5 reasons why the 8.0.2 update should be out now.

stumostro · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kriss:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:

IF the patch is ready and SI have held it up for the transfer updates then imo thats an error of judgement, and poor reading of the situation FM is in for many.

However I feel that this is not the case, as I just dont think SI would withold something that would transform the game, and stop a whole lot of complaining on these boards.

IMO the real reason we havent got it is probably a bit of both- SI know that it will take X amount of time to get the transfer update ready, and are merely using this cushion to squeeze a little more dev and testing time into the patch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All those ill informed and self righteous posts and finally someone gets it dead right </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you actually know this or are you one of the 'ill informed and self righteous' posters? Although George Graham prob is correct.

glamdring · February 7, 2008

What's the big deal with transfer updates anyway. The game begins in 2007. Why on earth would I want player transfers from Jan 08 applied to a game that begins 6 months earlier. It's bad enough that we get summer transfers that happened after the game start date included!

Hawshiels · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by valencia:

with all due respect mate, however complicated things are to code etc (and im sure they are), the customer has the right to expect what is advertised. the spanish registration bug in particular is a very serious and quite widespread issue. the game has been out 4 months now, and for the many among us who religiously play the spanish league, the game is unplayable. it is not as advertised.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

valencia: If you are having trouble as a result of the Spanish registration bug, you should try the workaround (it's just a really simple couple of steps to stop it happening). This way, you'll be able to enjoy the Spanish league as I do. Try it - it does work. I've now played around 6 or 7 games (my current one being in season 2014/15) and I don't get this problem now.

Mitja · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:

What's the big deal with transfer updates anyway. The game begins in 2007. Why on earth would I want player transfers from Jan 08 applied to a game that begins 6 months earlier. It's bad enough that we get summer transfers that happened after the game start date included! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes exactlly. it's just time wasting. I got a feeling we'll have to wait for quite some time...

Ter · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">A while ago SI used to release incremental patches which did not go down well as a whole as they tended to introduce bugs that weren't caught in testing (or were caught but weren't considered enough to delay that patch). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not as easy to do that these days with multiple versions that need done (at least eight I think) because of Worldwide Soccer Manager, Futbol Manager and digital downloads. I think there might actually be more than that as well.

All this adds on to the production and testing time.

oldsoldier reincarnated · February 7, 2008

7.0.2 for FM2007 came out on 21st Feb 07. I would not expect anything before that date.

DaveRH · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter:

It's not as easy to do that these days with multiple versions that need done (at least eight I think) because of Worldwide Soccer Manager, Futbol Manager and digital downloads. I think there might actually be more than that as well.

All this adds on to the production and testing time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And there's another side of things that I hadn't even thought of considering!

Surely there aren't substantial differences between the games though Ter. I would assume that the match engines are identical and the differences are mainly language orientated.

gunnerfan · February 7, 2008

I disagree that the Spanish Registration issue is the only bug that makes the game unplayable. The XML parsing error literally eliminates your saved game. I've had it twice.

gunnerfan · February 7, 2008

Also agree with chopper99 - past mass tantrums have been bad, and I agree that CM4 was probably the worst. And it seems that every year, someone is complaining (stridently) about something.

I believe it was Murphy's Fourth Law - "If you try to please everybody, somebody won't like it."

Kriss · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stumostro:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kriss:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:

IF the patch is ready and SI have held it up for the transfer updates then imo thats an error of judgement, and poor reading of the situation FM is in for many.

However I feel that this is not the case, as I just dont think SI would withold something that would transform the game, and stop a whole lot of complaining on these boards.

IMO the real reason we havent got it is probably a bit of both- SI know that it will take X amount of time to get the transfer update ready, and are merely using this cushion to squeeze a little more dev and testing time into the patch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All those ill informed and self righteous posts and finally someone gets it dead right </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you actually know this or are you one of the 'ill informed and self righteous' posters? Although George Graham prob is correct. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I know this, I also think it makes sense.

If a patch is planned it makes sense to incorporate the data update, and you can never have too much time to test.

Ter · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And there's another side of things that I hadn't even thought of considering!

Surely there aren't substantial differences between the games though Ter. I would assume that the match engines are identical and the differences are mainly language orientated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really too many differences really. Like you said, there are language differences and some graphical differences (like different logos depending on the game) but each one will be built from it's own tree and have it's own specific executable. A lot of it is automated now but things like Mac builds still take a very long time.

Then we have to make sure that they all work

furney89 · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oldsoldier reincarnated:

7.0.2 for FM2007 came out on 21st Feb 07. I would not expect anything before that date. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

however Fm2006 febuary release was valentines day so...

Loversleaper · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">3. they have numerous websites with thousands of threads containing thoughts, suggestions & improvements. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So... how long does it take you to read thousands (+numerous) threads?

DaveRH · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter:

Not really too many differences really. Like you said, there are language differences and some graphical differences (like different logos depending on the game) but each one will be built from it's own tree and have it's own specific executable. A lot of it is automated now but things like Mac builds still take a very long time.

Then we have to make sure that they all work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bring me back onto the external testing team Ter - I actually have the time to playtest nowadays

I appreciate that you can't go into massive detail, but what part of the testing process is the most labourious for you guys (and do you have to get patched signed off by Sega now)?

James.Clench · February 7, 2008

You have to ask yourself "what is the worst case scenario?"

S.I could release the 8.0.2 patch on February the 1st but it would probably be a worse patch than one released on, or around, February the 24th.

I would much rather wait an extra couple of weeks for a better patch

p.s. Furney89 it's disease not disese

Pickles · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">HonkyDick

Amateur </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How the hell did you get away with that username?

Kill Rock Stars · February 7, 2008

the thing is, it's true that the patch shouldn't be released until it's definitely ready, but at the same time it's a bit unacceptable that si have gotten into a pattern of releasing the game then not producing a final patch until there's only two or three months left in the season

plus there's not exactly been a ton of information on it released by si. the two standard questions are "when will it be out?" and "what will it fix?" and the replies are invariably "when it's ready" and "wait and see". it's hardly surprising that a lot of people aren't too happy about such vagueness, particularly when there are several bugs and flaws that have been in the game now for several years

Mitja · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James.Clench:

You have to ask yourself "what is the worst case scenario?"

S.I could release the 8.0.2 patch on February the 1st but it would probably be a worse patch than one released on, or around, February the 24th.

I would much rather wait an extra couple of weeks for a better patch

p.s. Furney89 it's disease not disese </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

on the opposite, if you presume that patch is testing at the moment, longer it's not out and ready, maybe it means things don't go so well, afterall

brandon · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HonkyDick:

It's disgusting really, they are treating their loyal customers with contempt. They said the other things(FM live and console crap) weren't going to hamper the PC version because they are separate teams. Mark Vaughn apparently hasn't touched the PC version and is doing FM live, so they have either left a big hole in the PC development or have tried to replace him with inexperienced newbs. Either way FM live has had an impact on the PC version. Did anyone else move over to the separate team? or are we supposed to believe he was the only one?

We have have whinged and complained for months about several issues in the game and there is no denying they are there because "the bug has been logged and it's a high priority" ......I'd hate to see what they do with low priority. In the meantime we see announcements about FM live and xbox and how great they are, surely they can't have made an xbox version without the bugs of the PC or are the xbox crew that much superior to the PC crew?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> You make think it's an easy job to do a full research exercise across several continents incorporating dozens of countries, thousands of players, error-check that, collate it, test it, make sure it's balanced etc. All with a predominantly volunteer team that have their own jobs and lives.

It's not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Talk about nonsense

What the hell has all of that got to do with transfer updates? With a transfer update they don't need to do a 'full research exercise across several continents', all they have to do is move the transfered players to the appropriate clubs, they don't need to 'error-check that, collate it, test it, make sure it's balanced etc', they can re-research in the off season if they need to. They may do all of that for the bugs but not transfers. If they do it for transfers it would be scary, because that would mean 1 simple transfer could have a dramatic 'buggy' impact on the game. Players moving to different clubs shouldn't trigger any bugs that weren't already there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i heartily agree. this 'new' version of FM is a total cop out & has done little (if anything) to improve on a rapidly ageing format. as much as i love playing FM, i cant help but feel cheated at whats amounted to a 2005 update with a dodgy white background. it seems to me si has been far too busy developing their 'revolutionary' idea of Live & concentrating on their unuser friendly console versions of the game & the pc version- their bread & butter, has become an after thought. its ignored tactics, team talks & the 'blobs' match engine completely. all remain unchanged & as for the improved media interaction, what purpose does it serve anyway? clicking "no comment" is probably the best response anyway. i could go on about utterly pointless things in the game but i wont. my point is that after over 20 years of producing this number 1 selling computer game with its virtualy unchanged format & its large, probably well paid staff team, youd expect an on time game (christmas release anyone?), with some inventive & clever additions. not to mention transfer updates & patches! im all for "if it aint broke dont fix it" but i think after all these years of loyality we deserve better.

David Hirst · February 7, 2008

I don't want to get drawn in to a big debate, so I just have one question that I thought I'd put here instead of making a new thread. My main reason for not playing the game proper so far, and holding out for the new patch, is because I've heard numerous rumblings about the problem with Training and youth development. This is always a big part of any game I play, and as such I want that to be figured out before I start playing. I'd like to know if these issues will be solved with the new patch, or whether it's just a case of people whinging over nothing. If anyone could shed some light it would certianly be appreciated.

leftback in the changing room · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hawshiels:

valencia: If you are having trouble as a result of the Spanish registration bug, you should try the workaround (it's just a really simple couple of steps to stop it happening). This way, you'll be able to enjoy the Spanish league as I do. Try it - it does work. I've now played around 6 or 7 games (my current one being in season 2014/15) and I don't get this problem now.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hawshiels - any chance you could find and post a link to the 'workaround'? I tried looking for it and gave up after many pages of fruitless clicking. And yes I did try the 'Find' Function - but I'd discover the final resting place of Shergar before I found anything useful with the 'find' function.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Chopper99 wrote:

I didn't like the latest Pro Evo for many reasons, none of which could be described as 'bugs'. So what did I do? Well I certainly didn't demand my money back and start crying on that the game wasn't as good as Pro Evo 4. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ironically I gave up on the PES series after Pro Evo 4. Well, when I say "gave up" I mean "spent three minutes screaming a string of expletives before throwing a controller at the TV". It had been a hard day and I couldn't face one of my players ambling slowly towards the ball only for an AI defender to steal in before me. I mean that bug had been in the game since the PS1 and Konami's response was to introduce a "press all 4 shoulder buttons to cancel the path finding AI and control the player directly". I'd be interested to know if they ever fixed it in future versions but I sure as hell wasn't going to pay to find out.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Kill Rock Stars wrote:

plus there's not exactly been a ton of information on it released by si. the two standard questions are "when will it be out?" and "what will it fix?" and the replies are invariably "when it's ready" and "wait and see". it's hardly surprising that a lot of people aren't too happy about such vagueness, particularly when there are several bugs and flaws that have been in the game now for several years </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing is those questions are usually asked by people who have ignored previous responses.

It's not beyond expectation that the patch will be released in mid-to-late February. After all it's been that way for the last two versions. And enough has been said on here about WHY it is unsuitable to commit to a deadline. Why risk finding a game breaker the day before 'release date' and generating even more angry responses on here when you have to delay the patch for another cycle of rebuild and testing? Or, even worse, releasing the patch for the GD audience to discover said bug? As for "what will it fix" - well if SI released an ongoing roll-call about what bugs had been fixed prior to releasing a patch then they would be unique in the industry. I've worked in the industry as a tester myself and I never saw the amount of feedback to the customers from my previous employer.

And as for bugs I present (in my mind) the ultimate example - Creative Assembley's Shogun: Total War. CA are the epitome of the 'done when it's done' developer (that actually releases games - I'm looking at you, Duke Nukem Forever) with apparently a respected reputation for customer relations. And yet back in 2001/02 if you had a GeForce graphics card the official driver update would stop the game from working. Completely. If you wanted to play the game you had to roll back to an old driver version or use an unofficial and very unstable 3rd party driver that a helpful forum member would scour the tinternet for. How many patches did CA release to solve this issue? Well, if you call the Â£20 "Mongol Invasion" expansion pack a patch - one.

And before you ask - I have a sealed copy of FM2008 sitting on my PC, waiting to be opened once I feel I've done as much as I can with my FM07 save.

Dave C · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HonkyDick:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave C:

You may not care about the update, but a lot do and they expect it to be done. So tough.

You may think what I said was nonsense, but given I'm part of that research team I can assure you it's not. A transfer can't create a bug, but aspects of the process could unbalance the database, and it's that they have to test. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I only said nonsense because you used it a few times in your post.

I recommend in future that they concentrate on bug fixes and release a patch first, after that they can do however many data or transfer updates as they want. So then the people that want an update so much can either put up with said 'unbalanced database' or wait for the balanced update. The rest of us just want to play and don't need Johnny Smith to be at his new club 6 months before he actually got there. I start at the English start date and don't want to start at any other time just to accommodate the transfers, so they are a bit out of whack anyway. The players new club could sell them before they have even played for the team as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did manage to pick up on your subtle re-direct with the "nonsense" comment...

The research and coding are done by two seperate teams. One thing isn't suffering for the other and testing of the second patch is ongoing.

If the patch was delayed because of the data update you'd have a point, but that's not the case.

Dave C · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Unicorns are real:

Dave C: Your ostentatious counter to the original post, as true as it may be, is completely extraneous. I don't care if Jonathan James is the only computer genius capable of cracking the code, and SI are yet to track him down. How is any of this the consumer's problem? The clients I deal with on a daily basis at work could give a flying monkey how I end up with the final results I give them. They're not interested in the long and thought out design process(es) I have to painstakingly trawl through to arrive at the final product; in the same vein, I don't care what SI have to go through to 'get it done.' In my opinion they have already failed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whether or not your clients care about the process is irrelevant; they still have to wait for that process to take place.

Hence there was nothing extraneous about my "ostentatious" reply. The OP stated why it should be ready, and was factually inaccurate on every point. That merited correction.

Fieldsy · February 7, 2008

Still it would be nice to have a 'work in progress' update from Miles or Paul C. Im not asking for a date or even exactly what will be in the patch. Just an overall update would be nice.

leftback in the changing room · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fieldsy:

Still it would be nice to have a 'work in progress' update from Miles or Paul C. Im not asking for a date or even exactly what will be in the patch. Just an overall update would be nice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Despite all my chatter above - I have to admit a progress update would be nice. Impractical for SI and unusual yes... but still nice!

nelsonmcjones · February 7, 2008

With todays breaking news about EPL fixtures being played in foreign countries and, apparently, 7 subs. for the 08/09 season (about time) does this mean even more work for the Patch monkies?

Bongo-Bongo · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nelsonmcjones:

With todays breaking news about EPL fixtures being played in foreign countries and, apparently, 7 subs. for the 08/09 season (about time) does this mean even more work for the Patch monkies? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The foreign fixture thing is still on the drawing board. It's not even been given the green light yet, so that won't have any effect.

As for the subs, well we don't know. As it's only just been announced though, I'd be suprised if it is included in the patch.

robmontie1965 · February 7, 2008

i AGREE WITH YOUR POST, MY VERSION IS WORKING FINE, i AM COV CITY IN 2.5 YEARS I HAVE WON CHAMPIONSHIP nd league cup, season 2 won premier league and l cup and chareity shield, the third season I am sitiing top of the league and got through to the knockout phases of champions, maybe it's time Ray Ransom gave me a call. As for the left back I picked up Carlinhos from Santos for 2mill he is quality and only 21. Sorry I am not sure how to attach a screenshot to show you his stats, hope this helps.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by andzel2000:

I think people are too quick to criticize. To get this game even half as realistic as it is would be some undertaking. Updating data is like pointing the great wall of China. I imagine if they missed Dickov's loan deal to Blackpool or something, someone would get arsey on here.

People forget that if they play this for a year they have paid on average about 50p a week for the game. I would imagine that plenty of moaners download the thing from a torrent site as well. I think the guys who are involved in producing this game should have our patience and support. For me, with what they have delivered over the years they are well in credit so if they have to correct some mistakes, so be it.

Anyone know of a good cheap left back by the way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Optimistic Dave · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by robmontie1965:

i AGREE WITH YOUR POST, MY VERSION IS WORKING FINE, i AM COV CITY IN 2.5 YEARS I HAVE WON CHAMPIONSHIP nd league cup, season 2 won premier league and l cup and chareity shield, the third season I am sitiing top of the league and got through to the knockout phases of champions, maybe it's time Ray Ransom gave me a call. As for the left back I picked up Carlinhos from Santos for 2mill he is quality and only 21. Sorry I am not sure how to attach a screenshot to show you his stats, hope this helps.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this proves that the game doesn't work. Coventry as Premier League champions in season 2 should be simply impossible, even if you are the greatest manager the world has ever known (and I detect from your post that you think you are).

Peljam · February 7, 2008

I feel sorry for SI, I really do. People keep bringing up how it's their job and there is no excuse for it not being ready but...they shouldn't be expected to work every hour God sends to please everyone.

Was it Miles who spent a large portion of Christmas day testing just to nip some ill informed complaints in the bud? He shouldn't have to do that.

I've just realised 'please' might irritate people who consider the game unplayable. Not my intention, but if you think the game is genuinely unplayable at this point (patch or no) then take your complaint to trading standards or complain constructively.

If you're right then trading standards will do something, if you complain constructively not only will it be helpful but it'll be more motivating.

What reason do SI have to care about people who are rude and unreasonable? As it stands they listen to their customers far more than any other computer company/organisation does. They get the community involved and take the time to listen. But if all they're hearing is people griping about their hard work, much of it above and beyond, then why should they even try anymore?

They release it early to please some and it won't be up to the standard others want. They take their time and the impatient punters start foaming at the mouth. With all the hot headedness about they can't win.

Going back to the thread title. There is absolutely no reason why there should be a patch at all. So long as the game 'works' then we're not owed anything by SI. But so long as they're listening why don't we try some polite constructive criticism instead of 'I wants'.

There is a reason for it not being out yet though and that is, as I think Nepenthz said, because it's not ready yet.

Mitja · February 7, 2008

... oh, please don't cry!!

Peljam · February 7, 2008

Just for you Mitja I'll hold the tears in.

James.Clench · February 7, 2008

How about this for a reason

7 subs to be named in premiership as of 2008/09

MixitupMixitdictator · February 7, 2008

it's annoying we don't get the 'finished' game till what 6 months before FM 2009. talk about a franchise

Kill Rock Stars · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Peljam:

Was it Miles who spent a large portion of Christmas day testing just to nip some ill informed complaints in the bud? He shouldn't have to do that.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

he'd also made around five posts in gq all december prior to that, iirc. the guy he had a go at was probably talking nonsense, but i notice miles didn't turn his attention to any of the length, intelligent threads discussing flawed aspects of the game, such as the one discussing the transfer system

CowRonaldo · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

The only genuine 'bug' I know of is the Spanish registration issue, which from what I'm aware is relatively rare and avoidable (I may be wrong here). All the other issues such as the one-on-one etc are not technically bugs, they are gameplay issue. If you bought the latest Pro Evo and didn't like the fact that the keeper seemed to save too many of your shots, or the fact that you created too many chances in general you wouldn't straight away cry out 'BUG!!' and start banging onto Konami demanding they release a patch to improve the game. You'd either work round it or simply play something else and possibly try the next edition of Pro Evo before you spent money on it.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a horrible comparison. In Pro Evo or FIFA games, it's possible to improve yourself since you're actually controlling the players. You make the passes and you make the shots.

In FM, you set tactics, but after that point you have no control over your players. When my player is 1-on-1, I can't press L1+O to lob shot it.

Kriss · February 7, 2008

This forum was created for FM players to discuss the game amongst themselves allowing SI to pick pieces of value from it, not as a direct discussion medium with individual SI staff.

Too many people got the idea that paying 18 quid for a game SI made gave them ownership of a piece of Miles Jacobson and other members of SI and also the right to abuse and insult them.

That's the main reason they discuss less here than they ever did before.

What hasn't changed is that they still trawl the forum for items of value and they do discuss any half decent ideas that appear here.

They are also in a business where they have to keep their cards very close to their chest so even if they were planning a major revamp of something or a new feature based on suggestions here they wouldn't give that away by entering into open discussion.

fcdallas1982 · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave C:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HonkyDick:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> You make think it's an easy job to do a full research exercise across several continents incorporating dozens of countries, thousands of players, error-check that, collate it, test it, make sure it's balanced etc. All with a predominantly volunteer team that have their own jobs and lives.

It's not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Talk about nonsense

What the hell has all of that got to do with transfer updates? With a transfer update they don't need to do a 'full research exercise across several continents', all they have to do is move the transfered players to the appropriate clubs, they don't need to 'error-check that, collate it, test it, make sure it's balanced etc', they can re-research in the off season if they need to. They may do all of that for the bugs but not transfers. If they do it for transfers it would be scary, because that would mean 1 simple transfer could have a dramatic 'buggy' impact on the game. Players moving to different clubs shouldn't trigger any bugs that weren't already there.

I don't care about transfer updates anyway, I just want a patch. I didn't buy the game to be a tester, I bought it to be a player....well manager. I'd like to get a few IRL months worth of my FM08 career game before the next version is released and I can't have a career game without Spain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not just a transfer update. It's always been used as an opportunity to allow researchers to evaluate players that were new to them in the summer, to look at youngsters that have come through etc.

You may not care about the update, but a lot do and they expect it to be done. So tough.

You may think what I said was nonsense, but given I'm part of that research team I can assure you it's not. A transfer can't create a bug, but aspects of the process could unbalance the database, and it's that they have to test. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not only that, but a league (MLS) is currently unplayable.

B. Stinson · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James.Clench:

You have to ask yourself "what is the worst case scenario?"

S.I could release the 8.0.2 patch on February the 1st but it would probably be a worse patch than one released on, or around, February the 24th.

I would much rather wait an extra couple of weeks for a better patch

p.s. Furney89 it's disease not disese </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, worst case scenario:

SI decides to simply stick to what's expected of them - the game itself - and not patches or data updates.

I'd like to see all these whiny little babies then, when real-world customer support gives them a good slap to the face.

skintsaint · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by robmontie1965:

i AM COV CITY IN 2.5 YEARS I HAVE WON CHAMPIONSHIP nd league cup, season 2 won premier league and l cup and chareity shield, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow you got entered into charity shield in the 2nd season without winning the FA cup or the Prem league? Bug?

skintsaint · February 7, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MixitupMixitdictator:

it's annoying we don't get the 'finished' game till what 6 months before FM 2009. talk about a franchise </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But then again you will have a whole year till FM09 is bug free

valencia · February 8, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bongo-Bongo:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by valencia:

fair enough, but there are a fair few major bugs that have surfaced in the bugs forum. my gripe is that this seems to have become a yearly ritual with SI (and perhaps a more widespread malaise across the gaming community, as games are rushed out to meet release date projections)

I dont think it is acceptable to purchase something in October, which is effectively only complete upon the release of a patch(s) over 4 months later.

I apologise for singling you out in response, my stance is more against the fanboy apologists (of which i dont count you as one, seeing as you employ reason in your arguments). The consumer has the right of complaint and i would like SI to buck up its ideas. I do feel that there has been very little done by SI to manage expectations on this patch, and in particular the spanish registration bug. a 'it'll be done when its done' attitude is not acceptable when they already have the customer's hard earned readies in their back-pocket! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's certainly fair to say that the need for patches, and seemingly rushed releases is now part of the course for the games industry, particularly when it comes to games that rely on annual releases. Whilst FM is undeniably the market leader, there is notable competition and a delayed release could seriously impact sales, so there is a need to get the product out on the shelf. I'm not going to say whether or not FM was rushed or not as I just don't know, but as I have business geared mind, I can certainly understand the reasoning if it was. Furthermore, this is also becoming more common in the games industry where the release schedule is far less tight. Civilization 4 is possibly one of the best examples. The game was released in a truly disgraceful state, and was for the vast majority, completley unplayable. It was clear that this was released when, based on the quality of the patches, at least 6 months to years further development in order to make the game stable. This is a practice that is becoming more common in the games industry, I'm just grateful that SI are one of the companies that try to rectify problems with games, as there are many companies that don't give a toss once they have your money.

As for your final point, whilst it's not ideal, I am personally of the belief that the "it'll be ready when it's ready" attitude is the best when it comes to the release of a patch. If a date is set, and this isn't met, it then causes huge amounts of anger as the date the user was promised has passed. If the date is met, but the patch is a shocker, then it is likely to cause even more anger. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

good points, well put.

i have to agree with most of what you say, and it is clearly an industry-wide malaise thats creeping in. the difference betwen civ4 and fm08 is that, realistically, fm08 has a shelf life of a year (perhaps only 8 months?) for a product which is effectively redundent within a year perhaps SI need to put more effort into releasing the finished article a lot earlier? The football season isnt far off completion itself. I appreciate that SI DO provide support and that there ARE patches, but i cant help thinking that if there were decent alternatives on the market, we might suddenly find they value their loyal support much more.

valencia · February 8, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hawshiels:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by valencia:

with all due respect mate, however complicated things are to code etc (and im sure they are), the customer has the right to expect what is advertised. the spanish registration bug in particular is a very serious and quite widespread issue. the game has been out 4 months now, and for the many among us who religiously play the spanish league, the game is unplayable. it is not as advertised.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

valencia: If you are having trouble as a result of the Spanish registration bug, you should try the workaround (it's just a really simple couple of steps to stop it happening). This way, you'll be able to enjoy the Spanish league as I do. Try it - it does work. I've now played around 6 or 7 games (my current one being in season 2014/15) and I don't get this problem now.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks mate. I've seen the threads on the bugs forum and tried the various 'workarounds' with varying success. sometimes seemingly working, sometimes not (however many times i reload)

it all seems very arbitrary. if it works for you, then i am genuinely pleased for you. i have had many great seasons managing in spain on previous FMs. this year though, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. it is VERY frustrating and seemingly random. I feel SI owe us a fix for this ASAP (please bear in mind tat this does not ONLY effect Spain. the same issue seems to have been reported for a number of leagues which require registration. most notably, i believe, the problems with the turkish leagues)

George Graham · February 8, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nelsonmcjones:

With todays breaking news about EPL fixtures being played in foreign countries and, apparently, 7 subs. for the 08/09 season (about time) does this mean even more work for the Patch monkies? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IIRC you can probably change the subs rule using the editor, but presume a new game will need to be started.

George Graham · February 8, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by B. Stinson:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James.Clench:

You have to ask yourself "what is the worst case scenario?"

S.I could release the 8.0.2 patch on February the 1st but it would probably be a worse patch than one released on, or around, February the 24th.

I would much rather wait an extra couple of weeks for a better patch

p.s. Furney89 it's disease not disese </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, worst case scenario:

SI decides to simply stick to what's expected of them - the game itself - and not patches or data updates.

I'd like to see all these whiny little babies then, when real-world customer support gives them a good slap to the face. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ridiculous supposition, that doesnt reflect "real world" support at all - if this happened SI would be committing commercial suicide.

Not that SI ever would do this but if they did then many wouldnt buy another FM again.

Hawshiels · February 8, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by valencia:

It all seems very arbitrary. if it works for you, then i am genuinely pleased for you. i have had many great seasons managing in spain on previous FMs. this year though, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. it is VERY frustrating and seemingly random. I feel SI owe us a fix for this ASAP (please bear in mind tat this does not ONLY effect Spain. the same issue seems to have been reported for a number of leagues which require registration. most notably, i believe, the problems with the turkish leagues) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know how you feel about this. There are a few suggested workarounds for this but a couple of them don't work - for me at least, but then I found one that does. Unfortunately, if you haven't saved your game before the window closed, you will have to start again though.

Anyway, when playing the game, watch out for the message that says "Registration window closes tomorrow". When you see this, make sure you go into the team screen and click "Change" at the bottom right. When you do this, you will notice that for some reason, the numbers will have disappeared from your players and you have to allocate them all again.

You should do this for the B team also. Then the following day it may (or sometimes doesn't) ask you to confirm the registration of the players. Do it once again and then confirm the selection and you should be good to go.

The reason most people fall foul of this workaround is because I noticed on a couple of occassions, poeple suggesting waiting until the message appears on the final day and then confirm from there, but there were a couple of times when it didn't appear for me so I had no players registered.

But if you follow what I've suggested here, it should work. I've now played many games and followed this and never had the problem since. It will be fixed in the patch though, but this will keep you going in the meantime.

I didn't realise it affected other leagues (that I don't play in), but it may be worth trying the same process. Obviously it will be fixed in the patch, but this lets you play in the meantime.

Partizan13 · February 8, 2008

I'm kind of torn on this whole subject. I haven't played for about a month, because it felt stupid starting or continuing a game, considering the transfer window, bugs e.t.c. And as some of you know after a month without fm, you lose your patience. Now, I don't want to insult any SI employees, because they are probably just following instructions. However, their marketing strategy is ridicilus. They have three years in a row put out a product, which was only fully playable for a couple of months, before the new edition came. This makes me feel stupid. Why should I buy a game which I cant with cetrainty consider fully playable?

My point is that the way they are prematurely releasing this game is questioning their credibillity and loosing conumers, which potentially could lead to the end of this beautiful game.

Now, I know how big the FM community is, but I'm sure the number will decline if some changes are not made.

Just a thought.

turn it upto 11 · February 8, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skintsaint:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by robmontie1965:

i AM COV CITY IN 2.5 YEARS I HAVE WON CHAMPIONSHIP nd league cup, season 2 won premier league and l cup and chareity shield, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow you got entered into charity shield in the 2nd season without winning the FA cup or the Prem league? Bug? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

won the championship first season, premier second and im guessing he's saying he won charity shield 3rd season

turn it upto 11 · February 8, 2008

anyway on topic can't people just wait, i know its frustrating but posting angry comments demanding the patch isnt going to hurry them up at all, they probaly accept the last patch was a failure so they dont want to do it to fm players again so are taking there time, if they released it now half arsed then within a week all the ones demanding it now would be wondering why it doesnt work properly and want si's heads on a post. love me

valencia · February 8, 2008