Kriss Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Is the shout option only available when we play 3d? No, it's not available if you choose to use "classic" version of tactics (sliders) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard76 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Pardon my American ignornce, but what does "Get Stuck In" mean? It means tackle hard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Ov Collyer Posted September 12, 2009 SI Staff Share Posted September 12, 2009 Retain Possession - Shorter passing, slower tempo Get Ball Forward - More direct passing, quicker tempo Pass Into Space - Try more through balls Pass To Feet - Try fewer through balls Shoot On Sight - Encourage players to shoot more often Work Ball Into Box - Encourage players to shoot less often Exploit The Flanks - Encourage movement and play down the flanks Exploit The Middle - Encourage movement and play through the middle Look For Overlap - Encourage wide players to look for the overlap Take A Breather - Fewer runs from deep, slower tempo Play Wider - Play with increased width Play Narrower - Play with decreased width Push Higher Up - More closing down, higher defensive line Drop Deeper - Less closing down, deeper defensive line Hassle Opponents - Maximum closing down, tight man marking, quicker tempo Stand-Off Opponents - Minimum closing down, loose zonal marking, slower tempo Get Stuck In - Go in with the hardest possible tackling Stay On Feet - Easy tackling; just block pass attempts Pump Ball Into Box - Pump the ball into the box from the back Clear Ball To Flanks - Clear the ball to the flanks from the back Play Even Safer - No runs from deep, dribbling or through balls (only available in Contain strategy) Take More Risks - Maximum runs from deep, dribbling and through balls (only available for Overload strategy) The shouts essentially set various instructions for various players as an override to whatever the tactics creator produced in these areas. This is all stuff that could be done previously via individually clicking players and setting instructions, but groups together logical combinations under one click, to make the whole match experience more dynamic. NB: Run From Deep was previously known as Forward Runs and was changed due to confusion as to why the creator sometimes doesn't set this instruction for advanced forward roles - essentially because they are already advanced and don't necessarily need this extra instruction telling them to get forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeast Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Thanks for all the descriptions. What would happen if you perform a shout, then do another one. Does the second one overwrite the first shout, or does the player take into account both shouts? For example,i need a last minute goal. I told my centre mid to take more risks, and then asked him to pump balls into the box a minute or so later. Does he still take the risks? Or does he concentrate on whacking the ball in the area? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Ov Collyer Posted September 12, 2009 SI Staff Share Posted September 12, 2009 Some shouts are incompatible and in this case the second one will replace the first one; i.e. you select the second one, and the first one is deactivated/removed from the active list. An obvious example is the Play Wider vs Play Narrower. The shouts are team shouts, not player-specific. If you choose "Take More Risks" it would automatically apply it to the most relevant players - e.g. it wouldn't tell your DCs to run from deep, but probably everybody else. From memory, Pump Ball Into Box would be aimed at your back line, and wouldn't change anything about your forwards. Still, there will be other examples were shouts would clash and the system would kind of mix together the instructions in the most logical way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Thanks Oliver the shouts weren't that "self explanatory" to me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeast Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Sounds brilliant, thanks for the explanation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Ov Collyer Posted September 12, 2009 SI Staff Share Posted September 12, 2009 In-game, you should be able to hover over each shout to get the descriptions above to help you decide which one to use. What we're hoping with the whole system is that the debate in the community partially moves on from "how do I set the sliders to make my team play the way I want" to the more interesting "what shouts/tactics should I use for my team in certain situations". I say partially, because some people, the tactical gurus if you like, will prefer the classic system, which is fine, and the reason we have left it in and fully functioning. There are actually two levels of using the old-style sliders: - by making overrides to individual player instructions, but still keeping the tactic in the new format (this is as Ackter is using it below). - actually saving a creator-made tactic in the 'classic' format, which will turn the UI back to the old-style and allow all the same controls as before, and none of the new ones. However, since shouts are part of the new system, you wouldn't be able to use shouts if you took this approach. The idea would be though that if you want to use the old system you probably are more likely to have made tactical 'sets' which essentially implement 'shouts' in your own way anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Speaking from an FML point of view - I use a mix of both. Tactical wizard to get the basics in place, little bit of slider tweaking for specifics and then shouts to plug up the massive gaps my slider tweaking has created. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebigman1985 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 This is EASILY superior to just sliders. As the old arguement goes does Fergie say to Rooney "Right wee chavie, ye will be aboot 17 notches mentality today ye wee baern" ?? Or does he say "Drive at the defenders ye pug face chavie" ? ps any team talk news? I hope they are improved on, otherwise I still don't know what to say at half time 2-0 up lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy_v1 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 from that footage of the ME, i think they should just scrap the 3D. I'd sooner SI spent their time improving the transfer system to make it realistic, as after four years into the game, teams like Fulham are spending £30m++ every season, youth player development (particularly an improvement on lower league player development) and also an improvement on the influence of youth coaches. I do quite like the touchline shouts, it looks a good addition, but as far as 3D goes, this is a Football Management game, not FIFA: we don't need it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerhgrrrrrr Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 from that footage of the ME, i think they should just scrap the 3D. I'd sooner SI spent their time improving the transfer system to make it realistic, as after four years into the game, teams like Fulham are spending £30m++ every season, youth player development (particularly an improvement on lower league player development) and also an improvement on the influence of youth coaches. I do quite like the touchline shouts, it looks a good addition, but as far as 3D goes, this is a Football Management game, not FIFA: we don't need it. Actually Westy, "YOU dont need it". Please keep your opinions as just that and do not pretent the FM Forum World as a whole in any shape or form agree with you. Some may but many do not! Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerhgrrrrrr Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Retain Possession - Shorter passing, slower tempoGet Ball Forward - More direct passing, quicker tempo Pass Into Space - Try more through balls Pass To Feet - Try fewer through balls Shoot On Sight - Encourage players to shoot more often Work Ball Into Box - Encourage players to shoot less often Exploit The Flanks - Encourage movement and play down the flanks Exploit The Middle - Encourage movement and play through the middle Look For Overlap - Encourage wide players to look for the overlap Take A Breather - Fewer runs from deep, slower tempo Play Wider - Play with increased width Play Narrower - Play with decreased width Push Higher Up - More closing down, higher defensive line Drop Deeper - Less closing down, deeper defensive line Hassle Opponents - Maximum closing down, tight man marking, quicker tempo Stand-Off Opponents - Minimum closing down, loose zonal marking, slower tempo Get Stuck In - Go in with the hardest possible tackling Stay On Feet - Easy tackling; just block pass attempts Pump Ball Into Box - Pump the ball into the box from the back Clear Ball To Flanks - Clear the ball to the flanks from the back Play Even Safer - No runs from deep, dribbling or through balls (only available in Contain strategy) Take More Risks - Maximum runs from deep, dribbling and through balls (only available for Overload strategy) The shouts essentially set various instructions for various players as an override to whatever the tactics creator produced in these areas. This is all stuff that could be done previously via individually clicking players and setting instructions, but groups together logical combinations under one click, to make the whole match experience more dynamic. NB: Run From Deep was previously known as Forward Runs and was changed due to confusion as to why the creator sometimes doesn't set this instruction for advanced forward roles - essentially because they are already advanced and don't necessarily need this extra instruction telling them to get forward. Excellent, "RFD" has taught me something I havent understood quite properly since CM0102 ! Will there be an "unshout" or "ignore previous shouts" option so the original tactic can be re-implemented with no "shouted" amendments, or should the player save his tactic prior to "shouting" so it can be easily re-implemented? Also OI's seemed to change / re-set to default in FM09 when formations were changed, can OI's, as a tactical overlay, be saved & implemented over a formation change? Another thing, I like to give my tactics very long names which detail the sight differences between the different sets that I create. The current "name string" for saving tactics is way too few charachters for me. Can very, very long "name strings" be posible in future?, or maybe this is unreasonable / unrealistic, and just me wanting an "FM TigerHGrrrrrr" me-specific game! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 You can turn shouts off or override with conflicting ones, so each is a three stage change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeoneBianco Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 "Wide play" Oliver, can you also make a list of the positions where this option works? Thx. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightonrock Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 The shout system looks great, it reminds me of the system in the old LMA Manager series on PS1/PS2, where you set up your tactic with your sliders, then (admittedly only had 4) shouts which were assigned to the shoulder buttons for use in the ME. You'd hit, say, R1, a little voice would shout "Play it long!" or "Use the flanks!" and the overall mentality, or whatever the relevant slider was, ie width, passing etc, would be adjusted a few notches. You hit it again, or a different shoulder button, to remove the instruction. It worked really well in that, which was admittedly a far more primitive match engine, with massive flaws, on a system that had much bigger limitations than FM on a PC/Mac. If its implemented right its a perfect way to make small changes without having to go in and tweak everything, team and individual wise, in which time the game has moved on and the change is irrelevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Ov Collyer Posted September 12, 2009 SI Staff Share Posted September 12, 2009 "Wide play"Oliver, can you also make a list of the positions where this option works? Thx. Wide Play has the following four settings: - Normal - Hug Touchline - Cut Inside - Move Into Channels Although the option can actually be set for any outfield player, it obviously has most effect for certain positions. Hug Touchline and Cut Inside would be typically used for wingers/wide midfielders to control whether they should stay out wide, or aim to cut inside. Move Into Channels would typically be used by attacking midfielders/centre forwards to tell them to make runs into the channels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilles Domoraud Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 More. Information. Please. :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
impirion Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 That match engine footage is really disappointing, for the points already listed above and for the first goal. Why is the keeper not running to close down the attacker? basically just strolls out shuffling along. If that was real life, pretty sure the goalkepper wouldn't move out that slowly. Out of all the footage you could of chosen to show of the game SI, you chose to show that?! Maybe the goalkeeper is just really slow and running full out. I do agree though, it is weird to show that particular clip, as it is already a frustratingly (relatively) often occurrence in FM09. I am confused by what people are saying about the ME. How can people tell if the ME is the same from those few minutes of video? You can't really see how the tactics are being implemented without knowing the tactics in place... I am a little disappointed with the goalkeeper graphics in the video, as when the shots come in, you don't see the keeper moving to save the ball, rather a kind of jump from the keeper standing still, and then suddenly in place holding the ball. Also, the keeper still appears to turn sideways to move sideways, which doesn't happen in real life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilles Domoraud Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 What I would like to know is - will the AI managers be using the tactics creator when constructing their own tactics? e.g will Wenger use a 4-4-2 very fluid system from the tactics creator? and will the AI deviate from this in any way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Ov Collyer Posted September 12, 2009 SI Staff Share Posted September 12, 2009 More. Information. Please.:D Ask. What. You. Want. To. Know. Then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilles Domoraud Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Thanks. Post above^ and also a different kind of question, what game do you spent most time playing? FM or FML? One more, I'm on a roll - when you made the first Champ Man's way back on the Amiga (I got introduced to the series CM93) did it take a long time to code the game and would it be possible for someone to 're-make' it? (as simple as it may be today I feel if you put that kinda game onto a phone you'd be onto a winner - I know I'd purchase and play it). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Which is the option in between hard and easy taclking ? Normal, standard tackilng I mean. Get Stuck In - Go in with the hardest possible tackling Stay On Feet - Easy tackling; just block pass attempts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
impirion Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 I guess if you untick both of the options, then you get normal tackling? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 I guess if you untick both of the options, then you get normal tackling? You could be right man over there, but I would be sure, plz SI chime in to confirm. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfDude Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 If you want normal tackling then set it to that in the tactics screen, then use either of those shouts to change to easy or hard, get rid of both to return to normal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Ov Collyer Posted September 12, 2009 SI Staff Share Posted September 12, 2009 What I would like to know is - will the AI managers be using the tactics creator when constructing their own tactics? e.g will Wenger use a 4-4-2 very fluid system from the tactics creator? and will the AI deviate from this in any way? Yes the AI uses the tactics creator, but then makes some tweaks to what it produces. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Ov Collyer Posted September 12, 2009 SI Staff Share Posted September 12, 2009 Thanks.Post above^ and also a different kind of question, what game do you spent most time playing? FM or FML? One more, I'm on a roll - when you made the first Champ Man's way back on the Amiga (I got introduced to the series CM93) did it take a long time to code the game and would it be possible for someone to 're-make' it? (as simple as it may be today I feel if you put that kinda game onto a phone you'd be onto a winner - I know I'd purchase and play it). That would be taking things off-topic - but I spend more time in FML, as that is my main project these days. The original CM released in 1992 took around 5 years for Paul and I to write, but it was done in our spare time around school/college etc. I think writing games for something like the iPhone is the modern day equivalent to what we were doing back then - one or two people people with enough motivation can make something from scratch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Ov Collyer Posted September 12, 2009 SI Staff Share Posted September 12, 2009 You could be right man over there, but I would be sure, plz SI chime in to confirm. Thanks That's right, the shouts modify things from whatever you set up originally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilles Domoraud Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Yes the AI uses the tactics creator, but then makes some tweaks to what it produces. Thanks for all the answers! I'll bet it's a great feeling seeing something done as a hobby turn into something as big as this has! It's going to be interesting playing against the AI managers as they will have added in personalities (although I can't help but think this is putting more strain on the research team and accuracy of the data). Still, I can't wait to play the demo and investigate! Cheers for all the hard work going into the games!(I did take up the offer of the free trial in FML and found it highly addictive, can't wait to try the tactics I had made in FM10) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladies love cool james Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 With the shouts would you be able to attack with width but play narrower defensively? or is that beyond scope for this version? And how do you see this evolving Ov? custumizable presets? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseboy64 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 With the shouts would you be able to attack with width but play narrower defensively? or is that beyond scope for this version? And how do you see this evolving Ov? custumizable presets? Should be possible but I don't play that way so not sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeoneBianco Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Oliver thx and last question for me: With that other option can i change the position/movements of my players on Free kick in attack, if I set "go forward"???? for example: 1- Hug Touchline, Cut Inside, Move Into Channels, mentality, roles, duties, ecc. ecc. work on free kick? 2- how can i put two players to the near post on free kick in attack? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romario999 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Ask. What. You. Want. To. Know. Then. Looking Good love you SI. Just hope teamtalks are not as tedious Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GanRob Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Can I ask to a central meedfilders to Hug Touchline to play more wide? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianStark Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 I read in a first-look article on a Dutch gaming website that touchline instructions aren't available in 2D view. Is this really the case or is it because of the first-look status of the game? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ the womble Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 They are available in 2D view - it's confirmed in this thread. These instructions are in FML already and make it a lot easier to tweak how your side is playing whilst the game is going on, they are a good improvement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Can I ask to a central meedfilders to Hug Touchline to play more wide? That sounds illogical, therefore probably not. You could maybe ask them to move into the right/left channel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightymind Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 in FM 09 the coaching options before match, half time, and after time are less, and seems not to be running with interaction according to each performance. Could we expect to have improvements in this focus please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeoneBianco Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Can I ask to a central meedfilders to Hug Touchline to play more wide? ***************** Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoppaDom Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Cannot wait for the demo, let alone the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Dave Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 kind of related to changing tactics and the match engine... When a player picks up a knock in a match, do we still have to try to guess whether the green cross means he has strained his wrist or aggravated an old knee injury that kept him out for the whole previous season? Really annoying that IRL managers are in radio contact with the physio, but in FM there's nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
englandmanager Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 i personally love the shouts, only time will tell if they are effective i've waited along long time for the option to tell my players to do various things without going into that slow loading and time consuming tactics screen they sure worked well on a poorer game of lma manager! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
englandmanager Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 double post!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I've been using FML's tactics wizard to export tactics to FM over the last few days and I have to say I'm loving the results. My teams are much more solid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckz Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Umm... correct me if I am wrong, but we were able to set the goalkeepers distribution in previous games. This isn't a new feature (although if it actually works for once, that WILL be a new feature, as my keeper always ignores my requests) Also, isn't roam from position just a fancy way of saying Free Role?Don't get me wrong, I'm all up for new features, however these do not sound like new features at all... the only new one out of those three is wide play, which in fact sounds suspiciously like the cross from option we currently have. However, I may stand corrected? I had the same impression. See below, too. All sounds good! The only thing that worries me is in the video from 5 seconds to 8 seconds the players all pass the ball to each other with headers... 3 headers in a row without the ball even touching the ground! To me thats not realistic, since when do u see the pro's in attack passing it to each other with headers?! I don't even see it for the saturday team i play for lol. Do you think its realistic? Can sure happen in European top leagues. Don't watch much lower league stuff, so no idea about that. Ask. What. You. Want. To. Know. Then. Wellll, you good folks ignored most of the questions in the first 50 posts or so.. 1) Isn't goalkeeper distribution the exact same feature that has been in FM for years? 2) Like I asked here, isn't similarly "looks for pass rather than trying to score" suddenly advertised as a new feature? 3) "You now get a monthly board update, to keep you up to date with the profit and loss for the month" from Blog Day 14 also sounds like anything but a new feature. 4) How does 'roam from position' differ from free role? Is it like a mini-free role? 5) Will players actually dribble past opponents and manage successful crosses? Are match engine questions asked here doomed? 6) Are team talks getting fixed? {x} 7) In a similar vein, are press conferences going to be less of a bother? According to Blog Day 15, there's more variation, but will getting told that you're "trying to avoid the topic" in various situations where it just doesn't make logical sense be fixed? (ie the Press Conference AI if you so want) {x} 8) What about transfer AI and reputation of both clubs and managers? {x} 9) What about telling you enough information about an injury so that you can sensibly judge whether the player needs to be substituted or not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckz Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Aaaaand is there ever going to be the option to make public all hidden stats? CM2010 shows consistency, versatility out in the open and seems to fare okay with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
celebritykiller Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Aaaaand is there ever going to be the option to make public all hidden stats? CM2010 shows consistency, versatility out in the open and seems to fare okay with that. I wouldn't like all hidden stats made public tbh. IMO consistency should remain hidden at least, maybe not versatility. And I think free role rating shouldn't be hidden If you feel strongly about might be an idea to start a debate on it in GD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tottenhamfmo7 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Cheers Miles, good work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMisBAD2010 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Wellll, you good folks ignored most of the questions in the first 50 posts or so.. 1) Isn't goalkeeper distribution the exact same feature that has been in FM for years? 2) Like I asked here, isn't similarly "looks for pass rather than trying to score" suddenly advertised as a new feature? 3) "You now get a monthly board update, to keep you up to date with the profit and loss for the month" from Blog Day 14 also sounds like anything but a new feature. 4) How does 'roam from position' differ from free role? Is it like a mini-free role? 5) Will players actually dribble past opponents and manage successful crosses? Are match engine questions asked here doomed? 6) Are team talks getting fixed? {x} 7) In a similar vein, are press conferences going to be less of a bother? According to Blog Day 15, there's more variation, but will getting told that you're "trying to avoid the topic" in various situations where it just doesn't make logical sense be fixed? (ie the Press Conference AI if you so want) {x} 8) What about transfer AI and reputation of both clubs and managers? {x} 9) What about telling you enough information about an injury so that you can sensibly judge whether the player needs to be substituted or not? ME TO would be nice to hear cant wait for demo/game ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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