I'm so sure this game "cheats"

I've replayed a game several times just to see if I'm right in thinking this.

Attack after attack, shot after shot their goalkeeper saves with apparent ease they basically have no attack what so ever then 5 mins before full time my left wing passes perfectly to their striker who only has my keeper to beat and slots it past.

That is the most recent of 4 very similar reloads.

Anyone have anything similar?

It's your tactics.

On a serious note, I can't really tell, I don't dwell on stuff like that. Football is football. The team with the most goals at full time wins, end of story.

The game doesnt cheat

What it does is to calculate an outcome based on the parameters available and if you replay the game without changing anything, you stand a good chance og getting the same outcome

I saw the most blatant game cheating yesterday actually...

Valetta in the qualifying rounds (I was managing Malta) had these results against Dinamo Tblisi...

Dinamo 2 - 1 Valetta

Valetta 1 - 0 Dinamo

Now, the game put the AWAY GOALS sign next to Dinamo to qualify for the next round... Which is generally impossible considering they scored nothing away... I can't show pics since my game later decided to crash since I was winning against Georgia in the first friendly... But still... That was very, very bad...

I've replayed a game several times just to see if I'm right in thinking this.

Attack after attack, shot after shot their goalkeeper saves with apparent ease they basically have no attack what so ever then 5 mins before full time my left wing passes perfectly to their striker who only has my keeper to beat and slots it past.

That is the most recent of 4 very similar reloads.

Anyone have anything similar?

I once played West Ham v Everton over 200 times.

After loading, reloading and playing game after game, I came to the following conclusion.

The game has a huge element of randomness that has nothing to do with tactics. (Tactics do matter but every game, even if you make no tactical change whatsoever, has an element of randomness like a player injury, bad game etc).

Secondly, a lot of things that do count, come down to player motivation with the use of team talks or what was said in prior days leading up to the match.

Tactics also are a big factor, but not as big as people suggest. I downloaded some superb tactics which were even the same formation as mine and they struggled. I then would make a random strange formation with random "eye shut" slider selections and that would put 5 goals past Everton.

At the end of the day, I learnt that there is a fine balance between closing down/defensive line - this is the only thing that causes tactics to go wrong. Playing a fast paced game creates more chances, but has a less conversion rate, while slow paced football creates clearer chances. Also playing with more strikers in the box is far more successful than playing with a sole striker.

I have played over 200 games on 10.3.0 but also 300+ on previous versions.

FM is best played by never reloading and just playing an open attacking game. Take risks with tactics and if you are winning, never change it.

The game doesnt cheat

What it does is to calculate an outcome based on the parameters available and if you replay the game without changing anything, you stand a good chance og getting the same outcome

Please see above, totally not the case.

I once played West Ham v Everton over 200 times.

After loading, reloading and playing game after game, I came to the following conclusion.

The game has a huge element of randomness that has nothing to do with tactics. (Tactics do matter but every game, even if you make no tactical change whatsoever, has an element of randomness like a player injury, bad game etc).

Secondly, a lot of things that do count, come down to player motivation with the use of team talks or what was said in prior days leading up to the match.

Tactics also are a big factor, but not as big as people suggest. I downloaded some superb tactics which were even the same formation as mine and they struggled. I then would make a random strange formation with random "eye shut" slider selections and that would put 5 goals past Everton.

At the end of the day, I learnt that there is a fine balance between closing down/defensive line - this is the only thing that causes tactics to go wrong. Playing a fast paced game creates more chances, but has a less conversion rate, while slow paced football creates clearer chances. Also playing with more strikers in the box is far more successful than playing with a sole striker.

I have played over 200 games on 10.3.0 but also 300+ on previous versions.

FM is best played by never reloading and just playing an open attacking game. Take risks with tactics and if you are winning, never change it.

Wow, i have to admire your commitment, but it just seems so wrong that a lone striker can't work as well as having multiple strikers. A lot of top teams today use only one striker but have plenty of support from wingers or attacking midfielders. That's something that needs to be addressed imo.

Wow, i have to admire your commitment, but it just seems so wrong that a lone striker can't work as well as having multiple strikers. A lot of top teams today use only one striker but have plenty of support from wingers or attacking midfielders. That's something that needs to be addressed imo.

Most of the top teams with a 'lone' striker essentially play with three strikers with two that drop deep - i don't think that playing AML, AMR and forward replicates it properly.

Inter don't play Milito, but play Milito, Eto'o and Pandev.

Barca don't play Ibrahimovic (well, Villa now) but Ibra, Messi and Pedro.

I find that playing a centre forward with two players up front on the left and right works much better at this.

I think randomness is a very big factor in deciding results.

I also think FM has a snapshot of yoru team and pidgeon holes it into a 'probably league' finish. IE. I have a team thats Euro qual qualtity in Spain max. I am playing really well, coming 3rd and UCL potential. Nothing really changes, no injuries no change in personnell, no poor morale but it all hits the skids and a few losses later I'm in 7th at seasons end.

Or that's just because your team actually is only Euro quality.

I don't believe the game cheats, certainly not in the ways described here. For every instance where someone says that they replayed a match only to have the same outcome, I've replayed matches (yes, I'll admit I've done it before) and had totally different outcomes. Of course, any good manager looks at went wrong the first time and does not do it again, especially if you're rewriting your FM history...

As far as playing West Ham vs. Everton over 200 times...well, congrats?

what i never understand when people say the game cheats is why they think SI would bother to program it to do so. It would take time and man hours and its not like they would shift more units next year by annoying their customers.

A computer cant cheat, cheating is a human concept to gain an unfair advantage, a computer can only do what its told to, so as part of the game I think alot of random outcomes and percentage decisions mean sometimes you get things that seem unfair, but a computer cannot cheat its not possible

It's not cheating. It's such an immature accusation to make. I've never had a problem with ME that couldn't be rectified by thinking about football simply. Also, the best bit of advice I was given for FM was: you can't win every game!

The game doesnt cheat

What it does is to calculate an outcome based on the parameters available and if you replay the game without changing anything, you stand a good chance og getting the same outcome

In my experience only yesterday, played a friendly with Inter Milan (I was Liverpool), drew 2-2. Next match, the game locked up and the "Continue" button wouldn't work, so I had to quit the game from the Task Manager. Reloaded the save and had to play through the Inter match again, which was a shame because I was happy with the result. Didn't change a thing because I wanted to at least draw with them again, in all fairness. Lost 5-0.

It's the same in every other situation when I've had to replay a match (I don't reload to cheat, I'm sure everyone's been in my position at one time or another, crashes, freezes, power cuts etc.). I've never come up with the same result after reloading the save, even after trying out of curiosity to reload multiple times to try and get the same previous result.

Which also serves as a warning to people who want to cheat by reloading - it's a waste of time.

Most of the top teams with a 'lone' striker essentially play with three strikers with two that drop deep - i don't think that playing AML, AMR and forward replicates it properly.

Inter don't play Milito, but play Milito, Eto'o and Pandev.

Barca don't play Ibrahimovic (well, Villa now) but Ibra, Messi and Pedro.

I find that playing a centre forward with two players up front on the left and right works much better at this.

But messi and Pedro aren't represented as strikers in the game. So if FM researchers identify them more as wingers then as strikers then surely formations using one striker and two wingers should work more effectively than it does, provided its set up properly.

Having said that, i've recently started a new save using the samw formation as Barca do as its interpreted by the game and it seems more effective to play my wingers as inside forwards so maybe the problem was the way i was setting up my formation rather than the ME.

If you are replaying the game over and over then YOU are cheating.

I've not even read the thread, but if anyone seriously thinks its in SI's interests to make a game that cheats the user then you need your head read. Its just not the case. It may not be the politically correct thing to say but 'its your tactics'.

Now if you want advice on how to sort this then post in the T&T forum or even ask in GD, people will be willing to help on top of all the advice that is already floating around but lets not be silly and suggest you're being cheated by the AI.

I think the important thing to remember is that we try to make a game we want to play ourselves, so it would be daft if we biased the game against the human manager.

As for replaying matches with same tactics and getting different results, that is just down to small changes having big concequences. Take the England v Mexico game for example. If all variables were identical, but Green had played only slightly worse or Mexico had been only slightly more clinical in their finishing, the match could have taken a completely different path leading to a very different result, even with the same starting tactics and lineups.

However if one team is much better than the other, or one has a flawed tactic for a particular match, then replaying the match should see roughly the same sort of result. Although once again, small incidents in the game can have big knock-on effects for the rest of the match, just like real life.

i think sometimes people think the game cheats (it doesnt) as we tend to remember the frustrating mistakes our own team makes rather than the ones made by the opposition.

Case in point a few days ago one of my players played a short backpass which was intercepted and put in and my first thought was "why is it only my team that does stuff like this?" Since then ive watched for more passback mistakes that have led to goals and in another season and a half the opposition has made 3 similar mistakes, my team hasnt done it since.

The worst thing about thinking the game cheats is you are never going to improve at it. If every time you dominate a game and dont score you are thinking "the game is cheating me" rather than "what could i have done differently?" then yes it is going to happen over and over again.

But messi and Pedro aren't represented as strikers in the game. So if FM researchers identify them more as wingers then as strikers then surely formations using one striker and two wingers should work more effectively than it does, provided its set up properly.

Maybe we need new positions in that case don't you think? I mean, to say that Gerrard and Messi (both AM RLC I believe?) are similar players is stupid. Maybe we need WG (Winger) or IF (Inside Forward)?

Wow, i have to admire your commitment, but it just seems so wrong that a lone striker can't work as well as having multiple strikers. A lot of top teams today use only one striker but have plenty of support from wingers or attacking midfielders. That's something that needs to be addressed imo.

In FM08 there was no problem with a lone striker. Played a 6-3-1 as I was playing a stronger team once, the 1 striker scored 6 goals. In that one game.

I saw the most blatant game cheating yesterday actually...

Valetta in the qualifying rounds (I was managing Malta) had these results against Dinamo Tblisi...

Dinamo 2 - 1 Valetta

Valetta 1 - 0 Dinamo

Now, the game put the AWAY GOALS sign next to Dinamo to qualify for the next round... Which is generally impossible considering they scored nothing away... I can't show pics since my game later decided to crash since I was winning against Georgia in the first friendly... But still... That was very, very bad...

Bit of a shame you've no longer got that game, I'm sure the SI testers would have been interested in having a look at it.

Maybe the game only cheats if you use FMRTE.

In my experience only yesterday, played a friendly with Inter Milan (I was Liverpool), drew 2-2. Next match, the game locked up and the "Continue" button wouldn't work, so I had to quit the game from the Task Manager. Reloaded the save and had to play through the Inter match again, which was a shame because I was happy with the result. Didn't change a thing because I wanted to at least draw with them again, in all fairness. Lost 5-0.

It's the same in every other situation when I've had to replay a match (I don't reload to cheat, I'm sure everyone's been in my position at one time or another, crashes, freezes, power cuts etc.). I've never come up with the same result after reloading the save, even after trying out of curiosity to reload multiple times to try and get the same previous result.

Which also serves as a warning to people who want to cheat by reloading - it's a waste of time.

This has also happened to me once or twice in my latest save with Newcastle.. crash occurred, was busy reloading to try and gain an equal result I had achieved prior to the crash.. which happened to coincide with the FA Cup Quarter Final draw - I drew Everton away four or five times in a row. With 'x' number of possible outcomes available, it is very very unlikely that they were all randomly generated draws..

I think that game holds a measure of randomness just like real life. Im sure that if a game was replayed multiple times in real life, the results would vary.

This has also happened to me once or twice in my latest save with Newcastle.. crash occurred, was busy reloading to try and gain an equal result I had achieved prior to the crash.. which happened to coincide with the FA Cup Quarter Final draw - I drew Everton away four or five times in a row. With 'x' number of possible outcomes available, it is very very unlikely that they were all randomly generated draws..

Well the draw is made on the date of the last game played in the previous round (excepting replays), so unless you're reloading back to then you'll get the same opponents.

I saw the most blatant game cheating yesterday actually...

Valetta in the qualifying rounds (I was managing Malta) had these results against Dinamo Tblisi...

Dinamo 2 - 1 Valetta

Valetta 1 - 0 Dinamo

Now, the game put the AWAY GOALS sign next to Dinamo to qualify for the next round... Which is generally impossible considering they scored nothing away... I can't show pics since my game later decided to crash since I was winning against Georgia in the first friendly... But still... That was very, very bad...

Yes of course you did.

Funny how the people that post these things can never post screenies or anything like that due to this that or the other nonsense reason.

Yes of course you did.

Funny how the people that post these things can never post screenies or anything like that due to this that or the other nonsense reason.

Hey be nice......I'm sure he has the proof and is waiting for someone to ask nicely for it

Hey be nice......I'm sure he has the proof and is waiting for someone to ask nicely for it

And figures out photoshop in order to properly highlight it for us short-sighted folk

Damn this game to hell. How dare it cheat, even in my favor!

I'm Hearts btw.

Damn this game to hell. How dare it cheat, even in my favor!

I'm Hearts btw.

Used the exact same arguement this time last year, and my findings are best encapsulated by the following qoute (from Don McLean):

"They would not listen, they're not listening still.

Perhaps they never will..."

P.S. Good result, but I'm absolutely shocked that Berbatov scored

Leave berbatov alone!! *cries*

Leave berbatov alone!! *cries*

No! I won't! Because I'm a big meanie-weanie. Nyah, nyah, ne nyah nyah!

No! I won't! Because I'm a big meanie-weanie. Nyah, nyah, ne nyah nyah!

Enough of that. Big meani-weanie's are frowned upon by the SI community and Nyah, nyah, ne nyah nyah-ing is often considered an infraction worthy offence.

Consider yourself well and truly warned.

Enough of that. Big meani-weanie's are frowned upon by the SI community and Nyah, nyah, ne nyah nyah-ing is often considered an infraction worthy offence.

Consider yourself well and truly warned.

I'm sowwy. OK I think that's enough childish idiocy from me for one night I'll get back to seriously pointing out my objections to other people's ideas.

I have the feeling that the game "cheats" to increase the difficulty level. After 4 or 5 seasons, the top teams are not so strong anymore as the AI is not strong enough. But so often, you see one team overperforming and having strings of 15 consecutive games, so that you need 90 points or more to win the league.

I have also the feeling that I lose points because opposition players with poor shooting score 25 or 30 yarders against me, something that almost never happens in my favour (only good distance shooters are able to score long distance goals in my favour). Another thing is the "miracle keeper". I have good goalkeepers myself (Gordon and Hart) but I sometimes lose games because the opposition keeper makes the one wonder save after the other, that never happens in my favour.

I think that the "luck factor" is used against the human player to compensate for the mediocre ability of the AI managers.

I have the feeling that the game "cheats" to increase the difficulty level. After 4 or 5 seasons, the top teams are not so strong anymore as the AI is not strong enough. But so often, you see one team overperforming and having strings of 15 consecutive games, so that you need 90 points or more to win the league.

I have also the feeling that I lose points because opposition players with poor shooting score 25 or 30 yarders against me, something that almost never happens in my favour (only good distance shooters are able to score long distance goals in my favour). Another thing is the "miracle keeper". I have good goalkeepers myself (Gordon and Hart) but I sometimes lose games because the opposition keeper makes the one wonder save after the other, that never happens in my favour.

I think that the "luck factor" is used against the human player to compensate for the mediocre ability of the AI managers.

Utter nonsense!

You have a feeling? Sounds like those people on Deal or No Deal who "have a feeling" they have a blue box, but it turns out they have the £250,000.

I have the feeling that the game "cheats" to increase the difficulty level. After 4 or 5 seasons, the top teams are not so strong anymore as the AI is not strong enough. But so often, you see one team overperforming and having strings of 15 consecutive games, so that you need 90 points or more to win the league.

I have also the feeling that I lose points because opposition players with poor shooting score 25 or 30 yarders against me, something that almost never happens in my favour (only good distance shooters are able to score long distance goals in my favour). Another thing is the "miracle keeper". I have good goalkeepers myself (Gordon and Hart) but I sometimes lose games because the opposition keeper makes the one wonder save after the other, that never happens in my favour.

I think that the "luck factor" is used against the human player to compensate for the mediocre ability of the AI managers.

Comedy post of the year. Well done

Of course the AI "cheats", it has too in order to actually work, it's part of AI programming and practically every game is the same

After-all it's easier, quicker and cheaper to program an AI with certain advantages, than a true proper AI... also be glad since a true AI would lock-up most computers anyway

However, I highly doubt it actually cheat cheats in order to cause user frustration... that would be stupid lol

Sure, certain things happen way too often or not enough in player games... but that's a case of numbers needing to be adjusted to lower or increase the chance of it happening, not because a routine within the coding says - We feel the player HAS to loose this match... so it will happen in the most frustrating way possible

Of course, we moan when it happens against us, but when we do it, it's genius and we're gods... it's human nature to be biased

And before anyone jumps on me, yes, I'm a programmer [abet a web programmer, but it's based around C++], and yes, I'm quite familiar with AI logic as it tends to be an interest of mine

If you reload the game, then you are the one cheating

As mentioned many times before (both here and in the multitude of similar threads), the AI doesn't cheat. Seeing your side get shut out only to go down to a single goal from their one attack isn't as unbelievable as it sounds. Happens all the time in real life, and I actually just had it swing my way as well.

That being said, there certainly IS an element of randomness, but that is to be expected. Just because a striker has 20's for Finishing, Composure, Technique, Positioning and First Touch doesn't mean he WILL score from that drilled cross every single time. The attributes themselves are modifiers for probabilities, if you think about it, perhaps explained best by Consistency, which is said to be the number of times out of 25 (?) a player plays to his actual CA.

A lot more can be said, but I think this is just a dead argument, and purely anecdotal from a few people who can't see the errors that they are making themselves.

Comedy post of the year. Well done

And that without needing 2865 posts. Is life busy?

And that without needing 2865 posts. Is life busy?

Yes thanks, but never to busy to make light of a comedy post.

The game doesn't cheat.

It's a video game, so it 'obviously' needs some sort of advantage in order to compete with a human (I.E. A better goal scoring ratio). Are people thick or something? Oh and it's not really cheating. It's not actually cheating because it is the 'only' way to make the game a challenge

It's a video game, so it 'obviously' needs some sort of advantage in order to compete with a human (I.E. A better goal scoring ratio). Are people thick or something? Oh and it's not really cheating. It's not actually cheating because it is the 'only' way to make the game a challenge

......

I think that game holds a measure of randomness just like real life. Im sure that if a game was replayed multiple times in real life, the results would vary.

I stand by what I said. Football can be a very random game at times. So why shouldn't the game have a level of randomness to it?

Tell me why would the game need to cheat if you are managing Wigan and you are up against Barcelona at the Camp Nou?

......

I stand by what I said. Football can be a very random game at times. So why shouldn't the game have a level of randomness to it?

Tell me why would the game need to cheat if you are managing Wigan and you are up against Barcelona at the Camp Nou?

Fully agree with this! and im sure this is what the majority of forum users would also agree

All video games 'cheat' to make up for its inability to 'think' & flaws are place in there for you to 'exploit' & in this case done in such a way that you need to be knowledgeable, tactically good, to see and exploit those flaws in a 'probability' environment. In other words, it's not for the 'fun' type. This is for for the 'in-depth' tactical type

All video games 'cheat' to make up for its inability to 'think' & flaws are place in there for you to 'exploit' & in this case done in such a way that you need to be knowledgeable, tactically good, to see and exploit those flaws in a 'probability' environment. In other words, it's not for 'fun' type. It's for the 'in-depth' tactical type

And yet I win the premier league title before then end of February.

If this was the case, then everyone on the forum would use every cheat and exploit that has been found in the game. The reason that people shy away from them is because of the fact that the　AI cannot cope with them.　If the game was "compensating" by making us lose a game here and there....no one would be against the use of exploits.

I don't mean exploits to beat the ME, I mean the ability to spot things that others with a less 'tactical' brain wouldn't see etc. You often hear people on here telling you to analyze every single detail, to look at every stat etc in the game to help guarantee likelyhood of success instead of relyng on random runs. I.E. If you're good enough 'tactically' you can dictate your fate more