Football Managers biggest fault.

[toby14]

I have loved and been addicted to the Football Manager series since the 2005 game. I love how detailed and realistic each game is and how much they progress and improve year upon year.

My main biggest criticism of the game, is how much a club has to spend to buy so many players. The unbelievably extortionate and high transfer bids you have to place to get a bid accepted simply makes the game terribly unrealistic. Basically, you can't buy many big players without placing a bid of £200m+ even then the manager doesn't accept the bid, it is accepted on the managers behalf by the board. How ridiculous.

Lets give you some examples, i've been a big team in each of the biggest leagues and made a bid for rafael, United's right back. I'd start with a realistic bid of about £15-£20m and go up buy £5m or so each time it gets rejected. Moyes kept rejected every single bid i made, to the point £195m was rejected.. seriously?

You're telling me, that in real life a bid of £195m came in to united for Rafael, they would reject it? That over doubles the world record fee.. for... Rafael..

Quite simply, In real life, if a bid came in for Rafael of around £20m or £25m tops, David Moyes was accept it in a heart beat and would most likely be delighted.

I struggle to comprehend how such an amazing game which strives for realism would have something so huge so obviously wrong.

There are tons of examples where you need to fork out a staggering £200m for players, Januzaj, Hazard, Javi Martinez, Aguero ETC

PLEASE sort this out for the new game. I know bids being accepted has so many variables such as, division rival, state of club, other players in squad, ETC, but you must make it more realistic, I would take about £30m-£40m to get Martinez, NO more than say £70m-£80m for Hazard and Aguero.

Thanks for reading, praying that this does change and i can buy players at a realistic price in future games.

[HUNT3R]

You don't need to fork out anything. The clubs simply don't want to sell. Would you have gone through with the 195m bid if it was accepted?

[toby14]

Obviously i don't NEED to fork out anything, but i had TONS of money to spend and needed a certain type of player, so yes i have had to spend £200m on a single player many times. How ridiculous. every player has their price, obviously clubs dont want to sell some players, but a certain amount of money (a lot less than £200M) would be accepted. Its football. its money.

[kris0710]

I don't have too much of a problem with this at all. Yes £200m for a player is extreme but on the other hand where is the fun or challenge in the game if every player has a 'release point'? You just have to accept that clubs don't want to sell and more fool you for playing £200m for players.I disagree with the prices you put on the likes of Hazard, Aguero and Martinez. Do you honestly think mega rich clubs like City or Chelsea would sell those players at those prices?

[HUNT3R]

Out of curiosity, toby, who are you managing?

[thomit]

How much would it cost ManU to replace Rafael? Maybe they would have to fork out just as much as you did - and still get a no? Sadly, the football world has gone crazy when it comes to buying fees and wages, with the money-doped clubs leading the race and adding fuel to the fire. FM just reflects this - as it should, if it's trying to simulate the current state of affairs.

[Cougar2010]

Obviously i don't NEED to fork out anything, but i had TONS of money to spend and needed a certain type of player, so yes i have had to spend £200m on a single player many times. How ridiculous. every player has their price, obviously clubs dont want to sell some players, but a certain amount of money (a lot less than £200M) would be accepted. Its football. its money.

If you spending £200m on a single player several times you are doing something wrong IMO.

Transfers start with scouting and identifying realistic targets, if this part is done right there is no way you should be spending £200m and that has been proven in several threads this last year.

[forameuss]

I think FM actually does pretty well in this regard. I managed both Barca and Real Madrid far on in the save, and both had become even more rich than they are now (no doubt bank-rolled, but I digress). As such, I really, really struggled to bring in anyone for low amounts for two reasons

1) at that level, you really have to go for the best of the best, so you're already in the top part of the market, and presumably these players are already at pretty good clubs, on pretty good packages

2) when you're a rich team, other teams KNOW you're a rich team, and they'll hold you to ransom for the players they don't really want to see going. They know you'll pay it, and if you don't, they get to keep their player.

I really don't get where all the problems with this feature come from - sure it's not perfect, but as someone said the last time this was brought up, it just seems like some players believe they should be able to sign anyone, and just don't like hearing no.

For the record, I think I spent about £250million at Barca, and then £300million at Real Madrid in one window, and that pretty much ended about as well as the whole Torres/Carroll situation did in real life.

[BoxToBox]

Why would City or Chelsea sell their best players at any price, unless the player wanted to leave? They have all the money they need and more besides.

[HUNT3R]

PLEASE sort this out for the new game. I know bids being accepted has so many variables such as, division rival, state of club, other players in squad, ETC, but you must make it more realistic, I would take about £30m-£40m to get Martinez, NO more than say £70m-£80m for Hazard and Aguero.

Tbh, this is where you're going wrong. You'd be prepared to pay 80m max for Hazard/Aguero. If the bid gets rejected, move on. Find another target that you can afford and that the club would be willing to sell.

[Jibby123]

Tbh, this is where you're going wrong. You'd be prepared to pay 80m max for Hazard/Aguero. If the bid gets rejected, move on. Find another target that you can afford and that the club would be willing to sell.

Agree with this. You really don't need to spend £80m on anyone to build a squad capable of performing at any level. There's plenty of fish in the sea etc.

If anything I'd argue that the transfer game is too easy to play at times, or certainly is if you're playing in the EPL, or European top leagues and especially the CL with money for old rope.

It's my favourite part of the game to squad build and can take me shedloads of seasons, but it's quite, or too, easy to a) keep the big gun European clubs from nicking your next superstar(s) and b) find and buy that next superstar for 1/10th of that £80m you think the Hazard's and Aguero's should be at most available for.

[Dedinho]

As much as this seems hard to believe, I agree with HUNT3R and others on this one. FM14 transfer system is the best ever (for me personally). Of course there are still smaller problems with it, but I wouldn't consider this particular case a problem. Although I must say I would rather see that the game has the option for managers/chairmen to say ''we won't sell him, no matter how much money you offer'' rather than requesting crazy amount for the player, trying to say ''We won't sell him, unless you give us a quarter of a billion euros''. I agree that part is a bit unrealistic.

[Jibby123]

As much as this seems hard to believe, I agree with HUNT3R and others on this one. FM14 transfer system is the best ever (for me personally). Of course there are still smaller problems with it, but I wouldn't consider this particular case a problem. Although I must say I would rather see that the game has the option for managers/chairmen to say ''we won't sell him, no matter how much money you offer'' rather than requesting crazy amount for the player, trying to say ''We won't sell him, unless you give us a quarter of a billion euros''. I agree that part is a bit unrealistic.

That used to be the case for a couple of versions but then you'd get a lot of posts complaining here that EVERYONE has a price, so never getting a bid accepting even if you offered £1bn was unrealistic/game breaking as well.

[Dedinho]

That used to be the case for a couple of versions but then you'd get a lot of posts complaining here that EVERYONE has a price, so never getting a bid accepting even if you offered £1bn was unrealistic/game breaking as well.

Oooooh ok, I see. Didn't know that. Well no matter how you translate it, the point is the same. He's not for sale. This problem has never occured to me though, because I don't even bother bidding players that don't have MIN AP and MAX AP in their scouting report.

[x42bn6]

That used to be the case for a couple of versions but then you'd get a lot of posts complaining here that EVERYONE has a price, so never getting a bid accepting even if you offered £1bn was unrealistic/game breaking as well.

The thing is, "not for sale" isn't the same as "doesn't have a price". If you don't want to sell something, you shouldn't feel obligated to price something (publically) - for one thing, get that initial offer grossly-underpriced and it can backfire. If you want to buy, on the other hand, you need to name a price (of course).

If a player isn't for sale, then the team should say that player isn't for sale, rather than spit out a price. The onus goes back to the buyer to gain their interest by raising their bid.

As for the OP's Rafael: £20-25m wouldn't do it for Rafael at all, but it's certainly not £195m. The moment it hit something like £50m, we would start to negotiate, in reality. As much as we love him, he can be replaced for that amount of money, and it would strengthen other areas of the squad.

[DamianJMcGrath]

I think the game saying "he's not for sale" is unrealistic. 99.9% of players are for sale in real life. I'm thinking Ronaldo to Madrid, Torres to Chelsea, Bale to Madrid, Fabregas to Barcelona, etc. I don't think any of those clubs wanted to sell but the price reached a figure that couldn't be turned down.

Its not even a case of the player wanting to move so the price was accepted because in FM, I never get a situation where my bid gets rejected, then the player moans and my follow up bid gets accepted. Doesn't happen.

I think more clubs should accept ridiculous bids more in FM to more closely mirror real life.

[sporadicsmiles]

Just to wade into this discussion, I find that if you play the transfer system properly, there is no issue. Here are the numbers for my past 3 sesaons at PSV:

2013/2014:

In: 7 players for £6.93million

Out: nobody sold

2014/2015:

In. £31.96 million on 8 players, the biggest outlay being £15million to replace a defender sold for £13.5 million. (Finances were really good after getting to the UCL semis).

Out: 5 players sold for £25.55 million. Including £13.5 million for a defender I bought for £2.4million, and £5.75million for a player I picked up on a free the previous season.

2015/2016: (only 1 window, although I only spend in Jan if I have to)

In: £11.13 million on 4 players (including one free)

Out: 7 players for £20.05 million. Including a player for £10 million who I bought for £4 million in my first season.

I actually have almost £20 million of my budget left, but there is nobody I want to buy who I can afford.

The point of that is that, the way I am doing it, transfers are working fine. When buying a scout a whole bunch of people who I think I may be interested in (and include people my scouts already found). I then not only check their star rating but also their price and wages. The player with the best combination of price, rating and wages is the one I sign, always. Currently, I have unsettled a young AMC from NAC Breda who is rated at 5 stars (by a good scout too). I seriously want this kid, he is transfer listed, but his club want £20 million for him. There is no way I am going to pay that, no matter how good he is. I would rather keep him unsettled with the occasional bid and wait to see what happens. The fact is that the club do not wish to lose this kid, because he looks like a serious future talent. In a year, when he has 1 year left on his contract, I strongly suspect this will change (although he may not come to me if he progresses in that time).

When selling, I make sure that I am aware of every player that another club has an interest in, and set a value accordingly. If it is a player who i s good, but either I have replacements or I know of a player I would buy to replace him, I will set a reasonable asking price and accept an offer that meets it. If it is a key player, I will usually set an asking price of £20 million plus. If an AI team meets this, then they can have him, because with £20 million as PSV, I will almost certainly be able to but someone who can do as good a job as anyone in my current first team. The key here though is to know who you will buy if you lose a player. Scout potential replacements, know how much they will cost, and then you will be able to move for a player quickly.

I think, if you follow these ideas, it is hard to go too far wrong with transfers.

[Jibby123]

Think that's pretty spot on sporadicsmiles. If you put some effort in plus some patience (as it should be?) then you can make it really work in moving in/out to suit what your vision is for your club at reasonable and realistic prices. Some deals are never going to happen to fit in with what you think they're worth (again as it should be?).

[x42bn6]

I think the game saying "he's not for sale" is unrealistic. 99.9% of players are for sale in real life. I'm thinking Ronaldo to Madrid, Torres to Chelsea, Bale to Madrid, Fabregas to Barcelona, etc. I don't think any of those clubs wanted to sell but the price reached a figure that couldn't be turned down.

Its not even a case of the player wanting to move so the price was accepted because in FM, I never get a situation where my bid gets rejected, then the player moans and my follow up bid gets accepted. Doesn't happen.

I think more clubs should accept ridiculous bids more in FM to more closely mirror real life.

By "not for sale" I mean "unless you tempt me, I'm not going to listen to you".

An example would be you finally buying and living in your dream house. There is clearly a price at which you would sell it, but that doesn't mean you have to tell a potential seller what that price is. Indeed, you might not even know what that price is - you'd have to speak with your solicitor, accountant, spouse, children... You'd need to crank out the spreadsheets to see what a reasonable price is... You'd also need to figure out what the profit margin you would be after, and the cost of finding a new home and moving...

Now, sure, you might spit out some pseudo-ridiculous figure like a billion pounds, but that is almost sarcastic and basically a human being knows that it's a silly figure. But if you tell a computer this, without it analysing your facial features or voice, it simply wouldn't know. What you really want to say is something like "it's too much effort to give you a figure. Go away and make me an offer that tempts me, then I will think about it". Or, in a lot of ways, "not for sale".

So, if someone wanted to buy the dream house you would own, how would the scenario go? The potential buyer would have done some research on house prices in the area, and maybe some analysis on you, and come up with a figure that is perhaps around market price. You would say "not for sale", as defined above. The buyer would be able to interpret this as "it's too much effort to give you a figure. Go away and make me an offer that tempts me, then I will think about it", then perhaps come back with an even better offer. At some point, assuming the buyer is still serious, you would be tempted - the "for sale" price perhaps - and eventually, serious negotiations may start.

Seeing "not for sale" is basically implicit that your bid is rubbish and you need to raise it. And the point at which serious negotiations will start shouldn't be ridiculous, like £195m for Rafael.

There are only a few cases that I can think of where "not for sale" is valid - one would be the best players in the world, in which case it is impossible to replace them. That said, such a price might still exist - a price that makes all the shareholders of that club billionaires, for example - fan loyalty too has a price - but for the sake of this game, I don't think it's really a valid scenario.

[thomit]

I bought Rafael from ManU after a couple of seasons for less than €20 million, I think it was around €18 million. So if the club is open for a deal, the price is not unreasonable. (Well, relatively speaking).

If you buy a player for more than double his market value, that is simply bad management, in my opinion. If you do that, you're a crap manager. Simple truth.

[gmulv]

I must admit, I have not seen this issue.

Yes some players you just can't buy even for silly money such as Messi or Ronaldo etc, but surely this is as it should be??

I just bought Isco from madrid for 22m which I thought was pretty good

Javi Martinez from Die Bayern for 40m

So they are there and you can buy them you just have to pick your moments and with a bit of luck........

I find scouting around and having patience I nearly always manage to get one of my shortlist of targets.

G

[SurferJames]

to be fair this conversation was sorted when the moderator said that these type of players in reality are not for sale...so expect only big bids to be accepted....but here is the thing there are ways around it such as....early in the season...make interest in player and unsettle him...i do this alot and get players like robben for 15 million.

[toby14]

Very surprised how none of you can really see my point.

Quite simply, Football Manager is striving to be as realistic as possible.

But for a bid to get accepted for SO many players you need to pay 4 or 5 X more than a figure that would get accepted in real life.

Lets use Javi Martinez as an example.

I know its possible to purchase him cheaper at different times and what have you, but i never seem to 'pick the right moment' to buy him.

Ok lets say his 'value' is £20m... obviously you almost always need to go higher than that which is completely understandable.

So a starting bid to Pep of £30m isnt unreasonable at all. Then Pep REALLY didnt want to sell his player and claims he isnt for sale.

Then a bid between £40-£50m in REAL LIFE WOULD 100% BE ACCEPTED. You cant tell me Pep would reject a bid that high for him.

Its a very simply concept. You should be paying no more than what Bale or Ronaldo cost in real life for these kind of players. This makes it REALISTIC.

[kris0710]

Very surprised how none of you can really see my point.

Quite simply, Football Manager is striving to be as realistic as possible.

But for a bid to get accepted for SO many players you need to pay 4 or 5 X more than a figure that would get accepted in real life.

Lets use Javi Martinez as an example.

I know its possible to purchase him cheaper at different times and what have you, but i never seem to 'pick the right moment' to buy him.

Ok lets say his 'value' is £20m... obviously you almost always need to go higher than that which is completely understandable.

So a starting bid to Pep of £30m isnt unreasonable at all. Then Pep REALLY didnt want to sell his player and claims he isnt for sale.

Then a bid between £40-£50m in REAL LIFE WOULD 100% BE ACCEPTED. You cant tell me Pep would reject a bid that high for him.

Its a very simply concept. You should be paying no more than what Bale or Ronaldo cost in real life for these kind of players. This makes it REALISTIC.

Everyone see's your point. At times players are over valued by their clubs but that is because they do not want to sell. You keep banging on about real life and saying the same thing over and over.

There is no way in this world that you have any idea what Bayern would accept of Javi Matinez yet you claim to know they would sell for £40-50m. Ridiculous claim. Considering Bayern paid around £25m for him and he is just 25 years old in my opinion they would not sell him for anything like the price you claim to know 100%.

With the case of Bale in real life does anyone really think he is worth more than Ronaldo? No. Not in a million years but Real Madrid had to pay top dollar for him and in my opinion and pretty much all of my friends think that RM over paid by a good £20-30m.

You seem to want a game that fits in with 'your views' and 'your values'. Yes your example of Rafael is crazy because in real life Utd would sell for £100m or whatever but in real life no club would ever bid that for him anyway. Personally I wouldn't trade my mars bar for him.

When bidding for these 'Worldie' players are you looking into their contracts, their wages, their status with the club. All that has a bearing on of an offer gets accepted. If you bid for Rafael just after he has signed a new long term deal then it will take a lot to get him, if he has a year left and isn't playing you would get him far cheaper.

In a simulation game you cannot keep going on about 'Real Life' because the second you hit 'Add Manager' it doesn't resemble real life. It seems to me you want a fifa type transfer system where every player is available to you no matter what, as long as you hit a 'trigger price'.

[toby14]

I obviously understand that players can be over valued due to reluctance to sell, but how can you justify needing to pay no less than £200m for practically any 'worldie'?

Surely you can see this needs to change.

[forameuss]

Its a very simply concept. You should be paying no more than what Bale or Ronaldo cost in real life for these kind of players. This makes it REALISTIC.

So in 10, 20, 30 years, £86 million will be the ceiling? What was the ceiling 10 years ago?

Now - £85million

2008 - £46.6million

2003 - £46.6million

1998 - £15million

1993 - £13million

So going back twenty years, the ceiling has risen by over 650%. Who is to say that in 10 years we won't see that exponential growth again? Inflation is "REALISTIC".

[stevemc]

Winds me up how I bid up to £200m for Alaba, and it gets rejected. Yet Bayern Munich find it acceptable to bid £20m for my Gareth Bale, then keep bidding in small increments, thinking that I'll accept it!?

[billyboyeden]

It makes me laugh when people put completely unrealistic inputs in like say a "200 million bid" and then get annoyed when you get an unrealistic response.

It's a simulation that tries to replicate real life so no one in their right mind would bid 195 million for a full back. You bid what you would realistically expect to pay, maybe play the media games and if you still get rejected, you move on to another target. I see no problem with that at all.

[toby14]

You are right.. but that has no relevance, this occurs from the off... so 2013.

[Cougar2010]

I obviously understand that players can be over valued due to reluctance to sell, but how can you justify needing to pay no less than £200m for practically any 'worldie'?

Surely you can see this needs to change.

It doesn't need to be justified because it simply isn't true.

The first thing you have to accept is that you can't buy any player that you want, some players are simply "Not for sale" at any given point. In real life this happens all the time and managers move on to other targets which is where FM differs for some FM users. You need to learn to move on to other targets.

The second thing is effort, transfers take effort, big transfers take more effort. Transfers don't happen overnight, or even days it may take months or even years to get that one player you want. When you identify that player do you talk to the media about him? make an enquiry to see if he is available? scout him to get an idea if he is interested in joining you?

Lets take your Javi Martinez example, he is valued at £20m, what did you do prior to making a bid? and why on earth did you bid £30m for him? You say £30m is not an unrealistic bid, I say it most definitely is as an early gambit.

[nyandoro]

I see that many of you have attacked the ridiculous decision of making a 200M bid instead of acknowledging the fact that bids of 100M+ getting rejected is plain unrealistic. Let's be serious, there is no such thing as "player not for sale". Honestly, I can't see any club in the world rejecting a 100M+ bid for a player other than Barcelona for Messi and Real for Ronaldo, so I'd say, yeah, in this area, the game is unrealistic.

[forameuss]

I see that many of you have attacked the ridiculous decision of making a 200M bid instead of acknowledging the fact that bids of 100M+ getting rejected is plain unrealistic. Let's be serious, there is no such thing as "player not for sale". Honestly, I can't see any club in the world rejecting a 100M+ bid for a player other than Barcelona for Messi and Real for Ronaldo, so I'd say, yeah, in this area, the game is unrealistic.

How can you say it's unrealistic when it is something that has never been tested in real life?

[billyboyeden]

I see that many of you have attacked the ridiculous decision of making a 200M bid instead of acknowledging the fact that bids of 100M+ getting rejected is plain unrealistic. Let's be serious, there is no such thing as "player not for sale". Honestly, I can't see any club in the world rejecting a 100M+ bid for a player other than Barcelona for Messi and Real for Ronaldo, so I'd say, yeah, in this area, the game is unrealistic.

No club in the world right now would make 100m bids to buy anyone other than messi or ronaldo so for the user even to make those kind of bids is still an unrealistic input.

[Cougar2010]

I see that many of you have attacked the ridiculous decision of making a 200M bid instead of acknowledging the fact that bids of 100M+ getting rejected is plain unrealistic. Let's be serious, there is no such thing as "player not for sale". Honestly, I can't see any club in the world rejecting a 100M+ bid for a player other than Barcelona for Messi and Real for Ronaldo, so I'd say, yeah, in this area, the game is unrealistic.

What about the ridiculous decision to make a £100m+ bid?

If you make an unrealistic input you shouldn't be surprised to get a unrealistic output.

[Wonky]

How can you say it's unrealistic when it is something that has never been tested in real life?

It has been tested. Real Madrid desperately wanted Gareth Bale. Tottenham didn't want to sell. It ended up happening for around €93m.

The ceiling in FM is too high. That's very clear. It still needs some work.

I have to say, though, that it's better that it's too high, rather than too low.

[billyboyeden]

What about the ridiculous decision to make a £100m+ bid?

If you make an unrealistic input you shouldn't be surprised to get a unrealistic output.

Exactly what I was trying to say but clearer. Thanks cougar2010

[nyandoro]

I totally agree with the fact that 100M+ bids are ridiculous. I'm just saying that I'd imagine such a bid being accepted.

[Cougar2010]

I totally agree with the fact that 100M+ bids are ridiculous. I'm just saying that I'd imagine such a bid being accepted.

Well that would depend on the player, the teams and several others factors.

The bottom line is with a little effort players can be sourced and bought for far less than £100m in FM just like RL. Those players that people are making £100m+ bids on are simply not for sale, in real life managers would move on rather than making ridiculous bids whilst in FM SI bowed to some users demands several years ago and took out the ability for AI clubs to say "Not for Sale".

Now we are getting to the stage where SI are having to do more hand holding and perhaps consider a way to stop users making these ridiculous bids.

[Andyh21]

Good thread to be fair, read the OP and agreed 100%, I've had to bid like 120 mil for Vidal from Juventus for example and still gets refused given he's only valued at like 35 mil which in itself is silly but then yes can see the logic in many replies. However this is true for many of the players so for the game and time wasting sake on my behalf, why not have a filter for player not for sale, like there is for unrealistic transfers? i.e. you never think about bidding for them do you, well I dont!

[Dedinho]

The only thing I think we can comment here is whether SI reached a bit too far with clubs demanding 200m for a player (requesting 90m-100m for a player like Hazard would be enough trying to say "he's not for sale). That is too high, otherwise what SI tried to do here is good, and on the right track. But that's just my opinion.

[stevemc]

I remember in old CM's, if you went to bid for a certain player, you'd hit a screen saying that "XXX isn't for sale at any price". And wouldn't even give you the option of bidding for him.

[thomit]

One way to do it would be to have the chairman reprimand you (the insane manager) when you make insane bids. "Wtf?! Are you trying to bankrupt the Club?!" Do this one time too many and you get the sack.

[forameuss]

The only thing I think we can comment here is whether SI reached a bit too far with clubs demanding 200m for a player (requesting 90m-100m for a player like Hazard would be enough trying to say "he's not for sale). That is too high, otherwise what SI tried to do here is good, and on the right track. But that's just my opinion.

That's quite a sensible thing to say for me. Basically, they're trying to mirror real life, but are hamstrung by those who will throw 200 million at a player. No club in their right mind would do that nowadays, but the game struggles to deal with that. To them, it seems a binary choice - the player is either for sale, or not. If he's not, then no amount of money will do, rather than accepting a ludicrous bid.

It's hard to say if it's the right way to go or not.

One way to do it would be to have the chairman reprimand you (the insane manager) when you make insane bids. "Wtf?! Are you trying to bankrupt the Club?!" Do this one time too many and you get the sack.

Or they could just block the bid outright, or just cancel when/if it goes through. You could do it any way though, I suppose. Having the board involved in something like this could actually be a really nice feature. You can already ask the board to negotiate a transfer on your behalf, but it would be nice if the board called you in more often.

"We see you've made a considerable bid for a player. We don't believe he is worth the money you are offering"

Then you can try and either justify the purchase to them, or they will cancel the transfer over your head. It would fit in with the model of football these days too for me.

[Dedinho]

That's quite a sensible thing to say for me. Basically, they're trying to mirror real life, but are hamstrung by those who will throw 200 million at a player. No club in their right mind would do that nowadays, but the game struggles to deal with that. To them, it seems a binary choice - the player is either for sale, or not. If he's not, then no amount of money will do, rather than accepting a ludicrous bid.

It's hard to say if it's the right way to go or not.

No no, you misunderstood me I believe, I completely agree with your point.

Well, to be completely honest, I maybe making a mistake because of my style of handling transfers. I would never give 90m-110m for a player, whose value is 30-40m (unless he's the next Messi or Ronaldo), and maybe the majority of FM players would. Well, I don't know, I'm just sharing my point of view, but like I said, I believe that with this years transfer system and player evaluation, SI made a big step into the right direction. The only problem I have with this years transfer system, is when a team is offering me let's say a 1.500.000 for a player, I reject, and they come back with an offer 1.500.000, and 24 month installments of total 20.000€. But I'm sure they'll fix that in FM15.

[forameuss]

No no, you misunderstood me I believe, I completely agree with your point.

Well, to be completely honest, I maybe making a mistake because of my style of handling transfers. I would never give 90m-110m for a player, whose value is 30-40m (unless he's the next Messi or Ronaldo), and maybe the majority of FM players would. Well, I don't know, I'm just sharing my point of view, but like I said, I believe that with this years transfer system and player evaluation, SI made a big step into the right direction. The only problem I have with this years transfer system, is when a team is offering me let's say a 1.500.000 for a player, I reject, and they come back with an offer 1.500.000, and 24 month installments of total 20.000€. But I'm sure they'll fix that in FM15.

Don't worry, I was kind of agreeing with you too - sorry if it came across like I wasn't

I completely agree that the transfer system has gotten a lot better. It isn't perfect, absolutely not (and for some it's never going to be) but it's definitely got better. With a bit of thought and effort, you can make the AI look like exactly what it is - rudimentary when compared to a human mind

EDIT: And just noticed your last part. Yeah, that's annoying. The tiny amount in monthly instalments gets added on too often for no apparent reason.

[BoxToBox]

EDIT: And just noticed your last part. Yeah, that's annoying. The tiny amount in monthly instalments gets added on too often for no apparent reason.

I wonder is that a glitch, where the computer thinks they're offering 20k per month, rather than a total of 20k.....

[martinji]

I want the game to strive for realism in responses wherever possible, no matter if my inputs are (subjectively) unrealistic. So I do think that "not for sale" shouldn't happen; the price should be set at a level that the selling club would accept but that no club would realistically be likely to bid, eg let's say if Man U really didn't want to sell Rafael, a price of £60m. If we want the game to realistically hamstring human managers from splurging on these sorts of players, then by far the best solution IMO is for the board to prevent you bidding that much. Not allow them to buy for £200m. That's the least realistic way of dealing with it, because it's much more unrealistic for both the selling and buying club.

A slightly ironic point though is that in the OP, once you have shown yourself to be willing to spend up to £200m on what - at world class levels - are relatively mediocre players, it is actually pretty realistic that other teams would see you coming and attempt to force the same.

[robbie.owen333]

The people who are banging on about 'getting an unrealistic output if you put in an unrealistic bid' are absolutely pathetic in my opinion.

I honestly cant believe grown men are actually debating this.

Of course it's a problem that £200m bids are being rejected for Rafael - no further discussion needed really. It is actually unbelievable that people are saying its the users fault for bidding £200m in the first place!

He wouldn't have to bid £200m if realistic offers were accepted - that's the point!!!!!!!!! Yes, we all realize 'its the AI way of saying not for sale yada yada'.

Someone actually said before 'What do you want? Trigger prices, where every player is available to you if you pay the right price?' - as if that's a preposterous notion!!!! Of course that is what we want - if we manage rich clubs we expect to be able to buy players you clown.

[x42bn6]

I don't get the argument that an unrealistic input can result in an unrealistic output. The game doesn't know what is realistic or not (it is an attempt to simulate reality, so this begs the question). This is probably a corruption of "garbage in, garbage out", which refers to inputs that don't match the preconditions (i.e. putting the letters "abc" as a bid). The game lets you bid £200m, so it should be able to handle £200m.

And what happens if you get offered £200m for a player who isn't worth anywhere near that value? You bite their hands off. So should the AI. Is there an argument that your own board should prevent you from doing this? Maybe, but both clubs should be capable of looking after themselves - and £200m for a replaceable player worth nowhere near that much is a no-brainer, really.

[9sublime]

99% of people in this thread are football manager/SI apologists, who defend the transfer system to the death in the face of all logic and evidence.

If Man Utd didn't want to sell Rafael, couldn't identify a replacement of equal ability, disliked the club they were selling to, disliked the manager they were selling to etc. etc. etc. THEY WOULD STILL SELL RAFAEL FOR £200 MILLION.