My guide to hoofball

[witticism]

49 minutes ago, Peljam said:

I'd be interested in seeing the Assist Assist stat (2nd assist in some sports?). I don't think FM records that. Maybe the key pass is the closest? I'm assuming a key pass is one that leads to a goal or chance.

I thought you could probably find this out manually, working backwards in the match reports and it turns out I was sort of right:

So if you go Analysis -> Players and first finds the goal, you then go look at for the key pass/chance created after that it gets messier because we need to use passes received but with a bit of work you can see where it came from and take an educated guess as to who laid that pass.

The above goal looked like this:

[Peljam]

Thanks! That's actually a really useful and quite clear example! I'm going to take a look at some of mine.

[Carninho]

I'm really keen to give this a go, and I think seeing this thread today has pushed me over the edge. 

I've just finished the 1st season in the Conf North (using a completely different playing style. I used Create a Team and replaced Altrincham with an Isle of Man team).

I have setup a new hoofball tactic ready to go based on all the suggestions here.

Problem is that I cant find a TM that will come to me, literally only a couple of regen kids that have next to no aggression and physical stats, or equally poor journeymen, which would be ok as a backup I guess, but I need that main TM . Has anyone played at this level and found the players they need? I'm also struggling to find and strong and aggressive players full stop with any usable technical stats.

I'll continue through the summer months to see if any more players show up after teams release them and put other up for loan. 

 

Second option is for me to start a new save. Last week while trudging through Wikipedia for lower league inspiration I came across Spanish Div 3 side CF Badalona and thought it would be a great team to turn 'bad/heel' against the big city rivals Barcelona playing 'the beautiful game'. I don't really want to mange in Spain right now, but the team name and this thread seem like too much of a sign to ignore.

 

Looking at the Ball Playing CBs you need to train them with PPM 'tries long range passes'. It works great for route one football, especially when the player doesn't have very good creative stats. Also don't overuse the PPM in the team, you should limit it to one or two players in my experience. 

 

[Peljam]

6 hours ago, Carninho said:

I'm really keen to give this a go, and I think seeing this thread today has pushed me over the edge. 

I've just finished the 1st season in the Conf North (using a completely different playing style. I used Create a Team and replaced Altrincham with an Isle of Man team).

I have setup a new hoofball tactic ready to go based on all the suggestions here.

Problem is that I cant find a TM that will come to me, literally only a couple of regen kids that have next to no aggression and physical stats, or equally poor journeymen, which would be ok as a backup I guess, but I need that main TM . Has anyone played at this level and found the players they need? I'm also struggling to find and strong and aggressive players full stop with any usable technical stats.

 

I managed Scarborough and Grantham, both newly promoted teams, and had a similar issue. A good all round TM is like golddust, at least until you've established the team. I had to get more one dimension TM's. Either relatively slow and immobile, but good in the air or fast and strong but a bit clueless.

From what I remember though the journeyman option worked out  a little bit better for me. Regen kids tended to be a little weak and lack the mental side of being a good TM. The slower journeymen were okay because everyone is a bit slow physically at that level so it was less of a negative.

I often scouted the non-league teams below the Conference North. They were often okay for the conference regional levels but were more likely to sign as they were non-league. I think the Dafuge's challenge thread in the forum has a list of all the teams in division below. You could maybe scout them?

Another alternative is to use the scout team to get a team report. I can't remember which youtuber it was from (Either GoldenFM or maybe FoxintheBox), but if you scout up to two divisions above you, using the team report function, you'll often be told about players that you could loan that don't normally appear in your player search. They were able to get a few players for conference sides that way.

 

Also the Badalona idea sounds awesome

Edited November 14, 2018 by Peljam

[Scoham]

6 hours ago, Carninho said:

I'm really keen to give this a go, and I think seeing this thread today has pushed me over the edge. 

I've just finished the 1st season in the Conf North (using a completely different playing style. I used Create a Team and replaced Altrincham with an Isle of Man team).

I have setup a new hoofball tactic ready to go based on all the suggestions here.

Problem is that I cant find a TM that will come to me, literally only a couple of regen kids that have next to no aggression and physical stats, or equally poor journeymen, which would be ok as a backup I guess, but I need that main TM . Has anyone played at this level and found the players they need? I'm also struggling to find and strong and aggressive players full stop with any usable technical stats.

I'll continue through the summer months to see if any more players show up after teams release them and put other up for loan. 

 

Second option is for me to start a new save. Last week while trudging through Wikipedia for lower league inspiration I came across Spanish Div 3 side CF Badalona and thought it would be a great team to turn 'bad/heel' against the big city rivals Barcelona playing 'the beautiful game'. I don't really want to mange in Spain right now, but the team name and this thread seem like too much of a sign to ignore.

 

Looking at the Ball Playing CBs you need to train them with PPM 'tries long range passes'. It works great for route one football, especially when the player doesn't have very good creative stats. Also don't overuse the PPM in the team, you should limit it to one or two players in my experience. 

 

Love the idea Badalona idea! I’ve played CM/FM since 00/01 and only ever gone from the bottom tier to the top in England (various clubs), Italy (with San Marino) and Scotland (Edinburgh City). From FM20 I want to try and have long term in other countries. Probably not playing hoofball again though, was more thinking of small clubs in capital or big cities, such as Badalona or Paris FC.

For a Madrid alternative there’s a club called Internacional Madrid who were recently promoted to the third tier. From what I remember their stadium has a capacity of only 300.

[Peljam]

Brief Update - I've spent 3 seasons at East Fife now, playing glorious Hoofball.

Season 1 - We finished 1st in L2.

Season 2- We finished 5th in L1. It was quite tight we were about two games either way from being embroiled in relegation or the promotion playoffs.

Season 3 - We finshed 1st in L1. Won it on the last day. Everything came together for the hoofball this season.

This season worked well because we:

1) Squeezed out extra goals from set pieces, throw ins and corners. Partly by having slightly better LB/RB's with long throw stats, and having a decent TM to play the ball too.

2) As mentioned above, we had a decent TM. In the previous season we put the best of a bad bunch in the TM role but this season our TM got 13 goals and 11 assists. The bulk of the assist coming from a header. The pressing forward bagged 31 in all competitions and 13 assists. Arguably the PF had a bigger impact but they relied a lot on the service and movement of the TM. I had the same PF the season before and they managed 20 goals because the TM then wasn't up to the job.

3) We had a backup plan for killing off games. If we needed to protect a lead then the FB/S became FB/D - still retaining the crossing instructions. If it was real back against the wall defending we needed then they became no-nonsense FB's, and I would often put on my backup wingers who were better at playing as defensive wingers (on support usually). That helped shut up shop without starving the strikers of opportunities.

 

I'm pretty happy with the set up. I'd be tempted to use BPD (as discussed earlier in the thread) if I get to a level where I can actually recruit some decent ones.

[witticism]

4 hours ago, Peljam said:

I'm pretty happy with the set up. I'd be tempted to use BPD (as discussed earlier in the thread) if I get to a level where I can actually recruit some decent ones.

Best of luck, for the life of me I still cannot find an LM or a natural LB. In the regen class from last seasonthis was the only serviceable one:

 

Minor Update:

Finished the first season in the top flight, mostly 442 Narrow Diamond after a 442/4132 start didnt really work, overachieved on the backs of two youth players that came of age and judicious free transfers in the summer.

Rosenborg won the title (to the surprise of no one) and I took the cup (to the surprise of everyone) defeating Lillestrom 2-0 in the Cup Final:

Key Passes, Chances,Offside, Goals, Shots Missed, Shots Saved and Overall position.

Going to be interesting if/when any European teams come for my players in the coming transfer windows.

 

Minor Tippeligaen complaint: The number of teams that use 433 Narrow or some 343 variant is noticeable, so I might need to device a plan to counter that.

[Carninho]

I tried this with my Isle of Man FC team (replaced Altrincham in Conf North). Start of the second season and after a dozen games its turning out to be a dud, each match being worse than the last. Pre-season went really well and even managed to very respectable loss of 1-4 to a full strength West Ham. Last seasons tactic performed much better, but it was centred around a star AM that I had on loan (when he didn't play we lost). 

 

My players just aren't up to it which is really frustrating as LLM is the bread and butter for long ball. I think its down to the players rather than the tactic though. I'm creating plenty of chances but the strikers cant put them away. I really struggled to find a TM, and none of the players can cross the ball. My TM is yet to score this season, the PF gets the majority of chances, bagging 3 in one game, but since has hit a dry patch, and hits the woodwork once a match! My BPD, who has 13 for passing, has a 45% completion ratio. It may have dropped lower at points, as I switched him to a No Nonsense CB to try and plug the leaky defence in a few games.

 

I'm going to boot up Badalona tonight and try it with them. I have a dream of beating Barcelona 1-0 in the Camp Nou. 

Annoyingly Ibiza in the same league have a great team for hoofball, they have a top class winger and Italian legend Marco Borriello, who at 36 is still the best TM you will see in the lower leagues. Their defence was shocking though from what I remember.

[witticism]

New season update:

I finally managed to sign an entire left side so we are back to a (somewhat unorthodox) 442:

Dividing my time between cautious/balanced as far as adjustments go and if I am feeling adventurous making the TM into an AF is something I've tried (in games I am already winning) as well.

I've kept the CD/BPD pairing but I have deliberately combined it with same-sided wingback who likes to get forward, a movement further aided by the IW's intention to cut inside. These two player-traits are the first be incorporated into the larger tactical approach.

Left side is comparatively less interesting with just a fullback and a natural winger.

The rest is my attempt at creating more space and vertical runs and available pass recipients, as well as trying to overcome a lack of off-the-ball movement once the ball got to the opposition's box, so this is my (first of many?) attempts at solving that.

It's the first time I attempt asymmetry to this degree but I am hopeful, highlights of the season so far are a 0-2 defeat away at Rosenborg and a 1-0 win away at Molde.

[SmileFaceGamer]

On 14/11/2018 at 11:16, Carninho said:

I'm really keen to give this a go, and I think seeing this thread today has pushed me over the edge. 

I've just finished the 1st season in the Conf North (using a completely different playing style. I used Create a Team and replaced Altrincham with an Isle of Man team).

I have setup a new hoofball tactic ready to go based on all the suggestions here.

Problem is that I cant find a TM that will come to me, literally only a couple of regen kids that have next to no aggression and physical stats, or equally poor journeymen, which would be ok as a backup I guess, but I need that main TM . Has anyone played at this level and found the players they need? I'm also struggling to find and strong and aggressive players full stop with any usable technical stats.

I'll continue through the summer months to see if any more players show up after teams release them and put other up for loan. 

 

Second option is for me to start a new save. Last week while trudging through Wikipedia for lower league inspiration I came across Spanish Div 3 side CF Badalona and thought it would be a great team to turn 'bad/heel' against the big city rivals Barcelona playing 'the beautiful game'. I don't really want to mange in Spain right now, but the team name and this thread seem like too much of a sign to ignore.

 

Looking at the Ball Playing CBs you need to train them with PPM 'tries long range passes'. It works great for route one football, especially when the player doesn't have very good creative stats. Also don't overuse the PPM in the team, you should limit it to one or two players in my experience. 

 

For that Target Man, look for Tom Denton. I’m having a lot of success with him in a 424 as the TM-S due to him being 6ft7. Physicality is massive at this level, so he’d be a gem if Chesterfield don’t renew his contract (3.5* VNR Level)

[TheMadMonk]

6 hours ago, SmileFaceGamer said:

For that Target Man, look for Tom Denton. I’m having a lot of success with him in a 424 as the TM-S due to him being 6ft7. Physicality is massive at this level, so he’d be a gem if Chesterfield don’t renew his contract (3.5* VNR Level)

While your farming 'talent' from Chesterfield then you could do a lot worse than make an offer for Sam Muggleton - Throw Ins = 19.

I've set throw in instructions up using him and Tom Denton and they have provided source for 3 goals in the first 5 games - in reality he can throw it a lot further than he does in the game but they are more effective in FM than in real life.

[Carninho]

Chesterfield are walking the league in my save. I do have a decent long thrower (Dan Jones LB), but he is taking an age to learn the 'long bullet'.

I'll post my tactic this evening as its taken a while to perfect. I started with @Peljam's on page 2 and went from there. Its taken half the season to find a consistent fit for my squad.

I went with a Create a Club using Barrow in the end as I wanted to try again with Isle of Man idea. The 'star player' is a TM Jacob Blyth, who starts the game injured for months. I brought in Michael Rankine to cover till he was fit. I couldn't get a tune out of either, but at least Rankine scores the odd goal. Blyth still hasn't scored, but he does play a great support role to the strike partner (Corie Andrews he too was injured for the first few months of the season). 

[Carninho]

The last 5 games are when I left this alone so the player stats below reflect the performance. 

I haven't had much luck from set pieces. 

star player is Aaron Davis on the right, but at least the TM Blyth is now getting some good knock downs for Andrews to score from

Edited November 20, 2018 by Carninho
update

[Peljam]

On 17/11/2018 at 06:20, witticism said:

New season update:

I finally managed to sign an entire left side so we are back to a (somewhat unorthodox) 442:

Dividing my time between cautious/balanced as far as adjustments go and if I am feeling adventurous making the TM into an AF is something I've tried (in games I am already winning) as well.

I've kept the CD/BPD pairing but I have deliberately combined it with same-sided wingback who likes to get forward, a movement further aided by the IW's intention to cut inside. These two player-traits are the first be incorporated into the larger tactical approach.

Left side is comparatively less interesting with just a fullback and a natural winger.

The rest is my attempt at creating more space and vertical runs and available pass recipients, as well as trying to overcome a lack of off-the-ball movement once the ball got to the opposition's box, so this is my (first of many?) attempts at solving that.

It's the first time I attempt asymmetry to this degree but I am hopeful, highlights of the season so far are a 0-2 defeat away at Rosenborg and a 1-0 win away at Molde.

Looks good. How is the TMs and SSa pairing working? I can see that being really good if the TM is up to it. Does the shadow striker stay close enough to receive the ball from the TM?

4 hours ago, Carninho said:

The last 5 games are when I left this alone so the player stats below reflect the performance. 

I haven't had much luck from set pieces. 

star player is Aaron Davis on the right, but at least the TM Blyth is now getting some good knock downs for Andrews to score from

Hows the AP doing? Is that John Rooney? Their stats look decent. Does the AP get forward a lot? And do you get more short balls because of their positioning?

I've tried the DLP in a very similar formation to yours. Mainly because I'm at a better team than East Fife now. I'm at St. Johnstone and have Regan Booty. I gave him a few games as DLP and he acted a lot like a quarter back, sat a bit deep, sprayed the ball around. I imagine the AP is doing something similar except the passes to the strikers are just shorter?

[witticism]

5 hours ago, Peljam said:

Looks good. How is the TMs and SSa pairing working?

It looked promising, but unsteady:

Injury to the AMC in the 0-0 Draw to Sarpsborg and subsequent poor form  prompted a return to the standard TM/Poacher pair and a good run of form basically made it hard to revisit the  asymmetric version:

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by witticism
pics

[fikintiki1]

guys how do you rate hoofball for a team just promoted to the epl ? its good or bad idea for epl level ?

[Carninho]

On ‎21‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 00:56, Peljam said:

Hows the AP doing? Is that John Rooney? Their stats look decent. Does the AP get forward a lot? And do you get more short balls because of their positioning?

I've tried the DLP in a very similar formation to yours. Mainly because I'm at a better team than East Fife now. I'm at St. Johnstone and have Regan Booty. I gave him a few games as DLP and he acted a lot like a quarter back, sat a bit deep, sprayed the ball around. I imagine the AP is doing something similar except the passes to the strikers are just shorter?

The AP doesn't effect the long balls he's just set that way to be higher up the pitch and play around the TM. The 2 central midfielders don't really contribute much to the build up play, and the AP chips in with goals. The RM/winger is still the key position.

I wanted to have the back 4 stay as a solid line at all times as even just with one FB going forward I was very venerable to quick balls back over the top. even with 2 defensive minded/positioned CM's I was leaking far too many goals. Now having a defensive back 4 & and a BWM, I could release the other CM to get forward, I picked the AF role as it matched Rooney's preference, and it worked well. Its like when Wimbledon used Oyvind Leonahardsen or Bolton with Okocha or Djorkaeff. I guess a straight attacking CM would be OK, but I just didn't have a natural one in the squad.

I did have a huge schoolboy error, as I setup my throw-in routines but forgot to set the actual thrower to 'long throw'! I've spent half the season not utilising my biggest weapon 

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, fikintiki1 said:

guys how do you rate hoofball for a team just promoted to the epl ? its good or bad idea for epl level ?

If you have a physical, aggressive and hard-working squad with a strong aerial "monster" in attack, I don't see why it wouldn't work 

[Peljam]

4 hours ago, fikintiki1 said:

guys how do you rate hoofball for a team just promoted to the epl ? its good or bad idea for epl level ?

In theory it should work. It's like @Experienced Defender says, if you have the players for it then it could be successful. After all the EPL has had long ball teams before, and has had them do quite well (punching above their weight at least).

I've not tried it in the EPL but I am in the SPL at the moment. I've managed to beat teams in the 'big 4' or steal points from them. I'm in 2029 and the last 5 titles have been shared between Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, with Hibs hovering around there.

 

It's not quite the same as the EPL but its a similar issue. Teams that are strong in possession will be harder to turn over, it's the nature of hoofball. It's something Graham Taylor found when his Watford side played in Europe. Hoofball is about percentages often and you'll give the ball away. If the other team are good in possession you won't see if back often enough to do much with it, and unless you are very strong in defense and clinical up front you'll get punished more often than not. I've found it similar in my game. I could play much more expressive, attacking, Watford/Crazy gang hoofball when I was in lower or weaker leagues. Now I'm in a stronger league I play a lot more defensive Pulis-esque hoofball - keeping the FB's back, sometimes having DC's rather than natural FB's if they are big and strong enough, heavy emphasis on set peices, more structured/rigid, even more time wasting and use of defensive wingers if a game needs shutting down.

 

EDIT: Should also add I think recruitment is key. If you're newly promoted you can't afford players that are generalists, or that are multi-functional. IMO it's much better to have a good Targetman for example, that can't do anything else than to have a ST who is okay in a couple of roles. It's almost moneyball like - players who are generally underated but very good at a very specific task that will get you points. Very few of my players are flexible all rounders.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Peljam

[Peljam]

On 21/11/2018 at 06:36, witticism said:

It looked promising, but unsteady:

Injury to the AMC in the 0-0 Draw to Sarpsborg and subsequent poor form  prompted a return to the standard TM/Poacher pair and a good run of form basically made it hard to revisit the  asymmetric version:

 

That is quite a change! Are you tempted to go back to the asymmetric if you could improve the players? It looked like it could do the job. And it sounded like a pairing that would work.

2 hours ago, Carninho said:

The AP doesn't effect the long balls he's just set that way to be higher up the pitch and play around the TM. The 2 central midfielders don't really contribute much to the build up play, and the AP chips in with goals. The RM/winger is still the key position.

I wanted to have the back 4 stay as a solid line at all times as even just with one FB going forward I was very venerable to quick balls back over the top. even with 2 defensive minded/positioned CM's I was leaking far too many goals. Now having a defensive back 4 & and a BWM, I could release the other CM to get forward, I picked the AF role as it matched Rooney's preference, and it worked well. Its like when Wimbledon used Oyvind Leonahardsen or Bolton with Okocha or Djorkaeff. I guess a straight attacking CM would be OK, but I just didn't have a natural one in the squad.

I did have a huge schoolboy error, as I setup my throw-in routines but forgot to set the actual thrower to 'long throw'! I've spent half the season not utilising my biggest weapon 

I had the same issues with my FB's against better teams. I now set them up more defensively against big teams or teams that play on the wings and have two strikers (one striker is less of an issue).

I'm desperate to find an Okocha. I want at least one player so good he gets named twice. My team is getting increasingly dour and functional (which I actually really love) so a least one attacking, more flair based, outlet would be good.

I've had a similar issue with routines. My save is still from the beta so I don't know if it's just related to that. But if I load a tactic/philosophy the routines don't load with it. And when I load the routines in the set peice menu the delivery defaults to mixed everytime.

[Carninho]

Ideal XI would be the Arsenal back four Dixon/Adams/Keown/Winterburn. Vinnie Jones as the ball winner. One winger with great crossing and set piece delivery say Glynn Hodges as the poor mans Beckham. Other winger is full of flair and pace Darren Eadie/Tony Daley. A big strong CM with a great engine who can get forward and score Robbie Earle/Gus Poyet. Then Niall Quinn and Kevin Phillips up front

 

[fikintiki1]

2 saat önce, Experienced Defender said:

If you have a physical, aggressive and hard-working squad with a strong aerial "monster" in attack, I don't see why it wouldn't work 

 

2 saat önce, Peljam said:

In theory it should work. It's like @Experienced Defender says, if you have the players for it then it could be successful. After all the EPL has had long ball teams before, and has had them do quite well (punching above their weight at least).

I've not tried it in the EPL but I am in the SPL at the moment. I've managed to beat teams in the 'big 4' or steal points from them. I'm in 2029 and the last 5 titles have been shared between Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, with Hibs hovering around there.

 

It's not quite the same as the EPL but its a similar issue. Teams that are strong in possession will be harder to turn over, it's the nature of hoofball. It's something Graham Taylor found when his Watford side played in Europe. Hoofball is about percentages often and you'll give the ball away. If the other team are good in possession you won't see if back often enough to do much with it, and unless you are very strong in defense and clinical up front you'll get punished more often than not. I've found it similar in my game. I could play much more expressive, attacking, Watford/Crazy gang hoofball when I was in lower or weaker leagues. Now I'm in a stronger league I play a lot more defensive Pulis-esque hoofball - keeping the FB's back, sometimes having DC's rather than natural FB's if they are big and strong enough, heavy emphasis on set peices, more structured/rigid, even more time wasting and use of defensive wingers if a game needs shutting down.

 

EDIT: Should also add I think recruitment is key. If you're newly promoted you can't afford players that are generalists, or that are multi-functional. IMO it's much better to have a good Targetman for example, that can't do anything else than to have a ST who is okay in a couple of roles. It's almost moneyball like - players who are generally underated but very good at a very specific task that will get you points. Very few of my players are flexible all rounders.

what about a 532 ? Can you comment on tactic/roles please ? Btw i got 2 in-row promotion with common tactics like 442 and 4231, now trying to make something different to enjoy this game much.

I still have 25m and keep scouting some specialits. Got 2 throwers already and now trying to get another TM and MC with high freekick. Found so many good TM but all didnt get WP so ..

 

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by fikintiki1
images

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, fikintiki1 said:

what about a 532 ? Can you comment on tactic/roles please ?

532 is a suitable formation for hoofball, although yours is 5122 (which also can work btw).

On roles and duties in your system... well, I would personally put the RWB on defend duty to cover for the attacking CM on his side. The strikers' would keep their roles and duties, but swap sides (TMs on the right and AF on the left), so that better balance is achieved.

As for the rest of your settings... in possession everything looks okay IMO, perhaps only tempo could be changed to normal. In transtion - very well  And finally out of possession - I would suggest a lower LOE and more urgent pressing but not tight marking (you could optionally consider "Get Stuck In" in certain situatons, but be cautious when employing it).

Mentality-wise, balanced is usually a good starting point, but of course you can always get a bit more cautious based on what you see going on on the pitch.

[witticism]

1 hour ago, Peljam said:

That is quite a change! Are you tempted to go back to the asymmetric if you could improve the players? It looked like it could do the job. And it sounded like a pairing that would work.

Forget improving players, Europe just came in and took the spine.  CB, MC & AMC. I think I'll revisit the idea after a rebuild.

[fikintiki1]

Damn .. clinical stiker is so important in this tactic. My AF missed that big chance 1v1 and Salah win the game alone with a banana shot from 30m ..

 

[improvox]

I finally got round to starting a save using a hoofball tactic. BSC Glasgow in the Lowland League. Slow start but am getting there with it. 

I will post up the tactic later today with results etc. The difficulty I have is analysing what's going on so may need to ask for a bit of help with that! 

[improvox]

Evening all,

So here is my tactic, very much based on what I have read on here so will be very similar to what some of you use or have used.  I started off with a Poacher alongside the TM and i really couldn't get it to work, hence our very slow start in the league, I changed to an AF and also went from a Cautious mentality to Balances and have had much more success, although our form is dipping again currently.  We are sitting in 5th currently and are only expected to get top half so thats fine, the recent dip in form has meant that promotion is out of the question now, so i am starting to think about building towards next season.

As mentioned this morning I am not great at analyzing stats in FM and dont even know how to use some of the analysis tools in the game, so any help would be appreciated, for starters I have attached the Goal Assists analysis which shows that we are getting most of them through crosses, and looking at my player stats its from my RW who has 11 assists (no other player has over 3!)

 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by improvox

[Carninho]

After replacing Barrow for my own create a club I have just finished my 2nd season.

I managed to finish top of the National League at the end of season 2. I was in the play off spots all year but only went top with a few games to go. What switched things for me was playing the CM as an advanced playmaker. He plays lots of long balls through the middle of the pitch in his own half for my pacey AF to run onto. If I had a better quality AF I would have wrapped up the league much earlier, but he's inconsistent and finish stats aren't great.

[Experienced Defender]

On 05/12/2018 at 21:30, improvox said:

I'll just tell you briefly what tweaks I would make to your tactic in an attempt to make it a bit closer to the "hoofball". 

In possession - normal tempo instead of higher (pass into space is also not necessary IMO, although it may remain). The rest is good 

In transition - would remove the "distribute quickly" (leave it on default instead)

Out of possession - standard (instead of higher) LOE and would add Get Stuck In, but would remove Tight Marking. The rest is okay.

When it comes to roles and duties, I would change the TM's duty to support when playing with the Balanced mentality, while might consider him remaining on attack when using a lower (cautious) mentality. So here is how my setup would look:

TMs/a     AFa

 

IWa    CMd     BtBM      Ws

 

FBs    NCBd    NCBd    WBd

GK/SKd

Keeping it tight at the back and simple in attack is the essence of hoofball 

[Peljam]

Hows everyone doing with their glorious hoofball since the latest update?

I have to admit because of work I've only played the one game. And I've started a new save to get the most out of the update. Got a creditable 2-2 draw with one goal being pure hoofball and the second being a scramble after a cross from the wing/deep (so sort of semi-hoof?).

[Carninho]

10 hours ago, Peljam said:

Hows everyone doing with their glorious hoofball since the latest update?

I have to admit because of work I've only played the one game. And I've started a new save to get the most out of the update. Got a creditable 2-2 draw with one goal being pure hoofball and the second being a scramble after a cross from the wing/deep (so sort of semi-hoof?).

I had a huge downturn in results. I was at the tail end of the season in L2 and pushing for automatic promotion, then things went very pear shaped. Losing out in the playoffs and a very poor start to the following season. I made one change to my formation and everything is looking lovely again. Instead of my flat 442 below I pushed the M/R to a AM/R. I didn't think anything of it till I saw this and it does tally up with last update. Or maybe I'm just making one huge assumption.

[Peljam]

Glad to hear that it just took a tweak to the tactics @Carninho I'm hoping I don't need to do too much to mine as well. I'm going to start with the defensive version of mine and then work up to the 'ideal' version

[mylescattle]

Evening all. Having been a long time reader of this wonderful thread on Hoofball, I’ve decided to finally contribute and share the tactics I’ve been using in my Graham Taylor career update. https://community.sigames.com/topic/459956-the-graham-taylor-career-journey/

 

The formation I’ve used the most in the save is a 5-3-2 line up. I had used a 4-2-2-2 formation in my first 4 matches of the save, but then I switched to a 5-3-2, when I realised I had better wing-backs than wingers. I might try and revert back to the 4-2-2-2, when I’ve gotten the suitable players in to play that system.

 

As you can see from the Roles and duties, I play with a Sweeper Keeper on support duty. I play with a high defensive line, and a high line of engagement, which means it’s useful to have a keeper that’s prepared to come off his line. Another aspect you’ll notice is the wing-backs, I’ve the left on attack duty, while the opposite side is on defend duty to give a bit of balance.

Onto Team Instructions, In Possession: Direct Passing, Pass Into Space, Early Crosses, Float Crosses, there’s no surprises there. The next two are Run At Defence and Shoot on Sight, Run At Defence is included because I want the team to play with width, harping back to Taylor’s Watford Team and John Barnes. Shoot on Sight is also included, uncomplicated football is what I desire.

Set Pieces is obvious, Be More Disciplined is a must. Taylor liked his teams to play in a very disciplined manner. Focus the play down both flanks, with an overlap on the left for the attacking wing-back, and an underlap on the right, for the Advanced Playmaker on the right of the 3 man midfield. The Tempo needs to be either high or extremely high for this tactic.

In the Transition Instructions, Long Kick-Outs to the big Target Man fits the bill. Then the Counter instruction compliments the direct, high tempo passing into space. The last Instruction on the Transition list is Counter Press. Taylor loved the press, and his sides really chased and hunted down teams from the off.

Only one player has been given specific instructions, and he is the defensive midfielder in the middle of the 3 man midfield, he has been given the additional instruction of keep it simple, pass it shorter, and mark tighter. This along with the in-built instruction to hold position, gives the back three good protection.

In the first 4 matches, I used the 4-2-2-2 system, winning 2 and losing 2 before we switched to the 5-3-2 system. Here is the roles and duties of the 4-2-2-2, along with the instructions, which are mostly the same as the 5-3-2 team instructions.

[sparkyunited]

Have lurked on this thread for quite some time and tried hoof-ball on a few saves but I finally got the right combination of players and system going on my new Bath City FC save.  Have gone for a little bit of a hybrid hoof-ball with a lower line of engagement but some counter-pressing to force mistakes out of the opposition but depending on game management, I switch this to regroup at times.  The left winger is switched to an inside winger depending on personnel.  It's kinda Graham Taylor inspired, but mixed with a bit of traditional hoof-ball. 

In terms of PI's all wide players are set to cross to the TM and the BWM is set to man mark the opponents AMC when we encounter opposition who play one.  I will also watch the oppositions defensive line and switch on/off pass into space and if they go for a freakishly high line I may try the transition instruction to "distribute over opposition defence" if I am playing a fast striker in the PF(A) role. 

Eight games into the season and we are unbeaten and sitting in second in VNL South a point behind Torquay and two points over moneybags Billericary. Big Fella Brunt (appropriately named) is currently the joint top scorer in the league with 7 goals from 6 games and a 7.96 average rating.  He might be slow as a wet week but he is an absolute beast and his mental and physical attributes are off the charts for this level.  He is the perfect player to build this system around. 

Will provide an end of season update and see how things go for the rest of the year. Hoof-at it lads!

[crusadertsar]

What do people think of using Wide Targetman in hoofball? Does it work?

[sparkyunited]

45 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

What do people think of using Wide Targetman in hoofball? Does it work?

I tried it on FM18 and had a pretty effective 4-3-3 system going with Jamie Mackie smashing it in the WTM(A) role in my Plymouth save.  He just overpowered his marking Fullbacks and mostly scored from crosses coming in from a Winger on the opposite flank. It took a lot of tweaking but if you can get runners in front and behind him (say a BBM and/or WB on the same side)  it can be a really effective role.  I think I had either a Defensive Forward (now a pressing forward) or a DLF in the striker role and may have even offset them so the striker's starting position was in the left inside channel to free up space for the WTM.   The 4-3-3 ended up looking like a 4-4-2 at times.....I might have to give it another go at some stage on FM19. 

[kingjericho]

@sparkyunited keep us posted, I love the setup you have there. It seems a perfect fit for the English lower leagues. I wonder if it holds well against teams who sit back, though.

[Peljam]

On 20/12/2018 at 20:34, mylescattle said:

Evening all. Having been a long time reader of this wonderful thread on Hoofball, I’ve decided to finally contribute and share the tactics I’ve been using in my Graham Taylor career update. https://community.sigames.com/topic/459956-the-graham-taylor-career-journey/

 

The formation I’ve used the most in the save is a 5-3-2 line up. I had used a 4-2-2-2 formation in my first 4 matches of the save, but then I switched to a 5-3-2, when I realised I had better wing-backs than wingers. I might try and revert back to the 4-2-2-2, when I’ve gotten the suitable players in to play that system.

 

 

Loving the career thread And the 352. Looks like a good set up. It looks more defensively solid to me than a 442 would in a lot of sitations. I don't have the players for it though.

21 hours ago, sparkyunited said:

Eight games into the season and we are unbeaten and sitting in second in VNL South a point behind Torquay and two points over moneybags Billericary. Big Fella Brunt (appropriately named) is currently the joint top scorer in the league with 7 goals from 6 games and a 7.96 average rating.  He might be slow as a wet week but he is an absolute beast and his mental and physical attributes are off the charts for this level.  He is the perfect player to build this system around. 

Will provide an end of season update and see how things go for the rest of the year. Hoof-at it lads!

Brunt looks like a beast. It's all about the TM! Possibly the only position in the squad I'm willing to massively break the wage structure for.

6 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

What do people think of using Wide Targetman in hoofball? Does it work?

I've only used it a couple of times to either bully a small full back or as a last throw of the dice. To be honest it's always worked quite well I just don't have the players to do it consistently.

1 hour ago, kingjericho said:

@sparkyunited keep us posted, I love the setup you have there. It seems a perfect fit for the English lower leagues. I wonder if it holds well against teams who sit back, though.

Thats what the battering ram of a TM is for. They don't unlock defences, they trample over them.

[sparkyunited]

7 hours ago, kingjericho said:

@sparkyunited keep us posted, I love the setup you have there. It seems a perfect fit for the English lower leagues. I wonder if it holds well against teams who sit back, though.

I'm 14 games into the season and still unbeaten with seven league wins in a row (nine in total including the FA Cup) and teams are now starting to sit back against us in the last couple of games as the graphic below shows.  I'm dropping the pressing at times if we can't break them down and "regrouping" instead to draw them out a bit, but teams are starting to give me puzzles to solve which is always fun.   

We are still leaking the odd goal, but we tend to dominate most games in terms of chances while only averaging 45-50% of possession, which I'm also happy with.  Brunt is still scoring with 9 goals in 11 games in all comps so far be we're spreading them around with 15 different goalscorers which is amazing.    

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by sparkyunited

[sparkyunited]

Our unbeaten run finally came to an end at 16 games at the hands of Truro City but the lads bounced back with style.  5 points clear at the top. 

Really, really happy with the result against money bags Billericay.  Hoof-ball at it's finest.  Not sure if the latest update has changed the match engine to make things this much easier, but we are blowing through teams without too much trouble with our 4-4-2.  

[VinceLombardi]

3 hours ago, sparkyunited said:

Our unbeaten run finally came to an end at 16 games at the hands of Truro City but the lads bounced back with style.  Hoof-ball at it's finest.

Brunt is a madman. Keep it up.

[sparkyunited]

Just finished our first season and we stumbled over the line to promotion via the playoffs after finishing second to moneybags Billericay who bought ever player available.  We had a couple of decent cup runs as well which brought in some cash and fun games against opposition from higher leagues. 

We were flying high in the first half and seven points clear going into the second half of the season but teams started working us out and playing 4-1-4-1/4-3-3 systems against us and largely cut off supply to big Brunt.  Getting promoted was a fantastic result, but I think we should have won the league.  We had Billericay in our sights with two games to play and had to play them in our last game but we dropped a 4-3 result (after being 3-1 up) to Oxford City ending our title hopes.  I rested our entire starting squad for the final game as we'd blown it and Billericay smashed us 4-1 but it saved our tired legs for the playoffs where we dispatched with Welling Utd before clinching a last minute winner from a set piece in a 2-1 result over Dulwich in the final. 

The big fella still finished the year with 30 goals in 45 games in all comps (24 from 36 in the league) but at one point he was scoring at better than a goal a game.  His strike partner Fraser Murdoch picked up the slack and had an amazing second half of the year to finish with 20 goals from 44 games, so 50 goals from our two main strikers was an astonishing return.  Brad Carr, the right winger got 13 goals and a whopping 19 assists (9 and 14 in the league) and was our player of the seasons. 

From a tactical perspective, the big Fella is a massive unit so presents a fine target for long balls but equally as effective were the runs of Murdoch, the PF(A) into the right inside channel.  The Left WM, either fullback or the Central Midfielders would routinely launch balls into that channel for the PF to exploit the space in behind the fullback.  It's that Graham Taylor "space" thing.  It also reminded me of when Sven was managing England and he'd sometimes play the likes of Darius Vassell with another small fast striker during games and have them run onto long balls booted into the channels.  The striker pair would start centrally and then make lightning quick diagonal runs towards each corner flag.  It's the one tactical memory that sticks with me from when he managed England that I liked. 

Anyway....we're promoted and Hoofball did the trick! 

"POMO" much?? 

Edited December 29, 2018 by sparkyunited

[VinceLombardi]

Atta boy Brunt. Inspired the team to play bigger and better! Congrats on the promo. 

[Rub Me]

Hi guys. Interesting thread, I'm deffo going to try and give this a go. Just a quick question though,  what type of players do you think to sign? Obviously a strong target man is a must. 

[Peljam]

13 minutes ago, Rub Me said:

Hi guys. Interesting thread, I'm deffo going to try and give this a go. Just a quick question though,  what type of players do you think to sign? Obviously a strong target man is a must. 

It is rewarding when it works!

In terms of players it really depends on the type of hoofball you're going for and the level you are attempting it. Generally speaking your players are likely to be more physical, and potentially much more dimensional than players for other teams. But this can shift a bit as you get higher and higher up. I'm with Ramsbottom United in the 10th tier of England, I'm lucky if my players can run and do one other thing well!

For example I don't need my CB's to have great on the ball skills. They need to defend, run, hoof it forwards and head the ball. I don't need all round attacking wingbacks with Cafu like free kick skills. They just need to defend, get the ball forward, and ideally be good at crossing (and this is a luxury sometimes) and long throws.

Having great technical passers is nice, and does help with pinpoint longballs up front, but to be honest you don't need it if you can kick the ball long in the right sort of areas, assuming you have that targetman ready to take over and do the work. The passer can do the work, or the player receiving the ball can do the work. Often in hoofball it's the player (or battering ram of a targetman) that is doing the work when the ball gets into those positions of maximum opportunity.

In terms of Targetmen I'd have a look at  @sparkyunited's Brunt in the posts above. He's a beast and fits the role well.

[Peljam]

Also been thinking about a tweak to my tactic...

 

Having a targetman is awesome...so why not have two? One on Attack and one on Support? Is this madness?

 

EDIT: My experiment failed. Only played a few games, still made chances, but it was all very static.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Peljam
Results

[phnompenhandy]

4 hours ago, Rub Me said:

Hi guys. Interesting thread, I'm deffo going to try and give this a go. Just a quick question though,  what type of players do you think to sign? Obviously a strong target man is a must. 

Doing an academy challenge, I can't choose who joins my club, but I have a great lower league counter-attacking hoofball tactic going without a target man. 

Instead I have a slight striker who is quick, can finish, and crucially has good off-the-ball movement. The ball is hoofed without much accuracy up the pitch with opposition lumbering centre backs in the vicinity. With speed, movement and a bit of anticipation, my striker can get onto a few and convert one or two on a good day. My other forward in a KISS 4-4-2 is a pressing forward who helps to keep the defence occupied to make more room.

[Peljam]

10 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

Doing an academy challenge, I can't choose who joins my club, but I have a great lower league counter-attacking hoofball tactic going without a target man. 

Instead I have a slight striker who is quick, can finish, and crucially has good off-the-ball movement. The ball is hoofed without much accuracy up the pitch with opposition lumbering centre backs in the vicinity. With speed, movement and a bit of anticipation, my striker can get onto a few and convert one or two on a good day. My other forward in a KISS 4-4-2 is a pressing forward who helps to keep the defence occupied to make more room.

Adding to this for @Rub Me you can have lots of different set ups and pairings that don't always have a targetman. It goes back I think to the short video of Graham Taylor explaining types of long ball - into space or into player. Both lend themselves to different types of strikers.

[Rub Me]

16 hours ago, Peljam said:

It is rewarding when it works!

In terms of players it really depends on the type of hoofball you're going for and the level you are attempting it. Generally speaking your players are likely to be more physical, and potentially much more dimensional than players for other teams. But this can shift a bit as you get higher and higher up. I'm with Ramsbottom United in the 10th tier of England, I'm lucky if my players can run and do one other thing well!

For example I don't need my CB's to have great on the ball skills. They need to defend, run, hoof it forwards and head the ball. I don't need all round attacking wingbacks with Cafu like free kick skills. They just need to defend, get the ball forward, and ideally be good at crossing (and this is a luxury sometimes) and long throws.

Having great technical passers is nice, and does help with pinpoint longballs up front, but to be honest you don't need it if you can kick the ball long in the right sort of areas, assuming you have that targetman ready to take over and do the work. The passer can do the work, or the player receiving the ball can do the work. Often in hoofball it's the player (or battering ram of a targetman) that is doing the work when the ball gets into those positions of maximum opportunity.

In terms of Targetmen I'd have a look at  @sparkyunited's Brunt in the posts above. He's a beast and fits the role well.

Thanks man. I started unemployed and took over Guiseley after the first quarter of the season where they were in the relegation zone in the VNN. I accepted their offer because they've already got a 6 foot 6 TM n the squad. 3 games into hoofball and we've drawn 2-2 away at 3rd in the league and won two other games 1 and 2-0 respectively. What stats would you look at to see if hoofball is truly working?

[Peljam]

36 minutes ago, Rub Me said:

Thanks man. I started unemployed and took over Guiseley after the first quarter of the season where they were in the relegation zone in the VNN. I accepted their offer because they've already got a 6 foot 6 TM n the squad. 3 games into hoofball and we've drawn 2-2 away at 3rd in the league and won two other games 1 and 2-0 respectively. What stats would you look at to see if hoofball is truly working?

No problem. Good start! Good size TM as well.

It might sound obvious but the match performance is key. Watching the highlights will tell you more to begin with than the stats as A) the tactic is bedding in and you are getting used to players, B) stats in the short term are more easily biased by extremes, and C) Hoofball is a percentages game in a way that a lot of other philosophies aren't. A lot of longballs might not work, and that doesn't show up in the game stats as well as other 'successful actions'.

 

For me A and C are the key points. You are hoofing it forward and often there are going to be issues - the delivery might not be right, you might lose the battle for the ball in the air, you might win the first ball but not the 2nd etc. Each potentially means something different and very little of that will be captured as a meaningful stat in the short term. If you're watching enough of the highlights you'll be able to see if your players are attempting the right passes, getting into the right areas...or not. For example if your deeper players are getting the ball into the right areas consistently but you're not winning the 1st ball then there's potentially an issue with the TM. But if the TM is winning the first ball consistently but no one is picking up the flick on or the pass then there's an issue with the support or position, and so on.

 

Once you played enough matches though then things like the Tactics analysis can be useful for working out where the goal assists are coming from - long ball, through ball, cross, square ball, free kick etc. I wouldn't take it as 100% accurate as I'm not sure what it considers through and what it considers long. In 23 league games I've got 4 goals from long balls and 17 from throughballs according to that. To me I think we played a lot more long ball assists. I'd keep in mind with this as well that it is focussed on assists so there'll be lots it doesn't pick up as there was no goal (though there is a chance creation screen too).

You can also use things like the passing map when you have enough games to look at as well.

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by Peljam
POMO's innit