Players to look for in next patch

[pret]

And Rooney deserves a pretty significant decrease. I think it's pretty obvious last year was an outlier and while he's a very good player, I wouldn't say he's world class.

The only part of rooney's game that's been especially poor has been his touch, as a result of a poor first touch, he hasn't created as many openings and therefore hasn't scored as many goals

[SCIAG]

So? He has played for Barnsley before but he isn't in the database for legal reasons.

The boy is still at school. Let him take some GCSE's before he is subjected to a video game.

You're confusing him with Reuben Noble-Lazarus. Sterling was with QPR but hasn't played for them.

BTW, on this thread: they're a bit dubious to begin with, and always descend into petty squabbling. Can we all try and avoid that from here on in? Otherwise, the thread will be locked.

[Ventricity]

based on rooney's last goal they will probably upgrade him even further.

i hope they downgrade neymar, he hasn't proved himself enough to warrant that kind of awsome. also they should add in his description that he is the new denilson.

[Ty]

downrated:

neymar - the next denilson(should be labeled that in description)

Have you even seen Neymar play?!

Doesn't play anything like Denilson, doesn't even play the same position.

The boy is on fire in real life, so much talent and a typical skillful, technical Brazilian. He reminds me of a younger Robinho - teams struggle to get near him.

His attributes on FM are perfect.

[smell_the_glove]

Celtic - Emilio Izaguirre

Beram Kayal

Gary Hooper

Kris Commons

Rangers - Jamie Ness

Blackpool - Charlie Adam

Arsenal - Jack Wilshere

Sunderland - Phil Bardsley

[celebritykiller]

Doesn't play anything like Denilson, doesn't even play the same position.

Just in case you're getting confused, I think he means the Denilson that went to Betis years ago (>10 years maybe) for more than 20m as was going to be the next big thing.

[Llew_Arshavin23]

Everyone seems to have forgotten about Jordan Henderson. He's nowhere near as good as he is on FM compared to reality.

[Ty]

Just in case you're getting confused, I think he means the Denilson that went to Betis years ago (>10 years maybe) for more than 20m as was going to be the next big thing.

Oh, completely wrong Denilson indeed!

We are talking about the ex-most expensive transfer in the world - not the Arsenal whipper snapper.

Big difference. My point still stands though

[lancer1]

The only part of rooney's game that's been especially poor has been his touch, as a result of a poor first touch, he hasn't created as many openings and therefore hasn't scored as many goals

Not really. Did you see his opener against Aston Villa? That was an exquisite touch.

Rooney has 5 goals and 10 assists in 19 League starts this season. Hardly awful.

Both he and Torres have struggled for form, but that doesn't mean they deserve downgrading. They're clearly among the best in the world.

[samdiatmh]

Not really. Did you see his opener against Aston Villa? That was an exquisite touch.

Rooney has 5 goals and 10 assists in 19 League starts this season. Hardly awful.

Both he and Torres have struggled for form, but that doesn't mean they deserve downgrading. They're clearly among the best in the world.

how you can defend these kind of players is laughable

Rooney - consistently a 25+ league goalscorer per season, yet IRL has only passed 15 once (see my post on the previous page)

Torres - i really don't have an issue with him as much, as his injuries keep him out for long periods (and thuis his tally is down) but his best season he scored 24 league goals (2007/08) and this season he has a combined total of 9 goals in 25 appearances... this is WORSE than the likes of Andy Carroll (who has played 6 less league games)

anyways, we can debate stats all we like

I like the look of Djourou, all i've seen of him this season is his performance against Barca and vs Leeds... but he's looked a fairly accomplished DC in both games

Szcensey (Arsenal keeper) looks distinctly average in 11.2 and definately should be upgraded for 11.3, there is NO WAY that he would even make the squad against Barcelona, let alone the starting 11 on 11.2

I think that Huntelaar should be downgraded, did you see his miss vs Valencia? (oh dear, that was shocking)

[dz47]

I know it’s been mentioned (and debated) several times, but if Wilshere is not deserving of the highest PA bracket then I really don’t know anyone who is. I mean seriously, the kid has not only broken into the Arsenal first team, but has established himself as a key player in one of the biggest teams in the biggest and most competitive league in the world. His dominance of the ‘best midfield in the world’ in a key CL game the other night is a clear example not only of his football ability, but also to his mentality and maturity. As it currently stands, his random PA could see him reach world class standard, or it could see him become only a decent/good premier league player. To me this is not realistic given what he has consistently shown over the past 12 months. Barring horrible injury or personal problems (touch wood!), the kid is going to be world class. No question, no debate.

[x42bn6]

I know it’s been mentioned (and debated) several times, but if Wilshere is not deserving of the highest PA bracket then I really don’t know anyone who is. I mean seriously, the kid has not only broken into the Arsenal first team, but has established himself as a key player in one of the biggest teams in the biggest and most competitive league in the world. His dominance of the ‘best midfield in the world’ in a key CL game the other night is a clear example not only of his football ability, but also to his mentality and maturity. As it currently stands, his random PA could see him reach world class standard, or it could see him become only a decent/good premier league player. To me this is not realistic given what he has consistently shown over the past 12 months. Barring horrible injury or personal problems (touch wood!), the kid is going to be world class. No question, no debate.

Wilshere's -9 averages to 165 which is "world-class". Take a look at the players who have a CA in the region of 162-168 - those are very, very good players.

-10 averages out to 185. Which basically says that "on average, Wilshere will be as good as Xavi". And don't get me wrong - Wilshere is good, but he won't become Xavi on average.

[milnerpoint]

I know it’s been mentioned (and debated) several times, but if Wilshere is not deserving of the highest PA bracket then I really don’t know anyone who is. I mean seriously, the kid has not only broken into the Arsenal first team, but has established himself as a key player in one of the biggest teams in the biggest and most competitive league in the world. His dominance of the ‘best midfield in the world’ in a key CL game the other night is a clear example not only of his football ability, but also to his mentality and maturity. As it currently stands, his random PA could see him reach world class standard, or it could see him become only a decent/good premier league player. To me this is not realistic given what he has consistently shown over the past 12 months. Barring horrible injury or personal problems (touch wood!), the kid is going to be world class. No question, no debate.

There is always a question and debate over his future potential, not that i disagree on his talent, but i dont know about him becoming one of the worlds best, no one can really, to put him near the same bracket as the worlds top midfielders at the moment is a bit of an insult to the guys who have worked their socks off to get to that level. He didnt dominate Barca in anyway, he had a very good game but he wasnt the be all and end all of the game. He has shown over the past 6 months he is capable of mixing it with the best when on his day but lets not get carried away so early in his career. I seem to remember a few threads a few years back saying Walcot should have had the ability to mix it with the worlds best, and to give him ratings like Henry, it doesnt always work out as we imagine.

[IanRx]

In regards to the culling of a players stats based on a bad season...

We are playing football manager 2011 (the key part being the 2011). Therefore surely by the third patch players stats should be reflecting their real life counter parts as it stands now.

Maybe the problem isn't the stats per-say. Maybe the mechanics of form/ consistency need to be addressed. Perhaps a threash-hold for form needs to be established for each player depending on the events in the last few months (in game once passed the first season).

I.e. Rooneys form / consistency prior to getting injured / the world cup could fluctuate between 15 and 20 (refering to how well he would play each game, 0 being poor 20 being game changing) . Currently would be between a 5-14. If in game you give him game time, he stays injury free and doesn't suffer fatigue a mechanic can increase his form/ consistency to between 9-14. If for the following two months he gets more game time the he'll become more consistent and more in form, with the ME allowing him to playing between 11-17.

This way the players could be true to life for the first season (as we are playing a sim of this season) and can find form again over the following seasons or even lose form making stats only relevent when the player is on form (as is the case in real life).

Hope that sort of makes sense.

[Maran]

Thanks for ruining my wishes not to know PAs, especially those of players I am currently managing!

[jozza800]

The only players that should be altered are those that are comfortably holding down first team positions in real life but wouldn't get a look in on FM. Players like Martin Kelly and Marc Albrighton.

[dz47]

i see what you are saying, but the key word is potential. You are right that wilshere already has a high potential in the game, but he does not have the highest possible potential. Other youngsters are given this highest potential, yet i can't think of many in the past few versions that have actually deserved to have a higher potential compared to Wilshere. What i'm suggesting is that Wilshere has demonstrated over the past 12 months clear progress and the ability to step up at every opportunity and on the biggest stages. What other youngsters have done this in the last 12 months? I honestly can't think of any others better at a similar age. If this doesn't deserve the highest possible PA then I really don't understand what does. I guess another option would be to give him a very high fixed PA?

[milnerpoint]

i see what you are saying, but the key word is potential. You are right that wilshere already has a high potential in the game, but he does not have the highest possible potential. Other youngsters are given this highest potential, yet i can't think of many in the past few versions that have actually deserved to have a higher potential compared to Wilshere. What i'm suggesting is that Wilshere has demonstrated over the past 12 months clear progress and the ability to step up at every opportunity and on the biggest stages. What other youngsters have done this in the last 12 months? I honestly can't think of any others better at a similar age. If this doesn't deserve the highest possible PA then I really don't understand what does. I guess another option would be to give him a very high fixed PA?

Why should be rated amost the likes of Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo? No one can say at the moment he will ever reach that level, we all hope he will but right now he hasnt proven that much. He has been fast tracked into the England set up because they are desperate to try and move on from the world cup, and in all honesty England are lacking a top quality playmaker at the moment, Gerrard has never done it for England, Lampard is getting on, Scholes turned his back a while ago and the likes of Carrick and the rest are just not up to scratch, he hasnt done enough to justify his england spot i would say but you guys have no choice, there isnt anyone with any experience who is good enough. Its the same reason Walcot was rushed through, no other options. Dont let the fact your english cloud everything, there are many leagues outwith england and you will very little idea of what happens in them, there is no way you can say you have seen all of the world's prospects and have compared them to Wilshere and have still decided he will be the best midfielder in the world. Your only basing him on what you see week in week out, which i bet is english football. BTW that was not in anyway ment as a dig at english people or anything like that at all, it just seems you guys get a bit "leeds united" when you have an exciting prospect coming through.

[iolodavanki]

When Raheem Sterling enters the game, will he be AML or SC?

I am interested in putting him in the database myself, any suggestions on stats (attributes and CA/PA)?

On youtube he seems to constantly cut in from the left and score with his right foot, like Lennon when play at AML.

[SCIAG]

When Raheem Sterling enters the game, will he be AML or SC?

I am interested in putting him in the database myself, any suggestions on stats (attributes and CA/PA)?

On youtube he seems to constantly cut in from the left and score with his right foot, like Lennon when play at AML.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/254807-Raheem-Sterling-Database

[Ori]

Upgrade- David Luiz , Franco Jara , Gaitan , Sidnei , Salvio , Maxi Pereira. Downgrade- Hulk, Falcao and all of Sporting Lisbon Team.

Why These 2? Porto are insanely good this season (unbeaten in league and europe iirc)

[liverpool4life1990]

Andy King??

Did you took some of Diego M's funny pills?Juve never cheated anyone,even Bergamo said that.We will be back to the top sooner or later,and then what are petty teams like yours going to do?Southern scum!

Stupidest comment ever, they didn't get relgated because thy thought serie b would be more of a challenge they got caught cheating. lol what a dread ****.

[liverpool4life1990]

Andy King??

Why should be rated amost the likes of Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo? No one can say at the moment he will ever reach that level, we all hope he will but right now he hasnt proven that much. He has been fast tracked into the England set up because they are desperate to try and move on from the world cup, and in all honesty England are lacking a top quality playmaker at the moment, Gerrard has never done it for England, Lampard is getting on, Scholes turned his back a while ago and the likes of Carrick and the rest are just not up to scratch, he hasnt done enough to justify his england spot i would say but you guys have no choice, there isnt anyone with any experience who is good enough. Its the same reason Walcot was rushed through, no other options. Dont let the fact your english cloud everything, there are many leagues outwith england and you will very little idea of what happens in them, there is no way you can say you have seen all of the world's prospects and have compared them to Wilshere and have still decided he will be the best midfielder in the world. Your only basing him on what you see week in week out, which i bet is english football. BTW that was not in anyway ment as a dig at english people or anything like that at all, it just seems you guys get a bit "leeds united" when you have an exciting prospect coming through.

That's a lot of words for you to eat their, did you see him against Barcelona basically destroyed the triumvirate of ballon d'or winners Messi, Iniesta and Xavi on his own.

[x42bn6]

That's a lot of words for you to eat their, did you see him against Barcelona basically destroyed the triumvirate of ballon d'or winners Messi, Iniesta and Xavi on his own.

Messi and Ronaldo destroyed teams single-handedly again and again and again and again and again.

Wilshere has it all to do.

[ronniel1991]

Seamus Coleman should be upgraded, hes only a right back, and a distinctly average right back at best, however in real life he has been one of evertons stand out performers in a very poor season on the right of midfield

[x42bn6]

In the next patch, all you need to look at are the Fiorentina youngsters. I guarantee at least one of them will be stupidly-overrated.

[thebigman1985]

^^^most of the serie a data is ridiculous considering how poor the league is

if you play for inter/ac/fiorentina etc and your any good your pa must be 170+

[charlo116]

^^^most of the serie a data is ridiculous considering how poor the league is

if you play for inter/ac/fiorentina etc and your any good your pa must be 170+

is that the inter that won the champions league? Clearly the quality in serie a isn't as bad as you seem to think. Not so much fiorentina but when you look at the best players at ac and inter you have the likes of Ibra, Sneijder, Eto'o, Cassano, Robinho, Pirlo, Lucio, Maicon, even Pazzini is now playing well for inter.

[milnerpoint]

That's a lot of words for you to eat their, did you see him against Barcelona basically destroyed the triumvirate of ballon d'or winners Messi, Iniesta and Xavi on his own.

he didnt destroy anyone, calm down a bit, he has had 6 good months, nothing more yet. Yes he had a good game the other night but lets see if it stays like that.

[SiN8]

If Wilshere doesn't deserve a -10, which under-20 player does then? Wilshere is currently rated the same as 136 other u-20 players. FFS, Bebe is rated the same as Wilshere!!

[x42bn6]

If Wilshere doesn't deserve a -10, which under-20 player does then?

Perhaps nobody deserves a -10 at the moment?

-10 averages out to 185, which is Xavi's level. In other words, on average, they will become the next Xavi.

Wilshere will be good, but to say he'll be the next Xavi is pushing it.

Hence the -9, which is a fair PA for him.

[SiN8]

Perhaps nobody deserves a -10 at the moment?

-10 averages out to 185, which is Xavi's level. In other words, on average, they will become the next Xavi.

Wilshere will be good, but to say he'll be the next Xavi is pushing it.

Players aren't guaranteed to reach their PA. Also, if there's no -10 PA for any u-20 players, then that's basically a 4 year period, ages 16 to 20, in the FM world without any world-class players (180+). However, from ages 21 to 24, there are 12 players in FM over 180 PA. You need those -10 PAs to ensure that the current youth group are not under-rated as a whole. In fact, researchers are already too conservative in rating young players.

Hence the -9, which is a fair PA for him.

Absolutely not. The low end of -9 is 150PA which is Scott Parker level. You could argue that Wilshere's CA is already at or above that level.

[charlo116]

Perhaps nobody deserves a -10 at the moment?

-10 averages out to 185, which is Xavi's level. In other words, on average, they will become the next Xavi.

Wilshere will be good, but to say he'll be the next Xavi is pushing it.

Hence the -9, which is a fair PA for him.

but no player bar messi has been good enough at 19 to warrant a -10. Yet in previous editions of fm there have been several.

[x42bn6]

Players aren't guaranteed to reach their PA. Also, if there's no -10 PA for any u-20 players, then that's basically a 4 year period, ages 16 to 20, in the FM world without any world-class players (180+). However, from ages 21 to 24, there are 12 players in FM over 180 PA. You need those -10 PAs to ensure that the current youth group are not under-rated as a whole. In fact, researchers are already too conservative in rating young players.

No, but in practice, most youngsters reach their PA anyway.

Players like Xavi or Zidane appear once in a blue moon.

I agree it's not a perfect system and why I advocate for dynamic PA, but I don't really think there is another Zidane in the ranks at the moment.

Absolutely not. The low end of -9 is 150PA which is Scott Parker level. You could argue that Wilshere's CA is already at or above that level.

Take a look at the editor and do a search for players who have CA around 150-160. These are very, very good players - not Scott Parker.

but no player bar messi has been good enough at 19 to warrant a -10. Yet in previous editions of fm there have been several.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[troymclure]

I like the current ability system but would like two additions.

1:- Long term form. Ie Torres right this year, Rooney this year.

2:- a -9.5. Just looking at say Chelsea we have a number of players either at 180 or just above 180 in PA. Drogba, Essien, Lamps, Terry and Cech. With the current system to get players of a similar stature to them you'd need to get a team with 3 -10's and 2 max PA -9's (180's). This is difficult with the current system, SI seem to have gotten around that by adding a bunch of fixed PA players around the 180 level but given that we don't know how any of these players are going to turn out in real life i'd prefer to see a new -9.5 PA. Something like 170-185 or so. Meaning you know the player will be good, world class, but not possibly 200 PA like with the current -10 system.

[Ori]

Perhaps nobody deserves a -10 at the moment?

-10 averages out to 185, which is Xavi's level. In other words, on average, they will become the next Xavi.

Wilshere will be good, but to say he'll be the next Xavi is pushing it.

Hence the -9, which is a fair PA for him.

Hell not, I just Checked the 10.3 Database and there are 36 (!) players which all have a SET PA of 185 or more.

Do you tell that NO ONE of the modern youngsters generation will reach these levels? Because i think some will eventually, And one of them will be Jack Wilshere.

[x42bn6]

Hell not, I just Checked the 10.3 Database and there are 36 (!) players which all have a SET PA of 185 or more.

Do you tell that NO ONE of the modern youngsters generation will reach these levels? Because i think some will eventually, And one of them will be Jack Wilshere.

Wilshere is the next Zidane or Xavi, then? Wilshere will be good, but I don't think he will be at Xavi's level. Not that that's an issue - few players will ever be as good as these players.

Your list already includes some modern-generation youngsters - Pato and Agüero, for example.

[SiN8]

No, but in practice, most youngsters reach their PA anyway.

Players like Xavi or Zidane appear once in a blue moon.

The point is that there's plenty of 180+ PA players between 20 to 24 age group. Likewise, there's an average of 5 newgens per year with 180+ PA. If you don't have any -10 PA in the u-20 group, then that's a half a generation without any world class players.

Take a look at the editor and do a search for players who have CA around 150-160. These are very, very good players - not Scott Parker.

I suggest you take a look at the database also. In 11.2, Scott Parker is above 150CA which means that a -9 for Wilshere could result in worse potential than Parker's current level.

[MarcWeir]

quick question will neil mcann be in the game as he is on trial with dundee at the moment and scored on his debut?

[Lucho]

Two words for you all: Alexis Sanchez. He has improved a lot and apparently is being trailed by Inter, Man Utd and now Barcelona.

[Ytee18]

Ali Al-Habsi needs improving in my opinion, he is keeping us up by himself at the minute in real life! Victor Moses and Charles N'Zogbia could also be tweaked a bit

[thebigman1985]

is that the inter that won the champions league? Clearly the quality in serie a isn't as bad as you seem to think. Not so much fiorentina but when you look at the best players at ac and inter you have the likes of Ibra, Sneijder, Eto'o, Cassano, Robinho, Pirlo, Lucio, Maicon, even Pazzini is now playing well for inter.

mourinho effect

i mean yioun gsters mate, especially unproven africans at fiorentina

babacars pa is stupidly high

[o JaY]

I would like to see how Andy Drury is rated. At 27, he's maxed out his PA but I think that his CA (and PA) should be raised. In game he's rated as a lower League 2, but watching him at Luton week in, week out, he's at least League 1 standard and I'd like to see how he performs in 11.3 after his big move to Ipswich. Also, a couple of Non-League players, Alex Lawless looks a class act for BSP level, Claude Gnakpa should probably have his consistency lowered, he's either a world-beater or an egg-beater irl and see how Crawley are as a team; sadly they're running away with it this season imo .

[TH21]

The data patch is soon to come and some players will be downgraded and upgraded. who will be the new favourites?

jack wilshere - surely he will be one of the best prospects now.

oxlade-chamberlain - every big club in england is after this guy

josh mceachran - his ability should have been boosted quite a bit.

downrated:

neymar - the next denilson(should be labeled that in description)

You must never watch him play I presume? He was immense at the U20 South American Cup and has been in great form for Santos

[x42bn6]

The point is that there's plenty of 180+ PA players between 20 to 24 age group. Likewise, there's an average of 5 newgens per year with 180+ PA. If you don't have any -10 PA in the u-20 group, then that's a half a generation without any world class players.

It's still not an excuse to give players -10s to "balance" things out.

I suggest you take a look at the database also. In 11.2, Scott Parker is above 150CA which means that a -9 for Wilshere could result in worse potential than Parker's current level.

I don't have the game, but then if so, Parker is still single-handedly trying to claw West Ham away from relegation, and that sort of range is still very accomplished company for Wilshere.

Let's not forget that he is nowhere near the finished article yet and he has many years to develop.

[charlo116]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

But thats not the point, a player with -10 potential isnt guaranteed to reach that potential and a player with the potential of Xavi isn't guaranteed to be as good as Xavi. Xavi has very good ratings for his postions as he is one of the greatest playmakers in the world, which isn't going to apply to everyone.

I agreeon the point that you can't say wilshere will get that good and it is a bit hard to give any player of that age a -10 but PA can't be used as a measure of how good a player is on fm.

[x42bn6]

But thats not the point, a player with -10 potential isnt guaranteed to reach that potential and a player with the potential of Xavi isn't guaranteed to be as good as Xavi. Xavi has very good ratings for his postions as he is one of the greatest playmakers in the world, which isn't going to apply to everyone.

I agreeon the point that you can't say wilshere will get that good and it is a bit hard to give any player of that age a -10 but PA can't be used as a measure of how good a player is on fm.

Jack Wilshere has a reasonable personality and will therefore reach his PA fairly easily barring serious injuries.

PA isn't assigned on the basis that they might not reach it, so it's OK to overestimate - otherwise we would be back to the situation a few years back where there were tons of -10s and it made the game silly because none of them turned out any good in real life.

[charlo116]

Jack Wilshere has a reasonable personality and will therefore reach his PA fairly easily barring serious injuries.

PA isn't assigned on the basis that they might not reach it, so it's OK to overestimate - otherwise we would be back to the situation a few years back where there were tons of -10s and it made the game silly because none of them turned out any good in real life.

thats true espescially with arsenals training facilities and coaches he should reach it but it doesn't mean he will be as good as Xavi. Its starting to look as though there really is no point to the -10 rating though because in reality by the time a player makes enough of an impact to warrant such a high rating they'll probably be given a fixed pa anyway.

[x42bn6]

thats true espescially with arsenals training facilities and coaches he should reach it but it doesn't mean he will be as good as Xavi. Its starting to look as though there really is no point to the -10 rating though because in reality by the time a player makes enough of an impact to warrant such a high rating they'll probably be given a fixed pa anyway.

Fair point, and it's why I advocate a dynamic form of PA in some way, because "you never know".

[charlo116]

Fair point, and it's why I advocate a dynamic form of PA in some way, because "you never know".

i know i'm on the same page, no matter how good the researchers are there's going to be a lot of variation between each edition of fm.