SI, don't add any fluff for next year, please!

Just sort out the buggy things as they are atm, I'll still buy the game.

Transfer system has been an old story, that never was settled and this years edition gave us agents, to

muck up the daily life of a manager even further.

Transfers has been an issue for years in one way or another, please just sort it out without fluff and

many players will welcome that change. An every year edition doesn't mean, WE want more, I think

rather WE want a perfect game.

IF I can't loan out my youngsters or sell the deadwood reasonably, something is very wrong with the

transfer system. So fix that first before we get any more "fun stuff", we don't need it.

The way you are working on the game right now, it's like watching a Mandelbrot Fractal.

Chaos Theory, with every new item just makes it more complicated.

i'm with froghat, like the mandelbrot reference by the way. this years edition is riddled with very frustrating bugs, my top three would be not being able to compare players, not being able to sell players (i couldn't give away a 23 year old england international in one of my games) and the game crashing when i took over the england managers job and had the audacity to set up a new team selection. prior to about 3 or 4 years ago i don't remember these games being as buggy as they are now. its only the fact that the people that buy these games are a combination of addicts (me) and rose tinted spec wearing lap dogs (half the people on these forums) that these games still sell. i'm a 36 year old games addict and i honestly can't remember a particular game or series that year on year has this many bugs. if i produced a piece of work this riddled with errors in my line of work i'd be out of business by now. i can understand having problems with new things but how can you use a format from a previous game and bugger up the things that worked, i won't say well, but adequatly? please si, stop taking the wee wee out of us by producing this second rate product, if it wasn't that championship manager still sucks balls i wouldn't be buying this anymore. i know this isn't everyones experience of the game but its mine and many other people but if you lap dogs feel the need to defend si and fm11 please feel free to do so.

rant over

Sadly I'll have to third that...

Habit/addiction won't last forever if the game keeps on requiring Job's patience or unfaltering faith in SI...

This year's game isn't much worse or buggier than FM10, but it somehow maneges to be more annoying. The new bugs are even more gamebreaking and seem to be the result of "overmedication" of the old ones...

Last year Top Stars were sold for ridiculously high fees, this year they go at face value.

Last year average players were too easy to get rid of, this year you can barely sell good or great players.

Not to mention the fact many other traditional flaws haven't been fixed yet, despite years worth of reports, in-depth analysis and several GBs worth of savegames we uploaded in order to provide proof and help...

Player agents would have been a great idea, hadn't the transfer market wasn't still been dodgy, frustrating, unbalanced and ultimately random. And let's not forget players' personality has taken a turn for the worse, and now we have to deal with 12 yo brats and greedy agents too. Cue in "private chats" that will likely end up with a player getting upset, or with the manager gutlessly saying sorry just to avoid (more) locker room shenanigans.

But no matter how careful you are while talking with/to your players, some of them will just be unhappy anyway...

Coming next: Football Shrink 2012?

All in all, I think it'd be much better focusing on fixing what was wrong with the previous edition of the game rather than throwing at us a couple of shiny new features which will almost certainly add new issues to an already complicated and bug-prone game...

I agree they should polish what they have... but polish doesn't sell, therefore there will be new features as there has been every year

Sports interactive should adopt a 2 year plan strategy. Ie One year introduce new game additions ie 3d match engine in previous editions and agents in the current addition. Then in the next year fix the design because getting things perfect on first try is a difficult process and we understand that. At the moment added new features is great and all but if you can fix up the previous errors it will just build up into one big fustratiing game.

No doubt the sports interactive team have an incredibly hard job but keeping things simple instead of overcomplicating things will please current audiences more. There are far more cries of fustration over bugs in the game then cries of the game being too boring.

i' not being able to compare players

You can, same way as always

ETA: Personally I like the addition of agents & player interaction (though I do agree it needs to be less negative & players being too sensitive too it) as these add to the realism of being a football manager

Personally, the only big name players I've seen transfer listed were a few at Man City (Balotelli, Hart, Johnson, Kompany) but Man City finished 9th in the league & won nothing so I wasn't really surprised

As for selling & loaning out players I've not had much of a problem, just needs a little patience, just because I've transfer listed a player I don't expect clubs to be interested immediately

Agree wholeheartedly with the OP

agreed, screw new features, just make the ones we have work.

Perhaps clear up the interaction abit because it's absurd that my player get's very low morale and starts to hate me when i ask him to switch the ball to the opposite flank. That, and a little tweaking on the training.

Agree - they really don't need any new features anymore. In fact it might be better to scale back some of the stuff they can't simulate properly like interactions with players.

If they have to introduce features, make them "cosmetic", like more of the youtube/facebook stuff.

I agree, i would still buy it, so long as everything was polished. FM11 could be a brilliant game but the bugs let it down which i why i have stopped at least until the next patch.

Agree - they really don't need any new features anymore. In fact it might be better to scale back some of the stuff they can't simulate properly like interactions with players.

Maybe SI should give an ingame start option of turning off player interaction, press conferences, agents etc

Sports interactive should adopt a 2 year plan strategy. Ie One year introduce new game additions ie 3d match engine in previous editions and agents in the current addition. Then in the next year fix the design because getting things perfect on first try is a difficult process and we understand that. At the moment added new features is great and all but if you can fix up the previous errors it will just build up into one big fustratiing game.

No doubt the sports interactive team have an incredibly hard job but keeping things simple instead of overcomplicating things will please current audiences more. There are far more cries of fustration over bugs in the game then cries of the game being too boring.

Yep this. FM10 was the polish, so given that 09 can be seen as the new additions. Hopefully FM12 will be the polish year.

Sports interactive should adopt a 2 year plan strategy. Ie One year introduce new game additions ie 3d match engine in previous editions and agents in the current addition. Then in the next year fix the design because getting things perfect on first try is a difficult process and we understand that. At the moment added new features is great and all but if you can fix up the previous errors it will just build up into one big fustratiing game.

No doubt the sports interactive team have an incredibly hard job but keeping things simple instead of overcomplicating things will please current audiences more. There are far more cries of fustration over bugs in the game then cries of the game being too boring.

most people cant wait for the impending patch next month, let alone expect a game to take 2 years to be 'complete'

as much as i enjoyed FM10 and enjoyed previous versions of the game, come summer time i always want to see a few changes to liven things up a bit.

paying for a data update with bug fixes would not appeal to me, no matter how much value for money i have had over the years.

i want a new game each year. i don't expect miracles but i want a few new additions

most people cant wait for the impending patch next month, let alone expect a game to take 2 years to be 'complete'

as much as i enjoyed FM10 and enjoyed previous versions of the game, come summer time i always want to see a few changes to liven things up a bit.

paying for a data update with bug fixes would not appeal to me, no matter how much value for money i have had over the years.

i want a new game each year. i don't expect miracles but i want a few new additions

this!!

It would be very boring only getting new features every two years, and i would not pay just for a data update and patch for the following season

most people cant wait for the impending patch next month, let alone expect a game to take 2 years to be 'complete'

as much as i enjoyed FM10 and enjoyed previous versions of the game, come summer time i always want to see a few changes to liven things up a bit.

paying for a data update with bug fixes would not appeal to me, no matter how much value for money i have had over the years.

i want a new game each year. i don't expect miracles but i want a few new additions

I think this attitude is part of the whole problem (no offense intended).

Basically SI/SEGA has built up a market model where they have to release a new version of the game every year, and it is expected to include new features, so people are not just paying for a data update. The problem with this is that there is not enough time to design, develop, implement, test and balance/polish these new features in the time from the release of the final patch (probably in February) and until they have to release the next version.

This gives a messy implementation and spending 4 months after release dealing with those problems, which again takes valuable time away from development of next release.

This then also means that some bugs/annoyances are not fixed due to time constraints, and carries over into the next release, so you get the pattern like this: FM09 unfixed issues appear in FM10, unfixed issues from FM09 and FM10 appear in FM11, unfixed issues from FM09, FM10 & FM11 appear in FM12 etc. ... this decreases the quality of each release, as they become more and more bogged down by issues that should have been fixed years ago but never were, because they were not game stopping issues.

The 6-8 months development cycle also means that there will not be any truly radical design changes in the game .. it will just be a series of small add-ons to the existing game, as that is all there is time for.

I don't think you will have to worry though, as I seriously doubt that SEGA/SI will ever do anything but a yearly release as it would be too much money out of pocket to do a 18-month or 24-moth release cycle. But I think it is too bad for the series, as it will never really evolve. I know that many think it is just perfect as it is ... but who knows what else could be done with the game if it was given time??

But I find it funny how impatient sports simulation gamers are ... I mean all other genres, people often wait 2-4 years between new releases of their favorite games. I have been waiting since 2005 for a new release of my favorite game Crusader Kings, and I will get my sequel in 2012. It took them almost 3 years from the orginal game before an expansion pack was made. It is just that people have been getting used to it ... If they changed the policy there would be bitching and moaning, but people would be back to play the next FM game anyways, as it is simply the best one around at the moment.

People are impatient for a patch because the game has been bug ridden upon the original release...

I can see the "need" for a yearly roster update, as we all love to play with the most recent transfers etc, but in truth there wasn't an ACTUAL need for a lot of new features if the price to pay was getting a half-finished product with a fresh coat of paint on it to make it look all shiny.

To be honest, there haven't been THAT MANY vital additions over the years... It's a football management game, let's have an outstanding game in the core aspects of the game [matchday, tactics, training and transfers], then let's give a try to media and dressing room interaction.

People can't wait when they are expecting... Had SI taken one extra year of testing before introducing players interaction or press conferences, in order to have it working in a less schyzophrenic way, we would have been spared some frustration, and SI would have been spared endless rants about X or Y not being top-notch etc.

If they'll tell me FM2012 will be a BUG-FREE data update for FM2011, I'd pre order now and I would stop moaning right now!

Don't be ridiculous! If they didn't add some flashy, gimmicky features every year that don't work but sound good how could they justify that £25+ price tag? The marketing team would be up in arms too!

Froghat;

I agree with your opinions that the game is flawed, however you cannot honestly expect a perfect game as per your very example 'chaos theory' (even if we dont consider its most serious ramifications) suggests that every system has its flaws and in effect nothing is perfect.

Everybody should just accept what they are given and enjoy it on its merits.

While I agree with the OP on the idea, I can see how SI needs to announce flashy features too. Luckily, they can just combine both by using the right marketing.

Not: "We fixed the transfer system."

But: "The transfer system has been overhauled to become the most realistic transfer module ever." (and they can then add 2 random screens that combine some data that was already available)

Not: "Opponent club AI fixed."

But: "New opponent management module introduced. Now, opponent managers will make better transfer and financial decisions."

Not: "Limit the amount of money so teams don't swim in it after 8 seasons."

But: "Economy model has been transformed to prefectly reflect modern football"

Don't be ridiculous! If they didn't add some flashy, gimmicky features every year that don't work but sound good how could they justify that £25+ price tag? The marketing team would be up in arms too!

Cut 5£ off the price tag and it's a fair price for a well-polished data update...

And anyway, EA Sports have been sellng full-priced glorified data updates of their famous franchises for years between one Next-Gen game and the next... So I guess SI and SEGA could use ONE measly sabbatical year to fix the infamous bugs and issues we've been reporting since forever...

The "quick buck now" policy is a dangerous one... even long-time fans, hopeless FM-olics and die-hard fanboys could and will grow tired of buying a game which has been plagued by the SAME OLD BUGS year after year... Bells and whistles are fun and dandy, but they can't make up for more important shortcomings.

It's like adding electronic gizmos to a car built on a flawed chassis, or adding HPs to an ill-designed engine... The car will fall apart in the end, no matter how many cosmetic thingies they add.

P.S. Speaking of EA Sports... FIFA had been churning out mediocre games for a while when PES came along and kicked their ass... And it took years to EA to get back on track. Let's hope SI won't go down the same route...

Uh, guys, for FM2010 Miles said that they were focussing on polishing the game, and we were in the same situation we are in now, (as we were for FM2009, FM2008, FM2007, FM2006, FM2005).

This happens each release.

Everybody should just accept what they are given and enjoy it on its merits.

If the makers of CM ever get their act together this game is finished, more people than ever are having issues and the "nothing wrong with the game" trolls are very quiet this year, mercifully!

Maybe there are so many problems this tme it will cause a sea change in the way the game is designed/marketed, but while a large company is involved(Sega) I wouldn't think so.

No offence but this type of reply really annoys me. FM is a product just like any other, if you bought a tv with only one channel you wouldn't just enjoy it on it's merits, why should anyone do the same with FM?

If the makers of CM ever get their act together this game is finished, more people than ever are having issues and the "nothing wrong with the game" trolls are very quiet this year, mercifully!

Maybe there are so many problems this tme it will cause a sea change in the way the game is designed/marketed, but while a large company is involved(Sega) I wouldn't think so.

Im not denying that FM11 is a flawed product and I am in no way saying that people are not entitled to submit they're opinion but the horse has been flogged to death, I can understand that a great many a people feel that the game should be without the bugs in which it posseses.

My reply to this thread was a rebuttal of the OP in which he suggested that the developers should stop adding bits and pieces and concentrated on ironing out the flaws in the game (which btw im not denying exist). Chaos theorys very definition is that every complex system has its flaws and by no ways possible is it to create a perfect system

I mostly agree with the op. I have always wished si would take a year out just to make current features and game play (and newgens) a more polished article.

That said, the addition of agents and player interaction this year has been a good game gripper for me. Now I have to really put thought into who I buy and sell and wether it'll be worth the hassle buying ballotelli etc.

Also, the match engine has greatly improved IMO. Much more refined.

However, the transfer problem is in great danger of ruining my game and I eagerly await the new patch. If I put arshavin up for sale, I expect a little interest ffs.

My reply to this thread was a rebuttal of the OP in which he suggested that the developers should stop adding bits and pieces and concentrated on ironing out the flaws in the game (which btw im not denying exist). Chaos theorys very definition is that every complex system has its flaws and by no ways possible is it to create a perfect system

Still, there are some bits and pieces that have higher chances to screw up an already unstable balance...

Player agents alone would have been just fine.

Private chats instead has led to players overreacting, thus causing a lot of internal turmoil, with repercussions on the already dodgy transfer market... so to avoid having every unsettled player attracting all sorts of attention, SI probably had to cut on AI transfer's aggressiveness.

Fair enough, as long as that prevents them from buying players they should logically be interested in... and prevents you from getting rid of your deadwood

No offence but this type of reply really annoys me. FM is a product just like any other, if you bought a tv with only one channel you wouldn't just enjoy it on it's merits, why should anyone do the same with FM?

If the makers of CM ever get their act together this game is finished, more people than ever are having issues and the "nothing wrong with the game" trolls are very quiet this year, mercifully!

Maybe there are so many problems this tme it will cause a sea change in the way the game is designed/marketed, but while a large company is involved(Sega) I wouldn't think so.

If you don't like the game, or are not enjoying it, don't buy any future versions. Simple.

I still can't figure out how to have young players tutored. Why they have to change a system that works is beyond me, especially now the new system is broken

No offence but this type of reply really annoys me. FM is a product just like any other, if you bought a tv with only one channel you wouldn't just enjoy it on it's merits, why should anyone do the same with FM?

If the makers of CM ever get their act together this game is finished, more people than ever are having issues and the "nothing wrong with the game" trolls are very quiet this year, mercifully!

Maybe there are so many problems this tme it will cause a sea change in the way the game is designed/marketed, but while a large company is involved(Sega) I wouldn't think so.

Very unfair of you to only quote that little bit and not take his whole post in context.

As for the nothing wrong with the game trolls? You know what, they are quiet this year, but then on reflection are the 'this game is unplayable and broken' trolls are few in number, they are just able to shout loudly and open lots of threads.

Is the game perfect? No. Is it broken? No. Will it get better by patch 3. I hope so and feel sure it will.

I still can't figure out how to have young players tutored. Why they have to change a system that works is beyond me, especially now the new system is broken

Haha, I thought exactly the same. I'm totlally lost as to when and why I can tutor players. I have a couple of young prospects in my team who I'm desperate to tutor to get their det up and I can't.

Also the problem of a lot of newgens not wanting to be tutored by highly rated players in my team.

It's so frustrating, can't loan em, can't tutor em I'm getting stuck with a load of whinging teens!

I think this attitude is part of the whole problem (no offense intended).

Basically SI/SEGA has built up a market model where they have to release a new version of the game every year, and it is expected to include new features, so people are not just paying for a data update. The problem with this is that there is not enough time to design, develop, implement, test and balance/polish these new features in the time from the release of the final patch (probably in February) and until they have to release the next version.

This gives a messy implementation and spending 4 months after release dealing with those problems, which again takes valuable time away from development of next release.

This then also means that some bugs/annoyances are not fixed due to time constraints, and carries over into the next release, so you get the pattern like this: FM09 unfixed issues appear in FM10, unfixed issues from FM09 and FM10 appear in FM11, unfixed issues from FM09, FM10 & FM11 appear in FM12 etc. ... this decreases the quality of each release, as they become more and more bogged down by issues that should have been fixed years ago but never were, because they were not game stopping issues.

The 6-8 months development cycle also means that there will not be any truly radical design changes in the game .. it will just be a series of small add-ons to the existing game, as that is all there is time for.

I don't think you will have to worry though, as I seriously doubt that SEGA/SI will ever do anything but a yearly release as it would be too much money out of pocket to do a 18-month or 24-moth release cycle. But I think it is too bad for the series, as it will never really evolve. I know that many think it is just perfect as it is ... but who knows what else could be done with the game if it was given time??

But I find it funny how impatient sports simulation gamers are ... I mean all other genres, people often wait 2-4 years between new releases of their favorite games. I have been waiting since 2005 for a new release of my favorite game Crusader Kings, and I will get my sequel in 2012. It took them almost 3 years from the orginal game before an expansion pack was made. It is just that people have been getting used to it ... If they changed the policy there would be bitching and moaning, but people would be back to play the next FM game anyways, as it is simply the best one around at the moment.

That sums it up pretty spot on I think.

Add me to the list of customers who agree with this. WAY to much fluff in this year's game.

Very unfair of you to only quote that little bit and not take his whole post in context.

As for the nothing wrong with the game trolls? You know what, they are quiet this year, but then on reflection are the 'this game is unplayable and broken' trolls are few in number, they are just able to shout loudly and open lots of threads.

Is the game perfect? No. Is it broken? No. Will it get better by patch 3. I hope so and feel sure it will.

As for the 'this game is broken' trolls being quiet this year as you put it, I'm afraid you're quite wrong in several respect's. Just read the general forum and the bugs forum, you'll find many of the posts are both eloquent and, unfortunately, true.

You arbitrarily say the game is not broken in your post, I'm glad to hear your game is working so well but the transfer system is by now universally regarded as being broken, as is the player interaction module, which by all accounts is affecting the former. This is such a huge part of the game that by being broken then almost by definition so is the game, this isn't to mention the CTD's that are affecting many games.

To be honest I'm pretty easy going with my game, I'm just soldering on through the bugs as I know they'll be fixed eventually. What annoys me are the people on the forum who seem to think criticising, what is if we're honest a very buggy game, is some sort of conspiracy to bring down SI, it isn't.

Yeah fook the fluff. There are a couple very important things in the game and they should be perfect. Concentrate on that. ME, tactics, players, development. I really can't believe how bad you make tutoring. Why don't you just let me tutor players? Let me do my mistakes. Every player should have an option "tutor by xy" and hey if i chose wrong then let my player be negativly affected. Also i should be able to tutor not just for a period of 1 year. I want my older guy tu totor my younger guy for all the time they spend together at the club. In RL i wouldn't need 2 minutes to set this up. In the game it takes my hours to do it. Year after year.

Also just let me

praise youngster

the second one star player or whatever

and declare i want to buy him

with one or two clicks. How many clicking i have to do to accomplish this now. Like 10-20, goddamnit! Fook the fluff. Make it real. In RL a manager just has to say i like him. He will be a star and i would buy him in a minute. No longer then 10 seconds to do this. In the game a minute. Make the game more like RL, and not like some piece of software that is completely flawed and we all have to bare.

Alos what the hell is with the set pieces? I make a change and my set pieces get grayed out!!! Alos my players instructions change. This is unaceptable. if i set it my way, it's my way Don't change a fooking thing!

Goddamnit SI. I love to hate you

I took what I believed to be the most salient part of his post and quoted it in my reply, in Lenny's magnanimous reply he didn't seem to have a problem, don't really see why you should.

As for the 'this game is broken' trolls being quiet this year as you put it, I'm afraid you're quite wrong in several respect's. Just read the general forum and the bugs forum, you'll find many of the posts are both eloquent and, unfortunately, true.

I'll remember to ask you what should and shouldn't bother me in the future then. Cheers

And I'm not wrong about the quietness of the trolls (on both sides tbh). There have been worse years on these forums.

I praise the people who are able to report bugs eloquently, they help make the game better for all of us.

However, sadly for every eloquent post or thread there is an idiot complaining that injuries are bugged or that their team only shoot from 30 yards, these posts help no one, because there is so much ignorance in them.

Anyway, I would suggest that we both want the same thing, a better FM11.

I am struggling away in the BSS atm because the transfer thing doesn't bother me down there and by the time my teams up in the EPL (hopefully) I hope and pray that a patch will have fixed things.

It would be nice to have the set piece creator we thought was going to be in this year's version

I'

And I'm not wrong about the quietness of the trolls (on both sides tbh). There have been worse years on these forums.

I mean't you're wrong to call them trolls this year. I think they mostly have a genuine point this time, the game is awful in it's current state. However the people perennially on the other side of the argument are more vociferous than ever IMO.

I meant the kind of people indicated below.

I don't know about the otherside being more vociferous, I just think that they are blatantly wrong this year and are teetering on the verge of foolishness. To deny that there is problems with the transfer market is foolish, as I say I'm playing non league (for the 1st time in my FM life) so that I avoid it for now. Whilst I'm not happy that I can't have my Spurs save properly atm, I am enjoying the non leagues so this bug has opened my eyes to something else. Which is why I say its not broken, buggy, but not broken.

However, sadly for every eloquent post or thread there is an idiot complaining that injuries are bugged or that their team only shoot from 30 yards, these posts help no one, because there is so much ignorance in them.

I meant the kind of people indicated below.

I don't know about the otherside being more vociferous, I just think that they are blatantly wrong this year and are teetering on the verge of foolishness. To deny that there is problems with the transfer market is foolish, as I say I'm playing non league (for the 1st time in my FM life) so that I avoid it for now. Whilst I'm not happy that I can't have my Spurs save properly atm, I am enjoying the non leagues so this bug has opened my eyes to something else. Which is why I say its not broken, buggy, but not broken.

Its just semantics then isn't it really?

If I couldn't do anything with it, I'd call it broken. The fact I've gone down the leagues and found some new previously undiscovered joy means that I couldn't possibly call it broken. And the beauty of it is, having bought many games over the years (admittedly on console much more than PC) and being thoroughly disappointed with it, due to bugs or just being awful, I know that unlike the majority of those games that at some point they will fix this.

Is it right that we've paid money and don't have the full monty yet? No, but as I say, at some point we will (or hell will break loose) get our moneys worth (40 odd hours on Steam stats prove that for me already tbh, less than a pound an hour).

And you should try lower league, its a real challenge.

I would suggest SI need to look at a new pricing model.

Release a game update every 3 months or so with a new feature, some revisions, and a data update.

Charge maybe, %35 of what they would charge for a new release of a new version of the game.

Every year or so, offer a 'roll up' package of updates and changes at a discounted rate (maybe at %80 of what they charge for a full new version).

Basically, its sort of a subscription model, but rather than paying a monthly fee (which doesn't make sense in a single player game), you are paying for updates.

Basically, you'd be constantly updating the game rather that releasing whole new versions.

This would make it easier for them to tweak and improve parts of the game as they go along, without worrying about losing revenue because of skipping releases.

I would suggest SI need to look at a new pricing model.

Release a game update every 3 months or so with a new feature, some revisions, and a data update.

Charge maybe, %35 of what they would charge for a new release of a new version of the game.

Every year or so, offer a 'roll up' package of updates and changes at a discounted rate (maybe at %80 of what they charge for a full new version).

Basically, its sort of a subscription model, but rather than paying a monthly fee (which doesn't make sense in a single player game), you are paying for updates.

Basically, you'd be constantly updating the game rather that releasing whole new versions.

This would make it easier for them to tweak and improve parts of the game as they go along, without worrying about losing revenue because of skipping releases.

compare how many game hours you get out of FM each year and compare that with any other game and i'd argue that 9 out of 10 people here dont come close to matching their FM game time. i posted in an old thread that i played nearly 800 hours of FM10 and i was unable to play for around 3 months. rounded up that was 4p an hour - amazing value for money

Most of it is change for the sake of change, isn't it? Take the 'set up new game' screen for example. That was perfectly fine how it was, yet SI changed it for FM11 to something that's worse than it was.

Any product that can't be used for the purpose it was designed is broken, you prove that by having to drop down the leagues to be able to play properly. Having said that I've been thinking of managing Accy Stanley, might give it a bash.

It can be used for its purpose, its a game, it plays on the hardware it is designed for, therefore it is not broken.

I wouldn't say it was perfectly fine. Maybe for people who had used the game for years but certainly not for new users who were often quite confused by what they were meant to be doing there.

Around what percentage of total sales do you reckon are by 'new' customers every year? By new I mean ones who haven't played a version of the game before.

Around what percentage of total sales do you reckon are by 'new' customers every year? By new I mean ones who haven't played a version of the game before.

how could you possible work that out?

how could you possible work that out?

Thats why I asked the guy from SI, maybe they have some means of getting an approximate figure

Thats why I asked the guy from SI, maybe they have some means of getting an approximate figure

think about it for a minute, does the game in anyway ask if you have bought a previous version?

There is no way at all of determining how many "new" fm players there are each year, they can only go by sales, if the sales are up chances are there are more new people buying the game.

What i would imagine he would be getting at would be new users signing up for the forums and complaining they are struggling to set up a new game, hence why they made the change.

Most of it is change for the sake of change, isn't it? Take the 'set up new game' screen for example. That was perfectly fine how it was, yet SI changed it for FM11 to something that's worse than it was.

Actually, as a 10-ish year player, I think the new set up screen is much better this year

But then, everyone's opinion will be different

I cant sell any players. Trying to shift Robbie Keane and Peter Crouch and even on a £0 it still come's back saying doing fell it represents value or something like that. Also what is it with the players being so sensitive? Tom Huddleston wont speak to me after saying I am too harsh for selecting the angry post match team talk tab, after being beaten 4-0 at home against bottom place Cardiff. Now Mordic wont agree to a new contract unless I give him a minimum release clause of £4.5m. How is that worth it he was signed for £18.5m?