Patch 8.0.1. Shots to Goal Ratio not fixed - SHOCKING!! SI Please answer - believe to be related to Closing down and Long shots bug

McDoul · November 30, 2007

Question is, will we see a fix before February?

EpiC2z · December 1, 2007

this game was made to replicate a real life soccer management game.

slowing down the tempo will increase the chances of beating a goalie in 1 on 1 is totally irrelevent.

when you're 1on1 with a keeper. a couple of things come to light irl, composure, technique and abit of luck. not but slowing down the tempo. who gives a hoot bout tempo when you're 1on1. imaging yourself in a 1on1 situation, will you still think of tempo? no, its all about the players capabilities and choices. not slowing down the tempo, cmon. this is atrocious.

what about at times, when you have a 2v1 situation? instead of squaring the ball to the open player. the player will instead shoot. irregardless of whether he misses or not, will the stats of that single player come into play? decisions, composure etc.

im sure irl if the player did shoot and miss, he would get hell from the manager. my point is, its shocking how SI sees the game to be AT TIMES. then again its still a great game.

hope im not contradicting myself.

Dart1234 · December 1, 2007

Drives me mad. Losing in the cup like this, what a way to to out.

Lyvean · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

The thinking is using slower tempo increases a 1 on 1 being scored as this allows players to think there to play the ball or how to score pass the keeper. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Congratulation. You have post some of the most idiotic drivel I have seen in my life concerning this game.

Unbelievable to what lengths would someone go to defend the game. What you say is so illogical that it actually hurt my eyes.

Mitja · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dart1234:

Drives me mad. Losing in the cup like this, what a way to to out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol, you were playing at to high tempo,

Kriss · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The thinking is using slower tempo increases a 1 on 1 being scored as this allows players to think there to play the ball or how to score pass the keeper </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think you should use the word thinking in conjunction with that sentence.

If indeed it is a sentence.

Mitja · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lyvean:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

The thinking is using slower tempo increases a 1 on 1 being scored as this allows players to think there to play the ball or how to score pass the keeper. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Congratulation. You have post some of the most idiotic drivel I have seen in my life concerning this game.

Unbelievable to what lengths would someone go to defend the game. What you say is so illogical that it actually hurt my eyes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I realy don't undersand that thinking...

Mitja · December 1, 2007

what's tempo got to do with 1/1 chances.

I don't want to be rude but you must be very stupid (or a genious), to think that tempo and scoring chances are linked.

Themistofelis · December 1, 2007

I think from the replies of the Devs that they don't want to turn 1 to 1 into real chances but help the AI decrease their number.

This is totally unuccaptable.

Tempo and tactics have nothing to do with 1 to 1s and anything less than 80% success is just stupid.

nreo · December 1, 2007

Ultimately, this IS a problem with the game. Call it what you like, but for me if this ISN'T a bug, then its a complete shambles of a match engine. Honestly, bar the closing down bug, the match engine pre ANY patch was decent, beautiful goals, scrappy goals, they were happening for me. With the beta patch, the closing down bug was fixed and I was really enjoying the game despite the finances bug which i could live with because it was a challenge somewhat lol.

But after the official patch you cannot at all, blame tactics for the amount of chances not being converted. AT THE END OF THE DAY, if your striker is in a ONE ON ONE vs the goalie, it boils down to 2 stats, finishing, and composure. Thats ALL. Don't tell me that my tactics need to be tweaked for the lad to bury it. Nearly all my goals are scrappy rebounds, my beautiful goals come from my midfielders with their 1/30 long shots flying in.

Further to that, if it IS my tactics (as i sincerely doubt, but hey, its only a game right? im considering playing deep 4-5-1, more midfielders = more longshots = more goals!) then this game is not a simulation of football management or of football match at all. the one off match where u miss everything is fair enough, but I do not turn on match of the day at 11pm CET to watch Wigan Athletic blazing over the bar 35 shots. I'd be watching it all night,the only match where there will be a total of 50 shots, of which 40% are off target, are my local indoor matches on friday. SO.. if the producers of this game fail to realise this is a problem (and apologies if u have, i haven't read through the 1.1 million posts on the matter) then this game should be renamed Arcade Pinball Manager 2008, because slide that highlight speed up to full and you'll have the ball going pinball on you, amusing.

P.S

Dart1234, I cracked up at your screenshot, I know the feeling.

SmurfDude · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

what's tempo got to do with 1/1 chances.

I don't want to be rude but you must be very stupid (or a genious), to think that tempo and scoring chances are linked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tempo should not have ANYTHING to do with 1 vs 1 chances. Tempo only matters for the buold up to that chance. For some unknown reason we have a few ignorant people on the forum who can't seem to accept the fact the match engine isn't up to scratch.

If you read the hints, then composure, and finishing are the most vital attributes for 1 vs 1. I bought Anguero, one of the best strikers on the game. Guess what? He still blasts every shot directly at the keeper. As does Rooney, as does Tevez, a s does Ronaldo. A strikers stats seem totally irrelevant.

It's unacceptable, and the match engine is simply awful thanks to this, and the problem where players head/shoot the ball straight out of play when they are on the byline.

Dave C · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Themistofelis:

anything less than 80% success is just stupid. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Reality must be pretty stupid then...

Mitja · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Themistofelis:

I think from the replies of the Devs that they don't want to turn 1 to 1 into real chances but help the AI decrease their number.

This is totally unuccaptable.

Tempo and tactics have nothing to do with 1 to 1s and anything less than 80% success is just stupid. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

80% c'mon!!! you have guys like Henry at the moment, who just can't score, even on 1/1 chances.

I would say it's 50-50 to score, 1-1 with GK.

no it's not the biggest problem that those chances are not scored, it's more how many of those are created (obvious defence problem) and super keepers.

Themistofelis · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

80% c'mon!!! you have guys like Henry at the moment, who just can't score, even on 1/1 chances.

I would say it's 50-50 to score, 1-1 with GK.

no it's not the biggest problem that those chances are not scored, it's more how many of those are created (obvious defence problem) and super keepers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing is that when i have a tactic that produces 10 one to ones per game even on 50% thats 5 goals (not to mention goals scored with other ways) this equals with the infamus "supertactis" and thats what the devs want to avoid.

In fm07 it was very easy to score goals from corners , now many of them are called "fauls".

There is a costand efford to reduce gamer's ability to succees and the result is the new match engine (not to mention other "smart" staff like "chairman" selling the best of your players)

What we have now is that we fail not because we are doing something wrong but because game engine is seted up to provide a "challenge" .

I bet my rear that the "fix" for this will be another "smart" way or reducing the number of 1 to 1s rather than scoring more of them.

Kriss · December 1, 2007

Real life stats do get published, it's nothing like 50%

davhislop · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dart1234:

Drives me mad. Losing in the cup like this, what a way to to out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

is there anyway around this or do we have to grin and bare it when it happines??

McDoul · December 1, 2007

I always play a slow passing game personally o with tempo as low as 4 clicks up I's grind my team to a halt if playing slower, yet Torres keeps shooting straight at keeper.

Dave C · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kriss:

Real life stats do get published, it's nothing like 50% </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One-on-ones, from OPTA and other groups stats, are about 30-35% at best.

McDoul · December 1, 2007

So if real life stats are about 30-35% at best then SI need to reduce number of 1on1's?

To increase the rate would lead to uber scores again, no?

December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

One on ones. Actually I agree players should be more clinical and keepers are too effective. I also believe there are too many due to defensive lines being a little slow to drop back under pressure. This is being looked into for FML beta initially, and if we can improve it without detracting from the overall FM experience then the fixes will be used for a future patch as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's nice to have some official confirmation from SI that they agree this is a problem with the match engine.

Now can the people who've been saying that it's down to tactics have a bit of humility about the situation instead of being dismissive of everyone who has this issue?

The only things that should matter when a player is one on one with a keeper are Composure, Finishing, and Morale.

Tempo, mentality, time wasting, etc, should not come into play at all. These things come into play when creating scoring chances, but they shouldn't affect the chance itself.

SmurfDude · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by McDoul:

So if real life stats are about 30-35% at best then SI need to reduce number of 1on1's?

To increase the rate would lead to uber scores again, no? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it's a mixture of the two.

These high quality chances need to be cut down drastically for a start, and at the same time strikers need to convert a higher percentage of them.

Breaking down the defense is far too easy. My strikers get past defenders and are clean through on goal roughly 5 times each game.

So perhaps the root of this problem starts at closing down/marking?

I'd like to see more variety in the shots my strikers have when they are in a 1 vs 1 chance. As it stands they will shoot straight at the keeper roughly 95% of the time, and the other 5% is made up of either a chip over him, or the ball will go through the keeper.

I'd like to see players try to run around the keeper, or try to slot it in to one of the corners.

Fred_the_Red · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lyvean:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

The thinking is using slower tempo increases a 1 on 1 being scored as this allows players to think there to play the ball or how to score pass the keeper. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Congratulation. You have post some of the most idiotic drivel I have seen in my life concerning this game.

Unbelievable to what lengths would someone go to defend the game. What you say is so illogical that it actually hurt my eyes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

haha incase you didnt know I made this thread. I never said tempo will help I said the thinking behind it I.e. the theory that I came across somewhere in this thread that tempo helps players to make better decisions to score 1 - 1. Higher tempo means players rush chances.

But eh who really cares now. There is a problem with the shots to goal ratio this thread is full of users posting their experiences.

I just accept it now and move on.

One tip I will pass on, lowering tempo, men and creative freedom does help convert chances. There is another thread which debates whether attributes is that important in the match engine when a centre defender plays as a striker he is still able to score goals like a striker would.

TopToffee · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Congratulation. You have post some of the most idiotic drivel I have seen in my life concerning this game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

while this may or may not be true in general, on this one point, he IS right...

you create better chances with a slower tempo - the team passes the ball round more, and looks for better openings, rather than rushing the ball from back to front, and taking the first opportunity to shoot that comes along.

gbmiranda · December 1, 2007

i'm waiting for a patch 8.0.2 for this week SI

Fred_the_Red · December 1, 2007

They wont be one.

The next one is in Feb and most that is updated transfers.

This field intentionally l · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Congratulation. You have post some of the most idiotic drivel I have seen in my life concerning this game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this a challenge?

PaulC · December 1, 2007

Tell you what. Let's try and get to the bottom of it together rather than fight.

If we take the position that its tactics related - can people post answers to the following:

- Are you suffering too many wasted chances and averageing 20+ shots per game?

- Can you give us an overview of your tactics in terms of formation and team/player instructions - eg mentality, depth, creative freedom, tempo etc.

Then if we get enough info from enough users maybe we can find a pattern!

Paul

SmurfDude · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

Tell you what. Let's try and get to the bottom of it together rather than fight.

If we take the position that its tactics related - can people post answers to the following:

- Are you suffering too many wasted chances and averageing 20+ shots per game?

- Can you give us an overview of your tactics in terms of formation and team/player instructions - eg mentality, depth, creative freedom, tempo etc.

Then if we get enough info from enough users maybe we can find a pattern!

Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personally I don't see how barrages of 1 vs 1 chances being created/missed can be a fault with tactics, but as a fan of FM I do want to help solve it, so I'll happily give info.

I average well above 20 shots per game, and the number of them which I'd consider "wasted" is also very high.

I am Man utd, and I play very attacking as well as fast paced, just as they do in real life.

Formation

Tactics

I dominate most teams with ease. I have the AMC & FC swapping position to make opposition man marking less effective. They are often clean through on goal, 1 vs 1 with the keeper. But as I've said, they waste almost every chance.

Unicorns are real · December 1, 2007

OFF TOPIC (sorry) â€” Smurf, what skin is that, mate? I like it.

alutac13 · December 1, 2007

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nukehim47:

I have never seen the match engine so bad

I actually thought the game was pretty good with the beta patch but as what normally happens, new problems are created.

It is very common for me to be having 30 shots per game (which in itself is unrealistic) and more than half on target. Despite all these shots I am only wining by the odd goal which is ridicolous.

Don't tell me it's my tactics because it was working fine in the beta patch.

Don't tell me it's because my team are taking long shots from midfield because most the shots are in fact one on ones with the keeper.

Please can somebody explain why it seems that no conventional goals are scored after the patch!!?? My strikers have about 10 shots each per game (Berbatov, Gyan, Aguero, Huntelaar) and they are pretty easy chances but I am lucky if they put one of them in.

The trouble is the only goals that go in since the patch are complete flukes, it's actually almost impossible to score normal goals.

I really can't beleive how bad it has become, I think I will go back to tbe beta patch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think the match engine is terrible but agree with some of what this poster says. I am coming pretty much where i would expect to in the league (6th with everton) but almost all goals come from the ball bobbling around and someone hitting it in and have yet to see a goal from the numerous 1 on 1 chances. In previous versions i would be annoyed with strikers for missing now i it's just expected. Also would like to see some rounding the keeper, chips attempted as mentioned by a previous poster.

T-Bag · December 1, 2007

Why doesn't someone who is suffering from the problem upload their tactics for others to try too ? I'm not really getting this problem but would give some other peoples tactics a whirl to see if it happens on mine.

Mitja · December 1, 2007