My guide to hoofball

[Scoham]

Introduction

Something I love about FM is the way there are many different ways to be successful, just like in real life football. For example you can mainly focus on tactics, scouting or youth development. You can tweak tactics game by game, analysing the smallest details. You can concentrate on improving your squad year on year, built around one main system. You can develop your own players from your academy, or completely ignore it and sign players rejected by other clubs.

On FM16 I took Merthyr Tydfil from non-league to the Premier League. My aim was to do it playing passing football. After several seasons without progress in I settled on a short passing, very fluid 4-4-1-1 and eventually reached my goal with only minor tweaks as time went on.

Going into FM17 I wanted to try something similar - but instead of passing football, a dull, defensive long ball game. I started with Edinburgh City in Scotland's League Two. I eventually abandoned that style of football after failing to make it work. Having made it to the Scottish Premier after around 9 seasons I wanted to try out the hoofball idea again and see if I could win games, in more of a test save than a serious career.

The Club

For this save I picked a club with history of this style of play - AFC Wimbledon. As a club in the English third tier this gave a nice balance for a test save between trying it out at the highest level - where squads aren't typically built for the style, and it may take more effort to implement, and non-league, where players are a lot less well rounded with fewer strengths and bigger weaknesses.

Wimbledon were ideal with a number of hard working players and importantly, two target men in Tom Elliott and Tyrone Barnett. I signed England legend Emile Heskey to ensure we always had a target man available.

I started off pre-season initially playing 4-4-2, getting a draw against Slough before 3-0 defeats to both Watford and QPR. After a break from the save I gave it another go, this time trying a 5-3-2.

We went on to beat Wycombe and Oxford City 2-0, either side of a 1-1 draw with Bath. These were reasonable results so I took the same plan into competitive games. To cut a long story short we finished 3rd, narrowly missing out on 2nd before losing to Sheff Utd in the play-off final. Had I taken things a little more seriously we may have got the two extra points required for automatic promotion. However, promotion was never something I was aiming for, it was more an experiment to see if I could compete, and perhaps overachieve, while playing an ugly route one style.

The Formation

As explained above I settled on 5-3-2. Playing direct style one requirement of mine was to use a target man. Being an immobile role the player needs plenty of support. One way to do that is to give them a strike partner, someone quicker who can run in behind is one option - the classic big man/little man combo.

One issue with 4-4-2 is the lack of numbers centrally against other formations, particularly 4-5-1 variants such as 4-2-3-1. Rather than adapt a 4-4-2 game by game I went with two MCs and a DM. A DM gives the two MCs more freedom to support the target man.

Every formation leaves gaps which the opposition can potentially exploit. Playing 3 DCs and wing backs means that space is out wide, where opponents playing two wide players on each side could make it difficult for a lone wing back. However as a physical, defensive side, the idea was that our 3 CBs and DM could deal with crosses, while a bottom heavy formation would make it difficult for teams to attack through the middle.

Team Instructions

This can be summed up much like Cleon's section on TIs in his art of possession article. There are a number of instructions that could be selected for hoofball but use too many and the style of play will be so specific and limited that it's unlikely to be successful. I kept it fairly simple with just six, sometimes using others depending on the situation at the time within a match.

Mentality - Standard

The obvious thing to do here is to pick defensive or counter - sit deep and grind out results. Alternatively control or attacking would make the team push higher up the pitch, attempting to press the opposition to stop them from passing the ball out from the back.

I went for standard to give a balance. Too deep and the long balls won't get high enough up the pitch. Too high and the lack of possession such a style creates will leave us vulnerable to balls over the top.

Team Shape - Highly Structured

Reading threads and articles on tactics sometimes people can overcomplicate this. The main reason for this choice is simple. I want to my players to focus on specific jobs.

The defenders and more defensive players need to avoid taking risks. When a long ball attempt inevitably falls to the opposition, as it regularly will, this keeps them deep and in position, ready to deal with an opposition attack. Meanwhile our attacking players need to aggressively attack to support the target man or find space, especially in behind the opposition. Using a standard mentality the support players find a balance between the two.

Go Route One

Along with a target man a key part of the style. It doesn't mean every ball will be long and hopeful - once the ball is in the opposition half players will still link up with shorter passes.

Pass Into Space

With route one passing we're not going to keep possession. Whenever space opens up we want to use it. With our team shape our defensive players are less willing to take risks, this encourages them to look for passes into space, as well as the rest of the team.

Hit Early Crosses

Much like "go route one" and "pass into space" this encourages the team to look for the killer ball as soon as possible. Most crosses will come from our two wing backs, this help to avoid them trying to beat players with dribbling and instead get the cross into the box at the earliest opportunity.

Exploit the Right/Left Flank

With our formation and team shape, plus wing backs on support roles (more on that later) this makes their mentality slightly more aggressive. If we can't attack quickly through the middle I want the team to keep the ball high up the pitch and if required get it out wide before looking for a cross.

Higher Tempo

Going route one decreases the tempo. I increased it slightly to avoid players dwelling on the ball for too long. Take too long and a crossing or through ball opportunity could be missed.

As a further note I used "get stuck in" during games rather than a standard instruction. This should naturally come from using aggressive, determined and hard working players. Using it constantly is likely to result in a lot more cards, suspensions and maybe even injuries for my own players.

Player Roles and Instructions

Goalkeeper - defend

Keeping it simple here with three instructions to support the style - take long kicks, distribute to target man and distribute quickly.

DCR and DCL - central defender stopper

Two CD Stoppers. The idea being that they can press opponents but still have plenty of support around them, given the formation. I tried this initially and found no reason to change it. It may be that other duties could work better, it's not something I tried.

DC - central defender defend

A simple central defender on defend. I did start the season re-training Tom Soares to be a ball-playing defender, to give the team a DC that was more ambitious in starting attacks. I was winning games but didn't stick with it, though it's something to consider.

DM - defensive midfielder support

With three CBs I didn't want a DM standing on their toes. I also wanted the DM closer to the MCs to help win second balls. The PIs hold position, dribble less and shoot less often helps remove any temptation for the player to take an unnecessary risk.

WBR and WBL - wing back support

The support duty ensures they do their bit defensively. I avoided attacking duties as the PIs encourage the player to run with the ball and cross from the byline, the complete opposite of what I want to see. I added cross often, cross from deep and cross aim centre (where players are more likely to score from) to their PIs.

MCR - box to box midfielder support

Roam from position plus moves into channels (and shoots less often) encourages plenty of movement but the support duty stops this being too aggressive. Perfect alongside the MCL...

MCL - central midfielder attack

This player has the same instructions as the MCR but the attack duty means they'll get forward more often, helping to provide the target man with close support.

STR - poacher attack

The main goal threat in the side. I purposely avoid adding roam from positions or move into channels here to keep the poacher as close as possible to the target man. The pass into space TI balances out the fewer risky passes default PI here. Although I expect the poacher to be greedy if an obvious through ball is on he should go for it. I added close down much more to encourage the poacher to press the opposition and found no reason to remove it.

STL - target man support/attack

The main man. Like the poacher I added close down much more, and additionally I included shoot less often to cut down on hopeful long shots. I mainly used a support role to begin with, and later found attack could also be effective. There are arguments for both, the way to go is to probably adjust game by game if necessary, or depending on the player you have and what works best.

Opposition Instructions

A key part to the tactic. Basically we never tight mark wide or defensive players. We're happy for them to get the ball. Deeper players are unlikely to create or score a goal, wide players are encouraged to cross into our crowded penalty area, filled with big strong players that dominate in the air.

The show onto foot instructions encourage the ball to be moved out wide.

Before each game I tended to check the weaker foot of MCs, AMs and STs, sometimes adding show onto weaker foot, closing down and/or hard tackling instructions.

Summary Statistics

From the League One detailed season statistics after the season ended:

·         We won the most headers in the league.

·         We had the highest ratio of winning headers.

·         We completed the 4th most crosses.

·         We had the worst average possession and worst pass completion ratio.

·         We had the 10th best defence and scored the 6th most goals.

·         We won the most tackles, but only had the 19th highest tackles won ratio.

·         We gave away the most penalties.

·         Poacher Lyle Taylor was the 2nd highest league goalscorer with 26.

·         Target man Tom Elliot had the 3rd highest average rating and the most key passes.

·         Defensive midfielder Nadjim Abdou had the 10th highest average rating. A great signing from Millwall for £50k.

·         We had three of the top four players for highest distance covered.

·         We had the top four players for most mistakes, but only one player featured in the list for mistakes leading to goals.

Individual games often showed the opposition put in a lot of crosses, with the majority not being completed. Long shots were more mixed, but there were a number of games in which opponents were regularly shooting from range and these rarely resulted in a goal.

(match stat screenshots to be added)

Pitch Size

I went with the smallest possible simply to restrict the space the opposition have. We won 15 home league games, drew none and lost 8. Given our season expectations of 20th this was a success. A bigger pitch may help us score goals but is likely to make it easier for opponents to find space themselves.

Improving the System

If I were to continue playing, or for anyone looking to play such a style:

·         We took too many long shots. If players have more and better support this should be cut down. There are various ways this could be done - there is only so much the PI can do if players are left without any choice but to shoot from range.

·         Set pieces - I didn't make the most of these, it was definitely an area with room for improvement.

·         Sign a long throw specialist - fits alongside the above.

·         Adapting to opposition - our form dropped off in the second half of the season. Sometimes I found playing more defensive helped. After such a good start we were often favourites to win, meaning teams wouldn't leave as much space in behind, something we had been very good at taking advantage of.

·         It would be interesting to develop similar style that's equally succesful using a 4-4-2.

A key point to remember is that you're ideally trying to consistently grind out results. Due to that the small margins in football are even more important than usual. A poor tactical choice could be the difference between a narrow win and a narrow defeat. Managers like Pulis and Allardyce don't just tell 11 powerful players to kick it long and tackle hard, they look for any advantage they can through exploiting weaknesses in opponents and finding ways to make the most of the players they have.

Other Reading

Various articles on long ball, Wimbledon, Tony Pulis, Sam Allardyce and Graham Taylor's style of play:

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11698/10803578/is-tony-pulis-so-called-pulisball-the-most-effective-way-for-west-brom

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/hilarious-hijinks-and-hoofball-real-story-wimbledons-crazy-gang

https://www.shortlist.com/entertainment/sport/the-story-of-wimbledons-crazy-gang/74137

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/09/premier-league-football-clubs-computer-analysts-managers-data-winning

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/performance/tactics/graham-taylor-playing-long-ball

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/graham-taylor-dead-flourish-watford-aston-villa-legacy-live-longest-england-manager-a7524671.html

http://www.squawka.com/news/graham-taylor-how-englands-first-great-pragmatist-influenced-football-tactics/876173

[Scoham]

Post reserved - will try to add a few videos from games

[Jean0987654321]

Looks promising. Route One soccer isn't pleasing to the eye so that's why I don't usually make those systems myself. Good to see some success with such a "negative" game

[Cleon]

This looks really good. It's great seeing someone set up a keeper for this style, it's something I was doing not so long ago and the results were surprising. Especially which how effective it was at times.

[TCSSkin]

Tried something like this myself but it didn't click. I still rely upon match stats too much, despite knowing they're not a be all and end all. 

 

Got promoted S1 with Oldham, so I may give this a go in the championship!

[Atarin]

Would love to be able to play this way. Never managed to get it work, unfortunately. Will reread this article and try and absorb some ideas.

Its a pity that the video of the Graham Taylor interview doesn't work. Would have loved to seen that.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Atarin

[Cleon]

 

1 hour ago, Atarin said:

Would love to be able to play this way. Never managed to get it work, unfortunately. Will reread this article and try and absorb some ideas.

Its a pity that the video of the Graham Taylor interview doesn't work. Would have loved to seen that.

That works @Atarin

[Armistice]

This is very interesting. Good stuff mate.

[Atarin]

@Cleon how would you go about turning this into a functioning 4-4-2?

Edited October 2, 2017 by Atarin

[blackdevil]

On 10/2/2017 at 18:12, Atarin said:

@Cleon how would you go about turning this into a functioning 4-4-2?

It's worth looking at Cleon's site for the article about the Arsenal invincibles team as it has the base for a direct style of play.

The Graham Taylor video above also gives clues as how he'd setup a direct 4-4-2 with the positioning of the blue markers.  If you ignore the one to many that is

Of particular note is the variation he mentions of playing in behind the defence for forward to run on to in the chanels or playing into a forward to control the ball and then bring others into play.  I think he chose his words quite well when explaing it.

[Experienced Defender]

On 02/10/2017 at 19:12, Atarin said:

@Cleon how would you go about turning this into a functioning 4-4-2?

As someone who likes long-ball football, I'll tell you how I would try to do it with a 442 (provided you have the right players):

TMs    P

 

IWs    BWMd    BtBM    WMs

 

FBs    CDd     CDc     IWBd

GK

Standard/Highly Structured

TIs: lower tempo, go route one, play narrower, early crosses

GK - slow pace down, long kick, distribute to TM

IWs - get further forward, sit narrower

BtBM - get further forward, more risky passes

WMs - hold position, stay wider, cross from deep, cross to TM

FBs - stay wider, cross from deep, cross to TM

TM & P - close down more

[johnnyyakuza78]

Yeah fantastic thread, just the sort of football I always love to try to create (often unsuccessfully) 

Often I find with 'long ball' football that I encounter the same problems:

1) Giving the ball away a lot and having to rush back into a defensive shape almost immediately. The usual issue being that the ball is lumped forward to a target man, he is surrounded by defenders and crowded out. Even the best target men struggle in that situation. When teams learn to sit back against you a bit more it becomes even more difficult to find space.

2) Having to sit back and defend a lot is pretty stressful and requires a team who can sit back and concentrate and keep position well. I rarely manage to keep clean sheets this way. 

3) I guess the other option would be to play a very high, very intense block/press meaning that you are actively trying to win the ball back and lump it further forward. This could work as it means your target man is closer to goal. 

[pezza96]

8 hours ago, johnnyyakuza78 said:

Yeah fantastic thread, just the sort of football I always love to try to create (often unsuccessfully) 

Often I find with 'long ball' football that I encounter the same problems:

1) Giving the ball away a lot and having to rush back into a defensive shape almost immediately. The usual issue being that the ball is lumped forward to a target man, he is surrounded by defenders and crowded out. Even the best target men struggle in that situation. When teams learn to sit back against you a bit more it becomes even more difficult to find space.

2) Having to sit back and defend a lot is pretty stressful and requires a team who can sit back and concentrate and keep position well. I rarely manage to keep clean sheets this way. 

3) I guess the other option would be to play a very high, very intense block/press meaning that you are actively trying to win the ball back and lump it further forward. This could work as it means your target man is closer to goal. 

I tried something similar to what you mentioned in point 3 with helsingsborgs, weirdly the inspiration came after watching a documentary on Jack Charltons Ireland team, was set up like this; (flexible/attacking) TI's, close down much more, go route one, hit early crosses, clear ball to flanks, pass into space

gk-d

fb-s dcb dcb fb-s

dw-s cm-d bwm-s dw-s 

df-s tm-a 

The aim was to turn the opposition as quickly as possible by putting it into the space behind the oppo full backs for the winger and df to chase, was brutally effective, won promotion in first season and then the league in my second season, unfortunately my save died as I tried to tinker with my approach, a rookie mistake. I defo think this approach can be effective however I made many signings prioritising work rate, height, strength and teamwork (I didnt have a player under 6ft) and i think without these I wouldnt have been successful as the tactic itself has quite a lot of flaws

[johnnyyakuza78]

 

This post has inspired me to reignite my Crazy Gang Wimbledon save, and really try something a bit different regarding Route one tactics. 

Usually I go with a defensive mentality, inspired by Pulis, to sit back and wait for chances to come to me, hitting long balls behind the opposition. This does however result in some panicky play and lots of goals conceded. Also I don't like the style of football, it doesn't feel like it embodied how I imagined my new Crazy Gang.

My set up is this:

442 or 4411

GK - Sweeper keeper support, distribute to target man, more risky passes. I really wanted to make this guy the hub of my attacks, rather than just a boring GK.

DR - Support - Cross more. Both Fullbacks need to be starting attacks.
DL - Support
Defensive CB - Neither of my defenders are great on the ball, and I want them lumping it far more.
Ball Playing CB - This guy is a bit better and I want him also starting moves.. but directly.

Inverted Winger left  Attack - Want this guy to be speeding up the left but also running into the box to cause panic
Winger Right Support - Need lots of crosses
Central mid Defend
Central mid Support

Target man  - Fewer risky passes, Tackle Harder
Poacher / Shadow Striker 

The main change however is that I go Overload / Highly Structured. This seems suicidal but the Team Shape means that my defenders are actually not very attacking and there is loads of room between the strata for those long passes. It results in tons of chances, and the big difference is that when I lump balls up front there is plenty of support there straight away.

 

Also should note that I lowered tempo often because Overloads tempo is stupidly high and it leads to lots of rushed passes. Lowering it just a little seems to be enough to bring some common sense to the decision making.

The football is certainly Crazy though. And successful too.



 

Edited September 26, 2018 by johnnyyakuza78

[johnnyyakuza78]

[Jommelb]

Keep us posted, I like the idea, but it seems a little extreme. 

[Atarin]

@johnnyyakuza78 you've brought a tear to my eye with that tactic. God bless hoof ball.

[kpsia518]

here a route one 443 for big team,i think this one is the best so far for route one tactic :

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-18-tactics/367639-tactics-differant-forums-{around-world}-49.html#post3176007

[johnnyyakuza78]

9 hours ago, Jommelb said:

Keep us posted, I like the idea, but it seems a little extreme. 

On paper it sounds extreme but when I look at the balance of mentalities using Highly Structured it really isn’t all that bad.

It does result in far more shots and a lot of running around, but actually that is exactly the sort of all action football I wanted to create. I’m building a team of workers and nutters who are fast and strong and so this fits perfectly. 

Ill have to see how it does against bigger teams though, I doubt it will survive long against them. But my issue with Hoofball tactics is how poorly they do against teams who sit deep against you, this has helped me over come that so far.

 

[johnnyyakuza78]

Without overtaking this topic (the OP doesn't seem to be that active anyway) I thought I would update where I got to using my overload Hoofball tactic. 

The good news:

1) I got AFC Wimbledon promoted in my second season, expectation being avoid relegation. We came second to a rampant Blackburn side.
2) My side played in a way that fitted my design in that it was a style of football based around long balls, hard tackling and lots of running around.
3) We came first for goals scored and almost last for possession.

The bad news:

1) My overload tactic needed constant tweaking and really struggled against good sides or when the target man and attacking forward weren't performing. These long ball tactics are heavily reliant on my strikers being clinical and doing their job and sometimes that didn't happen. I often needed to play with defensive line, width and tempo to get things improving.
2) I conceded a lot of goals. I was letting 3-4 goals in some matches and it simply isn't sustainable. Even with a lower defensive line and defending mids the ball is coming back at you a lot and your team is heavily stretched. 
3) I had to create a second tactic that is closer to my usual Pulis counter hoofball. This kept clean sheets far better and actually feels very close to how many long ball sides play when holding a lead or playing against big sides. I'm disappointed this was necessary and I'm a little angry at myself for not sticking to my principles when in pursuit of glory. 

Almost all my goals came from my 3 best strikers. Taylor and Appiah are fantastic speed merchants and I bought Ollie Palmer to be my target man, he is as one dimensional as they come but he pops up with a lot of goals too mainly due to Taylor's movement.

Top goal scorers in the league.

Second bottom for possession however, Exeter must be really bad!


 
This is my counter tactic, its got the core of the overload tactic but its far closer to a Pulis style Hoofball. My defence and midfield are pretty unambitious, the fullbacks are instructed to sit narrower, my wingers work hard to protect the flanks, my GK hits it to the TM a lot. 

Many of my goals seem to come from a long pass out from my DCB , bypassing midfield and hitting Taylor. That feels good. 

So overall very happy with my Hoofball this season, sad that I can't manage to play the insane Overload tactic every game, but  I do tend to start with it, hoping to grab a goal and then sit back. Next season might be a struggle, but my ambition is to bring in better wingers and more hard tackling midfielders to add some bit. I also want to convert some Central Defenders into Defensive Full backs. 
 

Edited October 5, 2018 by johnnyyakuza78

[Scoham]

No worries about overtaking the thread, feel free to use it for sharing your own hoofball experiences.

I’m now waiting for FM19 to come out, planning on sticking with anti-football for my only save. Would love to take one of the more obscure non-league clubs to the top playing long ball all the way. 

[Peljam]

Thanks everyone for this thread. I'm been trying to put together a Wimbledon inspired tactic for my Scarborough team and this thread really helped (as did watching the Crazy Gang documentary and shouting 'STICK IT IN THE MIXER!' at my players).

I've tried a 4411, a 442 (flat), a 41221 with edited versions of the route one preset. But based on the above (and the fact none of those were very attacking), I've now settled on what is essentially a 424. I'm getting more shots, kicking the crap out of the other teams and playing genuine hoofs. Needs some tweaking but next step is to buy a decent and unhinged targetman. 

[Scoham]

I’ve started my FM19 save, holidayed for a season and taken over at South Shields. They met my requirements for a club:

✅ Northern

✅ Not a “United”, “City”, “Town” etc (sounds much more Sunday league without that)

✅ Proper non-league, not recent ex-FL (they were at level 10 a few years back, since had 3 promotions in a row)

Interesting to see they were once a tier 2 side though, back in the 1920s.

Not played the first friendly yet but signed 3 strikers (seemed to be the main weakness in the squad) all with the physical and reasonable striker attributes to be dangerous in the National League North.

IRL they have FL ambitions, something they call “Project EFL”:

https://southshieldsfc.co.uk/project-efl-join-us-on-our-journey/

I’ve agreed up my philosophies with the board - direct football, sign youngsters for the first team and bring youth through. I’m hoping to develop players to sell on and then invest in the scouting setup, facilities, youth coaching/recruitment etc to really build the club up.

A quick tip, I was looking to see which young players bigger north eastern clubs had released, it seems they’re no longer shown on the “All” transfers out page. You need to change the drop down to youth, so “All” actually means first team.

[Peljam]

17 hours ago, Scoham said:

A quick tip, I was looking to see which young players bigger north eastern clubs had released, it seems they’re no longer shown on the “All” transfers out page. You need to change the drop down to youth, so “All” actually means first team.

Thanks for the tip. I missed that when setting up with Scarborough. Recruitment seems key at this level. I've got the tactic set up in a way that should work, and I'm seeing flashes of violent brilliance but my players were terrible (my fault, I signed them) and just couldn't do it. Strikers were too slow for the ball behind, but too weak for the chaos of a true targetman role. Midfielders were playing long balls rather than long passes which my terrible strikers couldn't rescue.

The dream with Scarborough is over but I think I've tweaked the tactic to a point where the right recruitment next time should work.

[kingjericho]

I love a good hoofball setup, and this will likely be my first attempt in the new save. I'm thinking about a basic 4-4-2 with simple settings.

GK/D

FB/S - LD/D - LD/D - FB/S

W/A - BWM/D - CM/S - W/A

TM/S - P/A

Mentality Standard

More direct passing

Get Stuck In

Stick to Positions

[Peljam]

I might stick my latest tactic in here tomorrow. I've gone for a 523 as my wingers are terrible.

 

I have my Fullbacks or Wingbacks cross from deep to the targetman. The targetman is on support and has a poacher and a false9 or an advanced forward playing off them.

2 hours ago, kingjericho said:

I love a good hoofball setup, and this will likely be my first attempt in the new save. I'm thinking about a basic 4-4-2 with simple settings.

GK/D

FB/S - LD/D - LD/D - FB/S

W/A - BWM/D - CM/S - W/A

TM/S - P/A

Mentality Standard

More direct passing

Get Stuck In

Stick to Positions

Targetman/Poacher combo seems like the way to go I think. I have my central pair set up like yours (though sometimes I have the CM/S as a DLP/S).

[Peljam]

Not sure how everyone else is doing with the glorious hoofball in FM19 but I've been struggling (until my latest season). I made a few rookie errors and got to the point were I had a flat back 5 and an anchor man hoofing to increasingly isolated (and rubbish) strikers. It was not effective and although I was getting most of my goals from long balls, through balls and deep crosses I wasn't getting many goals overall, and I was shipping a lot of goals in return. I did (across two seasons) have the most tackles, fouls and yellow cards - and the least possession.

I think the biggest mistake I made was ignoring the cautious mentality on the pre-set. I just thought I couldn't attack properly with a cautious mentality, that cautious would equal less shots and attacking would equal more. But actually having the cautious mentality means the long balls are actually more useful long passes that penetrate the defense properly, and if you have the right movement you end up with quite a few shots.

I moved to a new club (Portadown, a step up from Grantham and Scarborough) and started from scratch. Made a few changes to the general instructions, and to the fullback instructions. I have a 442 now and it is working wonders. I'm scoring more, I have more shots (with my old system I averaged about 6 shots a game. I'm now averaging about 13), and I have more clean sheets. The goals are mainly from long passes, crosses from deep or from set piece scrambles.

I've actually got 3 versions of the 442. One that is pure long ball (and is doing wonders), one that is based on the direct counter preset, and a 442 for retaining possession (which I've not used much but is there if I need to protect a lead against a smaller side).

If they work this season I'll post the long ball one. The main changes though from the preset have been to add pass into space, lower time wasting, distribute to the centre backs, and to change both fullbacks to cross from deep + cross to targetman.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Peljam
STICK IT IN THE MIXER!

[Mindtrick_42]

13 hours ago, Peljam said:

Not sure how everyone else is doing with the glorious hoofball in FM19 but I've been struggling (until my latest season). I made a few rookie errors and got to the point were I had a flat back 5 and an anchor man hoofing to increasingly isolated (and rubbish) strikers. It was not effective and although I was getting most of my goals from long balls, through balls and deep crosses I wasn't getting many goals overall, and I was shipping a lot of goals in return. I did (across two seasons) have the most tackles, fouls and yellow cards - and the least possession.

I think the biggest mistake I made was ignoring the cautious mentality on the pre-set. I just thought I couldn't attack properly with a cautious mentality, that cautious would equal less shots and attacking would equal more. But actually having the cautious mentality means the long balls are actually more useful long passes that penetrate the defense properly, and if you have the right movement you end up with quite a few shots.

I moved to a new club (Portadown, a step up from Grantham and Scarborough) and started from scratch. Made a few changes to the general instructions, and to the fullback instructions. I have a 442 now and it is working wonders. I'm scoring more, I have more shots (with my old system I averaged about 6 shots a game. I'm now averaging about 13), and I have more clean sheets. The goals are mainly from long passes, crosses from deep or from set piece scrambles.

I've actually got 3 versions of the 442. One that is pure long ball (and is doing wonders), one that is based on the direct counter preset, and a 442 for retaining possession (which I've not used much but is there if I need to protect a lead against a smaller side).

If they work this season I'll post the long ball one. The main changes though from the preset have been to add pass into space, lower time wasting, distribute to the centre backs, and to change both fullbacks to cross from deep + cross to targetman.

I have tried to create a longball tactic with a poacher and a TM, but have been unsuccessful so far. Hope this works for you because it would be interesting to hear more about your tactic. 

If you don't mind me asking, what roles do you use on the midfield flanks? Do you stick to the preset roles? 

[Peljam]

1 hour ago, Mindtrick_42 said:

I have tried to create a longball tactic with a poacher and a TM, but have been unsuccessful so far. Hope this works for you because it would be interesting to hear more about your tactic. 

If you don't mind me asking, what roles do you use on the midfield flanks? Do you stick to the preset roles? 

I've stuck mainly to the roles. I've sometimes swapped them over - so the default has the attacking winger on the right. I move them to the left depending on who I have available. If I do that then I flip the front two around as well so the tactic is mirrored.

 

 

So this is my normal long ball.

In possesion I've added pass into space, removed time waiting and changed creative freedom to more expressive.

Both fullbacks have these instructions. I've also told the BBM to shoot less often, and depending on the wingers I also tell them to shoot less often usually.

 

I've told the GK to roll it out quickly to the CB's. Because they are no nonsense the CB's then tend to hoof it forward centrally for the TM or the PF to run onto, or they pass to the FB's who either cross from deep or get it to the wingers who are likely to try and cross further up the pitch. If your keeper is marked then they tend to hoof it forward anyway.

I decided on that rather than distribute to the TM or over the defense because I find getting it to the CB's first means the opposition move a bit whereas straight from the keeper they tend to have regrouped and be in a better defensive position. Plus my keeper isn't great at kicking it that far. I think I might mix it up and go for distrubute to the TM or over the top of the defense if I get a better kicker, and a faster Pressing Forward. I can't bring anyone in at the moment.

 

I can't remember if I made many changes here. I think I upped the pressing urgency a touch, made sure get stuck in was on. I might have made the line of engagement slightly higher because of the pressing forward. He's nicked a goal so far.

 

It's still early days but I've played 9 with the new tactics, won 6, drawn 3. Goals For: 15, Goals Against: 5, with 5 clean sheets.

 

This has the last 10 games. The game I played before the long ball I lost 2-1, and that's where that single short pass goal has come from. This tool is really good for working out where the goals are coming from but it does tend to say it's a through ball assist rather than a long ball. I think some of those through balls were closer to the long ball.

I've not made any set piece changes yet. I think at the end of the season I might tweak things to include more long throws.  Hope this helps!

If not here's my long ball counter...

 

Mainly the preset positions. Made the same changes to the FB instructions, and shoot less instructions. The main difference is the distribution in transition. I've not used this much yet so I don't know how it holds up.

 

EDIT: My tally of goals for and against from the schedule doesn't seem to match the data analysis. Fixtures below. Larne was the non-new long ball. Everything after is glorious hoofball.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Peljam
'Ave it

[z464]

I'm using almost the same formation and tactic .

Mentally / shape  : control  / structured

TI : pass into space , deeper line , whipper cross . 

Issue : I lost lots possession when my 2 wbs have ball , DLPs at the position help me a little bit than I use DMs . 

 

                          CFs

                          AMs 

                 BBMs    CMa

   WBs             DLPs              WBs

              CDs   CDd  CDs 

                         GK

[Peljam]

34 minutes ago, z464 said:

I'm using almost the same formation and tactic .

Mentally / shape  : control  / structured

TI : pass into space , deeper line , whipper cross . 

Issue : I lost lots possession when my 2 wbs have ball , DLPs at the position help me a little bit than I use DMs . 

 

                          CFs

                          AMs 

                 BBMs    CMa

   WBs             DLPs              WBs

              CDs   CDd  CDs 

                         GK

How are they losing possession? Are they getting tackled whilst on the ball? Or passing long to the CF or AM but getting intercepted/delivering a poor ball?

I'm no expert but I'd be tempted to change that AMs to a TMs and change the CF role to attacking.

[z464]

31 minutes ago, Peljam said:

How are they losing possession? Are they getting tackled whilst on the ball? Or passing long to the CF or AM but getting intercepted/delivering a poor ball?

I'm no expert but I'd be tempted to change that AMs to a TMs and change the CF role to attacking.

Both situation happened to me .  

After I turned my DMs to DLPs , both wbs will pass to DLP rather than pass long forward or losing the ball at own half . 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Peljam said:

I'm no expert but I'd be tempted to change that AMs to a TMs and change the CF role to attacking.

Absolutely  Long-ball football requires a TM and works better with 2 strikers than with a lone one. Depending on the formation you use and on the TM's duty, the other striker should be either a poacher/AF or DLF/CF. 

[Peljam]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Absolutely  Long-ball football requires a TM and works better with 2 strikers than with a lone one. Depending on the formation you use and on the TM's duty, the other striker should be either a poacher/AF or DLF/CF. 

I think pressing forward works quite well too, on attack, as a partner for the TM. They seem to stay pretty advanced and are a real pain for the defenders. I really like the PFa and TMs combo that I have. My counter has a PFd and AFa and pressing forward on defend, if it's the right player, cuts down the time the opposition have on the ball in defense amazingly well.

Poacher works well too as you say. I think for me the Graham Taylor video about the two types of direct passing, to the body/feet or to space, really helps with sorting out the pairing you need for your strikers. With one striker if it goes to the player then they have no one ahead of them, or on the shoulder of the defense, to pass to. They can only hold it up, or pass back - and that's not hoofball really. If the ball is constantly going into space with only one player for the defense to pick up they are going to lose it or be marked out of it more often than not.

But if you have one striker who is cut out more for the ball to body, and one that is waiting for the flick on or the ball to space, you have so many more options. I really wish I'd used targetmen more in past FM's. I barely touched them before FM19.

 

2 hours ago, z464 said:

Both situation happened to me .  

After I turned my DMs to DLPs , both wbs will pass to DLP rather than pass long forward or losing the ball at own half . 

Playmakers tend to be the creative forces, or the conductors, in a team. I'm guessing your WB's might struggle to see a good pass if you've only got one up front so go short/sideways to the DLP instead. They take creative priority/control. When you had just DMs maybe the WB's were freer to take a punt on a long pass.

[Peljam]

Just a quick update. Don't want to spam too much.

I've got to the end of the season with Portadown. Joined 16 games into the season, have played 22 league games, 20 of those with long ball, and 9 cup games.

Headlines:

• When I joined they were 10th (there are 12 in the league), when I finished we were 7th
• We won the FA Cup, and the world renowned Mid-Ulster Cup.
• In the league we won 9, lost 5, drew 6 for a total of 33 points.
• That's 1.65pts per game and would have been enough for 5th place so not a league winning PPG yet.
• In the Cups we won 6 in normal time, and needed to go to ET for 3. We didn't go to penalties at any point.
• Across the 29 games we had a points haul of the equivalent (assuming 6 wins and 3 draws for the cups) of 54 and a PPG of 1.82
• Across the 29 games we had 298 shots, and 169 of those were on target (about 10 shots, 6 on target, on average per game).
• Across the 29 games we scored 48, conceded 24.
• According to the goal/assist stats (for the last 30 as it won't let me select 29)  only 4 goals came from short passes, 1 from a mistake, 0 from square balls or medium passes. The majority came from through balls or long balls, or corners (about 2-1 for the ratio of long/through compared to corners).

 

Verdict?

Hoofball is life. I'm a complete convert to it.

My squad isn't great so I think with some slight improvements to the actual players, and bit more squad depth, I think I can up the points per game. I used the main longball tactic as outline above for most games but swapped in the direct counter version for a couple of key games against bigger sides or when I was a few goals ahead in a game I knew the other side needed to win. It didn't always work, but when it did it was amazing (a 5-0 win against Linfield, and a 1-0 final win against my bigger rivals Glenavon).

In true hoofball style the games we struggled in were those where the opposition retained position more and patiently built up or when our 1st choice TM and PF were tired/injured.

[Mindtrick_42]

@Peljam Really enjoying your posts. Keep up the good work! 

I'm gonna give the long ball tactic another go,  where I want to build a direct and strong team. Club DNA will most likely include bravery, determination, workrate and teamwork. 

Also, I want to play 442, and one of the most important players should be the targetman.

Now I just need to find a fun team to start with

Edited October 25, 2018 by Mindtrick_42

[improvox]

Keep up the good work. I'm inspired to create a long ball tactic after reading this.

My beta save is with livorno in serie B. I started with a narrow formation and it was doing OK but we weren't creating many chances. Then I tried to recreate my favourite tactic from fm18 (a 4231 with a regista) but its just not working although to be honest I probably haven't got the players for it. So I'm going to use livorno to develop a long ball tactic and then will use it when I start my first long term save. Which will be lower league either  France (US Créteil - if I can find a French lower league DB) or England. 

[Experienced Defender]

11 hours ago, Peljam said:

I think pressing forward works quite well too, on attack, as a partner for the TM

Probably yes, according to the description of PF, but I'm still playing FM18, so I haven't tested him yet. That's the only reason I did not mention PF 

11 hours ago, Peljam said:

With one striker if it goes to the player then they have no one ahead of them, or on the shoulder of the defense, to pass to. They can only hold it up, or pass back - and that's not hoofball really. If the ball is constantly going into space with only one player for the defense to pick up they are going to lose it or be marked out of it more often than not.

This is absolutely true  What I also like about hoofball is that it can be used as a tactical style with any type of mentality (defensive, balanced, offensive). And I would just add that for a successful implementation of hoofball, these basic principles are key:

- a strong and tall TM as the focal point of your attacks

- ideally a two-striker partnership, or at least 2 AMCs behind the lone TM, one of which should perform SS role

- fullbacks (or wingbacks, depending on the formation) as the primary providers of crosses for the TM

- narrow(er) width, so that the TM is being supported by as many players as possible (width is already provided by FBs/WBs)

- tempo should not be high, but either normal or even lower, in order to give enough time to midfield players to arrive in support once the long ball (or cross) is launched to the TM

- pass into space as a TI is a mistake that many FM players are making. Instead, a better choice is to use a playmaker (either in MC or AMC position) with good passing and vision to provide killer balls behind the opposition defence when an opportunity presents itself

- float/mixed and early crosses are the self-explanatory TIs I guess

- ideal hoofball formations would be flat 4-4-2 and 5-3-2 WB, but you can also use 4-3-1-2, 4-3-2-1 DM Narrow or 5-2-1-2 WB to good effect

- team shape (in FM18) or fluidity (in FM19) should not be fluid, but either (very) structured or at least flexible

- TIs such as Roam from Positions and Be More Expressive should be avoided, as well as the PI "Roam from position", because the hoofball style is not about creativity and beauty but rather simplicity and directness 

[Peljam]

Thanks @Mindtrick_42 @improvox

@Experienced Defender I think  the equivalent to a PF in 18 is the defensive forward but I'm not sure, as I've not used the defensive forward in FM18 I'd read somewhere that is more of a name change than big role change as defensive doesn't exist in 19 anymore.

38 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

. And I would just add that for a successful implementation of hoofball, these basic principles are key:

- a strong and tall TM as the focal point of your attacks

- ideally a two-striker partnership, or at least 2 AMCs behind the lone TM, one of which should perform SS role

- fullbacks (or wingbacks, depending on the formation) as the primary providers of crosses for the TM

- narrow(er) width, so that the TM is being supported by as many players as possible (width is already provided by FBs/WBs)

- tempo should not be high, but either normal or even lower, in order to give enough time to midfield players to arrive in support once the long ball (or cross) is launched to the TM

- pass into space as a TI is a mistake that many FM players are making. Instead, a better choice is to use a playmaker (either in MC or AMC position) with good passing and vision to provide killer balls behind the opposition defence when an opportunity presents itself

- float/mixed and early crosses are the self-explanatory TIs I guess

- ideal hoofball formations would be flat 4-4-2 and 5-3-2 WB, but you can also use 4-3-1-2, 4-3-2-1 DM Narrow or 5-2-1-2 WB to good effect

- team shape (in FM18) or fluidity (in FM19) should not be fluid, but either (very) structured or at least flexible

- TIs such as Roam from Positions and Be More Expressive should be avoided, as well as the PI "Roam from position", because the hoofball style is not about creativity and beauty but rather simplicity and directness 

I agree with most of this. I think sticking to the above should result in a pretty solid hoofball. I think there's some potential for variation though that might change what sort of Hoofball you end up with those. Some of the articles in the first post I found really useful for seperating in my mind the difference between the hoofball of Taylors Watford, from Wimbledon, from Big Sam, and from Pulisball. I think some changes in the key principles can lead you more towards one than the other - which is really fun

There are 3 areas where I differ a bit currently.

• My tempo is slightly higher as in FM19 (I don't know if its the same for 18 as I hadn't tried really) I'm struggling to get them to pass forward with any purpose/urgency if it is on low. I find slightly higher is giving me a good balance between taking the game to the opposition and being more selective with my passes. I think this might work better for two strikers rather than set ups with one and support from midfield as there's already some support relatively near then.
• I'm finding pass into space is working for me but I can see that if I had somone decent enough to play as a DLP I could change this. I think removing pass into space and having a playmaker might work well for higher end hoofball but for the lower leagues pass into space might be a good fudge to get things done.
• I've got Be More Expressive on for my main hoofball (but not for the direct counter version). Again it's working for me I think because it is allowing some of my players to take more speculative hoofs. To me, and I could be very wrong, Be More Expressive on a route one tactic feels like it should be renamed 'Stick it in the Mixer!' - Which is fine if you have the strikers who will work hard to get it or if you fancy your changes of soaking up the pressure from lost possession.

 

Also a key area I differ. I think hoofball is beautiful

 

4 hours ago, Mindtrick_42 said:

@Peljam Really enjoying your posts. Keep up the good work! 

I'm gonna give the long ball tactic another go,  where I want to build a direct and strong team. Club DNA will most likely include bravery, determination, workrate and teamwork. 

Also, I want to play 442, and one of the most important players should be the targetman.

Now I just need to find a fun team to start with

Those are definitely the right attributes for me. I'd take a player with those over a more technically gifted but mentally weaker player. Workrate in the strikers is key. They need a good engine if they're going to be chasing down the ball all game.

3 hours ago, improvox said:

Keep up the good work. I'm inspired to create a long ball tactic after reading this.

My beta save is with livorno in serie B. I started with a narrow formation and it was doing OK but we weren't creating many chances. Then I tried to recreate my favourite tactic from fm18 (a 4231 with a regista) but its just not working although to be honest I probably haven't got the players for it. So I'm going to use livorno to develop a long ball tactic and then will use it when I start my first long term save. Which will be lower league either  France (US Créteil - if I can find a French lower league DB) or England. 

I did the same thing. My first two teams were long slogs that I used to find out what wasn't working for me. In each case (Scarborough and Grantham) it became clear that I didn't have the players either. So run Livorno into the ground!

 

[Experienced Defender]

15 minutes ago, Peljam said:

I think  the equivalent to a PF in 18 is the defensive forward but I'm not sure, as I've not used the defensive forward in FM18 I'd read somewhere that is more of a name change than big role change as defensive doesn't exist in 19 anymore.

I guess so, and that seems quite logical. The obvious difference is that the attack duty was not available for DF, while PF can have all 3 duties. 

20 minutes ago, Peljam said:

Also a key area I differ. I think hoofball is beautiful

Actually, we agree on this one. I also think it's beautiful. But in this context the term "beautiful" was used to describe what most people regard as "beautiful football" (i.e. the way teams play under Pep, Sarri and similar managers). But I'd rather opt for the Tony Pulis Stoke's style 

[Peljam]

1 minute ago, Experienced Defender said:

Actually, we agree on this one. I also think it's beautiful. But in this context the term "beautiful" was used to describe what most people regard as "beautiful football" (i.e. the way teams play under Pep, Sarri and similar managers). But I'd rather opt for the Tony Pulis Stoke's style 

Grand. I think I'm loving playing hoofball more than I have any other tactic since about FM12.

Although it might be getting out of hand. I've just watched a mix of Rory Delap throws on youtube to help me set up my new throw in routine.

[Experienced Defender]

Rori's throw-ins were simply unrepeatable 

[z464]

16 hours ago, Peljam said:

 

 

Playmakers tend to be the creative forces, or the conductors, in a team. I'm guessing your WB's might struggle to see a good pass if you've only got one up front so go short/sideways to the DLP instead. They take creative priority/control. When you had just DMs maybe the WB's were freer to take a punt on a long pass.

Yes , once my wbs have the ball always get tackled by 2 players . 

 

 

[Peljam]

16 hours ago, z464 said:

Yes , once my wbs have the ball always get tackled by 2 players . 

 

 

Are they spending too much time on the ball? Maybe set them to dribble less often?

Or drop them back to full backs? I'd be tempted to do this. It should either give them more time and space to make the pass without being tackled...or if they are still getting closed down there should now be more space behind the other team on that wing.

[Experienced Defender]

On 25/10/2018 at 17:28, z464 said:

Yes , once my wbs have the ball always get tackled by 2 players . 

What are their respective ratings for the Off The Ball attribute? 

[z464]

10 hours ago, Peljam said:

Are they spending too much time on the ball? Maybe set them to dribble less often?

Or drop them back to full backs? I'd be tempted to do this. It should either give them more time and space to make the pass without being tackled...or if they are still getting closed down there should now be more space behind the other team on that wing.

No, they get tackled immediately once they  received the ball from the 3 center backs .

I'm playing 3 center backs with dm position that I don't want to drop them back to full backs. 

I mean I can easily change my formation to 4411 or 4132 without any issue , but just want to try a 3 center backs counter tactic  

[z464]

2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

What are their respective ratings for the Off The Ball attribute? 

I’m using Spurs , so you know my wbs are not terrible at all .  

[Sarl]

Oh, behold! The magic of hoofball!

I'm playing hoofball with Crusaders from Northern Ireland. It have worked wonders in Europe, where we've qualified for the Europa League group stages. Thank you away goals. Thank you hoofball.

The setup is somewhat the same as Peljams. Only differences as far as I can tell, is that I'm not passing into space, and I haven't asked my players to be more expressive.

In the league I've won 3 and lost 1 game so far. But most league games have been scheduled just 2 days after my European games, so I've had to field some weakened sides in the league so far. That won't change much, now that we're in the group stages, I reckon. Might have to play the reserves in Europe now, since I probably won't get many points in the group stages no matter what. But who knows what the magic of hoofball can lead to?

Edited October 26, 2018 by Sarl

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, z464 said:

I’m using Spurs , so you know my wbs are not terrible at all .  

Then I suppose it's because they are the only wide players in your formation (5-4-1WB), so you are in most cases outnumbered by the opposition on the flanks, which in turn encourages them to go more aggressively on your WBs. The first (though not the only) thing you should consider is removing the "Pass Into Space" TI because your formation is pretty defensive (one of most defensive in the game) even though you play with a high mentality (control), so your WBs are the players that are naturally attracting most of those passes into space. And given that they are usually higher up the pitch due to the combination of the high team mentality and their own position and role, the space for them to operate within is likely reduced. Of course, I am just guessing, but you are the only one who can know if this (or something else) is the reason because you are watching your team's matches and so only you can identify where the problem lies. 

[z464]

35 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Then I suppose it's because they are the only wide players in your formation (5-4-1WB), so you are in most cases outnumbered by the opposition on the flanks, which in turn encourages them to go more aggressively on your WBs. The first (though not the only) thing you should consider is removing the "Pass Into Space" TI because your formation is pretty defensive (one of most defensive in the game) even though you play with a high mentality (control), so your WBs are the players that are naturally attracting most of those passes into space. And given that they are usually higher up the pitch due to the combination of the high team mentality and their own position and role, the space for them to operate within is likely reduced. Of course, I am just guessing, but you are the only one who can know if this (or something else) is the reason because you are watching your team's matches and so only you can identify where the problem lies. 

 

Turned my dm to DLP will help a lot . 

It's my first time to use 3 center backs counter formation .

Needs more time to see how is the transaction do and what is the best role .