Lower League Barcelonas and Lack of Challenge

[Weezer]

Originally posted this in the OTF thread but it's not the best place for discussion on single issues so I'm going to stick it here, with a few addendum's, to see other people's experiences with it.

Thought I was playing some decent football in my other saves but I'm slightly disappointed to find that I can play exactly the same kind of football in League Two. My first lower league save in FM13 and my enjoyment has been dampened a touch by coming up against the likes of Morecambe and Aldershot and their tika-taka football.

Set my team to play a basic 442 (first time I've tried a flat 442 since the Championship Manager days) with little freedom and direct passing in the hope of recreating some good old British 'thud & blunder' lower league football only to find my team still tearing defences to pieces with incisive through balls after some silky one touch passes moves.

I'd also add, although this is not my main point, that the lower leagues are far too easy for the human player. I started this Northampton save in January, with one week left of the transfer window, so that the players and clubs already had some stats for me to look at.

Northampton were 18th in League Two when I took over and were on a run of 5 games without a win which included 4 non-scoring defeats. Also, 18 points away from play offs and only 7 above the relegation places. However after adding 3-4 first team players and applying my own tactics I've been undefeated in the 13 games I've played and have risen to 1 point outside the play-offs with 4 games remaining. Which would normally be great, but I was hoping this game would be a real struggle, a proper journeyman game where I slog it out in the lower leagues for a number of years. However I'm easily the best form team in the division now and will probably clinch promotion which has weirdly dampened my enthusiasm for this save.

Any others having issues with these two problems?

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

It's easy for YOU. Not everyone.

[haunted1234]

id like to think its because of the bad transfer AI

it's just way waaaay waaaaaaaay 2 easy to sign good players for free or with 1 year left on contract without any competition from the AI ever, not to mention the default player move to player whenever you try to sign someone 6 month before the end of a contract, i mean did anyone ever fail at signing someone when they put in the offer?

for me iam not watching the games, iam always holidaying between the transfer windows, i come back from holiday on 29.12. every season, sign whoever i think is good on 30.12. with 6 month left on contract, and go on holiday again, and all of them accept anyway my offer, i dont even have to worry about it...

thats why i also put the whole "start with a small club and take them to glory" thing to a side, because i know iam gonna make it anyway.. just maybe takes 5-10 seasons depending on how low i start but there is no challange however of doing so

[Weezer]

It's easy for YOU. Not everyone.

Without wanting to sound harsh, anyone who isn't finding this game easy doesn't have a good understanding of football. If I can get Northampton playing like Barcelona with less than half a dozen signings then I can't see how anyone else is failing.

I haven't even needed to look at the tactics forum, I've always created realistic tactics using my own football knowledge. Anyone can succeed in this game by using sound and logical tactics, and I've seen people in this forum try to tell people that until they're blue in the face but people still don't get it.

But anyway, my main issue is the quality of football in the lower leagues. FM seems to have gone the way of FIFA, wherein every single team, no matter what their rating or level plays exactly the same way. I'm disappointed that I've tried something different by testing myself against the likes of Torquay and Barnet rather than Man Utd and Arsenal only to find they all play exactly the same football anyway.

[Rathbanda]

One thing ive noticed which might effect why teams play Barcaesque is that first touch attribute has hardly any effect, for example Rooney has quite a poor first touch and sometimes fails to trap the ball which obviously results in a loss of possession. On fm 99% of the time the ball is glued to a players feet no matter how bad or good he is, you could probably have a keeper playing centre mid and he would still have the close control of Iniesta. The only time i really see my players take a heavy touch is when the ball is rebounded from a shot that comes at pace.

[hashassin]

One thing ive noticed which might effect why teams play Barcaesque is that first touch attribute has hardly any effect, for example Rooney has quite a poor first touch and sometimes fails to trap the ball which obviously results in a loss of possession. On fm 99% of the time the ball is glued to a players feet no matter how bad or good he is, you could probably have a keeper playing centre mid and he would still have the close control of Iniesta. The only time i really see my players take a heavy touch is when the ball is rebounded from a shot that comes at pace.

this is not fifa, you wont see every detail perfect during this game... although sometimes it may seem like that

[Jibby123]

Wierdly I saw a more realistic ME* in the lower leagues and was playing the game for a month or so wondering "if it was just me" not seeing the mad dribbles, no through balls and too many long shots. It was only when I got to the PL with obviously much better players I thought "aaah, I see what they're on about now".

* That's the doomsday clock for this thread kicked in probably....sorry, but hey.

[Weezer]

It's a strange one. If I was referring to one of the many other saves I've played in this game I wouldn't have a problem with the ME. I've been able to get my top teams playing some beautiful, realistic football,. Haven't seen any of this too many long shots nonsense either, because my tactics are sound and create a variety of different chances. Players like Bale/Neymar/Messi behave as they would irl i.e. running through defences and causing havoc. Playmakers like Xavi/Arteta/Hazard split defences with beautifully timed through balls etc etc.

However, it does become a problem when I move down to League Two and I find players like Luke Guttridge performing equally brilliant feats of creativity and my team that I set up to knock it up to the big lads Platt and Akinfenwa as often as possible stringing together 20+ pass moves before sliding it through for one of the aforementioned big men to slot a perfectly placed finish past the keeper.

All I've seen in the lower league so far in the 17 games I've played is exactly the same kind of football I was seeing in the top league but with a few more individual errors thrown in. And some admittedly shocking goalkeeping.

[CityAndColour]

I play in the Conference North and teams I come up against regularly play 20/30 touch moves from one end to the other. Seems to be related to the non-closing down/tackling issue of several updates ago, which I'm experiencing again.

[GundeGran]

I tend to agree on most points here. I have been playing as IFK Gothenburg (sweden mid team) and is now on my second season on a 14 games win streak. I pick up regens for free that is 17 years old and already playing in the u21-teams for rather big nations, as Uruguay, Turkey and ofc Sweden. Players that Premier League teams no doubt should pick up I get without any competition whatsoever. It is simply waaay to easy to find extremely good players for no money at all, without the AI.teams EVER getting involved.

Regarding the first touch, that attribute doesnt seem to be implemented correctly in the ME. Players with a first touch attribute value of 8 can still suck in powered shoots in their back head without any difficulty whatsoever. Quite annyoing.

When you´ve developed a sound tactic, success is guaranteed in lower leagues over time due to the AI being totally worthless when it comes to buy players. There is no charm in winning if its that easy. And, playing against Arsenal etc. in the Champions League, their style of football, their pace, their build up, generally everything, is identical of the lower league teams in Sweden. In fm12 there was a clear difference, but I can´t really say im seeing it in this ME

[Freakiie]

Yeah, First Touch doesn't seem to matter at all. I got a Carshalton save and in the BSP players can pick up clearances or goalkicks as if the ball is glued to them, even if they have to control the ball with their head! Not to mention you see volleys that would make goal off the year easily in real life every second match and the one touch passes rival Barcelona.

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

Finding it easy because you've used a saved game editor to scout for good players doesn't mean the game is easy.

I'd like the game to not allow players to manually scout anyone. If your scouts don't find him you shouldn't be allowed to sign him.

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

Duplicated

[Calvincito]

I have also seen this phenomena where I can sign free agents from every corner of the world.

They are regens that the game creates, and a few of them actually become rather good in a few season.

Stephanie's lover, I know what you mean by signing players that you look for manually (by entering and searching the international U21 squads for example), but that is not the case with the type of players mentioned by GundeGran and others.

I took over an amateur club in Ireland, and my scouts found nothing but a handful of players. When I went into players search I simply chose to narrow the search down to "free agents" and the age to be below 20. There they were. Sure, I didn't see all their attributes, but no manual searching whatsoever.

5 years later I've won the Irish PL several times and got the job at a top club in the English Championship. Out of those regens that I found from Ecuador, Switzerland, Greece, etc, I have brought four with me to the new team. Three of them play regularly and perform well.

To summarize it, I would say it has given me a sense of unrealism.

I doubt that a squad from Irish division 1 would consist of Ecuadorians, Spaniards, Greeks and Dutch players.

[GundeGran]

Yeah, my point is that it isn´t the manual "search" for players that makes you end up with awesome free transfers. My (rather poor) scouting teams excells at finding free 17-year olds (regens and real) with amazing attributes that goes straight into my first team. Why these players from countries like Uruguay wants to leave their clubs and go to the frozen Sweden half way around the world with a pre-season that lasts for about 4 snowy and cold months, well, i dont get it. And, if they are so keen on playing in Sweden, why isn´t any AI-controlled club, with about the same quality of scouts, getting in there and trying to sign the same players? I mean, I have such an abundance of cheap 4,5-5 potential star ranking players to sign that I cant even fit half of them into my team, I actually have to turn down a lot of players that would easily get a starting spot in Man Utd´s u19-team. This while playing a (on my save now former) mid team in the Swedish premier division.

If there, by chance, should be any players that my scouts miss, they get offered to me by agents. Its just way too easy to make dream teams out of poor or average lower leage clubs in fm13, just by signing an ever increasing amount of fantastic accesible free or cheap players.

[Icy]

As for the players easy to find and sign, well... you have two options or self imposing house rules:

- Play following the LLM guidelines, so not use at all of the player search, as you said, it's too easy that way.

- If you use the search page, check the checkbox that says something like: Show only results from your allowed scouted countries or something like that.

that way you will see only players from the countries where you are allowed to scout by your board, IE if you are playing in Ireland, probably you will find only players from the isles.

As for the other issue, with Low league teams playing like the top ones... i agree in some way, there should be more difference mainly in the strategies used. I watch a lot of games form my city club, that plays in the 3rd tier of the Spanish leagues (2ªB) and most of the teams strategy is just long balls, very direct, and the average games are so sloppy, rarely seing teams that pass a lot, as the players skills are not good enough. In FM, low league teams should play that way, ugly direct, slppy and very physical soccer, but then i guess some FM players would complain and feel bored if they are only used to watch premier league games in real life.

[Calvincito]

The regens aside, I feel that the other points made in this thread are valid; lower league teams play the same type of football as world class teams. Too much tiki-taka in irish division one. Even too much of it in the English Championship.

When I watch Barcelona play in real life I am in awe because they are so skilled. When I watch a (low level) local side play I am not as impressed. At all. There is - of course - a clear difference in the sheer quality and style of play between these two teams, but the difference that is so obvious in real life is not visible in the ME.

Whether the game is too easy or not is hard to answer. To me it has been easy so far, but I've been playing the game series for many years.

I believe that it is too easy to sign good players from exotic countries, and I don't appreciate the fact that my amateurish tier four side plays beautiful football more often than not.

[haunted1234]

Finding it easy because you've used a saved game editor to scout for good players doesn't mean the game is easy.

I'd like the game to not allow players to manually scout anyone. If your scouts don't find him you shouldn't be allowed to sign him.

does the player search tab count as game editor?

but i guess what i learned in this thread, for my next safe iam only gonna sign players who are found by my scouts, and avoid the player search tab, maybe thats gonna make the game a little harder, havent tried it yet

just selected all players on the search tab and added them to scout pool, no game editor needed?!

[Weezer]

Finding it easy because you've used a saved game editor to scout for good players doesn't mean the game is easy.

I'd like the game to not allow players to manually scout anyone. If your scouts don't find him you shouldn't be allowed to sign him.

You don't need a save game editor. Just use the player search filter to search for out of contract players, and then add a bunch of the better looking ones to your scout pool for the final opinion. In real life any manager would have access to lists of free agents, so it's within the realms of realism, and certainly not cheating. I try to keep it realistic by only buying players my scouts recommend but even then they can be so incompetent that they miss players that it is obvious to anyone could do a job for your team.

The main issue with it is that players from far flung corners of the globe should not accept part time contracts to come to whatever lower league team the player is playing as. You shouldn't have to impose self inflicted workarounds on yourself to enjoy a challenge.

[RBKalle]

I still don't see a reason for us to use self-imposed rules to reduce the effect of the game's shortcomings...

The "player search" module mimicks the "general knowledge" every club/manager must have of the football universe, and so does the scouting pool range.

There's nothing wrong with clubs even in some third-rate lower division to be aware of Uruguay U19 national team... Hell, as long as you have access to internet, it takes a couple of minutes to any Average Joe to find out who the hot youngsters in any competiton are.

What's really wrong is, as said, the fact you, manager of Bumfluff United in Northern Ireland 2nd division, can EASILY persuade players from every corner of the globe to join your obscure side.

Basically, as long as the dreaded "Reputation" factor allows it, a Costarican kid is as likely to join your club as a guy from the local pub.

In truth I can only see ONE valid reason for that to happen: immigration. But in that case it's more like "Player joins club after he moved to the country", not "Player moves to the country to join club".

But hey, in FM2009 you had bona fide local heroes leaving their South American nest at age 35, for the first time in their career, to join the likes of Bodø/Glimt or Keflavík for £500/pw...

It takes time, but maybe around FM18 the problem will have been solved

[Weezer]

I still don't see a reason for us to use self-imposed rules to reduce the effect of the game's shortcomings...

The "player search" module mimicks the "general knowledge" every club/manager must have of the football universe, and so does the scouting pool range.

There's nothing wrong with clubs even in some third-rate lower division to be aware of Uruguay U19 national team... Hell, as long as you have access to internet, it takes a couple of minutes to any Average Joe to find out who the hot youngsters in any competiton are.

What's really wrong is, as said, the fact you, manager of Bumfluff United in Northern Ireland 2nd division, can EASILY persuade players from every corner of the globe to join your obscure side.

Basically, as long as the dreaded "Reputation" factor allows it, a Costarican kid is as likely to join your club as a guy from the local pub.

In truth I can only see ONE valid reason for that to happen: immigration. But in that case it's more like "Player joins club after he moved to the country", not "Player moves to the country to join club".

But hey, in FM2009 you had bona fide local heroes leaving their South American nest at age 35, for the first time in their career, to join the likes of Bodø/Glimt or Keflavík for £500/pw...

It takes time, but maybe around FM18 the problem will have been solved

Or what I said....

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

You should only be able to search the players you've scouted though.

You want it more difficult don't use player search.

As for those saying I shouldn't have to not use it...

Does that mean if a game has an easy level you are going to use it and then say the game is too easy?

[sevra]

Set my team to play a basic 442 (first time I've tried a flat 442 since the Championship Manager days) with little freedom and direct passing in the hope of recreating some good old British 'thud & blunder' lower league football only to find my team still tearing defences to pieces with incisive through balls after some silky one touch passes moves.

Plz Plz share your tactics, I am deeply disappointed that my barcelona team isn't playing tiki-taka football at all. I have tryed different styles, different strategies and different paasing style, creative freedom, wid and tempo and other instructions only to found my players play no through passes but only short simple passes until one of them decides to dribble a long way and cross or shot.I can hardly see any of my instructions working. I am tired of it so plz share some experience. Thank you very much.

[RBKalle]

You should only be able to search the players you've scouted though.

How so?

All we need is a thicker "fog of war"' date=' meaning you shouldn't get a 100% accurate scouting report of Juan Hernandez from Quilmes U19 squad even though you're Galway United and your scout has never left the island.

But pretending such players don't exist to you is just absurd.

You want it more difficult don't use player search.

Or play a striker on goal and a goalie up front... with no CBs and CMs... that would make it even more difficult

As for those saying I shouldn't have to not use it...

Does that mean if a game has an easy level you are going to use it and then say the game is too easy?

The big difference is: easy level exists for a reason in games where the player must act/react. So the level of difficulty give him a bit of an edge to learn how to play. Or to win easily.

In FM it's not like that. The game's difficulty level should depend on which club you pick and how you want them to play.

This self-sabotaging "playing style" is just a way to overcome the game's flaws, but we should not be required to go to such great lengths to make the game more challenging.

It's as if in a FPS you decided to play at the highest difficulty level using only a knife and a handgun because the AI is too stupid to mount a serious challenge and you'd breeze through it even at the "Insane" level with the regular weaponry available.

Sure, it's your game and whatever floats your boat, but I maintain any game requiring players resorting to self-imposed additional rules to keep in interesting/competitive isn't a good game.

[haunted1234]

any game requiring players resorting to self-imposed additional rules to keep in interesting/competitive isn't a good game.

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

So because a few find it easy the game should be made harder for those who already find it difficult???

[SaLaDiN]

How is this game difficult? I signed 35+ old players who are slow as hell with poor technique, but magically, attributes in this game mean nothing, so I can just play tikataka counter attacks with my old grandpas, because they outrun everyone..

[Weezer]

So because a few find it easy the game should be made harder for those who already find it difficult???

The people finding it hard aren't doing right I'm afraid. It's simple. There's tonnes of good advice in the tactics forums and even in this forum. But you shouldn't even need it. I've never downloaded anyone else's tactics, I use my own football knowledge to create my own logical tactics that play how I want my team to play. Every so often you have to make the odd tweak to compensate for the idiosyncrasies of the ME but overall it's a good ME. If you have solid tactics and you're patient you will succeed. Seriously, it's almost impossible not to if you start at a low level.

[Kuchiki]

I stand by what Stephanie McMahon\'s Secret Lover is saying and I have a good understanding of tactics probably better than half the people who buy the game and I struggle.

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

The people finding it hard aren't doing right I'm afraid. It's simple. There's tonnes of good advice in the tactics forums and even in this forum. But you shouldn't even need it. I've never downloaded anyone else's tactics, I use my own football knowledge to create my own logical tactics that play how I want my team to play. Every so often you have to make the odd tweak to compensate for the idiosyncrasies of the ME but overall it's a good ME. If you have solid tactics and you're patient you will succeed. Seriously, it's almost impossible not to if you start at a low level.

How arrogant to presume the people struggling don't know about tactics.

There is a World of difference between real football management and FM. I know because I am a manager IRL.

FM is a PC game and like ALL PC games it is a matter of finding AI weaknesses. Nothing else.

As for advice in tactics. It's a load of hogwash in my opinion. They are talking about real-life tactics with the presumption that the game accurate portrays them. It doesn't.

SI MUST learn from FM Live that people will not pay money for something they struggle with.

[chinch]

with the last couple of FMs I have found it the same-

takes a few seasons to get used to the ME/tactics/training and to take full advantage of the transfer market whilst AI does not.

then from that point on it is pretty much plain sailing- not winning every game of every comp- but still pretty much dominating. And that is whether in the lower leagues or at elite level.

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

with the last couple of FMs I have found it the same-

takes a few seasons to get used to the ME/tactics/training and to take full advantage of the transfer market whilst AI does not.

then from that point on it is pretty much plain sailing- not winning every game of every comp- but still pretty much dominating. And that is whether in the lower leagues or at elite level.

True and that can be improved however, some people still find it difficult.

[Kuchiki]

with the last couple of FMs I have found it the same-

takes a few seasons to get used to the ME/tactics/training and to take full advantage of the transfer market whilst AI does not.

then from that point on it is pretty much plain sailing- not winning every game of every comp- but still pretty much dominating. And that is whether in the lower leagues or at elite level.

Admittedly I don't use the player search function for added realism, but I can still build a strong squad without it which I struggle with.

Perhaps the differences between us are that you are building squads which far overpower your opposition. Whereas my squad should be good enough to be able to compete with the opposition.

[Kriss]

How arrogant to presume the people struggling don't know about tactics.

There is a World of difference between real football management and FM. I know because I am a manager IRL.

FM is a PC game and like ALL PC games it is a matter of finding AI weaknesses. Nothing else.

As for advice in tactics. It's a load of hogwash in my opinion. They are talking about real-life tactics with the presumption that the game accurate portrays them. It doesn't.

SI MUST learn from FM Live that people will not pay money for something they struggle with.

If they would only realise the truth in what you say they wouldn't need to struggle.

[haunted1234]

Perhaps the differences between us are that you are building squads which far overpower your opposition. Whereas my squad should be good enough to be able to compete with the opposition.

i dont understand, you handicap yourself by buying worse players even if you have better options?

[Kuchiki]

i dont understand, you handicap yourself by buying worse players even if you have better options?

By not using the player search function you rely instead on your scouts ability and find players in a more realistic manner, it makes the game abit more challenging. I'd suggest heading over to the lower league management forum if this concept is alien to you.

[RBKalle]

As if scouts were completely inept...

Even taking the "player search" screen out of the equation, scouting is still very powerful and accurate.

The only partial limitation is your scouting range being smaller in lower leagues, but you can easily win back to back promotions without needing to rely on Paraguayan or Nigerian youngsters.

IMO it would be much more of a challenge not using scouts and signing players based on "actual knowledge", ie. player search only.

Still can't see a valid reason to willingly shoot yourself in the foot, but if people want to do so, just go for the really effective way

[haunted1234]

next step would be to hide all the player attributes, only rely on average rating and match statistics

[Erith22]

As someone who almost always starts at the bottom, I agree, it's a little too easy to sign free agents that are far better (and often cheaper!) than the players on your current roster. I think part of this must be up to the data set. Honestly, if there were all these players willing standing around in England far better than players already signed to clubs, willing to pay for less money, would clubs not be signing them instead?

Perhaps this is a product of database size? I've always thought 'bigger is better!' but maybe smaller DB's are a better choice for LLM because otherwise there are too many quality free agents.

Of course there are a number of things that don't quite work about LLM. In addition to the aforementioned 'Conference South Barcelona' issue, there's also the problem that budgets rarely make sense. Most LL teams have a wage budget, that if used even at %90, would bankrupt the club in a year.

[Weezer]

How arrogant to presume the people struggling don't know about tactics.

As for advice in tactics. It's a load of hogwash in my opinion. They are talking about real-life tactics with the presumption that the game accurate portrays them. It doesn't.

There are people in the tactics forum, and I'm sure hundreds of thousands around the world that don't post here, that succeed at this game. Which means it can be done. Which in turn also means that anyone who isn't succeeding because they're not doing it right, because as you say it's a game that is there to be beaten. There are many testaments on here from people that have taken on board this advice and reported marked improvements in their fortunes. The people that are struggling or whining about their team refusing through balls or constantly shooting from long range are the ones that either haven't seeked advice or are just crashing onwards with their own failed tactics without analysing it's performance and blaming the game.

But this is in no way the point of this thread, and I'm not trying to be boastful of my achievements. In fact I'd very much like to know what tactics these people are using so I can recreate the poor football in my lower league game as I'm really struggling to create anything other than unrealistically flowing football with my League Two journeymen!

[haunted1234]

well iam not from england, but shouldnt the player recruitment be somewhat bound to regions?

i cant imagine that a amateur player on part time contract would actually move across the country to play for a club based on appearance fee or 200€/week or whatever

they surely all have normal jobs in their town or somewhere near and as said just play part time~ but it would be 2 big of a job to implement i guess

i just know how it is in poland, if someone from the second division drops out of their team, they usually end up somewhere in a lower division team but in the same region, since they dont have the money and obviously dont pay enough to justify a big move across the country just to play some low division football

[Weezer]

well iam not from england, but shouldnt the player recruitment be somewhat bound to regions?

This would certainly be a start. As you say, it's a stretch to even imagine a part time footballer from say Newcastle wanted to traverse the length of England to play for another non-league team so when you factor in the United Nations squads that people can assemble in FM it's even more ludicrous.

[Calvincito]

This would certainly be a start. As you say, it's a stretch to even imagine a part time footballer from say Newcastle wanted to traverse the length of England to play for another non-league team so when you factor in the United Nations squads that people can assemble in FM it's even more ludicrous.

UN squads. Love the expression!

Important to say though, considering the point of the thread, is that it wouldn't matter if your squad consists of players from various regions of the world or just local british players from Tullmore.

They. All. Play. Similar. Football. On. The Pitch.

Maybe this type of discussion is more suitable for the "constructive ME feedback thread"?

[DavePott]

Wow people on here like to moan. Just look at Bournemouth this season, near relegation zone, now with Eddie Howe back they are back up near the top and just come off an 18 game unbeaten run since he took charge. You gonna complain to the football league about how unrealistic that is?

[xtrasyn]

If that wasn't closed some time ago because of the excessive number of people 'criticizing' the ME in a 'non-constructive' way, perhaps. (So now everyone just goes to fm-base to complain, and it gets more grim by the day)

[pearcey_90]

Bit of a dig at lower league football i feel. In real life there are teams down there that play a considerable amount of football and rarely hoof it. Even last night Bradford played football out of danger against a Premiership side. They of course used route one at times as Hanson had better of the Villas defence, but their best moves came from playing on the ground an though balls down the flanks between the full backs and center backs.

The way Swansea play now, was the same style they played back when they was in league 2 also.

It's a myth that all league 2 teams and lower can only play route one. They are very much capable of playing deadly passing football.

[Galldor]

How arrogant to presume the people struggling don't know about tactics.

There is a World of difference between real football management and FM. I know because I am a manager IRL.

FM is a PC game and like ALL PC games it is a matter of finding AI weaknesses. Nothing else.

As for advice in tactics. It's a load of hogwash in my opinion. They are talking about real-life tactics with the presumption that the game accurate portrays them. It doesn't.

SI MUST learn from FM Live that people will not pay money for something they struggle with.

+1

I find it hilarious that people think their 'in-depth footballing knowledge' somehow translates to FM, a game.

Also only a select few would actually want it to be a realistic simulation as then it's no longer a game but a job.

[martinji]

next step would be to hide all the player attributes, only rely on average rating and match statistics

that's actually what CM2 was like. The attributes were relative to the players intrinsic ability, not absolute, so someone with a 10 would be better than someone with a 15 if their intrinsic ability was more than 50% higher. It made av rating and match statistics, along with the scouts opinion, much more important to judgement.

Not saying it was better btw. It makes sense to have the attributes absolute like they are now. But the fog of war should be more prevalent and much slower to reveal.

There are four main issues I think with why it's too easy to sign great young cheap players

1) instant reveal of fog of war with a simple scout report, usually sameday or next day. Should be more blanks in attributes and fuzzy ranges.

2) scout judgement of potential is too good and too instant. There aren't enough reports like "Smith thinks that Davies may have potential, but needs another look [or suggests that Parker also watches him]" and even the very best scouts should be wrong way more often. At the moment, combined with point 1), you basically know whether a player is a potential star, potential first teamer, potential squad member, or not worth it, after one report card, with a very high degree of certainty.

3) not enough competition from the AI, they should be trying to find talented young players just as hard as we are

4) players much too willing to uproot themselves and travel across the world for not much reward or security. OK many would IRL for their big chance, but many wouldn't. Especially being offered a pittance to play in the reserves for an English non league team.