Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[herne79]

15 minutes ago, ham_aka_stam said:

It also does PPMs if you don't pick the "off the field" one too right?

Yup .

[Seb Wassell]

16 minutes ago, ham_aka_stam said:

It also does PPMs if you don't pick the "off the field" one too right?

Yep one of the tutoring options has the chance to pass a/some PPMs from tutor to tutee.

[Jedi5diah]

how ineffective is playing AML winger on ML winger? i'm playing conservative old school 442

[alanschu14]

4 hours ago, Jedi5diah said:

how ineffective is playing AML winger on ML winger? i'm playing conservative old school 442

If they are good at playing Winger in AML position, they will probably do fine in ML Winger as well even without training in that position.  Getting them to Accomplished should go pretty quickly if you keep playing them there.

[vasilli07]

14 hours ago, Jedi5diah said:

how ineffective is playing AML winger on ML winger? i'm playing conservative old school 442

I will firstly look at the attributes of the required role you want to them to play. Positioning of the player in ML or AML is secondary.

[jc577]

If I want to set up in a medium block, what's more important - formation or d-line/mentality? For example, could I employ a medium block in a 4-3-3?

[Artin]

late in the game and i'm chasing a goal -- how do i send my DCs and/or GK to join the attack/set pieces?

overload + very fluid?

[craiigman]

Which attributes, visual or hidden effect this as a negative?

 

[MHovel]

2 hours ago, Artin said:

late in the game and i'm chasing a goal -- how do i send my DCs and/or GK to join the attack/set pieces?

overload + very fluid?

Set pieces instructions, Drag the GK, DC to the opposition box.

[Artin]

6 minutes ago, MHovel said:

Set pieces instructions, Drag the GK, DC to the opposition box.

what if it's just a normal attack (meaning not a set piece) late in the game? how can i make my DCs/GK join the attack? would overload + very fluid be enough?

Edited August 16, 2017 by Artin

[MHovel]

13 minutes ago, Artin said:

what if it's just a normal attack (meaning not a set piece) late in the game? how can i make my DCs/GK join the attack? would overload + very fluid be enough?

Set pieces routines is the only way to influence who joins the attacks in set pieces, mentality and shape has nothing to do with that.

Edited August 16, 2017 by MHovel

[Dr. Hook]

1 hour ago, craiigman said:

Which attributes, visual or hidden effect this as a negative?

 

If I recall rightly, you get that when one or both of  decisions and anticipation are below the league standard- does that jibe with what you are seeing?

[MHovel]

1 hour ago, craiigman said:

Which attributes, visual or hidden effect this as a negative?

 

If I understood your question, I think it's vary between players.

If you post the player profile or name it might be easy to say which mental attribute is the cause, I might call this for vision since anticipation has it's own "icon".

Edited August 16, 2017 by MHovel

[Artin]

9 minutes ago, MHovel said:

Set pieces routines is the only way to influence who joins the attacks in set pieces, mentality and shape has nothing to do with that.

yes i understand that part. if i want my GK/DC to be involved in attacking set pieces, i move them forward in the set piece instruction. my second question however is NOT regarding set pieces.

late in the game (say 88 mins on), down by 1 goal. i want my GK and/or DCs to join the attack... how do i do this (preferably by using only the team instructions)? i'm thinking overload + very fluid should do it but are there any other TIs i should tick (like "take more risks" for example)?

Edited August 16, 2017 by Artin

[MHovel]

6 minutes ago, Artin said:

yes i understand that part. if i want my GK/DC to be involved in attacking set pieces, i move them forward in the set piece instruction. my second question however is NOT regarding set pieces.

late in the game (say 88 mins on), down by 1 goal. i want my GK and/or DCs to join the attack... how do i do this? i'm thinking overload + very fluid should do it but are there any other TIs i should tick (like "take more risks" or "pump ball into box" for example)?

I undestand what you are saying, I don't think it's possible with team shape and mentality only.

Atleast in my experience and I played a lot with overload and very fluid shape, I never saw my GK going forward late in matches when we were 1 goal down.

Edited August 16, 2017 by MHovel

[Artin]

4 minutes ago, MHovel said:

I undestand what you are saying, I don't think it's possible with team shape and mentality only.

Atleast in my experience and I played a lot with overload and very fluid shape, I never saw my GK going forward late in matches when we were 1 goal down.

ahh that's a shame. so the GK doesn't go forward... what about the DCs? same thing?

Edited August 16, 2017 by Artin

[Dr. Hook]

15 minutes ago, MHovel said:

If I understood your question, I think it's vary between players.

If you post the player profile or name it might be easy to say which mental attribute is the cause, I might call this for vision since anticipation has it's own "icon".

You're right, anticipation has its own icon, and so do decisions. Vision has one too- 'player can't pick out a pass' or something like that.  I remember seeing 'lack of game intelligence' a few times and it has seemed to be a result of a combination of attributes , else it was not really explainable.

[MHovel]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Hook said:

You're right, anticipation has its own icon, and so do decisions. Vision has one too- 'player can't pick out a pass' or something like that.  I remember seeing 'lack of game intelligence' a few times and it has seemed to be a result of a combination of attributes , else it was not really explainable.

Oh yes you are right, there is an icon for vision.

I think you might be correct, the cause of the icon @craiigman upload might be a combination of mental attributes.

I might say the combination of Anticipation, Vision and Decisions might be lower and they are the cause of the icon to show up in the player cons. 

[71834]

On 08/14/2017 at 02:53, 71834 said:

I know a lot of people have complained about it but has anyone found any solution to how wide wingers sit while defending? Is there any combination of ppms/PIs that can make the slightest bit of difference? Can a system of max pressing hide the issue somewhat? If not, is there any way to make CMs/STs/AMs drift wide regularly when attacking? I find when I play without wingers I have too little width offensively but obviously when I play with them I have too much width offensively

Anyone?

[herne79]

15 minutes ago, 71834 said:

Anyone?

Some have complained.  Others don't see it as an issue and quite happily play with wingers.

Either way, there are plenty of threads about this already.  Start with rashidi's Gloucester 442 thread or nabskebabs' ranieri replication.

[71834]

2 hours ago, herne79 said:

Some have complained.  Others don't see it as an issue and quite happily play with wingers.

Either way, there are plenty of threads about this already.  Start with rashidi's Gloucester 442 thread or nabskebabs' ranieri replication.

I have read many threads like that but have still had no luck. Hence why I came here. Surely there's a way to have a less dysfunctional midfield 4 than in the screenshot below, no? Ideally I'd like something like the other screenshot but I appreciate that's probably not possible. I've tried playing with WMs instead of wingers, telling them to sit narrower, reducing team width (I'm aware the last 2 are only meant to make a difference offensively), using 'always close down' on central midfielders in OI to try to tempt the wide players inside and playing with wing backs instead of full backs but i just can't seem to get the hang of it. No thread I've read about talks about the other part of my question, which was about making narrow players drift wide so I hope you understand why I posted it here. It seems the 'run wide with ball' PI has been removed on narrow players unless I am mistaken

Edited August 16, 2017 by 71834

[nextqprmanager]

I need help with my Youth intake please ?

I struggle to weed out / let go of these youngsters, I feel they`re only young, give them time and keep giving them new contracts.

Should I release all `casual` personalities / low mental stats on a 17 y o ?, just keep only Professional with good determination ?? - one problem is with 3 intakes, Coaches are stretched.

Is there a guide / help on how to identify the wheat from the chaff ?

Thanks in advance

[ilkork]

(Excuse me if this has been asked before, but the search function doesn't work yet)

So, the rule is "at least 90 days of a specific 'General Training-Main Focus' for it to have an effect on attributes", right?
My first question is, do these "90 days" have to be cumulative or just "a total of 90 days throughout the year" will do?
Say I choose "Ball Control" for 1 month, then "Balanced" for the next month and then return to "Ball Control" for the next 2 months. Or even a different "General Training-Main Focus" each week but a total of 13 weeks throughout the year for each Main Focus.
Is this approach right or wrong?

My second question, is there a rule for "Additional Focus"? How many days to stick to a specific additional focus?
I think @Cleon said 2-3 months (correct me if I'm mistaken), but how do you come to this conclusion? Do you check the attribute you want to train, and for example, if it's 10.6 (or 10.8, I don't know) you switch to a different one? Assuming that it takes 2-3 months for a 10.0 attribute to become 10.6 or 10.8?

Edited August 18, 2017 by ilkork

[Cleon]

1 - Well 90 consecutive days for it to have any real bearing. You have to remember training is long-term not short term. Switching every week/months means you've never training it long enough to have a real impact.

2 - Individual focus on attributes is a short term option it gives an initial boost to that attribute. So using it long term isn't really beneficial especially once you see a change. That's why people normally rotate them after 1-2 months. You also have to remember that attributes rise differently for everyone, there is no set speed. It might rise quicker on one player than the next.

[ilkork]

On 8/17/2017 at 02:13, nextqprmanager said:

Is there a guide / help on how to identify the wheat from the chaff ?

I will tell you what I do, which I guess is very close to "right" (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

First of all, don't care about a youngster's personality, because you can always tutor him and change that. What you should care about though, is his current set of attributes and his potential ability.
If you look at a player's report, there's his Potential Ability (the star rating), and if the coach has good "Judging Player Potential" you can estimate in your head, how much better a youngster can become.

What I have created is a basic spreadsheet, with the "Current Attributes" and the "Potential Attributes":


As you can see, it's pretty obvious. I enter the basic info for a player (Name, Age, Position) and then I head over to my coach report and enter the CA and PA.
Then I enter the player's current attributes, and then my "estimation". Here's an example:


Panagiotis Retsos is a Central Defender. My coach says his CA is 2.5 stars and his PA is 4 stars and 1 black star. He's my best prospect.
He has the potential to become a very good Ball-Playing Defender (at least for my side) and that's my aim. From now on, his training will be "Position/Role: Ball-Playing Defender". What I will try to improve in the coming years with an "Additional Focus", are his:
Marking-Tackling
First Touch-Passing-Technique
Positioning-Composure
Strength-Balance

His other attributes will improve naturally.

I know that I am not very far off from what's going to happen (realistically). Sure, I am not 100% right, because nobody can predict the exact attributes for a player after some years, but having played FM for some years now, I am confident that my estimation is very close to reality.
Now, if his PA was, let's say, 3 stars and 1 black star, I would have added +1 for each value. At least +1. Maybe +2 in some attributes.

Hope this helps.

[ilkork]

13 minutes ago, Cleon said:

1 - Well 90 consecutive days for it to have any real bearing. You have to remember training is long-term not short term. Switching every week/months means you've never training it long enough to have a real impact.

2 - Individual focus on attributes is a short term option it gives an initial boost to that attribute. So using it long term isn't really beneficial especially once you see a change. That's why people normally rotate them after 1-2 months. You also have to remember that attributes rise differently for everyone, there is no set speed. It might rise quicker on one player than the next.

Thank you very much, I wasn't expecting that quick reply!

Do you personally have a rule for this? For example, if an attribute sees an increase by +0.4, do you change additional focus or do you wait for it to become +0.6?

[Cleon]

2 minutes ago, ilkork said:

Thank you very much, I wasn't expecting that quick reply!

Do you personally have a rule for this? For example, if an attribute sees an increase by +0.4, do you change additional focus or do you wait for it to become +0.6?

Speaking just for myself, I never use it for longer that 2 months whether I see a change or not. 

[ilkork]

Just now, Cleon said:

Speaking just for myself, I never use it for longer that 2 months whether I see a change or not. 

Ok.

Man you are a legend. 2 years ago I created a very good possession-based tactic out of your "The Art of Possession Football" thread and still use it to this day .
Keep it up and bring us new guides, will ya?

Thank you again.

[nextqprmanager]

ilkork,

Thank you for your reply.

So taking your example, Retsos is 2.5* at 17 - if like me I have some players not even 1* for the main Team or 3* for the Youth team , after 2 years at the club = get rid?

What`s the lowest star rating you keep ? & do you always just keep intakes for a year or 2 years to see ?.

Thx

[ilkork]

1 hour ago, nextqprmanager said:

ilkork,

Thank you for your reply.

So taking your example, Retsos is 2.5* at 17 - if like me I have some players not even 1* for the main Team or 3* for the Youth team , after 2 years at the club = get rid?

What`s the lowest star rating you keep ? & do you always just keep intakes for a year or 2 years to see ?.

Thx

You are welcome. Well, check some tips that might help:
-Star rating is not the best way to judge your players and/or get rid of. You should judge them based on their personality, their attributes, how useful they are within the tactic you use, their form, if it's cheaper to buy someone else, if they have potential, etc. A mix of all these.
-A player with 2.5* CA rating might be a lot better than a player with 3* CA rating. It all depends on his personality and the attribute distribution for the specific role he plays.
-Star rating also depends on which team you manage. For example, a Barcelona/Real Madrid player rated at 2*, will be rated 3* or 4* for a team like Anderlecht. Your coaches and scouts compare the other players based on your squad. That's how they give you the star rating.
-There is no point in having too many youngsters, say 40 youngsters in one team. It's bad youth development. If they are too many, A) they won't get enough match time, and B) too many players in the team can cause the coaches workload to be heavy and the rule is "keep it light all the time for optimal training" (the coaches workload, not the player's workload).
-Personally, I try to limit myself to a maximum of 25 players per team. 25 players for my Senior Team and 25 players for my U20s, a total of 50 players at the club I manage (Olympiacos in Greece). If I had a Reserves Team, I would add another 25. Most people are around there, their squad size ranges from 22 players to 25/27 players for each team (check this for more).
-Also, since I have the resources and I can buy better youngsters, I only keep about 4-5 players from each youth intake, the rest are released because they are not good enough and won't become good enough for my team.
But if you are involved in LLM, I guess you would keep everybody from the youth intake.

Can't think of something else atm.

Edited August 18, 2017 by ilkork

[nextqprmanager]

ilkork,

thanks for your time, I think I`ll sift my Youth again

[Seb Wassell]

9 hours ago, ilkork said:

(Excuse me if this has been asked before, but the search function doesn't work yet)

So, the rule is "at least 90 days of a specific 'General Training-Main Focus' for it to have an effect on attributes", right?
My first question is, do these "90 days" have to be cumulative or just "a total of 90 days throughout the year" will do?
Say I choose "Ball Control" for 1 month, then "Balanced" for the next month and then return to "Ball Control" for the next 2 months. Or even a different "General Training-Main Focus" each week but a total of 13 weeks throughout the year for each Main Focus.
Is this approach right or wrong?

My second question, is there a rule for "Additional Focus"? How many days to stick to a specific additional focus?
I think @Cleon said 2-3 months (correct me if I'm mistaken), but how do you come to this conclusion? Do you check the attribute you want to train, and for example, if it's 10.6 (or 10.8, I don't know) you switch to a different one? Assuming that it takes 2-3 months for a 10.0 attribute to become 10.6 or 10.8?

 

7 hours ago, Cleon said:

1 - Well 90 consecutive days for it to have any real bearing. You have to remember training is long-term not short term. Switching every week/months means you've never training it long enough to have a real impact.

2 - Individual focus on attributes is a short term option it gives an initial boost to that attribute. So using it long term isn't really beneficial especially once you see a change. That's why people normally rotate them after 1-2 months. You also have to remember that attributes rise differently for everyone, there is no set speed. It might rise quicker on one player than the next.

If you don't mind I'd like to jump in here.

Personal preference is fair enough, but there are no official rules on how long for either a team or individual focus should be set.

1. Agreed on the longer you maintain a focus the more likely you are to see an impact, but there is no upper nor lower limit here, similarly there are no diminishing returns on the input side.
Training updates weekly, the effects are cumulative but do not need to be concurrent. 

2. Individual focus on individual attributes is not a short term initial boost, it will continue to have an impact in the long term. There are also no diminishing returns here on the input side.
Agreed that every attribute and every player is different and as such attribute improvement will vary from one to the next.

Note - Attributes improve slower the higher they are. So going from 1-5 would be much easier/quicker than going from 15-20. As such this could give the illusion of lesser returns from that focus over time, but this is not the case, it is simply that attribute becoming harder to improve the higher it becomes.

[Seb Wassell]

2 hours ago, ilkork said:

-There is no point in having too many youngsters, say 40 youngsters in one team. It's bad youth development. If they are too many, A) they won't get enough match time, and B) too many players in the team can cause the coaches workload to be heavy and the rule is "keep it light all the time for optimal training" (the coaches workload, not the player's workload).

Quick bit to add here -

Before the age of 18 matches are not the key factor, it is training and training facilities that are important. After the age of 18 matches then do become key (at the correct level of competition), more so than facilities etc.

[nextqprmanager]

Seb Wassell, Thank you for your comments - so Youth up to 18 years old, it does not matter having say 40 players`, since my Training & Facilities are very good ? ;

so I should just sift out 18 y o + ?

[Seb Wassell]

6 minutes ago, nextqprmanager said:

Seb Wassell, Thank you for your comments - so Youth up to 18 years old, it does not matter having say 40 players`, since my Training & Facilities are very good ? ;

so I should just sift out 18 y o + ?

My comment was only really in respect to matches. As @ilkork mentions it is still important to consider coach workload etc.

[Gee_Simpson]

@Seb Wassell Is it better to loan out players after they are 18 if they aren't getting game time at your club or is it still beneficial to never loan them out? I have seen differing opinions on this.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Gee_Simpson

[Seb Wassell]

4 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

@Seb Wassell Is it better to loan out players after they are 18 if they aren't getting game time at your club or is it still beneficial to never loan them out? I have seen differing opinions on this.

That would depend on the level of football that loaning them out would provide. Facilities (and coaches etc.) are still an important factor after 18, just less so than before, with matches being the key factor.

With match experience aim for the goldilocks zone; too tough a competition and development will stall, too easy a competition and development will stall. You can judge how the player is finding the level of competition by looking at the average ratings he is able to achieve. 

[Cleon]

1 hour ago, Seb Wassell said:

 

If you don't mind I'd like to jump in here.

Personal preference is fair enough, but there are no official rules on how long for either a team or individual focus should be set.

1. Agreed on the longer you maintain a focus the more likely you are to see an impact, but there is no upper nor lower limit here, similarly there are no diminishing returns on the input side.
Training updates weekly, the effects are cumulative but do not need to be concurrent. 

2. Individual focus on individual attributes is not a short term initial boost, it will continue to have an impact in the long term. There are also no diminishing returns here on the input side.
Agreed that every attribute and every player is different and as such attribute improvement will vary from one to the next.

Note - Attributes improve slower the higher they are. So going from 1-5 would be much easier/quicker than going from 15-20. As such this could give the illusion of lesser returns from that focus over time, but this is not the case, it is simply that attribute becoming harder to improve the higher it becomes.

Cheers @Seb Wassell

In regards to 2 was this a recent change? Because there was a questions and answer session that someone did with Riz (when training was his thing) and he stated it was short-term and wasn't meant to be a long -term option at all.

[Seb Wassell]

7 minutes ago, Cleon said:

Cheers @Seb Wassell

In regards to 2 was this a recent change? Because there was a questions and answer session that someone did with Riz (when training was his thing) and he stated it was short-term and wasn't meant to be a long -term option at all.

No problem.

I can't speak for anything that happened before I joined SI (2015) but the information I have posted here regarding training/individual focus has come directly from Riz and as far as I am aware nothing has changed in my time here.

[Cleon]

2 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

No problem.

I can't speak for anything that happened before I joined SI (2015) but the information I have posted here regarding training/individual focus has come directly from Riz and as far as I am aware nothing has changed in my time here.

Brilliant. The Q&A was quite some time ago. Makes sense that it changed though as training has come a long way in the past 5 years. Thanks once again for the quick reply.

[Seb Wassell]

Just now, Cleon said:

Brilliant. The Q&A was quite some time ago. Makes sense that it changed though as training has come a long way in the past 5 years. Thanks once again for the quick reply.

No problem. I think there might be a bit of misinformation here and there that is either outdated or misinterpreted, happy to clear up anything when/where I can.

[beardymouse]

Any ideas on counteracting teams who play on the counter against you?

I don't really throw people forward (play with standard mentality), but often leak goals against decent teams who play direct and hit me on the counter. What should I be looking at to help counteract it?

[beardymouse]

23 minutes ago, Analog said:

Width and movement.

Presumably not roaming from positions? 

How does width come into it though?

[alanschu14]

4 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

You can judge how the player is finding the level of competition by looking at the average ratings he is able to achieve. 

Without giving away too much of the meat and potatoes, my experience with the match engine is that a 6.7-6.9 is a kind of "average, nothing good nothing bad" type of game.  Sounds like if I can get my loaners to have typical ratings between say, 6.5 and 7.2 (just sort of picking this out of the air) with the peak of the curve would probably be reflective that the league is "about right" for that type of player?

I recognize this can get complicated a bit since playing well raises morale so I can think on this a bit more.  I currently like them to hover around 7 because they aren't dominating but are likely still enjoying their football.

 

As a supplemental to other people, determining the correct league can be helped based on the coach report too.  One guideline I kind of use for international loans is how that league compares to the domestic league my coach report things the player is well suited for.  I also take a peek at the players on that team. Sometimes even if the team says "rotation" or "backup" for the loan, if my player is clearly better than the others on that team he's going to get the playing time. I had one player get about 70% of the league games in a Swedish First League despite being a "backup" as a result.  My guess is that the team was just really weak in that position compared to the rest of the players.

[jc577]

Does using a very fluid team shape mean players are going to roam from their position? Should the TI be used or is this over kill?

[alanschu14]

6 minutes ago, jc577 said:

Does using a very fluid team shape mean players are going to roam from their position? Should the TI be used or is this over kill?

I believe the biggest thing fluid/structured team shape does is impact the player's mentality.  While fluid, Defenders/players on defend role will be a bit more offensive.  Forwards/Attack role players will be a bit more defensive. One consequence is that it can "tighten" the gaps between each stage of the field (Defenders playing more up will be closer to the midfield for example).

Structured works the opposite way.  Players on attack role will tend to remain in attacking mentality, defenders will tend to stay defensive and so forth.  This can possibly increase space between each stage of the field.  These mentalities are also impacted by mentality (Counter, Attacking, etc) so with those two things you can exert a bit more control over how attacking your players are.  And important to note that say, someone on defend duty during Overload mentality is still going to be pretty offensive.  Just a bit less so if the team shape is structured instead of fluid.

[ilkork]

@Seb Wassell Thank you very much for the input!
 

5 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

I think there might be a bit of misinformation here and there that is either outdated or misinterpreted, happy to clear up anything when/where I can.

You see sir, you can spend your entire day searching for guides/topics and you can end up with no right conclusion. You read guides from fmscout or guidetofootballmanager for example, and you find out they don't say the same things like @herne79, @Rashidi and @Cleon (people who I consider more reliable) say. But still, there are small details that you can find no answer, anywhere (I guess that's what this thread is for?).
For example, I used to believe "you have to do fitness training for 1-2 weeks in pre-season, that's what clubs irl do". But then I found out that "Fitness" only improves attributes, like "Ball Control" does for example and it's not necessary in pre-season at all...

We (the users) don't play the game the right way, because there is a lack of documentation with examples. I am not talking about the basic stuff, like this, but small details. We have to search through endless pages of threads from Rashidi, Cleon, Herne and others to find an answer...
Many times I wake up with the feeling "I wanna play FM now!", but end up reading endless pages from guides, and by the time I'm done I am so tired, I go to sleep again without having played FM...

Edited August 18, 2017 by ilkork

[nextqprmanager]

ilkork, I have sympathy

I just wanted to play the game as IRL, no multiple saves etc., but I do research and it is frustrating ; which is why I`m only in 2020 !,

when FM 18 is on the horizon ....ho hum

[Tom14]

What contributes to this player losing a lot of headers - mainly long passes or clearances from defence? He is playing in the English Premier League to give an idea of the standard of player he is against. He regularly wins less than 40% of his aerial duals.

[Cleon]

7 hours ago, brookie1402 said:

What contributes to this player losing a lot of headers - mainly long passes or clearances from defence? He is playing in the English Premier League to give an idea of the standard of player he is against. He regularly wins less than 40% of his aerial duals.

Bravery probably as he will shy away from some things that he isn't confident of winning. Could also be concentration as he might not see the header until late because his brain might have drifted off elsewhere.