A Cheeky Disquisition on Random Events

So there I was, minding my own bidness, cheerfully mismanaging Killymoon and its untalented band of kids and castoffs into the NI2 dumper when, all of a sudden, one of my boys caught a packet of food poisoning. Against all odds, this got me to thinking: whoa, how very twenty-first century it would be to develop a big database of random personal events to inflict on these derelicts and goose up the immersion a tad as I drove my team resolutely into the toilet.

Now I know that I'm scaring the horses here but just holster that sidearm for a minute. I'm not suggesting that SI add a bunch of no-brainer events that simply pop up and require no thought (like the aforementioned salmonella-laden frozen pizza). What I envision is a robust package of thought-provoking conundrums that require a little head-scratching by the embattled manager. For example, your assistant manager informs you that Schmedlap, a valued striker, has requested a three-week leave to attend his wife's pregnancy and the birth of little Schmedlap Junior. Now, you may grant the leave and lose Schmeddie for three weeks (but he'll love you forever). Or, you can deny the request in which case he'll stay and play but suffer a serious drop in morale. In addition, there's a chance that several other players will suffer morale drops in sympathy as well. Go on, admit it, you'd have to think on that one awhile.

There are two key factors in constructing these events. First, we must minimize the number of “lap-droppers” in which something simply happens and there's no real managerial decision, no garment-rending as the alternatives are considered. We must balance the options for the events such that each one is close to a 50-50 decision and comes fully-equipped with both benefits and disadvantages. And, second, unlike the press conference questions, each of the event options should carry significant consequences.

As a bonus -- and here's the real payoff for SI -- we can enlist the fan community to do the bulk of the work. SI can construct a simple online form (within a forum thread) to describe the event, the manager's options, the expected consequences (as presented to the manager) and the actual percentage chance for each outcome. I can imagine that the pace of form-filling would be tremendous. SI could then take the hundred best events, revise them as required and code them into the game. Such an Event Package would add a lot of flavor to the game in and of itself and help alleviate the soporific Pre-Match/Post-Match Press Conference Cycle.

As a final note, think EU3. It's a different type of game, of course, but the fan community there has created an extensive and vibrant set of events that raises the level of immersion immensely.

Interesting points, agree with a lot of them...it translates from real life - Gary Twigg of Shamrock Rovers missed a fixture earlier this season to get married in Scotland.

Quite interesting i must say, would definately add more immersion to the game providing certain events weren't overused.

I must also commend you on your posting style, you have a rather good range of vocabulary for someone posting round these parts.

Too well written for an internet forum

AytchMan, I think I like everything about you. You're a fellow Texan, you play EU3, and you have a good idea here. Would definitely add to the realism. Only concern is that the events would pop up too often, but I'm sure that could be prevented.

Agreed that you need to dumb it down a little for us internets folks! ;P Now as far as the actually meat and potatoes of the post I agree. SI could basically just code a DB for the events which includes a code for % chance to occur type thing, or in EU3 parlance a MTTH type thing. I like the idea, as long as once a Marriage happens to a guy once he isn't getting married again 3 months later and the like.

Thanks for the positive feedback, everybody. I fully agree that individual events need to be kept rare and non-repetitive so as to remain fresh. Still, with a typical squad of thirty or forty players, the system should enable perhaps five or six player-events per season. Plus, some of the events can be club-related, for example, a community-based activity that affects fan support and attendance.

I fully agree, if they keep the chance of certain events happening to a minimum and not overdone then it would add more depth to that element of the game. The idea to choose the outcome rather than just be told is also a great idea, it will bring a sense of manager development as you start to bring out a certain personality with the options you choose.

Good idea.

Believe it or not, I was thinking somewhat similar thing about the commentary and press conferences.

Community can contribute new commentary and press conference Q&A, so they will not be repetitive and boring.

Hi

I like this idea, it adds a nice dimension to management/player relationships.

Maybe it can be developed and linked with certain clubs who use psychologists. As a manager you could ask your psycho (!) the impact of your decision on that player. Though whether we want psychologists in the game is another matter but they are there?

Nice articulate OP a joy to read.

K

No only a great read mate, but i also agree with the idea - a couple of random events requiring choices coming out of a large pool of events.

Good stuff.

I want to add my praise to a well written post with a genuinely good idea.

It would get my vote.

I would also like the idea of the 'nutters' in the game asking for unreasonable requests and getting upset if you don't allow them to attend a photo shoot for a magazine in hawai (Very high reputation, low professionalism).

That's a good idea. EU3, Mount and Blade and other Paradox games are perfect example at how users can improve the game.

I like it, especially the win/lose aspect of a proper 50/50 decision like attending your child's birth - downside an absence from the team but upside of a re-motivated and loyal player.

Make it so, SI.

I suppose the closest that we get to this currently is when you are asked to choose between the Physo treating the player or giving an injection for next match. That can effect players moral etc.

K

The Lambs comment about the team nutjobs reminds me of a point that I failed to mention: the distribution of unpleasantness. Off the top of my very flat head, I'd say that the set of events should run about:

• 10% positive (that is, all options offer mostly benefits),
  
• 40% neutral (each option balances the benefits and disadvantages) and
  
• 50% negative (all options induce nausea and/or clinical depression).
  

I think that it's important to skew the distribution toward the negative because it's a reflection of real life. Most managers spend most of their time fighting alligators, not sipping mint juleps. Equally important, I'd re-emphasize that the set of options associated with each event should involve serious consequences and be designed to bring the 50-50 headscratch. Ideally, at different times of the season and under different circumstances, you might well pick a different option for a given event.

What the hell is EU3?

What the hell is EU3?

Europa Universalis 3. Very highly involved real time strategy game.

Anyway, this is a very good suggestion and exactly the kind of thing the game needs to feel more personal. There might be problems if a licensed database player hits the "start a fight in a nightclub" script, but I'd definitely like to see this in one form or another because it would make things feel less samey.

Too well written for an internet forum

This idea also get my vote.

Kudos to a great idea and very well written post.

Haha, I enjoyed reading your post - very droll. I also agree with your point, it would add a lot of realism to the game and SI should really consider this.

I tihnk it's a fantastic idea and for once a very well written post around these parts.

It would have to be carefully implemented however as you don't want a player and his team mates turning on you because you asked a player to play a Champions League Final instead of taking time off for some personal event. Possibly the option to say to the player 'play the next match and then you can have 2 weeks off'.

I think player interaction as a whole needs to improve. At the moment players get angry with just about any action you try to take. You should be able to justify certain decisions to the players with an explaination rather than just giving them a yes or no response to any requests they have. For example my Goalkeeper had expressed that he wished to move to a larger club in order to further his career yet as soon as I offer him out to clubs he became unhappy with his treatment.

I have to say that I love this idea, I would love to see some amateur events happen that Semi-Pro or Professional clubs would not have for obvious reasons. For example, clubs that are based at a University having players leave for Uni break, or having to miss a game for work reasons etc.

Quality post! I like the idea too, a great way to add immersion and more life:thup:

However, i'm not sure it's so esily doable, true the europa universalis games have something ressembling that, but it's done spontaneously by the fans and those things aren't directly integrated in the game. i find it hard to imagine a company going: hey, we want to add a new feature, customers please do the work for us! Plus i think you're too optimistic about the number of events that could be added, but to be fair that's not really a problem, it just makes these kind of events rarer (5 or 6 per seasons seems really too much, there aren't that many things in a players life that could affect a club like that).

A better way for SI would be to add a few events and the possibility to edit and add them easily i think.

Shaka, I've been giving this idea a fair amount of thought for a while and you've expanded it into an area I hadn't even considered: a differentiation of events based on professional status. Good job.

djosey--

I'm glad you like the idea and I appreciate your caution. However, I wouldn't characterize SI's likely response for such an effort as “hey, we want to add a new feature, customers please do the work for us!”. Rather, if SI indeed adopts the idea, I can easily imagine them setting out to create a core set of events on their own and then soliciting additional content from the fan community. Their approach then would be much closer to “we're adding some events and we'd like you to join in and add some more. We'll even give credit for the best ones. See if you can top ours”. Personally, I think the fan base would be eager to support such a project.

I'm also confident that a large number of events could be created. Remember, every event need not be momentous, say, at the level of a life or death crisis or even a wedding or funeral. Many can be – and indeed should be – potential dustups over the most mundane issues imaginable. Such as: a player runs off the training ground to sign an autograph. One of the coaches chews his arms off for it and now you've got a major personality/authority clash. The important thing to remember is that the event need not be major, merely(!) the consequences.

Having said that you don't want there to be so many events that they happen on a weekly/monthly basis. Also you want some events that have a positive impact on the team otherwise we'll just end up with a ton of unhappy players and broken dressing rooms

I'd like to see an SI take on this since it's, well, an actual good idea.

For the positive aspect one why not with senior, professional personality player have one every now and then start a charity for the kiddies or something. The charity can spread to other such players and would cost time on occasions. The clubs rep increases, player rep increases, morale raises, tickets sold.

Now that FM11 is out the door, I've bumped this thread (one performance only) to see if we can get a response from SI on whether random events might be a serious candidate for inclusion in FM12. Judging by the comments, the idea was pretty well received and, I humbly submit, would add a lot of flavor and immersion to the game. SI?

Too well written for an internet forum

Indeed, but lets not discourage people. If all threads were like this, even if the whiners could write this well, this forum would be a much happier place.

OP: good ideas too.

Just as long as the game could remember that Schmedlap wife woudl not be able to repeat the birth of a child for at least 10 months after ..

While I will admit the concept has it's merits, the last thing I want if to give the whiners all the more ammunition.

We'll go from, "WAAA!! Too many injuries" to "WAAA!! He's breeding too much!"

While I will admit the concept has it's merits, the last thing I want if to give the whiners all the more ammunition.

We'll go from, "WAAA!! Too many injuries" to "WAAA!! He's breeding too much!"

They'll always find something though mate.

They'll always find something though mate.

Yes, but at leasy them whining about injuries... or god forbid CCC's is better then babies and weddings.

Yes, but at leasy them whining about injuries... or god forbid CCC's is better then babies and weddings.

I don't know, I'm kinda bored of repeating myself on those subjects and rarely bother anymore. At least this would lead to new discussions for the first few threads.

So there I was, minding my own bidness, cheerfully mismanaging Killymoon and its untalented band of kids and castoffs into the NI2 dumper when, all of a sudden, one of my boys caught a packet of food poisoning. Against all odds, this got me to thinking: whoa, how very twenty-first century it would be to develop a big database of random personal events to inflict on these derelicts and goose up the immersion a tad as I drove my team resolutely into the toilet.

Now I know that I'm scaring the horses here but just holster that sidearm for a minute. I'm not suggesting that SI add a bunch of no-brainer events that simply pop up and require no thought (like the aforementioned salmonella-laden frozen pizza). What I envision is a robust package of thought-provoking conundrums that require a little head-scratching by the embattled manager. For example, your assistant manager informs you that Schmedlap, a valued striker, has requested a three-week leave to attend his wife's pregnancy and the birth of little Schmedlap Junior. Now, you may grant the leave and lose Schmeddie for three weeks (but he'll love you forever). Or, you can deny the request in which case he'll stay and play but suffer a serious drop in morale. In addition, there's a chance that several other players will suffer morale drops in sympathy as well. Go on, admit it, you'd have to think on that one awhile.

There are two key factors in constructing these events. First, we must minimize the number of “lap-droppers” in which something simply happens and there's no real managerial decision, no garment-rending as the alternatives are considered. We must balance the options for the events such that each one is close to a 50-50 decision and comes fully-equipped with both benefits and disadvantages. And, second, unlike the press conference questions, each of the event options should carry significant consequences.

As a bonus -- and here's the real payoff for SI -- we can enlist the fan community to do the bulk of the work. SI can construct a simple online form (within a forum thread) to describe the event, the manager's options, the expected consequences (as presented to the manager) and the actual percentage chance for each outcome. I can imagine that the pace of form-filling would be tremendous. SI could then take the hundred best events, revise them as required and code them into the game. Such an Event Package would add a lot of flavor to the game in and of itself and help alleviate the soporific Pre-Match/Post-Match Press Conference Cycle.

As a final note, think EU3. It's a different type of game, of course, but the fan community there has created an extensive and vibrant set of events that raises the level of immersion immensely.

Too well written for an internet forum

I want to add my praise to a well written post with a genuinely good idea.

It would get my vote.

I would also like the idea of the 'nutters' in the game asking for unreasonable requests and getting upset if you don't allow them to attend a photo shoot for a magazine in hawai (Very high reputation, low professionalism).

Love these ideas; SI have actually added a bit of it. I had an Estonian player ask for a leave of absence because he was homesick. My ONLY criticism with it was that the length of the absence was not mentioned before I had to decide. I agreed and discovered that he would be gone 28 days. I wouldnt have agreed had I known the players absence would have been that long.

You could add stuff like car crashes and players getting cancer, or more controversially locked up for criminal charges like affray and rape etc.

I'd like two of my players to get married. Half the squad would be behind player A and half behind player B. The next season they would have a breakup when one cheats with John Terry. The player I drop would cause his factions morale to plummet.

Ive always wanted one of my players to whack Joey Barton in the locker room after he put a ciggie out in his eye;

or have Michael Owen develop amnesia and forget that he is injury prone.

Id like to see Rafa Benitez successfully manage a club.

Love the idea. It definitely gets my vote.

nothing law breaking, or any thing that bring's the game into dissrapute will be added to the game nore would death's or car crashe's/ thing's like that have been disscussed before and Si wont go there for many reason's which are logical. years ago in the CM days some players would man handle the reff and get 6 months bans, but they removed it..

Too well written for an internet forum

especially this one

The concept is an excellent idea if it is implemented well.

Love these ideas; SI have actually added a bit of it. I had an Estonian player ask for a leave of absence because he was homesick. My ONLY criticism with it was that the length of the absence was not mentioned before I had to decide. I agreed and discovered that he would be gone 28 days. I wouldnt have agreed had I known the players absence would have been that long.

Mancini might have said the same about Tevez. It's not unrealistic.

Mancini might have said the same about Tevez. It's not unrealistic.

You misread. I said that the length of the absence should be mentioned before the manager accepts or declines. Thats the way things work in a real workplace.

You misread. I said that the length of the absence should be mentioned before the manager accepts or declines. Thats the way things work in a real workplace.

Leave of absence is always and has always been a month. There you know now. Don't do it again if you don't want them gone so long.

SI can construct a simple online form (within a forum thread) to describe the event, the manager's options, the expected consequences (as presented to the manager) and the actual percentage chance for each outcome.

An example of such form (in text form) here?

I have imagined it;

Event: Player runs car into pole while drink driving?

Option A: Fine player and drop to reserves. (consequence, poorer team performance but postiveve example to whole team)

Option B: Fine Player but continue playing. (Team performance maintained, overall drop in discipline)

Good start, Melb, and thanks for reminding me. Here's a more detailed format that covers all the info I think would be needed.

• --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
• Event Title: [simply for reference]
  
• Event Description: [This is the specific information displayed to the manager when the event occurs.]
  
• General Consequences: [This is a very general description of the possible options and likely results available to the manager.]
  
• Option A: [Each option presents a specific choice available to the manager (with NO percentages).]
  
• Option B:
  
• ...
  
• Option Z:
  
• --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
• Possible Results
  
• Option A Chances/Results
  
• A1:
  
• A2:
  
• Option B Chances/Results
  
• B1:
  
• B2:
  
• ...
  
• Notes:
  
• --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  

And an example:

• --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
• Event Title: Papadopoulis Requests Parental Leave
  
• Event Description: Your Assistant Manager has informed you that midfielder Kimosabe Papadopoulis has requested leave to attend the birth of his child. Papadopoulis would be absent from the team and unavailable for three weeks starting tomorrow.
  
• General Consequences: Papadopoulis considers this an important test of his standing in the team. If you approve the leave, he will likely commit his future to Futility United. If not, he will probably seek a transfer. In addition, teammates Thermonucleadakis and Anthraxakides will likely suffer morale drops as well.
  
• Option A: Grant Request for Leave.
  
• Option B: Deny Request.
  
• --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
• Possible Results
  
• Option A Chances/Results
  
• A1: 30% -- Papa goes on three-week holiday. Short-term morale rises to Super. Long-term morale rises one notch.
  
• A2: 70% -- Papa goes on three-week holiday. Short-term morale rises to Super. Long-term morale rises two notches.
  
• Option B Chances/Results
  
• B1: 50% -- Papa stays, short-term morale drops to Very Poor. Long-term morale drops one notch. Teammates unaffected.
  
• B2: 50% -- Papa stays, short-term morale drops to Very Poor. Long-term morale drops two notches. Both teammates' morale drops to Very Poor.
  
• Notes:
  
• --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  

Finally, note that it's a simple example and could be fleshed out with all sorts of variations. If this project goes ahead, I'd be inclined to leave the variations to SI but the more enterprising combinatorial geniuses out there might take a shot at some complex events.

Thumbs up from me - a wonderful concept. One suggestion though: the consequences should be left vague, for the manager to work out from experience. This is the practice in FM. For example, when you fine a player for getting a red card, you aren't presented with consequences; you don't know until you've done it what the consequences are.

Thus, I would go for: "Event Description: Your Assistant Manager has informed you that midfielder Kimosabe Papadopoulis has requested leave to attend the birth of his child. Papadopoulis would be absent from the team and unavailable for three weeks starting tomorrow. Papadopoulis considers this an important test of his standing in the team."

[Love your cool Greek names, though!]

Also, would you want a third, compromise option, e.g. "Allow one week's leave"?

Great idea, hope to see this in the future!