Can we expect features from other major manager game implemented into FM?

[milnerpoint]

it is because I'm not English. yet you provide no arguments why finances and stuff like that isn't part of football.

LOL who said fiances were not part of football? They are not part of being a football manager, and they are not in the game to any further extent than having control over a wage and transfer budget, much like real life.

[SWaRFeGa]

what about contracts? do reallife managers also negotiate? guess what, they usually don't, so according to you, we should throw that out.

We negotiate contracts for entertainment purposes. For greater control. Because it's a simulation. I don't see the point in creating a Director of Football role (quick, grab a cushion...) just to fulfill the role that the manager is already fulfilling.

[Quads]

We negotiate contracts for entertainment purposes. For greater control. Because it's a simulation. I don't see the point in creating a Director of Football role (quick, grab a cushion...) just to fulfill the role that the manager is already fulfilling.

But manager does not do that. And you don't want anything ingame that has nothing to do with being a manager. So, let's throw it out. As I said, SI should give us control over what we can control, or not, so it creates even more realism, which FM lacks in terms of transfers/negotiating.

[SCIAG]

Can you all please argue reasonably without resorting to tired old arguments and attacking the other side?

[Quads]

Can you all please argue reasonably without resorting to tired old arguments and attacking the other side?

I don't see any verbal attacks from either us, just a healthy discussion

[Alan A Wadge]

To be honest I agree with Quads on this, it should be an expansion to your career were after a long successful career you can be offered a job were you are the manager with added benefits in which you can act as a Club Manager as well and deal in the marketing side of football ie: sponsorships, tickets, stadium, fan interaction events, gala dinners (were you will be having press conferences with media and stuff like this) I am not saying have one instead of the other, I am saying have both! It's a win/win situation for both sides of the discussion, if you don't want it, dont use it, if you do, use it!

[Llew_Arshavin23]

I saw a post on the FM12 Ideas Thread by a kid who was propsing a option to be a 'Football Chairman'!?

[Lazaru5]

I saw a post on the FM12 Ideas Thread by a kid who was propsing a option to be a 'Football Chairman'!?

shame... what next? Directors of Football?

Why can't people just be happy being a manager?

[kccircle]

shame... what next? people are not allowed to propose opinions of where they would like the game to move towards

Why can't people be just be happy to accept that we are not sheep?

[jackripper]

i wouldnt like to start dabbling into the finance and market side of the game. Im happy as it is at the moment and would rather leave my AI accountants deal with that side of the game. Im a manager and want to manage my team not manage how many shirts i have to sell in India. The game can be over complicated already with all the tactics and things like that for most people so adding this would drive some people crazy.

[milnerpoint]

shame... what next? people are not allowed to propose opinions of where they would like the game to move towards

Why can't people be just be happy to accept that we are not sheep?

I know imagine all the people enjoying a management game wanting it to continue being a management game, what sheep we all are.

[x42bn6]

I think people shouldn't get bogged down by the fact that the game's name has the word "Manager" in it. It's just a name...

Besides, it could easily extend to "management" which can imply a whole lot more than just a lowly football manager. A COO is a management figure, as is the DoF. A management game that has the ability to take on their responsibilities wouldn't be amiss.

What it comes down to is why people want to play football management sims. I suspect it's not the actual football management that people enjoy - it's being in control of your favourite team, or taking a lowly club to Champions League glory through what appears to be your efforts alone. As a result, I wouldn't put it past some users to suggest features that are part of the DoF or COO's jobs, because it gives them additional control (which they find fun).

Of course, some people don't want these features, which is why I simply propose they are hidden in some screen where you can take responsibility. I'll dig out my TCM2005 disk as I think it does it in a nice way but it gives the user the option to choose which roles they want to do - they can choose a football manager role, or a DoF, or jack-of-all-trades, or a custom profile, with around 30 different roles. I think it even implies that you don't even need to take charge of matches if you don't want to! Anything you don't do is left to the AI. So you can do things like adjust merchandising and edit your own stadium (which was probably the coolest bit of the game by far).

I think people do need to remove themselves from the "it's called Football MANAGER!" mantra - it's not about what the name is called. Let SI figure out what the Football Manager brand implies. If you don't like some of the features proposed here, critique the feature, not defend the Football Manager name - let SI do that! The critique could be something like "it would take too much of my time" or "it's too vague", for example.

Quite frankly why some users want to defend SI against the infidels who dare propose bold ideas is beyond me. SI aren't children - they can defend themselves. Users should be the unreasonable ones - otherwise the game is going to go nowhere, fast.

[ChrisNUFC]

I've always thought it'd be a nice option on a career game to be offered a role as Youth Team Manager, or Reserve Manager and build your reputation up before being offered the role as a manager at another club.

[mightymanager]

I think that the OP is speaking about a game like Fifa manager where you are a manager and you have options to controll more things like sponsors, tickets etcc..

The argument of the OP that FM should not allow negociations as a football manager ( coach ) is in reality not doing this is a real argument.

We should not be so proud that FM is a real football manger as it's not true at all, so the OP is just asking if SI can implemente some options in order to controll more financial parts, like the contratc negociations is an extra option in FM !

I'm not telling we should be agrre with hime but please don't argue by telling that FM is a real simulation of football maner, it's wrong !!!

Personnaly I don't like this idea of OP but it's not a stupid idea like adding more graphic polish or fan's reaction etc...

Fm is an exellent GAME but it's not perfect in many points ( graphics, training, scouting, interaction, media etc... )

The idea of OP is a respectable idea as many stupid ideas are even really existing in this forum, so, please be openminded !

Thanks.

[Quads]

I'm glad that some people aren't as narrowminded as few posters in this thread. All I want is for FM to improve, and to add even more realism to the game, all I've suggested is a part of football, and all I really wanted, was response from SI whether they are planning on adding those features in near future.

[x42bn6]

Not necessarily more realism - more "control" is probably more accurate.

In the spirit of realism vs. fun, these features likely fall into the "fun" category if we interpret realism as "football manager". But then again, I don't think we need to interpret realism in that way. Microsoft Word is a word processor, but is capable of much, much more... The genre is "football management" which I think is conveniently vague enough to include DoF and COO mechanisms if enough users want it.

[Cougar2010]

I'm glad that some people aren't as narrowminded as few posters in this thread. All I want is for FM to improve, and to add even more realism to the game, all I've suggested is a part of football, and all I really wanted, was response from SI whether they are planning on adding those features in near future.

Whilst I don't agree with how some posters have replied to you I do feel they have a point.

The bulk of users play the game to manage a football team, sign players, pick tactics, play a match etc. They don't want to have to deal with merchandising, finance etc tbh transfer/contract negotiations and the current finances are a step too far for many so making it more in depth I suspect would alienate them even further pushing them away from the game.

Adding more depth to these fringe areas also means programming time taken away from the core aspects of the game which is why you see such a negative response to these sort of ideas on this forum.

Without adding depth to the fringe areas though means positions such as DoF or Chairman are non-starters due to the lack of things to do. DoF has slightly more than Chairman but neither would appeal to the majority of users who would end up just sitting pressing continue for much of their gaming session.

[Coentrao]

Ah good old Premier Manager II days where you would pick the adboards yourself..

[aaron1606]

title is Football Manager, which means a manager of football, and director of football definitely manages football too. People keep saying "oh youre supposed to be a manager jadajada". No you don't. Sven was Director Of Football at Notts Co and there are numerous of other examples, it just makes the game more detailed in terms of footballing, not sims.

EDIT: and we have too much control as a manager either way.

Sven being director of football at Notts is an example of what exactly?

[robertcornell68]

I know some (a lot?) of people think more realism = better game but I'm not one of them.

Basically, we're not roll-playing managers, we're playing as the club. There are fun things we get to do and boring things we don't have to. I don't have a problem with that.

In practical terms, there's no way SI will spend time on something almost no one would be interested in at the expense of things like the ME that almost everyone is obsessive about. I don't have a problem with that either.

So, to answer the question. Yes, we can expect things to be implemented from other games but only if they improve this one.

(I haven't heard of any that would, IMO.)

[ChrisNUFC]

The reverse of what's being asked, it would be good if a controlling chairman handled all transfers/contract negotiations on your behalf more often.

[big_bob]

What I want to see in the next versions of FMs is youth academies all over the world. If you're a big team with a high reputation and great youth facilities and a scouting knowledge over 60%, like Arsenal, Real Madrid, Lyon etc. you should have an option to build an youth academy anywhere in the world. Like South America, Africa, Asia etc. And every year, a news item will be saying: 3 players from your youth academy in South America are good enough to start training with your team (players being only 15 and 16). It would be cool to have such a feature for the next versions and also a revamped youth system will be great.

[Cougar2010]

What I want to see in the next versions of FMs is youth academies all over the world. If you're a big team with a high reputation and great youth facilities and a scouting knowledge over 60%, like Arsenal, Real Madrid, Lyon etc. you should have an option to build an youth academy anywhere in the world. Like South America, Africa, Asia etc. And every year, a news item will be saying: 3 players from your youth academy in South America are good enough to start training with your team (players being only 15 and 16). It would be cool to have such a feature for the next versions and also a revamped youth system will be great.

Have you any links to where clubs have done this in real life?

As far as I know no real life club has anything like this currently.

[x42bn6]

Adding more depth to these fringe areas also means programming time taken away from the core aspects of the game which is why you see such a negative response to these sort of ideas on this forum.

Why do users worry about how SI devote their programming time? It is up to the users to be demanding of features, and it is up to SI to prioritise what is done.

Not everyone at SI works on the "core" aspects of the game. There will likely be teams working on other features, and perhaps a minor works team. It is their TODO list that this thread intends to fill up - not the "core" team.

Users don't know how SI devote their time, so there is no need for them to "prioritise" things for them.

[dafuge]

Have you any links to where clubs have done this in real life?

As far as I know no real life club has anything like this currently.

I'm guessing he means similar to Ajax and their South African and American clubs, although they aren't strictly youth clubs.

[Guest]

I've always thought it'd be a nice option on a career game to be offered a role as Youth Team Manager, or Reserve Manager and build your reputation up before being offered the role as a manager at another club.

Yeah me too.

[T-IceMan]

I'm guessing he means similar to Ajax and their South African and American clubs, although they aren't strictly youth clubs.

Yeah for example, and in the past another Dutch club, Feyenoord, had a youth school in Ghana (they might still have -EDIT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feyenoord_Ghana). A lot of clubs have got contacts with already established youth academy's in several countries like brazil (either ones that are of a professional club, or just a standalone academy).

I just notice a lot of people zooming into the meaning of "Football Manager" in English football bash on feature suggestions like this. However in my opinion, the suggested DoF etc. "features" are also part of managing a football club, so why shouldnt they be available to play with? (if you want to). In my terms, current FM is just "Football Head Coach" with added DoF features (like signing players etc, which in Holland is done a lot by DoF's), not Football Manager .

[Quads]

Sven being director of football at Notts is an example of what exactly?

of managers becoming directors of football.

[Quads]

Have you any links to where clubs have done this in real life?

As far as I know no real life club has anything like this currently.

Craig Bellamy's academy in Sierra Leone - few players will play in Cardiff City's youth team this season. Perhaps there should just be academies (because obviously, there are like national academies, like in Lithuania, graduates play for different clubs), clubs can fund them to add some of it's best players to their youth squad? Or something like that.

[SWaRFeGa]

of managers becoming directors of football.

And we all know what a great idea that was.

[aaron1606]

of managers becoming directors of football.

And it was never clear what exactly Sven's job was for Notts, so it isn't really a good argument to include DoF's into FM.

As the DoF doesn't usually take charge of a matchday, I don't see the point. Ultimately the core of FM is managing the 11 players you have on the field - everything else you do is geared towards helping that. So for me, what would be the point of being the DoF instead of the manager?

[tingting]

Maybe i am having a go at SWaRFeGa and milnerpoint and maybe i will get flamed, but for all your chest thumping that this game is Football MANAGER and not Football Director etc etc...do you even know what a football manager does? He is in no way involved in the financial negotiations during transfer of a player, he is in no way involved in the financial negotiations with the player's agent during contract talks, he is in no way involved during the negotiations with another club..promising them this much money if they play a friendly at home (though this was corrected with 11.3) he is in no way involved in arranging friendlies with different clubs (even managerial legends such as Ferguson and Wenger have to accept the friendly fixture list that the club arranges in the pre-season) apart from a few English clubs, the managers at majority of European and World clubs can only hope that they are given the choice to name their own player that they want to buy, let along enter into financial negotiations and i am pretty sure that apart from some exceptions, a manager has no say in whether the club should get affiliated with another club or has a say in which particular club should the affiliation be. So you see, even though the game's name is Football Manager....we are able to do a lot of things that a manager does not do...technically the manager in Football MANAGER is the merging of a football manager and a director of football.

This has been going on and on for the past few years...any new suggestions that might make the game more enjoyable for some (such as wanting to design their own stadiums)...people jump up and down claiming that this is Football MANAGER and not Football DIRECTOR or Football CHAIRMAN. Those who swear by this pseudo realism of the game...maybe they should petition SI to remove all those features that a manager realistically does not do (seeing that this is Football MANAGER)...remove the transfer negotiations, remove the contract negotiations, remove the request feeder club option and just pray that your board will add to the position that you want to strengthen (let alone a specific player) and then come here and say that the Director of Football thingy is boring and "less detailed".

Some guys want to just buy or sell players/make financial decisions regarding the club rather than think whether they should increase creativity by 2 notches, some guys are only interested in what happens if they increase mentality by 1 notch while some guys want to do it all.....it depends on a particular person's interest. I remember back in 2003 playing the "other" manager game and in it there were options of what aspect of running the game would i like to control...a similar option here would make those guys wanting those other options happy.

Now if SI says that adding this "optional" feature is too cumbersome and difficult...then no problem...we cannot demand something that they cannot do...but just claiming that this is Football MANAGER and not Football DIRECTOR..well those who do that look more foolish than others. Ohh and those who say that people "should stick exclusively to this "other game" if it's so good"...well they bought the game with their own money...and they are commenting on a forum that has been set up by the company from whom they bought the game...and they are not forcing you to read their comments or reply to it..so may be they should simply shut up?

[milnerpoint]

last time i checked this was a forum for discussing points on FM? He asked a question, we answered, are we to not answer when we dont agree?

[wally13]

Hmm how do you know that no managers have no say in financial things like transfer fee or wages or how do you know they have no input on what friendlies teams play etc, im not saying your wrong but how do you know ?

[milnerpoint]

I know up here in Aberdeen Craig Brown has full control over offering wages to players, he is given a budget for the season and its up to him to spread the money about as he see's fit, Willie Miller helps out with the contract side of things, but ultimately Brown has the final say on what the money he has available is spend on.

The biggest issue i have with this is, yes more options are good. BUT to make this work all of these untouched sections of the game would have to be hugely expanded, which means that they will have to be controlled, if you chose the option to turn this off or not be DoF or however it works, the AI would then be in control of these features, now you see the problems people have with the AI as it stands, imagine what this would bring into the game. The only other option would be two different games.

[Aim_Less]

It would be a nice feature and the idea of managing youth and reserves to gain reputation is also very good

some people are very narrow-minded or afraid that this game will become Fifa manager or something near that ( for most of them we would still be playing CM 01-02 with just a transfer update)

fact is this game needs some innovation in it

[x42bn6]

last time i checked this was a forum for discussing points on FM? He asked a question, we answered, are we to not answer when we dont agree?

Nothing is stopping you from replying. It's just that arguing because the game name has "manager" in it really isn't the greatest argument in the world.

----

The fact that some managers have more responsibilities than others is a sign that we should be able to take on or remove certain responsibilities, too. Some of those are traditionally DoF roles.

[cruyff14]

I think you're getting totally confused yourself with what a director of football does. All the financial aspects that you think a director of football deals with is in fact just dealt with by managing directors of the board and sponsorships are done by a marketing department which again is overseen by one of the clubs directors.

A director of football may have some input into transfer targets or development of youth or youth and training facilities but the overall choice is made by the board which controls the club they also write the cheques not the the director of football.

A director of football will just act as a face for the board nothing else as all he really is at the end of the day is a go between players/manager and board, an advisor really that's all.

Besides you tend to find they don't last long at clubs either as they have different ideas to the manager and they are often nothing more than a disaster in the UK clubs.

Oh and don't use Wikipediea for your bases to an argument as it's not the most reliable of sources.

[manunited4life123]

Have to say, i have no interest in what the op is suggesting.

[milnerpoint]

Nothing is stopping you from replying. It's just that arguing because the game name has "manager" in it really isn't the greatest argument in the world.

----

The fact that some managers have more responsibilities than others is a sign that we should be able to take on or remove certain responsibilities, too. Some of those are traditionally DoF roles.

A DoF is not a traditional role, it is a modern role introduced to help managers who dont have time to do everything,.

[x42bn6]

A DoF is not a traditional role, it is a modern role introduced to help managers who dont have time to do everything,.

"Traditionally" is a metaphor of some sort and doesn't imply the DoF's role is traditional. All it means is that the DoF "usually" has roles X, Y and Z - i.e. "tradition".

The phrase "Bad Auto-tuned singing, traditionally associated with Rebecca Black..." is valid, despite the fact Rebecca Black is not traditional to the entertainment business.

Also, in today's environment with footballing costs going sky-high and rich owners wanting to play with their toys, the DoF is closer to the owners and board than the manager is, and gives them more levels of control. As a "bonus" to the manager, the DoF sometimes takes roles that the manager doesn't necessarily need control over and lets them focus on the football. So it's not just managers not having enough time.

[stevie_G_32201]

Can we also have a stadium editor, bribing teams to lose and streakers?

/sarcasm.

[x42bn6]

Can we also have a stadium editor, bribing teams to lose and streakers?

/sarcasm.

I don't see what's wrong with the first one.

Some users like saving money to build a new stadium. The fact is is that it usually gets done.

Since stadia are largely cosmetic, why not give the user some control over it? The board gives you a budget and you get to design one. A "functional" stadium has a higher capacity but is uglier and fans might get annoyed, while a "fancy" stadium is of a lower capacity and hence less income is gained. The user will be able to see their works of art in 3D and perhaps stadium designs could be shared with other FM users.

[stevie_G_32201]

The problem is that its a manager game and in reality, the manager has no control at all over stadium design.

[cruyff14]

I don't see what's wrong with the first one.

Some users like saving money to build a new stadium. The fact is is that it usually gets done.

Since stadia are largely cosmetic, why not give the user some control over it? The board gives you a budget and you get to design one. A "functional" stadium has a higher capacity but is uglier and fans might get annoyed, while a "fancy" stadium is of a lower capacity and hence less income is gained. The user will be able to see their works of art in 3D and perhaps stadium designs could be shared with other FM users.

Awful idea, football managers don't design stadiums. And yes I know Wenger had some input into the Emirates but he didn't design it.

[x42bn6]

Awful idea, football managers don't design stadiums. And yes I know Wenger had some input into the Emirates but he didn't design it.

Again, the game clearly isn't a full "football manager" game and it incorporates other things that aren't necessarily "football manager" tasks and several things that a "football manager" does are missing.

Stadium design is largely cosmetic and if users save up a lot of money in anticipation of a new stadium, why not give them a say in designing it? They are going to look at it for the next few seasons, after all.

Don't get bogged down by the notion that a game has to stick to its title with superglue.

[cruyff14]

Again, the game clearly isn't a full "football manager" game and it incorporates other things that aren't necessarily "football manager" tasks and several things that a "football manager" does are missing.

Stadium design is largely cosmetic and if users save up a lot of money in anticipation of a new stadium, why not give them a say in designing it? They are going to look at it for the next few seasons, after all.

Don't get bogged down by the notion that a game has to stick to its title with superglue.

Well it is really as your job in the game is to manage a football team and what that entails buying/selling, coaching,tactics and all the other bits that are in game.

Football managers don't build stadiums and they don't set ticket, hotdog,pies,drinks,merchandise and programme prices and these things should never be included in the game as they are completeley irrelevant to a football managers day to day duties!

If you want to do these things go play FIFA Manager or pretend in your mind that you have had a say in it all whilst your driving in your imaginary Ferrari that you just bought with you imaginary Football Managers wages!

[milnerpoint]

What next choosing the make of training kit your team wears?

[x42bn6]

Well it is really as your job in the game is to manage a football team and what that entails buying/selling, coaching,tactics and all the other bits that are in game.

Football managers don't build stadiums and they don't set ticket, hotdog,pies,drinks,merchandise and programme prices and these things should never be included in the game as they are completeley irrelevant to a football managers day to day duties!

If you want to do these things go play FIFA Manager or pretend in your mind that you have had a say in it all whilst your driving in your imaginary Ferrari that you just bought with you imaginary Football Managers wages!

Why should the game be stuck with pure football management duties?

[cruyff14]

Why should the game be stuck with pure football management duties?

Because that's what the game is about being a Football Manager it's pretty clear in the title of the game really.

If it was stadium designer it would be called 'Football Stadium Designer'