured headers etc.) holds true. This takes a lot of time, more than it should. But if I'm correct, he can still at least do something about it, probably. 

Alternatively, he could check this for himself, naturally.

In HUNT3ER's first match, despite taking over 30 shots, his Team had no more than 6 Corners. That's a fantastic number, and not seldom a sign that his Team actually created space -- from Play rather than runningn into a set piece over and over and over.

 

I had similar results, 30+ shots / 15+ on target won 6-0; goals from open play - no SPs with P&P tactic.

[GoldenGoal]

I actually gave up on strikers on this version. My IF, wingers and midfielders have been scoring a lot more with harder chances/angles and lower attributes. It's been so silly that I've only conceded 10 goals in 29 matches because the AI strikers suck as well.

The long shots on this version are particularly absurd, I've scored so many of them and my players have long shots stats below 10.

I have a striker on my formation but honestly whomever plays there seems useless, does nothing all day to unmark himself and when he has a chance he shoots straight at the GK. At least he draws defenders to him. At this point i just concentrate on the other players and imagine there's nobody at that position.

 

22 horas atrás, Svenc disse:

Bets on 

- total set piece festivals of Matches with limited shots from open play
- knap/totalfootballfan kind of tactics (yo buddies everybody move fwd 24/7)
- "this" not happening actually every 1.5th match

 

Or all the three of them. Anyone accepted?  

 

19 horas atrás, Svenc disse:

I don't do a super/"tactic". If I posted one you wouldn't be satisfied with its overall results. The "everybody go forward" remark is about that sometimes, despite generally great results, you put garbage into the game, and it spits garbage out. 

Then maybe you should assume less and listen more like HUNTER. Every one of these threads you arrive and berate the player for having a "super offensive exploit tactic" even though they haven't yet posted theirs or if they are wrong for trying attacking play.

There are many ways to set up tactics so maybe you shouldn't berate others for not playing the way you want.

[Zemahh]

1 hour ago, GoldenGoal said:

There are many ways to set up tactics so maybe you shouldn't berate others for not playing the way you want.

He isn't "berating" anyone, is he now? Just as you're assuming "strikers are broken" because YOU can't make them work, he can assume the reason someone's seeing 30 shots and no goals is that his chance creation is very inefficient. I understand figuring out what's going wrong requires more effort than throwing a fit, but the "game is broken" narrative on this forum is getting ridiculous.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Zemahh

[GoldenGoal]

1 hora atrás, Zemahh disse:

He isn't "berating" anyone, is he now? Just as you're assuming "strikers are broken" because YOU can't make them work, he can assume the reason someone's seeing 30 shots and no goals is that his chance creation is very inefficient. I understand figuring out what's going wrong requires more effort than throwing a fit, but the "game is broken" narrative on this forum is getting ridiculous.

It's not just me that can't make strikers work, the AI seems to have ridiculous issues with it as well.

Of all the 10 goals scored against me in 29 games, only 2 were scored by strikers. 

But I guess it's my fault playing "super defensive exploit tactics" lol cause we all know the game is perfect.

Edited July 18, 2020 by GoldenGoal

[HUNT3R]

10 minutes ago, GoldenGoal said:

It's not just me that can't make strikers work, the AI seems to have ridiculous issues with it as well.

Of all the 10 goals scored against me in 29 games, only 2 were scored by strikers. 

My striker has 10 goals in 15(7) appearances. He's only 18 as well.

His backup is only 20 and he has 5 in 17(6), which isn't great but he needs time. He came with only 12 for Finishing, for instance.

My 18 has been insane. Rounding keepers, banana shots etc. And he has played at ST, not AML or AMR. 

[GoldenGoal]

26 minutos atrás, HUNT3R disse:

My striker has 10 goals in 15(7) appearances. He's only 18 as well.

His backup is only 20 and he has 5 in 17(6), which isn't great but he needs time. He came with only 12 for Finishing, for instance.

My 18 has been insane. Rounding keepers, banana shots etc. And he has played at ST, not AML or AMR. 

I think 15(7)/10 is just ok. My IF has 25(3)/13 and another midfielder 20(4)/8.

[Svenc]

4 hours ago, blejdek said:

Here it is, first match that you want to see. 

Leeds v Tottenham.pkm 266.84 kB · 2 downloads

Yeah, there weren't that overly many set piece attempts in there, inside the box 5 if I counted correctly. There were quite a few headers, in General, mostly not that hard to save from my end in isolation, overall. So I stand corrected. Prior matches with lots of shots on target but very few Goals were a save bet on this: set pieces galore leading to pressured headers, which the keeper would save over and over.

To me this doesn't look a high scoring game saved by an overly brilliant keeper -- at least most of the stuff he saves he is expected to (not saying that all of them were easy saves, however even the one on one sees the Forward under quite some pressure). However, the amount of shots (on target) is just too damn high. This would be the kind of match worth investigating for instances where shots simply aren't blocked/defended/tackled before they go off. If the numbers would go down then it wouldn't feel as "unfair". Just my opinion, this stuff has happened in the past to an extent IIRC. Too bad it's too late now for a possible report on FM20.

The game should really introduce something aping xG at some Point, so this would be less of a subjective debate.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Svenc

[HUNT3R]

24 minutes ago, GoldenGoal said:

I think 15(7)/10 is just ok. 

Sure, but we're talking 2.5*, 18yo for a team who is supposed to be 6th in the league. I mention the team standing, because that puts the 2.5* into even more perspective. We're leading the league now. Even over PSG and over a Lyon who is still unbeaten. It also includes the CL where we were up against teams much better, so goals weren't as easy to get. I'm not trying to make him the focal point at all. The kid is just 18. EDIT: And he can't speak the language yet either.

 

The goals are spread through the team though with some coming from AML, AMR and ST. The midfield chipping in now and then too. With the goals shared, so it means I'm not relying on any 1 position or even player. There will (hopefully) always a goal from somewhere.

 

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

My striker has 10 goals in 15(7) appearances. He's only 18 as well.

His backup is only 20 and he has 5 in 17(6), which isn't great but he needs time. He came with only 12 for Finishing, for instance.

My 18 has been insane. Rounding keepers, banana shots etc. And he has played at ST, not AML or AMR. 

I can't understand why my main ST don't round the keeper or lob or don't shot with power, dispite having all the necessary PPM. All the necessary attributes for these is 13+. This is getting even worse when he face weaker GK from good ones.

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, Cadoni said:

I can't understand why my main ST don't round the keeper or lob or don't shot with power, dispite having all the necessary PPM. All the necessary attributes for these is 13+. This is getting even worse when he face weaker GK from good ones.

Don't even need the traits. This 18yo ST that I mentioned has "lobs keeper" as a trait and he fully rounded the keeper and walked the ball into the net. Other strikers I've had, half rounded the keeper until they had a clear shot on goal. None of them had the 'round keeper' trait. Not that I'm seeing it often. At a guess, maybe around twice a season?

[Justin Tomlinson]

On 17/07/2020 at 21:13, blejdek said:

Another one, when I was really better, watched the match on comprehensive time and won just 1-0. Here I will add my tactic, which worked more than fine, but goalkeeper of watford was again ****ing divine, which is just a joke, like every match.

2 obvious issues for me.

Your keeper is only 2 star and your striker is only 2.5, not playing to his strength and low on morale.

So chances will be wasted and always a chance your keeper will crumble.

[GoldenGoal]

13 minutos atrás, Justin Tomlinson disse:

2 obvious issues for me.

Your keeper is only 2 star and your striker is only 2.5, not playing to his strength and low on morale.

So chances will be wasted and always a chance your keeper will crumble.

Doesn't that work both ways? What if his opponent's GK was lowly rated and had low morale?

Edited July 18, 2020 by GoldenGoal

[jeru]

@Svenc your usual analysis of a set piece fest in prior versions was spot on however in FM2020 It’s a cross and header fest. Circa 80-90% of open play chances in this ME is a header from a cross, if you play a Lone striker who is small and wingers who are not great in the air you end up with stats like the OP. 
 

@herne79 I bet your forwards are good in the air to get those sort of returns. Also you must max out your set piece opportunities because they won’t have scored all those goals in open play.  

[h3nrique_SEP]

I've wrote about this in the general topic some weeks ago, it's harder to score goals in the FM19 and 20, whether by the AI or the player. FM20 is a game that happens few goals than it's previous versions, @blejdek can you post a screenshot of the amount of goals you scored and conceeded in the season? I can bet that even with you playing with a team full of offensively-minded players and using a high press your total amount of goals conceeded it's lower than the numbers of matches played.

Look the amount of goals the teams of big six of PL conceeded this season so far, i bet everyone to post a full Premier League 19-20 season in FM that these teams conceeds more than 30 goals

 

Post

 

May have something to do with this

 

english is not my first language

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by h3nrique_SEP

[goranm]

3 hours ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

Look the amount of goals the teams of big six of PL conceeded this season so far

Current season is a bit of an outlier with City losing and conceding more than expected plus the break due to COVID. In 17/18 and 18/19 the top two teams conceded less than 30 goals (Lpool conceded only 22 in 18/19), followed by teams that conceded approx 35-40. This is pretty much what I'm seeing in PL on full detail in FM20.

Edited July 19, 2020 by goranm

[enigmatic]

Live footage of the OP complaining that it's impossible to repeatedly drop points whilst having more shots and possession than the opponent

 

[Justin Tomlinson]

10 hours ago, GoldenGoal said:

Doesn't that work both ways? What if his opponent's GK was lowly rated and had low morale?

Yes, but I could only see the star ratings for the team seemingly not making the most of chances / possession.

 

[blejdek]

10 hours ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

I've wrote about this in the general topic some weeks ago, it's harder to score goals in the FM19 and 20, whether by the AI or the player. FM20 is a game that happens few goals than it's previous versions, @blejdek can you post a screenshot of the amount of goals you scored and conceeded in the season? I can bet that even with you playing with a team full of offensively-minded players and using a high press your total amount of goals conceeded it's lower than the numbers of matches played.

Look the amount of goals the teams of big six of PL conceeded this season so far, i bet everyone to post a full Premier League 19-20 season in FM that these teams conceeds more than 30 goals

 

Post

 

May have something to do with this

 

english is not my first language

 

So i'm only 7 matches in the season and i scored 7 goals and conceded 6.

[blejdek]

11 hours ago, Svenc said:

Yeah, there weren't that overly many set piece attempts in there, inside the box 5 if I counted correctly. There were quite a few headers, in General, mostly not that hard to save from my end in isolation, overall. So I stand corrected. Prior matches with lots of shots on target but very few Goals were a save bet on this: set pieces galore leading to pressured headers, which the keeper would save over and over.

To me this doesn't look a high scoring game saved by an overly brilliant keeper -- at least most of the stuff he saves he is expected to (not saying that all of them were easy saves, however even the one on one sees the Forward under quite some pressure). However, the amount of shots (on target) is just too damn high. This would be the kind of match worth investigating for instances where shots simply aren't blocked/defended/tackled before they go off. If the numbers would go down then it wouldn't feel as "unfair". Just my opinion, this stuff has happened in the past to an extent IIRC. Too bad it's too late now for a possible report on FM20.

The game should really introduce something aping xG at some Point, so this would be less of a subjective debate.

This is my point spot on. If there were less shots on target I would expect less goals ofcourse, but on such a high note with shots on target and scoring just once, with not bad players is mind boggling for me.

I dont know if this is normal or not, I am playing fm for few years now, every year new version and i never had such ridiciolus stats like i'm having in fm 20. I dont understand at all your last sentence (prob smth specific?)

Overall I dont know if this is a bug or just normal occurence. I understand that everyone has matches like this, this is not problem. The problem for me is, it happens TOO OFTEN on this version. Because of it I get really frustrated and then i'm just thinking its my tactic but on the other side if it were my tactic then i wouldnt have so many chances for scoring a goal.

[Svenc]

10 hours ago, jeru said:

@Svenc your usual analysis of a set piece fest in prior versions was spot on however in FM2020 It’s a cross and header fest. Circa 80-90% of open play chances in this ME is a header from a cross, if you play a Lone striker who is small and wingers who are not great in the air you end up with stats like the OP. 

Some of them are also taken from areas further out than the Penalty spot...

[HUNT3R]

@blejdek, you had 2 good chances in the first half.

9th min - One, a clear header from a corner - how good is Lopez? What's his Balance and Heading, for instance?

41st min - Joao Marcos with a run (at an angle) at the keeper, with a defender closing down from the side. He's forced to shoot with his left. Is he left footed? What's his Balance, Composure and Finishing?

 

So you had 11 shots in the first half. 2 of them were decent chances. Tottenham also had a couple of chance from a corner earlier in the half. Quite even so far. Looking at the match stats, it's an even match, except for the shot count.

It should be pointed out that this wasn't a case of one team attacking and the other defending. This was a match against teams who both wanted to win.

Second half.

49th min - Smith has a good run on goal, but again a defender closing. He has to turn his body to be able to shoot on his right foot, which costs time and the shot is blocked. I assume he's right footed? A left footed guy would have been able to take the 1 v 1 with the keeper, but the extra time to set the body here, cost you. Not that you did anything, just pointing out what happened.

56th min - Smith again has a chance from an attacking throw in, but the box is packed and the "CCC" blocked.

in the 66th THEY  had a fantastic chance but it was fluffed.

77th - Hoever, your FB had a good chance, but from an angle and also, he's probably not a great finisher.

78th - from that corner, Moriba has a difficult volley, moving backwards, so not a good chance. Looking back, the game didn't even count it as a half chance.

81st - Hoever scores an amazing goal. Long range volley from the corner of the box. Reminds me of that one hit wonder from Danny Rose for Tottenham.

You got lucky. But then you also got complacent. You JUST took the lead. It's 81:44 mins on the clock against a team that has given you an even match up to now. This is what your attack still looks like:

What happened here? Goalkeeper gets it, sends it forward with most of your players not back and they score. To be completely fair though, it was a fantastic goal, getting the ball ahead of Hoever, skinning 2 players and smashing it in the top corner.

That chance at the end was a good one, but intense pressure from a defender and the shot from a bit far out. I would have said it's a half chance, apparently the game thinks it's a CCC. Is Lopez left footed?

 

And that was basically it. You weren't dominant. You just had more shots. You got a lucky goal and you could have won it if you tried to hold onto the lead. I don't think the chances you had made you definitely deserve a win. It was a fairly equal match with you just edging it in terms of chances. I'd love to see the answers to the questions above though.

[blejdek]

9 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

@blejdek, you had 2 good chances in the first half.

9th min - One, a clear header from a corner - how good is Lopez? What's his Balance and Heading, for instance?

41st min - Joao Marcos with a run (at an angle) at the keeper, with a defender closing down from the side. He's forced to shoot with his left. Is he left footed? What's his Balance, Composure and Finishing?

 

So you had 11 shots in the first half. 2 of them were decent chances. Tottenham also had a couple of chance from a corner earlier in the half. Quite even so far. Looking at the match stats, it's an even match, except for the shot count.

It should be pointed out that this wasn't a case of one team attacking and the other defending. This was a match against teams who both wanted to win.

Second half.

49th min - Smith has a good run on goal, but again a defender closing. He has to turn his body to be able to shoot on his right foot, which costs time and the shot is blocked. I assume he's right footed? A left footed guy would have been able to take the 1 v 1 with the keeper, but the extra time to set the body here, cost you. Not that you did anything, just pointing out what happened.

56th min - Smith again has a chance from an attacking throw in, but the box is packed and the "CCC" blocked.

in the 66th THEY  had a fantastic chance but it was fluffed.

77th - Hoever, your FB had a good chance, but from an angle and also, he's probably not a great finisher.

78th - from that corner, Moriba has a difficult volley, moving backwards, so not a good chance. Looking back, the game didn't even count it as a half chance.

81st - Hoever scores an amazing goal. Long range volley from the corner of the box. Reminds me of that one hit wonder from Danny Rose for Tottenham.

You got lucky. But then you also got complacent. You JUST took the lead. It's 81:44 mins on the clock against a team that has given you an even match up to now. This is what your attack still looks like:

What happened here? Goalkeeper gets it, sends it forward with most of your players not back and they score. To be completely fair though, it was a fantastic goal, getting the ball ahead of Hoever, skinning 2 players and smashing it in the top corner.

That chance at the end was a good one, but intense pressure from a defender and the shot from a bit far out. I would have said it's a half chance, apparently the game thinks it's a CCC. Is Lopez left footed?

 

And that was basically it. You weren't dominant. You just had more shots. You got a lucky goal and you could have won it if you tried to hold onto the lead. I don't think the chances you had made you definitely deserve a win. It was a fairly equal match with you maybe just edging it in terms of chances. I'd love to see the answers to the questions above though.

Here are Lopez and Marcos. And yes, Smithes stronger foot is right, his left is weak though.

 

Edited: Its true, I didnt try to hang onto a lead, was trying to stay on offensive so they couldnt have a long time on a ball, as you pointed out it backfired ?

Edited July 19, 2020 by blejdek

[HUNT3R]

Lopez is better than I though he was. I guess the 10 heading was maybe the issue.

Marcos being left footed and with the Balance and Composure he has, should he done better. I would have been really annoyed with that chance. It was at an angle, but needed to do better. Do you pay attention to body language at all? Anything that could have affected him?

[blejdek]

19 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Lopez is better than I though he was. I guess the 10 heading was maybe the issue.

Marcos being left footed and with the Balance and Composure he has, should he done better. I would have been really annoyed with that chance. It was at an angle, but needed to do better. Do you pay attention to body language at all? Anything that could have affected him?

Yeah, they are both amazing, I also trained them at multiple positions and they got to natural in just few matches, amazing prospects both lads.

I actually do pay attention to body language and he had no issues. Before the match he was very positive after my team talk. Overall team morale was not excellent but still high enough to do well. 

Maybe its easier to understand why i was/am so frustrated making this post, I still find it hard to accept that i didnt win this match.

[Svenc]

48 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

And that was basically it. You weren't dominant. You just had more shots. You got a lucky goal and you could have won it if you tried to hold onto the lead. I don't think the chances you had made you definitely deserve a win. It was a fairly equal match with you just edging it in terms of chances. I'd love to see the answers to the questions above though.

 

If the game had an xG stat, the suggested scoreline was probably in the 2ish-1ish range (definitely not a trashing in there), but the ease at which on target shots pile up is still definitely a concern. Likely also in parts a knock-on effect of header accuracy tuning, etc. there's barely a header in there that does go off target IIRC, even the ones from yards out. 

20 shtos on target is pretty much unheard of in Football, no matter how easy/hard the save for the keeper.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Svenc

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, blejdek said:

Maybe its easier to understand why i was/am so frustrated making this post, I still find it hard to accept that i didnt win this match.

Did you go through my post? I can understand the frustration at not winning, but this match was quite an even match. Also, it is just one match. They happen.

[Zemahh]

16 minutes ago, blejdek said:

Its true, I didnt try to hang onto a lead, was trying to stay on offensive so they couldnt have a long time on a ball, as you pointed out it backfired ?

So you willingly took the risk, got punished for it and it's somehow the game's fault.

No team in real life would keep throwing everyone forward in the 81st minute while having a lead. Especially not against Tottenham, who at least in my save, are winning titles on the bounce. AI will always chase the game in situations like that, especially if odds weren't far off to begin with, and if you keep playing gung-ho football against a Very Attacking AI, you're asking to concede. Especially late in the game, with players tiring or being on yellow cards.

There's ways to protect your lead without quite literally parking the bus and inviting pressure onto yourself. My favourite way is to simply play zero-risk possession football, keeping the ball away from AI and wasting time. Change mentality from Positive to Cautious, drop wide forwards into midfield strata and change their dribbling roles like Wingers into more conservative Wide Midfielders, sub one striker off in favour of a DM, etc. In your situation the AI adapted, you didn't react and got rightfully punished for it, as it made zero sense to keep taking as much risks as you did "so they wouldn't have a long time on the ball" (?).

[HUNT3R]

34 minutes ago, Svenc said:

If the game had an xG stat, the suggested scoreline was probably in the 2ish-1ish range, but the ease at which on target shots pile up is still definitely a concern. Likely also in parts a knock-on effect of header accuracy tuning, etc. there's barely a header in there that does go off target IIRC.

 

Looking at the picture of the goal % chance you posted higher up:

The header in the 9th min was a 20-40% chance, but this player's Heading isn't great.

The Marcos one that I would have been annoyed with, is a 10-15% chance. I wouldn't have expected him to score, just to have done more than what he did. The angle wasn't great but he could have attempted to go far post rather.

The Smith in the 46th (not 56th) is supposed to be a 20-40% chance, but there were 2 defenders right in front of him.

The Smith chance in the 49th (I missed that keeper intercept!) was a 5-10% shot.

The chance at the end is also a 5-10% chance.

--

They had chances from a corner around 28mins in. One was a CCC, but there was a defender right in front of the ball, so it was easily blocked.

Their Rodrygo chance was somewhere between 10-20% chance.

--

I don't know I that translates to xG, but neither side had particularly great chances apart from maybe the one or two for Leeds in the first half. Both goals came from very low percentage chances. I think theirs was a 5-10% chance and the Leeds goal doesn't even fall within that range. Probably something like 0.65 - 0.2 xG  

 

As a sidenote - I watched that on Extended Highlights, so I may have missed decent chances that the game for some reason didn't register.

[Pasonen]

26 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

The Marcos one that I would have been annoyed with, is a 10-15% chance. I wouldn't have expected him to score, just to have done more than what he did. The angle wasn't great but he could have attempted to go far post rather.

Yeah he took one dribble too much and got too close GK. 

[themadsheep2001]

4 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

 

Looking at the picture of the goal % chance you posted higher up:

The header in the 9th min was a 20-40% chance, but this player's Heading isn't great.

The Marcos one that I would have been annoyed with, is a 10-15% chance. I wouldn't have expected him to score, just to have done more than what he did. The angle wasn't great but he could have attempted to go far post rather.

The Smith in the 46th (not 56th) is supposed to be a 20-40% chance, but there were 2 defenders right in front of him.

The Smith chance in the 49th (I missed that keeper intercept!) was a 5-10% shot.

The chance at the end is also a 5-10% chance.

--

They had chances from a corner around 28mins in. One was a CCC, but there was a defender right in front of the ball, so it was easily blocked.

Their Rodrygo chance was somewhere between 10-20% chance.

--

I don't know I that translates to xG, but neither side had particularly great chances apart from maybe the one or two for Leeds in the first half. Both goals came from very low percentage chances. I think theirs was a 5-10% chance and the Leeds goal doesn't even fall within that range. Probably something like 0.65 - 0.2 xG  

 

As a sidenote - I watched that on Extended Highlights, so I may have missed decent chances that the game for some reason didn't register.

This actually is one of the bigger problems. Analysing shot quality is actually not easy at all. Shot filtering needs to be made much easier, and in an ideal world we move towards xG

@blejdek currently having a watch on comprehensive, will get back to you shortly

[blejdek]

11 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

This actually is one of the bigger problems. Analysing shot quality is actually not easy at all. Shot filtering needs to be made much easier, and in an ideal world we move towards xG

@blejdek currently having a watch on comprehensive, will get back to you shortly

Take your time. I watch matches always on comprehensive, I really like to see what is happening on the match most of the time so I can act accordingly

[Svenc]

34 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

This actually is one of the bigger problems. Analysing shot quality is actually not easy at all. Shot filtering needs to be made much easier, and in an ideal world we move towards xG

Yeah, it may as well be a 1ish-0ish. It's certainly not a trashing, either way, imo. The issue the OP has naturally is the gigantic amount of attempts that went on target. Not even back in the legendary match of Atalanta vs. Empoli did they have 20 shots actually on target (so far the highest xG without scoring) -- there's either something overtuned with the (header) accuracy or undertuned as to the pressure on the forward/s. 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Svenc