Senegal's Arsenal Thread 2012/2013 : featuring positive negativity

[ArsenalFan7]

Gervinho once again a joke, keeping up with his classic move where he dribbles the ball gets caught up with it and then loses it with ease, also dribbled numerous times instead of passing and lost us possession. Don't care if he scored, little impact. Once again escapes being subbed and Podolski goes off again somehow.

Rubbish goals to concede. So simple for Chelsea.

Amazed by some passes today, some of our team struggling to play it simple. Giroud miss at the end summed it all up. Chelsea were solid, we were fragile and poor.

[Kawee]

If I didn't know the scoreline, and just hear that, "Chelsea were solid, we were fragile and poor," I would have thought they choked us to death and won 3-0.

Chelsea were not solid. They conceded a goal where our winger was free to cross, and somehow our winger-cum-striker found 2-3 yards in a crowded box. If they were so solid, how did we carve them open for Giroud to miss a good chance. How did Cazorla get all those half chances?

If we were missing passes all over the place, how did we dominate possession? Chelsea was also missing simple passes all over the place as well, that's why.

Look, we were poor today. Poorest we've been all season. Chelsea was not much better though. They were average at best, but that was enough to beat us on a bad day.

Chelsea is none of our concern though. So, we need to get our focus back, and work out why we didn't do well today, and move on and forward.

[SJ234]

Of course I can have that as a mistake. **** poor management to change systems 15 mins into a match. If you're going to start Ramsey out wide, at least have the balls to carry that through.

And Gilberto is/was a much more important player than Vermaelen. Vermaelen shouldn't even be starting for us.

He would be a fool if he didn't correct his mistake ffs .

The second statement is hyperbole. TV is still an important player for us and was a key part of our solid defence at the beginning of the season.

Jesus christ AF7 that is mostly hyperbole.

[Sy13]

Great decision by Wenger to go into the season with 2 unproven strikers - the best one got subbed and the other is proving to be hopeless.

Looks like Jan Vertonghen is proving to be a great buy as well. If only someone had championed his name in the summer....

[ajw10]

Well it's not hyperbole as ive been consistent with my opinions on Vermaelen.

[SJ234]

Well it's not hyperbole as ive been consistent with my opinions on Vermaelen.

It is hyperbole to say Gilberto at the point he wasn't made captain is much more important to us than TV is now.

[Candre168]

Hey guys, I was out today, could anyone give me a brief summary of the game?

Thank you very much.

[Sy13]

Hey guys, I was out today, could anyone give me a brief summary of the game?

Thank you very much.

We lost because we still can't defend set pieces.

End.

[Candre168]

The usual then. Looks like we were well on top and basically shoot ourselves in the foot

[Sy13]

The usual then. Looks like we were well on top and basically shoot ourselves in the foot

Not really.

Passion, hard work, desire, concentration - just some of the things we didn't have today.

[Carmi88]

we were even dominated in possession in the first half =/

[Suggy33]

I remember seeing that we had 65% possession at some point during the second half (I think not long after it went to 2-1).

[ReggaeBwoy]

Our game plan was better tbh. Main thing I think was we done a good job on Cazorla and were more coherent with the ball. BTW Jenkinson must of done of the silkiest dives in football, the cheeky git

[EdL]

Not really sure how Vermaelen is getting blamed by aj when Koscielny had a shocker? The massive mistake was not having Per instead of Koscielny

[football_master_94]

I remember seeing that we had 65% possession at some point during the second half (I think not long after it went to 2-1).

That was 5 minutes into the 2nd half, that stat.

[Sy13]

Not really sure how Vermaelen is getting blamed by aj when Koscielny had a shocker? The massive mistake was not having Per instead of Koscielny

Are you seriously going with that?

Hazard, Oscar, and Mata would have torn PerMer a new one.

[EdL]

Yes I am, and no I completely disagree

[SJ234]

Our game plan was better tbh. Main thing I think was we done a good job on Cazorla and were more coherent with the ball. BTW Jenkinson must of done of the silkiest dives in football, the cheeky git

Meh it was Oscar on Arteta which was the best move. You didn't create much but defensively were very strong and we conceded two silly goals

[chris79]

We lost because we still can't defend set pieces.

End.

Directly yes, but it was because Chelsea dominated for most of the game, especially in the second half and we were not good enough in pressing and generally working together in defence. Yes, both goals were probably avoidable, but they came from FKs that were result of really panic tackles because the midfield and defence were outplayed or made silly loses which forced the defender to make a foul.

Also, I thought especially in the first half especially Podloski and Ox to some extent were not helping their fullbacks as they used to do. Gibbs was often left 1vs2.

I also believe Diaby's injury had some impact, ironically Ramsey played a lot better when "out of position" than in the centre.

[Dale Gribble]

Our game plan was better tbh. Main thing I think was we done a good job on Cazorla and were more coherent with the ball. BTW Jenkinson must of done of the silkiest dives in football, the cheeky git

He was just showing David Luiz how it's done

[SJ234]

Directly yes, but it was because Chelsea dominated for most of the game, especially in the second half and we were not good enough in pressing and generally working together in defence. Yes, both goals were probably avoidable, but they came from FKs that were result of really panic tackles because the midfield and defence were outplayed or made silly loses which forced the defender to make a foul.

Also, I thought especially in the first half especially Podloski and Ox to some extent were not helping their fullbacks as they used to do. Gibbs was often left 1vs2.

I also believe Diaby's injury had some impact, ironically Ramsey played a lot better when "out of position" than in the centre.

It was from when Theo was put on and we had 3 strikers that the second half when Chelsea became safer rather than dominated. Never felt they dominated tbh.

[Henry_14]

Great decision by Wenger to go into the season with 2 unproven strikers - the best one got subbed and the other is proving to be hopeless.

Looks like Jan Vertonghen is proving to be a great buy as well. If only someone had championed his name in the summer....

Podolski hardly unproven is he

[chris79]

It was from when Theo was put on and we had 3 strikers that the second half when Chelsea became safer rather than dominated. Never felt they dominated tbh.

I felt it was because they didn't really have a plan to go all out attacking. They had the result they wanted and were happy to just disrupt Arsenal and not allow our players to find the rhythm. We couldn't really create any longer spells of pressure on them, like we did in the last minutes of the first half.

Maybe you're right that it got worse after Walcott came on, but I don't recall Arsenal this season giving the ball away so often when starting a move out of defence or just giving it away in midfield (wasn't that Arteta's loss that led to the FK for the second goal?).

[SJ234]

I felt it was because they didn't really have a plan to go all out attacking. They had the result they wanted and were happy to just disrupt Arsenal and not allow our players to find the rhythm. We couldn't really create any longer spells of pressure on them, like we did in the last minutes of the first half.

Maybe you're right that it got worse after Walcott came on, but I don't recall Arsenal this season giving the ball away so often when starting a move out of defence or just giving it away in midfield (wasn't that Arteta's loss that led to the FK for the second goal?).

I think their defensive display was dominant, they were excellent at disrupting our play; however this debate is over semantics tbh.

I saw that period was when we had 3 strikers and none of them dropped off and got involved in the midfield in fact Cazorla was too high up the pitch after they came on. Theo and Gervinho should have been tracking back more anyway and if they did that we would have been able to have better transitions. Podolski would have stayed involved and that for me is why Gervinho should have come off.

[Suggy33]

I'm not fussed about Gervinho while he's on good goalscoring form like he is. He want tracking back cause he was our striker for the best part of the game, and even then I remember him storming back to catch David Luiz in the first half.

Not quite clinical enough but still scoring alot.

[Chr1s Lawson]

I mentioned in the match thread that matas freekick was ten yards ahead of where the actual foul took place! Poor refereeing

[SJ234]

I'm not fussed about Gervinho while he's on good goalscoring form like he is. He want tracking back cause he was our striker for the best part of the game, and even then I remember him storming back to catch David Luiz in the first half.

Not quite clinical enough but still scoring alot.

I was talking about when he was the winger on the left and tbh neither he nor Theo or even Cazorla were getting involved enough at that point

[chris79]

Well, I think most of us watching the game felt that since we were introducing a striker it would have been better to leave Podolski on, as he in theory does more when we don't have the ball. I also felt he'd be more dangerous after a real striker was on the pitch.

[chris79]

Oh, isn't it a time for the usual calls for Wenger's head? Teams above us in the table are Spurs, Everton and WBA who have a game in hand. I thought less was enough in the past to start the flames

[Sy13]

Oh, isn't it a time for the usual calls for Wenger's head? Teams above us in the table are Spurs, Everton and WBA who have a game in hand. I thought less was enough in the past to start the flames

I have wanted him out for 2 years and nothing this season so far has changed my mind. But I've said as much so many times now, it's pointless doing it again unless things go really sour like they normally do.

[Robert the Spud]

Looks like Jan Vertonghen is proving to be a great buy as well. If only someone had championed his name in the summer....

He's looking absolute quality. Cannot believe a bigger club didn't come for him esp. at £8m. Arsenal didn't need him, but someone like Utd, Chelsea or City, Milan etc. He's really going to be one of the top EPL defenders in 1-2 seasons. Can play as a box to box midfielder too.

[Kawee]

Of Spurs summer deals, I'd prefer Dembele the most.

Jan got very lucky when he fouled Nani in the box. That could have easily cost Spurs the game.

[PaulHartman71]

And after the we had from City, we're now back to our pessimistic mood

Tbf based on current form/team etc Chelsea are CLEAR favorites for a league win.

[el sid]

Tbf based on current form/team etc Chelsea are CLEAR favorites for a league win.

Jinxing it already?

[PaulHartman71]

Hopefully If we don't win the league (which let's be honest, not very likely), I'd like City to win simply because I don't know any City fans and aside from Nasri generally like their squad. I'd rather see you Chelsea boys win it over United though, United just have so many irritating fans (that's not even talking about fans on the SI boards!)

[ajw10]

Not really sure how Vermaelen is getting blamed by aj when Koscielny had a shocker? The massive mistake was not having Per instead of Koscielny

Well, Vermaelen had a shocker too? And the big difference is that Koscielny's mistakes were out of character, Vermaelen's were not. His constant need to win the ball cost us yesterday, the guy is just an idiot.

[SJ234]

People should cheer up. We have had a tough few fixtures to begin the season with stoke away which is horrible for everyone particularly us, two title challengers and a Liverpool team fresh off a great performance against city. We have generally played well. Also the only team playing consistently well is chelsea but they have had possibly the easiest start. There is enough about this team for us to still be quite content as we certainly weren't opened up by Chelsea and we created more it was just silly goals which let us down, second week running though. The squad has depth and wilshere isn't far away

[Sy13]

Podolski hardly unproven is he

Er, yes. He did absolutely nothing at Bayern which is why he went back to Koln. He's started well but he could have been another Giroud and for Wenger to start the season with only those 2 strikers is criminally negligent.

[Henry_14]

Er, yes. He did absolutely nothing at Bayern which is why he went back to Koln. He's started well but he could have been another Giroud and for Wenger to start the season with only those 2 strikers is criminally negligent.

with 104 caps and 44 goals for Germany - id say he's an established and proven striker.

[Sy13]

with 104 caps and 44 goals for Germany - id say he's an established and proven striker.

So was Shevchenko. Case closed.

[Kain]

"Don't buy players have played and scored loads for their country. Shevchenko wasn't a massive success, therefore they will all fail. But don't buy young up-and-coming players either, we need players who can score goals now! Dammit Wenger, why aren't you buying any players?"

[Sy13]

"Don't buy players have played and scored loads for their country. Shevchenko wasn't a massive success, therefore they will all fail. But don't buy young up-and-coming players either, we need players who can score goals now! Dammit Wenger, why aren't you buying any players?"

You've completely missed the point. I clearly said starting a new season with only 2 strikers - both of which had no experience at this level - was negligent at best. What part are you struggling with?

[EdL]

Well Shevchenko came when he was past his prime, Podolski is what 27...

[Kawee]

You've completely missed the point. I clearly said starting a new season with only 2 strikers - both of which had no experience at this level - was negligent at best. What part are you struggling with?

I agree that we should have picked up another striker, but you're being over-critical.

You want someone who's experienced, so we a youngster isn't acceptable.

We got ourselves a 100+ caps German international, and you claim he's unproven. Fact is, every buy is risky. Getting someone who's proven in the league isn't sure fire success either. Liverpool bought Henderson, Downing, Adam, and Enrique, and none of those have been great success. Darren Bent has not been a success for everyone he's played for. There are plenty of examples of players who proved themselves in the EPL failing when they moved.

Given Wenger's track record for upper-mid-range buys (From the days of Henry and Pires, to Kos, Sagna, Mertesacker) Podolski was a good bet. For a new winger, he hasn't done badly at all.

[Sy13]

I agree that we should have picked up another striker, but you're being over-critical.

You want someone who's experienced, so we a youngster isn't acceptable.

We got ourselves a 100+ caps German international, and you claim he's unproven. Fact is, every buy is risky. Getting someone who's proven in the league isn't sure fire success either. Liverpool bought Henderson, Downing, Adam, and Enrique, and none of those have been great success. Darren Bent has not been a success for everyone he's played for. There are plenty of examples of players who proved themselves in the EPL failing when they moved.

Given Wenger's track record for upper-mid-range buys (From the days of Henry and Pires, to Kos, Sagna, Mertesacker) Podolski was a good bet. For a new winger, he hasn't done badly at all.

Ok 2 things... Bent did well at Sunderland and then Villa before his injury. Also, for Pod to be used as a winger leaves us with one orthodox striker in Giroud - how's that working out so far??

[afced7]

Ok 2 things... Bent did well at Sunderland and then Villa before his injury.

And at Spurs...

[Sy13]

And at Spurs...

Look at his goals to games ratio there. He did fine.

[Retro]

So lets get this right. You criticise Wenger for signing two unproven strikers. And when it's pointed out that one of them most definitely cannot be classed as unproven, you give an example of a proven striker who was a failure.

So you want us to sign proven strikers, but on the other hand you don't.

[Retro]

You've completely missed the point. I clearly said starting a new season with only 2 strikers - both of which had no experience at this level - was negligent at best. What part are you struggling with?

Quite easy to miss the point when you're contradicting yourself.

Is podolski proven or not? I think proving yourself at international level would say he is. If you then mention Schevchenko, you're suggesting that buying proven strikers is not a great idea because they can fail. I think this is a great insight into the level of your thinking.

[Sy13]

Dear lord you lot are such hard work.

Pod, Giroud, Shevchenko, Aguero, Cisse, any other foreign striker coming into the EPL are not experienced at this level. Some adapt immediately (e.g. Aguero, Pod) and others may never (Shevchenko, Giroud maybe). It is a gamble in itself.

Wenger started the season with only 2 strikers, both brand new to the EPL. One has worked, one is hopeless so far. That is negligent, end of.

Solution? Buy strikers that ARE proven at this level. Ba, Defoe, Berbatov, Dempsey, Bent. Even if they are back up or rotated, at least there is guaranteed firepower there for situations like these.

Got it now?