Patch 8.0.1. Shots to Goal Ratio not fixed - SHOCKING!! SI Please answer - believe to be related to Closing down and Long shots bug

[Mitja]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JordanC:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

we are trying to make some constructive debate here, and you shouldn't laugh at people just like that, you might not be the smartest person in the world if you think your defensive/less chances/more goals, tactics is working.

if you scor 2 goals from 7 shots isn't it logical to score more than 2 goals with 40 shots?

can you see my point now? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortnutely, it may sound this simple to you, but it's flawed logic. Go back a page or two and read my post about probibilities:

Your argument logic assumes that each miss/chance is an independent event. (for example, the dice in a craps game. Probability remains the same every roll regardless if the last three times it came up 9)

I am stating logic based on DEPENDENT events. (for example, blackjack. Probability changes as certain cards are removed from the deck hence the ability to "count" and bet with more positive expected value)

Of course it completely makes sense that if you roll dice 20 times it should come up as a "5" approximately 20% of the time (1 in 5). If you roll the dice 100 times, it should still come up as a "5" about 20 times.

This is a direct example of your argument that 10 shots equal 2 goals means 40 shots equal 8 gaols.

Blackjack would work the same way if the dealer shuffled the deck after every hand, but they don't. Each subsequent hand has a different probability of result because certain cards were removed. As an exaggerated example, imagine a 8-deck shoe with no aces. You can't make blackjack then!

Going back to a normal shoe, as you see aces removed from the deck as you play, the probability of making blackjack decreases. You're playing the same game, same basic strategy, but your success rate will be much different because a variable has changed.

Equate the blackjack example to shots on goal. Every shot your player misses seems to deflate confidence a little. That's like taking one ace out of the deck. Your players miss a bunch of shots...take even more aces out of the deck. After a while, you'll find yourself playing through the whole shoe and never hitting a blackjack.

My "chance-limiting" tactics are like putting down bets only when there are a lot of aces in the deck as opposed to playing every hand of the entire shoe. I'll play 10 hands and get 2 blackjacks. You'll play 40 hands and also get 2 blackjacks. Does that mean the game is rigged? Of course not.

Should a team that bombards the goal 40 times a game be able to win more often? Not my point of argument here. I'm just stating the theory that your team may be thinking "damn, we shot 14 times without converting" thereform lowering their confidence for further opportunities. As the example before, highlighting how your lack of goals on following attempts may be DEPENDENT on your success rate in the previous ones.

By not giving my team the opportunity to lose confidence in a high amount of missed shots, I seem able to get my players to convert a much higher percentage when indeed the shots come.

Is this clearer now? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

are we talking about football ?

I think I know what you are talking about. and you are probably right that happens in the game. IRE it's not like that:

- it's hard for any team to make 20+ shot's per game, not to mention 30+ (I don't recall any such game, but it surely happened)

-it's even harder to make such matches repeat match after match

-wheen they happen, that team mostly wins

[Rashidi]

pkms people ...if you want the devs to understand what's happening pkms will illustrate the point more clearly

[Mitja]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

pkms people ...if you want the devs to understand what's happening pkms will illustrate the point more clearly </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

???

[Ty H]

I'm not having huge problems with this but I did have a match last night against lazio with Man U, I have 40 shots, 29 on target they had 4 shots 4 on target, drew 1-1, Rooney had about 15 one on ones!!

[rebmalin]

Guys, I don't know why you bother. The thing is, this has been in the game for years now. It's obviously something done on purpose so that you don't get teams like port vale knocking of man united. There would be some sort of rule in the code, based on club reputation, that causes this thing to happen. Which is fine, except it only seems to apply to human managed teams. You will never see an AI managed team have the opposition GK get man of the match game after game. And you will never see SI admit that this is wrong.

[Mitja]

WHAT I DID? WENT BACK TO FIRST BETA PATCH AND ENJOYING IT A LOT

I agree. I said all I know, it seems uselles to bother with this anymore, it's not my problem.

[gerry58]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rebmalin:

Guys, I don't know why you bother. The thing is, this has been in the game for years now. It's obviously something done on purpose so that you don't get teams like port vale knocking of man united. There would be some sort of rule in the code, based on club reputation, that causes this thing to happen. Which is fine, except it only seems to apply to human managed teams. You will never see an AI managed team have the opposition GK get man of the match game after game. And you will never see SI admit that this is wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SI should learn from their experience with OOTP 2007 wich is an excellent baseball sim with a robust game engine. Quite disturbing to hear that the problem has been in the game for years. And the betatesters?

[Niche-man]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ty H:

I'm not having huge problems with this but I did have a match last night against lazio with Man U, I have 40 shots, 29 on target they had 4 shots 4 on target, drew 1-1, Rooney had about 15 one on ones!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry but I do not understand the problem with the amount of shots you have on goal in comparison to the opposition. Just as IRL just because you have a large amount of shots on goal does not necessary mean you will win games. I have witnesses many games in real life where one team dominates possession and has 20 odd shots on goal around 15 on target and just cannot score, whereas the opposition has 1 shot and 1 on target and wins the game 1-0. Thats what makes football exciting and it is true to life. Anything can happen in football thats why we love it.

[George Graham]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Niche-man:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ty H:

I'm not having huge problems with this but I did have a match last night against lazio with Man U, I have 40 shots, 29 on target they had 4 shots 4 on target, drew 1-1, Rooney had about 15 one on ones!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry but I do not understand the problem with the amount of shots you have on goal in comparison to the opposition. Just as IRL just because you have a large amount of shots on goal does not necessary mean you will win games. I have witnesses many games in real life where one team dominates possession and has 20 odd shots on goal around 15 on target and just cannot score, whereas the opposition has 1 shot and 1 on target and wins the game 1-0. Thats what makes football exciting and it is true to life. Anything can happen in football thats why we love it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No disrespect but if you think that creating 10-15 one on one opportunities per game, or having 29 shots on target in any top level game is realistic- then you need to pay attention to real life games more.

Yes, anything can happen in football but this is happening to lots of people all the time.

[Niche-man]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Niche-man:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ty H:

I'm not having huge problems with this but I did have a match last night against lazio with Man U, I have 40 shots, 29 on target they had 4 shots 4 on target, drew 1-1, Rooney had about 15 one on ones!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry but I do not understand the problem with the amount of shots you have on goal in comparison to the opposition. Just as IRL just because you have a large amount of shots on goal does not necessary mean you will win games. I have witnesses many games in real life where one team dominates possession and has 20 odd shots on goal around 15 on target and just cannot score, whereas the opposition has 1 shot and 1 on target and wins the game 1-0. Thats what makes football exciting and it is true to life. Anything can happen in football thats why we love it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No disrespect but if you think that creating 10-15 one on one opportunities per game, or having 29 shots on target in any top level game is realistic- then you need to pay attention to real life games more.

Yes, anything can happen in football but this is happening to lots of people all the time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was not referring to the one-on-ones, you the miss the overall point, the point was that you can dominate a match but it does not necessarily indicate you will win this match. It is simply a case of too many people throwing their toys out of the pram because they are teams such as man utd and probably are realistically glory hunters in real life. They expect to win every single match on football manager or its not worth playing. The point is simple if you can't except the game isn't perfect don't play it. Don't come on forums whining about it all day.

[Niche-man]

I apologise that was meant to say " if you can't accept the game isn't perfect" not " if you can't except".

[Midge]

ROFL just won in the World Cup final 1 - 0 against Italy.

England Stats:

Shots: 27

Shots On Target: 16

Shots Off Target: 11

Goals: 1

Italy Stats:

Shots: 24

Shots On Target: 15

Shots Off Target: 9

Goals: 0

Total Game Stats:

Shots: 51

On Target: 31

Off Target: 20

Goals: 1

Not Very realistic, I have had it bad before but in the World Cup final where Chances are few and far between for 51 attempted shots its poor. Both Goalkeepers ended on a 10.

[PaulC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Midge:

ROFL just won in the World Cup final 1 - 0 against Italy.

England Stats:

Shots: 27

Shots On Target: 16

Shots Off Target: 11

Goals: 1

Italy Stats:

Shots: 24

Shots On Target: 15

Shots Off Target: 9

Goals: 0

Total Game Stats:

Shots: 51

On Target: 31

Off Target: 20

Goals: 1

Not Very realistic, I have had it bad before but in the World Cup final where Chances are few and far between for 51 attempted shots its poor. Both Goalkeepers ended on a 10. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A perfect example of a match where we could use the pkm to see what tactical combinations produced such an open game.

You can mail it to me or just post a link. You get it by clicking save on the match report screen.

Cheers,

Paul

[Alex-sKIp_E]

I'm getting this problem, just as loads of people are, and I have a bit of programming experience, and I disagree with what people say about it not applying to computer teams.

I'm fairly sure that the way that the match engine is programmed, if it is a bug for one side, it is a bug for the other...However, logic (and any one that has done probability would know this), that if the number of goals are lowered, than the better team winning the match is lowered....

If on average, teams score 1 goal, from 30 shots (which is not nearly enough from 30 shots!) then they can have 29 shots and not score...And the other side may just be lucky enough to score from there one and only shot..They only have a 1/30 chance still, but they may just be luckier...

This is what I think happens with the opposition scoring from less shots...

I think the MAJOR problem isn't that the game is 'cheating' as some people seem to say, but because is just that goals aren't being scored...

And as someone mentioned earlier, they're especially not being scored on one on ones, and at times when they should easily be scored...When they are, it is for things like rebounds, and free headers...I think the goallies are just too good as things are..

[alutac13]

Stole this idea from someone forget who. Change strikers to taking long shots mixed if they were on rarely. The striker then shoots slightly earlier- from what the match engine presumably thinks is not a 1v1 situation. Does not always go in but at least there is some variety...saves, parries, misses target, goals..not just slow back pass to opponents gk.

Have noticed that it seems the attackers do better from a wider angle in these situations rather than ver central. Seems like only lobs go in from central locations. (still talking about 1v1 or near 1v1 sits.)

[mattbuck]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Midge:

ROFL just won in the World Cup final 1 - 0 against Italy.

England Stats:

Shots: 27

Shots On Target: 16

Shots Off Target: 11

Goals: 1

Italy Stats:

Shots: 24

Shots On Target: 15

Shots Off Target: 9

Goals: 0

Total Game Stats:

Shots: 51

On Target: 31

Off Target: 20

Goals: 1

Not Very realistic, I have had it bad before but in the World Cup final where Chances are few and far between for 51 attempted shots its poor. Both Goalkeepers ended on a 10. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A perfect example of a match where we could use the pkm to see what tactical combinations produced such an open game.

You can mail it to me or just post a link. You get it by clicking save on the match report screen.

Cheers,

Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Paul, did you see my post on the last page? I uploaded a pkm for you, and i can provide some more if need be.

Cheers

[gerry58]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

A perfect example of a match where we could use the pkm to see what tactical combinations produced such an open game.

Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that's the problem as i see it. No matter how open or offensive tactics you use, the game should never generate a such high number of shots on goal per game. It doesn't happen in professional football.

[Guest Joshlee]

this is annoying...my world-class striker have to shoot at least 10+ times on target to get a goal, but my opp striker can score at the first time one target........

my defenders play man mark and tight marking,with 15+ concentration and worldclass technique still keep day dreaming....god

FM2008 is the worst CM/FM series ever

FIX IT SI

[GoGa70]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Well, that's the problem as i see it. No matter how open or offensive tactics you use, the game should never generate a such high number of shots on goal per game. It doesn't happen in professional football. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't Paul ask you for a pkm? So why wouldn't you provide one? Words mean nothing - pkms will tell them what causes the problem.

[Mitja]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Joshlee:

this is annoying...my world-class striker have to shoot at least 10+ times on target to get a goal, but my opp striker can score at the first time one target........

my defenders play man mark and tight marking,with 15+ concentration and worldclass technique still keep day dreaming....god

FM2008 is the worst CM/FM series ever

FIX IT SI </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

try use the first beta patch, it's not bug free, but defenetly more real.

[kleb]

This is serious a problem!! 33 shots and no goals!!!!!

[kleb]

Where can I download the BETA PATCH?

[101east]

Omg this is serious.....i had Adebayor have 4 1 on 1's and missed every chance against Middlesbrough , Eduardo have 5 and miss 5against Bolton the next match, and after that i had Van Persi have 4 chances and miss the, against Everton ...3 matches in a row where at least one of my leading strikes missed chances where they could at least bury one?

Needs to be sorted.

[Mitja]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kleb:

Where can I download the BETA PATCH? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/8142076563

first beta

[Mitja]

http://rapidshare.com/files/72540417/fm2008_801_beta1patch.exe

[George Graham]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Niche-man:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Niche-man:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ty H:

I'm not having huge problems with this but I did have a match last night against lazio with Man U, I have 40 shots, 29 on target they had 4 shots 4 on target, drew 1-1, Rooney had about 15 one on ones!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry but I do not understand the problem with the amount of shots you have on goal in comparison to the opposition. Just as IRL just because you have a large amount of shots on goal does not necessary mean you will win games. I have witnesses many games in real life where one team dominates possession and has 20 odd shots on goal around 15 on target and just cannot score, whereas the opposition has 1 shot and 1 on target and wins the game 1-0. Thats what makes football exciting and it is true to life. Anything can happen in football thats why we love it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No disrespect but if you think that creating 10-15 one on one opportunities per game, or having 29 shots on target in any top level game is realistic- then you need to pay attention to real life games more.

Yes, anything can happen in football but this is happening to lots of people all the time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was not referring to the one-on-ones, you the miss the overall point, the point was that you can dominate a match but it does not necessarily indicate you will win this match. It is simply a case of too many people throwing their toys out of the pram because they are teams such as man utd and probably are realistically glory hunters in real life. They expect to win every single match on football manager or its not worth playing. The point is simple if you can't except the game isn't perfect don't play it. Don't come on forums whining about it all day. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually your missing the entire point of this thread- as pretty much this entire topic revolves around the unrealitic amount of one on ones created under certain conditions.

Its not about winning, and this thread contains little in the way of whining- its just a bunch of people having the same problem and trying to get it fixed.

[GigsonTZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Niche-man:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Niche-man:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ty H:

I'm not having huge problems with this but I did have a match last night against lazio with Man U, I have 40 shots, 29 on target they had 4 shots 4 on target, drew 1-1, Rooney had about 15 one on ones!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry but I do not understand the problem with the amount of shots you have on goal in comparison to the opposition. Just as IRL just because you have a large amount of shots on goal does not necessary mean you will win games. I have witnesses many games in real life where one team dominates possession and has 20 odd shots on goal around 15 on target and just cannot score, whereas the opposition has 1 shot and 1 on target and wins the game 1-0. Thats what makes football exciting and it is true to life. Anything can happen in football thats why we love it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No disrespect but if you think that creating 10-15 one on one opportunities per game, or having 29 shots on target in any top level game is realistic- then you need to pay attention to real life games more.

Yes, anything can happen in football but this is happening to lots of people all the time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was not referring to the one-on-ones, you the miss the overall point, the point was that you can dominate a match but it does not necessarily indicate you will win this match. It is simply a case of too many people throwing their toys out of the pram because they are teams such as man utd and probably are realistically glory hunters in real life. They expect to win every single match on football manager or its not worth playing. The point is simple if you can't except the game isn't perfect don't play it. Don't come on forums whining about it all day. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what would you expect if your team match after match get average of 17 shots on goal... no one expect to win every match but we doo expect to win it after we have 26 shots on goal. i accept defeat if opponent outplays me... and point is evem more simple than YOU think... i payed for this game and i want playable game becouse I PAYED for it and have every right to whine on theese forums.

[daleuk8]

paul c, i sent you an e-mail a few days ago but as of yet i've had no reply

[Offside]

It's really annoying me now, happens so often it's untrue.

[loisvale]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

Managing at Lower Levels is Easy

If you manage at lower levels, you don't need to worry too much about tatcical sophistication. A simple Home and Away tactic will do the job, as long as they are contructed reasonably logically. Build a good set of tactics and you will do well.

Managing at Higher Levels is Difficult

If you have a world class team then it is more difficult to manage them.

Reasons:

1: You might not have the requisite reputation and thus players will not perform.

2: You do have the requisite reputation but haven't come to terms with the extra level of tactical knowledge required at the top level. This has only been an issue since 07 but is the major cause of the Missed Shotsd 'Bug'.

NB: I'm not trying to insult tactics here, just to give some advice. A lot of tactics are excellent until this scenario presents itself. It does require a different outlook to combat it.

The Missed Shots 'Bug'

This only happens at higher levels with European quality sides. Why? Simply because the AI will play ultra-defensively and restrict space as much as possible. This leads to the Missed Shots 'Bug'. A lot of the chances created are hurried becasue the user tactic is not actually creating the quality of chance that the 2d seems to suggest. Players are snatching at chances because of poorly thought out tactics against ultra-defensive sides. This is not to say that the tactic is poor; rather it is poor against a certain type of formation. Most of you complaining about the Missed Shot 'Bug' don't see it against other big sides, because they don't play so defensively, and thus your world class players have the time and space to operate and thus play to their attributes.

The problem is in the representation of the match, rather than it being a bug. The 2d makes it impossible to see the actual quality of the chance, and the commentary doesn't help. The only measurement device is the percentage of shots to goals scored. If it is hovering around the 5% mark, then something is wrong tactically, and those experiencing it need to come to terms with that. Posting result after result doesn't convince the naysayers and hardly helps those experiencing the issue. Thinking about and experimenting with different tactical ideas might help though.

The following section contains tactical advice, so if you don't want to read it (e.g. Jimbo) I suggest skipping the rest.

Ten Tips to Combat the Missed Shot 'Bug'

1: Don't play a TM. It restricts play and makes it one-dimensional and is thus easy to defend

2: Think about a playmaker if you have a player who can perform that function. It helps maintain possession and generally increases the quality of chance.

3: Wide and deep (to open space)

4: Three free roles, with high CF, to improve chances of the unexpected, which is impossible to defend against.

5: Slow it down and reduce passing to improve possession and to increase the quality of chance (tempo 1-3 in Europe, 4-5 in UK). You can up tempo for short burts at any point in the game to provide the AI with a different challenge.

6: Heavy pressing and hard tackling to try and win the ball up the pitch (slightly less for DCs and FBs, but high nonetheless)

7: Zonal, loose marking to increase space

8: Lots of Through Balls

9: (not sure about this one but certainly worked in 07) Hold Up Ball with wingers and forwards to allow time for your midfielders/FBs to catch up with play and overload the box.

10: FWRs often for FBs to overload the box and increase opportunity of uncontested cross.

I hope that helps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have read this post and many others with interest. I really do admire those who put a lot of effort into providing advice on these forums to make the game far more enjoyable for others.Great stuff! However my brain is actually hurting with all the various, often conflicting advice found and possible bugs. Like many I find I have little time to actually play the game let alone work hard on tactics and prefer to upload a solid tactic following research on the forums and tinker with it.In the past I have used wwfan tactics as a base for my tinkering(your work has made this game playable for me and I am sure many others - thank you). I have seen from earlier posts that your theories for 2008 will come later when you have tested the patch etc and I look forward to those when they come.

You do say above that a solid home and away tactic should bring relative success at lower league level. Do you have any examples to upload for a base that I can use to tinker with? Are your 2007 tactics still useable in 2008? If you can help again until your detailed 2008 theories come out great. If you consider me a lazy arse and I should have a go myself from scratch then that is also no problem and please say so.

Either way as I said your contributions have made this game playable for me and given me a much better understanding of how this works. Keep up the good work!

Cheers

[kennec]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Midge:

ROFL just won in the World Cup final 1 - 0 against Italy.

England Stats:

Shots: 27

Shots On Target: 16

Shots Off Target: 11

Goals: 1

Italy Stats:

Shots: 24

Shots On Target: 15

Shots Off Target: 9

Goals: 0

Total Game Stats:

Shots: 51

On Target: 31

Off Target: 20

Goals: 1

Not Very realistic, I have had it bad before but in the World Cup final where Chances are few and far between for 51 attempted shots its poor. Both Goalkeepers ended on a 10. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

paul isnt even more unrealistic that england made it to wc finals then made all those chanses in a computer game? isnt it time for england to be tuned down.

[kleb]

Henry, Aguëro and Adebayor misses 15(!) SOT! With 8 1 on 1 with the keeper!!!

[eXistenZ]

Originally posted by wwfan:

The Missed Shots 'Bug'

This only happens at higher levels with European quality sides. Why? Simply because the AI will play ultra-defensively and restrict space as much as possible. This leads to the Missed Shots 'Bug'. A lot of the chances created are hurried becasue the user tactic is not actually creating the quality of chance that the 2d seems to suggest. Players are snatching at chances because of poorly thought out tactics against ultra-defensive sides. This is not to say that the tactic is poor; rather it is poor against a certain type of formation. Most of you complaining about the Missed Shot 'Bug' don't see it against other big sides, because they don't play so defensively, and thus your world class players have the time and space to operate and thus play to their attributes.

The problem is in the representation of the match, rather than it being a bug. The 2d makes it impossible to see the actual quality of the chance, and the commentary doesn't help. The only measurement device is the percentage of shots to goals scored. If it is hovering around the 5% mark, then something is wrong tactically, and those experiencing it need to come to terms with that. Posting result after result doesn't convince the naysayers and hardly helps those experiencing the issue. Thinking about and experimenting with different tactical ideas might help though.

QUOTE]

You say if your finishing rating is 5%, there is something wrong with your tactics. This is ridculous. Tactics are there to create chances, the finishing rating is there to do something with the chances. And if my players with finsihing 18-20 can't score, i don't want to know what is going to happen when i manage a smaller clubs with less beter players. Or does "finishing" doesn't matter, well it's the impression SI is giving me.

Besides, when you lose (as a big club) it's always by the opposition's keeper, who is been playing like he has four arms.

Indeed we can't see which kind of chance it is, but i have every match at least 5 one-on-one situations where the strikers should score. We can see that in 2D.

SI needs URGENTLY solve this matter.

[Mattp1980]

Hi Si Team,

I've uploaded a PKM and my tactic in the PKM folder, the game was a cup tie v Ipswitch I had alot of 1v1 all of which were saved (1 was parried for a tap in). Hope this helps get to the bottom of this.

Matt

[101east]

[QU OTE]Originally posted by Niche-man:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ty H:

I'm not having huge problems with this but I did have a match last night against lazio with Man U, I have 40 shots, 29 on target they had 4 shots 4 on target, drew 1-1, Rooney had about 15 one on ones!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry but I do not understand the problem with the amount of shots you have on goal in comparison to the opposition. Just as IRL just because you have a large amount of shots on goal does not necessary mean you will win games. I have witnesses many games in real life where one team dominates possession and has 20 odd shots on goal around 15 on target and just cannot score, whereas the opposition has 1 shot and 1 on target and wins the game 1-0. Thats what makes football exciting and it is true to life. Anything can happen in football thats why we love it.Yea and? Arsenal this season are creating and scoring goals against every team....last season they has a problem with finishing because henry was injured....but this is not to do with finishing or having good strikers ..its to do with the game functioning properly

[Offside]

I'm giving the game a rest for now because of this. In the Championship with strong forward line and keep battering opponents goal yet they have one shot with a player with crappy stats and I lose 0-1 with their keeper motm again.

[rebmalin]

It doesn't just happen with high quality sides. I'm newly promoted, and game after game the opposition goal keeper gets man of the match (Except when I am playing vastly superior teams like a Man U or arsenal). And so he should, considering he saves a phenomenal amount of one on ones. It seems the shots directly front on are the biggest problem.

[ivod]

just drew 1-1 with west ham. they had 6 shots on goal and bellamy scored. i had 35 shots and 20 on goal and my strikers zlatan and aguero couldn't score. ronaldo missed loads, nani missed, matias fernandez missed, i dominitated the game throughout but couln't score more than one(which was a header not a one on one).

Ok, sure this could happen IRL but this occurs way to often in the game. Seriously, every other game i have 20+ shots on goal but only score one goal. Its down to my defense to keep the cleen sheet.

[ivod]

btw, robert green got a 9 cos he had 15+ world class saves even though his stats are crap and his reflexes are only 16.

[GoGa70]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ivod:

btw, robert green got a 9 cos he had 15+ world class saves even though his stats are crap and his reflexes are only 16. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Reflexes 16 is a very good stat

[uclazy31]

i work around this issue by using a striker with high creativity and likes to lob. lobs and chips seem most effective in the 1 v1 situations. my other strikers can have a 20 finish and 20 composure but they will score fewer than the guy who loves to lob.

[earmack]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ivod:

btw, robert green got a 9 cos he had 15+ world class saves even though his stats are crap and his reflexes are only 16. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Robert Green is a class goalkeeper, but yeh one on ones aren't good chances in the game, I rate them as lower than freekicks and corners now. I've changed my style of play completely from narrow, slow passing game through the middle to wide slow temp, direct passing with players making all kinds of over-lapping runs out wide,this results in many crosses which result in a decent goal return with decent strikers. This game now reminds me very much of ISS Pro 98 on the hardest difficulty setting where every keeper was insanely good and it literally took 3/4 shots from 6 yards to score and crosses where the ONLY way to go because one on ones resulted in the keeper catching the ball.

[earmack]

I recently have had a run of good form possibly because of the tactical changes suggested by WWFan, so thanks WWF.

In looking at the goalkeeper of Scunthorpe United (in the championship I am Barnet-2013) I found his average rating for the season was 5.9 over 29 games which is incredibly poor, HOWEVER his two ratings against me were 9, which means his average against every one but me is what 5.6?, he's very average and probably at best is a good league two standard keeper, those two nines are his only MoTM's in 130 odd games. Infuriating (Btw lost both games).

[eXistenZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 101east:

I'm sorry but I do not understand the problem with the amount of shots you have on goal in comparison to the opposition. Just as IRL just because you have a large amount of shots on goal does not necessary mean you will win games. I have witnesses many games in real life where one team dominates possession and has 20 odd shots on goal around 15 on target and just cannot score, whereas the opposition has 1 shot and 1 on target and wins the game 1-0. Thats what makes football exciting and it is true to life. Anything can happen in football thats why we love it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it can happen sometimes in RL. , so it can happen in the game. But not every ******* match. be serious. And not with strikers who have high finishing against mediocre keepers/defenders.

[Lyvean]

Just occurred to me and I would like an answer from SI please. Its pretty logical to ask people for their pkms to understand why the 1 on 1 bug and shot/goal ratio bug are occurring.

The thing is though, don't they have their own pkms to test? Don't they encounter these two problems when they play the game, so as to test their own pkms too? Are their games playing normally?

[gerry58]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 101east:

I'm sorry but I do not understand the problem with the amount of shots you have on goal in comparison to the opposition. Just as IRL just because you have a large amount of shots on goal does not necessary mean you will win games. I have witnesses many games in real life where one team dominates possession and has 20 odd shots on goal around 15 on target and just cannot score, whereas the opposition has 1 shot and 1 on target and wins the game 1-0. Thats what makes football exciting and it is true to life. Anything can happen in football thats why we love it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yea and? Arsenal this season are creating and scoring goals against every team....last season they has a problem with finishing because henry was injured....but this is not to do with finishing or having good strikers ..its to do with the game functioning properly

Are you kidding me? Have you seen the stats posted by Midge? Thats 51 total shots on goal in a 90 minutes game = more than one shot every 2 minutes on average. That's are the statistics from the games i play with my friends in the backyard not of a professional football game.

[Themistofelis]

I will have to agree on that , if you need 1' to build up an attack 51 shots will take 51' out of 90' , if you count the time gk's need to gather the ball from the mountains where your strikers sent it , time waisting and fouls it is a totally unrealistic amount of chances .

I have too experience the super goalies issue and saw that AI needs fewer chances to score , i don't believe this has anything to do with tactics and it is an issue that appeared in all SI games so far and IMO it needs fixing .

You can copy the tactics AI uses from their folder , paste them in your tactics folder and test on your own if the problem is caused by tactics or it is a hardcoded AI cheat.

[Mitja]

is there realy a problem with SOT/GOALS ratio?

if you make 50 shots on goal and you don't score-> i'ts tactics

[Lyvean]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

is there realy a problem with SOT/GOALS ratio?

if you make 50 shots on goal and you don't score-> i'ts tactics </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jesus...

[Mitja]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lyvean:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

is there realy a problem with SOT/GOALS ratio?

if you make 50 shots on goal and you don't score-> i'ts tactics </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jesus... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol,