Defence-First Football Tactics (UPDATED Feb 20, 2024).

[srtbkr]

Am 29.12.2023 um 18:31 schrieb crusadertsar:

End of Season 2 Update: Continuing with Narrow Diamond Tactic

Hopefully everyone is having a very nice holiday period  I thought I would give you guys a little summary of how my team improved tactically after the end of 2nd full season. Just below you can see my team stats from last season. I mainly used my initial 4411tactic for the majority of the games in that season. Our defensive stats were very good as expected with Defence-First focus. But offensive ones such as goals scored and number of points (especially wins) we got in the season definitely left something to be desired.

Now below our current, almost a year later, stats present an interesting picture, both very similar and at the same different from last season. Despite the switch to a more top-heavy and risky 4-4-2 Narrow Diamond tactic, our defensive solidity remained largely unchanged. We conceded 2 more goals but still maintained same spectacular record in number of yellow (15) and red (none!) cards received. Discipline is definitely not an issue with this squad. Our 1st choice keeper Alex Remiro played a big part in maintaining this defensive record. In his 30 LaLiga appearances he only conceeded 24 times and racked up an impressive 18 clean sheets. It was also the season when he won World Goalkeeper of the Year award for the first time in his career. 

But as impressive as our defensive record has been, it's attacking output that I'm most impressed with. Our top striker Sadiq almost doubled his goal output in the same number of games! Overall, the team scored 10 more goals than last year and more importantly won 8 more league games. Despite this, we could not improve on last season's 3rd place finish. But that speaks more for the quality of competition in LaLiga rather than failings on our part. Funnily enough, our 84 points in this season would have probably won us the league title in previous season where Barcelona won it with the same amount (and less goals scored). 

I feel like after this sophomore season with Real Socieadad, I finally settled on a tactic that is very well balanced in both defence and attack. And despite the name of this thread, that is the ultimate aim of my tactical system. It is not to neglect offence in favour of defence. Rather by keeping strong attack, your players will have an easier time defending. But if you sit back passively near your own goal you will be letting opposition a free reign to bombard you with shots. At the same time I am not preaching high pressing attacking game here. Rather I just want my players to be very difficult to break down in our own half by maintaining a rather aggressive midblock. And use it as a solid platform to launch fluid counters into the opposition half. 

In this update, I hope to cast a bit more light on how my tactical change allowed the team to be more dangerous in offence while maintaining same solid defence. Hopefully this will aid you in your own tactical endeavors in FM24. So without further ado, I will try to show what I do to help my teams to score more goals in FM24. I generally follow 2 simple rules:

 

1) Don’t Put All Your Eggs in One-Basket

I see the following question asked often on the SI’s Football Manager forum. How can I make this player into my primary goal-scorer? Or how can I get my central striker to score more goals? Or any number of the variations on the same theme. I think that no matter which answer you choose, it will always be wrong. Simply because the original question is wrong. If you want long-term success in FM24 you should not be asking how to get a specific player to score more goals but instead how to get your whole team to score more goals. Tactics are best when they are designed with multiple avenues to goals. The more the better.

For example in this tactic, the goal-scoring responsibility is shared between Advanced Forward, Pressing Forward, Shadow Striker and, to a lesser degree, Mezzala. Also, dur to the variety of roles, we can also inject variety in the types of goals they can score. In AF role you can slot your tall target-forward-type striker. So he can take advantage of all the crosses coming from your wide players. He is the most forward of your attackers and thus a big header threat for the opposition. The Mezzala role is where you can place your longshooting expert. He can arrive late into the penalty area and finish off any chances created by the more advance players. On the other hand, the Shadow Striker role is best used by an intelligent player with exceptional Off-the-ball and other mental attributes, such as anticipation and work rate (good to have but not necessary). He will act as another deeper threat by finding open spaces not already used by your other attackers or opposition defenders. Thus these three modes of attack ensure that your opponent is constantly dealing with goals-scoring threats. They cannot become too complacent in their defending. Any lapse in concentration (or eventual fatigue, especially given how strong AI teams tend to play) will give you a chance to go one goal up. And if the opposition tries to close down any one attacking player, there will be at least two others that are unmarked.

Using different roles for your attacking players also ensures that they are occupying and moving into different spaces on the pitch. I am a big fan of organizing three-pronged attacking formations. You might remember me writing quite a bit on this in FM22 and FM23 (specifically in context of 433 formation).

But 442 Narrow Diamond could also offer a three pronged attack potential. Why am I obsessed with having three attackers you might ask? Well, in any tactical system, irrespective of the actual formation, I like to have mu attacking players occupying each of the two half-spaces as well as the central space.

2) Good Goalscorers Must Be Fed By Good Supporters

They might be very tempting to use but tactics which are filled with attack duties, are not that good at creating goals. My one rule of thumb for crafting balanced tactics, is that for each Attack duty you employ you must have at least two players on Support duty in close proximity. Not only can you ensure that your attacking players get sufficient support but this can also lead to creation of passing triangles on the pitch. Some formations such as 4-3-3 are especially conductive to this type of build-up.

Just as you want variety in attack, and in goals scored, you want your support to come in varied forms. For best results, your attackers should be receiving all kinds of assists from crosses, short passes, lay-offs and long through balls.

I am not going to bore you on going into more detail here because it should be rather self-explanatory. If you take a look at my tactic above you could probably guess which roles would provide which kind of support. Such as fullbacks/wingbacks giving crosses or attacking midfielder - one-two passes. Also note the positioning of my attack and support duty roles and see how they are located in proximity to each other. This is most definitely not random. 

A little detail to note here is that I usually instruct my Mezzala to take more risks and to run wide with the ball. The aim is to have him act as creative "needle" player providing both long-pass and short passing (combined with dribbling) support to our attackers. In terms of other important individual instructions, Shadow Striker is told to "stay wider" while Carrilero is instructed to "tackle harder". No other individual instructions or opposition instructions are used. 

Thank you for your thread. I played with your tactics (or at least very similar) a season in League One: Invincible, most goals scored, least conceded. As a disclaimer: Media expectation was finishing first, on the other hand my squad isn’t perfect for this style (not good technically and tend to press quite a lot). Also “Pass into space” helped me playing lower league.

[crusadertsar]

8 minutes ago, srtbkr said:

Thank you for your thread. I played with your tactics (or at least very similar) a season in League One: Invincible, most goals scored, least conceded. As a disclaimer: Media expectation was finishing first, on the other hand my squad isn’t perfect for this style (not good technically and tend to press quite a lot). Also “Pass into space” helped me playing lower league.

Wow! That's an amazing result mate . I'm glad it worked so well for you 

[crusadertsar]

How would you play this young player? In what role? His biggest weakness right now is definitely his physical attributes, primarily lack of acceleration and pace. Although interestingly he has very good balance.

One of the things I love about playing with a strict Basque-only policy, whether in the traditional Athletic Bilbao challenge or my self-imposed Real Sociedad one, is discovering exciting Basque newgens. It's like Christmas every time! And you cherish them that much more because there is a rather limited pool of young Basque players. Chechu is definitely this kind of player in my save. He is probably the most exciting Basque prospect in this whole save and he is mine at La Real  Actually forget about that, he is the best potential newgen I have seen in all of my saves in FM24 so far.

PS: He already starred in a few games for us (even scoring a goal in Champions League at 16 y.o. !) but I might just have to rework my tactic in the future in order to aid his development and get the best out of his talents. Just not sure how to go about it. He is not really ideal as Advance Forward (lack of speed and jumping ability) or hard-working enough and fast enough to be good at Shadow Striker role. I foresee him more as a future Maradona-like offensive creator. Fantasista Trequartista perhaps? 

Edited January 10 by crusadertsar

[HanziZoloman]

vor einer Stunde schrieb crusadertsar:

How would you play this young player? In what role? His biggest weakness right now is definitely his physical attributes, primarily lack of acceleration and pace. Although interestingly he has very good balance.

One of the things I love about playing with a strict Basque-only policy, whether in the traditional Athletic Bilbao challenge or my self-imposed Real Sociedad one, is discovering exciting Basque newgens. It's like Christmas every time! And you cherish them that much more because there is a rather limited pool of young Basque players. Chechu is definitely this kind of player in my save. He is probably the most exciting Basque prospect in this whole save and he is mine at La Real  Actually forget about that, he is the best newgen I have seen in all of my saves in FM24 so far.

PS: He already starred in a few games for us (even scoring a goal in Champions League at 16 y.o. !) but I might just have to rework my tactic in the future in order to aid his development and get the best out of his talents. Just not sure how to go about it. He is not really ideal as Advance Forward (lack of speed and jumping ability) or hard-working enough and fast enough to be good at Shadow Striker role. I foresee him more as a future Maradona-like offensive creator. Fantasista Trequartista perhaps? 

I‘d say he is a bit like my player in the YAC and looks like one who would thrive in a two striker formation as the small, creative one. A bit tricky because he is amazing but then some things still need development.

or like a more dangerous Özil Player but how would you place a Maradona? How would mourinho play a Maradona?

Edited January 10 by HanziZoloman

[crusadertsar]

15 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

I‘d say he is a bit like my player in the YAC and looks like one who would thrive in a two striker formation as the small, creative one. A bit tricky because he is amazing but then some things still need development.

Yeah for sure like his strength and teamwork would need some development. Strength because it will go well with his superior balance and dribbling. And teamwork if he is to act in a more creative/supportive role.

[HanziZoloman]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb crusadertsar:

Yeah for sure like his strength and teamwork would need some development. Strength because it will go well with his superior balance and dribbling. And teamwork if he is to act in a more creative/supportive role.

He looks perfect for this special role, his balance and off the ball will make him a Messi, he needs the support of Xavi and Iniesta. Think it’s easier to develop his quickness than his workfare or teamwork.

Imagine two players around him creating space and feeding balls. Two excellent supporters, one drifting wide and the other dropping deep. A Number 9 who pushes the defenders back, creating a hole in the dangerous spot in front of the box?

PPM runs with ball through center 

Edited January 10 by HanziZoloman

[crusadertsar]

13 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

He looks perfect for this special role, his balance and off the ball will make him a Messi, he needs the support of Xavi and Iniesta. Think it’s easier to develop his quickness than his workfare or teamwork.

Imagine two players around him creating space and feeding balls. Two excellent supporters, one drifting wide and the other dropping deep. A Number 9 who pushes the defenders back, creating a hole in the dangerous spot in front of the box?

PPM runs with ball through center 

Nice! Thanks for the inspiration mate. That sort of sounds like Maradona role in Napoli's narrow formation in 1985-86. The fantasista AMC in the hole with the two strikers up top creating space for him. Napoli manager Ottavio Bianchi created that narrow diamond tactic specifically with Maradona in mind. Maybe I should adapt mine with the same goal 

[HanziZoloman]

I am sure you know what you’re doing and I‘ll be reading @crusadertsar

if you have some time left, please check on the Billericay thread I could desperately need some help. Have a similar player but not a similar team 

[crusadertsar]

7 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

I am sure you know what you’re doing and I‘ll be reading @crusadertsar

if you have some time left, please check on the Billericay thread I could desperately need some help. Have a similar player but not a similar team 

I'll check as soon as I can. I actually started a parallel save where I'm working on a 433 that's geared for underdog. RB Salzburg in Champions League so not quite the same as your situation but I'm sure I could apply some concepts. It's an evolution of my previous La Verrou 433 tactic from this thread. So will let you know soon. 

Edited January 10 by crusadertsar

[HanziZoloman]

thanks man, always appreciate your contents!

[Novem9]

В 10.01.2024 в 17:53, crusadertsar сказал:

How would you play this young player? In what role? His biggest weakness right now is definitely his physical attributes, primarily lack of acceleration and pace. Although interestingly he has very good balance.

One of the things I love about playing with a strict Basque-only policy, whether in the traditional Athletic Bilbao challenge or my self-imposed Real Sociedad one, is discovering exciting Basque newgens. It's like Christmas every time! And you cherish them that much more because there is a rather limited pool of young Basque players. Chechu is definitely this kind of player in my save. He is probably the most exciting Basque prospect in this whole save and he is mine at La Real  Actually forget about that, he is the best potential newgen I have seen in all of my saves in FM24 so far.

PS: He already starred in a few games for us (even scoring a goal in Champions League at 16 y.o. !) but I might just have to rework my tactic in the future in order to aid his development and get the best out of his talents. Just not sure how to go about it. He is not really ideal as Advance Forward (lack of speed and jumping ability) or hard-working enough and fast enough to be good at Shadow Striker role. I foresee him more as a future Maradona-like offensive creator. Fantasista Trequartista perhaps? 

Trequartista no doubt. Dribbling 17, Tech 17, FT 16 in 17 years - just WOW! The most funny thing - all avaiable positions for Chechu have trequartista role 

[Novem9]

В 10.01.2024 в 19:27, crusadertsar сказал:

The fantasista AMC in the hole with the two strikers up top creating space for him

Like this? I played 4312 narrow in FM22, trequartista was totally unpredictable for me and opposite team too:

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

Trequartista no doubt. Dribbling 17, Tech 17, FT 16 in 17 years - just WOW! The most funny thing - all avaiable positions for Chechu have trequartista role 

And he has gotten even better in the last two months since I took that screenshot. Definitely a Trequartista. Im just not completely sure about the tactic. Been experimenting with a more Brazilian-inspired Narrow 4-2-2-2 to try to integrate Chechu better into it. Will try to report on it soon but have been rather busy with work lately. 

[Novem9]

11 минут назад, crusadertsar сказал:

And he has gotten even better in the last two months since I took that screenshot. Definitely a Trequartista. Im just not completely sure about the tactic. Been experimenting with a more Brazilian-inspired Narrow 4-2-2-2 to try to integrate Chechu better into it. Will try to report on it soon but have been rather busy with work lately. 

Lovely formation, I used it twice in my journeyman save in FM22. Moreover, the first time I had to take it simply because the Uruguayan club in D2 had no money and no wingers  

And in Brazil, this formation brought me two trophies, including Serie A. What I'm interested in, and what I still have doubts about, is how to use vertical interaction between roles?

Should it be attack under attack, support under support, or vice versa?

DLF(s) - AF(a)
AM(s) - AM(a)

or

DLF(s) - AF(a)
SS(a) - AP(s)

?

[crusadertsar]

46 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Lovely formation, I used it twice in my journeyman save in FM22. Moreover, the first time I had to take it simply because the Uruguayan club in D2 had no money and no wingers  

And in Brazil, this formation brought me two trophies, including Serie A. What I'm interested in, and what I still have doubts about, is how to use vertical interaction between roles?

Should it be attack under attack, support under support, or vice versa?

DLF(s) - AF(a)
AM(s) - AM(a)

or

DLF(s) - AF(a)
SS(a) - AP(s)

?

I'm thinking of recreating a typical Brazilian "diagonals". So that would mean support under support and attack under attack to give that distinct assymetric lopsided look in attack.

[srtbkr]

Am 5.1.2024 um 17:45 schrieb srtbkr:

Thank you for your thread. I played with your tactics (or at least very similar) a season in League One: Invincible, most goals scored, least conceded. As a disclaimer: Media expectation was finishing first, on the other hand my squad isn’t perfect for this style (not good technically and tend to press quite a lot). Also “Pass into space” helped me playing lower league.

Same team, now in 2nd devision: Media expectation 22. Bit harsh… Finished first (well it was the only day we were on top, but there is no better day for that). Still the narrow diamond of @crusadertsar, very little tweaks. 

[josh.miller92]

https://www.fmscout.com/a-defensive-4312-fm24-tactic.html
 

Recognise this ?

[crusadertsar]

4 minutes ago, josh.miller92 said:

https://www.fmscout.com/a-defensive-4312-fm24-tactic.html
 

Recognise this ?

Haha he even put the BPD on the same side. Didn't even try to make it a little different. Oh well, hopefully it will give them the views that their site is so desperate to get. 

[HanziZoloman]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb josh.miller92:

https://www.fmscout.com/a-defensive-4312-fm24-tactic.html
 

Recognise this ?

How stupid. Good reaction @crusadertsar it won’t help them. We all know who’s behind it

it‘s Fame 

Edited January 28 by HanziZoloman

[crusadertsar]

Master of The Art of Football Pragmatism 

 

Seeing the latest news that Jose Mourinho has been sacked by AS Roma owners, has got me thinking. I don’t think “Pragmatic” managers are as much appreciated in football as they should be. Specifically in Jose’s case he was very much loved by Roma fans because he managed to achieve some pretty great things (winning Europa Conference title in 2022 and becoming runner-up for Europa League in 2023) with a club which previously was going through the biggest slump in its long history. Sure they have had less than great results in Serie A this season (sitting in 8th position as of writing this) but then one must surely take into account that Italian Serie A has been among the most competitive European football leagues with 4 different clubs winning the title in as many years. 

And yet Mourinho’s Roma has achieved some pretty interesting statistics such as being amongst the teams with least league goals conceded. Unfortunately, also in his 96 games with AS Roma Mourinho’s team has also become the Roma side with the least points per game ratio (1.61). This just shows what kind of coach Mourinho has always been. Not one who is overly reckless or aggressive in his tactics or one who is too concerned with style. In fact he has always been a very pragmatic manager whose only concern is winning each game (and one goal difference is usually all it takes) and not to create a flashy show. Even the latest European disappointment where Roma came up short in Europa Final was a match that hinged on a single goal! Roma were one penalty goal away from walking away as victors. But that is the fickle nature of football and sports in general. I just wish that club owners were less fickle sometimes. 

Where am I going with this you may ask? I guess I wanted to use an example of one pragmatic manager to highlight another Master of The Art of Football Pragmatism. Ernesto Valverde whose management of Athletic Bilbao has been stellar to say the least. The Basque manager has always been very consistent over the last two seasons with Athletic Club. But again due to the nature (or lack of style of you will) of football that he has his team playing he has not been getting the attention and praise that he deserves. It’s also interesting in the context of FM24 because I think it’s a tactical system that can be translated into the game rather well. Especially in this year’s version of FM which had a lot attention given to Positional Play. Athletic is not a side that plays flashy possession football like Man City or Barcelona but instead implements an interesting pragmatic style that blends directness with smart role rotations and gives much-needed purpose to possession. Even more interestingly, Valverde’s tactics change from game to game (as is the case with most pragmatic managers) to adapt to the opposition. Even his often-used 4-2-3-1 formation is a hybrid one that plays differently in possession and looks more like a 433 during attack. 

Ernesto Valverde - The perfect image of managerial intensity. 

 

Valverde’s tactical flexibility and willingness to adjust the way his team plays against each opponent is only one side of Football Pragmatism. At Athletic Club this is reflected in how he has his side play with “controlled directness”. Despite using the same 4-2-3-1 for most matches, the team will play very differently depending on the opponent. They tend to take a more possession-dominant approach and try to control the match when faced with weaker opponent who sit back and defend more. On the other hand Athletic Club switch to a more defensive/direct strategy against a superior possession-hungry team like Barcelona. A perfect example was the way Bilbao dismantled the Catalan side during last week’s Copa Del Ray Quarter Finals. 

The other side of pragmatism, and what made Valverde so successful not just at Bilbao but at other clubs like Olympiacos, is the manager’s ability to work with and get the best out of limited personnel. At Olympiakos it was making a club from a lower level league competitive in the Champions League. While at Athletic Club this is due to their famous policy to only using players from the Basque country. Furthermore, Ernesto likes to use mostly the same First XI at Athletic Club. Within his smart and flexible tactic, they have been thriving. 

Ernesto Valverde’s pragmatism is a perfect fit at Athletic Bilbao. It seems like a match made in heaven and it is. Valverde’s reserved and balanced approach to football as well as his ability to get the best results from rather limited resources is what led him to manage in Bilbao on 4 occasions now. And with him at the helm the club has been reaching Continental football qualification spots more consistently than ever before.

Defend Like A 4-4-2

 

Out of possession Athletic Club tend to defend in a compact 4-4-2 midblock. Here you have wingers dropping back and the attacking midfielder pushing up alongside the striker. The two banks of four has historically been one of the most reliable defensive strategies. Not only does it provide coverage across the whole width of the pitch but is also very centrally compact (especially with the “play narrow” instruction). Additionally, Athletic Club is perfectly suited to this formation because most of their wide attacking players possess high work rate attributes (at least 14 or more). The 4-4-2 shape allows Athletic Bilbao to have key moments of ball control (in midfield) even in matches where they are not expected to dominate overall possession. It is a perfect basis for fluid counter-attacking. So even if the opponent has more of the ball, it is where they have it that matters more. Athletic Bilbao can win if their opponent cannot create anything centrally and is rather restricted to trying low-percent chances from the wings (that Copa Del Ray game against Barcelona being the perfect example). By tempting the opponents to send the ball out wide, Bilbao’s hard-working wide players can then close them down against the touchline. While Bilbao does not press high, they do tend to win the ball back in advanced wide areas. 

The Fast Transition Phase

 

Winning the ball high up the field is one thing, but it is of no use if such advanced turnovers don’t lead to quality chances created during transition phase. Bilbao’s 4-4-2 defensive shape acts as an important springboard which makes Valverde’s Basque side so dangerous in attacking transitions. Basically as soon as Bilbao lose possession, their wingers run forward through the channels between the opposition fullback and the centreback. In turn, the central striker attempts to run in behind the defence. At the same time, the attacking midfielder (usually the club icon Munian) looks to find pockets of space between the lines to receive the ball. Munian’s off the ball, quickness, passing and vision are key here. For as soon as he gets on the ball, at least three attacking outlets, via the striker and the two wingers, become open as his passing options. The speed and, even more importantly, off the ball movement ability of these attackers, is what makes the tactic so dangerous during the transition phase. Their movement also helps in dragging the defenders apart and create more open spaces for Bibao players to exploit.

Bilbao During Possession

 

Although Athletic Club’s formation is usually a type of 4-2-3-1 on paper, the team essentially turns into a 4-3-3 while in possession. When playing against inferior or equal strength sides, Bilbao tend to dominate possession. But it’s not all about higher possession numbers. What allows them to break down even the most staunch defensive sides is the sweet combination of attacking movements and wingplay afforded by their hybrid shape. The strength of Valverde’s tactic is really in creating and exploiting space smartly through both wide and half-space channel movements. The two midfielders (the AMC and right DM Volante) are both instrumental in this. These two attack-focused midfielders are granted the most positional freedom, to push forward, and generally roam around and pop up in areas where they are least expected. 

 

In an above video, you can clearly see how Bilbao can rapidly create an overload on one flank while at the same time flooding the opposition box with bodies to finish off any resulting chances. The RCM (or DM really because Bilbao’s midfielders tend to sit rather deep) Oihan Sancet is also very capable of exploiting the gaps that appear due to his good off the ball ability and acceleration. The combination of advanced and deep runners is utilized very well in Bilbao’s formation.

Thanks to the positional play rotation changes in FM24, the movements of AMC, SV are much more intelligent and complimentary. As the Segundo Volante makes his late forward run, the AMC will move aside to open a channel. This behavior will free up SV to push up alongside AMC and essentially become a second number 10 role. Because of this Bilbao’s hybrid 4-3-3 (or 4-1-4-1 to be more precise) in possession and attack can be recreated in the game. 

The two fullbacks are encourages to run forward (both have “gets forward” trait in the game) but they usually do this via late timed runs rather than then aggressive overlapping movements. Instead you see the wingers acting as the main width generators by staying high and wide. They do so in a rather free, open fashion and are not constrained by typical winger behavior of only dribbling and crossing. Rather when the ball is on his side the near-side winger will hug the touchline while his far-side partner will move a little inwards to become better available to passes from the midfield. This only happens in the final third though. Such behavior is a bit more tricky to recreate in-game but perhaps an IW or WM roles could work. I believe that these two roles are better suited to represent such complex movement than either the standard Winger or Inside Forward (which might start cutting in too early). 

The central striker behavior is a bit harder to narrow down as we often see Inaki Williams (who is often the main striker) drifting wide or even dropping deep. I think either a simple Pressing Forward (A) or perhaps DLF (A) with added roam more instruction would be a good way to represent such movements. The reason we see the natural winger Inaki Williams selected as the primary striker is probably due to his key attribute strengths – Acceleration, Pace and Workrate which would indeed make him into a great Pressing Forward. 

 

As you can see in the set-up of roles and instructions, Bilbao’s attack is focused through the centre of the pitch (due to the concentration of attack duties there) while the wings provide support and work in tandem with fullbacks to create overloads and defend wide. This set-up embodies the “controlled directness” of Valverde’s tactic while staying away from pure Route One “cross and hope for the best” football. When the team is a heavy favourite and the opposition is expected to sit back in a parked bus then adding work into box, slowing down tempo and making passing shorter would be more suited. These instructions would aid in keeping possession away from opposition defenders (who are trying to waste time anyway) as well as generate more chances through carefully working the ball into final third. Some of the roles or duties could also be altered to better control possession. Switching SV from Attack to Support duty for one, or giving the front striker a supporting role. 

At the end of the day, to be a good pragmatic Defence-First manager in the vein of Mourinho and Valverde one must not shy away from changing the changing the game plan. It’s rather amazing how a simple 4-2-3-1 can be so flexible so as to play direct forward-moving football in one match and the more patient controlled possession in another. All with a simple change in a few roles and instructions. 

[Novem9]

В 01.01.2024 в 15:52, Novem9 сказал:

@crusadertsar Your tactical posts are a decoration of the forum, without exaggeration 

 

Inspired, I tried to create new replica of amazing team Inter 2010:

But I have a critical issue.

In general, it's fine: team wins, style works as I wanted, I'm enjoying to watch this. Issue: team can't play without goals conceded. The surprising thing is that we concede more often from weak teams than from big ones.

I realize that JM used super Milito as Striker, Sneijder as AP and Lucio as CB, etc. Fiorentina's players are worse. Really worse. But still subtop imo, and it's possible to keep own gates. Moreover, we concede goals after positional attacks by an opponents 

 

How I see this.

 Clear division - attacking four, two transits: segundo volante and right fullback, insurance in the form of BWM, defensive three.

Modern football likes to give different formations in attack and defense. Our current 4231 is transformed into 3-2-5. Or something similar:

 

Note that the transition phase only affects the attacking four (green arrows):

The transition to attack should be fast enough. But not addressless.

Plan A is to attack through center of field. The ideal scheme is to deliver the ball directly to the striker, or to the playmaker, who will pass the scoring pass to the AF.
Plan B is to use the wingers as a transit for a slightly longer attack.
Plan C is to use forward defenders and FBs for a full attack.

A pair of defensive midfielders are excellent breakwaters for opponent attacks. The team faces two interesting tasks: 1) to attack before the opponent takes up defense. 2) prevent opponent from attacking as well. But as I said, I have no issues with opposite counter, issue with positional attacks  

Initially, it may seem that all attacks are coming through the right edge. Obviously it is more intense. The IW moves to the center, opening up space for the FB. However, the left flank forms a very important triangle, the basis of interaction.

My initial impulse was to use BWM defensively. But the choice of support is determined by the following factors: team mentality, three defenders behind, the need for additional support in attack / saturation of the center of the field. IRL Cambiaso also liked to connect at the second tempo (more likely even 2.5 or third tempo)

 

So I'm sure this tactic is balanced and I understand this in details. But defence is not perfect, I definitely want to avoid some of the missed goals.

Any ideas how fix this in my tactic please?

I decided that this post is not worthy of a separate topic, because I did not prepare a large analytical background. Or at least any advanced content. But I definitely want to share this here, especially since I asked earlier.

It was clear rule: only cautious mentality and no counter and counter-press (balanced TI only)

21 goals against — my favorite award in FM  Also usually I tried to avoid 'get stuck in', so I'm glad to see only 44 YC

I was glad to see that this works in FM24, contrary to the stereotype that success can only be achieved through gegenpress (a lie), or at least a positive/attack mentality (this is what I believed myself)

One question:

Tactical style WHAT ???

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

I decided that this post is not worthy of a separate topic, because I did not prepare a large analytical background. Or at least any advanced content. But I definitely want to share this here, especially since I asked earlier.

It was clear rule: only cautious mentality and no counter and counter-press (balanced TI only)

21 goals against — my favorite award in FM  Also usually I tried to avoid 'get stuck in', so I'm glad to see only 44 YC

I was glad to see that this works in FM24, contrary to the stereotype that success can only be achieved through gegenpress (a lie), or at least a positive/attack mentality (this is what I believed myself)

One question:

Tactical style WHAT ???

A tactic after my heart  Really love the balanced roles and TIs. Glad to see this style succeeding in the game. None of the usual boring meta nonsense we see all the time like "oh look my tactic is the best tactic at winning everything!" with ultra high defensive line and LOE, counterpress, max pressing and 4-5 attack duties on aggressive team mentality and a 1st team filled with popular shortlist wonderkids .

I'm actually trying to develop something similar right now. A balanced 4-2-3-1 so some good ideas here 👍. 

Edited January 31 by crusadertsar

[poma]

13 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Master of The Art of Football Pragmatism 

 

Seeing the latest news that Jose Mourinho has been sacked by AS Roma owners, has got me thinking. I don’t think “Pragmatic” managers are as much appreciated in football as they should be. Specifically in Jose’s case he was very much loved by Roma fans because he managed to achieve some pretty great things (winning Europa Conference title in 2022 and becoming runner-up for Europa League in 2023) with a club which previously was going through the biggest slump in its long history. Sure they have had less than great results in Serie A this season (sitting in 8th position as of writing this) but then one must surely take into account that Italian Serie A has been among the most competitive European football leagues with 4 different clubs winning the title in as many years. 

And yet Mourinho’s Roma has achieved some pretty interesting statistics such as being amongst the teams with least league goals conceded. Unfortunately, also in his 96 games with AS Roma Mourinho’s team has also become the Roma side with the least points per game ratio (1.61). This just shows what kind of coach Mourinho has always been. Not one who is overly reckless or aggressive in his tactics or one who is too concerned with style. In fact he has always been a very pragmatic manager whose only concern is winning each game (and one goal difference is usually all it takes) and not to create a flashy show. Even the latest European disappointment where Roma came up short in Europa Final was a match that hinged on a single goal! Roma were one penalty goal away from walking away as victors. But that is the fickle nature of football and sports in general. I just wish that club owners were less fickle sometimes. 

Where am I going with this you may ask? I guess I wanted to use an example of one pragmatic manager to highlight another Master of The Art of Football Pragmatism. Ernesto Valverde whose management of Athletic Bilbao has been stellar to say the least. The Basque manager has always been very consistent over the last two seasons with Athletic Club. But again due to the nature (or lack of style of you will) of football that he has his team playing he has not been getting the attention and praise that he deserves. It’s also interesting in the context of FM24 because I think it’s a tactical system that can be translated into the game rather well. Especially in this year’s version of FM which had a lot attention given to Positional Play. Athletic is not a side that plays flashy possession football like Man City or Barcelona but instead implements an interesting pragmatic style that blends directness with smart role rotations and gives much-needed purpose to possession. Even more interestingly, Valverde’s tactics change from game to game (as is the case with most pragmatic managers) to adapt to the opposition. Even his often-used 4-2-3-1 formation is a hybrid one that plays differently in possession and looks more like a 433 during attack. 

Ernesto Valverde - The perfect image of managerial intensity. 

 

Valverde’s tactical flexibility and willingness to adjust the way his team plays against each opponent is only one side of Football Pragmatism. At Athletic Club this is reflected in how he has his side play with “controlled directness”. Despite using the same 4-2-3-1 for most matches, the team will play very differently depending on the opponent. They tend to take a more possession-dominant approach and try to control the match when faced with weaker opponent who sit back and defend more. On the other hand Athletic Club switch to a more defensive/direct strategy against a superior possession-hungry team like Barcelona. A perfect example was the way Bilbao dismantled the Catalan side during last week’s Copa Del Ray Quarter Finals. 

The other side of pragmatism, and what made Valverde so successful not just at Bilbao but at other clubs like Olympiacos, is the manager’s ability to work with and get the best out of limited personnel. At Olympiakos it was making a club from a lower level league competitive in the Champions League. While at Athletic Club this is due to their famous policy to only using players from the Basque country. Furthermore, Ernesto likes to use mostly the same First XI at Athletic Club. Within his smart and flexible tactic, they have been thriving. 

Ernesto Valverde’s pragmatism is a perfect fit at Athletic Bilbao. It seems like a match made in heaven and it is. Valverde’s reserved and balanced approach to football as well as his ability to get the best results from rather limited resources is what led him to manage in Bilbao on 4 occasions now. And with him at the helm the club has been reaching Continental football qualification spots more consistently than ever before.

Defend Like A 4-4-2

 

Out of possession Athletic Club tend to defend in a compact 4-4-2 midblock. Here you have wingers dropping back and the attacking midfielder pushing up alongside the striker. The two banks of four has historically been one of the most reliable defensive strategies. Not only does it provide coverage across the whole width of the pitch but is also very centrally compact (especially with the “play narrow” instruction). Additionally, Athletic Club is perfectly suited to this formation because most of their wide attacking players possess high work rate attributes (at least 14 or more). The 4-4-2 shape allows Athletic Bilbao to have key moments of ball control (in midfield) even in matches where they are not expected to dominate overall possession. It is a perfect basis for fluid counter-attacking. So even if the opponent has more of the ball, it is where they have it that matters more. Athletic Bilbao can win if their opponent cannot create anything centrally and is rather restricted to trying low-percent chances from the wings (that Copa Del Ray game against Barcelona being the perfect example). By tempting the opponents to send the ball out wide, Bilbao’s hard-working wide players can then close them down against the touchline. While Bilbao does not press high, they do tend to win the ball back in advanced wide areas. 

The Fast Transition Phase

 

Winning the ball high up the field is one thing, but it is of no use if such advanced turnovers don’t lead to quality chances created during transition phase. Bilbao’s 4-4-2 defensive shape acts as an important springboard which makes Valverde’s Basque side so dangerous in attacking transitions. Basically as soon as Bilbao lose possession, their wingers run forward through the channels between the opposition fullback and the centreback. In turn, the central striker attempts to run in behind the defence. At the same time, the attacking midfielder (usually the club icon Munian) looks to find pockets of space between the lines to receive the ball. Munian’s off the ball, quickness, passing and vision are key here. For as soon as he gets on the ball, at least three attacking outlets, via the striker and the two wingers, become open as his passing options. The speed and, even more importantly, off the ball movement ability of these attackers, is what makes the tactic so dangerous during the transition phase. Their movement also helps in dragging the defenders apart and create more open spaces for Bibao players to exploit.

Bilbao During Possession

 

Although Athletic Club’s formation is usually a type of 4-2-3-1 on paper, the team essentially turns into a 4-3-3 while in possession. When playing against inferior or equal strength sides, Bilbao tend to dominate possession. But it’s not all about higher possession numbers. What allows them to break down even the most staunch defensive sides is the sweet combination of attacking movements and wingplay afforded by their hybrid shape. The strength of Valverde’s tactic is really in creating and exploiting space smartly through both wide and half-space channel movements. The two midfielders (the AMC and right DM Volante) are both instrumental in this. These two attack-focused midfielders are granted the most positional freedom, to push forward, and generally roam around and pop up in areas where they are least expected. 

 

In an above video, you can clearly see how Bilbao can rapidly create an overload on one flank while at the same time flooding the opposition box with bodies to finish off any resulting chances. The RCM (or DM really because Bilbao’s midfielders tend to sit rather deep) Oihan Sancet is also very capable of exploiting the gaps that appear due to his good off the ball ability and acceleration. The combination of advanced and deep runners is utilized very well in Bilbao’s formation.

Thanks to the positional play rotation changes in FM24, the movements of AMC, SV are much more intelligent and complimentary. As the Segundo Volante makes his late forward run, the AMC will move aside to open a channel. This behavior will free up SV to push up alongside AMC and essentially become a second number 10 role. Because of this Bilbao’s hybrid 4-3-3 (or 4-1-4-1 to be more precise) in possession and attack can be recreated in the game. 

The two fullbacks are encourages to run forward (both have “gets forward” trait in the game) but they usually do this via late timed runs rather than then aggressive overlapping movements. Instead you see the wingers acting as the main width generators by staying high and wide. They do so in a rather free, open fashion and are not constrained by typical winger behavior of only dribbling and crossing. Rather when the ball is on his side the near-side winger will hug the touchline while his far-side partner will move a little inwards to become better available to passes from the midfield. This only happens in the final third though. Such behavior is a bit more tricky to recreate in-game but perhaps an IW or WM roles could work. I believe that these two roles are better suited to represent such complex movement than either the standard Winger or Inside Forward (which might start cutting in too early). 

The central striker behavior is a bit harder to narrow down as we often see Inaki Williams (who is often the main striker) drifting wide or even dropping deep. I think either a simple Pressing Forward (A) or perhaps DLF (A) with added roam more instruction would be a good way to represent such movements. The reason we see the natural winger Inaki Williams selected as the primary striker is probably due to his key attribute strengths – Acceleration, Pace and Workrate which would indeed make him into a great Pressing Forward. 

 

As you can see in the set-up of roles and instructions, Bilbao’s attack is focused through the centre of the pitch (due to the concentration of attack duties there) while the wings provide support and work in tandem with fullbacks to create overloads and defend wide. This set-up embodies the “controlled directness” of Valverde’s tactic while staying away from pure Route One “cross and hope for the best” football. When the team is a heavy favourite and the opposition is expected to sit back in a parked bus then adding work into box, slowing down tempo and making passing shorter would be more suited. These instructions would aid in keeping possession away from opposition defenders (who are trying to waste time anyway) as well as generate more chances through carefully working the ball into final third. Some of the roles or duties could also be altered to better control possession. Switching SV from Attack to Support duty for one, or giving the front striker a supporting role. 

At the end of the day, to be a good pragmatic Defence-First manager in the vein of Mourinho and Valverde one must not shy away from changing the changing the game plan. It’s rather amazing how a simple 4-2-3-1 can be so flexible so as to play direct forward-moving football in one match and the more patient controlled possession in another. All with a simple change in a few roles and instructions. 

Downloadable? or copy/paste with no Pi's?

[crusadertsar]

35 minutes ago, poma said:

Downloadable? or copy/paste with no Pi's?

It's pretty much how it looks. The only thing is that right fullback would probably need "get further forward" if the player does not have that as a trait.

[poma]

4 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

It's pretty much how it looks. The only thing is that right fullback would probably need "get further forward" if the player does not have that as a trait.

Thanx 

[Duracellio]

Em 01/01/2024 em 12:52, Novem9 disse:

@crusadertsar Your tactical posts are a decoration of the forum, without exaggeration 

 

Inspired, I tried to create new replica of amazing team Inter 2010:

But I have a critical issue.

In general, it's fine: team wins, style works as I wanted, I'm enjoying to watch this. Issue: team can't play without goals conceded. The surprising thing is that we concede more often from weak teams than from big ones.

I realize that JM used super Milito as Striker, Sneijder as AP and Lucio as CB, etc. Fiorentina's players are worse. Really worse. But still subtop imo, and it's possible to keep own gates. Moreover, we concede goals after positional attacks by an opponents 

 

How I see this.

 Clear division - attacking four, two transits: segundo volante and right fullback, insurance in the form of BWM, defensive three.

Modern football likes to give different formations in attack and defense. Our current 4231 is transformed into 3-2-5. Or something similar:

 

Note that the transition phase only affects the attacking four (green arrows):

The transition to attack should be fast enough. But not addressless.

Plan A is to attack through center of field. The ideal scheme is to deliver the ball directly to the striker, or to the playmaker, who will pass the scoring pass to the AF.
Plan B is to use the wingers as a transit for a slightly longer attack.
Plan C is to use forward defenders and FBs for a full attack.

A pair of defensive midfielders are excellent breakwaters for opponent attacks. The team faces two interesting tasks: 1) to attack before the opponent takes up defense. 2) prevent opponent from attacking as well. But as I said, I have no issues with opposite counter, issue with positional attacks  

Initially, it may seem that all attacks are coming through the right edge. Obviously it is more intense. The IW moves to the center, opening up space for the FB. However, the left flank forms a very important triangle, the basis of interaction.

My initial impulse was to use BWM defensively. But the choice of support is determined by the following factors: team mentality, three defenders behind, the need for additional support in attack / saturation of the center of the field. IRL Cambiaso also liked to connect at the second tempo (more likely even 2.5 or third tempo)

 

So I'm sure this tactic is balanced and I understand this in details. But defence is not perfect, I definitely want to avoid some of the missed goals.

Any ideas how fix this in my tactic please?

Hi, any update on this one? I have a similar aproach but am struggling a bit with the defensive unit aswell. Was wondering if you gave up on this or tweaked it.

Cheers

[Novem9]

3 часа назад, Duracellio сказал:

Hi, any update on this one? I have a similar aproach but am struggling a bit with the defensive unit aswell. Was wondering if you gave up on this or tweaked it.

Cheers

Hi, check this (in this thread later). It's tweak/update, don't sure. The same formation and conception, I guess

[Novem9]

В 31.01.2024 в 17:41, crusadertsar сказал:

Glad to see this style succeeding in the game

I'm pleasantly surprised, but FM24 really allows you to play without pressure and high lines with a cautious mentality!

I have already tried Capello's tactics at Roma (3-4-1-2) and my vision of Capello 442 in Milan in the 90s, with a Libero and a HB. Works fine, results, strong defense and pretty beautiful attacks 

[billmatic]

Recently started playing FM again after a long absence and this is right up my alley. One question: does this require any Opposition Instructions?

[crusadertsar]

34 minutes ago, billmatic said:

Recently started playing FM again after a long absence and this is right up my alley. One question: does this require any Opposition Instructions?

Nope. I never use opposition instructions. 

[TheMartello]

2 hours ago, Novem9 said:

I'm pleasantly surprised, but FM24 really allows you to play without pressure and high lines with a cautious mentality!

I have already tried Capello's tactics at Roma (3-4-1-2) and my vision of Capello 442 in Milan in the 90s, with a Libero and a HB. Works fine, results, strong defense and pretty beautiful attacks 

Care to share?

[Novem9]

3 часа назад, TheMartello сказал:

Care to share?

Yes, I will be glad if it is effective for you.

Usually I don't use get stuck in, because my default mentalities are positive or attacking. But I set this TI for these tactics – mentality is cautious and no many cards for team.

3412. Things to check:

1. If your AM(a) is isolate or not enough creative, -> AM(s)
2. Sometimes I switch left WB to support. For better ball transition and stronger flank defence
3. Pair of DMs are very important. Plan B is DLP(d) and Vol(s). But for me main plan works fine
4. If your have top striker, feel free to change PF-CF(a)

 

442. Things to check

1. IW(s). I use PI – roam from position. It's your kind of fantasista (I mean free creator as it possible). He needs to search empty spaces and open the gate to LB moves forward.
2. I never used another roles, but have a plan B to use DLP->Vol(s) and IW->WP(s). I don't sure how it works in practice, feel free to describe if you will
3. I use preveny short GK distr., but sometimes this TI mb needs to be disabled. I can’t give clear instructions, just go by how you feel. The danger of defensive tactics is applying too little pressure. But you don’t want to miss a goal, so you need to strike a balance

I played a few games for both tactics and it worked fine for me. In general improved and more fluid ME (FM24, I skiped FM23) looks better for this type of tactics imo.

[caco4003]

Hi guys, so im trying to set up a really compact low block (4-3-3) but i dont seem to quite get the correct trigger press. Any advices?

[Novem9]

В 14.02.2024 в 07:41, caco4003 сказал:

Hi guys, so im trying to set up a really compact low block (4-3-3) but i dont seem to quite get the correct trigger press. Any advices?

Imo 433 is not good idea for low blocks. I tried to play 433 defensive in FM21 and won league, but 433 more about WBs who support attacks. You haven't CAM as fast transit for counter, but you have DM as possibility to play higher.

One of my favourite teams is Chelsea in season 04/05. They played in a few formations, but 433 was the main from them as I remember. However, Mourinho of that era was not a purely defensive coach. I wrote about this there shortly

I can repeat some numbers:

JM Chelsea 04/05 shots against top6 : 13,4
JM Chelsea 13/14: 11,1
JM Man Utd: 9,3

On targert: 4,2 / 4,3 / 3,2
Possession: 49,8 / 44,6 / 42,/3

433 JM of 04/05 more like Klopp's 433, rough speakly. He used counter-press! It was JM who accused his opponent on the bus! (against Spurs)

So I believe 433 it's about defensive counter tactic with higher lines or default lines at least. Because you need to use double CMs higher, while DM is your main structure achievment or something like this.

Edited February 15 by Novem9

[caco4003]

hace 3 horas, Novem9 dijo:

Imo 433 is not good idea for low blocks. I tried to play 433 defensive in FM21 and won league, but 433 more about WBs who support attacks. You haven't CAM as fast transit for counter, but you have DM as possibility to play higher.

One of my favourite teams is Chelsea in season 04/05. They played in a few formations, but 433 was the main from them as I remember. However, Mourinho of that era was not a purely defensive coach. I wrote about this there shortly

I can repeat some numbers:

JM Chelsea 04/05 shots against top6 : 13,4
JM Chelsea 13/14: 11,1
JM Man Utd: 9,3

On targert: 4,2 / 4,3 / 3,2
Possession: 49,8 / 44,6 / 42,/3

433 JM of 04/05 more like Klopp's 433, rough speakly. He used counter-press! It was JM who accused his opponent on the bus! (against Spurs)

So I believe 433 it's about defensive counter tactic with higher lines or default lines at least. Because you need to use double CMs higher, while DM is your main structure achievment or something like this.

 

hace 3 horas, Novem9 dijo:

Imo 433 is not good idea for low blocks. I tried to play 433 defensive in FM21 and won league, but 433 more about WBs who support attacks. You haven't CAM as fast transit for counter, but you have DM as possibility to play higher.

One of my favourite teams is Chelsea in season 04/05. They played in a few formations, but 433 was the main from them as I remember. However, Mourinho of that era was not a purely defensive coach. I wrote about this there shortly

I can repeat some numbers:

JM Chelsea 04/05 shots against top6 : 13,4
JM Chelsea 13/14: 11,1
JM Man Utd: 9,3

On targert: 4,2 / 4,3 / 3,2
Possession: 49,8 / 44,6 / 42,/3

433 JM of 04/05 more like Klopp's 433, rough speakly. He used counter-press! It was JM who accused his opponent on the bus! (against Spurs)

So I believe 433 it's about defensive counter tactic with higher lines or default lines at least. Because you need to use double CMs higher, while DM is your main structure achievment or something like this.

makes ton of sense. what about a mid block? do you think it could work? or would it better to just change to another formation like a 4-2-3-1 to try a low block?

[Novem9]

1 час назад, caco4003 сказал:

 

makes ton of sense. what about a mid block? do you think it could work? or would it better to just change to another formation like a 4-2-3-1 to try a low block?

Speaking for myself, if the priority is to play low block, I would prefer 4231dm. 

I'm sure it's possible to create 433 counter, it's just more difficult. I found screens from my 433 counter.

It was few years ago, and I would prefer slightly different options now. This tactic is not clear fluid counter. Mb it's a good option to change IW->AP(s) to connect CMs and AF by him. Conte used 343 in Chelsea, it was no CAM too, winger Pedro was a transit-role, as I remember. But Chelsea was focused on wings, because Alonso and Moyes played as laterals with 3CBs and had more attacking freedom  

Now I'm prefer to choose cautious mentality, but use more agressive roles, like BBM, DM and get stuck in TI.
There is a risk that the high tempo will be detrimental since there will only be 3 players in attack. I mean, your CMs have no time to join for fast attacks.

But as I said before, 433 is dominant formation. Even with lower LOE team pushed:

 

Again, you have no CAM, so your team need additional step in attacks:

That's why 433 is better for counter-press in higher positions, when you have 2 CMs in CAMs positions already, imo.

It was 13 AG in 30 games still, but squad was one of the best in the league:

 

I hope my thoughts have given you some insight. To resume, you can definitely create 433 in counter attacks. The main thing is to understand how to compensate empty CAM slot and prevent your lone striker from being isolated.
I see 433's strengths in being able to use flanks higher up. If you don't use at least one full back above then the question becomes why use 433 at all

Edited February 15 by Novem9

[caco4003]

hace 22 horas, Novem9 dijo:

Speaking for myself, if the priority is to play low block, I would prefer 4231dm. 

I'm sure it's possible to create 433 counter, it's just more difficult. I found screens from my 433 counter.

It was few years ago, and I would prefer slightly different options now. This tactic is not clear fluid counter. Mb it's a good option to change IW->AP(s) to connect CMs and AF by him. Conte used 343 in Chelsea, it was no CAM too, winger Pedro was a transit-role, as I remember. But Chelsea was focused on wings, because Alonso and Moyes played as laterals with 3CBs and had more attacking freedom  

Now I'm prefer to choose cautious mentality, but use more agressive roles, like BBM, DM and get stuck in TI.
There is a risk that the high tempo will be detrimental since there will only be 3 players in attack. I mean, your CMs have no time to join for fast attacks.

But as I said before, 433 is dominant formation. Even with lower LOE team pushed:

 

Again, you have no CAM, so your team need additional step in attacks:

That's why 433 is better for counter-press in higher positions, when you have 2 CMs in CAMs positions already, imo.

It was 13 AG in 30 games still, but squad was one of the best in the league:

 

I hope my thoughts have given you some insight. To resume, you can definitely create 433 in counter attacks. The main thing is to understand how to compensate empty CAM slot and prevent your lone striker from being isolated.
I see 433's strengths in being able to use flanks higher up. If you don't use at least one full back above then the question becomes why use 433 at all

in the end i took your advise and just change formation. Im now trying a 4-2-3-1 dm kinda based on what Mou did at spurs. Is there anything you feel i could change to make this work better? like role combinations or ti´s?

[HowzatFM]

On 31/01/2024 at 02:36, crusadertsar said:

Master of The Art of Football Pragmatism 

 

Seeing the latest news that Jose Mourinho has been sacked by AS Roma owners, has got me thinking. I don’t think “Pragmatic” managers are as much appreciated in football as they should be. Specifically in Jose’s case he was very much loved by Roma fans because he managed to achieve some pretty great things (winning Europa Conference title in 2022 and becoming runner-up for Europa League in 2023) with a club which previously was going through the biggest slump in its long history. Sure they have had less than great results in Serie A this season (sitting in 8th position as of writing this) but then one must surely take into account that Italian Serie A has been among the most competitive European football leagues with 4 different clubs winning the title in as many years. 

And yet Mourinho’s Roma has achieved some pretty interesting statistics such as being amongst the teams with least league goals conceded. Unfortunately, also in his 96 games with AS Roma Mourinho’s team has also become the Roma side with the least points per game ratio (1.61). This just shows what kind of coach Mourinho has always been. Not one who is overly reckless or aggressive in his tactics or one who is too concerned with style. In fact he has always been a very pragmatic manager whose only concern is winning each game (and one goal difference is usually all it takes) and not to create a flashy show. Even the latest European disappointment where Roma came up short in Europa Final was a match that hinged on a single goal! Roma were one penalty goal away from walking away as victors. But that is the fickle nature of football and sports in general. I just wish that club owners were less fickle sometimes. 

Where am I going with this you may ask? I guess I wanted to use an example of one pragmatic manager to highlight another Master of The Art of Football Pragmatism. Ernesto Valverde whose management of Athletic Bilbao has been stellar to say the least. The Basque manager has always been very consistent over the last two seasons with Athletic Club. But again due to the nature (or lack of style of you will) of football that he has his team playing he has not been getting the attention and praise that he deserves. It’s also interesting in the context of FM24 because I think it’s a tactical system that can be translated into the game rather well. Especially in this year’s version of FM which had a lot attention given to Positional Play. Athletic is not a side that plays flashy possession football like Man City or Barcelona but instead implements an interesting pragmatic style that blends directness with smart role rotations and gives much-needed purpose to possession. Even more interestingly, Valverde’s tactics change from game to game (as is the case with most pragmatic managers) to adapt to the opposition. Even his often-used 4-2-3-1 formation is a hybrid one that plays differently in possession and looks more like a 433 during attack. 

Ernesto Valverde - The perfect image of managerial intensity. 

 

Valverde’s tactical flexibility and willingness to adjust the way his team plays against each opponent is only one side of Football Pragmatism. At Athletic Club this is reflected in how he has his side play with “controlled directness”. Despite using the same 4-2-3-1 for most matches, the team will play very differently depending on the opponent. They tend to take a more possession-dominant approach and try to control the match when faced with weaker opponent who sit back and defend more. On the other hand Athletic Club switch to a more defensive/direct strategy against a superior possession-hungry team like Barcelona. A perfect example was the way Bilbao dismantled the Catalan side during last week’s Copa Del Ray Quarter Finals. 

The other side of pragmatism, and what made Valverde so successful not just at Bilbao but at other clubs like Olympiacos, is the manager’s ability to work with and get the best out of limited personnel. At Olympiakos it was making a club from a lower level league competitive in the Champions League. While at Athletic Club this is due to their famous policy to only using players from the Basque country. Furthermore, Ernesto likes to use mostly the same First XI at Athletic Club. Within his smart and flexible tactic, they have been thriving. 

Ernesto Valverde’s pragmatism is a perfect fit at Athletic Bilbao. It seems like a match made in heaven and it is. Valverde’s reserved and balanced approach to football as well as his ability to get the best results from rather limited resources is what led him to manage in Bilbao on 4 occasions now. And with him at the helm the club has been reaching Continental football qualification spots more consistently than ever before.

Defend Like A 4-4-2

 

Out of possession Athletic Club tend to defend in a compact 4-4-2 midblock. Here you have wingers dropping back and the attacking midfielder pushing up alongside the striker. The two banks of four has historically been one of the most reliable defensive strategies. Not only does it provide coverage across the whole width of the pitch but is also very centrally compact (especially with the “play narrow” instruction). Additionally, Athletic Club is perfectly suited to this formation because most of their wide attacking players possess high work rate attributes (at least 14 or more). The 4-4-2 shape allows Athletic Bilbao to have key moments of ball control (in midfield) even in matches where they are not expected to dominate overall possession. It is a perfect basis for fluid counter-attacking. So even if the opponent has more of the ball, it is where they have it that matters more. Athletic Bilbao can win if their opponent cannot create anything centrally and is rather restricted to trying low-percent chances from the wings (that Copa Del Ray game against Barcelona being the perfect example). By tempting the opponents to send the ball out wide, Bilbao’s hard-working wide players can then close them down against the touchline. While Bilbao does not press high, they do tend to win the ball back in advanced wide areas. 

The Fast Transition Phase

 

Winning the ball high up the field is one thing, but it is of no use if such advanced turnovers don’t lead to quality chances created during transition phase. Bilbao’s 4-4-2 defensive shape acts as an important springboard which makes Valverde’s Basque side so dangerous in attacking transitions. Basically as soon as Bilbao lose possession, their wingers run forward through the channels between the opposition fullback and the centreback. In turn, the central striker attempts to run in behind the defence. At the same time, the attacking midfielder (usually the club icon Munian) looks to find pockets of space between the lines to receive the ball. Munian’s off the ball, quickness, passing and vision are key here. For as soon as he gets on the ball, at least three attacking outlets, via the striker and the two wingers, become open as his passing options. The speed and, even more importantly, off the ball movement ability of these attackers, is what makes the tactic so dangerous during the transition phase. Their movement also helps in dragging the defenders apart and create more open spaces for Bibao players to exploit.

Bilbao During Possession

 

Although Athletic Club’s formation is usually a type of 4-2-3-1 on paper, the team essentially turns into a 4-3-3 while in possession. When playing against inferior or equal strength sides, Bilbao tend to dominate possession. But it’s not all about higher possession numbers. What allows them to break down even the most staunch defensive sides is the sweet combination of attacking movements and wingplay afforded by their hybrid shape. The strength of Valverde’s tactic is really in creating and exploiting space smartly through both wide and half-space channel movements. The two midfielders (the AMC and right DM Volante) are both instrumental in this. These two attack-focused midfielders are granted the most positional freedom, to push forward, and generally roam around and pop up in areas where they are least expected. 

 

In an above video, you can clearly see how Bilbao can rapidly create an overload on one flank while at the same time flooding the opposition box with bodies to finish off any resulting chances. The RCM (or DM really because Bilbao’s midfielders tend to sit rather deep) Oihan Sancet is also very capable of exploiting the gaps that appear due to his good off the ball ability and acceleration. The combination of advanced and deep runners is utilized very well in Bilbao’s formation.

Thanks to the positional play rotation changes in FM24, the movements of AMC, SV are much more intelligent and complimentary. As the Segundo Volante makes his late forward run, the AMC will move aside to open a channel. This behavior will free up SV to push up alongside AMC and essentially become a second number 10 role. Because of this Bilbao’s hybrid 4-3-3 (or 4-1-4-1 to be more precise) in possession and attack can be recreated in the game. 

The two fullbacks are encourages to run forward (both have “gets forward” trait in the game) but they usually do this via late timed runs rather than then aggressive overlapping movements. Instead you see the wingers acting as the main width generators by staying high and wide. They do so in a rather free, open fashion and are not constrained by typical winger behavior of only dribbling and crossing. Rather when the ball is on his side the near-side winger will hug the touchline while his far-side partner will move a little inwards to become better available to passes from the midfield. This only happens in the final third though. Such behavior is a bit more tricky to recreate in-game but perhaps an IW or WM roles could work. I believe that these two roles are better suited to represent such complex movement than either the standard Winger or Inside Forward (which might start cutting in too early). 

The central striker behavior is a bit harder to narrow down as we often see Inaki Williams (who is often the main striker) drifting wide or even dropping deep. I think either a simple Pressing Forward (A) or perhaps DLF (A) with added roam more instruction would be a good way to represent such movements. The reason we see the natural winger Inaki Williams selected as the primary striker is probably due to his key attribute strengths – Acceleration, Pace and Workrate which would indeed make him into a great Pressing Forward. 

 

As you can see in the set-up of roles and instructions, Bilbao’s attack is focused through the centre of the pitch (due to the concentration of attack duties there) while the wings provide support and work in tandem with fullbacks to create overloads and defend wide. This set-up embodies the “controlled directness” of Valverde’s tactic while staying away from pure Route One “cross and hope for the best” football. When the team is a heavy favourite and the opposition is expected to sit back in a parked bus then adding work into box, slowing down tempo and making passing shorter would be more suited. These instructions would aid in keeping possession away from opposition defenders (who are trying to waste time anyway) as well as generate more chances through carefully working the ball into final third. Some of the roles or duties could also be altered to better control possession. Switching SV from Attack to Support duty for one, or giving the front striker a supporting role. 

At the end of the day, to be a good pragmatic Defence-First manager in the vein of Mourinho and Valverde one must not shy away from changing the changing the game plan. It’s rather amazing how a simple 4-2-3-1 can be so flexible so as to play direct forward-moving football in one match and the more patient controlled possession in another. All with a simple change in a few roles and instructions. 

This is great! Have you played much and had good results with it?

[Novem9]

1 час назад, caco4003 сказал:

in the end i took your advise and just change formation. Im now trying a 4-2-3-1 dm kinda based on what Mou did at spurs. Is there anything you feel i could change to make this work better? like role combinations or ti´s?

I don't really want to give advice for one reason. I always try to use as few TI as possible. Therefore, if I start now, it will no longer be your tactic, but mine  I would advise using those instructions that are really important. basis of your idea. Avoid duplicating TI (regroup + low block is passive style, a lot of freedom for opposite team).

Your squad is really good. This will give you some creative freedom.

A few general thoughts outside of command instructions:

• AP in CAM slot could be unpredictable (roaming from position). AM(s) your alternative choice as 'architect', the role which always in place was planned.
• IF is pretty isolate role, 'pernament chances searcher'. Your wings could be focused on teamwork more. Wingers are pretty good and universal by functions in FM24  
• HB + BWM are very specific combination. Watch them, sometimes the simplest solution (DM-d + Vol-s or someting like this) is the best option.
• I didn't fully understand your tactical idea. You pressing in a low block and your only forward is the friendliest support role ever. 
• I like to create replicas of real-life tactics. However, when choosing between practicality (how it works in FM) and exact match (how I interpret real-life tactics) I always lean towards the first. 
• I don't remember what this tactic looked like IRL. However, it all ended with Jose's dismissal. Conclusions 

Friendly matches are the best way to see your tactics in practice, and see a list of changes. The main thing is to understand what you actually want. Low blocking implies counter play in space, are all your instructions and roles consistent with this idea?

[crusadertsar]

17 hours ago, HowzatFM said:

This is great! Have you played much and had good results with it?

Yes! In fact it's the tactic that ensured my continued survival at Real Sociedad. Managed to get Champions League place by finishing 4th in league last season. Starting my 5th season (2027-2028) with only this tactic and it's very good so far. I did make a few minimal adjustments I will have to share on here. 

Edited February 17 by crusadertsar

[Sinbad7104]

On 31/01/2024 at 02:36, crusadertsar said:

Master of The Art of Football Pragmatism 

 

Seeing the latest news that Jose Mourinho has been sacked by AS Roma owners, has got me thinking. I don’t think “Pragmatic” managers are as much appreciated in football as they should be. Specifically in Jose’s case he was very much loved by Roma fans because he managed to achieve some pretty great things (winning Europa Conference title in 2022 and becoming runner-up for Europa League in 2023) with a club which previously was going through the biggest slump in its long history. Sure they have had less than great results in Serie A this season (sitting in 8th position as of writing this) but then one must surely take into account that Italian Serie A has been among the most competitive European football leagues with 4 different clubs winning the title in as many years. 

And yet Mourinho’s Roma has achieved some pretty interesting statistics such as being amongst the teams with least league goals conceded. Unfortunately, also in his 96 games with AS Roma Mourinho’s team has also become the Roma side with the least points per game ratio (1.61). This just shows what kind of coach Mourinho has always been. Not one who is overly reckless or aggressive in his tactics or one who is too concerned with style. In fact he has always been a very pragmatic manager whose only concern is winning each game (and one goal difference is usually all it takes) and not to create a flashy show. Even the latest European disappointment where Roma came up short in Europa Final was a match that hinged on a single goal! Roma were one penalty goal away from walking away as victors. But that is the fickle nature of football and sports in general. I just wish that club owners were less fickle sometimes. 

Where am I going with this you may ask? I guess I wanted to use an example of one pragmatic manager to highlight another Master of The Art of Football Pragmatism. Ernesto Valverde whose management of Athletic Bilbao has been stellar to say the least. The Basque manager has always been very consistent over the last two seasons with Athletic Club. But again due to the nature (or lack of style of you will) of football that he has his team playing he has not been getting the attention and praise that he deserves. It’s also interesting in the context of FM24 because I think it’s a tactical system that can be translated into the game rather well. Especially in this year’s version of FM which had a lot attention given to Positional Play. Athletic is not a side that plays flashy possession football like Man City or Barcelona but instead implements an interesting pragmatic style that blends directness with smart role rotations and gives much-needed purpose to possession. Even more interestingly, Valverde’s tactics change from game to game (as is the case with most pragmatic managers) to adapt to the opposition. Even his often-used 4-2-3-1 formation is a hybrid one that plays differently in possession and looks more like a 433 during attack. 

Ernesto Valverde - The perfect image of managerial intensity. 

 

Valverde’s tactical flexibility and willingness to adjust the way his team plays against each opponent is only one side of Football Pragmatism. At Athletic Club this is reflected in how he has his side play with “controlled directness”. Despite using the same 4-2-3-1 for most matches, the team will play very differently depending on the opponent. They tend to take a more possession-dominant approach and try to control the match when faced with weaker opponent who sit back and defend more. On the other hand Athletic Club switch to a more defensive/direct strategy against a superior possession-hungry team like Barcelona. A perfect example was the way Bilbao dismantled the Catalan side during last week’s Copa Del Ray Quarter Finals. 

The other side of pragmatism, and what made Valverde so successful not just at Bilbao but at other clubs like Olympiacos, is the manager’s ability to work with and get the best out of limited personnel. At Olympiakos it was making a club from a lower level league competitive in the Champions League. While at Athletic Club this is due to their famous policy to only using players from the Basque country. Furthermore, Ernesto likes to use mostly the same First XI at Athletic Club. Within his smart and flexible tactic, they have been thriving. 

Ernesto Valverde’s pragmatism is a perfect fit at Athletic Bilbao. It seems like a match made in heaven and it is. Valverde’s reserved and balanced approach to football as well as his ability to get the best results from rather limited resources is what led him to manage in Bilbao on 4 occasions now. And with him at the helm the club has been reaching Continental football qualification spots more consistently than ever before.

Defend Like A 4-4-2

 

Out of possession Athletic Club tend to defend in a compact 4-4-2 midblock. Here you have wingers dropping back and the attacking midfielder pushing up alongside the striker. The two banks of four has historically been one of the most reliable defensive strategies. Not only does it provide coverage across the whole width of the pitch but is also very centrally compact (especially with the “play narrow” instruction). Additionally, Athletic Club is perfectly suited to this formation because most of their wide attacking players possess high work rate attributes (at least 14 or more). The 4-4-2 shape allows Athletic Bilbao to have key moments of ball control (in midfield) even in matches where they are not expected to dominate overall possession. It is a perfect basis for fluid counter-attacking. So even if the opponent has more of the ball, it is where they have it that matters more. Athletic Bilbao can win if their opponent cannot create anything centrally and is rather restricted to trying low-percent chances from the wings (that Copa Del Ray game against Barcelona being the perfect example). By tempting the opponents to send the ball out wide, Bilbao’s hard-working wide players can then close them down against the touchline. While Bilbao does not press high, they do tend to win the ball back in advanced wide areas. 

The Fast Transition Phase

 

Winning the ball high up the field is one thing, but it is of no use if such advanced turnovers don’t lead to quality chances created during transition phase. Bilbao’s 4-4-2 defensive shape acts as an important springboard which makes Valverde’s Basque side so dangerous in attacking transitions. Basically as soon as Bilbao lose possession, their wingers run forward through the channels between the opposition fullback and the centreback. In turn, the central striker attempts to run in behind the defence. At the same time, the attacking midfielder (usually the club icon Munian) looks to find pockets of space between the lines to receive the ball. Munian’s off the ball, quickness, passing and vision are key here. For as soon as he gets on the ball, at least three attacking outlets, via the striker and the two wingers, become open as his passing options. The speed and, even more importantly, off the ball movement ability of these attackers, is what makes the tactic so dangerous during the transition phase. Their movement also helps in dragging the defenders apart and create more open spaces for Bibao players to exploit.

Bilbao During Possession

 

Although Athletic Club’s formation is usually a type of 4-2-3-1 on paper, the team essentially turns into a 4-3-3 while in possession. When playing against inferior or equal strength sides, Bilbao tend to dominate possession. But it’s not all about higher possession numbers. What allows them to break down even the most staunch defensive sides is the sweet combination of attacking movements and wingplay afforded by their hybrid shape. The strength of Valverde’s tactic is really in creating and exploiting space smartly through both wide and half-space channel movements. The two midfielders (the AMC and right DM Volante) are both instrumental in this. These two attack-focused midfielders are granted the most positional freedom, to push forward, and generally roam around and pop up in areas where they are least expected. 

 

In an above video, you can clearly see how Bilbao can rapidly create an overload on one flank while at the same time flooding the opposition box with bodies to finish off any resulting chances. The RCM (or DM really because Bilbao’s midfielders tend to sit rather deep) Oihan Sancet is also very capable of exploiting the gaps that appear due to his good off the ball ability and acceleration. The combination of advanced and deep runners is utilized very well in Bilbao’s formation.

Thanks to the positional play rotation changes in FM24, the movements of AMC, SV are much more intelligent and complimentary. As the Segundo Volante makes his late forward run, the AMC will move aside to open a channel. This behavior will free up SV to push up alongside AMC and essentially become a second number 10 role. Because of this Bilbao’s hybrid 4-3-3 (or 4-1-4-1 to be more precise) in possession and attack can be recreated in the game. 

The two fullbacks are encourages to run forward (both have “gets forward” trait in the game) but they usually do this via late timed runs rather than then aggressive overlapping movements. Instead you see the wingers acting as the main width generators by staying high and wide. They do so in a rather free, open fashion and are not constrained by typical winger behavior of only dribbling and crossing. Rather when the ball is on his side the near-side winger will hug the touchline while his far-side partner will move a little inwards to become better available to passes from the midfield. This only happens in the final third though. Such behavior is a bit more tricky to recreate in-game but perhaps an IW or WM roles could work. I believe that these two roles are better suited to represent such complex movement than either the standard Winger or Inside Forward (which might start cutting in too early). 

The central striker behavior is a bit harder to narrow down as we often see Inaki Williams (who is often the main striker) drifting wide or even dropping deep. I think either a simple Pressing Forward (A) or perhaps DLF (A) with added roam more instruction would be a good way to represent such movements. The reason we see the natural winger Inaki Williams selected as the primary striker is probably due to his key attribute strengths – Acceleration, Pace and Workrate which would indeed make him into a great Pressing Forward. 

 

As you can see in the set-up of roles and instructions, Bilbao’s attack is focused through the centre of the pitch (due to the concentration of attack duties there) while the wings provide support and work in tandem with fullbacks to create overloads and defend wide. This set-up embodies the “controlled directness” of Valverde’s tactic while staying away from pure Route One “cross and hope for the best” football. When the team is a heavy favourite and the opposition is expected to sit back in a parked bus then adding work into box, slowing down tempo and making passing shorter would be more suited. These instructions would aid in keeping possession away from opposition defenders (who are trying to waste time anyway) as well as generate more chances through carefully working the ball into final third. Some of the roles or duties could also be altered to better control possession. Switching SV from Attack to Support duty for one, or giving the front striker a supporting role. 

At the end of the day, to be a good pragmatic Defence-First manager in the vein of Mourinho and Valverde one must not shy away from changing the changing the game plan. It’s rather amazing how a simple 4-2-3-1 can be so flexible so as to play direct forward-moving football in one match and the more patient controlled possession in another. All with a simple change in a few roles and instructions. 

Must of missed this when i had a little break from FM (Save went stale and weren't feeling it)  but its just what i need to bring something fresh back to my save with Nice.

Who i think in real life have only scored 22 goals in about 22 games and currently have the best defensive only conceding 15 but currently sit 2nd.

Is there any player instructions involved? i know you usual mention but weren't sure if you was going to go into further detail in future about you using this.

 

Thanks 

[Duracellio]

Em 31/01/2024 em 02:36, crusadertsar disse:

Master of The Art of Football Pragmatism 

 

Seeing the latest news that Jose Mourinho has been sacked by AS Roma owners, has got me thinking. I don’t think “Pragmatic” managers are as much appreciated in football as they should be. Specifically in Jose’s case he was very much loved by Roma fans because he managed to achieve some pretty great things (winning Europa Conference title in 2022 and becoming runner-up for Europa League in 2023) with a club which previously was going through the biggest slump in its long history. Sure they have had less than great results in Serie A this season (sitting in 8th position as of writing this) but then one must surely take into account that Italian Serie A has been among the most competitive European football leagues with 4 different clubs winning the title in as many years. 

And yet Mourinho’s Roma has achieved some pretty interesting statistics such as being amongst the teams with least league goals conceded. Unfortunately, also in his 96 games with AS Roma Mourinho’s team has also become the Roma side with the least points per game ratio (1.61). This just shows what kind of coach Mourinho has always been. Not one who is overly reckless or aggressive in his tactics or one who is too concerned with style. In fact he has always been a very pragmatic manager whose only concern is winning each game (and one goal difference is usually all it takes) and not to create a flashy show. Even the latest European disappointment where Roma came up short in Europa Final was a match that hinged on a single goal! Roma were one penalty goal away from walking away as victors. But that is the fickle nature of football and sports in general. I just wish that club owners were less fickle sometimes. 

Where am I going with this you may ask? I guess I wanted to use an example of one pragmatic manager to highlight another Master of The Art of Football Pragmatism. Ernesto Valverde whose management of Athletic Bilbao has been stellar to say the least. The Basque manager has always been very consistent over the last two seasons with Athletic Club. But again due to the nature (or lack of style of you will) of football that he has his team playing he has not been getting the attention and praise that he deserves. It’s also interesting in the context of FM24 because I think it’s a tactical system that can be translated into the game rather well. Especially in this year’s version of FM which had a lot attention given to Positional Play. Athletic is not a side that plays flashy possession football like Man City or Barcelona but instead implements an interesting pragmatic style that blends directness with smart role rotations and gives much-needed purpose to possession. Even more interestingly, Valverde’s tactics change from game to game (as is the case with most pragmatic managers) to adapt to the opposition. Even his often-used 4-2-3-1 formation is a hybrid one that plays differently in possession and looks more like a 433 during attack. 

Ernesto Valverde - The perfect image of managerial intensity. 

 

Valverde’s tactical flexibility and willingness to adjust the way his team plays against each opponent is only one side of Football Pragmatism. At Athletic Club this is reflected in how he has his side play with “controlled directness”. Despite using the same 4-2-3-1 for most matches, the team will play very differently depending on the opponent. They tend to take a more possession-dominant approach and try to control the match when faced with weaker opponent who sit back and defend more. On the other hand Athletic Club switch to a more defensive/direct strategy against a superior possession-hungry team like Barcelona. A perfect example was the way Bilbao dismantled the Catalan side during last week’s Copa Del Ray Quarter Finals. 

The other side of pragmatism, and what made Valverde so successful not just at Bilbao but at other clubs like Olympiacos, is the manager’s ability to work with and get the best out of limited personnel. At Olympiakos it was making a club from a lower level league competitive in the Champions League. While at Athletic Club this is due to their famous policy to only using players from the Basque country. Furthermore, Ernesto likes to use mostly the same First XI at Athletic Club. Within his smart and flexible tactic, they have been thriving. 

Ernesto Valverde’s pragmatism is a perfect fit at Athletic Bilbao. It seems like a match made in heaven and it is. Valverde’s reserved and balanced approach to football as well as his ability to get the best results from rather limited resources is what led him to manage in Bilbao on 4 occasions now. And with him at the helm the club has been reaching Continental football qualification spots more consistently than ever before.

Defend Like A 4-4-2

 

Out of possession Athletic Club tend to defend in a compact 4-4-2 midblock. Here you have wingers dropping back and the attacking midfielder pushing up alongside the striker. The two banks of four has historically been one of the most reliable defensive strategies. Not only does it provide coverage across the whole width of the pitch but is also very centrally compact (especially with the “play narrow” instruction). Additionally, Athletic Club is perfectly suited to this formation because most of their wide attacking players possess high work rate attributes (at least 14 or more). The 4-4-2 shape allows Athletic Bilbao to have key moments of ball control (in midfield) even in matches where they are not expected to dominate overall possession. It is a perfect basis for fluid counter-attacking. So even if the opponent has more of the ball, it is where they have it that matters more. Athletic Bilbao can win if their opponent cannot create anything centrally and is rather restricted to trying low-percent chances from the wings (that Copa Del Ray game against Barcelona being the perfect example). By tempting the opponents to send the ball out wide, Bilbao’s hard-working wide players can then close them down against the touchline. While Bilbao does not press high, they do tend to win the ball back in advanced wide areas. 

The Fast Transition Phase

 

Winning the ball high up the field is one thing, but it is of no use if such advanced turnovers don’t lead to quality chances created during transition phase. Bilbao’s 4-4-2 defensive shape acts as an important springboard which makes Valverde’s Basque side so dangerous in attacking transitions. Basically as soon as Bilbao lose possession, their wingers run forward through the channels between the opposition fullback and the centreback. In turn, the central striker attempts to run in behind the defence. At the same time, the attacking midfielder (usually the club icon Munian) looks to find pockets of space between the lines to receive the ball. Munian’s off the ball, quickness, passing and vision are key here. For as soon as he gets on the ball, at least three attacking outlets, via the striker and the two wingers, become open as his passing options. The speed and, even more importantly, off the ball movement ability of these attackers, is what makes the tactic so dangerous during the transition phase. Their movement also helps in dragging the defenders apart and create more open spaces for Bibao players to exploit.

Bilbao During Possession

 

Although Athletic Club’s formation is usually a type of 4-2-3-1 on paper, the team essentially turns into a 4-3-3 while in possession. When playing against inferior or equal strength sides, Bilbao tend to dominate possession. But it’s not all about higher possession numbers. What allows them to break down even the most staunch defensive sides is the sweet combination of attacking movements and wingplay afforded by their hybrid shape. The strength of Valverde’s tactic is really in creating and exploiting space smartly through both wide and half-space channel movements. The two midfielders (the AMC and right DM Volante) are both instrumental in this. These two attack-focused midfielders are granted the most positional freedom, to push forward, and generally roam around and pop up in areas where they are least expected. 

 

In an above video, you can clearly see how Bilbao can rapidly create an overload on one flank while at the same time flooding the opposition box with bodies to finish off any resulting chances. The RCM (or DM really because Bilbao’s midfielders tend to sit rather deep) Oihan Sancet is also very capable of exploiting the gaps that appear due to his good off the ball ability and acceleration. The combination of advanced and deep runners is utilized very well in Bilbao’s formation.

Thanks to the positional play rotation changes in FM24, the movements of AMC, SV are much more intelligent and complimentary. As the Segundo Volante makes his late forward run, the AMC will move aside to open a channel. This behavior will free up SV to push up alongside AMC and essentially become a second number 10 role. Because of this Bilbao’s hybrid 4-3-3 (or 4-1-4-1 to be more precise) in possession and attack can be recreated in the game. 

The two fullbacks are encourages to run forward (both have “gets forward” trait in the game) but they usually do this via late timed runs rather than then aggressive overlapping movements. Instead you see the wingers acting as the main width generators by staying high and wide. They do so in a rather free, open fashion and are not constrained by typical winger behavior of only dribbling and crossing. Rather when the ball is on his side the near-side winger will hug the touchline while his far-side partner will move a little inwards to become better available to passes from the midfield. This only happens in the final third though. Such behavior is a bit more tricky to recreate in-game but perhaps an IW or WM roles could work. I believe that these two roles are better suited to represent such complex movement than either the standard Winger or Inside Forward (which might start cutting in too early). 

The central striker behavior is a bit harder to narrow down as we often see Inaki Williams (who is often the main striker) drifting wide or even dropping deep. I think either a simple Pressing Forward (A) or perhaps DLF (A) with added roam more instruction would be a good way to represent such movements. The reason we see the natural winger Inaki Williams selected as the primary striker is probably due to his key attribute strengths – Acceleration, Pace and Workrate which would indeed make him into a great Pressing Forward. 

 

As you can see in the set-up of roles and instructions, Bilbao’s attack is focused through the centre of the pitch (due to the concentration of attack duties there) while the wings provide support and work in tandem with fullbacks to create overloads and defend wide. This set-up embodies the “controlled directness” of Valverde’s tactic while staying away from pure Route One “cross and hope for the best” football. When the team is a heavy favourite and the opposition is expected to sit back in a parked bus then adding work into box, slowing down tempo and making passing shorter would be more suited. These instructions would aid in keeping possession away from opposition defenders (who are trying to waste time anyway) as well as generate more chances through carefully working the ball into final third. Some of the roles or duties could also be altered to better control possession. Switching SV from Attack to Support duty for one, or giving the front striker a supporting role. 

At the end of the day, to be a good pragmatic Defence-First manager in the vein of Mourinho and Valverde one must not shy away from changing the changing the game plan. It’s rather amazing how a simple 4-2-3-1 can be so flexible so as to play direct forward-moving football in one match and the more patient controlled possession in another. All with a simple change in a few roles and instructions. 

I really enjoyed reading this article, has always you are in line with my thoughts about playing FM in a "realistic" way.

Has I was reading the post, some questions poped in my mind about 3 roles. I would like to know a bit more in depth about the idea behind those specific roles instead of another ones.

BWM: Why the BWM? I found myself questioning the chain of thought that led you to this role because if the idea is to ensure a safe mid block, isn't a BWM a bad choice for that matter? As he is way too agressive without the ball, therefore disrupting the lines when you are defending? I would have thought a DM (D) or a build up role like a DLP, on games your opponent won't press much in your third, would be a better choice to maintain that mid 4/5 compact and patient;

AP(A): I think I understand the idea behind the chosen role but would like to make sure. Did you went for the AP instead of, for example an AM, because the AP can ocupy more wide spaces and play more as a second striker in attack than the AM? And therefore make it easier for the SV to claim his space on his right side? I find the AP on attack doesn't defend has well has an AM on support, but at the same time he won't attack those spaces as well as the AP does so....it's a game of wins and losses here, I understand;

PF: Reading your description of the role that Iñaki plays on Athletic, I really thought you'd come up with a Complete forward, playing deep receiving the ball or stretching the defensive line, playing in the middle or down the flanks, a striker that can do it all during the game. What's your thought behind the PF?

Thank you.

PS: Btw, congratulations on that article you wrote on the Byline about how to better defend in FM24, pleasant reading, as always!

Edited February 18 by Duracellio

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, Duracellio said:

I really enjoyed reading this article, has always you are in line with my thoughts about playing FM in a "realistic" way.

Has I was reading the post, some questions poped in my mind about 3 roles. I would like to know a bit more in depth about the idea behind those specific roles instead of another ones.

BWM: Why the BWM? I found myself questioning the chain of thought that led you to this role because if the idea is to ensure a safe mid block, isn't a BWM a bad choice for that matter? As he is way too agressive without the ball, therefore disrupting the lines when you are defending? I would have thought a DM (D) or a build up role like a DLP, on games your opponent won't press much in your third, would be a better choice to maintain that mid 4/5 compact and patient;

AP(A): I think I understand the idea behind the chosen role but would like to make sure. Did you went for the AP instead of, for example an AM, because the AP can ocupy more wide spaces and play more as a second striker in attack than the AM? And therefore make it easier for the SV to claim his space on his right side? I find the AP on attack doesn't defend has well has an AM on support, but at the same time he won't attack those spaces as well as the AP does so....it's a game of wins and losses here, I understand;

PF: Reading your description of the role that Iñaki plays on Athletic, I really thought you'd come up with a Complete forward, playing deep receiving the ball or stretching the defensive line, playing in the middle or down the flanks, a striker that can do it all during the game. What's your thought behind the PF?

Thank you.

PS: Btw, congratulations on that article you wrote on the Byline about how to better defend in FM24, pleasant reading, as always!

Thanks for reading friend I actually made a few adjustments to the tactic since and some of those roles don't apply to it anymore. Some of those roles were the ones I was experimenting with at the time. It was an earlier, "less-refined" version of the tactic if you will. I intend to put out an update with my thought about the new tactic and roles. You will see it will make more sense and better defensive balance. BWM is great role in a counter-attacking tactic actually. Its a bit a risky true, but you need a bit of risk when absorbing pressure and hitting the opposition on the break. In fact DLP and BWM have been my favourite role pairing in a 4-2-3-1 since FM21 at least.  

[crusadertsar]

10 hours ago, Sinbad7104 said:

Must of missed this when i had a little break from FM (Save went stale and weren't feeling it)  but its just what i need to bring something fresh back to my save with Nice.

Who i think in real life have only scored 22 goals in about 22 games and currently have the best defensive only conceding 15 but currently sit 2nd.

Is there any player instructions involved? i know you usual mention but weren't sure if you was going to go into further detail in future about you using this.

 

Thanks 

There are no other instructions that I did not mention. And I intend to go into more detail about the updated tactic soon. It's become my primary tactic in this long-term Real Sociedad save. 

[kbogusz]

Interesting read as always @crusadertsar . It is very true what you wrote about satisfaction after winning with this particular tactical principles and how it feels much better than high-pressing attacking tactics. Played with 3-5-2 last year and its defensive solidity and counter-attacking potential certainly brought much joy. I'll try to implement the defence-first approach to the oldest club in Spain - Recreativo de Huelva to bring them from tier 3 to La Liga. I may not have the best players for this right now, but hey, building a team to suit your style is a process too! Waiting for your next update!

Also, what pitch dimensions you think would be the best to suit the Valverde inspirarted tactic? I'm assuming a long one, because it gives space for quick forwards when counter-attacking. While limited width would help our compactness in defence and make greater use of funneling the opposition to wide areas, where they don't have that much space. Correct me if i'm wrong please.

[crusadertsar]

4 hours ago, kbogusz said:

Interesting read as always @crusadertsar . It is very true what you wrote about satisfaction after winning with this particular tactical principles and how it feels much better than high-pressing attacking tactics. Played with 3-5-2 last year and its defensive solidity and counter-attacking potential certainly brought much joy. I'll try to implement the defence-first approach to the oldest club in Spain - Recreativo de Huelva to bring them from tier 3 to La Liga. I may not have the best players for this right now, but hey, building a team to suit your style is a process too! Waiting for your next update!

Also, what pitch dimensions you think would be the best to suit the Valverde inspirarted tactic? I'm assuming a long one, because it gives space for quick forwards when counter-attacking. While limited width would help our compactness in defence and make greater use of funneling the opposition to wide areas, where they don't have that much space. Correct me if i'm wrong please.

That sounds like a proper challenge  Good luck. And very good testing ground for counter-style system.

I actually didn't think about pitch dimensions but what you are saying is spot on. Long and narrow sounds like it would work better with the tactic.

Edited February 18 by crusadertsar

[Duracellio]

12 horas atrás, crusadertsar disse:

Thanks for reading friend I actually made a few adjustments to the tactic since and some of those roles don't apply to it anymore. Some of those roles were the ones I was experimenting with at the time. It was an earlier, "less-refined" version of the tactic if you will. I intend to put out an update with my thought about the new tactic and roles. You will see it will make more sense and better defensive balance. BWM is great role in a counter-attacking tactic actually. Its a bit a risky true, but you need a bit of risk when absorbing pressure and hitting the opposition on the break. In fact DLP and BWM have been my favourite role pairing in a 4-2-3-1 since FM21 at least.  

Awesome! Can't wait to read the update

Edited February 18 by Duracellio

[RDF Tactics]

So this post has been a major influence in the tactic I'm creating next. As someone who prefers the more aggressive off-the-ball systems, I made it a mission a have something more reserved (not completely defensive).

I first created a 4-4-1-1 but my team often created weird off-the-ball shapes. As can see in the image below, my RM (Pipa) is in their LWBs world. We sort of know why this happens, least against a 3 atb formation. But this in turn, even against back 4 systems, made our tackle % really bad. Despite being top, dominating games, fewest conceded and few shots against, I just could not ignore this when watching. Talking about winning in the way you set out to, this was just a big bug of mine.

After reading this post when initially creating the tactic, I was also reading some IRL analysis of mid blocks in a 442/4411 and really wanted this narrow 442 shape that guides play nicely out wide. In a unit and shifting across as a team. My guiding play into wider areas whilst keeping the central compact and narrow is what I badly wanted as well as my rest attack idea.

After trying out many different roles and instructions to eliminate this, it just wouldn't happen. I had a theory that the switch I had to make was making a narrow formation so I have switched to a 4-2-2-2 and things are looking a LOT better. We finally have that defensive shape I was looking for. Now we have someone that resembles more of the compact 442. With team shifting across as we guide play out wide.

We now have the highest tackles won ratio in the league! Our OPPDA is top as well (which isn't exactly measure high press in FM). Including a lovely 11-0

 

I do like that aspect of meticulously watching your defensive patterns. Initially, I started with an Anchor over BWM as well as no counter-press but had counter on. After a few games, I felt the Anchor was actually quite determinantal (in this system, not generally) as he would stay in his position not looking to create space in front of our defence - but it also meant he didn't shift over as well as the BWM which was important in gaining possession. Creating that numerical advantage out in wider areas. But counter-press has also been helpful in this system, especially if we lose possession in the central areas where we're looking to play *for now*. We couldn't regroup into our positions quickly or well enough as their in advanced positions (I guess). Still not sure whether get stuck in or not. So currently using it in away games as I feel we're a bit drop off'ish.

 

Sorry for the large screenshots and message but was just sharing as the post initially inspired creating this system

Edited February 19 by RDF Tactics

[crusadertsar]

Tribulations and Joys of Basque Club Management - Developing my Defence-First 4-4-1-1 Tactic 

I gotta say that trying to implement a strict Basque-only policy at Real Sociedad has been nothing if not a challenge. Part of that probably had to do with the fact that from the start of the game the club has not really been planned in this way. At the start of my save in 2023, some of the key players, such as primary striker and most wide players, were not Basque. So it took me nearly 5 seasons to find/develop suitable Basque replacements. All while trying to settle on the best possible "Defence-First" tactic for my collection of local stars. And in 2027 year in-game I'm starting to think that we have made some progress in both areas. I really like the balanced tactics that I am seeing on the pitch, and I like my Basque players even more. Especially the newgens! 

Although I have to say it hurt alot to have to pass on this beautiful newgen. Trully a reincarnation of Courtois! Particularly when I could have had him for under 3 million. But alas he is not Basque 

As a consolation prize (and mostly to make myself feel better) I ended up buying this young keeper from Pamplona (so far they have been my best source of young Basque newgens in case you were wondering).

Inigo does not have quite as good current ability (CA) as Hoyenhall but looks like his long-term potential might be much better. And most importantly he is very determined to improve. Determination still makes a big difference in how well (and fast) a youngster can reach his full potential. Therefore, I cannot wait to see what Inigo's profile will look like in another two years of getting 2nd Division playing experience with our B Team. 

So far, despite a few temptations and close calls, I am sticking to my guns and and focusing on Basque players. And honestly I have been lucky in more ways than one in getting some exceptional youth players in such a short time with the club. But more on that later. The only exception to the rule would be any non-Basques coming through my own "Cantera" academy. 

 

Defending as 4-4-1-1, Attacking as 4-2-3-1

The tactical objective still remains the same. To create an effective fluid 4-4-2 tactic that is more focused on passing the ball around and attacking through intelligent movement. NOT through stifling the opponent via incessant high pressing or booting the ball long to the attackers. Neither are we after a possession-heavy Tiki-Taka approach. Instead I'm looking for a more nuanced formation that uses 4-4-2 as a basis for defence but then attacks in a different shape (4-2-3-1) that is more conductive to maintaining ball control, creating overloads and following it up with fast attacking transitions. I'm hoping that this attacking shape can help us to better break down stubborn defensive sides (which I have been facing more and more due to increasing club reputation). Such hybrid formation is meant to fit with the strengths of Real Sociedad squad. At the start of the game it is not a very physical squad. And 4 years later it's still very much the case. On the other hand, we are lucky to possess some very clinical attackers (and some fast ones) as well as some very technical and mentally-strong midfielders. Even then, we won't be breaking down opposition with pure Pace and Strength but with Teamwork, hard Work and precise Technique and Passing. We might have less chances than the typical "balls-to-the-wall" Gegenpress side but we are sure to make the best of the ones we do have. It's all part of my Pragmatic "Defence-First" approach to FM - clinical precision and solid defence over brute force aggressive attack.  

So definitely it takes a special sort of tactic to suit this kind of style. It took quite a bit of tactical tweaking and watching many matches almost in full to arrive at the tactic you see now. Although I really wouldn't recommend tweaking tactics too much during the season. But I am a tactical tinkerer through and through and always enjoy that aspect of the game the most. Even if it causes a bad drop in form during the middle of the season (which almost cost me my job last season had we not qualified for Champions League due to a late surge in form and thanks to an earlier version of the following tactic). So without further ado, meet my current iteration of 4-4-1-1.

 

 

1. Advanced Forward - in a more direct fast-transition/counter tactic, you cannot go wrong with a "spearhead" role like AF. And I especially love the more technical spearheads. A player that can stay high up and run off the shoulder of opposition defenders. But not quite in the one-dimensional Poacher fashion. If you are lucky to get a more creative technical player as your Advance Forward then this role can really come into its own. 

Chechu is turning into a tremendous player for Real Sociedad and with loads more untapped potential. Hard to believe that I only bought him for measly 750 000 euros from Gijon. Because of his attributes I give him individual instruction to "dribble more" and "take more risks". 

 

2. Winger is another key role in my tactic. Here I like to slot my other little lethal attacker in the making and current crown jewel in this Basque squad. The main requirements for this role are tons of speed and good attacking instincts. Although technical skills like Crossing and Dribbling help out too, especially if you intend to play same-side-foot player here. I instruct the role to cut inside so if you slot a player with the opposite dominant foot to the side, it's probably even better. The intention is for the role to initially stretch the play on that side and create nice overload with the fullback but then in the final third to cut inside and finish off any chances not taken by our striker.

Despite his tender age Cristian Villanueva is starting to look like a one of the best young graduates of Real Sociedad's "Cantera". His pacey counter-attacking runs and timely goals is probably what helped me keep my job last season when every point mattered in the tight contest for the last remaining Champions League place. Right now he is unfortunately out for a few weeks with minor injury but I intend to keep him in this side in every game if possible. The only individual instruction is "cut inside" to make his behavior less predictable and to better take advantage of his goal-scoring prowess. Little side note: Those who are interested in doing youth academy saves you probably noticed what I am doing with the nickname  I put "Y25" as short for "Class of 2025 grad". I am bit crazy that way as I like to track how many of my future stars will come from a specific intake. It's little details that like that keep you playing the same save well past the first 4-5 seasons. 

 

3. AMC Position. The club veteran and captain Mikel Oyarzabal is probably the best player for the AMC role. Just a simple generic Advance Midfielder role and for a good reason. I intend it to be an important link-up role between attack and midfield. And for that reason I don't need anything fancy or complicated. Not that it's a simple role to fill. If anything it's one of the demanding specialist roles in this tactic. Besides the obvious technical requirements (he needs both above average passing and finishing ability), mental attributes are key here. While Oyarzabal is a sort of deep/creative striker, he is even more valuable for his good Workrate and Teamwork to drop deeper to pick up the ball and help out the midfield in the press. You cannot afford to have a fancy Trequartista floating around here.  I like the AMA (A) because it starts positioned deeper than any other AMC role (besides the AM on Support) and still be available to launch forward to support counters and generally act like a Shadow Striker given the right individual instruction. And that is exactly why I give Oyarzabal these instructions: "get further forward", "move into channels", "roam from position" and "take more risks". Think of him as my deep-lying Shadow Striker. 

Already at 396 appearances for the club! My main "one club man" for Real Sociedad. Not quite Xabi Prieto level yet (479 apps) but getting there.

4. The other wide midfielder role is arguably the other specialist role in the formation. Wide Midfielder is very important to how this tactic works. In fact, the reason that I went with 4-4-1-1 is because of this role. WM role is one of my all-favourite FM roles and it only exists in flat formation in the midfield strata. I could have went with 4-2-3-1 with an advanced playmaker or even inverted winger (and I even tested that specific iteration of the tactic) but it simply didn't offer the same solid defensive shape, nor the same kind of transition from flat four banks defence to quick transition in attack. Some say that 4-4-1-1 is a poor man's 4-2-3-1. If anything I believe the opposite 4-2-3-1 is a poor interpretation of 4-4-1-1 because while it offers very similar attacking shape (which is very easy to create with 4-4-1-1) it is very hard to create the same solid defensive positioning that a good old 4-4-1-1 offers. Even if you play both wide players on support. This was actually possible back in the FM2014 days but that was because back then we could play Defensive Wingers in AMLR strata. Amazing right!?

Man, I miss those days so much. Sure the tactic creator and the match engine realism got much better over the years but we lost a few things in the process. It still boggles me to this day why we lost this DW role variation since FM14. 

Anyway, going back to FM24 and WM. The kind of player that is perfect here is basically a Roaming Playmaker type or a creative Box-to-Box Midfielder if you will (which is exactly what RPM is if you look at the role under the hood). He needs to be an all-rounder in terms of his physical, mental and technical attributes. When looking for a perfect player you should first ask yourself, would I be comfortable sticking him in my midfield, or would he be a liability there? If he is good enough to play as BBM then he should be good enough to play the WM role. And if he can cross the ball and pass it accurately then you got yourself a great candidate, like my Mendez here.

Mendez possess most of the qualities I look for in a great WM: great Stamina, Workrate, Teamwork, Passing, Off The Ball, Decisions, Composure, Anticipation. And decent Tackling and Positioning as well. As an added bonus he is left-footed playing on the right wing. Meaning that he will naturally tuck in and play narrower. From this position he can combine rather well with both central AM and AF, or form passing triangles with DLP and the right FB. And most importantly, when defending in our flat two banks of four shape, the WM acts as another hardworking midfielder which gives us a numerical advantage when combined with BWM and DLP. The Wide Midfielder role, unlike the more advance wide attacker roles, is more aggressive in following, pressing and tackling opponents.

The only individual instructions I currently use are" "cut inside with the ball" and "sit narrower". I might add others as I see fit. I am especially debating about "get further forward" but I have to watch a few more games this season to see if its really necessary. The beauty of WM(S) role is just how customizable it is. So many individual instructions can be added to make it play just how you want. Or you could choose not to add any at all just allow the player's own attributes and traits to dictate how plays and makes the role his own. 

Final note is that my current best WM is however not destined for much more time with the team. Mendez is not Basque so I will be letting him go when his contract expires next summer (unless a buyer comes knocking before). Luckily I already have the "heir apparent" for the WM role training in our "Jong Real Sociedad" team.

The youngster still has quite a way to go in his long-term development. But hopefully with playing experience in Spain's 2nd Division (our B Team got promoted last season!) he will be closer to prime time in another year or so. 

5. The very important Double Pivot in midfield. No 4-4-1-1 (or 4-2-3-1 for that matter) can function without a solid double pivot. All attacks have to be built on a strong foundation of defence, support and creativity in central midfield. I would say those are the three primary function of all Double Pivots (and in that specific order). My two Central Midfielders need to defend their space well, offer support to the more attacking runners around them and at least one of the two CMs needs to be more creative to add a bit more flair and unpredictability to our midfield whether through the occasional through ball or pin-point pass towards the attackers. I am not exactly looking for the next Pirlo here but a hard-working Paul Scholes will do. DLP is an important element in our pivot because he contributes to the overload on the right flank. Together with the rather creative WM and the charging FB, the DLP is instrumental in attracting the opposition to that side while giving more space for our left Winger and AF to find and exploit on the left flank and centrally. "Overload" concept is something I have been working on since my earliest days playing FM and I feel like its working especially well in this particular 4-4-1-1. Could be the tactic, or maybe the players 

In fact I currently I have two very young candidates for this deep creative role competing in the B Team. The 16 year old model citizen Daniel Sanz:

Or the even younger but very driven 15 year old Gaizka Bilbao, a San Sebastien native and graduate of our own "Cantera" academy just this past summer. Seeing his attribute profile I felt no qualms about throwing him right into 2nd Division in his first season (skipping the u19 team almost entirely). He is just that good! And already showing it in competing against players twice his age. 

There is a good chance that I might be able to play both of them at the same time eventually (once Oyarzabal retires and the primary AMC spot opens up) but that's still quite a few years in the future and who knows how their development will go. That's the joy of youth development in FM24. 

Finally, to finish with the Double Pivot, a quick look at the other important side of it: Ball-Winning Midfielder. The true workhorse of the midfield duo. And who better embody this role than Real Sociedad's ever present Mikel Merino. He is definitely one of our most valuable player (you would not believe how many times I had to slap away those greedy Saudi clubs haha) and I could not ask for a better player for the BWM role. He might not be the best in the class for it but he is the best Basque in this role in 2028 and that is all that matters to me. 

Merino is Aggressive, Brave, Determined, good Teamplayer and an even better Hard Worker with good Stamina and Strength. He is also a very good Passer and above average Tackler. He has above average Jumping Reach. In other words, he fits the role of the ball-winner rather well. And a good pairing with a more creative Deep-Lying Playmaker. Win the ball quickly and pass it on to the more creative players and then join in the counter-attack if possible, "Hold Position" is the only individual instruction I set for this role. 

6. Ball-Playing Defender. I always like to have one in combination with a Sweeper Keeper. Even if I don't specifically instruct my players to "Play the Ball Out of Defence", I like to create a natural link between our keeper and defence. Because naturally the keeper will seek out our BPD (I even instruct him do so just to make sure). Then at the same time our Ball-Playing Defender has the added instruction to "dribble more" to bring the ball further forward towards the midfield. Our primary BPD is more than capable of doing this, even if he is getting a bit older and slower.

It's can be a rather risky strategy sometimes, but it's mostly beneficial because it minimizes on the number of times that we can lose the ball stupidly when the keeper just boots it long up the field to be intercepted by opposition midfielders. When we can progress the ball quickly via more technical and less direct route to our DLP there is a much better chance that we can hold on to it longer and actually do something dangerous with it.

 

7. Finally not much to say about the tactical instructions. I already mentioned all the individual instructions. The general team instructions I usually try to keep as minimal as needed to get my general tactical style across. So in this case I tried to included only the ones which would actually aid us in absorbing the opposition pressure during defending phase and to then transition fast into attacking phase. Most of this is conveyed through our choice of Team Mentality (Positive) and roles and duties (which I already mostly discussed). Furthermore, if you really like how this tactic looks then be sure to stay tuned for further updates coming to this thread. Or maybe if you just like to see more pics of newgens from our Real Sociedad's Cantera! I know you like those   And below this is the tactic download for those who want to test out the tactic. Word of caution: it is not meant to be a plug-and-win tactic as I really created it with my specific players in mind. But if you think your team has similar players to fit the roles then by all mean be my guest. And be sure to report back on your experience. Happy managing!  

 

TACTIC: DefenceFirst4-4-1-1.fmf

 

Edited February 20 by crusadertsar

[gabbfx]

Em 15/02/2024 em 18:22, Novem9 disse:

Speaking for myself, if the priority is to play low block, I would prefer 4231dm. 

I'm sure it's possible to create 433 counter, it's just more difficult. I found screens from my 433 counter.

It was few years ago, and I would prefer slightly different options now. This tactic is not clear fluid counter. Mb it's a good option to change IW->AP(s) to connect CMs and AF by him. Conte used 343 in Chelsea, it was no CAM too, winger Pedro was a transit-role, as I remember. But Chelsea was focused on wings, because Alonso and Moyes played as laterals with 3CBs and had more attacking freedom  

Now I'm prefer to choose cautious mentality, but use more agressive roles, like BBM, DM and get stuck in TI.
There is a risk that the high tempo will be detrimental since there will only be 3 players in attack. I mean, your CMs have no time to join for fast attacks.

But as I said before, 433 is dominant formation. Even with lower LOE team pushed:

 

Again, you have no CAM, so your team need additional step in attacks:

That's why 433 is better for counter-press in higher positions, when you have 2 CMs in CAMs positions already, imo.

It was 13 AG in 30 games still, but squad was one of the best in the league:

 

I hope my thoughts have given you some insight. To resume, you can definitely create 433 in counter attacks. The main thing is to understand how to compensate empty CAM slot and prevent your lone striker from being isolated.
I see 433's strengths in being able to use flanks higher up. If you don't use at least one full back above then the question becomes why use 433 at all

 

where can i download this tactic? its amazing