Defence-First Football Tactics (UPDATED Feb 20, 2024).

teej9 · December 16, 2023

1 minute ago, crusadertsar said:

I think you misunderstand the concepts behind pressing in the game. We press intensely in our own half. Thats the whole point. It's not high pressing at all. Also high defensive line does not mean high pressing. What combination of mid-block and high defensive line does is compress my defence, making it a more united close-knit unit in our own half that really hard to break down and can regain the ball much easier. Again none of what I'm doing is highpressing where you actually "defend" in opponents half.

Thanks for clarifying!

RozA · December 16, 2023

4 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Tactical Showcase - Narrow Diamond

I really got to stop changing my tactics mid-season. But that's the curse of an incessant tactical tinkerer. Although to spread some blame around, I was partly inspired by the comments from some of the followers in this thread. You know who you are

I really like the Narrow Diamond 442 for the two following reasons. It can be an exciting high-scoring tactic so I often switch to it when I just want to have some fun with a save and break some league records. Or just to underachieve as an underdog sometimes.

Secondly, and this plays into the fun part again, it gives me less headaches and feeling of uncertainty when it comes to role selection. I find that in wide formations I can never settle on the optimal wide roles selection. Lately FM has given us much to think about when it comes to our winger and fullback/wingback selection. There are just so many roles and combinations that can work together! And it's made even building a simple 433 a potentially daunting task. Especially, If you are a tinkerer who obsesses about every detail in the tactic and want to make it as efficient as possible. If you are like me then with certain formations you will never feel like your tactic is complete.

Well, with a Narrow Diamond there are no wingers and it actually brings me some peace of mind. To me Narrow Diamond is a definition of FM-Zen.

It is kind of funny how by limiting a tactic you can actually make it easier to set up and understand. I guess I am a minimalist at heart who seeks a break from some of the tactical complexity involved in FM tactical creation. Another reason that Narrow Diamond is so easy to create and work with is because some of the roles that work really well in it just MAKE SENSE in this formation. In some ways, they were designed with a narrow formation in mind. So while there are so many things that you can do wrong in tactical crafting, at least you can feel confident that you cannot really mess up your role selection.

But I am getting ahead of myself. Before you decide that you want to give Narrow Diamond a try, you need to see if your current squad is even capable of this formation. Like I mentioned before it is not a very demanding formation as it already cuts down your shopping list in terms of the wide attacker department. Nevertheless there is still a shopping list of requirements for a good balanced Narrow Diamond. A say "Balanced" because my objective in this tread still remains to showcase Defensively-responsible tactics. So naturally my Narrow Diamond will be more like Mourinho's Porto rather than Ancelotti's Real Madrid.

My Defence-First Narrow Diamond Requirements:

1) Complementary Wingbacks - One Complete Wingback who is very capable in attack. Another wingback should be more defence-conscious. So while one pushes aggressively forward the other can cover for him (and allow other players in your formation to be more attacking).

2) Hard-Working Specialized Midfielders. The midfield diamond is essential to this formation so naturally we need very good players here. BUT as an underdog you can get away with lesser quality players here IF they are: 1) Hard-Working Teamplayers and 2) Complement each other's strengths. That is having 3 midfielders who individually can fill the 3 roles of Runner/Water Carrier, Destroyer and Creator, without necessarily having players that can fit all three roles themselves. When managing on a budget you want hard-working specialists to fill your diamond, not total footballers.

3) AMC Wildcard Player (Creative and Attacking). This is the role that is missing from the standard flat 4-4-2 and it's arguably what makes Narrow 4-4-2 so special. Because it could be a player that contributes to both attack and creative support. If your team is lucky to have one, then you could stick your playmaking wizard here, the fantasista player, the creative mastermind through whom most the attacks can be channeled.

Roberto Baggio, the famous #10 often comes to mind as a perfect example of this role. In fact, Italian soil has been quite fruitful in yielding some of the best #10s in recent memory. AS Roma's Totti was another one. Anyway, you get my point.

Even Jose Mourinho had his own talismanic fantasista wildcard player at Porto, Deco. Also your AMC does not necessarily have to be a playmaker. Personally, I am rather partial to Shadow Strikers. And that is one role that absolutely thrive in a Narrow Diamond. I will explain more of that later. We are not finished with our Narrow Diamond shopping list.

4) Finally for a successful Narrow Diamond, you will need a strong pairing in central defence. Since enemy attacks will come often via crosses from the flanks, you cannot get away with less quality here. Your centrebacks will need to be among your best players, if not outright stars of the team. Or at least try to get ones with better than league average for their defensive attributes (such as the mental and physical ones I mentioned in my very first post in this thread).

And once you have your shopping list, it leads us to the strengths and weaknesses/limitations of the Narrow Diamond. Because why proceed with this formation? Is it worth the trouble, given its obvious width limitations?

YES! It is very much worth it. In fact, I noticed that recently on this forum some misleading information has been floating around. Some people are claiming that Narrow formations like 442 Narrow Diamond are somehow weaker and flawed in the current match engine. Well that is very far from truth. And I would very much like to dispel this misinformation. But at the same time one has to be objective. Narrow Diamond is not a perfect formation by any means. No shape in football is perfect actually. Likewise Narrow 442 has its limitations. Luckily some of these can be mitigate by clever use of roles and instructions. But once again more on that later.

Strengths:

1) Defensive Stability. One of the benefits of a midfield diamond is that one midfielder (usually the central one at the lower tip of the diamond) can be tasked with supporting the defence and drop deeper to form a passing triangle with the centrebacks. This can both help stop opposition attacks through the middle, help deal with crosses (if the player is tall) and aid in bringing the ball up from defence. By having a dedicated defensive midfielder, the Narrow Diamond sacrifices some attacking potential to ensure defensive stability. Which, given my aim of Defence-First Football, is perfectly fine. This extra man, the DM (or middle CM) destroyer, can easily step back into defence to act as the fifth defender if the team is under pressure. In some tactics (depending on the roles and instructions used) it can even lead to a transition in the form of a defensive 5-3-2. And thankfully to the Positional Play changes in FM24 match engine, such transitions are easier than ever to set up.

2) Midfield Control. Pretty self-explanatory. Three midfielders are always better than two when it comes to "bossing" the midfield and controlling the ball. It's even better when you have a hard-working AMC dropping deeper to help support as well. A player with high Workrate attribute will do so even in a seemingly ultra-attacking roles like Shadow Striker. "Comes deep to get the ball" trait can also help in increasing this behaviour. Furthermore, four midfielders ensure that there is no space for the opposition to string together passes in the build-up, which ultimately leaves them with two options — the long ball or cross from the flank. And luckily for us, there are specific team instructions that can help us deal with those two modes of attack pretty easily.

3) Boosted Attack. It is no secret that Narrow Diamond 442 can be an attacking formation on steroids. Afterall, you can essentially operate with two strikers and one shadow strikers. Albait the variaton of roles and duties is very important here since you will want to make sure that each of your final third attackers is doing something different that complements what the other two are doing. No 2-3 Advanced Forwards in my tactics, ever. You can try that, but that would be cheating and what's the fun in that?

Weaknesses:

To note here is that while Narrow Diamond has some clear weakness, they can all be mitigated to a certain degree. You may not be able to cancel them out completely but at least make them less of a liability. The important thing is to take advantage of the strengths to help you win games while reducing the weaknesses by specifically addressing the limitations.

1) Lack of Width. Another pretty obvious one. The Narrow Diamond is a very narrow formation due to the lack of wide players. But this can be addressed pretty easily through selection of roles. Having forwards (or AMC) which drift wide and move into channels. Some midfield roles such as Mezzala and Carrilero are also programmed to do exactly that and that is the reason why they are ideal for narrow formations. Similarly some wingback roles like CWB are designed to use the full extent of the flank. So even in a narrow formation, you can have a lot of attacks going through the flanks either via drifting forwards, midfielders, or fullbacks. It also helps to set the tactical width as wide as possible through team instructions. Or to move the traditional bottom of the diamond DM player up into CM strata and thus push the wider midfielders more towards the flanks. That is one reason why I prefer using 4-3-1-2 variation of Narrow Diamond over its 4-1-2-1-2 form.

2) Opposition Counterattack. Your centrebacks and defensive midfielder are usually the only defence against counterattacks. And these can be devastating to a formation that has less cover on the wings. To mitigate this I like to inject a healthy dose of Mourinho into my tactic. One wingback/fullback becomes more defensively-minded. Let the Mezzala in-front of him do all of the offensive heavy lifting. Obviously, you will need the right players for both roles to make this risky gambit work and not bite you in the backside.

An example of a nice Mezzala. He can run, tackle, pass and shoot and cross pretty well. The only thing he is missing is above average dribbling. But then you cannot have everything in life haha.

3) Increased Player Fatigue. Notoriously narrow formations are thought to require extremely fit central midfielders to cover ground, and fullbacks who can bomb up and down the pitch with ease for the whole 90+ minute duration of the match in some case. This may put a strain on the players, resulting in a possible decrease in efficiency over the course of the game or season. But it does not have to be that way. By applying some of the principles of Defence-First Football, which I already implemented in my previous tactics, I can largely mitigate the effect of fatigue. Even with a more-attacking Narrow 442 I can still maintain low-intensity balanced strategy. In fact a lot of the instructions that used in my previous 4-2DM-3-1, Le Verrou 433 tactics are still present. Observe how the tactic's name is still Le Verrou. All I did is change and move some roles around. Alot of our important instructions remained the same. And most importantly the overall Tactical Intensity (in upper right corner, outlined in red) is still below the red zone. My players can often play for the whole match and take long time to go down below 70% condition. In the image above (of the Man City victory) you can see just how much better our overall physical conditioning was when compared to Man City players'.

So in the end, after you read all this, do you still need another reason to use a Narrow Diamond? Especially when seemingly everyone is using the same ultra-attacking, intensely pressing 433 or 4231 tactics? 1) Sometimes you just want to go against the grain and succeed with an unpopular less-used formation. It’s the same drive that attracts us to managing underdogs. Achievement is usually more satisfying when it arrives at the end of a challenge.

Thus I would like to present to you my rather simple tactic which nevertheless gets the job done for me. And is also very solid defensively in LaLiga. Most importantly it does not tire my players out for the whole 90 minute duration, unlike all those popular attacking gegenpress meta tactics.

Just Low-to-mid intensity mid-block Balanced tactic. No more than 3 attack duties. NO Counterpress. NO Highpressing/Get Stuck In, Highest Closing down typical gegenpress "exploity" instructions. Just instructions that would make sense in real football and channel AI into areas where your diamond holds the advantage. Trap the AI and force them to exhaust themselves hitting the wall while you hit them with quick crosses and smart movement into half-spaces. That's all it takes. And Narrow Diamond is just such a great set-up for this kind of football. Especially given how there are roles in FM that were designed and exist specifically with this formation in mind. I am looking at you, Complete Wingback, Mezzala and Carrilero.

PS: I also usually select "overlap right" to give a bit more attacking oumph to my CWB.

TO BE CONTINUED ...

He’s only gone and done it haha. Brilliant read. Like I said last time. Love the posts and especially this one 👍😊

Bahnzo · December 16, 2023

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

I think you misunderstand the concepts behind pressing in the game. We press intensely in our own half. Thats the whole point. It's not high pressing at all. Also high defensive line does not mean high pressing. What the combination of mid-block and high defensive line does is compress my defence, making it a more united close-knit unit in our own half that is really hard for opposition to break down while we can regain the ball much easier. Again none of what I'm doing can be considered highpressing where you actually "defend" aggressively in opponents half. Does that make more sense to you?

I've run into this a lot in my season in the 3.Liga (Germany). They have a lot of teams that play 3-5-2 and that compressed line is ROUGH sometimes. So much I'm considering it myself. Maybe there's your next one?

Bahnzo · December 16, 2023

dup post

Edited December 16, 2023 by Bahnzo

crusadertsar · December 17, 2023

3 hours ago, Bahnzo said:

I've run into this a lot in my season in the 3.Liga (Germany). They have a lot of teams that play 3-5-2 and that compressed line is ROUGH sometimes. So much I'm considering it myself. Maybe there's your next one?

I liked managing in 3rd Division in Germany back in the day. Hands Rostock was my go to team whenever i was looking for a save where you bring up club through the leagues. Great blue and white kit too. But they have been Bundesliga 2 for a few seasons now.

Edited December 17, 2023 by crusadertsar

mikcheck · December 17, 2023

@crusadertsarhow many times do you change your tactic during a season? Nice one tho. I've never had much success with wingerless tactics but the closest I've been to that was using a narrow 4-3-1-2.

Curious about the distribute to centre-backs and throw it long. Is that to also give the keeper an option to launch counter attacks?

crusadertsar · December 17, 2023

1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

@crusadertsarhow many times do you change your tactic during a season? Nice one tho. I've never had much success with wingerless tactics but the closest I've been to that was using a narrow 4-3-1-2.

Curious about the distribute to centre-backs and throw it long. Is that to also give the keeper an option to launch counter attacks?

Haha I gotta admit this year it took me longer to settle on a tactic that I really enjoy. Hence the frequent changes. But the 4-0 Man City win (and a few other results since like the most recent 1-1 Real Madrid draw) convinced me that this tactic might be it. It defends well but also does not compromise our attacking potential too much.

I always start out with distribute to centrebacks and throw long because I hate losing possession due to long kicks from my keeper. Absolutely hate it. And yes it's a good way to start counterattacks. Play out of defence instruction you have to be more careful with, however. For example, I removed it during both Man City and Real Madrid games because we were facing superior opponents who were pressing us hard in our own half. During such situations "play out of defence" becomes more of a liability. It's also usually a good idea to play with increased tempo in such situation.

Edited December 17, 2023 by crusadertsar

Counter9 · December 17, 2023

4 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Haha I gotta admit this year it took me longer to settle on a tactic that I really enjoy. Hence the frequent changes. But the 4-0 Man City win (and a few other results since like the most recent 1-1 Real Madrid draw) convinced me that this tactic might be it. It defends well but also does not compromise our attacking potential too much.

I always start out with distribute to centrebacks and throw long because I hate losing possession due to long kicks from my keeper. Absolutely hate it. And yes it's a good way to start counterattacks. Play out of defence instruction you have to be more careful with, however. For example, I removed it during both Man City and Real Madrid games because we were facing superior opponents who were pressing us hard in our own half. During such situations "play out of defence" becomes more of a liability. It's also usually a good idea to play with increased tempo in such situation.

Can you please tell me which attribute you focus on defenders and mid-fielders? and what is the minimum for LaLiga or EPL to play a defence first playstyle.

crusadertsar · December 17, 2023

25 minutes ago, Counter9 said:

Can you please tell me which attribute you focus on defenders and mid-fielders? and what is the minimum for LaLiga or EPL to play a defence first playstyle.

Regarding the attributes to focus on, you can read about that in my very first post in this thread. For LaLiga I usually look for minimum 13-15 (same for EPL) in the important attributes. Although higher is always ideal obviously.

Edited December 17, 2023 by crusadertsar

Sinbad7104 · December 17, 2023

On 16/12/2023 at 16:20, crusadertsar said:

Tactical Showcase - Narrow Diamond

I really got to stop changing my tactics mid-season. But that's the curse of an incessant tactical tinkerer. Although to spread some blame around, I was partly inspired by the comments from some of the followers in this thread. You know who you are

I really like the Narrow Diamond 442 for the two following reasons. It can be an exciting high-scoring tactic so I often switch to it when I just want to have some fun with a save and break some league records. Or just to underachieve as an underdog sometimes.

Secondly, and this plays into the fun part again, it gives me less headaches and feeling of uncertainty when it comes to role selection. I find that in wide formations I can never settle on the optimal wide roles selection. Lately FM has given us much to think about when it comes to our winger and fullback/wingback selection. There are just so many roles and combinations that can work together! And it's made even building a simple 433 a potentially daunting task. Especially, If you are a tinkerer who obsesses about every detail in the tactic and want to make it as efficient as possible. If you are like me then with certain formations you will never feel like your tactic is complete.

Well, with a Narrow Diamond there are no wingers and it actually brings me some peace of mind. To me Narrow Diamond is a definition of FM-Zen.

It is kind of funny how by limiting a tactic you can actually make it easier to set up and understand. I guess I am a minimalist at heart who seeks a break from some of the tactical complexity involved in FM tactical creation. Another reason that Narrow Diamond is so easy to create and work with is because some of the roles that work really well in it just MAKE SENSE in this formation. In some ways, they were designed with a narrow formation in mind. So while there are so many things that you can do wrong in tactical crafting, at least you can feel confident that you cannot really mess up your role selection.

But I am getting ahead of myself. Before you decide that you want to give Narrow Diamond a try, you need to see if your current squad is even capable of this formation. Like I mentioned before it is not a very demanding formation as it already cuts down your shopping list in terms of the wide attacker department. Nevertheless there is still a shopping list of requirements for a good balanced Narrow Diamond. A say "Balanced" because my objective in this tread still remains to showcase Defensively-responsible tactics. So naturally my Narrow Diamond will be more like Mourinho's Porto rather than Ancelotti's Real Madrid.

My Defence-First Narrow Diamond Requirements:

1) Complementary Wingbacks - One Complete Wingback who is very capable in attack. Another wingback should be more defence-conscious. So while one pushes aggressively forward the other can cover for him (and allow other players in your formation to be more attacking).

2) Hard-Working Specialized Midfielders. The midfield diamond is essential to this formation so naturally we need very good players here. BUT as an underdog you can get away with lesser quality players here IF they are: 1) Hard-Working Teamplayers and 2) Complement each other's strengths. That is having 3 midfielders who individually can fill the 3 roles of Runner/Water Carrier, Destroyer and Creator, without necessarily having players that can fit all three roles themselves. When managing on a budget you want hard-working specialists to fill your diamond, not total footballers.

3) AMC Wildcard Player (Creative and Attacking). This is the role that is missing from the standard flat 4-4-2 and it's arguably what makes Narrow 4-4-2 so special. Because it could be a player that contributes to both attack and creative support. If your team is lucky to have one, then you could stick your playmaking wizard here, the fantasista player, the creative mastermind through whom most the attacks can be channeled.

Roberto Baggio, the famous #10 often comes to mind as a perfect example of this role. In fact, Italian soil has been quite fruitful in yielding some of the best #10s in recent memory. AS Roma's Totti was another one. Anyway, you get my point.

Even Jose Mourinho had his own talismanic fantasista wildcard player at Porto, Deco. Also your AMC does not necessarily have to be a playmaker. Personally, I am rather partial to Shadow Strikers. And that is one role that absolutely thrive in a Narrow Diamond. I will explain more of that later. We are not finished with our Narrow Diamond shopping list.

4) Finally for a successful Narrow Diamond, you will need a strong pairing in central defence. Since enemy attacks will come often via crosses from the flanks, you cannot get away with less quality here. Your centrebacks will need to be among your best players, if not outright stars of the team. Or at least try to get ones with better than league average for their defensive attributes (such as the mental and physical ones I mentioned in my very first post in this thread).

And once you have your shopping list, it leads us to the strengths and weaknesses/limitations of the Narrow Diamond. Because why proceed with this formation? Is it worth the trouble, given its obvious width limitations?

YES! It is very much worth it. In fact, I noticed that recently on this forum some misleading information has been floating around. Some people are claiming that Narrow formations like 442 Narrow Diamond are somehow weaker and flawed in the current match engine. Well that is very far from truth. And I would very much like to dispel this misinformation. But at the same time one has to be objective. Narrow Diamond is not a perfect formation by any means. No shape in football is perfect actually. Likewise Narrow 442 has its limitations. Luckily some of these can be mitigate by clever use of roles and instructions. But once again more on that later.

Strengths:

1) Defensive Stability. One of the benefits of a midfield diamond is that one midfielder (usually the central one at the lower tip of the diamond) can be tasked with supporting the defence and drop deeper to form a passing triangle with the centrebacks. This can both help stop opposition attacks through the middle, help deal with crosses (if the player is tall) and aid in bringing the ball up from defence. By having a dedicated defensive midfielder, the Narrow Diamond sacrifices some attacking potential to ensure defensive stability. Which, given my aim of Defence-First Football, is perfectly fine. This extra man, the DM (or middle CM) destroyer, can easily step back into defence to act as the fifth defender if the team is under pressure. In some tactics (depending on the roles and instructions used) it can even lead to a transition in the form of a defensive 5-3-2. And thankfully to the Positional Play changes in FM24 match engine, such transitions are easier than ever to set up.

2) Midfield Control. Pretty self-explanatory. Three midfielders are always better than two when it comes to "bossing" the midfield and controlling the ball. It's even better when you have a hard-working AMC dropping deeper to help support as well. A player with high Workrate attribute will do so even in a seemingly ultra-attacking roles like Shadow Striker. "Comes deep to get the ball" trait can also help in increasing this behaviour. Furthermore, four midfielders ensure that there is no space for the opposition to string together passes in the build-up, which ultimately leaves them with two options — the long ball or cross from the flank. And luckily for us, there are specific team instructions that can help us deal with those two modes of attack pretty easily.

3) Boosted Attack. It is no secret that Narrow Diamond 442 can be an attacking formation on steroids. Afterall, you can essentially operate with two strikers and one shadow strikers. Albait the variaton of roles and duties is very important here since you will want to make sure that each of your final third attackers is doing something different that complements what the other two are doing. No 2-3 Advanced Forwards in my tactics, ever. You can try that, but that would be cheating and what's the fun in that?

Weaknesses:

To note here is that while Narrow Diamond has some clear weakness, they can all be mitigated to a certain degree. You may not be able to cancel them out completely but at least make them less of a liability. The important thing is to take advantage of the strengths to help you win games while reducing the weaknesses by specifically addressing the limitations.

1) Lack of Width. Another pretty obvious one. The Narrow Diamond is a very narrow formation due to the lack of wide players. But this can be addressed pretty easily through selection of roles. Having forwards (or AMC) which drift wide and move into channels. Some midfield roles such as Mezzala and Carrilero are also programmed to do exactly that and that is the reason why they are ideal for narrow formations. Similarly some wingback roles like CWB are designed to use the full extent of the flank. So even in a narrow formation, you can have a lot of attacks going through the flanks either via drifting forwards, midfielders, or fullbacks. It also helps to set the tactical width as wide as possible through team instructions. Or to move the traditional bottom of the diamond DM player up into CM strata and thus push the wider midfielders more towards the flanks. That is one reason why I prefer using 4-3-1-2 variation of Narrow Diamond over its 4-1-2-1-2 form.

2) Opposition Counterattack. Your centrebacks and defensive midfielder are usually the only defence against counterattacks. And these can be devastating to a formation that has less cover on the wings. To mitigate this I like to inject a healthy dose of Mourinho into my tactic. One wingback/fullback becomes more defensively-minded. Let the Mezzala in-front of him do all of the offensive heavy lifting. Obviously, you will need the right players for both roles to make this risky gambit work and not bite you in the backside.

An example of a nice Mezzala. He can run, tackle, pass and shoot and cross pretty well. The only thing he is missing is above average dribbling. But then you cannot have everything in life haha.

3) Increased Player Fatigue. Notoriously narrow formations are thought to require extremely fit central midfielders to cover ground, and fullbacks who can bomb up and down the pitch with ease for the whole 90+ minute duration of the match in some case. This may put a strain on the players, resulting in a possible decrease in efficiency over the course of the game or season. But it does not have to be that way. By applying some of the principles of Defence-First Football, which I already implemented in my previous tactics, I can largely mitigate the effect of fatigue. Even with a more-attacking Narrow 442 I can still maintain low-intensity balanced strategy. In fact a lot of the instructions that used in my previous 4-2DM-3-1, Le Verrou 433 tactics are still present. Observe how the tactic's name is still Le Verrou. All I did is change and move some roles around. Alot of our important instructions remained the same. And most importantly the overall Tactical Intensity (in upper right corner, outlined in red) is still below the red zone. My players can often play for the whole match and take long time to go down below 70% condition. In the image above (of the Man City victory) you can see just how much better our overall physical conditioning was when compared to Man City players'.

So in the end, after you read all this, do you still need another reason to use a Narrow Diamond? Especially when seemingly everyone is using the same ultra-attacking, intensely pressing 433 or 4231 tactics? 1) Sometimes you just want to go against the grain and succeed with an unpopular less-used formation. It’s the same drive that attracts us to managing underdogs. Achievement is usually more satisfying when it arrives at the end of a challenge.

Thus I would like to present to you my rather simple tactic which nevertheless gets the job done for me. And is also very solid defensively in LaLiga. Most importantly it does not tire my players out for the whole 90 minute duration, unlike all those popular attacking gegenpress meta tactics.

Just Low-to-mid intensity mid-block Balanced tactic. No more than 3 attack duties. NO Counterpress. NO Highpressing/Get Stuck In, Highest Closing down typical gegenpress "exploity" instructions. Just instructions that would make sense in real football and channel AI into areas where your diamond holds the advantage. Trap the AI and force them to exhaust themselves hitting the wall while you hit them with quick crosses and smart movement into half-spaces. That's all it takes. And Narrow Diamond is just such a great set-up for this kind of football. Especially given how there are roles in FM that were designed and exist specifically with this formation in mind. I am looking at you, Complete Wingback, Mezzala and Carrilero.

PS: I also usually select "overlap right" to give a bit more attacking oumph to my CWB.

TO BE CONTINUED ...

Loving this the few times i've switched to it. I was going to wait until next season to move over fully but i might just make the jump now.

One little question if i may? How would you go about chasing a goal. Normally i'd start making the attaccking width wider, hitting early crosses and being more expressive but thats already in play here. Im guessing it would be a case of pushing the lines up, Maybe quicker and more direct play into space? I Imainge taking regroup off and going on counter would leave us fairly vunerable. TI's have never been my strong point.

Cheers

crusadertsar · December 18, 2023

1 hour ago, Sinbad7104 said:

Loving this the few times i've switched to it. I was going to wait until next season to move over fully but i might just make the jump now.

One little question if i may? How would you go about chasing a goal. Normally i'd start making the attaccking width wider, hitting early crosses and being more expressive but thats already in play here. Im guessing it would be a case of pushing the lines up, Maybe quicker and more direct play into space? I Imainge taking regroup off and going on counter would leave us fairly vunerable. TI's have never been my strong point.

Cheers

Yes. Maybe not pushing the lines higher but taking off short passing and going more direct. Also for me going slower tempo actually works better against teams that are parking the bus. By giving my players more time on the ball, it allows them more chances to pick those stubborn defences apart. Although it's never a sure thing when facing an ultra defensive formation.

Edited December 18, 2023 by crusadertsar

crusadertsar · December 18, 2023

This makes me really happy to see. It's a good sign of things if our primary goal-keeper has won Top World Keeper award. Meaning the tactic is doing something right defensively. I mean Remiro is still a pretty good keeper, just not on the same level as ter Stegen or Ederson. Yet he still managed to beat them in clean sheets and fewest goals conceeded statistics.

Edited December 18, 2023 by crusadertsar

TheMartello · December 18, 2023

@crusadertsar Do you use any player instructions in the narrow diamond?

crusadertsar · December 18, 2023

43 minutes ago, TheMartello said:

@crusadertsar Do you use any player instructions in the narrow diamond?

Nope. None at the moment.

Joshr977 · December 19, 2023

Great stuff again mate, very enjoyable read. Definitely given me some ideas to take into my own save! Thank you again.

ultrAslan · December 21, 2023

@crusadertsar What kind of changes do you do when the AI just getting tired in the 70th minute? What kind of team instructions or player role and duty changes do you do to give them a payback?

When you play against a better opponent, do you change something when you are getting a lot of pressure from the opponent like changing the defensive line or line of engagement? Or when you spot from the beginning that they have fast players or a fast striker/tall strong forward player?

crusadertsar · December 22, 2023

21 hours ago, ultrAslan said:

@crusadertsar What kind of changes do you do when the AI just getting tired in the 70th minute? What kind of team instructions or player role and duty changes do you do to give them a payback?

When you play against a better opponent, do you change something when you are getting a lot of pressure from the opponent like changing the defensive line or line of engagement? Or when you spot from the beginning that they have fast players or a fast striker/tall strong forward player?

I don't make any changes when AI is getting tired. Against better opponents, like in that Man City game, I tend to remove "play out of the back", increase the tempo and drop defensive line from high to standard. That's pretty much it. In the game I am not as much of a reactive opponent as Jose Mourinho would be haha. Although I do tend to watch most matches on comprehensive highlights to see how the match develops and not to miss any serious problems.

dzek · December 23, 2023

14 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

I don't make any changes when AI is getting tired. Against better opponents, like in that Man City game, I tend to remove "play out of the back", increase the tempo and drop defensive line from high to standard. That's pretty much it. In the game I am not as much of a reactive opponent as Jose Mourinho would be haha. Although I do tend to watch most matches on comprehensive highlights to see how the match develops and not to miss any serious problems.

Why are you removing “play out of defence”? Wouldn't it help better possession of the ball against the big teams?

Manden · December 23, 2023

1 hour ago, dzek said:

Why are you removing “play out of defence”? Wouldn't it help better possession of the ball against the big teams?

Against high quality and high pressing teams, you dont want your defenders spending too much time on the ball.

Removing play out of defence and playing faster (higher tempo) there is less risk of them loosing the ball. Of course there is a higher risk of a bad pass with higher tempo, but these will usually be from defence to midfield or attack, and loosing the ball higher up the pitch carries less risk than your CB getting tackled.

dzek · December 23, 2023

19 minutes ago, Manden said:

Against high quality and high pressing teams, you dont want your defenders spending too much time on the ball.

Removing play out of defence and playing faster (higher tempo) there is less risk of them loosing the ball. Of course there is a higher risk of a bad pass with higher tempo, but these will usually be from defence to midfield or attack, and loosing the ball higher up the pitch carries less risk than your CB getting tackled.

It makes sense but if you have two BPD with the PI ‘dribble more’ then I think you can bypass their high pressing.

Edited December 23, 2023 by dzek

Manden · December 23, 2023

8 minutes ago, dzek said:

It makes sense but if you have two BPD with the PI ‘dribble more’ then I think you can bypass their high pressing.

Agreed, it all depends on the quality of your defenders vs their attackers

77charisma77 · December 23, 2023

This is a loose interpretation of Mourinho's Real Madrid tactic; but I'm having problems making the Ronaldo/IW score more.

Another point worth noting is that once the team progresses to the midfield, the play gets fast but there aren't enough bodies going forward.

I know both issues are due to the deep formation but I'd like to keep it. Any suggestions regarding the roles/duties/TIs/PIs?

The IW only has the Sit Narrower PI.

Edited December 23, 2023 by 77charisma77

crusadertsar · December 23, 2023

2 hours ago, dzek said:

It makes sense but if you have two BPD with the PI ‘dribble more’ then I think you can bypass their high pressing.

Sure you could bypass. But in my book it carries more risk. And I'm more Mourinho than Guardiola in my management haha. Especially when we are Real Sociedad and we are being pressed by the likes of Haaland. I rather play it safe by not lingering too much in my own zone. It's also like @Manden said depends very much on quality of the players. In 2nd season in game I don't think I have the defenders to dribble against the top teams. But you can definitely play the way you propose.

theperfect · December 23, 2023

Hello crusadertsar. You inspired me for the tactics I used in my Fenerbahçe career. I am a Jose Mourinho fan. That's why I don't like to concede too many goals in my matches. I like my opponent to be desperate to score. But on the other hand, I had to be strong in attack. Then I created this tactic.

Conceded 6 goals in 15 matches in the league. Didn't expect to score 47 goals. I finally achieved what I wanted

TheMartello · December 23, 2023

3 hours ago, theperfect said:

Hello crusadertsar. You inspired me for the tactics I used in my Fenerbahçe career. I am a Jose Mourinho fan. That's why I don't like to concede too many goals in my matches. I like my opponent to be desperate to score. But on the other hand, I had to be strong in attack. Then I created this tactic.

Conceded 6 goals in 15 matches in the league. Didn't expect to score 47 goals. I finally achieved what I wanted

Did you use Player Instructions?

ultrAslan · December 24, 2023

20 hours ago, theperfect said:

Hello crusadertsar. You inspired me for the tactics I used in my Fenerbahçe career. I am a Jose Mourinho fan. That's why I don't like to concede too many goals in my matches. I like my opponent to be desperate to score. But on the other hand, I had to be strong in attack. Then I created this tactic.

Turkish League is easy with a top tier club. Any system or shape works and after a couple of years there is no real opponent and gets boring. The AI is very bad at making transfers and the clubs are very easy to beat. Most challenging part of the Turkish Clubs is to win a cup outside the borders. Thats the reason why I am following this thread to beat the giants in Europe and bring the cup with the long ears at home.

AzrulMaulud · December 24, 2023

hi,
ever since leicester city and atletico madrid won the league i'm kinda attracted to this style of play. pragmatic. simple and "go-on-have-the-ball". they won the league surrounded by team who tends to play possession football. listening to my friends talking about how they won the league with bournemouth playing gegenpressing/tikitaka/everyboddy-must-touch-the-ball football made me go "ughhh".

i stumbled on your old post for the previous FM, but i wasnt playing FM at that time so i just read and forget. this year i read through everything again and try your approach.

i'm on a run to try and "knock manchester united out of their perch" with fc united. i tend (ALWAYS) starts with lowest license and past experience when i start a game. this made it a bit harder to sign players that was needed to run this pragmatic approach. my first 3 seasons made me give up on this approach midway through the season. i had no problem scoring goals, but i conceded a lot (60+ per seasons, 3 seasons straight) despite running the defence first approach. now on my 4th season i think i managed to have the right players i think managed to get this thing to work.

i use a 352 formation because i havent manage to get any wingers to play properly since the pass few FMs. i sometimes drop the CMd to DM position depends on the opposition. i wanted to try and have less of the ball but most of the time i'll concede goals and draw the match despite making changes to try and be more solid at the back. so here's my tactic and mid season result. (i played my 2nd best players on cup matches so i would lose. the squad is not big/good enough to try and win everything). my target is not to concede 30 goals per season.

no OI/PI except wingbacks on mark tighter

an old willy manager once said "attack wins you games. defence wins you titles".

p/s: i would love to see a 442 formation (flat/dm) trying the approach. mine is too inconsistent.

Sinbad7104 · December 25, 2023

On 16/12/2023 at 16:20, crusadertsar said:

Tactical Showcase - Narrow Diamond

I really got to stop changing my tactics mid-season. But that's the curse of an incessant tactical tinkerer. Although to spread some blame around, I was partly inspired by the comments from some of the followers in this thread. You know who you are

I really like the Narrow Diamond 442 for the two following reasons. It can be an exciting high-scoring tactic so I often switch to it when I just want to have some fun with a save and break some league records. Or just to underachieve as an underdog sometimes.

Secondly, and this plays into the fun part again, it gives me less headaches and feeling of uncertainty when it comes to role selection. I find that in wide formations I can never settle on the optimal wide roles selection. Lately FM has given us much to think about when it comes to our winger and fullback/wingback selection. There are just so many roles and combinations that can work together! And it's made even building a simple 433 a potentially daunting task. Especially, If you are a tinkerer who obsesses about every detail in the tactic and want to make it as efficient as possible. If you are like me then with certain formations you will never feel like your tactic is complete.

Well, with a Narrow Diamond there are no wingers and it actually brings me some peace of mind. To me Narrow Diamond is a definition of FM-Zen.

It is kind of funny how by limiting a tactic you can actually make it easier to set up and understand. I guess I am a minimalist at heart who seeks a break from some of the tactical complexity involved in FM tactical creation. Another reason that Narrow Diamond is so easy to create and work with is because some of the roles that work really well in it just MAKE SENSE in this formation. In some ways, they were designed with a narrow formation in mind. So while there are so many things that you can do wrong in tactical crafting, at least you can feel confident that you cannot really mess up your role selection.

But I am getting ahead of myself. Before you decide that you want to give Narrow Diamond a try, you need to see if your current squad is even capable of this formation. Like I mentioned before it is not a very demanding formation as it already cuts down your shopping list in terms of the wide attacker department. Nevertheless there is still a shopping list of requirements for a good balanced Narrow Diamond. A say "Balanced" because my objective in this tread still remains to showcase Defensively-responsible tactics. So naturally my Narrow Diamond will be more like Mourinho's Porto rather than Ancelotti's Real Madrid.

My Defence-First Narrow Diamond Requirements:

1) Complementary Wingbacks - One Complete Wingback who is very capable in attack. Another wingback should be more defence-conscious. So while one pushes aggressively forward the other can cover for him (and allow other players in your formation to be more attacking).

2) Hard-Working Specialized Midfielders. The midfield diamond is essential to this formation so naturally we need very good players here. BUT as an underdog you can get away with lesser quality players here IF they are: 1) Hard-Working Teamplayers and 2) Complement each other's strengths. That is having 3 midfielders who individually can fill the 3 roles of Runner/Water Carrier, Destroyer and Creator, without necessarily having players that can fit all three roles themselves. When managing on a budget you want hard-working specialists to fill your diamond, not total footballers.

3) AMC Wildcard Player (Creative and Attacking). This is the role that is missing from the standard flat 4-4-2 and it's arguably what makes Narrow 4-4-2 so special. Because it could be a player that contributes to both attack and creative support. If your team is lucky to have one, then you could stick your playmaking wizard here, the fantasista player, the creative mastermind through whom most the attacks can be channeled.

Roberto Baggio, the famous #10 often comes to mind as a perfect example of this role. In fact, Italian soil has been quite fruitful in yielding some of the best #10s in recent memory. AS Roma's Totti was another one. Anyway, you get my point.

Even Jose Mourinho had his own talismanic fantasista wildcard player at Porto, Deco. Also your AMC does not necessarily have to be a playmaker. Personally, I am rather partial to Shadow Strikers. And that is one role that absolutely thrive in a Narrow Diamond. I will explain more of that later. We are not finished with our Narrow Diamond shopping list.

4) Finally for a successful Narrow Diamond, you will need a strong pairing in central defence. Since enemy attacks will come often via crosses from the flanks, you cannot get away with less quality here. Your centrebacks will need to be among your best players, if not outright stars of the team. Or at least try to get ones with better than league average for their defensive attributes (such as the mental and physical ones I mentioned in my very first post in this thread).

And once you have your shopping list, it leads us to the strengths and weaknesses/limitations of the Narrow Diamond. Because why proceed with this formation? Is it worth the trouble, given its obvious width limitations?

YES! It is very much worth it. In fact, I noticed that recently on this forum some misleading information has been floating around. Some people are claiming that Narrow formations like 442 Narrow Diamond are somehow weaker and flawed in the current match engine. Well that is very far from truth. And I would very much like to dispel this misinformation. But at the same time one has to be objective. Narrow Diamond is not a perfect formation by any means. No shape in football is perfect actually. Likewise Narrow 442 has its limitations. Luckily some of these can be mitigate by clever use of roles and instructions. But once again more on that later.

Strengths:

1) Defensive Stability. One of the benefits of a midfield diamond is that one midfielder (usually the central one at the lower tip of the diamond) can be tasked with supporting the defence and drop deeper to form a passing triangle with the centrebacks. This can both help stop opposition attacks through the middle, help deal with crosses (if the player is tall) and aid in bringing the ball up from defence. By having a dedicated defensive midfielder, the Narrow Diamond sacrifices some attacking potential to ensure defensive stability. Which, given my aim of Defence-First Football, is perfectly fine. This extra man, the DM (or middle CM) destroyer, can easily step back into defence to act as the fifth defender if the team is under pressure. In some tactics (depending on the roles and instructions used) it can even lead to a transition in the form of a defensive 5-3-2. And thankfully to the Positional Play changes in FM24 match engine, such transitions are easier than ever to set up.

2) Midfield Control. Pretty self-explanatory. Three midfielders are always better than two when it comes to "bossing" the midfield and controlling the ball. It's even better when you have a hard-working AMC dropping deeper to help support as well. A player with high Workrate attribute will do so even in a seemingly ultra-attacking roles like Shadow Striker. "Comes deep to get the ball" trait can also help in increasing this behaviour. Furthermore, four midfielders ensure that there is no space for the opposition to string together passes in the build-up, which ultimately leaves them with two options — the long ball or cross from the flank. And luckily for us, there are specific team instructions that can help us deal with those two modes of attack pretty easily.

3) Boosted Attack. It is no secret that Narrow Diamond 442 can be an attacking formation on steroids. Afterall, you can essentially operate with two strikers and one shadow strikers. Albait the variaton of roles and duties is very important here since you will want to make sure that each of your final third attackers is doing something different that complements what the other two are doing. No 2-3 Advanced Forwards in my tactics, ever. You can try that, but that would be cheating and what's the fun in that?

Weaknesses:

To note here is that while Narrow Diamond has some clear weakness, they can all be mitigated to a certain degree. You may not be able to cancel them out completely but at least make them less of a liability. The important thing is to take advantage of the strengths to help you win games while reducing the weaknesses by specifically addressing the limitations.

1) Lack of Width. Another pretty obvious one. The Narrow Diamond is a very narrow formation due to the lack of wide players. But this can be addressed pretty easily through selection of roles. Having forwards (or AMC) which drift wide and move into channels. Some midfield roles such as Mezzala and Carrilero are also programmed to do exactly that and that is the reason why they are ideal for narrow formations. Similarly some wingback roles like CWB are designed to use the full extent of the flank. So even in a narrow formation, you can have a lot of attacks going through the flanks either via drifting forwards, midfielders, or fullbacks. It also helps to set the tactical width as wide as possible through team instructions. Or to move the traditional bottom of the diamond DM player up into CM strata and thus push the wider midfielders more towards the flanks. That is one reason why I prefer using 4-3-1-2 variation of Narrow Diamond over its 4-1-2-1-2 form.

2) Opposition Counterattack. Your centrebacks and defensive midfielder are usually the only defence against counterattacks. And these can be devastating to a formation that has less cover on the wings. To mitigate this I like to inject a healthy dose of Mourinho into my tactic. One wingback/fullback becomes more defensively-minded. Let the Mezzala in-front of him do all of the offensive heavy lifting. Obviously, you will need the right players for both roles to make this risky gambit work and not bite you in the backside.

An example of a nice Mezzala. He can run, tackle, pass and shoot and cross pretty well. The only thing he is missing is above average dribbling. But then you cannot have everything in life haha.

3) Increased Player Fatigue. Notoriously narrow formations are thought to require extremely fit central midfielders to cover ground, and fullbacks who can bomb up and down the pitch with ease for the whole 90+ minute duration of the match in some case. This may put a strain on the players, resulting in a possible decrease in efficiency over the course of the game or season. But it does not have to be that way. By applying some of the principles of Defence-First Football, which I already implemented in my previous tactics, I can largely mitigate the effect of fatigue. Even with a more-attacking Narrow 442 I can still maintain low-intensity balanced strategy. In fact a lot of the instructions that used in my previous 4-2DM-3-1, Le Verrou 433 tactics are still present. Observe how the tactic's name is still Le Verrou. All I did is change and move some roles around. Alot of our important instructions remained the same. And most importantly the overall Tactical Intensity (in upper right corner, outlined in red) is still below the red zone. My players can often play for the whole match and take long time to go down below 70% condition. In the image above (of the Man City victory) you can see just how much better our overall physical conditioning was when compared to Man City players'.

So in the end, after you read all this, do you still need another reason to use a Narrow Diamond? Especially when seemingly everyone is using the same ultra-attacking, intensely pressing 433 or 4231 tactics? 1) Sometimes you just want to go against the grain and succeed with an unpopular less-used formation. It’s the same drive that attracts us to managing underdogs. Achievement is usually more satisfying when it arrives at the end of a challenge.

Thus I would like to present to you my rather simple tactic which nevertheless gets the job done for me. And is also very solid defensively in LaLiga. Most importantly it does not tire my players out for the whole 90 minute duration, unlike all those popular attacking gegenpress meta tactics.

Just Low-to-mid intensity mid-block Balanced tactic. No more than 3 attack duties. NO Counterpress. NO Highpressing/Get Stuck In, Highest Closing down typical gegenpress "exploity" instructions. Just instructions that would make sense in real football and channel AI into areas where your diamond holds the advantage. Trap the AI and force them to exhaust themselves hitting the wall while you hit them with quick crosses and smart movement into half-spaces. That's all it takes. And Narrow Diamond is just such a great set-up for this kind of football. Especially given how there are roles in FM that were designed and exist specifically with this formation in mind. I am looking at you, Complete Wingback, Mezzala and Carrilero.

PS: I also usually select "overlap right" to give a bit more attacking oumph to my CWB.

TO BE CONTINUED ...

im curious about why you chose to use the PF-S, is that just because of the player profile you had? or looking for him to do a certain job? i would of thought you'd want a role that drops deeper and lets the SS push pass him. Im finding it to play like a more lopsided 433 narrow as it stands but im training my PF-S to come deeper to see if that helps create that diamond shape.

Either way its been doing great for me.

crusadertsar · December 25, 2023

10 hours ago, Sinbad7104 said:

im curious about why you chose to use the PF-S, is that just because of the player profile you had? or looking for him to do a certain job? i would of thought you'd want a role that drops deeper and lets the SS push pass him. Im finding it to play like a more lopsided 433 narrow as it stands but im training my PF-S to come deeper to see if that helps create that diamond shape.

Either way its been doing great for me.

I don't need my PF to drop deeper. Mezzala is the main linking player between our midfield and attack. Although my PF still tends to come deep most of the time because he is very hard working player (Oyarzabal). In my tactic I needed a central striker that would hold up the ball and not move into channels (because AF and Shadow Striker already move into channels). PF(S) is one of the few striker roles that does both of those things. So it was a pretty simple choice.

mikcheck · December 25, 2023

@crusadertsar have you been playing? Keeping the same system?

crusadertsar · December 25, 2023

14 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

@crusadertsar have you been playing? Keeping the same system?

Yup. Just finished 2nd season with the narrow system. 3rd position again and yet another year of Champions League football coming up. So a success in my books. Still cannot break Real Madrid, Barcelona stranglehold. But that will come eventually with better players.

Looking to write about this soon after the holidays.

DavutOzkan · December 26, 2023

Any interpretations of defence-first football for a 4-2-3-1 formation?

ultrAslan · December 27, 2023

What kind of opposition instructions are you using against the big fellas when you are the underdog?

crusadertsar · December 27, 2023

7 hours ago, ultrAslan said:

What kind of opposition instructions are you using against the big fellas when you are the underdog?

None whatsoever. I never use any opposition instructions. Never saw the need for that kind of micromanagement as my tactics tend to work just fine without.

That 4-0 Man City win - no opposition instructions. Smart use of shouts, strategic team instruction adjustments (such as tempo changes or removing build from back to better deal with high pressing teams) and late subs to throw in some fresh attackers when the opposition is tired are the things that win those types of games for you. Not opposition instructions. Your players don't follow them very well anyway and they tend to do more harm than good. In my experience.

They do work for some people, mind you. BUT you have to really know what you are doing and adjust every little minute detail for each opposition (and often make multiple adjustments during same match). And depending on which of your players are playing. Same as with set pieces. They can make a positive impact but takes a lot of work and time to get right. And if done half-assed can do more harm than good.

Edited December 27, 2023 by crusadertsar

CowGoesMehhh · December 28, 2023

I tried this tactic with Chelsea. I understand you need the right players but I always see the opponent able to dribble through my midfield easily. My midfield won't press at all.

My midfield 3 is enzo, caicedo and Gallagher.

Not sure if you see it in your games.

Also, will it work if I don't do the assymetry for the front 3?

crusadertsar · December 28, 2023

1 hour ago, CowGoesMehhh said:

I tried this tactic with Chelsea. I understand you need the right players but I always see the opponent able to dribble through my midfield easily. My midfield won't press at all.

My midfield 3 is enzo, caicedo and Gallagher.

Not sure if you see it in your games.

Also, will it work if I don't do the assymetry for the front 3?

It's not really supposed to be a plug-and-win tactic. I designed it specifically with Real Sociedad players in mind. I have not managed in Premier League in years so I'm not really familiar with the players you mentioned but my first question would be if they possess sufficient mental attributes for Defence-First football. Like I outlined in the first post of this thread. Also, which opponents are dribbling through you easily? If it's Liverpool and Man City then it's quite normal. If it's Bournemouth then I would be worried. Make sure to have high tempo selected and play out of the back deselected when engaging such opponents. Also maybe reduce tactical width to normal rather then wide.

theperfect · December 28, 2023

On 24.12.2023 at 17:41, ultrAslan said:

Turkish League is easy with a top tier club. Any system or shape works and after a couple of years there is no real opponent and gets boring. The AI is very bad at making transfers and the clubs are very easy to beat. Most challenging part of the Turkish Clubs is to win a cup outside the borders. Thats the reason why I am following this thread to beat the giants in Europe and bring the cup with the long ears at home.

I finished 1 season with this tactic. I am also a coach at Juventus. I will inform you about it at the end of the season.

I won the conference league cup with a crushing score of 5-1 in the final. I can't wait for the Champions League.

crusadertsar · December 29, 2023

End of Season 2 Update: Continuing with Narrow Diamond Tactic

Hopefully everyone is having a very nice holiday period I thought I would give you guys a little summary of how my team improved tactically after the end of 2nd full season. Just below you can see my team stats from last season. I mainly used my initial 4411tactic for the majority of the games in that season. Our defensive stats were very good as expected with Defence-First focus. But offensive ones such as goals scored and number of points (especially wins) we got in the season definitely left something to be desired.

Now below our current, almost a year later, stats present an interesting picture, both very similar and at the same different from last season. Despite the switch to a more top-heavy and risky 4-4-2 Narrow Diamond tactic, our defensive solidity remained largely unchanged. We conceded 2 more goals but still maintained same spectacular record in number of yellow (15) and red (none!) cards received. Discipline is definitely not an issue with this squad. Our 1st choice keeper Alex Remiro played a big part in maintaining this defensive record. In his 30 LaLiga appearances he only conceeded 24 times and racked up an impressive 18 clean sheets. It was also the season when he won World Goalkeeper of the Year award for the first time in his career.

But as impressive as our defensive record has been, it's attacking output that I'm most impressed with. Our top striker Sadiq almost doubled his goal output in the same number of games! Overall, the team scored 10 more goals than last year and more importantly won 8 more league games. Despite this, we could not improve on last season's 3rd place finish. But that speaks more for the quality of competition in LaLiga rather than failings on our part. Funnily enough, our 84 points in this season would have probably won us the league title in previous season where Barcelona won it with the same amount (and less goals scored).

I feel like after this sophomore season with Real Socieadad, I finally settled on a tactic that is very well balanced in both defence and attack. And despite the name of this thread, that is the ultimate aim of my tactical system. It is not to neglect offence in favour of defence. Rather by keeping strong attack, your players will have an easier time defending. But if you sit back passively near your own goal you will be letting opposition a free reign to bombard you with shots. At the same time I am not preaching high pressing attacking game here. Rather I just want my players to be very difficult to break down in our own half by maintaining a rather aggressive midblock. And use it as a solid platform to launch fluid counters into the opposition half.

In this update, I hope to cast a bit more light on how my tactical change allowed the team to be more dangerous in offence while maintaining same solid defence. Hopefully this will aid you in your own tactical endeavors in FM24. So without further ado, I will try to show what I do to help my teams to score more goals in FM24. I generally follow 2 simple rules:

1) Don’t Put All Your Eggs in One-Basket

I see the following question asked often on the SI’s Football Manager forum. How can I make this player into my primary goal-scorer? Or how can I get my central striker to score more goals? Or any number of the variations on the same theme. I think that no matter which answer you choose, it will always be wrong. Simply because the original question is wrong. If you want long-term success in FM24 you should not be asking how to get a specific player to score more goals but instead how to get your whole team to score more goals. Tactics are best when they are designed with multiple avenues to goals. The more the better.

For example in this tactic, the goal-scoring responsibility is shared between Advanced Forward, Pressing Forward, Shadow Striker and, to a lesser degree, Mezzala. Also, dur to the variety of roles, we can also inject variety in the types of goals they can score. In AF role you can slot your tall target-forward-type striker. So he can take advantage of all the crosses coming from your wide players. He is the most forward of your attackers and thus a big header threat for the opposition. The Mezzala role is where you can place your longshooting expert. He can arrive late into the penalty area and finish off any chances created by the more advance players. On the other hand, the Shadow Striker role is best used by an intelligent player with exceptional Off-the-ball and other mental attributes, such as anticipation and work rate (good to have but not necessary). He will act as another deeper threat by finding open spaces not already used by your other attackers or opposition defenders. Thus these three modes of attack ensure that your opponent is constantly dealing with goals-scoring threats. They cannot become too complacent in their defending. Any lapse in concentration (or eventual fatigue, especially given how strong AI teams tend to play) will give you a chance to go one goal up. And if the opposition tries to close down any one attacking player, there will be at least two others that are unmarked.

Using different roles for your attacking players also ensures that they are occupying and moving into different spaces on the pitch. I am a big fan of organizing three-pronged attacking formations. You might remember me writing quite a bit on this in FM22 and FM23 (specifically in context of 433 formation).

But 442 Narrow Diamond could also offer a three pronged attack potential. Why am I obsessed with having three attackers you might ask? Well, in any tactical system, irrespective of the actual formation, I like to have mu attacking players occupying each of the two half-spaces as well as the central space.

2) Good Goalscorers Must Be Fed By Good Supporters

They might be very tempting to use but tactics which are filled with attack duties, are not that good at creating goals. My one rule of thumb for crafting balanced tactics, is that for each Attack duty you employ you must have at least two players on Support duty in close proximity. Not only can you ensure that your attacking players get sufficient support but this can also lead to creation of passing triangles on the pitch. Some formations such as 4-3-3 are especially conductive to this type of build-up.

Just as you want variety in attack, and in goals scored, you want your support to come in varied forms. For best results, your attackers should be receiving all kinds of assists from crosses, short passes, lay-offs and long through balls.

I am not going to bore you on going into more detail here because it should be rather self-explanatory. If you take a look at my tactic above you could probably guess which roles would provide which kind of support. Such as fullbacks/wingbacks giving crosses or attacking midfielder - one-two passes. Also note the positioning of my attack and support duty roles and see how they are located in proximity to each other. This is most definitely not random.

A little detail to note here is that I usually instruct my Mezzala to take more risks and to run wide with the ball. The aim is to have him act as creative "needle" player providing both long-pass and short passing (combined with dribbling) support to our attackers. In terms of other important individual instructions, Shadow Striker is told to "stay wider" while Carrilero is instructed to "tackle harder". No other individual instructions or opposition instructions are used.

Edited December 29, 2023 by crusadertsar

Bumble.Ree · December 30, 2023

Would a CF(su) work well instead of a PF(su) here or does it need the PF?

Bumble.Ree · December 30, 2023

How does "be more expressive" work for you? Haven't found much succes with it despite me being in season 36/37 with Atlético right now and having some of the smartest and most creative players in every role.

crusadertsar · December 30, 2023

@Bumble.Ree I prefer not to have a central striker with Move into Channels instructions because then all 3 of my attackers would be moving into channels. So CF probably wouldn't work. False9 probably would though but I haven't tested that role.

Regarding the more expressive instruction, it depends on players you have. I have a few attackers with high flair attribute so I think that giving them a bit more freedom can't hurt. It's not a big factor in the final tactic though. In tougher away games or against stronger opposition I usually replace it with more disciplined instruction.

esteve69 · December 30, 2023

Hi @crusadertsar where i can find the verrou tactics please?

I would love to test it.

Edited January 1 by esteve69

HanziZoloman · December 31, 2023

Wunderschön!
wonderful piece of work @crusadertsar as always (!) especially the history part was something which is so associated to your writings. Thank you!

a question: I implement this style of play into my EFL2 side from the YAC and it works good enough in defence but of course there is no real CF I have strong slow or a good creator or a fast one but none who has it all. Which role would you consider next to the CF in a lower league team if you want your striker still to be the main scorer.

If you decided to play him as a creator like DLF would you place your attacking options both wide?

thank you

crusadertsar · December 31, 2023

11 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Wunderschön!
wonderful piece of work @crusadertsar as always (!) especially the history part was something which is so associated to your writings. Thank you!

a question: I implement this style of play into my EFL2 side from the YAC and it works good enough in defence but of course there is no real CF I have strong slow or a good creator or a fast one but none who has it all. Which role would you consider next to the CF in a lower league team if you want your striker still to be the main scorer.

If you decided to play him as a creator like DLF would you place your attacking options both wide?

thank you

I figure you are using the 433 version of this tactic. I don't know if you saw the more recent posts but i kind of settled on narrow diamond style and because of its effectiveness it's kind of hard to go back to previous tactic. It's been that good! But guess my advice would be to use DLF(A) i find that role to be one of the most versatile in the game and a good alternative to CF. Can also be used with two wide attackers.

HanziZoloman · December 31, 2023

vor 44 Minuten schrieb crusadertsar:

I figure you are using the 433 version of this tactic. I don't know if you saw the more recent posts but i kind of settled on narrow diamond style and because of its effectiveness it's kind of hard to go back to previous tactic. It's been that good! But guess my advice would be to use DLF(A) i find that role to be one of the most versatile in the game and a good alternative to CF. Can also be used with two wide attackers.

Thank you! Yeah I got the tactical changes but it’s too far away from Mourinho and I liked the 433 variant far more. Sorry

It works well with my team. We are not beating everything to pieces but are solid defensively and clinical up front. We are supposed to fight relegation but are competing for play offs. I had some tactical changes though:

Instead of a Libero my two CD stay back (CD/NCD) and the other half of the 2-2 Defense is my DM(S) and a IWB(S). Up front we have some threats. MC(A) IW(A) and PF(A) or sometimes DLF(A) I‘ll try that out.

Thank you for all that beautiful work! I hated Mou but love him since I learned so much about him through your work. That’s always the best.

Novem9 · January 1

@crusadertsar Your tactical posts are a decoration of the forum, without exaggeration :rolleyes:

Inspired, I tried to create new replica of amazing team Inter 2010:

But I have a critical issue.

In general, it's fine: team wins, style works as I wanted, I'm enjoying to watch this. Issue: team can't play without goals conceded. The surprising thing is that we concede more often from weak teams than from big ones.

I realize that JM used super Milito as Striker, Sneijder as AP and Lucio as CB, etc. Fiorentina's players are worse. Really worse. But still subtop imo, and it's possible to keep own gates. Moreover, we concede goals after positional attacks by an opponents :seagull:

В 19.11.2023 в 00:26, crusadertsar сказал:

What exactly am I trying to achieve with this tactical system?

How I see this.

Clear division - attacking four, two transits: segundo volante and right fullback, insurance in the form of BWM, defensive three.

Modern football likes to give different formations in attack and defense. Our current 4231 is transformed into 3-2-5. Or something similar:

Note that the transition phase only affects the attacking four (green arrows):

The transition to attack should be fast enough. But not addressless.

Plan A is to attack through center of field. The ideal scheme is to deliver the ball directly to the striker, or to the playmaker, who will pass the scoring pass to the AF.
Plan B is to use the wingers as a transit for a slightly longer attack.
Plan C is to use forward defenders and FBs for a full attack.

A pair of defensive midfielders are excellent breakwaters for opponent attacks. The team faces two interesting tasks: 1) to attack before the opponent takes up defense. 2) prevent opponent from attacking as well. But as I said, I have no issues with opposite counter, issue with positional attacks

Initially, it may seem that all attacks are coming through the right edge. Obviously it is more intense. The IW moves to the center, opening up space for the FB. However, the left flank forms a very important triangle, the basis of interaction.

My initial impulse was to use BWM defensively. But the choice of support is determined by the following factors: team mentality, three defenders behind, the need for additional support in attack / saturation of the center of the field. IRL Cambiaso also liked to connect at the second tempo (more likely even 2.5 or third tempo)

So I'm sure this tactic is balanced and I understand this in details. But defence is not perfect, I definitely want to avoid some of the missed goals.

Any ideas how fix this in my tactic please?

Edited January 1 by Novem9

HanziZoloman · January 1

@Novem9

Just looking at the tactic I believe, that the Volante(A) and the BWM(S) will both be out of position due to their movements.
that means your cover relies on the back three who are far away from each other, which leads to gaps in between. Counter attacking teams can place their player in the gaps and play a long ball. I‘d create a 2-2 Defense or even a 3-2 Defense at times to prevent that.

Novem9 · January 1

47 минут назад, HanziZoloman сказал:

Just looking at the tactic I believe, that the Volante(A) and the BWM(S) will both be out of position due to their movements.

Good point :thup:

47 минут назад, HanziZoloman сказал:

I‘d create a 2-2 Defense or even a 3-2 Defense at times to prevent that.

Could you expand on your point please?

HanziZoloman · January 1

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Novem9:

Good point

Could you expand on your point please?

sure, I am not an expert but learnt some things recently:

the IFB(D) will form a back three in possession with your CB. The FB(A) will bomb forward, the VOL(A) will join attack rather sooner than later and the BWM(S) will chase opponents where ever they appear. This leaves you with only your back three to defend but more important there is nobody in your midfield to prevent attacks. The opponent will have any time and space and especially counter attacking teams will exploit that much. The regroup TI will cover for that against slow building teams (?).

A 2-2 Defense would have 2 defenders in the back line and 2 defenders in front of them, imagine DM. A 3-2 Defense would be even harder to break down. If you stay with your 3 back line wit CD and IFB(D) you need to get players in front of them, like two simple DM(S) or a DM(S) and a BWM(S). You could also change the IFB(D) into a IWB(S) then he would move into DM/MC position (depends on the player) together with a DM(S) he will form a 2-2 Defense and give your Volante the licence to move up either (S) or (A).

Key should be to have the tactical variation of securing in a 3-2 / 2-2 or even 2-3 line up in the back. With a 3-2 you are very secure against counter attacks. I'd start with that, then tinkering into a 2-3 or 2-2 then you have variations. with a 2-3 or 3-2 you have five attacking players, with a 2-2 you have six and can outnumber the opponent.

check on the positional play explained thread here in the forums by @Rashidi. He explains how players move into different spots of the pitch to create new formations. It's a real brilliant piece of work.

One other thing: Looking at your attack, your only threat is the AF who is easy to mark out. Who could be another goalscorer?

And: on the other hand, if it works fine, it works fine. FM is a game of multitudes. Keep up with it.

Edited January 1 by HanziZoloman

Novem9 · January 2

12 часов назад, HanziZoloman сказал:

sure, I am not an expert but learnt some things recently:

the IFB(D) will form a back three in possession with your CB. The FB(A) will bomb forward, the VOL(A) will join attack rather sooner than later and the BWM(S) will chase opponents where ever they appear. This leaves you with only your back three to defend but more important there is nobody in your midfield to prevent attacks. The opponent will have any time and space and especially counter attacking teams will exploit that much. The regroup TI will cover for that against slow building teams (?).

A 2-2 Defense would have 2 defenders in the back line and 2 defenders in front of them, imagine DM. A 3-2 Defense would be even harder to break down. If you stay with your 3 back line wit CD and IFB(D) you need to get players in front of them, like two simple DM(S) or a DM(S) and a BWM(S). You could also change the IFB(D) into a IWB(S) then he would move into DM/MC position (depends on the player) together with a DM(S) he will form a 2-2 Defense and give your Volante the licence to move up either (S) or (A).

Key should be to have the tactical variation of securing in a 3-2 / 2-2 or even 2-3 line up in the back. With a 3-2 you are very secure against counter attacks. I'd start with that, then tinkering into a 2-3 or 2-2 then you have variations. with a 2-3 or 3-2 you have five attacking players, with a 2-2 you have six and can outnumber the opponent.

check on the positional play explained thread here in the forums by @Rashidi. He explains how players move into different spots of the pitch to create new formations. It's a real brilliant piece of work.

One other thing: Looking at your attack, your only threat is the AF who is easy to mark out. Who could be another goalscorer?

And: on the other hand, if it works fine, it works fine. FM is a game of multitudes. Keep up with it.

I liked the idea of changing BWM(s) -> DM(s). Also VOL(a) started to be VOL(s). But I hold IFB role for now - I like this and don't want to check a lot of changes at the one moment.

Despite AF is solo threat, best strikers right now are both wingers AP scored few goals too. Despite team strives to play vertical football, many matches are played with advantageы: possession, shots, initiative, etc. Therefore, combination football has its place, especially against weaker opponents, and AF is not isolated

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