This Will Be It For Me - An answer needed please SI

[geordiebird]

Already posted about Second Season Syndrome or whatever this is that's going on?

It had happened in EVERY save i've had so far and is even more frustrating than the Match Engine, so much so that i quit the saves because there was no rhyme nor reason for what was happening?

I'm now in my second season of another save and with 30 games played i thought i'd beaten SSS this time, but suddenly its happening again and its absolutely ridiculous!

I first noticed that my wins were getting narrower and narrower, then they were turning into draws and now into defeats, the thing is, that would be absolutely fine BUT there has been no drop in performance, which is EXACTLY what was happening in my previous saves.

For instance, i'm having 15-25 shots, about a quarter from distance, around 3 or 4 ccc's and 3 or 4 half chances a game as was usual, but now suddenly struggling to score and sick of having to watch us miss open goals from 2 yards out.

On the other hand the AI are scoring from either every single half chance, or this favourite from the last few games Well struck effort from distance which deflected past the goalkeeper (AI average 80% of all shots from distance)

I haven't posted this in the Tactics and Training Forum, because there is absolutely no way that this can be tactical, the games are practically identical to the previous season and three quarters, my players morale was/is still high, players are no more nervous or cocky than before, but at some point in every second season we go through a run of these games that we could and should be winning very comfortably, but somehow instead coming away with nothing??????

This is beyond frustrating, its a game breaker for me and i'm not being over dramatic, its really that serious. At the moment i have the game playing in the background on its fastest speed, as now i just want to get every game over with asap and i'm about ready to quit yet again.

Please understand, i have no issue with losing, or even losing games i should have won, as long as its not game after game in such ridiculous circumstances, i'd rather be struggling in a relegation fight but getting the results i deserve win, lose or draw, than having to watch what's going on in yet another one of my saved games.

Give me a clue SI or someone who's been there, or has some idea what's going on???

Thanks

[Neil Brock]

Without wanting to be a massive cliché, it's your tactics.

Well, it sort of is. Basically as you progress in a game and your status rises (say from a relegation candiate in the Prem to a European contention side) teams will adapt. Where they may have come to yours and played an expansive attacking open game, now they're more likely to sit deep and play on the counter. As teams interpretations of your strength and tactics change, you need to change too to take this into account.

There is no 'let's make the AI suddenly win' code within the game. It does not exist. You say 'there is absolutely no way this can be tactical' - I can assure you it most certainly will be.

[geordiebird]

Without wanting to be a massive cliché, it's your tactics.

Well, it sort of is. Basically as you progress in a game and your status rises (say from a relegation candiate in the Prem to a European contention side) teams will adapt. Where they may have come to yours and played an expansive attacking open game, now they're more likely to sit deep and play on the counter. As teams interpretations of your strength and tactics change, you need to change too to take this into account.

There is no 'let's make the AI suddenly win' code within the game. It does not exist. You say 'there is absolutely no way this can be tactical' - I can assure you it most certainly will be.

I'm sorry Neil but if it is tactical, then i may as well stop playing to be honest.

If i was suddenly getting outplayed then what you say makes perfect sense, but to carry on dominating, creating easier and better chances than the opposition but suddenly not being able to win or even score is pathetic to be honest and the game by now should be much more realistic than that.

I have said nothing so far about the new ME, but i have to mention now that its hard enough playing FM with the state that its in, without the issue i have already mentioned.

[marky-mark]

I remember reading on here about someone complaining that why can they have 10 shots on target and 3 ccc but not score yet the opposition can have 1 shot on target 1 ccc and score (90% of the time). The reply was it was the users tactics and the Ai must be creatng better quality chances. I personal belive it's the ME. I know it's not the same as second season syndrome but i'm about to throw the towel in with FM13 because of this. If i have Falco up front and he needs 3 ccc's to score against a pish keeper i don't understand how Adam Le Frondra can score against a world class keeper with one, and then Falcao needing another 3 in the next game but Grant Holt only needing one it's f**ked up in my opinion.

[Guest]

Yeah, I see your point, if the AI was adapting to your tactics then that would surely impact on your stats..

Everything is this game cannot be tactics related.. the game is more complex than that I imagine.. so why is it always the tactics that are considered to blame?

I think its more to do with the balance of the underlining calculations at work..

In real life there is no true explanation why teams normally do better at home than away. Its the same players but somehow home advantage plays apart

Obviously something is in the code to reflect this somehow.. make it harder to win way from home and nothing to do with players or tactics..

Reputation, form, pressure, luck, shocks, things that cant be explained or calculated.. I guess all that is coded into the game mechanics somewhere. So somebody has to invent a code to reflect the unexplainable, which I guess is impossible, or everything would be explainable by some sort of calculation.

[haunted1234]

the AI is adapting to tactics?

[geordiebird]

Yeah, I see your point, if the AI was adapting to your tactics then that would surely impact on your stats..

Exactly, thanks.

I have kept quiet and not moaned about the masses of issues in FM13 so far, but this one is an absolute game breaker imo(if it IS tactical that is?)

[BiggusD]

I remember reading on here about someone complaining that why can they have 10 shots on target and 3 ccc but not score yet the opposition can have 1 shot on target 1 ccc and score (90% of the time). The reply was it was the users tactics and the Ai must be creatng better quality chances. I personal belive it's the ME. I know it's not the same as second season syndrome but i'm about to throw the towel in with FM13 because of this. If i have Falco up front and he needs 3 ccc's to score against a pish keeper i don't understand how Adam Le Frondra can score against a world class keeper with one, and then Falcao needing another 3 in the next game but Grant Holt only needing one it's f**ked up in my opinion.

They aren't creating better quality chances. They score almost exclusively on lol-moment defensive howlers, own-goals, penalties out-of-the-blue, random corners and free-kicks and fantastic long-shots. They can actually win quite easily with several goals without ever having more than one player in the final 3/4ths of the football field. I say "they" but the human user can do this too. If you manage to play destructively enough and have patience enough and keep the zero for long enough you are almost certain to get a free goal towards the end.

The only way to overcome this when you encounter a good team playing very defensively against you, is to play more defensively yourself. Deny them those counter-attacks, max time-wasting so you don't rush things. Take out their threats. Make sure that their defensive midfielder, if they have one, is marked specifically by one of your strikers so that they don't get to roll the ball between each other inside your half so easily. Mark their full-backs with your wingers. Just destroy everything they try, and maybe it is you who get that random goal instead. My experience is that you do more often than not. I rarely score no goals when playing ultradefensively.

[Guest]

Theres something in the game code that can cause your form to dip at the end of the season.. it tells you it does in the hints. (or it used 2) Running out of steam, pressure, nerves, whatever. Tactics I guess become redundant if you start suffering from that.

I remember in 2009 I won all my home games comfortably, yet lost all my away games. Same tactics, same players. How can that be tactics?

Well, you cant use the same tactics away from home obviously.. will be the answer, but why not?

Same coulour grass, same amount of players, How does the game determine the effects of playing away.

What is put in the game code to reflect its an away game.. expectation? A Home team boost? An away team hinderance. Tactics dont really play apart in that.

If they decided an away game should be 10% less winable than a home game thats not tactics.. Its underlining code creating it. And whose to say they got the 10% right cos there is no formula to any of it.

I would say the formula was wrong that year as it doesnt happen that teams destroy other teams at home yet consistantly lose every away game with no explanation..

All they can do is take the law of averages of what happens in reality, teams less likely to win at home and make it reflect that in the game with some calculation which ignore tactics and ingame stats.

[Welshace]

"What is put in the game code to reflect its an away game.. expectation? A Home team boost? An away team hinderance. Tactics dont really play apart in that."

The reason it plays a part is because the AI teams change the way they approach the game when playing away, so the scenario shifts and your tactics aren't able to counter it without a change yourself. There is no code with a simple handicap for playing away.

[Serial Killer]

SI had to make the game harder as FM2012 was far too easy (Within 7 seasons I had won the Champs League twice, and I started with Wakehurst in Northern Ireland!) However, they've taken the easy way out. Rather than improving the AI team play, all they've done is increase the AI's goals to shots ratio, provided the AI keepers with bionic arms and slipped the player's CB's a happy pill. I'm currently 4th in the BSS with Tonbridge, so it's by no means impossible to have a good run of results, but it is much more difficult than before. I still dominate teams as I did in FM12, but now the opposition needs less chances to score.

[themadsheep2001]

SI had to make the game harder as FM2012 was far too easy (Within 7 seasons I had won the Champs League twice, and I started with Wakehurst in Northern Ireland!) However, they've taken the easy way out. Rather than improving the AI team play, all they've done is increase the AI's goals to shots ratio, provided the AI keepers with bionic arms and slipped the player's CB's a happy pill. I'm currently 4th in the BSS with Tonbridge, so it's by no means impossible to have a good run of results, but it is much more difficult than before. I still dominate teams as I did in FM12, but now the opposition needs less chances to score.

They haven't increased the AI goals to shot ratio, or any of that stuff. That isnt how the ME works.

[hluraven]

SI had to make the game harder as FM2012 was far too easy (Within 7 seasons I had won the Champs League twice, and I started with Wakehurst in Northern Ireland!) However, they've taken the easy way out. Rather than improving the AI team play, all they've done is increase the AI's goals to shots ratio, provided the AI keepers with bionic arms and slipped the player's CB's a happy pill. I'm currently 4th in the BSS with Tonbridge, so it's by no means impossible to have a good run of results, but it is much more difficult than before. I still dominate teams as I did in FM12, but now the opposition needs less chances to score.

Usual nonsense from you, the ME doesn't know the AI from the human, it plays with the tactics given from both sides and that is all.

[Loversleaper]

We've been having this discussion for years now. It is simply a case of the AI playing more defensively against you, so you have to know how to break down those tight/defensive teams - you can easily do this simply by using the Strategy system...

In the real world teams don't play the same if they were going to play home against Oldham and away to Barcelona, the TC offers all those options to get the best out of results...

[Neil Brock]

SI had to make the game harder as FM2012 was far too easy (Within 7 seasons I had won the Champs League twice, and I started with Wakehurst in Northern Ireland!) However, they've taken the easy way out. Rather than improving the AI team play, all they've done is increase the AI's goals to shots ratio, provided the AI keepers with bionic arms and slipped the player's CB's a happy pill. I'm currently 4th in the BSS with Tonbridge, so it's by no means impossible to have a good run of results, but it is much more difficult than before. I still dominate teams as I did in FM12, but now the opposition needs less chances to score.

Absolute nonsense I'm afraid.

[geordiebird]

We've been having this discussion for years now. It is simply a case of the AI playing more defensively against you, so you have to know how to break down those tight/defensive teams - you can easily do this simply by using the Strategy system...

In the real world teams don't play the same if they were going to play home against Oldham and away to Barcelona, the TC offers all those options to get the best out of results...

I'm sorry but that's utter rubbish and if it WERE true then FM would no longer be worth playing.

You cannot tell me that for instance, i have 20 shots every match, 5 ccc's and 5 half chances and the AI has 10 shots all from distance, but its ok for me to keep losing game after game because i didn't change strategy??? Does that really sound like a realistic game to you, seriously???

Crazy

[wwfan]

Absolute nonsense I'm afraid.

I've found it easier than FM12 thus far.

To the OP, it is a little more than your tactics. It is your management. If you want to repost the OP and a breakdown of your tactic in the tactics forum, I'm sure you'll get a lot of help. It is likely to be a combination of a relatively one-dimensional tactical approach, which, with an increased reputation and the onset of bad weather, begins to get bogged down without you having an idea of what to change to kick the team out of it. I would imagine you are unable to keep your players' morale up during a slump, which then makes things worse.

That you are playing through games as quickly as possible speaks volumes. You can't sort issues out without trying.

[Wiitastic]

Already posted about Second Season Syndrome or whatever this is that's going on?

It had happened in EVERY save i've had so far and is even more frustrating than the Match Engine, so much so that i quit the saves because there was no rhyme nor reason for what was happening?

I'm now in my second season of another save and with 30 games played i thought i'd beaten SSS this time, but suddenly its happening again and its absolutely ridiculous!

I first noticed that my wins were getting narrower and narrower, then they were turning into draws and now into defeats, the thing is, that would be absolutely fine BUT there has been no drop in performance, which is EXACTLY what was happening in my previous saves.

For instance, i'm having 15-25 shots, about a quarter from distance, around 3 or 4 ccc's and 3 or 4 half chances a game as was usual, but now suddenly struggling to score and sick of having to watch us miss open goals from 2 yards out.

On the other hand the AI are scoring from either every single half chance, or this favourite from the last few games Well struck effort from distance which deflected past the goalkeeper (AI average 80% of all shots from distance)

I haven't posted this in the Tactics and Training Forum, because there is absolutely no way that this can be tactical, the games are practically identical to the previous season and three quarters, my players morale was/is still high, players are no more nervous or cocky than before, but at some point in every second season we go through a run of these games that we could and should be winning very comfortably, but somehow instead coming away with nothing??????

This is beyond frustrating, its a game breaker for me and i'm not being over dramatic, its really that serious. At the moment i have the game playing in the background on its fastest speed, as now i just want to get every game over with asap and i'm about ready to quit yet again.

Please understand, i have no issue with losing, or even losing games i should have won, as long as its not game after game in such ridiculous circumstances, i'd rather be struggling in a relegation fight but getting the results i deserve win, lose or draw, than having to watch what's going on in yet another one of my saved games.

Give me a clue SI or someone who's been there, or has some idea what's going on???

Thanks

Do you even tweak your tactics or even have a 2nd or 3rd tactic as backup in cases like this? FM13 is very smart, well the AI is in regards to learning off your tactics quicker than in past versions of this great game. Learn to adapt dude. And if this is happening to ever single saved game of yours, why do you refuse to learn from the previous time?

And in the end your players don't score? well maybe this is something you need to teach them in the weekly training with Default Focus set to Attacking and maybe also Team Cohesion. Have you tried that yet? Maybe buy players that have a higher attribute for finishing, technique, first touch, composure, concentration and so on.

There are many factors why you are not succeeding in the 2nd season but to be honest, I don't even think you care anymore.

[Wiitastic]

I'm sorry Neil but if it is tactical, then i may as well stop playing to be honest.

If i was suddenly getting outplayed then what you say makes perfect sense, but to carry on dominating, creating easier and better chances than the opposition but suddenly not being able to win or even score is pathetic to be honest and the game by now should be much more realistic than that.

I have said nothing so far about the new ME, but i have to mention now that its hard enough playing FM with the state that its in, without the issue i have already mentioned.

You are kidding right ? in my mind the ME is more than fine, but maybe that is because in my 2nd season with Liverpool I am undefeated doing into late December.

[cruyff14]

Theres something in the game code that can cause your form to dip at the end of the season.. it tells you it does in the hints. (or it used 2) Running out of steam, pressure, nerves, whatever. Tactics I guess become redundant if you start suffering from that.

Ah this might explain why my Blackburn side limped over the finish line to win promotion and the championship the 2 wins out of my last 8 games 5 of which were defeats.

[eple]

Your opponents have changed the way they approach games against you, sitting deep and denying space. Your strikers are getting stressed after missing chances and they are feeling the pressure. It's going into a downward spiral but you can change that by changing the tactics and changing your man-management style.

[geordiebird]

I've found it easier than FM12 thus far.

To the OP, it is a little more than your tactics. It is your management. If you want to repost the OP and a breakdown of your tactic in the tactics forum, I'm sure you'll get a lot of help. It is likely to be a combination of a relatively one-dimensional tactical approach, which, with an increased reputation and the onset of bad weather, begins to get bogged down without you having an idea of what to change to kick the team out of it. I would imagine you are unable to keep your players' morale up during a slump, which then makes things worse.

That you are playing through games as quickly as possible speaks volumes. You can't sort issues out without trying.

I did start FM13 by changing strategy based on being home or away, who i was playing etc, etc, but it wasn't working and started to make little sense, plus, each time you change strategy the bar that shows how well your team has learned the tactic stops going up or decreases and you can only set up 3 tactics. So i soon started using a single basic in-game tactic and found that this worked.

I've had no problem with weather in any of my previous four "first seasons" so why should season 2 be any different?

I have little issue with morale as i do individual team talks and have always been a dab hand at keeping morale high, up to a point of course.

Oh and i wasn't playing through games quickly until a few games into the slump and remember i had already played 3 previous saves, all in which i was watching large portions of every game.

So i take it that there is no answer to the fact that performances remain the same and only results change then? you realise your basically saying that FM13 is an atrociously poor game if that's the way it shows that your doing something wrong?

Sorry if i sound a bit grumpy, but you made a few assumptions there and none were true, plus, i'm actually doing very well in the game up to the point that this starts happening.

So can i just ask if you think the statement below is true of FM and is acceptable and/or realistic?

You cannot tell me that for instance, i have 20 shots every match, 5 ccc's and 5 half chances and the AI has 10 shots all from distance, but its ok for me to keep losing game after game because i didn't change strategy??? Does that really sound like a realistic game to you, seriously???

[Serial Killer]

Really? I don't think so. I've played half a season so far and I've ripped teams teams to pieces - just as I did on FM12 - in terms of possession, shots and CCCs. AI teams have, on average, a third or less of the shots that I have, just as they did on FM12. The only difference now is that the AI teams seem to score much, much more often than before. I've lost count of the numbers of times I've had 20 shots to the opposition's 3, and ended up drawing (or even losing sometimes). Oh, and yes I have analysed every goal and every game.

I have so much evidence of non-league keepers pulling off incredible saves it's laughable. From my 25-odd games so far I have witnessed at least 20-30 world-class saves from supposdly terrible goalkeepers. Literally impossible saves where their arms seem to grow a metre longer. Oh, and yes I have anlysed every save.

With regards to the defending from the CBs, I am lost for words. Truly. But then you only have to pay a visit to YouTube to see so many examples of that for yourself.

I deal in facts I'm afraid, and from where I'm standing the evidence against SI is pretty damning.

[wwfan]

Fine. I won't help. It's not your fault and the game is terrible/out to get you. Everything you've done is 100% perfect.

Nothing you have said has even vaguely contradicted my post, yet all my assumptions are wrong? Have you not hit bad form as the winter weather kicks in in your second season?

Unless you accept that you are the cause of the bad form, then there's absolutely nothing anybody can do for you. Blindly ranting on about changing strategy helps nobody, especially when I didn't even mention it.

[Seule]

I like my second season syndrome, first season was full of inconsistency, leaking late goals and frustration, still managed to finish 4th in the bundesliga, second season, top of the league just after winter break in January.

There's a lot of factors that can change things, including team meetings, pre-season fitness training etc. I wouldn't necessarily put everything on stats, I have a solid defence that usually gives up 20 shots a game at the moment, 18 of those are usually blazed from 30 yards out cause they couldn't get into my box, and I don't joke when I say this is a defence that gave up the least amount of goals in the league last season.

If you're getting 20 shots a match and creating 5 ccc's and 5 half chances, good luck to you, I haven't been able to do that in any game yet, except beating up on minnows in friendlies.

Also if you stop raging for a while, and go look up posts by PaulC you'll note that there is meant to be an update to the ME again in the near future, perhaps that will soothe you.

[stewpot01]

Without wanting to be a massive cliché, it's your tactics.

I have to agree with that. I have easily adopted around a dozen different tactics and have rotated them throughout the season and have never played any one type more than 4 times. I usually go by the weather conditions and my scouts reports on the weakness of the opposition that I can exploit by playing a certain way. As a result I won L2 and lost only 3 games. The next season I tweaked the tactics slightly and went straight up again, this time losing only 5. So for me the tactics does play a big part.

[zeke]

I think it is a bit early to talk "tactics". There certainly are things that do not work and some things that do work.

I would not bother too much with the tactics though before the ME patch is out.

...and yes it seems that AI likes to park the bus a lot in this version of the FM.

[geordiebird]

Fine. I won't help. It's not your fault and the game is terrible/out to get you. Everything you've done is 100% perfect.

Nothing you have said has even vaguely contradicted my post, yet all my assumptions are wrong? Have you not hit bad form as the winter weather kicks in in your second season?

Unless you accept that you are the cause of the bad form, then there's absolutely nothing anybody can do for you. Blindly ranting on about changing strategy helps nobody, especially when I didn't even mention it.

I never said the game was out to get me, i asked why i can go on a run of games in a row where i create loads of changes(including ccc's) the AI none or very few and suddenly start losing/drawing/not scoring and that if this is how the game is supposed to show you that your doing something wrong tactically then its really not worth playing, as i thought it was supposed to be a least a little bit realistic

No need to get your knickers in a twist, but if i had no issues with weather in my four lots of first seasons, how can it suddenly be an issue in season 2?

How i can be blamed for my tactics/management when i'm creating loads of chances against none by the AI and losing over and over??? surely that's an issue with FM???

[geordiebird]

I cannot understand why people are posting things i must be doing wrong? rather than look at the bigger issue here.

Lets face it, if it IS a simple tactical issue(i'm hoping its not because the game will then be pointless) then producing game after game where i completely dominate and make all the best chances yet lose is not my idea of a realistic football management game, how can anyone find that even mildly satisfying???

Remember i WAS enjoying the game up to this point, so i'm not just ranting.

[wwfan]

I never said the game was out to get me, i asked why i can go on a run of games in a row where i create loads of changes(including ccc's) the AI none or very few and suddenly start losing/drawing/not scoring and that if this is how the game is supposed to show you that your doing something wrong tactically then its really not worth playing, as i thought it was supposed to be a least a little bit realistic

No need to get your knickers in a twist, but if i had no issues with weather in my four lots of first seasons, how can it suddenly be an issue in season 2?

How i can be blamed for my tactics/management when i'm creating loads of chances against none by the AI and losing over and over??? surely that's an issue with FM???

The weather is not so much of a factor is season one because your reputation was worse, meaning you were still doing well by exploiting the gaps an attacking AI left for you. With a higher reputation, the AI sits back, plugging those gaps. Bad weather bogs down pitches, making it far more difficult to create good chances. Your tactic will be perfect for a mid-rep team, but will have no penetration against deep-lying teams in bad conditions. You might get a few results because a player does something exceptional, but eventually you will lose. If morale drops, you can then slump, meaning the tactic becomes even worse. I'd imagine you then panic and try to change formation/strategies, making things worse again.

We've seen the same problems in FM after FM. We've had the same arguments thrown back at us when we try to help. I'm losing patience with people who refuse to accept it is something they are doing, especially after all the abuse I've received in the last month. The above paragraph is the logic. There are multiple ways to solve the problem, but you need to come to the tactics forum and explain your tactic for you to come up with the solution that best fits you. If you post on GD, you'll get the ranting fringe that shouts abuse at anybody who tries to help ruining your thread, making you think the game is at fault. You'll then never come up with a solution.

[BiggusD]

I cannot understand why people are posting things i must be doing wrong? rather than look at the bigger issue here.

Lets face it, if it IS a simple tactical issue(i'm hoping its not because the game will then be pointless) then producing game after game where i completely dominate and make all the best chances yet lose is not my idea of a realistic football management game, how can anyone find that even mildly satisfying???

Remember i WAS enjoying the game up to this point, so i'm not just ranting.

It has nothing to do with satisfaction or enjoyment. It has only to do with fact. The fact is that defensive counter-tactics are more efficient in the current FM13 ME than attacking domination tactics. Until the patch comes out nothing you do will change this. So either you put the game away until it is out, or you adapt to the situation, since continuing to press continue in this game hoping that the next match you will dominate and win with as much as you deserve is outright lunacy.

[zeke]

This ME seems much more drastic how it handles things and changes. Personally think it is not flexible enough and even minor things can change how the game turns out.

Whether it is actually intentional or something else well that is anyones guess but definately it is touch and go.

I only watch games as long as I see that the players are moving around sensible enough than commentary only so might not be the best judge of this... but the CC chances thing is odd indeed.

Those CC chances are not always those. I think people are putting too much value on those numbers since at least my experience is that many times poor chances end up being CC.

You actually can have better chances and still CC shows 0! It has been that way for some versions now.

Also maybe it is about time that there would be OFFICIAL manual that describes what those sliders etc actually do. Those things has been an cult of their own for years now.

[yifanwang99]

I won't say it's a 'tactical' issue if you are creating the chances and outplaying the opponent. But there's definitely an issue with your man management. Who's been missing all these so called 'clear cut chances'? Is he naturally a good finisher? If he's not why are all these chances falling to the wrong person? If he is why is he not performing up to scratch? How about encourage/criticize him followed by a 'expect a performance'/no pressure team talk? How about dropping him and give somebody else a go? Unfortunately you didn't provide any information, OP.

If football is a game where having more possession and chances equates to victory, then Barcelona would've won 99.9% of their matches. But that clearly is not the case. Liverpool played decently both last season and this season, frequently outplaying their opponents yet frequently ended up on the wrong end of a result. OK, with the current ME, due to the 'final third closing down' bug, smaller teams do get a slight 'preferential treatment' by the MM but that applies to both you and every other big teams. Well, I know you probably won't believe it, but the ME can't even distinguish the difference between an AI and a human team as the 'human' player can easily take over every single team in the league if he wishes to.

[Ginola79]

As a big basher of this years FM, I gotta say please stop making the ME to blame for all the losses you get. Ive played since CM2 - I have approx 400-700 hours gametime for FM09,10,11,12 every season - this year Ive seen that Tactics do matter ALOT more - ppl need to go away from 1 tactic wonders and try think like real managers - and I welcome this change by all my Football heart!!!

Still the ME has some major buggy stuff going on, evry1 with 2 eyes should see that pretty fast by watching 4-5 full matches - bugs who can make you win or lose and are just not enjoyable to watch at all... Its pretty crap tbh

That said I still have faith in these guys making it better - my only gripe this year really is - test BETTER;test MORE Its good for us, you and the game...

Biggest potential yet in all the years ive played the game for sure!

[wwfan]

As a big basher of this years FM, I gotta say please stop making the ME to blame for all the losses you get. Ive played since CM2 - I have approx 400-700 hours gametime for FM09,10,11,12 every season - this year Ive seen that Tactics do matter ALOT more - ppl need to go away from 1 tactic wonders and try think like real managers - and I welcome this change by all my Football heart!!!

Still the ME has some major buggy stuff going on, evry1 with 2 eyes should see that pretty fast by watching 4-5 full matches - bugs who can make you win or lose and are just not enjoyable to watch at all... Its pretty crap tbh

That said I still have faith in these guys making it better - my only gripe this year really is - test BETTER;test MORE Its good for us, you and the game...

Biggest potential yet in all the years ive played the game for sure!

Well said. And before anybody says 'players matter more than tactics', they do as long as the tactic is at least sound. If it has horrible deficiencies, then it will get battered and deservedly so. The problem lots of people are having is that one-dimensional, illogical tactics that did do well in FM11-12 (due to the lack of collision detection) are getting found out in FM13. All it takes is a slight mind adjustment and everything will be rosy again.

[geordiebird]

The weather is not so much of a factor is season one because your reputation was worse, meaning you were still doing well by exploiting the gaps an attacking AI left for you. With a higher reputation, the AI sits back, plugging those gaps. Bad weather bogs down pitches, making it far more difficult to create good chances. Your tactic will be perfect for a mid-rep team, but will have no penetration against deep-lying teams in bad conditions. You might get a few results because a player does something exceptional, but eventually you will lose. If morale drops, you can then slump, meaning the tactic becomes even worse. I'd imagine you then panic and try to change formation/strategies, making things worse again.

We've seen the same problems in FM after FM. We've had the same arguments thrown back at us when we try to help. I'm losing patience with people who refuse to accept it is something they are doing, especially after all the abuse I've received in the last month. The above paragraph is the logic. There are multiple ways to solve the problem, but you need to come to the tactics forum and explain your tactic for you to come up with the solution that best fits you. If you post on GD, you'll get the ranting fringe that shouts abuse at anybody who tries to help ruining your thread, making you think the game is at fault. You'll then never come up with a solution.

Wow, you may need to chill out a bit, have i given you any abuse?

Can you just tell me if the statement below is true?

You cannot tell me that for instance, i have 20 shots every match, 5 ccc's and 5 half chances and the AI has 10 shots all from distance, but its ok for me to keep losing game after game because i didn't change strategy??? Does that really sound like a realistic game to you, seriously???

If it is, then i can save you the time of trying to help because i will just stop playing, as it will mean that FM is no longer worth playing, i cannot think of anything less realistic than this.

[yifanwang99]

Well said. And before anybody says 'players matter more than tactics', they do as long as the tactic is at least sound. If it has horrible deficiencies, then it will get battered and deservedly so. The problem lots of people are having is that one-dimensional, illogical tactics that did do well in FM11-12 (due to the lack of collision detection) are getting found out in FM13. All it takes is a slight mind adjustment and everything will be rosy again.

I don't think it's his tactics if he's continuously outplaying his opponent. Although I do question his man-management of not finding out why/dropping the guys that are missing those chances. On the other hand, I still strongly believe that in all past versions of FM, chances were being created yet wasted too easily. I think it would be easier to swallow if fewer chances are created but those that are created are converted.

[Ginola79]

Well said. And before anybody says 'players matter more than tactics', they do as long as the tactic is at least sound. If it has horrible deficiencies, then it will get battered and deservedly so. The problem lots of people are having is that one-dimensional, illogical tactics that did do well in FM11-12 (due to the lack of collision detection) are getting found out in FM13. All it takes is a slight mind adjustment and everything will be rosy again.

Excactly - just look at QPR irl atm - they bought a shitton of suppossedly quality players, but Mister Hughes is doing a very bad tactical and maybe player management job - the best players worked in the older FMs but now we need to use our brain too

[Ackter]

the AI is adapting to tactics?

No, it's adapting to your reputation and ability.

[MacZidane]

Can you post screenshots of the match stats from your games? As well as your tactics?

[yifanwang99]

Wow, you may need to chill out a bit, have i given you any abuse?

Can you just tell me if the statement below is true?

You cannot tell me that for instance, i have 20 shots every match, 5 ccc's and 5 half chances and the AI has 10 shots all from distance, but its ok for me to keep losing game after game because i didn't change strategy??? Does that really sound like a realistic game to you, seriously???

If it is, then i can save you the time of trying to help because i will just stop playing, as it will mean that FM is no longer worth playing, i cannot think of anything less realistic than this.

There's no need to get wound up about a game. It's a game, your million pound job isn't really on the line. My guess, you are managing your favorite team and you are taking it from a fan's perspective instead of a manager's perspective. Football managers has to deal with the problem you describe, IRL, all day, every day. And unfortunately for them they can't blame IRL physics (although they quite often, erm, blame the referee or accusing the opposition of playing 'anti-football').

Just take Chelsea's route to the CL win for example, against Barcelona, they scored three goals from three shots on target, had 15% of the possession and played a 11-0-0 formation for 95% of the time. In contrast, Barcelona had a ridiculous amount of chances including a missed, Messi, penalty. In the final, Bayen had 70% of the ball, created all the chances, missed a Robben penalty, and Chelsea scored via a, guess what, near post corner. If that has happened in your game against you in FM you probably will have thrown your computer against a wall.

[zeke]

Well said. And before anybody says 'players matter more than tactics', they do as long as the tactic is at least sound. If it has horrible deficiencies, then it will get battered and deservedly so. The problem lots of people are having is that one-dimensional, illogical tactics that did do well in FM11-12 (due to the lack of collision detection) are getting found out in FM13. All it takes is a slight mind adjustment and everything will be rosy again.

...maybe but the swings in the game are still drastic though. I mean changing sliders 2-3 clicks can ruin your "tactic" and that is not realistic at all.

The park the bus thing is too over powered though and can easily see why people are getting frustrated. If you gain possesion of 65-70% than you definately should be winning much more than losing and that is not showing in the game. The leaky ME currently does not help with that issue currently.

I'am not having problems breaking those down mostly at all but at first those AI tactics seemed excessive enough.

People who are struggling I would say 1) do NOT use TC prefer the original tactics. 2) Watch games initially and focus how your players are moving. (Keep in mind that defensively this ME is very much work in progress).. but once you get that sorted it really does not matter that much when the engine is updated. If after patch something seems odd watch again and see if the movement has changed.

The day I'am forced to watch full games in FM is the day I'am gone for good. I don't even bother with shouts... and yes it possible to use 1 tactic on your games and not be bothered.

Currently I would say though that some logical tactics simply do not work or are hazardous due to the sensible ME. I think the "slight adjustments" are too powerful as said.

Good luck with anyone struggling...and who knows maybe I even bother to start my own tactic thread in that forum someday. It has been years since I have done it... than again RL is much more busy nowdays than it used to be.

[geordiebird]

Can you post screenshots of the match stats from your games? As well as your tactics?

If i do that it will be in the Tactics an Training Forum.

But if i'm told the bold statement i posted is true then i'm just quitting, i honestly don't understand how anyone can find the game playable under those circumstances and i'd be embarrassed if i had anything to do with FM.

[wwfan]

Wow, you may need to chill out a bit, have i given you any abuse?

Can you just tell me if the statement below is true?

You cannot tell me that for instance, i have 20 shots every match, 5 ccc's and 5 half chances and the AI has 10 shots all from distance, but its ok for me to keep losing game after game because i didn't change strategy??? Does that really sound like a realistic game to you, seriously???

If it is, then i can save you the time of trying to help because i will just stop playing, as it will mean that FM is no longer worth playing, i cannot think of anything less realistic than this.

Stop with the same question. It's pointless. In every FM, people have asked it. In every FM my answer is the same: It doesn't happen to me, therefore it doesn't have to happen to you. If it is, it is something you are doing, which you need to solve. Now, we can go back and forth on this as long as you like without you getting anywhere or you can post in the tactical forum and learn how to solve the problem. All I want is for you to enjoy the game. That will never happen if you continue making posts like this in GD.

I am being very direct because if I don't somebody else will post something that sounds plausible to you, yet is fundamentally wrong. Listen to that for even a second and you will not solve your problem. What is happening to you is 100% your fault. There is a solution. You just have to work it out. The best way to do that is to post in the tactics forum, detailing your problem and your tactical setup. I don't see that happening if you continue to listen to GD opinion, or think your question has anything to do with anything outside of your specific way of playing FM.

[AjaxNo1]

The defensive side is a nightmare for me but will keep plugging away

Think any footy manager takes getting used to as the subtle differences for the one you have been playing for a year throw you but this one does seem harder to get your players to do the basics right

[wwfan]

...maybe but the swings in the game are still drastic though. I mean changing sliders 2-3 clicks can ruin your "tactic" and that is not realistic at all.

2-3 slider clicks are a total irrelevancy.

People who are struggling I would say 1) do NOT use TC prefer the original tactics.

Worst advice possible. So many people are struggling because they don't know what they are doing in terms of developing a holistic TC tactic or in moving the sliders. Although you might be a whizz at slider manipulation, most people aren't and **** things up even worse.

Learning how to develop a holistic TC tactic/strategy takes no more than a few minutes thought and the discarding of a hubristic attitude. Doing that also means you'll never, ever struggle with any ME ever again.

[Ackter]

My best advice would be to:

a) using the TC, pick a formation that suits your squad

b) set it up as balanced and general as possible

c) leave all roles on default for now

d) play a few matches, looking at each player and the space between them

e) fiddle with the roles to cover that space as best as possible (you'll have to compromise somewhat between how you want to play and how your players can play)

f) start fiddling with the team mentality, depending on who you're facing

This should be possible to do within the pre-season to a point where you'll be in a decent spot to properly tune your tactic when the real matches start

[zeke]

2-3 slider clicks are a total irrelevancy.

Worst advice possible. So many people are struggling because they don't know what they are doing in terms of developing a holistic TC tactic or in moving the sliders. Although you might be a whizz at slider manipulation, most people aren't and **** things up even worse.

Learning how to develop a holistic TC tactic/strategy takes no more than a few minutes thought and the discarding or a hubristic attitude. Doing that also means you'll never, ever struggle with any ME ever again.

Actually few click can make massive diffrence in the way your players move around the pitch. You know it.. and I know it. It has been that way for ages now. That is why those things should be made more clear since even the names of them are misleading. I know you are "head of the development in that regards" and maybe you could post a sticky what those actually do.

As for TC.. it is far worse than using preset tactics that you can choose from the ingame. I would much more recommend them over TC since with TC you can make fundamentally big mistakes.

I would urge people loading preset tactic.. make minor adjustments.. watch the game to see how it does impact your matches. Than take it one step at an time... might take few loading up and sometimes you get something wrong but eventually people get there.

Thus I was not preferring "slider manipulation" with that one.

[La Furia Roja]

... It doesn't happen to me, therefore it doesn't have to happen to you. If it is, it is something you are doing, which you need to solve...

100% spot on. I do not have this issue either, so there is no reason the game itself is doing it.

I had the issue where I was losing all the time in February/March in my offline save, but did not have the issue in my online save, so I sat back and looked for a reason..What was different...?

Then it hit me, offline (I play in Germany) I have a 1.5 month winter break from end of December until February, players were not sharp they were tired etc, so I changed my training in the lead up to concentrate on fitness and then when they came back I did the same. Online is Spain so I don't have this!

Have not had the issue since, was solely down to me not adapting to the game

[wwfan]

Actually few click can make massive diffrence in the way your players move around the pitch. You know it.. and I know it. It has been that way for ages now. That is why those things should be made more clear since even the names of them are misleading. I know you are head of the development in that regards and maybe you could post a sticky what those actually do.

I'm not the head of anything. I never use sliders anymore. I find them totally distracting. Everything you need to know abut how they work is displayed through the TC settings. However, I don't think it is necessary for anybody to know how they work if they embrace the dynamics of the TC.

As for TC.. it is far worse than using preset tactics that you can choose from the ingame. I would much more recommend them over TC since with TC you can make fundamentally big mistakes.

All the preset tactics are TC tactics. I have no idea what you mean by this.