What to do with club legend/captain after promotion?

[Powermonger]

I am in a bit of a moral dilemma. I have won promotion to the EPL with Sheffield United and now need to strengthen my team to try not get relegated in my first season in the EPL. My DR player is my captain, is a club legend and loved by all fans and teammates, and a key player, however he is only getting a 2 star rating now. He is just not up to the standard required despite being named Player of the Year for the Championship League for the season that won us promotion.

What's the best course of action in these situations? I need to bring someone new in to strengthen the DR position, should I sell him, drop to backup/rotation status, or send him out on loan? I am worried I'll upset the team, board and fans if I sell him, or if I keep him and drop him as being a key player and the captain, I am worried he'll become unsettled and disrupt the team.

[Cougar2010]

You say he is 2* but how is he doing on the pitch?

I have a 2*MC who averages over 7.3 every season as a rotation option.

Also how old is he?

If you want to phase him out its best to do it gradually, bring in a starter and use him from the bench maybe giving him 20 starts.  The following year give him less starts and eventually he'll drift out of the team, once out the fans won't be that bothered when you let him go.

 

[Halfpipey]

Use him as rotation, keep him as captain and appoint your a good vice captain who will lead the team in most matches.

[mack4ever]

Just because he is only a 2* player doesn't automatically mean he's not good enough.

One of my best saves on FM16, where I turned Bristol City into the most dominant side in Europe, I almost always had at least one player in my regular XI who was rated at either 1.5 or 2*. While on paper they weren't good enough the reality was that despite being relatively weak overall, they were good enough in a few key areas to be able to reliably perform at the top level.

[Powermonger]

8 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

You say he is 2* but how is he doing on the pitch?

I have a 2*MC who averages over 7.3 every season as a rotation option.

Also how old is he?

If you want to phase him out its best to do it gradually, bring in a starter and use him from the bench maybe giving him 20 starts.  The following year give him less starts and eventually he'll drift out of the team, once out the fans won't be that bothered when you let him go.

 

I have not started the season yet so I cannot evaluate his performance. He is now 29 years old and has no stats over 15, let alone any key ones for his position. Perhaps on paper he is not looking like he'll cut the mustard but maybe I should give him a chance, while still bring in a new youngster to step in if need be.

[FrazT]

At 29 he is not past his best by any means, so I would bring in a younger rotation backup and ease him into the team over 2 or 3 years.  Be very wary of dropping or selling him unless his form is dreadful because both the board and the fans will be very upset.  Dont change the captaincy unless as a last resort for the same reasons.

[WarroOxford]

I judge players on their performances rather then what star rating my ass man is giving them. I've got Oxford City into League 1 so far and our first season in the league our best player was an AMR played as an Inside Forward who was only rated 1.5 stars. 

[Sherdil]

5 hours ago, Powermonger said:

I have not started the season yet so I cannot evaluate his performance. He is now 29 years old and has no stats over 15, let alone any key ones for his position. Perhaps on paper he is not looking like he'll cut the mustard but maybe I should give him a chance, while still bring in a new youngster to step in if need be.

For Right backs, I think having 12-14 stats is still premier league quality. Plus crosses are OP in FM16.. so yeah, give him a shot!

[phnompenhandy]

Answers on a postcard to Messrs J. Mourinho and A. Conte please 

[johnhughthom]

In my current game I have a player my staff rate as half a star ability and potential, yet he has been my player of the year the past two seasons playing as a box to box midfielder, a role I always find it difficult to get players to perform. 

Personally, in your position I'd ignore the stars.

[noikeee]

6 hours ago, FrazT said:

At 29 he is not past his best by any means, so I would bring in a younger rotation backup and ease him into the team over 2 or 3 years.  Be very wary of dropping or selling him unless his form is dreadful because both the board and the fans will be very upset.  Dont change the captaincy unless as a last resort for the same reasons.

I agree, annoying your captain can lead to serious problems in squad morale. I think if he's performing you can keep him as part of rotation, but try to hire a better player and test whether that player does really performs better, meanwhile having a good vice-captain that's actually a good player would be useful (as others said).

Then when your captain truly stops performing on the pitch, you can slowly drop him and eventually he should complain he isn't getting enough first team football, or admit he's maybe not up to the standards anymore and will retire or ask for a move to a lesser club. At that point then you can sell him as per his wishes. Board and fans still won't be 100% happy but this will be a much, much smoother transition than if you transfer list him now, which could risk seriously annoying everyone around and a massive squad meltdown.

[suncrush]

There's also not much of a morale hit if their contract expires.  I've had a few old stalwarts that just left the club because I didn't renew them.

[withnail316]

As others have said, I'd keep him. Sign a better player to start in his position, but keep him as your back up option. You can then phase him out gradually, which reduces the reaction from the fans and the board.

How many years are left on his contract?

[Powermonger]

9 minutes ago, withnail316 said:

As others have said, I'd keep him. Sign a better player to start in his position, but keep him as your back up option. You can then phase him out gradually, which reduces the reaction from the fans and the board.

How many years are left on his contract?

He's on the last year of his contract I believe. 

Last night I found a good young player to use in rotation in his position who has been transfer listed, is unhappy and wants to leave. I put in an offer and it gets accepted but when I get to contract negotiations with the player he complained and says he doesn't think he'll get first team football. So I try to speak with him to persuade him but he says he just isn't interested, despite my scout saying he is extremely interested in joining. Very annoying  

 

[withnail316]

9 minutes ago, Powermonger said:

He's on the last year of his contract I believe. 

Last night I found a good young player to use in rotation in his position who has been transfer listed, is unhappy and wants to leave. I put in an offer and it gets accepted but when I get to contract negotiations with the player he complained and says he doesn't think he'll get first team football. So I try to speak with him to persuade him but he says he just isn't interested, despite my scout saying he is extremely interested in joining. Very annoying  

 

If he's in his last year, it solves your problem. Keep him for this year, and then you can release him when his contract expires (unless he changes your mind with his performance.)

As for the replacement you identified, there is always another player, man. You could maybe bid again in a few weeks though if he is still there.

[BoxToBox]

In these situations, I'm always in favour of giving the player a crack if possible.

On the flip side, if and when it's clearly decided that a player isn't up to scratch, it's best to move them on. Think about it for the player too, it's probably better for them to get regular first team football than not play and be disgruntled at your/their favourite club. Moving on is often best for both parties.

Had a situation just like this, in FM 15, IIRC, kid joined the club as a free agent at 16, we'd just won promotion to the Conference Premier(or whatever it's called now, 5th level). He was from that point my starting right back for the next 7 years as we worked our way up the leagues to the Prem. He peaked as a Championship level player, but after a to this point career of 7+ averages, he got a go in the PL. Which didn't work well, he just could hang with top class wingers. IIRC, he got a season as first choice, and a second as backup, but then left when it was just too much for him.

[Powermonger]

26 minutes ago, withnail316 said:

As for the replacement you identified, there is always another player, man. You could maybe bid again in a few weeks though if he is still there.

I found another young guy who already has agreed to sign on, but I wanted the other guy.  Just perplexed why despite his situation and contrary to my scouts report he didn't want to come. Maybe my captain got wind of it and had a nice quiet chat to the guy in private. 

[alanschu14]

Regarding captaincy you could try asking him if he's cool stepping down.  I have tried that a few times after promotions and never had the current captain say no (they always understood that better players had come along).

 

[Powermonger]

12 minutes ago, alanschu14 said:

Regarding captaincy you could try asking him if he's cool stepping down.  I have tried that a few times after promotions and never had the current captain say no (they always understood that better players had come along).

 

I didn't realise that was an option, thanks for the tip!

[alanschu14]

6 minutes ago, Powermonger said:

I didn't realise that was an option, thanks for the tip!

I think it only comes up at the start of the season when they ask you to confirm the captaincy but there's usually an "Ask <Captain Name>" beside the "Confirm" button.

[Powermonger]

48 minutes ago, alanschu14 said:

I think it only comes up at the start of the season when they ask you to confirm the captaincy but there's usually an "Ask <Captain Name>" beside the "Confirm" button.

Ah I haven't reached that stage yet of my season. I am very pedantic at the start of a season, I spend hours agonising over my players and potential transfers, pre-season usually takes me longer then the season to complete. The life of a turtle

[withnail316]

5 hours ago, Powermonger said:

I found another young guy who already has agreed to sign on, but I wanted the other guy.  Just perplexed why despite his situation and contrary to my scouts report he didn't want to come. Maybe my captain got wind of it and had a nice quiet chat to the guy in private. 

Sometimes scouts don't always get it right, I guess...

[Powermonger]

16 minutes ago, withnail316 said:

Sometimes scouts don't always get it right, I guess...

I could understand if it wasn't a strong positive in his report, but the scout's remark in the report was dark green and said he was extremely interested in joining my team. Oh well, the new guy wins out.

[Macshimmy]

Alongside the 'stepping down as captain' tip, worth checking out his future plans and trying to move him into a coaching or scouting role.

Even if he turns out to be rubbish as a staff member, it's often an area where you can afford one 'spare pair of hands' to compile initial reports or add numbers for general training.

[Neil Brock]

A high CA may mean more stars but may not work in your tactical system, nor have the correct balance of attributes to perform well. I'm always in favour in trying out the team that got you there. By all means add the odd player, but would rather move up with my team rather than overhaul with each promotion. 

[Powermonger]

15 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

A high CA may mean more stars but may not work in your tactical system, nor have the correct balance of attributes to perform well. I'm always in favour in trying out the team that got you there. By all means add the odd player, but would rather move up with my team rather than overhaul with each promotion. 

You are right, I should give him a chance first before writing him off. 

 

[facman]

On 10/12/2016 at 23:55, Powermonger said:

I am in a bit of a moral dilemma. I have won promotion to the EPL with Sheffield United and now need to strengthen my team to try not get relegated in my first season in the EPL. My DR player is my captain, is a club legend and loved by all fans and teammates, and a key player, however he is only getting a 2 star rating now. He is just not up to the standard required despite being named Player of the Year for the Championship League for the season that won us promotion.

What's the best course of action in these situations? I need to bring someone new in to strengthen the DR position, should I sell him, drop to backup/rotation status, or send him out on loan? I am worried I'll upset the team, board and fans if I sell him, or if I keep him and drop him as being a key player and the captain, I am worried he'll become unsettled and disrupt the team.

I've just been promoted in my Leeds save (gratuitous plug below) and at the start of my second season my Captain (Bellusci) became my 3rd rated DC (on star rating) after buying Kevin Wimmer from Spurs. I didn't play Bellusci for the first 6 games of the new season in the EPL, although I noticed that my Assistant Manager would always select him if I hit 'Quick Selection'. After 6 games, with my defence not quite gelling, I brought my Captain back into the line-up, and lo and behold we started to look a lot better at the back! What did I learn from this? Star ratings are an attempt by an algorithm to classify how 'good' a player is, but the algorithm doesn't take into account your tactics or playing style. My advice would be to play your Captain in your first few games, and see if he can cope in the Premiership.

As an aside, my 2-star right back (starter in the Championship) coped just fine in the EPL as a defensive full back, splitting time with a 3 star attacking wingback (who was brought in for exactly the same reasons you mention above) who played in the 'easier' games when I needed a more attacking presence.

 

8 hours ago, Powermonger said:

Ah I haven't reached that stage yet of my season. I am very pedantic at the start of a season, I spend hours agonising over my players and potential transfers, pre-season usually takes me longer then the season to complete. The life of a turtle

Hah! That sounds exactly like me!

[Powermonger]

17 minutes ago, facman said:

I've just been promoted in my Leeds save (gratuitous plug below) and at the start of my second season my Captain (Bellusci) became my 3rd rated DC (on star rating) after buying Kevin Wimmer from Spurs. I didn't play Bellusci for the first 6 games of the new season in the EPL, although I noticed that my Assistant Manager would always select him if I hit 'Quick Selection'. After 6 games, with my defence not quite gelling, I brought my Captain back into the line-up, and lo and behold we started to look a lot better at the back! What did I learn from this? Star ratings are an attempt by an algorithm to classify how 'good' a player is, but the algorithm doesn't take into account your tactics or playing style. My advice would be to play your Captain in your first few games, and see if he can cope in the Premiership.

As an aside, my 2-star right back (starter in the Championship) coped just fine in the EPL as a defensive full back, splitting time with a 3 star attacking wingback (who was brought in for exactly the same reasons you mention above) who played in the 'easier' games when I needed a more attacking presence.

 

Hah! That sounds exactly like me!

Thanks for your story and experience, I shall give your travels a read

And greetings fellow turtler  I finished my last season I think on either Sunday or Monday night, I'm still stuck at round the first week of July scrutinising all the excellent reports my scouts have compiled for me over the last couple of months.

[facman]

1 minute ago, Powermonger said:

And greetings fellow turtler  I finished my last season I think on either Sunday or Monday night, I'm still stuck at round the first week of July scrutinising all the excellent reports my scouts have compiled for me over the last couple of months.

Yep, I know the feeling. I finished season 2 on Tuesday/Wednesday and I'm only up to June the 18th since then. Every click of 'Continue' is preceded by 5 minutes of worrying that I've missed someone new appearing on the transfer list, or a contract that I was supposed to offer...

[Powermonger]

9 minutes ago, facman said:

Yep, I know the feeling. I finished season 2 on Tuesday/Wednesday and I'm only up to June the 18th since then. Every click of 'Continue' is preceded by 5 minutes of worrying that I've missed someone new appearing on the transfer list, or a contract that I was supposed to offer...

Now I not feel so bad of being so slow. I tell you, a few days of 'continue' results in hours of agony worrying.

[BoxToBox]

9 hours ago, Powermonger said:

Ah I haven't reached that stage yet of my season. I am very pedantic at the start of a season, I spend hours agonising over my players and potential transfers, pre-season usually takes me longer then the season to complete. The life of a turtle

 

30 minutes ago, facman said:

Hah! That sounds exactly like me!

Another turtle here, I'm actually mid save in January right now and Napoli have bid for my LB. I need to decide whether to sell him and replace with one of 5 LB's I've scouted and earmarked, keep him and happy with a new contract, keep him and leave him unhappy. Or buy a new LB, keep my current and chuck my backup.

So I've saved and turned the game off, and will think about it while I'm off to the shops for an hour or so as I've already spent the last 45 minutes flicking from profile to profile, doing comparisons humming and hawig. 

 

 

[Powermonger]

1 hour ago, BoxToBox said:

 

Another turtle here, I'm actually mid save in January right now and Napoli have bid for my LB. I need to decide whether to sell him and replace with one of 5 LB's I've scouted and earmarked, keep him and happy with a new contract, keep him and leave him unhappy. Or buy a new LB, keep my current and chuck my backup.

So I've saved and turned the game off, and will think about it while I'm off to the shops for an hour or so as I've already spent the last 45 minutes flicking from profile to profile, doing comparisons humming and hawig. 

 

 

Good luck fellow turtler, I hope you can get to a decision in the next week or so

[BoxToBox]

47 minutes ago, Powermonger said:

Good luck fellow turtler, I hope you can get to a decision in the next week or so

All worked out, my current guy accepted a new contract on 32.5k a week, which was shocking, as his old contract was for 30k.

[facman]

2 minutes ago, BoxToBox said:

All worked out, my current guy accepted a new contract on 32.5k a week, which was shocking, as his old contract was for 30k.

Excellent, well done! I've set myself a target of not worrying about it for longer in real life than in game hours... e.g. I am not allowed to spend more than a real day advancing through the final day of the transfer window.  

[enigmatic]

Some points for thought on your captain's ability here:

Firstly your captain might not be as good as you think. There's a bug in right-back ratings which causes right backs to be awarded with two many key passes so their match ratings tend to be higher than they deserve. (This is different from the fact that both right and left full backs tend to perform very well in the match engine if your tactics allow them to overlap; that's proportionate to their actual ability to supply useful crosses, whereas the bug just gives lots of MoM awards by counting five yard sideways passes as MoM)

Secondly, 14s in the right places and no real weaknesses can mean a very good Premier League fullback - a position which isn't dependent on high abilities in particular areas as most. And if they have 14s in unusual but useful positions like crossing they might be very good indeed. If there's one position where a mediocre player can do absolutely fine for the team in top leagues it's fullback, especially if they're not slow and can cross.