Understanding Your Tactic - The Discussion

[yonko]

You could try pushing the d-line up and hassle opponents through shouts?

From experience so far, the "hassle opponents" shout pulls the 2MCs even more out of their positions as it sets their closing down to the max. It's like using 2 extreme BWMs.

What I'm trying right now, is using 2 DLPs on defend and in Team Instructions screen my closing down is set to "default". Then I manually adjust the closing down for both DLPs to lock in on the default setting the TC has given them. Therefore if I use any shout that increases the closing down for my whole team (hassle opponents or push higher up), it effects everyone except for my DLPs. I also have their Marking always set to Tight Zonal, because I just want them sitting there and patrolling the area in front of my back 4. If I really need to squeeze the opposition and pressure them high up the field, I may "unleash" one of the DLPs away from those custom settings, but the other one would stay "on the leash".

I need to play a few more games like this but so far I've played two pre-season friendlies and it looks good on the screen. Naturally I could also try one DLP(d) and the other DLP(s) with "locked up" settings.

[Bruce Drundrige]

Agree with the above, getting the balance between your forward players in any of the 4-3-3 variations is important. I have found that having a winger is very helpful. I initially started with two inside forards, a DLF and a AP in the MC role but there was too much going on in there.

Playing a winger on one side can help stretch the opposition defence as well, contributing to helping open up gaps for others to exploit.

[tajj 7]

Playing a winger on one side can help stretch the opposition defence as well, contributing to helping open up gaps for others to exploit.

Very much so, whilst I like the idea of the IFs I think you need really good atacking full backs to provide the width.

[misterawesome]

Kind of. If you use a IF, you'll want to use your fullback as a Wing Back to provide cover. When I use a Winger, the corresponding fullback is set to automatic duty. My fullbacks are naturally attack-minded (as per my assistant reports), but I play them on an automatic setting. The idea being that they'll attack as-needed and do so naturally.

[Aquaplex]

Cleon, not sure if this was asked in the 14 pages, since i haven't read all of them, but if u find yourself down and you're trying to chase the game, do you change ur strategy from counter to let's say attacking or is it all done via shouts alone?

[Cleon]

Cleon, not sure if this was asked in the 14 pages, since i haven't read all of them, but if u find yourself down and you're trying to chase the game, do you change ur strategy from counter to let's say attacking or is it all done via shouts alone?

I actually did a thread about this;

[h=1]Going Behind In A Game - Turning It Around (The Discussion)[/h]

[Sapačko]

Im having a big issue with my tactic, we just dont seem to score really. Im playing with Real Sociedad. Every match we have more shots on target, but oppotents always score from 2.. This is driving me nuts!

Tactic:

Team Instructions:

Only thing i changed in my player instructions is Long Shots set to rarely

Im also using shots at the start of the game:

- Pass into space

- Hassle opponents

And few others to control possesion as retain posesseion, work ball into box etc...

[agentvinz]

Cleon can you pls explain why you don't play Lennon on left and Bale on right so they'll be on their opposite flank and it will be easier for them to cut inside. So what's better way actually to play an IF, on their prefferred flank (left footed on left etc) or the opposite flank?

[tommonufc]

Probably not the place to ask, as it's not tactical, but..

I'm looking for a player. A player that I spotted screenshotted in the Tactics thread (I'm sure..) a few days ago.. He was a young English player (that I'm certain), a central midfielder I thin, Cleon may have posted it, he was brought for Newcastle from a Scandinavian side.

I wouldn't ordinarly ask, but seeing as I've spent the last 30 mins trawling through threads trying to find said player I may as well seek a final end to my search.

[hursty2]

I've struggled since the very first week of having the game, I'm always fighting against it with whatever team I use. I've been using basic tactics standard 442's, counter attacking formations, basically formations and instructions that I deem to suit my team.

However, nothing works for me - I've read numerous threads in here telling me that what I'm doing, 'keeping it simple', is the right thing to do. Watch the matches in detail, analyse the other teams strengths and weaknesses. Nothings working though.

[Cleon]

Probably not the place to ask, as it's not tactical, but..

I'm looking for a player. A player that I spotted screenshotted in the Tactics thread (I'm sure..) a few days ago.. He was a young English player (that I'm certain), a central midfielder I thin, Cleon may have posted it, he was brought for Newcastle from a Scandinavian side.

I wouldn't ordinarly ask, but seeing as I've spent the last 30 mins trawling through threads trying to find said player I may as well seek a final end to my search.

It wasn't me I'm afraid. I did post a Argy DMC though who I bought for Newcastle maybe that's why you think it was me

[Cleon]

Cleon can you pls explain why you don't play Lennon on left and Bale on right so they'll be on their opposite flank and it will be easier for them to cut inside. So what's better way actually to play an IF, on their prefferred flank (left footed on left etc) or the opposite flank?

It doesn't make it easier to cut inside especially for Lennon because apart from his pace/acceleration he isn't that good in terms of attributes. Plus I didn't want Lennon cutting inside hence why he is the winger...

[Cleon]

I've struggled since the very first week of having the game, I'm always fighting against it with whatever team I use. I've been using basic tactics standard 442's, counter attacking formations, basically formations and instructions that I deem to suit my team.

However, nothing works for me - I've read numerous threads in here telling me that what I'm doing, 'keeping it simple', is the right thing to do. Watch the matches in detail, analyse the other teams strengths and weaknesses. Nothings working though.

I don't know how I can help you then

[hursty2]

I don't know how I can help you then

To be honest, neither do I. Just thought I'd post in here to vent.

I might try one last save and see how I go from there, it's just frustrating that I'm taking in all the advice and it's still not working. The players are probably below par.

One thing that I haven't had in most of my games is a proper pre-season. Starting unemployed and getting sacked does that to you, so I'll pick a new team and go from there.

[tajj 7]

Im having a big issue with my tactic' date=' we just dont seem to score really. Im playing with Real Sociedad. Every match we have more shots on target, but oppotents always score from 2.. This is driving me nuts!

Tactic: [img']http://i48.tinypic.com/20joeo8.png[/img]

Team Instructions:

Only thing i changed in my player instructions is Long Shots set to rarely

Im also using shots at the start of the game:

- Pass into space

- Hassle opponents

And few others to control possesion as retain posesseion, work ball into box etc...

Try a counter strategy if you are looking to retain possesion and work the ball from the back.

Link your shouts together, so if you want to 'hassle opponents', add 'push higher up' for example so your whole team will be a lot closer to enable the closing down to be more successful and help keep the team's shape.

Your left side is very attacking with a winger and wing back on attacking, this might create problems defensively.

Your AMR AP and your MC AP might be battling for the same space.

What are your front 3's pace, acceleration and off the ball attributes like? You have the 'pass into space' shout on but it might not suit your players especially a target man, 'Pass to feet' might be a better option.

[Sapačko]

Thanks for advices, will use them in new save after i deleted that Sociedad one! And yeah Pass into Space is not really a good idea because from top 3 in attack only Griezmann has a decent pace, Prieto and Agirretxe are slow players. And i will also change AP support to MCL so he dont battle for same space as AMR on AP (A) does... And also changing left side either AML on supports or DL support

[agentvinz]

It doesn't make it easier to cut inside especially for Lennon because apart from his pace/acceleration he isn't that good in terms of attributes. Plus I didn't want Lennon cutting inside hence why he is the winger...

Ok I got it but you still haven't answer my question what's the better way to play an IF, on their preferred flank or the opposite so they can find space and cut inside easier to score, or it doesn't matter that much?

Also what do you think about moving the wide player to the middle so you play with 3 striker, the central striker as treq making space for the 2 wider striker to exploit? I think it's easier for the striker to making run to the space created by the treq rather than IF wide because they still have fullbacks marking them

[Cleon]

Ok I got it but you still haven't answer my question what's the better way to play an IF, on their preferred flank or the opposite so they can find space and cut inside easier to score, or it doesn't matter that much?

You're asking a question that as many different answers. This all depends on what you expect from the IF's and how you play. What makes you think playing them on opposite sides is easier to find space and cut inside? While the cut inside bit is partly true it doesn't mean the player will find more space. If he forced out wide then he'd be on his weaker foot. What you would find though is the angle he created when shooting etc should in theory be better though.

But like I say, it all depends on how you play and how rest of the set up is functioning. This is something a lot of people don't seem to be able to fathom. It's not as easy as saying 'yeah this will/wont work' because the roles of the player around them are just as vital and important. You have to think how the role of reverse IF's would work in your current set up and then see if the benefits would be worth it or not. Plus remember the player will need to be intelligent and be able to do the things you ask him to be.

Also what do you think about moving the wide player to the middle so you play with 3 striker, the central striker as treq making space for the 2 wider striker to exploit? I think it's easier for the striker to making run to the space created by the treq rather than IF wide because they still have fullbacks marking them

You have 2 strikers and a Treq who drops deeper. Please explain to me how that makes it easier for the Treq to make space for the strikers to run into?

You'd be a lot easier to mark because the strikers would be far up the pitch already. Using wide players in the AML/AMR positions are better for using space created due to them been lower down the pitch and harder to mark because they play in front of the fullback and not on the same spot. So when the Treq drops deep he has no support from the midfield at all and chances are the strikers would already be marked out of the game.

The reason why AMR/AML are better than 3 central strikers is because hey naturally create movement and link up play. Using 3 strikers would mean all 3 would have to drop deep at times to try and create the space and then get back forward and exploit the space. The AML/AMR option is much easier because they run into space that is already created by the Treq and if set up right should see lots of free space. Like the set up in the opening post.

[RTHerringbone]

But like I say, it all depends on how you play and how rest of the set up is functioning. This is something a lot of people don't seem to be able to fathom. It's not as easy as saying 'yeah this will/wont work' because the roles of the player around them are just as vital and important.

Dead right. The only two tactics I've used in FM13 were a 4-1-2-2-1 with two Attacking IFs and a DLF (S), and now a flat 4-3-3.

For the way I have set things up, the 4-1-2-2-1 was great before the ME1339 update as it exploited just how effective wide play was back then.

The 4-3-3 is set up differently in almost every Role and Duty to the 4-1-2-2-1, as it is built with an entirely different pattern of play in mind.

I'd argue that a flat 4-3-3 can create as much movement up front as one striker, one AML and an AMR, but it can be different movement, creates different threats and different opportunities for the rest of the team as well.

[Cleon]

Dead right. The only two tactics I've used in FM13 were a 4-1-2-2-1 with two Attacking IFs and a DLF (S), and now a flat 4-3-3.

For the way I have set things up, the 4-1-2-2-1 was great before the ME1339 update as it exploited just how effective wide play was back then.

The 4-3-3 is set up differently in almost every Role and Duty to the 4-1-2-2-1, as it is built with an entirely different pattern of play in mind.

I'd argue that a flat 4-3-3 can create as much movement up front as one striker, one AML and an AMR, but it can be different movement, creates different threats and different opportunities for the rest of the team as well.

Agreed It doesn't create more space than the AML/AMR though because the 3 players would be to advanced to begin with so space would be limited.

[RTHerringbone]

Agreed It doesn't create more space than the AML/AMR though because the 3 players would be to advanced to begin with so space would be limited.

Correct, but does it create a better quality of space?

[Cleon]

Correct, but does it create a better quality of space?

I'd argue no

I think better quality space is best when someone drops deep and then someone runs into the space that's created. That's not to say the other way isn't good its just harder to do because it takes a certain type of player to be able to create his own space in such a tight area that lacks space to begin with. For this type of play I think we are talking top teams or top players who have really high attributes across the board.

[RTHerringbone]

I'd argue no

I think better quality space is best when someone drops deep and then someone runs into the space that's created. That's not to say the other way isn't good its just harder to do because it takes a certain type of player to be able to create his own space in such a tight area that lacks space to begin with. For this type of play I think we are talking top teams or top players who have really high attributes across the board.

It has been a completely different style of play to watch. The 4-1-2-2-1 was quite one dimensional as a hell of a lot of my goals were scored by Attacking IFs moving into space vacated by a DLF (Support). In that sense it was more efficient use of space created than the 4-3-3, but for my tactic that was just about the previous ME appearing to favour certain types of wide play.

The new set up creates less of the movement you refer to "when someone drops deep and then someone runs into the space that's created", but more nice interplay in very tight areas than the 4-1-2-2-1. What it also does is create a different sort of space, as my strikers pull opposition full backs into the middle of the pitch, leaving room for my wing backs to exploit.

It is really nice to see the sort of variety that different tactics can create in FM. I stupidly want to try a flat 4-2-4 next but have too few forwards and too many CMs to try it. Maybe in FM14.

[Cleon]

It has been a completely different style of play to watch. The 4-1-2-2-1 was quite one dimensional as a hell of a lot of my goals were scored by Attacking IFs moving into space vacated by a DLF (Support). In that sense it was more efficient use of space created than the 4-3-3, but for my tactic that was just about the previous ME appearing to favour certain types of wide play.

The new set up creates less of the movement you refer to "when someone drops deep and then someone runs into the space that's created", but more nice interplay in very tight areas than the 4-1-2-2-1. What it also does is create a different sort of space, as my strikers pull opposition full backs into the middle of the pitch, leaving room for my wing backs to exploit.

It is really nice to see the sort of variety that different tactics can create in FM. I stupidly want to try a flat 4-2-4 next but have too few forwards and too many CMs to try it. Maybe in FM14.

Who do you play as? I'm not disagreeing with what you say btw. I actually agree and your way is just a different way of creating space and a different type of movement. The 1-2-1-4-2-0 I use creates a similar type of space to what you mention. It's actually a hybrid of the both we've mentioned so far

At the end of the day its all about finding what works for you, as the individual and your posts highlight that really well

[RTHerringbone]

I'm Barcelona in 2022.

[Soldatino]

Dear tactics experts, I'm struggling with my save - may you be so kind and help me out?

I begin with a little description: I have started in the Italian Serie B with Modena. I chose to play with a 4-5-1 formation, I was expected to be a safe mid-table team, yet at the start of season I was beating the odds as I started with incredible 22 points out of 8 matches. Then everything went wrong, I started to lose way too often, only managing to snatch a draw here and there against much weaker opponents.

Now I find myself entering the last third of the season, and what could have been a promotion playoff position bid may end up in relegation and/or being fired. During January, I tried to strengthen my team, getting a good MC and an acceptable LB, however the results have not improved that much and now even my top scorer got injured for a month.

Finally I started to do some thorough reading here on the forums, and I started to see where the problems might be coming from. The most obvious one is our scoring, apart from my striker, we basically have no-one scoring for us, that does mean that my tactics is way too much one-dimensional? Another problem I suspect is my central defense pairing and the DM as we seem to leak goals in above all through the middle.

Screen-shots are forthcoming, here are some words about the tactics I use (used). Basically all the time I have used a 4-5-1:

Rigid style earlier this season, I moved on to balanced one later as I thought it would improve our movement when going forward.

Strategy I was trying mostly between counter and standard, only lately I have started to use defensive one and my play seem to have improved (or at least optically).

I use zonal marking, as for the rest most of the other options I left on default, apart from drilling crosses and at a certain point, I was trying how would soft / hard tackling affect my defending. I have also tried some matches on higher closing down pressure.

I tried to have my MCL as a play-maker, however it lead to him losing the ball too often while holding it up.

Now to the individual roles/duties

GK - defend

RB - full back on support

CD - both central defenders are on defend duty

CD - ...

LB - full back on attack (is it odd that my RB is actually more useful when going forward, having much more assists too?)

DMC - most of the season as an anchor, lately I settled for a DLP/defend though, as the player there seemed to offer interesting long passes to start counter attacks down the (mostly right) wing

MCR - 99% of matches advanced play-maker - attack, at one point, he used to sent nice balls, either to my striker, or the AMR to create interesting opportunities, however lately he has produced next to nothing and another problem is, he is not very good with dribbling, so he loses the ball way too often, I tried central midfielder - attack a couple of times, but the guy seemed useless, playing a match of his own I may give it more time though?

MCL - early in the season it was deep lying play-maker on support duty, while I liked the position of the guy, he was losing way too many balls because of holding up the ball or not precise passes, so lately I'm using there a CM/support, the guy doesn't lose balls, however he doesn't add that much neither - I do not have players that could do BWM well, maybe a B2B might be worth a try?

AMR - it's pretty much 50/50 between winger/attack and inside forward on attack, i used winger against teams with a 3 DCs, IF against 4 man defenses

AML - inside forward/support, I have gotten there a 4 stars guy, paying pretty much all my budget for him, he got injured after a couple of matches and returned only recently, while the subs were either a 19 years old kid, or AMRs, playing in position they were far from being competent at. I believe lacking good player in this position is a big part of my offensive struggle?

ST - my striker is the only reason we are not rock bottom, he literally scored more than 90 percent of my team's goals, I've tried to use him either as deep lying forward / support or attack, I have also tried briefly as trequartista

During matches I often use shouts, exploit the middle/flanks, according to "gut feeling" during the match, sometimes when I feel we are losing way too many balls because of passing, I try retain possession + pass in feet. Lately I started to use hassle opponents, but I'm not able to tell what kind of difference it actually made. I should add that I view the matches on extended highlights.

As for opponent instructions, I mostly use closing down and show onto weaker foot for side backs, full backs and wingers, on single AMC I use tight marking and hard tackling, I have tried closing down or tight marking on strikers, but it often led to my defenders to get out of position and leave empty space for another opponent's player to score easily.

Now the screen-shots:

We do stand well in compare to other teams, surely we should do better than sitting on 18th place :-(

The way we leak in goals, biggest problem is the middle, right? How to solve that?

Screen of my most common tactics setup

Statistics of my very last game, home lose agaisnt Verona. Most of the times they are pretty much alike.

Should I post something more, like screen-shots of my key players / positions?

I'm really looking forward to your help guys, any tips and suggestions are more than welcome.

PS. I apologize for such a long post!

[lewis999]

Seeing your players would help mate if possible. I'll have a go at helping if I can see your preferred first 11? Because obviously you have a good squad for your division. On the information given I would leave OI's alone until you see something in the game. If you do it before the game without watching anything with all the closing down settings then your players are gonna get dragged all over.

[XenoExclusive]

Literally took me about 7 days to read all the way through this bad boy so thoroughly. But my head is already empty. Such a shocking in-and-out memory. Having heaps more fun playing this game on my own accord, with shouts, OI's, tactics etc, but still lacking a little in knowledge. I'll give you details of a match coming up, and describe what I think I should do, and I'd love some feedback!

My up and coming fixture (actually just kicked off and paused) is early on in the season against Man Utd. I'm playing at home with a custom squad. Here are the squads.

I'm using Zonal, Drilling, More Expression and More Roaming. Removed FC as playmaker (changed to none). Removed TTB - Often from Javi Martinez (changed to mixed). These are all instructions I use for every game.

Now here is what I think I should do and what I'd like some feedback on.

1. I've got my FB's man marking (not tight) Man Utds AMR/Ls. Is this a good move? And should I be doing this against every winger in this formation?

2. As you can see I've changed my IF's from (A) to (S), and changed my DM from DLP (D) to DMC (D).

3. Got my two man midfield of Gotze and Martinez man marking (tight) the opponent MCs. Again, is this something I should do against every formation with two MCs? Because I have been, and I'm worried (and with reason) that Gotze is wasted and ineffective at man marking.

I haven't decided on any shouts to use as yet, but am sure it will come apparent at kick off.

How is all that looking? Would it be better to remove man marking off my FB's and just push the d-line back via shouts? Am I man marking MCs too often? Any feedback would be delightful!

Thanks for reading, Xeno.

EDIT: Just in case I want to annoy you later on with questions and screenshots, anyone wanna know why mine are such bad resolution? I screenshotted, opened in Paint, reduced aspect and saved as JPEG. Uploaded to Imgur

EDIT #2: I see the names aren't too clear in that post, so I'll list the squad.

GK: GKD - Casillas

DR/L: FB(A) - Azpilicueta/Baines

DCs: DC(D) - Kompany/Vidic

DMC: DM(D) - M'Vila

MCr/l: AP(A)/CM(S) - Gotze/Martinez

AMR/L: IF(S) - Messi/Ronaldo

FC: Treq - Hazard

GK: De Gea

DR/L: Fletcher/Evra

DCs: Ferdinand/McCullough

MCs: Carrick/Hamsik

AMC: Kagawa

AMR/L: Nani/Young

FC: Wellbeck

[lewis999]

Without sounding a total tool I doubt you need to do any of the above to win. With that team, just keep pressing continue and I reckon you would win 95% of games with an average tactic.

[XenoExclusive]

Well that is 100% not true. In fact, I just lost this game 2-1.

After the first 20 minutes I was having trouble keeping possession and missing easy passes, so used the Retain Possession shout. Had a little improvement after then. At half time I realized via the heat map that my entire team was deeper than theirs (by quite a margin). Didn't exactly know what to do with that information, as I didn't want to push up my d-line due to Man Utd's quick attack. I noticed I was leaking a bit, and that there was quite a massive gap in Man Utd's field between their FB's and wingers, so I narrowed up my formation and focused down the flanks. I must be reading the information totally wrong.

I dominated (only very slightly) in total shots, but fell a little short in shots on target.

So no, even with a good team this game is no where near plug and play. Which I like. But I'd still like some help

[vasilli07]

EDIT: Just in case I want to annoy you later on with questions and screenshots, anyone wanna know why mine are such bad resolution? I screenshotted, opened in Paint, reduced aspect and saved as JPEG. Uploaded to Imgur

To do a screenshot, you can just use alt+f9 as shortcut. The picture will be saved in my documents - sports interactive - fm13 - screenshots folder.

[XenoExclusive]

Just lost the next game 2-1 also. Both played in Full Match highlights making alterations as see fit. This game was against same formation (noticing a trend here maybe) and Newcastle.

This time didn't MM opposition MCs. In fact, didn't MM anyone. No OI's either. Again found myself with my entire team situated well deeper than Newcastle, so pushed my line up seeing they didn't have any pace. Was REALLY struggling for possession (33% after 10 mins, even after shouting Retain Possession), so looked to see what the problem was. Both two on the left flank were having troubles connecting their passes, and so were both DCs and DMC, so gave my AML a support role, and shouted Play Out of Defence. After seeing how pressing Newcastle was and how easily and often they would instantly take back possession off my wingmen in particular, I asked them to Play Through Defence and Hassled Opponents (just to help get the ball back as was still struggling with possession. I think that's all, and that was gradual over the full 90 minutes. Definitely played better than last game, but not good enough.

Seems like I didn't learn anything at all!!

[ricardomac]

I'm still playing last year's version, 'cause I didn't want to buy the new one (shame on me). But, as I said before, you're threads are an incredible source of information and FM knowledge. Thanks for taking the time to post these things.

Cheers.

[Soldatino]

Seeing your players would help mate if possible. I'll have a go at helping if I can see your preferred first 11? Because obviously you have a good squad for your division. On the information given I would leave OI's alone until you see something in the game. If you do it before the game without watching anything with all the closing down settings then your players are gonna get dragged all over.

Thank you very much, I'm looking forward to your help! Here are 20 players I used most, apart from a screen-shot, I have added a short description about how I feel about them too. The screen-shot is on the link, not to cause too much mess to the forum with 20 images.

Colombi - goalkeeper - screenshot

My number one as goalkeeper, played every single match this season, apart from 3 cases when he was on international duties.

Zoboli - CD / defend - screenshot

Best defender we have, he wins pretty much everything in the air

Andelkovic - CD / defend or occasionaly LB full back / attack - screenshot

He started the season in couple with Zoboli, pretty well I must add. Then because of injury crisis on LB I had to move him there and then he got a 4 month injury, he is about to return now.

Perna - CD / defend - screenshot

Started the season as a sub, with time he managed to get a place in starting lineup, for from Zoboli or Andelkovic, he is very inconsistent too, can come from a 7.5 in one match to a 5.0 in the following one.

Gozzi - CD / defend - screenshot

A substitute, and not a good one, few matches I made him a starter he had repaid with mistakes and low rating.

Marinos RB full back / support - screenshot

Initially he struggled, but after a while he became one of my best players both forward and back.

Murru RB or LB full back / support - screenshot

A sub for both sides.

Calderoni LB full back / attack - screenshot

Arrived in January, as an alternative on the left, in the matches he played so far he seemed good defensivelly.

Pugliese LB full back / attack - screenshot

On field pretty much alike to Calderoni, however this is my problem with LBs, when attacking, they seem to get forward and in (imo) right places, however the team-mates just ignore them, hardly ever sending them the ball, eventhough they are uncovered etc.

Signori DMC anchor or deep lying playmaker / defend - screenshot

In the highlights he seems one of my key players, always ready to get the ball and serve it forward. But the number of goals we concede through the middle says that something is not working there.

Dalla Bona MC deep lying playmaker / support or central midfielder / support - screenshot

Another sure starter, he seems to be able either to create something interesting, or lose ball in an incredible way (lately mostly the latter).

Moretti MC advanced playmaker / attack or central midfielder / attack - screenshot

In the first part of season, he was by far my best player, constantly creating chances for my RW or striker. Lately he started to dribble too much resulting in unnecessary loses of ball so I tried him as a CM / attack, nothing has improved in terms of creating though.

Rueda MC deep laying playmaker / support or advanced playmaker / attack - screenshot

January arrival, more one for the future as 3/4 of my squad are loans, so far I tried him both MLC and MRC, in a couple of matches as DLP he nevor got over 6.0, while on ADP he gets better rating, yet shows nothing on the pitch.

Osuji MC central midfielder / attack, sometimes also as right winger / attack - screenshot

A sub in the midfield, he's natural on MR, but mostly I had used him as a sub for my MCR.

Lazarevic AMR winger or inside forward / attack - screenshot

He was dangerous mostly used as an inside forward, he is constantly picking up various injuries though.

Lepiller AML inside forward / support - screenshot

My big summer spending, he was what I thought we missed on AML and in the first few matches he actually proved it. Then he got a very long injury, recently he came back, but he doesn't do the difference anymore.

Piscitella AML inside forward / support - screenshot

Most likely not ready yet for Serie B level, but because of injuries he got much more playing time than I would've wished. He had some good matches though, it seems to me he'd be better suited to winger though.

Surraco AMR winger / attack - screenshot

When he is on his day, he is unstoppable. It's a pity that he doesn't have a good day very often.

Ardemagni deep lying attacker / support or attack and trequertista - screenshot

At the start of season he was scoring for fun, lately he scores less, but still he is pretty much the only person able to put it into the back of the net. Scored about 80-90% goals of our team.

Stanco deep lying attacker / support or attack - screenshot

Substitute of Ardemagni, he played only when injury forced our major striker out (and actually, I prefered even winger Lazarevic in attack, when possible).

[briz_lad]

Thank you very much, I'm looking forward to your help! Here are 20 players I used most, apart from a screen-shot, I have added a short description about how I feel about them too. The screen-shot is on the link, not to cause too much mess to the forum with 20 images.

Colombi - goalkeeper - screenshot

My number one as goalkeeper, played every single match this season, apart from 3 cases when he was on international duties.

Zoboli - CD / defend - screenshot

Best defender we have, he wins pretty much everything in the air

Andelkovic - CD / defend or occasionaly LB full back / attack - screenshot

He started the season in couple with Zoboli, pretty well I must add. Then because of injury crisis on LB I had to move him there and then he got a 4 month injury, he is about to return now.

Perna - CD / defend - screenshot

Started the season as a sub, with time he managed to get a place in starting lineup, for from Zoboli or Andelkovic, he is very inconsistent too, can come from a 7.5 in one match to a 5.0 in the following one.

Gozzi - CD / defend - screenshot

A substitute, and not a good one, few matches I made him a starter he had repaid with mistakes and low rating.

Marinos RB full back / support - screenshot

Initially he struggled, but after a while he became one of my best players both forward and back.

Murru RB or LB full back / support - screenshot

A sub for both sides.

Calderoni LB full back / attack - screenshot

Arrived in January, as an alternative on the left, in the matches he played so far he seemed good defensivelly.

Pugliese LB full back / attack - screenshot

On field pretty much alike to Calderoni, however this is my problem with LBs, when attacking, they seem to get forward and in (imo) right places, however the team-mates just ignore them, hardly ever sending them the ball, eventhough they are uncovered etc.

Signori DMC anchor or deep lying playmaker / defend - screenshot

In the highlights he seems one of my key players, always ready to get the ball and serve it forward. But the number of goals we concede through the middle says that something is not working there.

Dalla Bona MC deep lying playmaker / support or central midfielder / support - screenshot

Another sure starter, he seems to be able either to create something interesting, or lose ball in an incredible way (lately mostly the latter).

Moretti MC advanced playmaker / attack or central midfielder / attack - screenshot

In the first part of season, he was by far my best player, constantly creating chances for my RW or striker. Lately he started to dribble too much resulting in unnecessary loses of ball so I tried him as a CM / attack, nothing has improved in terms of creating though.

Rueda MC deep laying playmaker / support or advanced playmaker / attack - screenshot

January arrival, more one for the future as 3/4 of my squad are loans, so far I tried him both MLC and MRC, in a couple of matches as DLP he nevor got over 6.0, while on ADP he gets better rating, yet shows nothing on the pitch.

Osuji MC central midfielder / attack, sometimes also as right winger / attack - screenshot

A sub in the midfield, he's natural on MR, but mostly I had used him as a sub for my MCR.

Lazarevic AMR winger or inside forward / attack - screenshot

He was dangerous mostly used as an inside forward, he is constantly picking up various injuries though.

Lepiller AML inside forward / support - screenshot

My big summer spending, he was what I thought we missed on AML and in the first few matches he actually proved it. Then he got a very long injury, recently he came back, but he doesn't do the difference anymore.

Piscitella AML inside forward / support - screenshot

Most likely not ready yet for Serie B level, but because of injuries he got much more playing time than I would've wished. He had some good matches though, it seems to me he'd be better suited to winger though.

Surraco AMR winger / attack - screenshot

When he is on his day, he is unstoppable. It's a pity that he doesn't have a good day very often.

Ardemagni deep lying attacker / support or attack and trequertista - screenshot

At the start of season he was scoring for fun, lately he scores less, but still he is pretty much the only person able to put it into the back of the net. Scored about 80-90% goals of our team.

Stanco deep lying attacker / support or attack - screenshot

Substitute of Ardemagni, he played only when injury forced our major striker out (and actually, I prefered even winger Lazarevic in attack, when possible).

I have never used a defensive strategy from the start of a game before so not entirely sure how that side of the game works. Personally I would use a counter style to give you that extra threat going forwards. Just a quick couple of things I have noticed though.

Your team passing is set to direct which will impact on the type of passes your players are trying to make, they will tend to give the ball away more as they are looking for the more difficult pass.

I would look to set your right winger to the role of a winger instead of an IF because he and the fullback, I'm guessing tend to take up the same space at the moment? This will also give your attack a different dimension and help your DLF to pick him out more easily. 4

One of your central midfielders needs to make sure they go past the DLF when he drops into space or he is very limited in the players he has to pass to. I'd also change the roles round in your midfield and put your CM as a DLP and your DM as a defensive midfielder. This will give you a better base to build from the back and give you extra protection in front of the back four.

When you say that most of your goals are conceded down the centre, are they conceded from crosses or centre backs being dragged out of position? With your right back set to attacking I'm guessing he is leaving space out wide which either drags your centre half across or makes your DM have to cover a lot of ground to cover for him?

Btw it's good to see someone come on and ask for help in such detail, it makes things much easier

[Soldatino]

@briz_lad thank you very much for your suggestions, mate! I won't get to the game until tomorrow or Friday, so I have some time to think about changes.

When you say that most of your goals are conceded down the centre, are they conceded from crosses or centre backs being dragged out of position? With your right back set to attacking I'm guessing he is leaving space out wide which either drags your centre half across or makes your DM have to cover a lot of ground to cover for him?

It's the latter case, most typically both of my central defenders are after one player, which opens space to another one, who scores easily. I was trying my luck with tight marking and/or closing down on strikers OI, I will give up on those for now, to see how this changes.

My RB is set to support, I will try to check out highlights of past matches, to see about the defenders, DMC and full-backs positions in goals conceded in last 5-10 matches. Thanks!

[max787]

Cleon, you generally set your midfield up like this:

----DMd

DLPs---AVPa

However, when faced with a 2 man midfield (like the 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1) you often change the DM to a support role so that he can step into the midfield in order to take advantage of your numerical advantage. When you change the DM to a support role do you also change the DLP to a defend role in order to keep the defend, support, attack midfield balance?

This is what I generally tend to do against 2 man midfields but I'd like to know what you do.

Also, could someone explain the logic behind using the "play wider" and "exploit the middle" shouts against 2 man midfields?

Thanks

[Dan13L]

Also, could someone explain the logic behind using the "play wider" and "exploit the middle" shouts against 2 man midfields?

Thanks

I imagine this would stretch the play and allow enough space for you to then play through the 2 man midfield...

[lewis999]

@ Soldatino : Looking at your team instructions mate it looks very defensive and stiff. No roaming, no creative freedom and direct passing. Free it up a bit, your players are superior to most in your division so give them the license to dominate, maybe start on the standard strategy and if needs be up it to control or if you're sustaining a bit of pressure drop it to counter.

I would also suggest to start your game with some changes (maybe more expressive and at least default passing) so it moves the other teams around a bit. Your team roles and duties seem to be well balanced so it looks like you're setting them up individually to be creative and cut through the defences but your team instructions are limiting that. I would press more as well so you can get the ball back off the poorer teams and put them under pressure.

Start games with no shouts and add in a few each match or depending on the situation. If you add too much at the start of the game without having a concrete idea on what you want to see (Like Cleon did) then the tactic you created is really being changed everywhere.

[XenoExclusive]

Sorry if this post is a little nonsensical, I'm a tad inebriated.

I'm making some steady progress on my issues after a re-read (phew), so a lot of my previous problems are close to being solved. Still one serious problem though. The Treq.

As I stated above, I am using Mata as my Treq. The perfect Treq. Especially with folks like Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar and Hazard on the wings cutting inside. But I just CAN NOT get him involved. His passing is solid when he gets the ball. Never loses the ball. But he just never gets involved. His average amount of passes per game is 32, with 82% completion. After 14 games (I know, not an enormous amount) he has 1 goal and ZERO assists. It's crazy.

Obviously this is completely my fault. It's definitely a tactic thing, but I just can not for the live of me figure out why. He either seems a little too far forward of the IFs (could be due to an unfortunate PPM), or when he gets the ball deep, the IFs are hanging out far too far away to receive a realistic pass. Suggestions?

EDIT: I tend to change my IFs duties between A and S depending on the oppositions formations. I tend to push up every game.

[Soldatino]

@ Soldatino : Looking at your team instructions mate it looks very defensive and stiff. No roaming, no creative freedom and direct passing. Free it up a bit, your players are superior to most in your division so give them the license to dominate, maybe start on the standard strategy and if needs be up it to control or if you're sustaining a bit of pressure drop it to counter.

I would also suggest to start your game with some changes (maybe more expressive and at least default passing) so it moves the other teams around a bit. Your team roles and duties seem to be well balanced so it looks like you're setting them up individually to be creative and cut through the defences but your team instructions are limiting that. I would press more as well so you can get the ball back off the poorer teams and put them under pressure.

Start games with no shouts and add in a few each match or depending on the situation. If you add too much at the start of the game without having a concrete idea on what you want to see (Like Cleon did) then the tactic you created is really being changed everywhere.

Thank you very much for the ideas! So you are saying my biggest problem might be, that I "have locked" my players in way too rigid and passive cage?

Tonight I'll finally get to the game, I'm considering following changes:

Balanced / standard

Shorter passing

Creative freedom for now default

Closing down more pressing

Tackling default

Marking zonal

Drill crosses

Roaming on default

The players roles and duties I will keep more or less untouched.

For now I will avoid any shouts and OI at the start of the match, just to see how do things work out, possibly changing that during matches.

[max787]

I imagine this would stretch the play and allow enough space for you to then play through the 2 man midfield...

Thank you

[lewis999]

Thank you very much for the ideas! So you are saying my biggest problem might be, that I "have locked" my players in way too rigid and passive cage?

Tonight I'll finally get to the game, I'm considering following changes:

Balanced / standard

Shorter passing

Creative freedom for now default

Closing down more pressing

Tackling default

Marking zonal

Drill crosses

Roaming on default

The players roles and duties I will keep more or less untouched.

For now I will avoid any shouts and OI at the start of the match, just to see how do things work out, possibly changing that during matches.

Kind of yeah, just free it up a bit and your players will exert their dominance on other teams, especially as they are dominant stat wise.

[vkastanas]

Quick question: If I choose "Attack" as a player duty (let's say for a central mid) and then go to his individual orders tick mentality and drag it back to the left side of the slider, what will he do in the field?

[ricardomac]

Quick question: If I choose "Attack" as a player duty (let's say for a central mid) and then go to his individual orders > tick mentality and > drag it back down the left side of the slider, what will he do in the field?

If I'm not mistaken, and I might be, he will not be as adventurous as he would with an attacking mentality. And even if you change his duty his mentality will always be the same, since ticked orders are not afected by shouts, nor TC changes in duty.

[Soldatino]

Kind of yeah, just free it up a bit and your players will exert their dominance on other teams, especially as they are dominant stat wise.

I was fired :-/ The changes helped though, also in terms of football displayed, it was much nicer to watch. First match I managed to draw away against a strong side 2-2 and then I beat another good team 3-1 at home. However this win I have paid costly by having two key central midfielders injured, replacements were much bellow of their level - following three loses and the sacking.

I suffered a lot against 3-4-3, and even more against 4-1-2-1-2, could I have done something using the shouts? And goals conceded are still coming through the middle, basically a player goes around DMC, one or both DCs and unchallenged scores. Is there something I could do about that?

[lewis999]

I was fired :-/ The changes helped though, also in terms of football displayed, it was much nicer to watch. First match I managed to draw away against a strong side 2-2 and then I beat another good team 3-1 at home. However this win I have paid costly by having two key central midfielders injured, replacements were much bellow of their level - following three loses and the sacking.

I suffered a lot against 3-4-3, and even more against 4-1-2-1-2, could I have done something using the shouts? And goals conceded are still coming through the middle, basically a player goes around DMC, one or both DCs and unchallenged scores. Is there something I could do about that?

Against 3-4-3's if you have 4 defenders it's a good idea to use zonal marking as other wise man marking will mean they have 1 free. 4-1-2-1-2 I would of used "play narrow" and "exploit the flanks".

[vkastanas]

I have played all my mtaches with this tactic:

A total of 7 matches

Why my tactic familiarity looks like this?

You can find details of my experiment [thread=347753]here![/thread]

[Azza2306]

Hi Cleon

I have attached 2 screen shots of my 2 tactics that i use with my preffered start 11. I am trying to figure out what strategy to play with each one but cant seem to get it working as well as I would like. I use the following shouts

- Retain Possession

- Play to Feet

- Run at Defence

- Work Ball in to Box

- Hassle Opponents

- Get Stuck In

I am dominating possession getting a lot of shots but not scoring a lot, being told by my Asst Man that we are dominating but our finishing is letting us down. I also used Push up but was getting caught on the counter especially against lesser teams.

I am after some feedback and any ideas you may have on how to perfect what I have. I also want to thank you for the tactic in the OP after looking at it I felt that we had the same kind of ideas about the football we want to play so you will notice my 451 is the same as your op.

Look forward to hearing from you

[hursty2]

I've just had a game in which I had 60% possession but failed to produce many chances. What can make a tactic that much more potent? Shouts or an adjustment of a particular player role?