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Senegal's Arsenal Thread 2012/2013 : featuring positive negativity

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Sy13

Sy13

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Haha, proved me wrong? Where? :D

Diaby's situation in 2009 was considerably better than it is now. He'd had some injury troubles but was mostly in the team. In 2008/09 and 2009/10 he made nearly 30 league appearances in each season, so the situation doesn't compare at all.

Dear me.

When he signed his contract extension his injury record was already poor. However, you reckon a player should prove their fitness before being offered a new deal. Are you going to continue flogging this horse?

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Glenn Wakeford

Glenn Wakeford

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Dear me.

When he signed his contract extension his injury record was already poor. However, you reckon a player should prove their fitness before being offered a new deal. Are you going to continue flogging this horse?

You decided to completely ignore the fact that when he signed his new deal, he was playing almost all the games and so wasn't a current injury concern, yeah?

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Sy13

Sy13

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You decided to completely ignore the fact that when he signed his new deal, he was playing almost all the games and so wasn't a current injury concern, yeah?

You decided to completely ignore my first sentence about his injury record already being poor yeah!?

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Glenn Wakeford

Glenn Wakeford

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You decided to completely ignore my first sentence about his injury record already being poor yeah!?

Cyclical argumentation for the win!

He had injuries before that yes, but given that he had played near two full seasons with no trouble we should have ignored him and not offered a deal because he previously had injuries?

By that logic we should have NEVER offered van Persie a new deal at all. Or Rosicky. We certainly shouldn't offer Wilshere a new deal in the future, or Vermaelen, or basically anyone who's been injured in the past.

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Sparky9334

Sparky9334

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It is poor a poor situation with diaby, but at the time he was playing. Rvp had the back end of the previous season injury free, we offered him a contract at the end of that season as he had 2 years left. He said no, went on to have an amazing season last time out and so the problem arose of just having a year left.

While the Diaby situation wasn't great cos he then got more injuries, it's unfair to blame every situation like this on AW and Gazidis.

Rvp wants out, let's get rid and move on.

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Glenn Wakeford

Glenn Wakeford

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While the Diaby situation wasn't great cos he then got more injuries, it's unfair to blame every situation like this on AW and Gazidis.

Totally, it's just that a lot of short-sighted people prefer to assign blame to individuals/groups as it's easier than actually understanding the complexities of a situation fully. And that's saddening.

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ArsenalFan7

ArsenalFan7

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So what's the rumoured fee? Will we be sitting by and just giving in simply and selling for £15million or so..

If Sahin does come in does that mean there will be no real ball winner in our midfield, or will we be looking to replace? I always assumed Sahin was more of a deep play maker type.

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SJ234

SJ234

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Any idea on the original source for that?

This guy on twitter https://twitter.com/GeoffArsenal who was called as reliable by another guy who is good for transfer news but isn't and doesn't claim to be ITK but rather just posts the news from the papers etc.

I doubt most things but it added up enough and the collaboration was good enough for me to mention it.

No idea on the fee but the Wenger pushing it makes sense tbh

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SJ234

SJ234

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Please explain.
We have no need to sell his contract has time to run. It being down to Wenger has been suggested in most of the press on the issue. Also Wenger may have an issue with his apparent attitude problem which led to him exposing our defence last season. All supposition though
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ArsenalFan7

ArsenalFan7

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Don't really know why £15million is acceptable when he's a good first team player and we have no need to sell. A good replacement would easily be at least £10million and unless they're a good step up in quality is there so much point in getting rid of an established player?

Anyway this article on skysports earlier claims Wenger is rejecting Song talk, which is what I'm liking.

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Llew_Arshavin23

Llew_Arshavin23

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Ultimately, Arsène knows when to sell and when to keep a player. His hand won't be forced in a similar fashion as it has been re: Robin van Persie. I'd love Alex Song to stay; he was one of our best players last season, but he's definitely replaceable.

I don't get the argument either that he isn't disciplined enough. He's fully capable of being disciplined. The away trip to Borussia Dortmund last season showcased that. It's more of the managements choice to let him roam, as Mikel Arteta is, essentially, our holding midfielder.

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dfgrigg

dfgrigg

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Perhaps Wenger wants a DM with the discipline to actually play as a DM, and not keep bursting forward looking to play the Hollywood ball.

Pretty sure Wenger has previously said that he wants Song to spend time attacking and that rather than playing a designated holding midfielder he prefers the midfield three to rotate and share defensive duties depending on the match and tactical situation. As far as I know that's not an unusual interpretation of midfield tactics in a 4-3-3 variant, but I'm not much of an expert.

Whether he wants Song to try the same damned pass every single time is an entirely different matter. :mad:

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Llew_Arshavin23

Llew_Arshavin23

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Pretty sure Song isn't leaving. Certainly wont for €15m anyway.

If he does I want M'Vila AND Sahin.

Agreed. His head as been turned somewhat by the Barça talk, but who wouldn't be interested in moving to Barcelona?

I've always thought that Sahin has been regarded as a short-term answer to Jack Wilshere's injury problems. Still seems that way.

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DandyDon

DandyDon

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Watching the Premier League transfer activity so far from North of the border with rather envious eyes and have to say that Arsenal's buys have been the most impressive to me so far. Especially getting Cazorla at that price.

If you keep hold of both RVP and Song, or alternatively sell one for £20 odd million and use that money to buy in some decent backup/competition for Sagna plus possibly a LB and another midefielder or striker (depending which one of Song or RVP left), then I wouldn't be all that surprised to see Arsenal pushing the Manchester clubs very close this season.

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SJ234

SJ234

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Ultimately, Arsène knows when to sell and when to keep a player. His hand won't be forced in a similar fashion as it has been re: Robin van Persie. I'd love Alex Song to stay; he was one of our best players last season, but he's definitely replaceable. I don't get the argument either that he isn't disciplined enough. He's fully capable of being disciplined. The away trip to Borussia Dortmund last season showcased that. It's more of the managements choice to let him roam, as Mikel Arteta is, essentially, our holding midfielder.
Wenger always gives his players great freedom especially when it comes to attacking. However Song has a tendency to focus too much upon his attacking such as QPR away and he completely exposed us.
I'd be happy if we sold both Song and RvP and then bought in a right back and the three players we've been linked with - M'Vila, Sahin and Mirallas.Alternatively we dont sign M'Vila and keep Song. Either is fine with me.
If we are going to sign M'vila which I don't think we will it will be last minute to force the price down to compensate for his attitude issues
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Chr1s Lawson

Chr1s Lawson

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Sahin while a quality signing is not an adequate replacement for song, if cazorla provides they creative spark we missed after fabregas and song as a result is more positionally disciplined, there aren't many better dm's around. Sahin is not as defensively minded as some people seem to think!

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Kawee

Kawee

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I don't think Song is leaving, just because Wenger doesn't want to sell, and he's in a position of power right now.

Perhaps Wenger wants a DM with the discipline to actually play as a DM, and not keep bursting forward looking to play the Hollywood ball.

If Wenger wanted to stop it, Song would have stopped it a long time ago. Wenger has a long history of transforming players to play as he wants them to play.

Hell, look at how Mourinho got Eto to play as right-winger, tracking back to the defensive third. Eto hated it, and Inter won the Triple.

When managers like Mourinho or Wenger make a decision, their players listen.

The most probable explanations for Song's venture forward are either Wenger doesn't mind (ie. giving his players freedom to roam) or Wenger is the one actually encouraging Song to push forward (ie. tactical decision.) Wenger telling Song to sit back, and Song constantly disobeying Wenger is highly unlikely.

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Llew_Arshavin23

Llew_Arshavin23

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If we are going to sign M'vila which I don't think we will it will be last minute to force the price down to compensate for his attitude issues

Yann M'Vila's price has already dropped from €25 million (last summer) to €14 million. I doubt it's going to drop much more - Rennes depending on his sale for their transfer plans.

Étienne Capoue would be another good option.

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Kawee

Kawee

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Reports of Barcelona Vice-Chairman in London to discuss Song, all over the internet today. I may have misjudged how much Wenger wants to keep Song. Perhaps Wenger is more open to letting Song go, than we think. Talks of middle ground between 15-20m pounds as being the final price.

I don't mind losing Song if we replace him properly with someone like M' Vila.

I think we're pretty much done with strengthening our team. Wenger is probably only looking to replace anyone that leave, from this point on.

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dudge7

dudge7

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Don't really know why £15million is acceptable when he's a good first team player and we have no need to sell. A good replacement would easily be at least £10million and unless they're a good step up in quality is there so much point in getting rid of an established player?

Anyway this article on skysports earlier claims Wenger is rejecting Song talk, which is what I'm liking.

Yeah I'm more prepared to believe that article than some random on twitter. Will be very surprised if you guys lose Song.

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ajw10

ajw10

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Posted
Reports of Barcelona Vice-Chairman in London to discuss Song, all over the internet today. I may have misjudged how much Wenger wants to keep Song. Perhaps Wenger is more open to letting Song go, than we think. Talks of middle ground between 15-20m pounds as being the final price.

I don't mind losing Song if we replace him properly with someone like M' Vila.

I think we're pretty much done with strengthening our team. Wenger is probably only looking to replace anyone that leave, from this point on.

We have to. We have 27 players over 21, we can only register 25.

Getting rid of Bendtner wouldn't help either as he is homegrown. If he goes we would either have to buy someone who is homegrown or register one of our under21 players.

I know yesterday I said that I didn't think that Song was going, but the news of them negotiating with us changes everything. Looks like we want to sell.

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dan_simmonds

dan_simmonds

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Can I just point out then, on that list are: Chamakh, Bendtner, Park, Arshavin and Squillaci. Not to mention Song and RVP. We don't have to register them. If we want to bring in Sahin or M'Vila or whoever we don't need to get rid necessarily, we just don't register them to play. Take them out and we're down to 20. Use your brain.

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dfgrigg

dfgrigg

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Can I just point out then, on that list are: Chamakh, Bendtner, Park, Arshavin and Squillaci. Not to mention Song and RVP. We don't have to register them. If we want to bring in Sahin or M'Vila or whoever we don't need to get rid necessarily, we just don't register them to play. Take them out and we're down to 20. Use your brain.

Is Wenger really likely to keep five senior players with the club who aren't registered for the league? Of course not. He'll try to sell/loan them out; if that doesn't work, he'll keep them, register them and use them as and when necessary.

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outlander

outlander

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Can I just point out then, on that list are: Chamakh, Bendtner, Park, Arshavin and Squillaci. Not to mention Song and RVP. We don't have to register them. If we want to bring in Sahin or M'Vila or whoever we don't need to get rid necessarily, we just don't register them to play. Take them out and we're down to 20. Use your brain.

Not to register RVP? Is this some kind of stupid joke?

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dan_simmonds

dan_simmonds

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Is Wenger really likely to keep five senior players with the club who aren't registered for the league? Of course not. He'll try to sell/loan them out; if that doesn't work, he'll keep them, register them and use them as and when necessary.
Not to register RVP? Is this some kind of stupid joke?

Clearly, you've both missed the point, as did ajw. The point that we will only sign players to replace the ones we have leaving is fundamentally wrong to base it upon the registration of players. If we sign other players who we would want to register to play for us, you know those who may actually contribute something, we don't need to register any of the initial 5 I mentioned in order to make space for the new players. It's clear to them (and us) that they are surplus to requirements but if we can't move them on they will stay at the club. They may be at the club but we don't need to register them!

As for RVP and Song, my point was that if they leave, they won't take up the spaces they currently occupy.

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dfgrigg

dfgrigg

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No, you've missed my point. I cannot see a scenario in which Wenger keeps senior players on the wagebill who are unable to play in the league. He doesn't freeze players out that way. Sometimes there are players who don't get many minutes (like Park), but they're still eligible to play and they still make up options on the bench.

You tell people to use their brains, but frankly you're not using yours.

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chris79

chris79

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Am I the only one who would be pretty gutted if Song left? Seeing a lot of people who would take the £15m and sell him no problem.

I am also surprised about the general reaction. Maybe it's because Song is one of my favourite players, but if you keep in mind that he was a regular, always picked when available it is clear that him leaving would weaken the squad. There is nobody really pushing for his place in the current group. Bringing in someone new is always a risk, he'd need to adapt to the league and blend into the team. Also any asking prices could go up if it becomes obvious we have to buy a defensive midfielder. I like M'Vila, but would he be cheaper than Song?

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dfgrigg

dfgrigg

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I am also surprised about the general reaction. Maybe it's because Song is one of my favourite players, but if you keep in mind that he was a regular, always picked when available it is clear that him leaving would weaken the squad. There is nobody really pushing for his place in the current group. Bringing in someone new is always a risk, he'd need to adapt to the league and blend into the team. Also any asking prices could go up if it becomes obvious we have to buy a defensive midfielder. I like M'Vila, but would he be cheaper than Song?

Generally speaking I trust Wenger when he decides to move a player on. Unless there's something nefarious going on behind the scenes he's not being forced to sell, so I'm happy to go along with his judgement.

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dfgrigg

dfgrigg

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But why would that stop us signing new players?

Because, like Almunia last season, they remain registered for the league. To put it plainly, when has Wenger ever had a senior player at the club, who cannot play in the league and is essentially consigned to the reserves?

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chris79

chris79

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It's a fact Wenger has a history of selling players who gave their best for Arsenal and couldn't reproduce it at the new club. But he was also selling players cause it was almost forced on him by various factors. I fear this may be the case with Song. And I still am not sure if it would be beneficial for the team.

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dan_simmonds

dan_simmonds

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Who says we need to register them! That's the point. And the registration thing is fairly new, so a situation like this has never arisen.

EDIT: Just for clarity. We register a new 25 every season. Just because some were in it last season, or not doesn't change the fact that we still have to submit a new 25.

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