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Thread: A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

  1. #3801
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    I would have bought the game the same way i have bought it every other year. I will not buy the game this year, dont like steam.

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    Eventhough I dont personally use steam for anything, nor are relishing the prospect of using it, I can understand developers trying to guard their property. And hey, at least we get accomplishments. From SI's point of view, they cant really expect more than 100 people not buying the game because of this steam thing.. and are those extra 3-4 days (that it takes this system to get cracked) enough to make 100+ people buy the game who'd normally pirate it?

    Those numbers (25% off pirated would double sales) sound way too high though. As every piracy related numbers that SI has ever announced. Ofc last year FM was available on russian sites for download even before it was released..

    E: I have had some issues with steams offline mode in the past. If BSOD or such has happened, steam usually gets corrupt and does not allow playing offline before it is been run online and database repaired. (though experiences are from few years back, and they could've significantly improved this)
    Last edited by ArseFly; 27-09-2011 at 15:42.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dune297 View Post
    Is keeping Steam away from your computer worth not having something you love?
    Yes. It's a matter of principle. I don't like this way of treatment. Hackers and crackers are going to win in the end as they always do so why make it harder for us just for a few more bucks? It doesn't make sense. I'll most probably keep playing FM11.

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    I think the issue is we shouldn't be forced to have to install Steam to play just one game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorado View Post
    I think the issue is we shouldn't be forced to have to install Steam to play just one game.
    Pretty much. Forcing us to do that is absurd. I'm the legal owner of my machine and I'm the one to chose what to and not to install on my HDD. Not Sega, not EA, not KONAMI or anyone. I don't want Steam, and if Sega wants to act like this, go ahead but my door will remain closed on such an idea. If 2 days of extra income for Sega worth more than customer loyalty and satisfaction, then I'm deeply disappointed as I thought that some of the guys in there were just like us faithful players and lovers of the series.

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    People moaning about steam ( A program which is free ) Should look how bad EA are, I decided to buy a pre owned copy of fifa 11 from game shop earlier and only when I get home do I find out you have to buy a online pass just because the games second hand, Now that is a true meaning of bad treatment of customers, Thank god SI do listen to us on these forums and it's not like it's costing anyone anything extra to download steam.

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    No one is forcing you to do anything, you have a choice, you want to play the game install steam, you dont want steam dont play the game.
    Again with the loyalty card, your so loyal that at the first sign of something you dont like you turn your back.............

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    No one is forcing you to do anything, you have a choice, you want to play the game install steam, you dont want steam dont play the game.
    Again with the loyalty card, your so loyal that at the first sign of something you dont like you turn your back.............
    Customer's always right mate. As I said it's a matter of principle, if they want to have it their way, I'm going to have it my way as well. Yea, I do want to play the game and that's where Sega are gambling their money on, the love of the players.

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    Well to put it simply, enjoy your principals, ill be enjoying FM12. The only person who will suffer in this is yourself when you miss out, but it is your choice, and i one i dont understand personally, but i wont argue over it with you. SEGA wont miss out mate, you will.

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    @Milnerpoint - I appreciate what you're saying, but you seem to have a fairly radical definition of "choice" in mind when you make your posts.

    There's no getting away from the fact that Sega have gone down a route that will unnecessarily alienate a fair bunch of customers.

    That's not good, no matter what sort of spin you want to put on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    @Milnerpoint - I appreciate what you're saying, but you seem to have a fairly radical definition of "choice" in mind when you make your posts.

    There's no getting away from the fact that Sega have gone down a route that will unnecessarily alienate a fair bunch of customers.

    That's not good, no matter what sort of spin you want to put on it.
    But the argument is that they (rightly or wrongly) feel it is necessary to go down this route. Time will tell if this is a good move or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    @Milnerpoint - I appreciate what you're saying, but you seem to have a fairly radical definition of "choice" in mind when you make your posts.

    There's no getting away from the fact that Sega have gone down a route that will unnecessarily alienate a fair bunch of customers.

    That's not good, no matter what sort of spin you want to put on it.
    There is nothing radical about the choice, you play or you dont, i like playing half life 2, if i want to i have to use steam, if i didnt want steam installed i wouldnt be able to play, that would be my choice, the same now goes for FM. There is no forcing anyone to do anything they dont want, you have the choice as a customer to say no i dont want this, ill move onto something else. Your very much right when you say this will alienate people, but enough to make any mark on the sales figures? Remember SI are a company, not your mate that makes a game you enjoy, yes they are very much more involved with their community than most game dev's, but people shouldnt mistake them as something different to a normal games company when it comes to the botton line. What we also seem to be forgetting is how many fans this could generate for SI and FM, dont count out the size of Steam and its ability to reach people who would not normally had the chance to buy the game, or at least not as easily as they can now. Change always alienates one side of the argument, that is the nature of change, some dont agree with it, some dont agree with the direction and some are quite happy with the whole situation, time will tell if the change has been for the better, my gut instanct says it will, even if they get 1% more sales this year it will have been worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    @Milnerpoint - I appreciate what you're saying, but you seem to have a fairly radical definition of "choice" in mind when you make your posts.

    There's no getting away from the fact that Sega have gone down a route that will unnecessarily alienate a fair bunch of customers.

    That's not good, no matter what sort of spin you want to put on it.
    To put it bluntly, I suspect in private the SI bods are disturbed and upset about this, especially as a lot of the walkaway-sayers are loyal customers of many years standing. On the other hand I suspect Sega bods dont give a to$$ - its all about a few more ££'s to them and to be fair that is their business.

    I always wondered when this alliance (SI/Sega) would be exposed for what it is - Corporate muscle awaiting to take over homespun ingenuity. So with the burning wreckage of BGS's Championship Manager disappearing in the rear view mirror the day we realised with FM that "thats not grandma, its a wolf in a dress", is here. A whole genre getting spoilt by greed & incompetence - shame.

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    Wow so most people are getting penalised for people who pirate the game basically, you cant just buy the disc and play you have to download and install steam and run steam everytime you want to play? Would not be aproblem for me but i imagine it would be for a lot of people. Silly move imo the game will eventually get bypassed by someone who knows what they're doing anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    I would be most grateful if you would point me in the direction of what led you to say such a thing, as, no doubt, you wouldn't want to be seen as "just throwing a post out there" that includes a baseless assumption.

    How can you defend against my choice not to buy a game that requires third party software to play? Why would I "drop into every steam related thread"? I have no interest in Steam. As for "i told you so", I wouldn't descend to a level that would even consider the possibility of saying something like this.

    I would also suggest that it won't be such a happy time for anyone who can't play their game.
    Its funny how the English abstain from saying "I told you so" so much. If a Corporation makes a mistake after specifically being advised not to by their Customers (FM09 Activation) and then they make the same decision again a few years later (FM12) when again warned by their Customers not to, IF 21st October passes with a significantly greater than normally expected number of issues arrising from it then I think "I told you so" is a very valid & deserved response. Copy & paste it to where ever the lovestruck pro Steam blind and the deaf refused to see the problem in their ignorance - they should be educated if only for next time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerhgrrrrrr View Post
    To put it bluntly, I suspect in private the SI bods are disturbed and upset about this, especially as a lot of the walkaway-sayers are loyal customers of many years standing. On the other hand I suspect Sega bods dont give a to$$ - its all about a few more ££'s to them and to be fair that is their business.
    Not purchasing because you aren't willing to install something that will take five minutes out of your day and will barely disturb you in the future hardly sounds like "loyalty" to me.
    Last edited by Dune297; 27-09-2011 at 17:33.

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    I would like to point out that the advice about going to public internet places (like hot spots, McD, ect...) is false, I wish some of you would stop saying this as you are going to cause a lot of people problems (which is unfair). I have been doing some research and it suggests that this is one of the problems when dealing with Steam, I move around a lot - living in three different countries in Europe due to work. Due to my moving around I have to change the internet connection relatively often, this is where a lot of the problems occur - it is essential that the internet connectivety is not slow or poor, if it is then Steam will cause problems. I know a lot of you that don't have problems are basically on the net 24/7 (and of course have good connectivety), most of the problems with Steam is the "going to offline mode" as shown in this clip below:

    http://youtu.be/qYACFjiuaSU

    I know for a fact that a lot of public places simply don't allow you to visit these type of sites, so for the sake of the community - please be 100% sure before you post this type of advice...

    @milnerpoint. I don't hate you so why do you even say something like that? To use a car analogy: just because I would never buy a Wartburg it doesn't mean I hate it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loversleaper View Post
    To use a car analogy: just because I would never buy a Wartburg it doesn't mean I hate it...
    If it was the only car you could buy you'd have to, or walk

  19. #3819
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loversleaper View Post
    @milnerpoint. I don't hate you so why do you even say something like that? To use a car analogy: just because I would never buy a Wartburg it doesn't mean I hate it...
    It was just a joke mate, it just so happens i appear to be in the very lucky bracket, no steam issues, no issue using steam, never needing to go back to a previous patch, no BT issus, i have it all, like i said before i have a spare room in my land of happines, its open to any FMers who arent so lucky!! hahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dune297 View Post
    Not purchasing because you aren't willing to install something that will take five minutes out of your day and will barely disturb you in the future hardly sounds like "loyalty" to me.
    I think you have played that "loyalty" card before in this debate, it didnt add much first time to be honest. Personally I have not reached the point where I will walkaway from FM12 ("loyal"?, I wouldnt brag that point), but a bad experience downloading the demo may tip the balance against it for me (see previous posts about this weekends disheartenenig"adventures" with Steam!).

    If your girlfriend sleeps wth another man and you decide you cannot forgive and walkaway - is that disloyalty? - Not a direct comparison of course, but I think that proves loyalty can be a very subjective thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    If it was the only car you could buy you'd have to, or walk
    Game. Set. Match.

    *edit*

    infact Tiger has just taken it to a new level, now steam is like dumping your cheating girlfriend, i dont think anyone can top that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    If it was the only car you could buy you'd have to, or walk
    ..or carry on driving the car you bought last year - its a practical solution ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    If it was the only car you could buy you'd have to, or walk
    If this was the case, I would find out how to make my own wheels fast - you can be sure about that. I think the entire merc, bmw, audi driving population would kick up a crap storm, though, so the Wartburg forum mods will have got to take some crash courses asap...

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    Game. Set. Match.

    *edit*

    infact Tiger has just taken it to a new level, now steam is like dumping your cheating girlfriend, i dont think anyone can top that.
    Dont you believe it, Im just warming up! ;-) I wasnt actually comparing Steam to anything - I was assimilating "loyalty", but like the rest of the fiercely pro Steam brigade - dont let truth get in the way of a good (or indeed not so good) post!

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    you've lost me with "assimilising"??
    you are right tho, none of us should let the truth get in the way, but we at least need to find out what the truth is, so far that isnt possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    you've lost me with "assimilising"??
    you are right tho, none of us should let the truth get in the way, but we at least need to find out what the truth is, so far that isnt possible.
    assimilising was a dreadful piece of mis-typing - apologies for that! :-/

    Agreed though the truth is hard to assess using the forum as a strawpoll of opinions, not representative perhaps, but on this very page it is stated that signing up to Steam takes 5 mins - took me 60 for the reasons stated previously. And that Steam is not intrusive. That is a Lie. Steam is intrusive, it affects my log off, it will affect my FM12 experience, I dont want it - it is intrusive...but as stated I will go with Steam this once, I have no choice. Pro Steamers are posting from the position of their experience which if good is great, we are all very pleased for them - but for some of us (many much worse than mine) there are problems.

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    I've asked V Bulletin if there's a way to loop a thread so there's no start and no end

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynet View Post

    Is there no sign to the end of this recycled thread of the same old, same old, see I'm at it now sigh
    closing the thread = another thing for people to moan about

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    I've asked V Bulletin if there's a way to loop a thread so there's no start and no end
    I fear that will be unnecessary! Actually am getting irritated by my own posts now.

    As someone much more famous than I once said:
    "Where there is bias, let me bring perspective. "

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    Tbh, I have no real issue with Steam whatsoever, but I do think that SI forcing its client-base to use the service is really quite poor. Tempted not to buy the game, partially due to the lack of exciting new features in FM12 and this out-of-touch decision. Disappointed.

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    May I be allowed to voice my thoughts about the 'Steam' thing? I am against it for the following reason/s. I will be paying around £25 for the game. It then becomes my property. I should not have to install and run a third party piece of software before I can use my own property. You wouldn't buy a new car and sgree to buying only the sellers own petrol. My fear is that once the 'Steam' thing is fully operational and set up there will, at some future date, a 'nominal' charge made to enable you to use 'Steam'. For the first time in six years I shall be buying FIFA Manager 2012. I am very loathe to even have to consider not buying Football Manager 2012, as I have bought every one since the 'Domark' inception of the game. I hope that 'Sega' will have a rethink but I fear that it has already been decided and that the views of it's customers are of little significance to them.

  32. #3832
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    Quote Originally Posted by oescus View Post
    May I be allowed to voice my thoughts about the 'Steam' thing? I am against it for the following reason/s. I will be paying around £25 for the game. It then becomes my property. I should not have to install and run a third party piece of software before I can use my own property. You wouldn't buy a new car and sgree to buying only the sellers own petrol. [My fear is that once the 'Steam' thing is fully operational and set up there will, at some future date, a 'nominal' charge made to enable you to use 'Steam'. For the first time in six years I shall be buying FIFA Manager 2012. I am very loathe to even have to consider not buying Football Manager 2012, as I have bought every one since the 'Domark' inception of the game. I hope that 'Sega' will have a rethink but I fear that it has already been decided and that the views of it's customers are of little significance to them.
    Just to ask a question why would Valve need to charge us customers for the Steam client? It has been up and running for about nine years now as it was created to distribute Half Life 2 originally. Valve makes a fortune on game sales through Steam and has a fairly successful game development thing going on. You just have to look at Portal 2 or even the Half Life series to see that. Not to mention they also charge developers/publishers to be able to distribute their games through the steam client.

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    everybody makes that silly assumption about things that are free, and that eventually they will cost money because it is profit going amiss, steam won't be charging anybody anytime soon, if they do then I'll eat my hat, or a hat shaped dinner

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    Quote Originally Posted by oescus View Post
    May I be allowed to voice my thoughts about the 'Steam' thing? I am against it for the following reason/s. I will be paying around £25 for the game. It then becomes my property. I should not have to install and run a third party piece of software before I can use my own property. You wouldn't buy a new car and sgree to buying only the sellers own petrol. My fear is that once the 'Steam' thing is fully operational and set up there will, at some future date, a 'nominal' charge made to enable you to use 'Steam'. For the first time in six years I shall be buying FIFA Manager 2012. I am very loathe to even have to consider not buying Football Manager 2012, as I have bought every one since the 'Domark' inception of the game. I hope that 'Sega' will have a rethink but I fear that it has already been decided and that the views of it's customers are of little significance to them.
    Enforced DRM is just a hard nosed business decision. Using Steam only (no alternatives) is a shortsighted one. May I recommend that SI never write a "Hospital Manager" game, because
    in such a game the comparable decision would be to let the most ill (and expensive to treat) patients just slip away.

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    I have a rule of thumb that when a thread brings tears to my eyes I close it, jeesh!!!!!

    What the hell next

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    A Steam client update is now available. To apply the update, click the File menu inside of Steam and then select "Check for Steam Client Updates...". The specific changes include:
    • fixed high CPU usage in game library view
      Fixed switching into offline mode
      Fixed server browser for games using the HL1 engine
      Fix favorite games showing in server browser that don't respond to pings
      Fixed defragmentation if depot file is compressed by NTFS
      Fixed retail installer setting correct game language

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    I've never had any problems with steam. And if this can help the game in the long term, great .

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    I hope people will keep updateing fm2011 cos I wont be buying Fm2012 for the same reasons as most people on here i.e lack of new features and the steam issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boydy123 View Post
    I hope people will keep updateing fm2011 cos I wont be buying Fm2012 for the same reasons as most people on here i.e lack of new features and the steam issue.
    What issue do you have with Steam? Perhaps we can help.

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    I dont want it on my system and I just dont see the worth in spending what little money I have on a game which is basically an updated less buggy FM2011, yeah there is one new decent feature but thats it and untill the demo proves me wrong I aint going to buy the game, even if the game was really good I would not buy it cos I want to be in control of whats on my computer and not be forced to have software on there, now I know you will reassure me that Steam is great etc but it could be the best thing ever and I still will not want it on my computer, its a shame really Ive been a loyal customer of Football Manager since the first ever Championship Manager, I appreciate you trieing to help Dune.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oescus View Post
    May I be allowed to voice my thoughts about the 'Steam' thing? I am against it for the following reason/s. I will be paying around £25 for the game. It then becomes my property..
    Actually it doesn't. You have a licence to use the software but it isn't "your" software.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    I have a rule of thumb that when a thread brings tears to my eyes I close it, jeesh!!!!!

    What the hell next
    What the hell indeed - maybe an we'll have to update Steam to effectively fix the bugs! Only joking ;-)

    Oh........! :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    It's statements like this that give no feedback to SI, Sega or Steam.

    Tell us what you don't like about it. Or what you would prefer instead.

    What makes it horrible for you?
    I don't think I need to reiterate every point on here that has been beat to death, but I often go without Internet access for weeks, sometimes months at a time, which means I cannot access Steam. I am not looking forward to traveling around Montevideo just to find a coffee shop that has free wi-fi, or paying for wireless Internet at my temporary residences down south. That's all, really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dune297 View Post
    Steam is horrible because it has over 30 million accounts and 3 million gamers online at any time of day. Makes sense!
    Microsoft ring a bell? How many users and still not that great of a product?

    Okay.

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    Been away for a week or so and missed all this fun!

    Approaching 4000 posts on this subject, many users posting multiple messages. Shall we say 2000 unhappy users who are thinking of not buying this years edition?

    All due respect but 2000 missing sales isn't going to make a dent, especially if people are more reluctant/unable to pirate the game and make a purchase (time will tell)

    I admire SI and SEGA for having the balls to try and combat a growing problem for pc games.

    I

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    Quote Originally Posted by Do you like dogs? View Post
    Microsoft ring a bell? How many users and still not that great of a product?

    Okay.
    Windows? Much better than Apple's OS.
    Last edited by Dune297; 27-09-2011 at 23:33.

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    I knew that Steam was published by Valve, that was my point actually. To make a brilliant analogy : when I buy a car to Mercedes, I don't have to get my key at BMW to be able to drive that same Mercedes (and give them my name and all and thus receive ads constantly telling me to buy them a car next time). Valve is a publisher just like SEGA.

    It was already -imho- a scandal for Civ5 (Konami)... and now SEGA with FM, sadly. EA does the same thing with BF3 and Origin yes, but it's an EA game, and Origin's an EA platform, that sells only EA games. Even if it's disturbing, it's at least more acceptable. The truth is Uniloc, Byteshield and any other DRM costs money unlike Steam who's even probably willing to pay SEGA (as gamers who activate their FM on Steam become instantly potential customers to them). Don't be so innocent.

    Fighting piracy is one -good- thing, forcing FM players to create an account, give personal info and download a client from a third party company is quite another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Babos View Post
    I knew that Steam was published by Valve, that was my point actually. To make a brilliant analogy : when I buy a car to Mercedes, I don't have to get my key at BMW to be able to drive that same Mercedes (and give them my name and all and thus receive ads constantly telling me to buy them a car next time). Valve is a publisher just like SEGA.

    It was already -imho- a scandal for Civ5 (Konami)... and now SEGA with FM, sadly. EA does the same thing with BF3 and Origin yes, but it's an EA game, and Origin's an EA platform, that sells only EA games. Even if it's disturbing, it's at least more acceptable. The truth is Uniloc, Byteshield and any other DRM costs money unlike Steam who's even probably willing to pay SEGA (as gamers who activate their FM on Steam become instantly potential customers to them). Don't be so innocent.

    Fighting piracy is one -good- thing, forcing FM players to create an account, give personal info and download a client from a third party company is quite another.
    Steam can be setup with less personal info than it took to create an account on this forum, you don't constantly receive ads either if you don't want too.

  49. #3849

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    It seems I have to be content with the updated 11.3 version this year. Instead of pricing the game fairly, SI decides to do this ridiculous thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football_Manager08 View Post
    Bad move in my opinion. This restricts people playing in other countries who do not have Internet Connections (which inturn leads to them maybe pirating it themselves when they wasn't going to do that in the first place).

    Also, If this is an anti-piracy measure - there really is no point. Hackers always win... unfortunately.

    I would reconsider that move.
    Are you dumb? If they dont have internett they cant pirate the game. Simple. And trying to say people who have the hardware to play FM don't have internett is wrong. Limited sure, but they have some connection!

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    Whinge Whinge Whinge.

    Decision has been made and it's obvious they are gonna stick to it.

    By all means suggest a better method for FM2013 for Sega and Sigames to consider but they're not gonna change their decision for FM2012.

  52. #3852
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babos View Post
    I knew that Steam was published by Valve, that was my point actually. To make a brilliant analogy : when I buy a car to Mercedes, I don't have to get my key at BMW to be able to drive that same Mercedes (and give them my name and all and thus receive ads constantly telling me to buy them a car next time). Valve is a publisher just like SEGA.

    It was already -imho- a scandal for Civ5 (Konami)... and now SEGA with FM, sadly. EA does the same thing with BF3 and Origin yes, but it's an EA game, and Origin's an EA platform, that sells only EA games. Even if it's disturbing, it's at least more acceptable. The truth is Uniloc, Byteshield and any other DRM costs money unlike Steam who's even probably willing to pay SEGA (as gamers who activate their FM on Steam become instantly potential customers to them). Don't be so innocent.

    Fighting piracy is one -good- thing, forcing FM players to create an account, give personal info and download a client from a third party company is quite another.
    That DRM remark is actually not correct. Steam takes a cut. Publishers go there because it generates sales. You have this store attached to a platform that millions of users are logged in to at any given time - it's in your business interest to appear there.

    As has been detailed earlier in the thread, discount popups can be disabled and the default tab changed from Store to something else if these are not to your liking.

    I don't understand the third party issue to be perfectly frank. Does it matter if it's run by SEGA or someone else if it works? I mean we're not talking spammers or telemarketers or whathaveyou, it's a publishing partner that helps with distribution and exposure. If SEGA could do this themselves they probably would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    A Steam client update is now available. To apply the update, click the File menu inside of Steam and then select "Check for Steam Client Updates...". The specific changes include:
    • fixed high CPU usage in game library view
      Fixed switching into offline mode
      Fixed server browser for games using the HL1 engine
      Fix favorite games showing in server browser that don't respond to pings
      Fixed defragmentation if depot file is compressed by NTFS
      Fixed retail installer setting correct game language
    So, I updated the client last night and just now wanted to see how it works:


    By loversleaper at 2011-09-28


    By loversleaper at 2011-09-28

    Am I the only one experiencing this?...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Scab View Post
    If SEGA could do this themselves they probably would.
    Which begs the question, would we prefer all publishers to require their own distribution/authentication application (some already do) so you'd have several extra apps with equal number of possible problem sources? or is it better to have one which specialises and therefore in theory (practise too actually) does the job far more efficiently?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loversleaper View Post
    So, I updated the client last night and just now wanted to see how it works:
    I'd be wondering about the "your internet connection may not be correctly configured for Steam" is this a router problem or possibly ISP?
    They have a section on that sort of issue, maybe something there that gives a clue.

  56. #3856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    Which begs the question, would we prefer all publishers to require their own distribution/authentication application (some already do) so you'd have several extra apps with equal number of possible problem sources? or is it better to have one which specialises and therefore in theory (practise too actually) does the job far more efficiently?
    As someone who owns some 200 PC games on Steam and a book case worth of boxed copies, I probably don't need to answer that.

    I suppose someone exclusively playing FM may see things differently though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    I'd be wondering about the "your internet connection may not be correctly configured for Steam" is this a router problem or possibly ISP?
    They have a section on that sort of issue, maybe something there that gives a clue.
    I can go back online with no difficulties...

  58. #3858
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    Look, why don't you try this:

    1: Turn off computer

    2: Unplug internet connection/turn off wi-fi, routers, modems, ect...

    3: Turn on computer

    4: See for yourself....

  59. #3859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loversleaper View Post
    Look, why don't you try this:

    1: Turn off computer

    2: Unplug internet connection/turn off wi-fi, routers, modems, ect...

    3: Turn on computer

    4: See for yourself....
    Not to rub it in, but i do that every day, my router gets turned off the night before, and my laptop is shut down every night. Have you contacted steam support at all?

  60. #3860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    Which begs the question, would we prefer all publishers to require their own distribution/authentication application (some already do) so you'd have several extra apps with equal number of possible problem sources? or is it better to have one which specialises and therefore in theory (practise too actually) does the job far more efficiently?
    Thats a good point really, if SEGA released their own 3rd party program you needed to play FM, would their be a huge outcry over it? Is it not better to use a company proven to be good at offering this service?

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    Not to rub it in, but i do that every day, my router gets turned off the night before, and my laptop is shut down every night. Have you contacted steam support at all?
    When you wake in the morning, you truely and honestly start up your computer without internet connection and when you hit the "Start Steam in offline mode" you have no problems?

    I knew about the client update so with the fix list I thought it was best to wait...

  62. #3862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loversleaper View Post
    When you wake in the morning, you truely and honestly start up your computer without internet connection and when you hit the "Start Steam in offline mode" you have no problems?

    I knew about the client update so with the fix list I thought it was best to wait...
    I have my laptop right beside me at the moment, with FM running, and i cant connect to my works wi-fi as i am not allowed too. I'm not just saying it to back up my point its honestly the truth, the only time my laptop is connected to the net is if i turn my wi-fi on at home, my router stays off unless i want to use the net for either the laptop, the BT vision or my Xbox, i never have issues at like your having, thats why i would suggest contacting steam support, i think you have an issue we cannot help you resolve.

  63. #3863
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    milnerpoint still defending SI after almost 4,000 posts

  64. #3864
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romanista. View Post
    milnerpoint still defending SI after almost 4,000 posts
    we're talking about steam here not SI, keep moving

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    I would like to request anyone not living in la-la land and that has Steam to please try the following:

    1: Turn off computer

    2: Make sure when you start up there is no internet connection so Steam throws up the "Retry connection" or "Start Steam in offline mode" option

    3: Hit the "Start Steam in offline mode"

    4: Report what happens

    I would like to hear from a larger audience, because I can't imagine that I am all alone in this (as suggested)...

    Many thanks

  66. #3866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romanista. View Post
    milnerpoint still defending SI after almost 4,000 posts
    Not here to defend milnerpoint, he really dont need that, but why the atitude towards him?

  67. #3867
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    Why am i living in la-la land? Because my steam works like its suppose too?

  68. #3868
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loversleaper View Post
    I would like to request anyone not living in la-la land and that has Steam to please try the following:

    1: Turn off computer

    2: Make sure when you start up there is no internet connection so Steam throws up the "Retry connection" or "Start Steam in offline mode" option

    3: Hit the "Start Steam in offline mode"

    4: Report what happens

    I would like to hear from a larger audience, because I can't imagine that I am all alone in this (as suggested)...

    Many thanks
    Loversleaper, dont take any offense, but dont you think there is a better forum to make this kind of questions? Like... let me think... Steam Forum?

    If you have a problem with steam, deal with it, contact forum support, go to steam forum, google it, but... whats the sence to come here and complain about it, when... today... we dont need steam to play FM?

    Or is just part of a big quest against SI/Steam?

  69. #3869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    Loversleaper, dont take any offense, but dont you think there is a better forum to make this kind of questions? Like... let me think... Steam Forum?

    If you have a problem with steam, deal with it, contact forum support, go to steam forum, google it, but... whats the sence to come here and complain about it, when... today... we dont need steam to play FM?

    Or is just part of a big quest against SI/Steam?
    I know that you don't see the problem here, but since we are all forced (from SI) to use Steam I think this is a valid discussion. We need to know how this works and think it is unfair that we are now in a situation where we have to contact other institutions due to someone simply purchasing a FM game...

    We are playing "the blame game" here, now I ask you: do you think it's fair?

  70. #3870
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loversleaper View Post
    I know that you don't see the problem here, but since we are all forced (from SI) to use Steam I think this is a valid discussion. We need to know how this works and think it is unfair that we are now in a situation where we have to contact other institutions due to someone simply purchasing a FM game...

    We are playing "the blame game" here, now I ask you: do you think it's fair?
    If i think it's fair? Of course i think it's fair! It's theres game, it's theres rules! If SI/Sega want to use steam to activate/play the game, who are you, or me, or anyone else, to say..."oh that's not fair!" Why?
    If you dont like it:

    a) dont play the game
    b) earn alot of money, buy SI, and then make your own rules

    But again, if you have a problem with steam, you should, for your own convenience, contact steam support! I mean, if i have a problem with my windows, or my graphic card drivers... and if thats the reason why i cant play the game... what should i do first? Come here and blame SI for it?

  71. #3871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loversleaper View Post
    I can go back online with no difficulties...
    Another day, another problem it seems. "What the hell next?" indeed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    I'd be wondering about the "your internet connection may not be correctly configured for Steam" is this a router problem or possibly ISP?
    They have a section on that sort of issue, maybe something there that gives a clue.
    Just for the record:


    By loversleaper at 2011-09-28

    I surprised that no one has tried this themselves it seems...
    Last edited by Loversleaper; 28-09-2011 at 09:55.

  73. #3873
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loversleaper View Post
    I would like to request anyone not living in la-la land and that has Steam to please try the following:

    1: Turn off computer

    2: Make sure when you start up there is no internet connection so Steam throws up the "Retry connection" or "Start Steam in offline mode" option

    3: Hit the "Start Steam in offline mode"

    4: Report what happens

    I would like to hear from a larger audience, because I can't imagine that I am all alone in this (as suggested)...

    Many thanks
    Offline mode requires valid Steam credentials to be saved locally on the computer. Make sure you ticked the "remember my password" checkbox the last time you logged in when online and it should work. If you haven't, you'll get the error messages you've been describing.

  74. #3874
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scab View Post
    Offline mode requires valid Steam credentials to be saved locally on the computer. Make sure you ticked the "remember my password" checkbox the last time you logged in when online and it should work. If you haven't, you'll get the error messages you've been describing.
    You are kind of suggesting that I was born yesterday...

    Please people, I know what I am doing in these matters because when I hit the Steam icon it automatically logs into my account, I don't know how to get this point accross anymore - if you don't believe me then what can I honestly say? Truely and honestly I have these issues and I wish that someone tries it for themselves...

  75. #3875
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    I have, but you dont seem to believe me. Last time, have you contacted steam support? If not, then why not? If so, then what have they advised?

  76. #3876
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    I did try it. With the box checked - works. With it unchecked - get the exact same errors as you. The auto login probably wouldn't work if this was the case, but for the sake of checking everything, I don't suppose "Don't save account credentials on this computer" is checked under Settings > Account for you?

  77. #3877
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scab View Post
    I did try it. With the box checked - works. With it unchecked - get the exact same errors as you. The auto login probably wouldn't work if this was the case, but for the sake of checking everything, I don't suppose "Don't save account credentials on this computer" is checked under Settings > Account for you?
    I have been through this dance and charade and funnily enough I just uploaded that screenshot (just in case you asked!)...


    By loversleaper at 2011-09-28

    P.S. Didn't include the date and time (due to powersaving)... hold on a sec, thanks...
    Last edited by Loversleaper; 28-09-2011 at 10:26.

  78. #3878
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    Loversleaper,

    Have you try unistalling Steam, and make a new clean install?

  79. #3879
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    Hm, my best guess would be that you maybe have some 3rd party application that clears out temporary files/similar and kills the saved credentials in the process? If not, I'm at a loss.

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    By loversleaper at 2011-09-28

    In realtime...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    Loversleaper,

    Have you try unistalling Steam, and make a new clean install?
    Of course, I have and I did update the client as Kriss suggested. Anyway, I just bought a new laptop today cause I am incredibly tired of this asus (got a dell now) so I will unistall it from this computer and reinstall it on the new one later on tonight. I know you guys are just trying to help me...

  82. #3882
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    ClientRegistry.blob in the Steam folder is apparently the file holding account credentials. Is this intact after your offline reboot, still there and same-as-before-reboot when you try to use Offline Mode?

  83. #3883
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scab View Post
    Hm, my best guess would be that you maybe have some 3rd party application that clears out temporary files/similar and kills the saved credentials in the process? If not, I'm at a loss.
    If that were the case then everytime I open the computer then it would ask for my password (which is not the case). I still cannot believe that I am the only one, I have been going through several forums on the internet where other users are having this same problem...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scab View Post
    ClientRegistry.blob in the Steam folder is apparently the file holding account credentials. Is this intact after your offline reboot, still there and same-as-before-reboot when you try to use Offline Mode?
    I went through this with Dune just a few pages back...

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    Let's see if his new lapdog does the trick, poor guy needs a break.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    Let's see if his new lapdog does the trick, poor guy needs a break.
    Please, Kriss, if anyone comes and says I need to clear caches, cookies and what not - do me the favor, huh? I'll see all you happy campers tonight...

  86. #3886
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    Sorry if you feel like you're going around in circles, I must've missed those posts. Beats me, then. As long as the credentials are there it's supposed to play ball. Better luck with the new laptop I guess. :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loversleaper View Post
    Please, Kriss, if anyone comes and says I need to clear caches, cookies and what not - do me the favor, huh? I'll see all you happy campers tonight...
    If I may just state the obvious only load apps you really need to before trying Steam, then if it works loading your other stuff might actually point us to something significant.

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    Damn I just pop on and this thread is still going around in circles lol ... Don't actually see point in moaning anymore, Your gonna need steam and there's noway around this, It's just a simple case of buy it or don't, I have no quarrels with SI / Sega to be honest, I don't have to pay for steam so I honestly can't see the problem, I'm buying FM12 I know that for sure

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    There is nothing radical about the choice, you play or you dont, i like playing half life 2, if i want to i have to use steam, if i didnt want steam installed i wouldnt be able to play, that would be my choice, the same now goes for FM. There is no forcing anyone to do anything they dont want, you have the choice as a customer to say no i dont want this, ill move onto something else. Your very much right when you say this will alienate people, but enough to make any mark on the sales figures? Remember SI are a company, not your mate that makes a game you enjoy, yes they are very much more involved with their community than most game dev's, but people shouldnt mistake them as something different to a normal games company when it comes to the botton line. What we also seem to be forgetting is how many fans this could generate for SI and FM, dont count out the size of Steam and its ability to reach people who would not normally had the chance to buy the game, or at least not as easily as they can now. Change always alienates one side of the argument, that is the nature of change, some dont agree with it, some dont agree with the direction and some are quite happy with the whole situation, time will tell if the change has been for the better, my gut instanct says it will, even if they get 1% more sales this year it will have been worth it.
    This doesn't make any sense. FM has been available on Steam for almost 5 years now. Binding it solely to Steam will reduce numbers, not increase them.

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    i dont see a problem with this move, its a good one and its moving forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    This doesn't make any sense. FM has been available on Steam for almost 5 years now. Binding it solely to Steam will reduce numbers, not increase them.
    It might reduce the number of current buyers a bit but 50M people will see the ads, of course we won't know the actual effect of that for some time but you have to think it might be considerable.

    I remember I didn't find FM through adverts, I spotted it on a shelf in Tesco and only picked it up because I'd already tried the two that were rivals at that time and found them wanting, if FM had been full price at that moment history would need rewriting (in my case)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CMisBAD2010 View Post
    i dont see a problem with this move, its a good one and its moving forward.
    How is it moving forward, exactly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    It might reduce the number of current buyers a bit but 50M people will see the ads, of course we won't know the actual effect of that for some time but you have to think it might be considerable.

    I remember I didn't find FM through adverts, I spotted it on a shelf in Tesco and only picked it up because I'd already tried the two that were rivals at that time and found them wanting, if FM had been full price at that moment history would need rewriting (in my case)
    Yea, but that's the same number of people that saw the ads last year.

    Milner was saying that somehow making the game require Steam to activate means that more people will have the opportunity to buy it. Which clearly doesn't make sense.

    Also, a reduction in choice is a step backwards, not forwards.

    That's been the motto of the 21st century will. Technology improves but businesses use it to limit the consumer, rather than expanding their options*

    * Obviously doesn't apply to every single technology advancement, but in regards to consoles, gaming, some mobile phone advancements and so on.

  94. #3894
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    As a heavy user of Steam (and a big fan of all the Manager games all the way back to... 1994? Maybe? I just want to clear up issues for both sides in one post. If it's too long, just look for the issue that's bugging you and read that part.


    1) I have to be connected to the internet all the time! I use my laptop on the train! I can't play this game! -- False: You only need to connect your laptop to the internet -once- (You could do this from a Starbucks wifi hotspot if you want). After that you can click offline mode, hide Steam and it can disappear to the system tray right beside your volume control. You'll launch FM2012 from a desktop icon or the start menu and never see anything from Steam again. If you're unable to set Steam into offline mode, you are experiencing a support issue and should contact Steam support.

    2) Steam has no benefits and I'm being punished by being forced to use it! -- False/True. You -are- being forced to use it, no denying that, but Steam has a -lot- of benefits. I'll list the ones you probably don't care about first; a friends application that lets you talk to friends ingame without pausing or slowing your game, an ingame browser for looking on the internet during those long loading screens, a screenshot system where you can hit a key and it'll take a screenshot to share on a page, a launcher to launch your games from that lets you have them all in one place and not cluttering your start menu or desktop.
    Now for the one you -should- care about. Automatic updates. Maybe you don't like them and maybe you don't want to use them. If so, that's fine, turn off automatic updating, or use Steam in offline mode. However, for a lot of users who are not as tech savvy as you, this will be the only way they will get an improvement to their gaming experience. Think about them for a second. This is a quick and easy and fast way for them to get all the bug fixes that make a game much more enjoyable. For those of you who really do hate the automatic updates, you should be aware that automatic updates make it easier for the developer to produce and output patches, meaning that your game will be patched faster and more often creating a better gaming experience for you too, even if you go downloading the updates on your own.
    Also, from anywhere in the world, even if you lose the DVD (You still have a DVD) you can download the game and play again. If you get kidnapped by pirates and have to live the rest of your life in Randomville, Randomica, you can download your game with no worries and just start playing. (if the game uses Steam cloud, you can even continue your savegame as if you've never left off, because it'll transfer your saves too)

    3) Steam will use up all my bandwidth! (I don't know if someone mentioned this yet, but it's an issue) -- True (maybe): If you have a bandwidth cap that's quite restrictive and you have a lot of games on Steam (which I suspect very few of the people reading this do have) and they all get updated in one day, that can hit your bandwidth cap... maybe... possibly. Never had it happen with my... 200-odd games n Steam, but it's possible!

    4) Steam is a virus we're being forced to install! -- False: Steam is a service with lot of features that users often appreciate. I run all my games through Steam, even games that don't get to take advantage of all of the features. Often developers are begged to use Steamworks in their game and a lot of people will choose a Steam version over another version.

    5) This won't stop piracy! -- False/True: It's true that nothing stops piracy forever, it is possible to "delay" piracy. Just because we can't stop it totally doesn't mean we shouldn't -try-. If you looked at the other anti-piracy measures they could've chosen, you'd know that Steam is one of the best. Diablo 3 requires you to have a constant internet connection, won't let you pause, closes your game if you don't touch it for an hour and if you lose your internet connection it sends you back to your last checkpoint... These kinds of DRM systems are not rare. They picked a system that's popular with users, not one that is the most secure. There would always be DRM, probably all requiring a one-time online activation these days. They chose a service that provides a lot of benefits in addition.

    6) Steam is a resource hog/data miner! -- False: If you're so concerned about the data mining, just play your game offline (though they don't do data mining. They'll ask permission before they even check tosee what hardware you use and it's totally optional to help them provide a better service). Steam is always running in the background on every computer I have and my dad's computer in his house and they're using very old computers with no slowdown at all (a millisecond added to your startup time that's probably less than Adobe Acrobat uses when it starts up your computer.)

    If anyone has an issue, for either side that I'm missing, let me know and I'll add it to the post if people really want, but my main point is really the "This won't stop piracy" point... Steam is "one of" the nicest anti-piracy measures being used right now. If you saw the options that SI turned down in favour of this one, you might be a lot happier with them.

  95. #3895
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loversleaper View Post
    I would like to request anyone not living in la-la land and that has Steam to please try the following:

    1: Turn off computer

    2: Make sure when you start up there is no internet connection so Steam throws up the "Retry connection" or "Start Steam in offline mode" option

    3: Hit the "Start Steam in offline mode"

    4: Report what happens

    I would like to hear from a larger audience, because I can't imagine that I am all alone in this (as suggested)...

    Many thanks
    Steam started in offline mode, as its supposed to.

  96. #3896
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    i just downloaded an update today for the steam client that fixed a problem with offline mode.

    Might be a beta release only though.

  97. #3897
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    I am gonna be frank with you. I have already pre-ordered the game so ill download it 21st October from Gamersgate. If that vires called steamshit creates a single problem with me. I am just gonna download the pirated version for the first time and use it.

    The solution 2 years ago was much better, i autenticated the game via another serverprogram(dont remember its name now, EDIT Uniloc) and could play without the need of additional virus programs where the rest were waiting theirs to download via Steamshit the first day. :-D
    Last edited by Yasko75; 28-09-2011 at 13:23.

  98. #3898
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yasko75 View Post
    I am gonna be frank with you. I have already pre-ordered the game so ill download it 21st October from Gamersgate. If that vires called steamshit creates a single problem with me. I am just gonna download the pirated version for the first time and use it.

    The solution 2 years ago was much better, i autenticated the game via another serverprogram(dont remember its name now, EDIT Uniloc) and could play without the need of additional virus programs where the rest were waiting theirs to download via Steamshit the first day. :-D
    Clearly I didn't respond to your specific issues in my post above, so could I ask what your specific issue is with Steam that you think is so bad that it's worth pirating the game over? Perhaps there's a solution that doesn't involve adding to the piracy statistics that lead to even more restrictive anti-piracy techniques. (I'll also point out that Steam is a strong reliable service. When a developer uses a third party program, they're unlikely to find one as reliable as Steam. Something that day-one purchasers of The Witcher 2 discovered when they used a third party system from Namco Bandai (a large games company, not a tiny one, but a company that didn't have a system as robust as Steam) and discovered that they couldn't play the game at all until a patch was released removing this activation. Something that the developers are now in court because Namco are telling them they should not have removed it)

  99. #3899
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dune297 View Post
    Windows? Much better than Apple's OS.
    Uh.... No.

  100. #3900
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yasko75 View Post
    I am gonna be frank with you. I have already pre-ordered the game so ill download it 21st October from Gamersgate. If that vires called steamshit creates a single problem with me. I am just gonna download the pirated version for the first time and use it.

    The solution 2 years ago was much better, i autenticated the game via another serverprogram(dont remember its name now) and could play without the need of additional virus programs where the rest were waiting theirs to download via Steamshit the first day. :-D
    "Steamsh*t"? Calling it a virus? Really? Do you understand what Steam is and has done? Steam is the program that has saved PC Gaming. Steam is the program that took hundreds of indie developers under their wing and made some of them millions, such as Frostbyte. Believe it or not, without Steam, you might be playing FM on console as that's where the sales would be. Steam is the #1 digital distribution service in the world, and believe it or not, it's as far from a virus as it can be. I'd love to hear how it's a virus if you can explain such to me, as I've been using it for 7 years and have bought 263 items from it. It's never failed and is probably my favorite little program. So once again, why don't you tell me how this is a "virus" or "sh*t"?

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