Gulf in home and away performance

[churros]

I don't know if it's intentional or whatever, but it's incredible.

vs Southampton at home = 6-0 win. Midfielders passing % over 90%. Near 30 attempts on goal, near 15 on target. Over 60% possession.

vs Southampton away (3 tries) = 2-0 loss, 2-1 loss, 2-0 loss. Midfielders passing % about 80%. 10-14 shots, 5'ish on target. Under 50% possession. Missed most, if not all CCCs. Amazing header from a 1.73m midfielder with 9 jumping (and **** attributes in general) to beat my "leading Premier Division" centre-backs with 16 and 17 jumping, 1.9m tall.

For the record, my team average 1.5-2 star rating above Southampton.

Of course, there's always a psychological advantage playing at home. The fans, the familiarity and the homeness of it all. But either I'm doing something extremely wrong (I use the exact same tactics as in the home games, not just this Southampton fixture) or SI have just way overdone the home/away handicap.

It feels like Home = +5 decisions, composure, creativity and all other mental attributes. Away = -5 decisions, etc etc.

The "unfamiliarity" within the team playing away is almost as though they're a completely different side that have never played together. It's ridiculous, and I'm incredulous. It's simulation gone wrong to an embarrassing point. It's been like this for the 4 seasons I've had so far.

Just on a side note, my team are generally younger and less experienced than most other teams (23 years old average) and the club was recently very low profile. Only recently did it climb from 2.5 stars rep to 4 stars. I don't know if it's due to the "unfamiliar" stature of the club that there isn't enough fans at away games supporting, or the players not being used to high expectations and stature, you tell me.

Still, I bet I'm not wrong here. I've never seen anything close to such home/away fluctuations in performance in any real football team.

PS. Oh yeah, you wouldn't want me to upload those away goals conceded. Just going to disgrace the already abysmal ME further.

PS2. All my 3 midfielders have 18-20 passing. You wouldn't believe how badly they misplace their passes in the away games.

[Jibby123]

I'm not seeing it on my saves, so can't really help with a suggestion (others might tactically....but I never change tactics), but are you sure "It's been like this for the 4 seasons I've had so far."?

Not doubting you, but what is your home and away records in the league for those 4 seasons?

[PinkSpeedos]

There definitely is a big difference and I think it was the exact same way in FM12, however leaving your tactics the same regardless of the situation hits you a lot harder in this game than it has in previous games. Southampton are going to play differently at home than they do away, so your tactics may have worked really well to counter their tactics away from home but their style of play at home obviously worked well against your tactic. You really have to change things up in this game, even things like the weather can have a detrimental affect on the way your team plays.

FM13 is all about finding out an opponents weakness and exploiting it, if your leaving your tactic the same then your left for the taking in certain circumstances.

[silten]

What body language do you players exhibit home and away? I have a fairly young team and have to go really easy on the pressure away from home or anxiety and nerves kick in as soon as the home side gets an inevitable 10 minute spell of decent possession.

Usually I swap in 2-3 more experienced players for tougher away games to keep it settled.

[Kenco]

Judging this against one team is difficult as Southampton will no doubt play different tactics against you home and away. Perhaps you need to think about doing something different for away games?

On the whole though I think there may be an issue, as too many AI teams have near-perfect home records in my league this season, something which just doesn't happen IRL.

It would be interesting if someone had the time to do some research and post some findings, comparing how many points are gained home/away for an entire division against the same division IRL. preferably an all AI controlled division, with no human intervention.

[churros]

It has little to do with tactics. I watched the home replay. Same formation, mostly same lineup.

It's basically my players passing like ****, off the ball movement's ****, etc. and their players going from **** to Barcelona-esque passing and communication, or that my defenders (with over 16 marking, tackling and positioning) go blind.

You can't doubt this is scripted/modified somewhat when their short midfielders/forwards are beating my 1.9m CBs in most aerial duels.

And that my 19 finishing striker (top scorer in the league last season) is missing EVERY "Clear cut chance" that presents to him (if they ever happen in this away fixture lol)

Not to mention the number of times my players have found the side netting or even hitting the post. It's as though the game's scripting these "near misses" just to try and feed the players a bit of credibility. I know most FM players in general would fall for it, because you're all macromanagers that spam "Continue", but I'm meticulous and micromanage. I spot the details, and sometimes go as far as to watching matches in "Full Match" (I normally view on Extended). You can't deny this when you see Bristol playing like Barca in the FA Cup. I notice this handicap thing happens a lot in cup competitions a lot. The game tries its best to drag matches all the way to penalties.

[dooro23]

It has little to do with tactics.

No.

Simple as that. Or why do you think others cope with it effectively, when you can't?

[Kenco]

Same formation doesn't mean the same tactics. Formation is just one slice of the tactical pizza.

[Jibby123]

.....I know most FM players in general would fall for it, because you're all macromanagers that spam "Continue", but I'm meticulous and micromanage. I spot the details.....

Sounds you should be the one helping us, not the other way round.

What's your league record home and away past four seasons?

[churros]

Wins on most. Regardless home or away. But the shot count and possession difference is too much. Too poor on away. I win a lot because I make plenty of tactical changes, and have very varied tactics prepared that effectively attacks difference styles of defence, at different tempos and directions.

Anyway, this "handicap", it's been getting worse the better I perform this season. Been going unbeaten until that particular Southampton fixture (20 unbeaten then) and they simply went God-mode. And they're 17th in the league with a terrible Goals Conceded record.

At this point I'm past that fixture, and merely settled with a draw. Couldn't get a win. 1 week later I meet them in the FA Cup at home. 7-0. First match. They used the same tactics. No comments. I didn't expect that big of a win, but it seems that home/away advantage works for and against the player...

Problem is, it works way too dramatically.

And about what you said that I should be the one helping instead, I normally assume there are people better equipped with experience and knowledge than me, especially since I started playing FM only with FM12. God I miss that ME lol, even though it had its faults nothing compared to FM13's.

[Kenco]

I get the impression that you reload until you win every game.

[scott MUFC]

there is a big differance, I agree.

i have had big wins at home, yet struggle away, not so bad in the champions league away from home, but in the league it is a BIG differance in player behaviour.

[churros]

Correction: On away games.

When I see how retardedly my defenders "defend" on away games, which you probably don't, I reload. The game screws me over, I unscrew that ****.

I can post countless videos if it wasn't such a tedious process (another SI piece of work with that amazing upload feature's efficiency), then again will they care? I've posted several before if you looked at my older posts, and I don't have that many so you can easily search it. I may post a few more as examples if requested.

Just the few screens in the scoreline differences, and several instances of unreal decision making by some of my smartest midfielders with 16-20 passing/creativity and good all-round mental attributes.

[eple]

My record so far in the 1st season

Home: 7-2-0 | GD: 28-8

Away: 0-6-5 | GD: 11-30

I often take the lead away, but end up conceding towards the end of the 2nd half. Last three away games I've conceded in injury-time despite trying my best to avoid it. In two of those three games I lost a two-goal lead in 2nd half.

[Sir_Liam]

My away form last season on my save was something like played 13, won 11, drew 2, with my home form not being so great, although I still won the league.

My team is very young as well, with a lot of players still being teenagers, although I was playing in the less than daunting atmosphere of the Swiss 4th division.

I tend to be more defensive away from home, and as always I make slight alterations to team/individual instructions and occasionally formation if I deem it necessary.

[hashassin]

i tend to be more defensive away, and also with my young squad had much better away record than home... i thought it might be because they're young, and pressure from the stands gets to them, but i changed my tactics home to less offensive and i lowered my expectations (teamtalks) and now Nene Park is a fortress in Blue Square North

[scott MUFC]

i got to the point of letting my assisant do the away games, or use the shot clear ball to flanks, which makes me play like stoke.

[kingpug]

Aye it's chalk and cheese now I can beat Madrid 5-0 or Juventus 9-1 but even against the worst teams in the league away you struggle but I find using counter in away matches works much better but then again I am Barcelona so it's not that hard to win a match but counter for me is the way to go.

[eple]

I made a counter attacking 4411 tactic with two deep midfielder to use in difficult away games and when leading. It's proven to be very effective and went on a run of 10 away without losing, wheras it was more than ten games without winning before that. Also seems to do well against 4231, which was causing me most trouble.

So yeah, much more difficult to play away for some reason, but it seems you can do something about it by adopting a defensive formation. I also score quite a few on the counter. Managed a 4-2 away against Spurs playing like that for 90 minutes.

[themadsheep2001]

Away record is almost identical to home record. Unbeaten at home, but lost one away, but the only two draws i've had have been at home.

[av3ry]

I seem to be better away from home. Rigid 4-4-1-1 Standard mentaility.

[macca72]

I think the problem can sometimes be the visualisation of how you perform when losing. The points above about understanding how the teams you are playing differ tactically away from home are 100% valid, but I do sympathise to some degree with the way the game presents this for you.

It does appear as though your players have all of a sudden become poor, rather than properly showing you why your approach isn't working. I caviat this with the fact that some people are very good at spotting the signs of this and adjusting accordingly, I'm juts personally not convinced it's as obvious or user friendly as it could be.

It's not "scripted" though, nor are you "programmed" not to win, that where your feedback loses credibility.

[kingpug]

Why would your approach be the problem? how can your approach at home against Bayern Munich result in a 6-0 win and your team being the best in the world and proving it differ so much in the next match against a team 17th in the league where, with the same team and formation, your team are now a pub team who can't hit a barn door, win a ball or even pass a ball, so I fail to see how my approach has anything to do with it. Plus, I beat Madrid 5-0 at home, Juventus 9-1 at home and PSG 6-0 at home yet time and time again away from home I'm no longer watching Barcelona, I'm watching Barcelona B.

There is only so much you can do and with this years ME you have even less control over your players so I honest to god fail to see how a different approach will make your team perform as good away as they do at home, tactics do help and you may still win but the performance is like chalk and cheese.

[Kenco]

Your approach might be fine against a team that doesn't attack you, but away from home those teams will play more attacking and sometimes you have to make allowances for that by taking a different approach.

[scott MUFC]

a differant approach is a bit hard to find when you got defenders not tackling or marking properly away from home, with no other way of making them do it.

[tomtuck01]

a differant approach is a bit hard to find when you got defenders not tackling or marking properly away from home, with no other way of making them do it.

That's just sensationalist claptrap i'm afraid.

Just about every team in the world approaches games differently depending on whether they are home or away. It's up to you as the manager to react to this and counter what the opposition are doing. If not, then you'll probably get the defeat you deserve.

[scott MUFC]

how is it? if myplayers are not tackling, they are not tackling.

they do it fine at home, the effect is far too big, adapting or otherwise, you cant do anything if you cant get the ball while the AI just passes and runs past world class defenders.

[Chris21]

Currently experiencing this problem in my Man Utd game. P9 W8 D1 L0 (home) and P9 W3 D1 L5 (away) 4 of those defeats were at Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City though so tough games but my players do some ridiculous things away from home. Its like the passing especially becomes less crisp and we constantly give it away so easily. Admittedly I'm quite basic with my tactics...its normally balanced attacking at home and balanced counter away so I could probably do more myself tactically but it does seem to me the players just act like complete divs away from home Hope I can figure out how to do sort it though.

[tomtuck01]

how is it? if myplayers are not tackling, they are not tackling.

they do it fine at home, the effect is far too big, adapting or otherwise, you cant do anything if you cant get the ball while the AI just passes and runs past world class defenders.

Must be playing a completely different game to me then, as I've ever experienced the nonsense you're coming out with.

[Zoetermeer]

I have this problem too, and had it in FM12 as well. It can be mitigated somewhat with tactical adjustment, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist and I don't think it's unreasonable to claim that poor teams can hit above their averages a little too often.

Many people seem to have noticed this. I don't see how it follows that if the opposition plays a "different" or "more attacking" tactic that they should consistently outperform you. Often "more attacking" can be bad for you against stronger opposition, home or away.

If it's true that, all other things being equal (attributes, morale, etc.), teams play the same regardless of venue, then why does the AI manager choose a different tactic depending on whether he's home or away?

[scott MUFC]

the opposition play the same tactic home and away, yet you thrash them at home and struggle away because

players run ball out of play.

players don't tackle

players pass ball out of play.

no ammount of adapting can make players do what they do at home.

i'm just letting assistant do away games because i can't be bothered watching random shoddy bits of play I shouldn't be doing.

and the AI seem to lose away a lot as well, Barca lost 2/3 away group games, Liverpool lost to Milwall away in 1 league game.

[Cougar2010]

the opposition play the same tactic home and away, yet you thrash them at home and struggle away because

This here is where you are initially going wrong.

The opposition DO NOT play the same tactic home and away. A formation is not a tactic, a tactic is everything from formation, player roles, orders, opposition instructions etc etc and this changes not just home and away but several times during a single match depending on various other factors.

[themadsheep2001]

This here is where you are initially going wrong.

The opposition DO NOT play the same tactic home and away. A formation is not a tactic, a tactic is everything from formation, player roles, orders, opposition instructions etc etc and this changes not just home and away but several times during a single match depending on various other factors.

This, 100 times this. They often dont even play the same tactic within a 90 minute match.

[Chris21]

Currently experiencing this problem in my Man Utd game. P9 W8 D1 L0 (home) and P9 W3 D1 L5 (away) 4 of those defeats were at Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City though so tough games but my players do some ridiculous things away from home. Its like the passing especially becomes less crisp and we constantly give it away so easily. Admittedly I'm quite basic with my tactics...its normally balanced attacking at home and balanced counter away so I could probably do more myself tactically but it does seem to me the players just act like complete divs away from home Hope I can figure out how to do sort it though.

Few tweaks has seen me winning 6-1, drawing 0-0 and winning 6-2 all away from home since I posted this. Hope that continues!

[scott MUFC]

one tweak gets at least a draw on mine, clear ball to flanks shout.

[kingpug]

That's just sensationalist claptrap i'm afraid.

Just about every team in the world approaches games differently depending on whether they are home or away. It's up to you as the manager to react to this and counter what the opposition are doing. If not, then you'll probably get the defeat you deserve.

So you're saying it's the managers fault your team of world class passers can go longer pass? it's my fault my team can no longer win balls, tackle or do anything a league two side can do? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

Biggest problem this game has is the ball is infected with aids or something and players don't want to touch it and this is more evident away.

[tomtuck01]

one tweak gets at least a draw on mine, clear ball to flanks shout.

So you have done something I said initially; made a tactical change to adjust to the opposition, and since achieved something other than a defeat.

Funny how that works.

[tomtuck01]

So you're saying it's the managers fault your team of world class passers can go longer pass? it's my fault my team can no longer win balls, tackle or do anything a league two side can do? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

Biggest problem this game has is the ball is infected with aids or something and players don't want to touch it and this is more evident away.

The problem you're having is that you're making stuff up, because what you describe in your first paragraph is simply faulse.

[scott MUFC]

yea funny how I have to change from silky passing creative football, to playing like Stoke to get even a 0-0 at west brom >.>.

and no it isn't made up. I get the same effect, hence why I have to change to Sam allardyce mode in away games. I play short passing game playing from the back, with high pressing and tackling.

at home player intercepts or makes a tackle, they instantly run towards the oppositon goal, away from home they get tackled or make a sloppy pass. players rarely dribble into space away from home.

I can change whatever, but i expect my players to play in the exact same way, and i change it if it doesnt work, I cant iron out problems if it is sloppy play from players.

[Kenco]

It would be interesting to see an experiment on this. Using the editor you could set up a league with just 2 teams, playing a number of games against each other, say about 30, home and away. Give them both the same capacity stadium, fanbase, etc, a squad of identical players, set them both up with human managers and play the same tactics against each other every game and make no changes during games.

Then see what the home and away records are at the end of the season.

[Zoetermeer]

Great idea. I'll try this if I have the time.

[tomtuck01]

Presonally I think my away form is pretty decent this term;

Not too much difference between home and away form here.

[AcidBurn]

I noticed a huge difference a couple of seasons a go but over the two seasons following this one I lost 7 times away from home in the league.

[scott MUFC]

and more draws as well. results don't realy matter, its how hard it is to get them that is the problem.

[AcidBurn]

It's the difference in goals scored and goals conceded I was most surprised at. I personally don't think there's too much wrong with it as the next few seasons and the one before this one showed.

[tomtuck01]

and more draws as well. results don't realy matter, its how hard it is to get them that is the problem.

I wouldn't say I've found it harder. I've had one draw more than at home, and won three games 1-0 away from home compared to none at home. Two of which were at Feyenoord and AZ Alkmaar, and I even went to Twente and thumped them 3-0.

[scott MUFC]

I find it harder, seems like you work twice as hard sometimes. but just won 2 away games in a row, one 4-0 with reserves and a 1-0 with 10 men against Man city. but if i'm Thrashing a team at home by 4-5 goals i shouldn't be struggling to win.

[kingpug]

The problem you're having is that you're making stuff up, because what you describe in your first paragraph is simply faulse.

Why would I have to make stuff up on a forum full of people I don't know? are you one of these FM die hard fanboys that believe the game is perfect and anything wrong with it is the user not the game or something? how can it be false then, how can you beat Juventus 9-1 at home playing world class football then struggle against teams 19th in the league playing pub team football, or wait, I just made that up as well, right? I guess you must be a super manager if your players play the same way both home and away but based on this thread alone not everyone agrees with you but hey, we are all telling lies here except you, bellend.

Last season:

home 19, won 18 drew 1 scoring 70 goals conceding 4.

away 19, won 14 drew 4 lost 1 scoring 39 goals conceding 11

First season:

home 19, won 18 drew 1 lost 0 scored 62 conceded 7

away 19, won 14 drew 5 lost 0 scored 56 conceded 19

Oh and it's every team, Real Madrid went 16-2-1 at home in first season yet 9-6-4 away and in my last season they went 17-2-0 at home and 12-4-3 away conceding 22 away yet 5 at home.

So in my opinion the difference between home and away IS big even for the best in the world and this was the top two in one league. It's not even about losing away matches to good sides because it's always against teams in the bottom half, it's pretty amazing to think you can destroy the best clubs in the world at home yet go away to the team bottom of La Liga and you struggle like hell, but sure it's just me being crap I guess definitely not the players, after all it's 100% down to me what they do and how they perform on this game so if they can't pass that's me being rubbish.

[tomtuck01]

but if i'm Thrashing a team at home by 4-5 goals i shouldn't be struggling to win.

Deary, deary me. Reckon you should have a look at a couple of recent results from the team you support;

January 26th 2013, Manchester United 4-0 Fulham - United cruise into the 5th round of the FA Cup with Fulham offering little resistance.

Just one week later

February 2nd 2013, Fulham 0-1 Manchester United - Fulham prove to be much tougher opponents at home, with United snatching victory with little over ten minutes to go.

You see scott, it's harder away from home in real life too.

[kingpug]

First of all that is two results not exactly a seasons worth, second of all Fulham are shocking away and last but certainly not least, one was the FA cup the other was a league match so I fail to see the comparison.

But wait, if Barcelona lost to a team in the 3rd tier of Spanish football in theory that means it should happen and it's realistic because it happened once.

Also, didn't UTD hit the bar about 4 times and pretty much destroy Fulham even away? and Fulham are actually decent at home yet on FM you play teams with 2 home wins all season that suddenly perform against the best in the division.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/tables/_/league/eng.1/barclays-premier-league?cc=5739#

I don't see much of a gulf here.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/tables/live/_/league/ger.1/german-bundesliga?cc=5739

Nor here.

I still say there is a gulf and that home is too easy yet away is too hard and you need to work 3 or 4 times as hard away to win and sure away matches are better but that only counts for some of it, this happening every away match is different.