Defence-First Football Tactics (UPDATED Feb 20, 2024).

[crusadertsar]

On 14/03/2024 at 17:06, poma said:

Have you used any Pi's?

The only PIs I use are "cut inside" on left winger and "dribble more" on Libero.

[Nick_CB]

I'm using a medium block and having success with a middle team 

[jamesh123]

Great thread, always look out for your posts as they're very informative and always a good read! Was just wondering what you think of the system I have at the moment? Been trying to get a 4-4-2 going, and with my main goalscorer getting injured I had to tweak a little. CB's both have 9 pace, so a high line for compression with a mid block is out of the equation, and we've not been bad this season, missing out on championship group by 1 point. But found our defending can be pretty passive at times, and attacks our pretty stale 90% of the time. This system is newly tweaked, but wanted to see if there were any glaring errors in it from a set up point of view. 

Edited March 16 by jamesh123

[ADZ_]

14 hours ago, jamesh123 said:

Great thread, always look out for your posts as they're very informative and always a good read! Was just wondering what you think of the system I have at the moment? Been trying to get a 4-4-2 going, and with my main goalscorer getting injured I had to tweak a little. CB's both have 9 pace, so a high line for compression with a mid block is out of the equation, and we've not been bad this season, missing out on championship group by 1 point. But found our defending can be pretty passive at times, and attacks our pretty stale 90% of the time. This system is newly tweaked, but wanted to see if there were any glaring errors in it from a set up point of view. 

Just an opinion but I don't tend to worry too much about pace and acceleration attributes if I want to play a high line (obviously if they are say 5 or below then that would be an issue), I'm looking at the defenders anticipation first of all. Look at Pepe at Porto, the guy in his 40's but never seems to get sprinted past, it's because of his excellent positioning and reading of the game. My defenders on my save with Walsall aren't the quickest but manage fine with a high line as their mental stats are pretty good for L2 level.

[poma]

21 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

The only PIs I use are "cut inside" on left winger and "dribble more" on Libero.

Thank you sir

[mikcheck]

7 horas atrás, ADZ_ disse:

Just an opinion but I don't tend to worry too much about pace and acceleration attributes if I want to play a high line (obviously if they are say 5 or below then that would be an issue), I'm looking at the defenders anticipation first of all. Look at Pepe at Porto, the guy in his 40's but never seems to get sprinted past, it's because of his excellent positioning and reading of the game. My defenders on my save with Walsall aren't the quickest but manage fine with a high line as their mental stats are pretty good for L2 level.

 I like to play with normal defensive line and a mid/low block. In that case I don't care too much about pace and acceleration, except for the ones I want to attack the space. Positioning, antecipation and concentration are really important for for defenders tho.

However if I played  with a higher line, I'd definitely want my defenders to have pace and accelaration.

Edited March 17 by mikcheck

[OYTNANAK]

Off to a good start with my Everton side going into the 2nd season! My approach is aggressive mid-block paired with fast attack.

I am happy to not dominate the possession of the ball, but still aim to disrupt the opponents' attempt to circulate the ball and progress the ball forward. My side currently won the most headers in the premier league, although the header win rate is 4th with 55%. The win rate deflates a bit as my Everton side cross the ball a lot.

The biggest result is obviously the victory against Manchester City at Etihad. For this match I went with cautious mentality, but the TIs are the same. Vitaliy Mykolenko was a double agent, subbed in on 60th minute and got sent off after a two-footed tackle on Kovacic. Changed my formation to 4-1-2-1-1 from that point to protect the middle, since Pep Guardiola played with 3-2-5 in settled possession.

My tactic is shown below, the PIs:

- Shoot more often on the striker (Calvert-Lewin and Beto)

- Dribble more on Onana

- Take more risks on Garner

For this season, I start to switch Danjuma and McNeil based on which side of opponent's full back is weaker/less attacking. My aim is to let Danjuma 1v1 his side's full back a lot and let McNeil support the team more by tracking the more attacking full back. It was very effective when I put McNeil to deal with Trippier and let Danjuma destroy Dan Burn. The role of both players stays the same, Danjuma with IW(at) and McNeil with WM(su).

I set my own attacking corner tactic and across two seasons, attacking corner has been fruitful.

In this save, I set my recruitment focus based on my version of team DNA, which are (yellow is 12 to 14, green is 15 and up):

Besides that, I am aiming to arm this Everton side with physically imposing, hard working players. Shown by a couple of recruitments that I've done, which are:

 

 

Here is the result of my first season (with 10 points deduction):

The improved quality of the squad is really showing in my 2nd season.

Edited March 19 by OYTNANAK

[crusadertsar]

@OYTNANAK Very well thought out post! I can clearly see your long-term plan and how your team is following it. That's exactly how you can do well in FM, find a logical system and stick with it longterm. Thanks for sharing mate 

[Fox-7-]

@crusadertsar I followed your topic at the beginning and continued to read silently, now after 3 in-game seasons I find myself making my small contribution. Being a good old Italian boy for whom a 1-0 hard win is almost porn , I too am following the Defense-First approach on FM24 this year, and from season to season the results have gotten better and better. I'm coaching Kilmarnock in the SPL, and with this philosophy we achieved a 4th place in the league in the first season, a 3rd in the second and now in the third year, also thanks to a bad run of Rangers, we managed to grab the 2nd place (and reaching the last 16 stage in Europa League in our first partecipation), thus having the possibility of trying to qualify for the Champions League 26/27.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

With the little money available, my recruiting focus was obviously on players in the most defensive roles (and to find an effective TF), and in fact we managed to reduce the number of goals conceded year after year, making a notable improvement, going from 42 in the 24/25 season to the latter's 28, and reducing the number of defeats from 9 to only 4, being the best team after Celtic in practically every statistic regarding the defensive phase. However, our balanced approach allows us to be in the top 4-5 places also in offensive statistics, resulting in an effective all-round team.

 

This is my standard tactic, to which I make small adjustments here and there based on the opponents and to adapt during matches (I try to do micro management on every possible aspect of the tactics and off the pitch, and in fact I'm only in my third season with the only save I run since the game was released).

On the other hand, weaker teams are starting to play against me in an increasingly conservative manner, and the lack of flair and technique in my squad at high levels has made itself to be felt: of the 4 defeats, 2 comes agsinst Livingstone, and we also drew some matches against teams that were inferior on paper like St. Johnstone, struggling to break down compact defenses (evidently the Defence-First approach also works for AI ). In fact, the next step will be to recruit players with a bit of flair and technique, now that I have an established base of defensive players on which I can count. Big fan of the DW-s role, I love the work he does on the wing and how as soon as we get the ball he bursts forward to beat his opponent. I often use adapted or re-trained full-backs in that position, and also in the WM position on the other flank I like to play an adapted CM/DM there

 

I use a more defensive version against the two big teams Celtic and Rangers (and in European campaign as being one of the weakest team in the competition)

For the first time I managed to remain undefeated against these two teams (apart from the 2-0 defeat in the last championship match which was totally irrelevant for the ranking, in which I gave space to some backup players).

A question: against them I often managed to contain them with a draw, also managing to limit their xG production, in a couple of games I managed to come back from an initial disadvantage by modifying something to make the tactic a little more offensive, while for two times I have suffered a comeback when I actually have a two-goal lead (and in the 3-2 victory against Celtic I went 3-1 up and risked conceding the equalizer several times, 3-1 win vs Rangers comes with two late goals after 90th minute). How can I defend better when they start to go all-in (obviously also considering the disparity of forces on the field, which is still notable)? in these matches there was a sudden switch where they started attacking me throwing me everyone and everything without changing their position on the pitch (it's like "ok se are two goals down, let's start to play seriously" ), and without me being able to contain them in any way, nor by making tactical changes, nor in mentality, nor substitutions.

 

My game-plan literally improved when in the second season I managed to buy Hornby to play him as a TF-s, most of the goals happen by triggering him with crosses but he also does a great job in involving his teammates in early phases of play, with a good contribution also in terms of assist

Edited March 25 by Fox-7-

[Los_Culés]

@Fox-7- awesome post. I have just started playing FM24 and thinking of doing something similar for a few seasons until my team gets better (this is my favourite FM approach, start managing some obscure team, focus on defence and then gradually progress to something more possessional). Do you use any specific player instructions? Also I suppose your WM - SU is right footed correct? Would left footed player also work?

[Fox-7-]

10 ore fa, Los_Culés ha scritto:

@Fox-7- awesome post. I have just started playing FM24 and thinking of doing something similar for a few seasons until my team gets better (this is my favourite FM approach, start managing some obscure team, focus on defence and then gradually progress to something more possessional). Do you use any specific player instructions? Also I suppose your WM - SU is right footed correct? Would left footed player also work?

Thanks for the reply @Los_Culés. Yeah I use some PIs:

RIFB/FB,LFB cross more often from deep aiming the TF

SV: take more risks, get further forward, move into channels (only in the standard version)

AM: move into channels, take more risks, dribble more

WM (you're right, I use a right-footed player): sit narrower, hold position, cut inside with ball.

The idea with my WM Is to have him in a hybrid position between covering for the SVs and FBa pairing with the DM to make a bit lopsided 3-2 rest defence, and supporting the attack by overloading the left side, luring the opponente leaving AM and DW on the right in a more 1vs1 situation when the play is switched on the right flank. I think a left-footed player could also work, i believe he'll just have a more limited natural passing range only towards the right side of the pitch (maybe the trait "used the outside of the foot" could help in this?)

Instead of morphing into a more possessional team going through the seasons, I'm trying to build a club DNA to the maximum extent of a Defence-First approach: I want to become an unpleasant and exhausting team to face in matches, a sort of a Simeone's Atletico and a Wimbledon's Crazy Gang mix 

I'm very selective in my player recruitment, above all in strenght, jumping reach, bravery, aggression, determination and workrate

-Back 4 players (+DMs) around 190cm or above 

-TF: you can tell by looking at Hornby

-Other players: >180 cm (the only actual exepction in my squad Is Lumeka, but in the very first season I have literally no money and I was in desperate need of a player like him for the AM/IW roles, and he was available for free with a small wage demand)

-Bonus Track: bad behavioural traits are very welcomed, as the seasons goes I'll even look for good newgens with "Unsportive" personality 

To summarize, finding players like Rory McKenzie in my base squad at the beginning of the save (don't have a screenshot of him atm) is a true joy to my eyes and a good starting point from which to build

Edited March 27 by Fox-7-

[Los_Culés]

9 hours ago, Fox-7- said:

Thanks for the reply @Los_Culés. Yeah I use some PIs:

RIFB/FB,LFB cross more often from deep aiming the TF

SV: take more risks, get further forward, move into channels (only in the standard version)

AM: move into channels, take more risks, dribble more

WM (you're right, I use a right-footed player): sit narrower, hold position, cut inside with ball.

The idea with my WM Is to have him in a hybrid position between covering for the SVs and FBa pairing with the DM to make a bit lopsided 3-2 rest defence, and supporting the attack by overloading the left side, luring the opponente leaving AM and DW on the right in a more 1vs1 situation when the play is switched on the right flank. I think a left-footed player could also work, i believe he'll just have a more limited natural passing range only towards the right side of the pitch (maybe the trait "used the outside of the foot" could help in this?)

Instead of morphing into a more possessional team going through the seasons, I'm trying to build a club DNA to the maximum extent of a Defence-First approach: I want to become an unpleasant and exhausting team to face in matches, a sort of a Simeone's Atletico and a Wimbledon's Crazy Gang mix 

I'm very selective in my player recruitment, above all in strenght, jumping reach, bravery, aggression, determination and workrate

-Back 4 players (+DMs) around 190cm or above 

-TF: you can tell by looking at Hornby

-Other players: >180 cm (the only actual exepction in my squad Is Lumeka, but in the very first season I have literally no money and I was in desperate need of a player like him for the AM/IW roles, and he was available for free with a small wage demand)

-Bonus Track: bad behavioural traits are very welcomed, as the seasons goes I'll even look for good newgens with "Unsportive" personality 

To summarize, finding players like Rory McKenzie in my base squad at the beginning of the save (don't have a screenshot of him atm) is a true joy to my eyes and a good starting point from which to build

Thanks for the PIs, I will experiment with them in the coming days. My Left-Footed WM does not really suit this defence first style but he is my most and practically only creative/technical player (M. Medel). He is also old and rather slow, I will try to deploy him as a creator/crosser on the left side (like D. Beckham role :)). Meanwhile I will try to retrain one of my fullbacks/central midfielders for this role.

I like your thinking, sometimes I also do not morph. Eg. in FM11 I was managing a modest Uruguayan club (El Tanque Sisley) and after a few years practically all my players had AGG, BRA, DET, TEA, WOR > 14. I also teached a lot of my players PPM "Dives Into Tackles" and coupled with Hard Tackling Instruction my team was really intense (the match engine captured this well enough). I was also specifically looking for players with high hidden attribute "Dirtiness". Cholo Simeone/good old Uruguayan style.  On the other hand I also admire managers like M. Pellegrini/R. Gareca so I am naturally inclined to morph .

I am looking forward to get some FM matches soon, so I will then report how am I doing.

[crusadertsar]

@Fox-7- Sorry about late response mate. Thank you for the detailed response about your own experience with Defence-First football. Little incremental gains season by season is exactly what Defence+First football is about. All while sticking long-term with a sensible balanced tactic rather than chasing after quick glory with aggressive attacking approaches. 

Great job with undefeated record against Rangers and Celtic! I know the feeling very well. My own nemesis teams are Real Madrid and Barcelona which are very hard to beat early in any save. Finally this past season my Real Sociedad managed to defeat both Barca and Real Madrid to win Spanish League Cup and Super Cup. The feeling is very satisfying and a sign that my 4-2-3-1 is finally starting to pick up momentum.

Regarding your question, when big sides start pressuring you and throwing everything at your defences (when you start seeing those frequent dreaded highlights haha). I tend to not change my tactic too much. The worst thing you can do is drastic change in mentality. When your players are used to playing at Positive mentality and you switch to Cautious for example, it might actually reducing their defensive effectiveness just because of loss of tactical familiarity. I might make some small role changes such as adding one or two defend duties to make my players sit back more. Most commonly I change my DM(s) into HalfBack. Also one of the biggest changes you can make to help your team is to switch to Faster Pace. This helps your players in circulating the ball better against hard-pressing sides. 

Anyway congrats on a great tactic and results 

Edited March 27 by crusadertsar

[crusadertsar]

Oh and one very important one that helped me a lot is adding "waste time" at max but only when there are about 15-10 minutes left in match.

[isoche]

I really hate having over 3+ goals every match.. So this made me a fan of defensive football sadly lol..

I've been trying many defensive tactics on the internet, and i tried many of mine.. But in FM 24 for a reason i cant make it work. 3-5-2 or 5-3-2, they barely work.

Now im trying 4-1-4-1, or 4-2-3-1 2 DMS, and it still wont help... So whenever im leading 1-0 or 2-0 i just waste time and lower tempo :/ I dont realy want to win the leauge with 120 goals scored. Do you have any tactics? I want to try some of your tactic files to be honest.

[crusadertsar]

9 hours ago, isoche said:

I really hate having over 3+ goals every match.. So this made me a fan of defensive football sadly lol..

I've been trying many defensive tactics on the internet, and i tried many of mine.. But in FM 24 for a reason i cant make it work. 3-5-2 or 5-3-2, they barely work.

Now im trying 4-1-4-1, or 4-2-3-1 2 DMS, and it still wont help... So whenever im leading 1-0 or 2-0 i just waste time and lower tempo :/ I dont realy want to win the leauge with 120 goals scored. Do you have any tactics? I want to try some of your tactic files to be honest.

I don't think I understand your request. This thread is literally loaded with Defensive tactics with pics showing all the team instructions. What else do you need?

[Los_Culés]

@Fox-7-As I have stated I am new to FM24 (played old CMs, FM11/12/13, FM 16 also a bit but I did not like it). In order to make things simple for me I pretty much shamelessly copied your tactic (I like the combination of strong defensive play and a bit of controlling element, I like watching Barca IRL but as a FM manager I  rather prefer to be Ó. Tabárez/Cholo Simeone type of guy  ) and also my starting team (Deportes Copiapó, relegation candidates, IRL currently last in the Chilean First League after 5 matches, 0 points, last year they barely managed to escape the relegation) suits your tactic based on TM (I have two good TMs in my squad).

So far I have played a couple of easy friendlies to gain morale and one difficult friendly match vs Belgrano (from ARG First League, which is a higher standard league). I lost vs. Belgrano (0-1) and they quite dominated but this is ok as it is expected. On the other hand I won my first two league matches vs. good CHI teams (H- vs. O'Higgins and A - vs. Everton). My TM scored in both of these matches so I am really excited. I really like what I see on the pitch and as I am slowly getting grips with the game I am starting to experiment with PIs (as the overall standard of my players is not very high). Anyway next game away vs. Colo Colo will be tough. 

Thank you mate 

Edited March 29 by Los_Culés

[Fox-7-]

3 ore fa, Los_Culés ha scritto:

@Fox-7-As I have stated I am new to FM24 (played old CMs, FM11/12/13, FM 16 also a bit but I did not like it). In order to make things simple for me I pretty much shamelessly copied your tactic

There's no shame mate, in fact at the beginning of the learning curve it is an almost mandatory step to reduce the waste of time compared to the trial and error approach (and less frustrating). I myself did this in my first steps into the FM world. Even now I regularly check here and on the web if there are interesting topics regarding aspects that I have always paid little attention to or which I have never dealt with, and I often discover and learn new things that improve my gaming experience even after 15+ years of FM

Edited March 29 by Fox-7-

[crusadertsar]

End of Season Mini-Update

So 27/28 season is over and Real Sociedad has once again proven that they are the "best of the rest" improving on the 4th place finish last season and equaling our position from 2024 and 2025 seasons. Still can't break into the 2nd place position but then Barcelona and Real Madrid are not easy teams to beat, even 5 years into the save. Although there have been a few signs of better things to come especially seeing how my latest tactic (4-2-3-1 from last update) has performed against these two footballing giants.

A lot of positives to take from above screen. For a non-Meta tactic I am rather happy with our passing and possession stats (56% average possession). While at the same time only conceding 24 goals all season long is probably the best achievement for a "Defence-First" non-gegenpress tactic. 

There was a huge divide between top 3 goal concession stats and the rest of the league. Also Real Sociedad was only 3 clean sheets behind League Winner Barcelona. I can't be anything proud of the boys after performing so well against the top 2 teams. Especially when Barcelona's highest valued player is worth 282 million euro (Yamine Lamal) while ours is aging Mikel Oyarzabal (86 million). And here are some of the results against elite teams.

 

And here is how the tactic looks at the end of the season. A few small adjustments but mostly the same as at start of season (All the PIs remained the same as explained in my previous update). 

 

And on that positive note I will be moving on to 2028/29 season. Hopefully the Spanish Cup success will provide us with momentum to achieve even more success with Defence-First Football. Happy managing and Happy Easter everyone 

PS: I am the guy wearing the blue and yellow polo shirt

 

Edited March 29 by crusadertsar

[TheBeardless]

Cracking Thread Mate 

Continue the good work 

 

[AceCream]

4 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

End of Season Mini-Update

So 27/28 season is over and Real Sociedad has once again proven that they are the "best of the rest" improving on the 4th place finish last season and equaling our position from 2024 and 2025 seasons. Still can't break into the 2nd place position but then Barcelona and Real Madrid are not easy teams to beat, even 5 years into the save. Although there have been a few signs of better things to come especially seeing how my latest tactic (4-2-3-1 from last update) has performed against these two footballing giants.

Great read as always @crusadertsar! Have you made a Real Sociedad save in every FM of the past 5 years or so? What was your most memorable/successful save do you think? 

[crusadertsar]

49 minutes ago, AceCream said:

Great read as always @crusadertsar! Have you made a Real Sociedad save in every FM of the past 5 years or so? What was your most memorable/successful save do you think? 

Thanks! Yes pretty much since FM19 I think. Although I didn't start writing about them until FM20. My favourite so far has got to be my FM21 save just because I had amassed some really nice newgens and we actually managed to win LaLiga in our 3rd or 4th season. But I didn't try for a strict Basque-only policy back then. I still remember my amazing Belgian and French players in that team. You can see some of them in my "Swiss Knife" thread below.

Although seeing how the FM24 save is going, and because I'm so motivated by its Basque-only challenge, it might become my fave soon. Thanks for reading 

Edited March 29 by crusadertsar

[BennosGames0299]

On 08/12/2023 at 16:26, crusadertsar said:

Season 2, Defence-First Tactic, Version 2

I decided to do a little tactical restructuring during the Summer 2024 off-season with Real Sociedad. This is in response to tactical findings from previous season. Namely, the defensive side of my tactic was great. I am not going to bore you by going over the statistical details again. You can find those in my previous posts. In summary our defence was solid enough to help us attain 3rd place finish in the league (an improvement over last year's 4th). But unfortunately Real Sociedad lacked some punch in attack to truly challenge for the title. Despite finishing 6th in the league in terms of goals scored, Real Sociedad had way too many 0-0 draws for my liking, or too many draws period. And on many occasions we failed to score the important goal to break a draw. So for the 2024-25 season to make a few important changes while hopefully maintaining the same solid defensive structure from last season. We also had a few player departures (mainly Tierney and Silva leaving after their loans ended) and thus some tactical modifications were warranted.

As I wrote in my very first post, it is key to begin with a Plan. How exactly do I want my team to attack? Who should be our primary goals-scorers? I stressed in the past that variety is essential when it comes to crafting effective FM tactics. This is no different in relation to goal-scoring. We will need variety (both through roles and spatial positioning) in attack to improve our team’s attacking potential.

One must not forget that you still need potent attack to have a good defence. If you attack is not enough to keep opposition occupied then your defence will probably work very intensely throughout the match. One aspect of tactic should not be overlooked in favour of the other. It is a balance in both attack and defence that creates successful FM tactics. 

Firstly, I foresee that Real Sociedad will need at least 3 routes to goals. Last season, I became so focused on defence that I ignored this aspect and only ended up two realistic ways to score goals – from our central striker and left flank attacker (inverted winger role for most of the season). The balance was off and that was the main reason why we could not really challenge for a title. Of course, part of that has to do with the player quality probably lacking when compared to our two main competitors Real Madrid and Barcelona. But tactics still play an important role. Winning as an underdog is very possible in FM24, it just takes more effort in devising the tactics and care in game-to-game monitoring.

Last season, aside from Segundo Volante (S) we did not have much in terms of central late-arriving goal threat to back up our striker. So with the new, modified tactic I plan to address this.

In the above tactic, there are three clear routes to goals. The central striker remains our most potent threat. I decided to modify this role a little. I believe that I would need more of a strong presence here since we are playing with only one striker and there a few players attacking from deep or from flank. A striker role that can hold up the ball, among other things, is thus preferable. I decided to go with Complete Forward (A) just because my current best player Umar Sadiq seems to be best suited to this role. He is strong, tall, can dribble and can finish. So a pretty decent Complete Forward in my opinion.

Sadiq’s current backup is the promising youngster Mohamed-Ali Cho. A decent enough young player and also with enough potential to grow into CF role, although I will try him on Support duty because his Finishing is not so good. Sadly he is not Basque, so I will only be keeping him until his contract expires in 2027.

On the right I opted for a hard-working IW, simply because I see it as good middle-ground role between an attack-focused IF and more supporting winger or wide playmaker. I believe that Inverted Winger role marries all of these separate roles rather nicely. With the right player you can have a versatile role that can dribble, pass, cross and chip in with goals aplenty. A great compliment to the more reserved AP on the left.

Finally, our third goal-scorer will hopefully come from deeper position via CM(A). With my playmaker sitting on the wing,  I had to changed up the midfield a little from my usual Mourinho’s Chelsea-inspired trio of creator, water-carrier and destroyer. It allowed to free one player from traditional playmaking duties and let him concentrate on purely pushing forward with aggressive runs on goal. Hence CM(A) role. And given the Positional Play changes in FM24, there is also the added benefit of this player moving more consistently into AMC strata. Add to this a more aggressive wingback and you have yourself a recipe for 3-2-4-1 shape in attack. A balance attacking formation that I am looking for. While we can hopefully defend in a 4-1-4-1.

I also like the fact that our attack is coming from different vertical tactical strata: top central (via striker), attacking midfield strata (via IW) and deeper midfield (CM). Laterally, there is also quite a bit of tactical variety as our attackers are spread out and moving into wide areas, occupying central spaces as well as roaming into half-spaces between flank and centre. In the spirit of Total Football, we are trying to use the total expanse of the field to our advantage. It is also the concept behind the modern version of Total Football - Positional Play.  

The rest of the tactic is pretty self-explanatory. The main thing I tried to recreate is having 2-3 supporting players to each attacker. Likewise I wanted each attacking player to have at least 2 players supporting them directly.

For example, Oyarzabal, our Advance Playmaker is in prime position to support both the CM(A) and the Striker. The central Striker is fed by both AP and BBM directly and Wingback more indirectly via crosses. CM(A) in turn gets most of his support from aforementioned AP but also from the nearby BBM and less directly from both Libero and Wingback (via crosses again). Right-flank IW gets most of his support from wingback (moving behind and overlapping beyond him) and the dynamic BBM who takes more risks and roams forward more than your usual CM. With the right player you could have a similar effect to playing RPM there except without the undesirable (for my tactic at least) ball-magnet effect in the midfield. I do not want a central playmaker to take away from my libero’s limelight. While a playmaker on the wing should be fine, and if anything can become a focus-point for an occasional pass from the libero.

Speaking of the Libero. While it is a role that is sometimes hard to fill, given its demanding technical and mental requirements, it is invaluable in tactics where you want to start by building up from the back rather than having your players boot the ball long and risk losing it to the opposition tall jumpers. Also, hiding one of your primary playmakers deeper is a good away of giving them more influence over dictating the game rather than constantly being marked out by opponents. In fact, our Libero directly supports almost all the players in front of him, especially the runners like Wingback, CM(A) and BBM.

The defensive side of the tactic is also rather simple. I tried to make least changes possible to it, given how solid it was last season.

Our new acquisition Guillamon (16.75 million transfer from Valencia) is a rather competent libero with all the right traits to make him excel in the role even if his attributes may not be world-class. In possession he is happy moving forward to position himself next to our DM(S) Zubimendi (the only role with individual instructions to "dribble less", "shoot less often" and "hold position"). Due to FM24's positional play under-the-hood programming, Zubimendi will move slightly to the left. This essentially creates a sort of DM double pivot with our libero acting as a deep-lying playmaker. At the same time Le Normand (DCL) will move to the right to fill in the space liberated by our libero (thank God for FM24's Juego De Posicion!). The left fullback (IFB Defend) will then move centrally to become another CB in Le Normand's DCL position. All rather simple and elegant. And just like that we have defensive 2-2 box in Defence and DM strata. 

And here are some early signs that the tactic has potential

 

 

Well I know it is a draw, but I am actually rather proud with that last Ajax result. We played an important Champions League match AWAY from home against a team of high reputation and employing some pretty talented players (especially some pacey, technical attackers). So not too bad at all 

TO BE CONTINUED ...

Any Individual instructions to this tactic or is every one just on hardwired instruction? @crusadertsar

 

Edited March 29 by BennosGames0299

[crusadertsar]

53 minutes ago, BennosGames0299 said:

Any Individual instructions to this tactic or is every one just on hardwired instruction? @crusadertsar

 

Nothing more beyond what's mentioned in the thread.

[Fox-7-]

@crusadertsar I apologize in advance for the question, which may seem polemical given that the topic has already been raised a couple of times in previous updates but I think it was asked in the wrong way with accusatory tones, but instead it is a genuine request, given that I appreciate this thread a lot and I have followed it from the beginning in every update.

Can the last two tactics be purely defined as Defense-First approach?

At first glance (and my impression may obviously be totally wrong, given that I haven't tried the tactic while you know exactly how it works on the pitch) it may seem instead that the balance of the game plan is based more on rest defense in the opponent's half for long periods. stretches of time rather than on the rest attack when the opponent is in possession, practically defending more by managing the ball than producing an effort without it.

Compared to the OP the intensity has gone up (not to the maximum obviously, I'm obviously not talking about a meta tactic) with the lines, the pressing and the mentality and the positioning of the players on the pitch has gone from a bottom heavy to a top heavy formazione.

Aside from goals conceded, could I ask you how the other defensive indicators are?

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, Fox-7- said:

@crusadertsar I apologize in advance for the question, which may seem polemical given that the topic has already been raised a couple of times in previous updates but I think it was asked in the wrong way with accusatory tones, but instead it is a genuine request, given that I appreciate this thread a lot and I have followed it from the beginning in every update.

Can the last two tactics be purely defined as Defense-First approach?

At first glance (and my impression may obviously be totally wrong, given that I haven't tried the tactic while you know exactly how it works on the pitch) it may seem instead that the balance of the game plan is based more on rest defense in the opponent's half for long periods. stretches of time rather than on the rest attack when the opponent is in possession, practically defending more by managing the ball than producing an effort without it.

Compared to the OP the intensity has gone up (not to the maximum obviously, I'm obviously not talking about a meta tactic) with the lines, the pressing and the mentality and the positioning of the players on the pitch has gone from a bottom heavy to a top heavy formazione.

Aside from goals conceded, could I ask you how the other defensive indicators are?

It's a good question. I think from the start maybe the name I chose for my systems was a bit misleading. By "Defense-First" I never meant the style of football that is very low block passive, defending in own half. I don't really see it doing that well in the current match engine. My goal has always been to achieve very balanced style with focus on attacking well and defending well, irrespective of whether it's defending in rest defence or not. Honestly i try to make my tactics simple to set up, simple to recreate and as simple as possible to understand for others. And all this recent talk on the forum of "rest" this or "rest" that is making FM more complicated than it needs to be. So I'm probably too old school to discuss that style of defending. I wouldn't really be able to tell you a good rest defence system from a bad one or what "rest" attack is. You can go to @Rashidi threads for that.

My knowledge of football mostly comes from watching alot of it in late 90s and early 2000s and reading about amazing teams of yore. I mostly like Mourinho style of defending that is not overly aggressive but still has a bite going forward. In fact, my last series of tactics have more than a little influence from Mourinho's 4-2-3-1 from his Real Madrid era. Meaning that my Real Sociedad team has improved too much for us to constantly play on the back foot. So maybe it did become a little more offensive but hope that balance has not shifted too much. It's still a sensible, balanced approach where the objective is to simply win the game, not to score gazillion goals. Trust me if I was after scoring 120+ goals per season, I wouldn't be using my "Defence-First" system  What I am able to achieve with this style of somewhat pragmatic football is go through whole seasons while keeping goals conceeded in low 20s and staying among the leaders in clean sheets. And that's just how I like it.

Regarding your other question I will try to post some other defensive stats but I started a new season so not sure if will still have access to stats from last season.

Edited March 30 by crusadertsar

[Fox-7-]

4 ore fa, crusadertsar ha scritto:

It's a good question. I think from the start maybe the name I chose for my systems was a bit misleading. By "Defense-First" I never meant the style of football that is very low block passive, defending in own half. I don't really see it doing that well in the current match engine. My goal has always been to achieve very balanced style with focus on attacking well and defending well, irrespective of whether it's defending in rest defence or not. Honestly i try to make my tactics simple to set up, simple to recreate and as simple as possible to understand for others. And all this recent talk on the forum of "rest" this or "rest" that is making FM more complicated than it needs to be. So I'm probably too old school to discuss that style of defending. I wouldn't really be able to tell you a good rest defence system from a bad one or what "rest" attack is. You can go to @Rashidi threads for that.

My knowledge of football mostly comes from watching alot of it in late 90s and early 2000s and reading about amazing teams of yore. I mostly like Mourinho style of defending that is not overly aggressive but still has a bite going forward. In fact, my last series of tactics have more than a little influence from Mourinho's 4-2-3-1 from his Real Madrid era. Meaning that my Real Sociedad team has improved too much for us to constantly play on the back foot. So maybe it did become a little more offensive but hope that balance has not shifted too much. It's still a sensible, balanced approach where the objective is to simply win the game, not to score gazillion goals. Trust me if I was after scoring 120+ goals per season, I wouldn't be using my "Defence-First" system  What I am able to achieve with this style of somewhat pragmatic football is go through whole seasons while keeping goals conceeded in low 20s and staying among the leaders in clean sheets. And that's just how I like it.

Regarding your other question I will try to post some other defensive stats but I started a new season so not sure if will still have access to stats from last season.

 

Oh, I've never interpreted your Defense-First approach as a set of Park the Bus tactics either, and in fact I admire how you manage to make even very different sets of tactics and instructions work within the same save with the same players. In fact, my first intervention in this thread was to say that I was following the thread because often, despite loving coaching underdog teams, my problem with the Defense-First approach was that of being too passive in the tactical setup, resulting in closer to a Park the Bus than anything else, and therefore I wanted to find new ideas to refine this tactical style. But yes, perhaps the very definition of Defense-First approach can be misleading if taken literally, because the feeling I had seeing the latest evolutions of the tactic is that defensive effectiveness is more a product of a well-balanced offensive setup (therefore a sort of Defence-Secondary achievement, if I can allow myself to give my interpretation) rather than being the core on which the work is based which then serves to bring home victories without going gung-ho with the Gegenpressing meta.

I'm almost 35 years old, so I also grew up watching the football of those years at the turn of the millennium, which I personally consider to be of a higher level than today's football, especially regarding the quantity of great players. In fact, returning to the focus of the thread, now that I'm in the break between one season and another, I'm reading and watching some videos since I want to implement another variant of 442 as a 3rd tactical slot, inspired by that of the Czech Republic team during Euro 2004, to see if I manager to buy a couple of players needed to recreate it properly

But now I'll stop being pedantic , I hope to read even more updates and interesting insights from you .

[BennosGames0299]

On 29/03/2024 at 12:40, crusadertsar said:

End of Season Mini-Update

So 27/28 season is over and Real Sociedad has once again proven that they are the "best of the rest" improving on the 4th place finish last season and equaling our position from 2024 and 2025 seasons. Still can't break into the 2nd place position but then Barcelona and Real Madrid are not easy teams to beat, even 5 years into the save. Although there have been a few signs of better things to come especially seeing how my latest tactic (4-2-3-1 from last update) has performed against these two footballing giants.

A lot of positives to take from above screen. For a non-Meta tactic I am rather happy with our passing and possession stats (56% average possession). While at the same time only conceding 24 goals all season long is probably the best achievement for a "Defence-First" non-gegenpress tactic. 

There was a huge divide between top 3 goal concession stats and the rest of the league. Also Real Sociedad was only 3 clean sheets behind League Winner Barcelona. I can't be anything proud of the boys after performing so well against the top 2 teams. Especially when Barcelona's highest valued player is worth 282 million euro (Yamine Lamal) while ours is aging Mikel Oyarzabal (86 million). And here are some of the results against elite teams.

 

And here is how the tactic looks at the end of the season. A few small adjustments but mostly the same as at start of season (All the PIs remained the same as explained in my previous update). 

 

And on that positive note I will be moving on to 2028/29 season. Hopefully the Spanish Cup success will provide us with momentum to achieve even more success with Defence-First Football. Happy managing and Happy Easter everyone 

PS: I am the guy wearing the blue and yellow polo shirt

 

Same individual instructions but the AM has no hardcoded individual instructions unlike the shadow striker so is that left blank or did you add the same individual instructions as the shadow striker @crusadertsar

[crusadertsar]

38 minutes ago, BennosGames0299 said:

Same individual instructions but the AM has no hardcoded individual instructions unlike the shadow striker so is that left blank or did you add the same individual instructions as the shadow striker @crusadertsar

Oh yes sorry forgot, when I use AMC(a) or AMC(s) I always give him the instructions to recreate Shadow Striker role. I just like deeper defensive positioning of AMC role compared to Shadow Striker.

Edited March 31 by crusadertsar

[crusadertsar]

7 hours ago, Fox-7- said:

 

Oh, I've never interpreted your Defense-First approach as a set of Park the Bus tactics either, and in fact I admire how you manage to make even very different sets of tactics and instructions work within the same save with the same players. In fact, my first intervention in this thread was to say that I was following the thread because often, despite loving coaching underdog teams, my problem with the Defense-First approach was that of being too passive in the tactical setup, resulting in closer to a Park the Bus than anything else, and therefore I wanted to find new ideas to refine this tactical style. But yes, perhaps the very definition of Defense-First approach can be misleading if taken literally, because the feeling I had seeing the latest evolutions of the tactic is that defensive effectiveness is more a product of a well-balanced offensive setup (therefore a sort of Defence-Secondary achievement, if I can allow myself to give my interpretation) rather than being the core on which the work is based which then serves to bring home victories without going gung-ho with the Gegenpressing meta.

I'm almost 35 years old, so I also grew up watching the football of those years at the turn of the millennium, which I personally consider to be of a higher level than today's football, especially regarding the quantity of great players. In fact, returning to the focus of the thread, now that I'm in the break between one season and another, I'm reading and watching some videos since I want to implement another variant of 442 as a 3rd tactical slot, inspired by that of the Czech Republic team during Euro 2004, to see if I manager to buy a couple of players needed to recreate it properly

But now I'll stop being pedantic , I hope to read even more updates and interesting insights from you .

Aha!  the 2004 Czech Republic team! What a beautiful team that was. The maestro himself Nedved directing it. 

I had a ton of fun trying to recreate it and writing about it back in the day. Would love to try same in FM24 maybe. Now you are giving me ideas 

 

Edited March 31 by crusadertsar

[Fox-7-]

Il 31/3/2024 in 01:16 , crusadertsar ha scritto:

Aha!  the 2004 Czech Republic team! What a beautiful team that was. The maestro himself Nedved directing it. 

I had a ton of fun trying to recreate it and writing about it back in the day. Would love to try same in FM24 maybe. Now you are giving me ideas 

 

Wunderbar, I wasn't aware of this topic (*Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well meme*). Juventus fans here, Furia Ceca is one of my all-time favorite players, and I was totally in love with Rosicky's poetry in movement, but my footballing soul as a fighting full-back when I played made me admire Grygera an Ujfalusi's solidity and discipline and and the perfect physical-athletic combination of the Koller-Baros couple, the Human lighthouse and the Czech Maradona (Baros' equalizer against Netherlands with the chested ball by Koller was orgasmic to my eyes)

I can't see the tactic screen, maybe it's too old and won't load it in my browser. I was thinking of something like this, haven't tested It yet, I don't know how close I came to your idea:

GK

FBs NCBd CBd WBa

DMd (offset to the left)

Ws RPMs (in the CMR slot) IWa

TMs AFa

Not sure about Nedved's role, he was basically a wide-inverted-box to box midfielder on attack duty with all the possibile PIs 

Balanced mentality, TIs as simple as possible: Slightly more direct passes, counter, press more often, mid block with higher DL

Edited April 2 by Fox-7-

[OYTNANAK]

On 27/03/2024 at 05:22, Fox-7- said:

TF: you can tell by looking at Hornby

Hornby was so good in my save with KV Mechelen, a mid-table side in Belgium. Although he was not my regular starter, coming off the bench he had an average of 0.9~ goals/90. Nice update on your save mate. 

[OYTNANAK]

Halfway through the 2nd season with Everton...

I'll probably make a more detailed update after finishing the season. 

Edited April 3 by OYTNANAK

[JoOSTAR]

16 minutes ago, OYTNANAK said:

Halfway through the 2nd season with Everton...

I'll probably make a more detailed update after finishing the season. 

 

That's some good ****!

 

Really like your tactic a lot as well, It has been fun using it! Did you make any changes in the mean time?

[OYTNANAK]

19 minutes ago, JoOSTAR said:

 

That's some good ****!

 

Really like your tactic a lot as well, It has been fun using it! Did you make any changes in the mean time?

Thanks . And yeah I did. Basically:
- I didn't use the trap outside in recent matches. Instead, I use prevent short GK distribution (to buffer their attack, so opponents don't advance up the field to easily).
- I changed some of the roles too (add/remove some TIs)
- I started to incorporate 'Show onto foot' more often especially in big matches where they usually line up with 3-2-5 in possession.
- I formulated my Big Match starting XI.

All of the mentioned changes are due to the 2-2 draw away against Man United and 1-2 home loss against Brentford. Hopefully I can get the time to finish the season so I can write a more a in-depth one. 

Edited April 3 by OYTNANAK

[TheMartello]

45 minutes ago, OYTNANAK said:

Thanks . And yeah I did. Basically:
- I didn't use the trap outside in recent matches. Instead, I use prevent short GK distribution (to buffer their attack, so opponents don't advance up the field to easily).
- I changed some of the roles too (add/remove some TIs)
- I started to incorporate 'Show onto foot' more often especially in big matches where they usually line up with 3-2-5 in possession.
- I formulated my Big Match starting XI.

All of the mentioned changes are due to the 2-2 draw away against Man United and 1-2 home loss against Brentford. Hopefully I can get the time to finish the season so I can write a more a in-depth one. 

 

Can you post a screenshot of the current tactic and add the team instructions/player instructions?

[OYTNANAK]

27 minutes ago, TheMartello said:

 

Can you post a screenshot of the current tactic and add the team instructions/player instructions?

Here you go mate. The PIs are:
- Moves into channels for the TF
- Tackle harder for the SS (McTominay used for big match). Regularly, I use AP(at) with Miranchuk with roam from position.
- Close down less and ease off tackle for both FBs
- Take more risks for Onana
- Dribble more for Doucoure

 

For the match against Liverpool, Danjuma is playing on the left to have a field day against Trent. In the game, he created a very beautiful cross after going past Trent. Unfortunately, Scott McTominay's header was saved by Allison, hence the 0.4xG on McTominay. Here's an example of OIs that I used during the match in Anfield:

My thought process was to let them TAA (Right DM in possession) and Thiago (Left DM in possession) to pass the ball to the winger on their respective side. Since they are playing with 3-2-5 in possession, their wingers could be easily isolated, especially by showing them to their outside foot. Then, my winger will help my FB to form a 2v1 against the winger. Here's one moment of that:

Spoiler

Trent is being shown onto his right side.

Salah is getting 2v1d (LM and LB) and shortly after dispossessed by Mykolenko (LB).

The match result:

Spoiler

 

Edited April 3 by OYTNANAK

[Los_Culés]

On 29/03/2024 at 13:33, Fox-7- said:

There's no shame mate, in fact at the beginning of the learning curve it is an almost mandatory step to reduce the waste of time compared to the trial and error approach (and less frustrating). I myself did this in my first steps into the FM world. Even now I regularly check here and on the web if there are interesting topics regarding aspects that I have always paid little attention to or which I have never dealt with, and I often discover and learn new things that improve my gaming experience even after 15+ years of FM

So after a bit of further testing in Chile (Deportes Copiapó) your tactic worked very well (I won 6 from 8 games , lost 5-0 vs. top CHI team Colo Colo but this was rather a teamtalk/mental problem as half of my team was nervous going into this match ). TM (T. Figueroa) was really good and I plan to sign him after starting some proper save(s).

Anyway I started a couple of new saves (in South America) for further testing purposes and so far I added some PIs (Stay Wider for DL and removing Hold Position for ML + removing Gets Further Forward for SV , this seems to better replicate what I want from them ie. MCL + ML floding the centre and attacking fullback providing width, also thinking of adding shorter passing to IFB). Given the players I currently have (towering TMs are quite hard to get when relying on free agents/loans), how would you modify your defense first tactic should you have a Poacher (Inzaghi type, not strong, not quick, good movement & finishing) at your disposal?

Edited April 7 by Los_Culés

[Fox-7-]

34 minuti fa, Los_Culés ha scritto:

So after a bit of further testing in Chile (Deportes Copiapó) your tactic worked very well (I won 6 from 8 games , lost 5-0 vs. top CHI team Colo Colo but this was rather a teamtalk/mental problem as half of my team was nervous going into this match ). TM (T. Figueroa) was really good and I plan to sign him after starting some proper save(s).

Anyway I started a couple of new saves (in South America) for further testing purposes and so far I added some PIs (Stay Wider for DL and removing Hold Position for ML + removing Gets Further Forward for SV , this seems to better replicate what I want from them ie. MCL + ML floding the centre and attacking fullback providing width, also thinking of adding shorter passing to IFB). Given the players I currently have (towering TMs are quite hard to get when relying on free agents/loans), how would you modify your defense first tactic should you have a Poacher (Inzaghi type, not strong, not quick, good movement & finishing) at your disposal?

I'm not the perfect person to answer your question, as I've never tried a Poacher in my FM experience. I assume he needs behind him someone that does the job out of possession for him and feeds him with assists, so I guess I'd try with a P and an AMs behind him.

But I don't know if a P is suitable for a non-aggressive mid/low block with standard pressing defensive approach, the risk is either to play with 10 men out of possession and not to be able to take advantage of his best skills due to the amount of pitch you have to cover to build an attack 

[Los_Culés]

@Fox-7-Thanks, exactly my thinking. AMs, maybe moving him to AMC (instead of AMCR), Winger instead of Defensive Winger, low crosses?....well a lot testing needed . I do not mind if he does not contribute defensively too much as in theory he should be then a bigger counter attacking threat. Anyway it is not my choice to deploy a Poacher, rather a necessity in some games to adapt to players at disposal.

[Vođi]

Il 2/4/2024 in 11:12 , Fox-7- ha scritto:

Not sure about Nedved's role, he was basically a wide-inverted-box to box midfielder on attack duty with all the possibile PIs 

What a team that was! 

I think I would be going for Nedved as mezzala on attack duty, with several PIs add. But probably it would need also a player with specific traits, such as arrives late in the area, maybe even likes to shoot often from distance ecc.

[warlock]

On 02/04/2024 at 10:12, Fox-7- said:

he was basically a wide-inverted-box to box midfielder on attack duty with all the possibile PIs 

There was something about that description that struck a chord, and today I figured out what it was - a blog post by FM Rensie from FM22 in which he described Nedved as a "wide roaming ball-winning box-to-box midfielder.

It's an excellent post and I tried for a while to recreate it but there was a distinct shortage of players who could come close to the role.

Fans of that famous Czech side should check it out:

The EURO dreams many years later | One season with A.C. Milan in FM22 — CoffeehouseFM - Football Manager Blogs

[Fox-7-]

49 minuti fa, warlock ha scritto:

There was something about that description that struck a chord, and today I figured out what it was - a blog post by FM Rensie from FM22 in which he described Nedved as a "wide roaming ball-winning box-to-box midfielder.

It's an excellent post and I tried for a while to recreate it but there was a distinct shortage of players who could come close to the role.

Fans of that famous Czech side should check it out:

The EURO dreams many years later | One season with A.C. Milan in FM22 — CoffeehouseFM - Football Manager Blogs

Omg, this is a true hidden gem!

Thanks mate 

[HanziZoloman]

Am 3.4.2024 um 19:47 schrieb OYTNANAK:

Here you go mate. The PIs are:
- Moves into channels for the TF
- Tackle harder for the SS (McTominay used for big match). Regularly, I use AP(at) with Miranchuk with roam from position.
- Close down less and ease off tackle for both FBs
- Take more risks for Onana
- Dribble more for Doucoure

 

For the match against Liverpool, Danjuma is playing on the left to have a field day against Trent. In the game, he created a very beautiful cross after going past Trent. Unfortunately, Scott McTominay's header was saved by Allison, hence the 0.4xG on McTominay. Here's an example of OIs that I used during the match in Anfield:

My thought process was to let them TAA (Right DM in possession) and Thiago (Left DM in possession) to pass the ball to the winger on their respective side. Since they are playing with 3-2-5 in possession, their wingers could be easily isolated, especially by showing them to their outside foot. Then, my winger will help my FB to form a 2v1 against the winger. Here's one moment of that:

  Inhalt unsichtbar machen

Trent is being shown onto his right side.

Salah is getting 2v1d (LM and LB) and shortly after dispossessed by Mykolenko (LB).

The match result:

  Unsichtbaren Inhalt anzeigen

 

Your tactic looks great for an underdog, just plain and clear. Would you also play the wide men in AML/AMR? 
would you explain some of your thoughts when creating this tactic?
It’s for the learning lesions. 

Thank you 

[Szellef]

Hello everyone. In my save I take over A.S. Roma after the mid-season break and I want to play a simeone-esque football. Not heavily counter-attacking but defence first football with proper punch. However my tactic just does not work. I know the familiarty to the tactic is low but the tactic plays nothing. Not defending properly and not attacking either. Can anyone help me and spot the mistakes of my tactic?  I tried WB-A instead of CWB-S and also tried positive and balanced mentalities. Nothing has worked for me.

 

[Fox-7-]

1 ora fa, Szellef ha scritto:

Hello everyone. In my save I take over A.S. Roma after the mid-season break and I want to play a simeone-esque football. Not heavily counter-attacking but defence first football with proper punch. However my tactic just does not work. I know the familiarty to the tactic is low but the tactic plays nothing. Not defending properly and not attacking either. Can anyone help me and spot the mistakes of my tactic?  I tried WB-A instead of CWB-S and also tried positive and balanced mentalities. Nothing has worked for me.

 

With two players in the CM strata and a pivot I'd eliminate the Counter TI, as It invites your BBM and MEZ to be even more aggressive in the counterattack together with the WBs and the forwards, leaving only the DLP and the three CBs to defend (and the WCBs will already be wider and higher on the pitch by default when you lose the ball).

For the possession phase there seems to me to be a non-optimal distribution of roles, for example PF and MEZ will compete for the same channel, and IMO WCBs are better suited for possession-oriented styles that looks to create overloads in a prolonged possession phase, that seems not to be yuor purpose. CWBs also Is a very demanding role, I don't know if Mario Rui has the skills to do the job properly in this role (I'm basing this on how I see him IRL in Serie A, I'm not aware of his skills on FM).

I would try this (from right to left):

SKd

CBd

CBco

CBd

WBs

DLPd/s

WBa

MEZa

CMs

F9s

PF/AFa

 

in this way you would have three players on attack in three different channels and at three different depths, with the added support of the WBs on the right wing, with the three CBs and DLP+CMs (with PI hold position) acting as the first defensive screen

Edited April 9 by Fox-7-

[Szellef]

11 dakika önce, Fox-7- said:

With two players in the CM strata and a pivot I'd eliminate the Counter TI, as It invites your BBM and MEZ to be even more aggressive in the counterattack together with the WBs and the forwards, leaving only the DLP and the three CBs to defend (and the WCBs will already be wider and higher on the pitch by default when you lose the ball).

For the possession phase there seems to me to be a non-optimal distribution of roles, for example PF and MEZ will compete for the same channel, and IMO WCBs are better suited for possession-oriented styles that looks to create overloads in a prolonged possession phase, that seems not to be yuor purpose. CWBs also Is a very demanding role, I don't know if Mario Rui has the skills to do the job properly in this role (I'm basing this on how I see him IRL in Serie A, I'm not aware of his skills on FM).

I would try this (from right to left):

SKd

CBd

CBco

CBd

WBs

DLPd/s

WBa

MEZa

CMs

F9s

PF/AFa

 

in this way you would have three players on attack in three different channels and at three different depths, with the added support of the WBs on the right wing, with the three CBs and DLP+CMs (with PI hold position) acting as the first defensive screen

Thanks for all the advice I am going to try these in the new season frendiles. I also do not think Mario Rui should play as a CWB. Normally Zalewski plays there. 

[HanziZoloman]

Here is another defense first approach which is strongly influenced by @OYTNANAK. In fact I just pushed the wingmen up and switch the TF with an AF sometimes, also some PI's slightly different. It works like a charm, thanks @OYTNANAK 

shot! I forget, the defenceline looks different, too

 

Edited April 10 by HanziZoloman

[Lunalion]

On 10/04/2024 at 21:11, HanziZoloman said:

Here is another defense first approach which is strongly influenced by @OYTNANAK. In fact I just pushed the wingmen up and switch the TF with an AF sometimes, also some PI's slightly different. It works like a charm, thanks @OYTNANAK 

shot! I forget, the defenceline looks different, too

 

This looks good, and works pretty well in my save. 
What are your PI's ?

[HanziZoloman]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb Lunalion:

This looks good, and works pretty well in my save. 
What are your PI's ?

AP has roam/f position 

MC(D) has more direct passes

MC(S) has take more risks

But(!) it stopped working after a few games because the downside is, that it’s to heavy relying on the AF as a goalscorer and lacks penetration from other areas. Check the discussion in „need help with a 433“ if you like