Patch 8.0.1. Shots to Goal Ratio not fixed - SHOCKING!! SI Please answer - believe to be related to Closing down and Long shots bug

[danielllll]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sweed:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

The game somehow stops me from scoring easy goals and preventing me winning matches I should have won.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, just wow. That's got to be the post of the year, too funny. If you are not winning it is something YOU are doing, it's not the game going out of it's way to cheat you. When I lose a match I may yell at my monitor or curse my bad luck but then I go back and try to figure out what I could have done better instead of blaming the coding of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

sweed you know the game ain't perfect. so stop kidding yourself

[Law_Man]

This is what I wrote in another thread earlier today. It's food for thought....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">For the record, my personal contribution to this thread would be:

Law_Man the idealist :

-The game should be released shortly after the summer transfer window closes each year i.e. mid-September.

-It should be properly tested

-It should be released on-time,

-It should be released without the need for any major patches to fix major issues which should have been picked up in testing.

-Given the fact that the season finishes in May, and that Si will receive another £25 from me again in October, it should not take until January or Febuary to get a final version of the game empty of major issues.

Versus

Law_Man the realist:

-I know that obviously SI want to test the game as much as they can before release so release is probably delayed to allow for this.

-I know that SI obviously want to do their best to produce as a good a game as possible which will satisfy as many of their customers as possible

-Clearly SI have a probably Sega-pressured marketing and release deadline which needs to be met, both to get ahead of the competition and to realise the true value of the money spent on marketing. This might lead SI to release the game even though their are known issues.

-I know that SI will endeavour to release adequate patches within a reasonable amount of time and offer good customer service in relation to this.

-I know that I can either pay my money and take my choice, or not. And that any whinging will not alter the above points in this list.

So who wins between Law_Man the realist and Law_Man the idealist? Well no-one really, and there's no point having rant after rant after rant after rant because the idealist in you/me won't be satifisfied because of all the things that the realist in you/me knows.

Play well, relax, and think of all the millions of people in the world at Christmas who are much less fortunate than you. Those children who are starving or dying from Leukemia and who would give anything to have the FM2008 or a computer to play it on, they'd even have it with patch 8.01!

Ho ho ho and Happy Christmas to you all </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Guest bonza]

Keeper ninja

I dont need to say anything

[banquet]

what are si doing about this major major problem?

[gMoses]

Checked my last 5 games. In five games my team took 48 shots. The most in a game was 15, the least was 8. I've scored 12 goals.

A ratio of 1 goal every 4 shots.

My opponents outshot me getting 57 shots. The most in a game was 16, the least was 9. They scored 8 times.

A ratio of about 1 goal every 7 shots.

All these were home games

[Rickooko]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bonza:

Keeper ninja

I dont need to say anything </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you lost 2 goals from 2 shots too! Perfect!!

[Kevin_M]

I agree with many here - this is a real issue, and not just people whining because they aren't having success. In my own case, my level of success has been fine; I have started seasons with Bayern, Inter and AC Milan and won the league in the first season every time. I nearly did league/CL/cup treble with Inter, using a plain ol' 4-4-2. Succeeding in FM08 is more than possible.

BUT...

The match engine is not realistic, and this is spoiling the fun for me and others too, as evidenced in this thread. I've been playing this game for donkey's years and 8.0.1 is the first version that I've played and instantly thought "something isn't right here." In fact it was only after I'd played it for a while and had that thought that I came to the forums to see if others were experiencing the same.

With Bayern I had a mixture of direct and short passing, medium tempo/width and a balanced mentality. With Inter a slower tempo, shorter passing and narrower width, same balanced mentality. Both 4-4-2. With AC I had a 4-1-2-1-2, slow/short/narrow, defensive mentality. Yet the same thing keeps occurring - unrealistic amounts of shots on goal for my team, often more than 20 but occasionally over 30. Of course this can happen in RL, especially when smaller teams come and park the proverbial bus in front of goal, but not with the frequency it does and when a low-scoring game between to more evenly-matched sides has 40-50 shots in total it starts to get a bit ridiculous.

I am going to keep on experimenting, and if I can get another game going with lots of examples of this behaviour during a season, I will upload the entire saved game and tactics I've used to my own server space, then maybe if someone at SI is interested they could analyse it.

[banquet]

does anyone know if si are doing something about it?

[PaulC]

Yes we have been looking into it, and other issues flagged on these forums. The plan is for there to be an update including an updated match engine sometime after the next transfer window closes.

Cheers,

Paul

[eXistenZ]

That can't be hapening. We have to wait untill February to start a decent game? The game ****ing came out end october.

We have to wait three months to get a decent game, what is wrong with you SI. People don't want to have a transfer update, they want a match engine that works, how difficult is it to modify a game you created yourself?

Very well done SI it is the first and only time i buy FM. I waisted 50€ for nothing.

[Rickooko]

Why do we need an update of players transfer which is happening in January?

To be honestly i feel most of the fans will want a fix for this issue as soon as possible but not with the non necessary players update.

It sounds like an excuse for delaying the patch for me.

[idafc]

It is rather shocking that a game released in the third week of October will not be optimised until February. Really? You can't possibly make the proper match engine fixes, release them, and then release a separate data update? One doesn't require the other, and I, for one, can live with anachronistic data so long as the game is functional.

I recognise the work you put into the game, that you have put into the game for more than a decade, but the handling of FM 2008 is unforgivable, this update is a slap in the face to fans who've waited patiently, and I see no reason to purchase fm09, if this is the way development has regressed.

[Rickooko]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kevin_M:

I agree with many here - this is a real issue, and not just people whining because they aren't having success. In my own case, my level of success has been fine; I have started seasons with Bayern, Inter and AC Milan and won the league in the first season every time. I nearly did league/CL/cup treble with Inter, using a plain ol' 4-4-2. Succeeding in FM08 is more than possible.

BUT...

The match engine is not realistic, and this is spoiling the fun for me and others too, as evidenced in this thread. I've been playing this game for donkey's years and 8.0.1 is the first version that I've played and instantly thought "something isn't right here." In fact it was only after I'd played it for a while and had that thought that I came to the forums to see if others were experiencing the same.

With Bayern I had a mixture of direct and short passing, medium tempo/width and a balanced mentality. With Inter a slower tempo, shorter passing and narrower width, same balanced mentality. Both 4-4-2. With AC I had a 4-1-2-1-2, slow/short/narrow, defensive mentality. Yet the same thing keeps occurring - unrealistic amounts of shots on goal for my team, often more than 20 but occasionally over 30. Of course this can happen in RL, especially when smaller teams come and park the proverbial bus in front of goal, but not with the frequency it does and when a low-scoring game between to more evenly-matched sides has 40-50 shots in total it starts to get a bit ridiculous. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly the same here. After working on my tactic i start to work out the match engine in FM08 and winning the league with Werder Bremen in the first season.

But somethings go very wrong is i have over 15 ~ 20 Leagues games end as 0-0 or 1-0 even both team have 40+ shots on goal together. Both the GK and Shooter are acting extremely unrealistic. There are too many unbelievable miss or saves in all of matches.

It comes to a point that players attributes and tactic make little sense and all match are end in unrealistic and uncontrollable way.

Like many of you guys, I have played CM/FM since cm98 and this is the first time i feel the match engine gone totally wrong in handling the scoring issue.

[PaulC]

We havent got a match engine patch ready that we are "sitting on". Its work in progress, because we want it to be top drawer.

So rather than promise something we may not be able to deliver I'm stating that it will be definitely included in the data update.

Paul

[CowRonaldo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eXistenZ:

That can't be hapening. We have to wait untill February to start a decent game? The game ****ing came out end october.

We have to wait three months to get a decent game, what is wrong with you SI. People don't want to have a transfer update, they want a match engine that works, how difficult is it to modify a game you created yourself?

Very well done SI it is the first and only time i buy FM. I waisted 50€ for nothing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's harsh but true. I wanted to have some fun with this game since I'm off school for 2 weeks, but the patch won't come out till 2 months after...

There should at least be a beta patch with 3 things fixed: 1. spanish reg. bug, 2. board confidence bug, 3. match engine bug.

[Rickooko]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

No sorry I cant see how on earth you conclude that "the game is cheating"! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry Paul maybe it is hard word to say...

but we would have scores like 15-3, or 10-0 then, what I want to say the game just prevents those scores, which is good in my opinoum...but.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cheating is totally the wrong word for that. The game doesnt "prevent" any score, but we tune each part of the match engine so that over 100s of games, the average no of goals/shots on target etc is close to real life.

I think when talking about these issues the key is "quality of chance". I think if there is re-balancing to be done going forward then it starts with that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This statement really worry me a lot.

May be i am wrong but what i feel is SI has introduced a hardcore scoring control code in order to balancing the overall scoring over a league season. (or 100 matches for example)

What this code does is limiting the possibility for AI cracking super human tactic or any high/low scoring issue caused by the match engine.

That means, in a big picture (lets say 100 matches again), the average scoring rate per match in game will reflect the data you can collected in real. I dont know what the figure is but lets say 2.5.

Then, lets say a player create a super "effective" AI cracking tactic which can easily creating 40+ chance per games and grab 4~5 goals per match. However, under this balance hardcore code introduced, no matter how many good chance your tactic can create, you can still score an average of 2.5 goals at most in, "100 matches" or the like.

For me, i prefer the old match engine which would allow some high scoring tactic to score crazy, rather then a hardcore balancing code to control the overall scoring rate in an unrealistic way.

[CowRonaldo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

We havent got a match engine patch ready that we are "sitting on". Its work in progress, because we want it to be top drawer.

So rather than promise something we may not be able to deliver I'm stating that it will be definitely included in the data update.

Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry for posting again, but like I said there could be a beta patch fixing those 3 main problems.

I'm sure most of us don't care if it's not top drawer, since anything would be better than what it is right now.

[idafc]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

We havent got a match engine patch ready that we are "sitting on". Its work in progress, because we want it to be top drawer.

So rather than promise something we may not be able to deliver I'm stating that it will be definitely included in the data update.

Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd recommend, next year, not releasing the game at all until its component parts are determined to be "top drawer."

[adonis]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by idafc:

I'd recommend, next year, not releasing the game at all until its component parts are determined to be "top drawer." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

HAHA...well said!

[Zoolok]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rickooko:

This statement really worry me a lot.

May be i am wrong but what i feel is SI has introduced a hardcore scoring control code in order to balancing the overall scoring over a league season. (or 100 matches for example)

What this code does is limiting the possibility for AI cracking super human tactic or any high/low scoring issue caused by the match engine.

That means, in a big picture (lets say 100 matches again), the average scoring rate per match in game will reflect the data you can collected in real. I dont know what the figure is but lets say 2.5.

Then, lets say a player create a super "effective" AI cracking tactic which can easily creating 40+ chance per games and grab 4~5 goals per match. However, under this balance hardcore code introduced, no matter how many good chance your tactic can create, you can still score an average of 2.5 goals at most in, "100 matches" or the like.

For me, i prefer the old match engine which would allow some high scoring tactic to score crazy, rather then a hardcore balancing code to control the overall scoring rate in an unrealistic way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, and now it's finally obvious that statistics are all that matters. Everything else is secondary, and it's ruining the game, taking all fun out of it.

Also, people can no longer say "it's your tactic", because we now know it isn't - it's the "tuning" (cheating!) of the match engine!

[Rickooko]

So in short, my assumption is SI has introduced some meta-code in 8.0.1 in order to give a Realistic scoring rate/stat compare to real life, which Unrealistically control the match result regardless of your tactical switch, player quality, chances created or any action during a match.

I will be perfectly happy if SI can come here to totally deny this assumption tho.

[eXistenZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

We havent got a match engine patch ready that we are "sitting on". Its work in progress, because we want it to be top drawer.

So rather than promise something we may not be able to deliver I'm stating that it will be definitely included in the data update.

Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What has changed? when the game came out, two weeks later we had a beta-patch. another 3 weeks later there was the first official patch.

You know about the problem sine the official patch came out, a month ago. Have you a whole month been "sitting upon it"? And now you are going to sit another 1.5 month "sitting on it".

Well look out it isn't to get flat be february

Just be honest and say in the past month you didn't do a **** except probably make christmas decorations.

What are the working hours of SI people? from 12.00 to 13.00 with a coffee break in it?

[delibey]

I don't think there's anything to deny. It's already been said that "we tune each part of the match engine so that over 100s of games, the average no of goals/shots on target etc is close to real life". That's perfectly alright. The problem is the match engine produces more easy one-on-one chances than it should. Players get all kinds of chances during a match but never this many completely free, unmarked one-on-ones with the ball under control. SI will have to change the coding of offensive part of the game to reflect the number of chances IRL, or at least be closer to it(this is a game after all).

[LA_cat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by idafc:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

We havent got a match engine patch ready that we are "sitting on". Its work in progress, because we want it to be top drawer.

So rather than promise something we may not be able to deliver I'm stating that it will be definitely included in the data update.

Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd recommend, next year, not releasing the game at all until its component parts are determined to be "top drawer." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They released the game in October simply because they want to release it before CM. The game itself was nowhere near ready to be honest, even after the 1st patch. I have stopped playing and I do not think I will play FM from 2009 onwards but I do have to thank them for the fun I enjoyed playing fm2005-2007.

[Ter]

eXistenZ - I think you underestimate the complexity of the game and potential knock on effects changing something may cause. A lot of this tweaking takes a lot of time as every time something is tweaked it needs to be tested which takes quite a long time.

[Rickooko]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by delibey:

I don't think there's anything to deny. It's already been said that "we tune each part of the match engine so that over 100s of games, the average no of goals/shots on target etc is close to real life". That's perfectly alright. The problem is the match engine produces more easy one-on-one chances than it should. Players get all kinds of chances during a match but never this many completely free, unmarked one-on-ones with the ball under control. SI will have to change the coding of offensive part of the game to reflect the number of chances IRL, or at least be closer to it(this is a game after all). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That can be different as Paul's statement be read in different way:

1. The assumption i have made: (And this go all wrong)

Scoring rate meta-code control match outcome in 100s match --> overrun whatever you do during the match, whatever good chances you create in match wont score.

[ie. Hardcore code control realistic balance scoring stats --> overrun match action]

2. The way the match engine should go: (which is not happening now)

The match engine is "tune" realistially in numbers of good chances created, and, you can score in realistic manner. There is a good balance of number of chance create and result in a realistic 100s match scoring stats.

[ie. Well tune match engine -> in result of realistic balance scoring stats]

Surely we prefer the later one but what happening in 8.0.1 is the first one. But all these are just my assumption by observation of playing the game.

[eXistenZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter:

eXistenZ - I think you underestimate the complexity of the game and potential knock on effects changing something may cause. A lot of this tweaking takes a lot of time as every time something is tweaked it needs to be tested which takes quite a long time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But it's your own ****ing game. You made it. so it is only as complex as you wanted it to be. And if it is too complex, don't bring it out when it is only half-ready.

[rich_barnes]

i bet SI curse the day they decided to include the 2D match engine in there games, its the only thing that spoils the game, none of the people who i know that play fm watch it anyway.

[Tenji]

SI has to work in the assumption that every atack doesnt produce a one on one or a shot, most attacks die on the defenders, on the other hand one on ones 90% of the time with good players are a goal, the AI cheats openly, its bloody frustating to watch your team dominate and lose, the same way im tired of the " play in 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 or die " mentality this engine has, defensive tactics have way to much possesion and chances, Specialy when the AI uses them.

i dont see big teams changing tacs every week or ferguson busting his balls to create a super tactic, look at chelsea and grant, the guy sucks , his career has been a drag but now his doing ok at chelsea, is it because of his super tactic ? hell no, its because he has some of the best players, thats how FM was before FM2008 and now its a mess because most ppl are saving before games so they can avoid the AI cheat.

[...rich...]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rich_barnes:

i bet SI curse the day they decided to include the 2D match engine in there games, its the only thing that spoils the game, none of the people who i know that play fm watch it anyway. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree, the 2D match engine has been perfect for FM over the years, and if it is ever changed to a 3D match engine, then it would be a game that I personally would never buy.

However, I agree that something needs to be done about the current match engine, and that making people wait until February to enjoy their game is totally unacceptable.

[George Graham]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tenji:

SI has to work in the assumption that every atack doesnt produce a one on one or a shot, most attacks die on the defenders, on the other hand one on ones 90% of the time with good players are a goal, the AI cheats openly, its bloody frustating to watch your team dominate and lose, the same way im tired of the " play in 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 or die " mentality this engine has, defensive tactics have way to much possesion and chances, Specialy when the AI uses them.

i dont see big teams changing tacs every week or ferguson busting his balls to create a super tactic, look at chelsea and grant, the guy sucks , his career has been a drag but now his doing ok at chelsea, is it because of his super tactic ? hell no, its because he has some of the best players, thats how FM was before FM2008 and now its a mess because most ppl are saving before games so they can avoid the AI cheat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree- the balance between tactics and your players ability has been unrealistically biased too much towards the tactical side for some time. Add to that a pretty poor toolset when it comes to designing tactics and we have a problem.

Look at the Spurs-Arsenal game at the weekend- Ramos couldnt have organised Spurs better imo and Spurs managed to stifle Arsenal for large parts of the game, but in end quality prevailed as Arsenal took their chances and capitalised on probably the only two lapses Spurs made all game, whereas Spurs did not.

You just dont get this in FM where quality will inevitably tend to be deciding factor even in very tight games.

[Fred_the_Red]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

Yes we have been looking into it, and other issues flagged on these forums. The plan is for there to be an update including an updated match engine sometime after the next transfer window closes.

Cheers,

Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

We havent got a match engine patch ready that we are "sitting on". Its work in progress, because we want it to be top drawer.

So rather than promise something we may not be able to deliver I'm stating that it will be definitely included in the data update.

Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh god no I thought after 2 months of moaning, threads upon threads of problems, hours and hours of workd put in by users to catch bugs and post them in the bug forums that something would have been done by now. To be honest there is no point in making an update patch at all now, totally no point what so ever. Whats the point in waiting till Feburary to start a game? What is the point? The game is done by then. Might as well wait for FM09. You guys at SI might as well concentrate on FM09 and make that better. There is no point trying to fix 08 when you could be doing FM09. When FM09 comes out it will be the same as FM08, low qaulity, unplayable game, waste of money. Really sick of this now, I just wanted a playable game thats all.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rickooko:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

No sorry I cant see how on earth you conclude that "the game is cheating"! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry Paul maybe it is hard word to say...

but we would have scores like 15-3, or 10-0 then, what I want to say the game just prevents those scores, which is good in my opinoum...but.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cheating is totally the wrong word for that. The game doesnt "prevent" any score, but we tune each part of the match engine so that over 100s of games, the average no of goals/shots on target etc is close to real life.

I think when talking about these issues the key is "quality of chance". I think if there is re-balancing to be done going forward then it starts with that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This statement really worry me a lot.

May be i am wrong but what i feel is SI has introduced a hardcore scoring control code in order to balancing the overall scoring over a league season. (or 100 matches for example)

What this code does is limiting the possibility for AI cracking super human tactic or any high/low scoring issue caused by the match engine.

That means, in a big picture (lets say 100 matches again), the average scoring rate per match in game will reflect the data you can collected in real. I dont know what the figure is but lets say 2.5.

Then, lets say a player create a super "effective" AI cracking tactic which can easily creating 40+ chance per games and grab 4~5 goals per match. However, under this balance hardcore code introduced, no matter how many good chance your tactic can create, you can still score an average of 2.5 goals at most in, "100 matches" or the like.

For me, i prefer the old match engine which would allow some high scoring tactic to score crazy, rather then a hardcore balancing code to control the overall scoring rate in an unrealistic way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This suggest here that there is PROBLEM with the match engine. You guys havn't deny this have you? So the engine is basically rigged so within a season you get X amount of goals? just like real life? No matter what tactics, player quality you buy, subs, team talk you use, number of chances you create. You will always score x amount of goals per season tuning you guys have put in.

Complete ****ed at this, I mean SI always said there is no cheating there is no AI rigging but from your statement there is. You use the words 'prevent' 'stops' 'balance' to mask the fact it is cheating.

[ssstupido]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

Yes we have been looking into it, and other issues flagged on these forums. The plan is for there to be an update including an updated match engine sometime after the next transfer window closes.

Cheers,

Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

aint it funny? first answer on the topic was kinda "there is nothing wrong, change your tactics, everything is fine"

it isnt after much forum mourning that SI finally concedes us the chance that, maybe, there is a problem with shots/goals ratio.

well, you should play your own game sometimes.

[BHAMILTON]

This complaint is SOOOOOOOOOOO FREAKING OVERBLOWN.....Yes, it is an issue but it just a slight problem.....If you are not creating super tactics and super teams this problem is barely noticable...

I am almost done with my 1st season, and i am getting realistic results, and realistic shots for the most part....there are some games where it seems like there are a too many scoring chances but it does not happen every game....i have a feeling that the people who are complaining are the same people who like it when their strikers score 50- 60 goals a year....

[Kevin_M]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BHAMILTON:

This complaint is SOOOOOOOOOOO FREAKING OVERBLOWN.....Yes, it is an issue but it just a slight problem.....If you are not creating super tactics and super teams this problem is barely noticable...

I am almost done with my 1st season, and i am getting realistic results, and realistic shots for the most part....there are some games where it seems like there are a too many scoring chances but it does not happen every game....i have a feeling that the people who are complaining are the same people who like it when their strikers score 50- 60 goals a year.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So just because you've had one season with realistic results/shots "for the most part", you can speak for everyone? This problem isn't oveblown at all; if it was, this thread would only be four pages long and not fourteen....

[BHAMILTON]

So let me ask you this....do you try and create your own super tactics? are u the type of player who edits Ronaldo into Coventry City in 2007..I bet you are bcse that is what causes this issue....

Merry xmas by the way

[thebigman1985]

this game vastly annoys me sometimes but its just that, a game

i think to suceed sometimes u have to detach yourself from true realities which is hard and work out how to beat the game, which is very hard imo!

with the immense amount of data in the game and variables there is bound to be anomalies, but i hope they are recified by patch 8.0.2

[ssstupido]

i just installed patch 8.0.1

first game was Levante - Real Madrid

first action, levante kicks off, some passes, the ball goes to the world renown scorer Sisi and he shots gently over Casillas to score 1-0

10 shots later, aguero manages to tie the game, and later he scores 1-2.

at the beggining of the first half, raul scores 1-3, and that shot was the 25th on the match, of those 18 were on target.

ten minutes later, a levante player gets sacked, and 2 minutes later, incredibly, the lonely levante striker (sisi again, you know him) manages to get past Pepe, Diarra and Ramos with his whopping 11 points on dribbling and 12 pace and acceleration, and finally Ramos stops him and the ref says its penalty.

although the striker shot with fear, he scored, so, at the minute 85, levante had 2 shots, of those, 2 were on target. i had 32 shots, 22 on target. My strkers were aguero and raul. Levante striker was Sisi. Score was 2-3.

the game ended 2-3 although i had at least 3 more clear chances. of course, MOM went to levante GK.

the problem is not that this happens. the problem is this happening 4 out of every 5 matches.

SI, sort it out already. do not pretend that this problem doesnt exist.

[Kevin_M]

What are you babbling on about? What is a "super tactic?"

I play FM "normally" - i.e. start a game, join a team, look at my squad and build a tactic I think suits them. That's it. I'm pretty sure that's the way most people play, isn't it? I've never used an editor, either, it defeats the object of the game IMO.

[Zoolok]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BHAMILTON:

This complaint is SOOOOOOOOOOO FREAKING OVERBLOWN.....Yes, it is an issue but it just a slight problem.....If you are not creating super tactics and super teams this problem is barely noticable...

I am almost done with my 1st season, and i am getting realistic results, and realistic shots for the most part....there are some games where it seems like there are a too many scoring chances but it does not happen every game....i have a feeling that the people who are complaining are the same people who like it when their strikers score 50- 60 goals a year.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're not reading what PaulC has said... The match engine will tweak the results, so that amount of scored goals is the same as in real life.

This means that if you create a super tactic the match engine won't let you score.

But, what it also means is that, if you suck at football, the match engine will help you score, so that in the end you get a realistic amount of goals.

And that sucks.

[Kevin_M]

D'oh, forgot to include quoted text in post above.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So let me ask you this....do you try and create your own super tactics? are u the type of player who edits Ronaldo into Coventry City in 2007..I bet you are bcse that is what causes this issue.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Fred_the_Red]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BHAMILTON:

This complaint is SOOOOOOOOOOO FREAKING OVERBLOWN.....Yes, it is an issue but it just a slight problem..... If you are not creating super tactics and super teams this problem is barely noticable...

I am almost done with my 1st season, and i am getting realistic results, and realistic shots for the most part....there are some games where it seems like there are a too many scoring chances but it does not happen every game....i have a feeling that the people who are complaining are the same people who like it when their strikers score 50- 60 goals a year.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So your suggestion is not to create tactics that win you games but to make tactics that produces 'average' number of goals?

[gambleTL]

just an example....a real match at the weekend

Blackburn 0-1 Chelsea

Cole 22

chelsea shots = 11

on target = 8 off target =2

Blackburn shots=18

on target= 9 off target= 9

possession= chel 48% blackb =52%

And chelsea won and blackburn had 18 shots.

sometimes teams don't always score all their attempts

just enjoy the game !

[Pipo2525]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gambleTL:

just an example....a real match at the weekend

Blackburn 0-1 Chelsea

Cole 22

chelsea shots = 11

on target = 8 off target =2

Blackburn shots=18

on target= 9 off target= 9

possession= chel 48% blackb =52%

And chelsea won and blackburn had 18 shots.

sometimes teams don't always score all their attempts

just enjoy the game ! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your using one game as an example though! I am having the same problem in virtually every game i play

[Fred_the_Red]

^ Exactly. If you can pull up the stats for Chelsea and Blackburn throughout the season and every game both teams have 20 shots on target then I will believe you but its not the case.

[totti_is_god]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gambleTL:

just an example....a real match at the weekend

Blackburn 0-1 Chelsea

Cole 22

chelsea shots = 11

on target = 8 off target =2

Blackburn shots=18

on target= 9 off target= 9

possession= chel 48% blackb =52%

And chelsea won and blackburn had 18 shots.

sometimes teams don't always score all their attempts

just enjoy the game ! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Many people are putting a lot of work into understanding the basis of the problem here, a one-off real life example (which, incidentally, says little of the quality of the chances) can hardly be used to prove a point.

[T-Bag]

What a surprise, no patch until February ! who would have guessed that !!

Then we just have to wait another 6 months or so until we have to pay for the next broken version.

There is too many shots in EVERY single game across the board, never mind a lack of goals from shots.

[gambleTL]

well thats the game......get over it !!

[eXistenZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gambleTL:

well thats the game......get over it !! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So if you are accused of murder and get the death penalty, while you have done nothing done, are you going to say "that's life, i will get over it"?

We don't need people here who are to lazy/stupid to protest.

[gambleTL]

Its a frigging game, how can you compare it to a death penalty haha

If you don't like the game, why not sell it. Quit whining because all your doing is ruining everyone elses experience